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Topic: To everything there is a season...
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Forever His
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Member # 25
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posted
LOL.... well BornAgain... ummm.... me thinks that the parents are not dumb... they know that the reason that you are doing these things is to get to know them because it seems pretty obvious that you like their daughter. But lets not let the tail wag the dog... the real issue for me is... what does it mean to honor your/her parents?
Melissa and I are not dating yet... we have been spending time... mostly online... getting to know one another well enough to determine "if" we would like to begin dating. I believe that we have reached that point.... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
I have come to admire her walk with God and how it has real fruit in her life. And to think that I almost didn't slow down for her... God has truly been good!!!!
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BORN AGAIN
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hello Forever His, you write quote:
Now if I were in that situation I would get to really know them and spend some time just doing stuff like inviting them on picnics etc. I would be very gracious, curtious and show God's love. I would be praying that God would give me favor in their sight and after a time I would ask them. Christian or not... they are still the parents. And.... I wouldn't rush... giving them a really good chance to get to know me. Then one day I would point out that their daughter and I had become very close and would it be alright with them if we began to date.
I'm probably the confused one here, but regarding the bolded phrase, what do you call what you and Melissa have done so far?
And assuming for a moment that you "have not been dating yet", don't you think that it would be wildly odd to ask, as it were, the parents out so many times for assorted picnics, walks by the lake, feed the pigeons, etcetera, and practically "dating the parents" to the point where they would be saying, 'uh, we have enjoyed the attention and all that and have not been so well dined and entertained, but, what is this all about"?
We are now in the second year of priming the parents, only to then, finally, have it be revealed that you are "not after them, after all" but after their daughter?
Nice guy or not, but say what? Perhaps you are a little too close to the Aurora Borealis or Northern Lights? ![[angel3]](graemlins/angel3.gif) or ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif)
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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Forever His
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As I further pondered this... funny isnt it... a guy who had something to hide might be opposed to such an act as asking her parents permission... interesting... guys who have nothing to hide would have no objections if you think it through.
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Forever His
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You ask a good question. Now if I were in that situation I would get to really know them and spend some time just doing stuff like inviting them on picnics etc. I would be very gracious, curtious and show God's love. I would be praying that God would give me favor in their sight and after a time I would ask them. Christian or not... they are still the parents. And.... I wouldn't rush... giving them a really good chance to get to know me. Then one day I would point out that their daughter and I had become very close and would it be alright with them if we bagan to date. As long as you haven't given them a reason why would they say no??? A nice guy is a nice guy christian or not...who wouldnt want their daughter to date a nice guy?
Now for me I think that God was very wise. You see He knows the strugles that are involved in "keeping" a marriage together. And.... if the parents are on board with the marriage... when times get tough they will give your spouce some advise about hanging in there... after all... the last thing that you would want them to tell her... see... we told you we didn't like this creep. Parents who liked you enough to give you their daughters hand will be there for you... when things get tough.
So what about if they are muslims. etc. who will never give any christian permission to marry their daughter? Well... in such cases... it is better to obey God... than to obey man. However... in such cases I would really be wanting to see God's providence and leading.... and... in every case... trust in the Lord with all of your heart and lean not on your own understanding... in all of your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths.
God Bless you ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
Les
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BORN AGAIN
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thank you, Forever His, for that interesting response. You made it sound good.
In a small comment, I could see a situation where the daughter had become a fervent Christian, but her parents were very worldly types of people who think that their daughter had gone "way-overboard with her religious stuff." Would such parents not think it a bit odd if you asked them that?
My small question thus might be, "does whether you ask or not depend on what kind of parents you are dealing with, or not?"
thanks, BORN AGAIN
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Forever His
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As the discussion further progressed I added these two replies....
.... as I arose this morning I found a burden on my heart. This topic is more important than I had originaly suspected or apreciated.... And... perhaps in general we have missed something. There may be some who may wonder if ForeverHis is narrow minded, or fanatical... or if he takes too many "ugly pills" .... heaven knows that we have too many who sit on the pews and point fingers at others.... many of these try and beat God's people into submission as if it were their "divine" calling. As a result... many have lost hope and given up because of people who do that. That breaks my heart.... So how do we discuss a topic like this that is so sensative and personal? One that at first glance would appear to be trying to take away "personal freedoms"....
One thing that is safe to say... we do not like giving up our " personal freedoms" and... sometimes we do not like giving them up to God.... lets be honest about that.... we really dont.... It is only a Divine "miracle" that any one of us is willing to give up our old way of life and take up God's cross and follow... yet Jesus said that we need to “deny self “ and take up our crosses and follow Him...
So... is God into "taking away" our personal freedom? It's funny... how is it that we have been so blind...we have been deceived... blinded... and this means me.... is this about loosing "personal freedoms" ??? this is soooo much bigger than that.... what does the scripture teach...Does He not want all of us... all that we are???? our will? our heart??? everything.... don't we sing song's like " I surrender all".... yet in my heart I know that I fall short of what I would like you to believe about me.... sometimes I even like to wear a mask that looks exactly like what I supose a christian to look like...
So back to the issue... is God into taking away our "personal freedoms" ??? For those of us who have know Him for awhile... we would say nothing is further away from the truth. But... to help us understand this issue I wish to ask another question.... does God ever take stuff away? The answer is a big resounding YES!!! However it needs to be qualified with... God never takes anything away... unless He has something better to give us.... But the real issue is... there is only one thing that God wants to take away from us... that is sin!!! period!!!!
But in our daily lives we often loose sight of God's objective... I know that I do...
So.... I have to ask myself... do I truly want to be happy? ... do I ??? or do I want to have "my own personal freedom" .... to do as I choose? The two do not always go together... ask Samson... he is a good example of someone who desired his own personal freedom.... So I have to ask myself this... do I reap what I sow? if that is true... then what do I want to reap?
Here is where we have been blinded... yes even me....We don't always see things the way that God does.... You see another way of saying " personal freedom" is... "personal freedom" is rebellion against God.... That's how God views it.... Lucifer has tried to promote this idea of "personal freedom leads to happiness".... is that really true???
From 3what I read the bible teaches that "total surrender" is harmony with God.... and that is where we often loose focus... I know I have...
And so we have to choose how we will live our lives... and there are only two choices... personal freedom... or.. total surrender. Sadly... Lucifer has deceived us into thinking that "personal freedom" is a reality apart from "total surrender" the Bible teaches that personal freedom is the result [the fruit] of "total surrender...
But!! There is some really good news... If we have messed up our past... there is complete forgiveness... we can have a new start... I like that!!! but there is also grace [power] so that we don't have to repeat the past... and the way to ensure a happy future has something to do will surrendering "everything" to God... "personal freedom" never leads to happines...
I really believe that....
to be continued.
and I mean it when I say... may God Bless each of you... especailly those who do not see this as I do... God loves you
Les
There are things in life that can be irritating.... and sometimes they don't have to be that big... who-ever invented speed bumps anyway? and why do they put so many in some places? Yet speed bumps are a fact of life... designed to slow people down who would otherwise drive through life too fast. Sometimes we view God as having put speedbumps in our lifes journey that to be honest... we may be a little annoyed at. One of those may be... honor thy parents...
When we look at the sermon on the mount it is really pretty amazing how Jesus looked at the 10 commandments... How many of us could have seen the depths of how it reached into every part of our daily life... and more importantly... into our hearts and minds. Who ever would have thought that murder begins with the most " trivial" matter of the heart... and I do mean "TRIVIAL" .... like if we are angry at our brother without cause we are in danger of judgement.. of course we like that He added "without cause" because we only get angry with a good reason... right??? Far be it from us to get mad without a "real good reason"... hmmmm... really now.... Does God not want us to live above that? I believe that He does... after all, I think that He wants us to be happy doesnt He... and.... you cant be happy... and mad at the same time.
Anyway... lets look at what He says next... whoever says Raca [ empty headed] shall be in danger of the council... but don't miss this... if we think in our heart and say ... you fool... you idiot.. you _____ [fill in the blank] . we are in danger of hellfire... WOW... how " trivial" we would consider that to be in the society that we live in... even laughable.... yet how seriously did Jesus view this matter... danger of hellfire is pretty serious.... yet we would laugh at this... How many have said this of the president of the United States? is there anyone here that has never thought of someone as being a fool... I have... is that love... No.... it's not.... and... that is what Jesus is adressing.... what Jesus wants us to understand is that when we meet someone like this... one whom we consider to be a fool.... what is our response when we see their issue.... seriously.... do we pull them down.... throw belitling or hurtful words at them??? or undermine them by questioning their motives? or do we lift them up? That's what Jesus wants us to see.... pushing them down puts us into judgment... why???? because it "truly" shows where our heart is... and if we dont repent... who knows where our attitude will lead us.... surely not to heaven...
He goes on to explain that adultery is also a "matter of the heart" just as is murder is. And do we take His council seriously... if your eye causes you to stumble... pluck it out? or your hand... then cut it off!! We consider this extreme because we have no intention of plucking out our eye... yet... do we make an attempt to "remove the problem" .... So... what is the problem??? Well perhaps we have become so focused upon externals that we have missed what Jesus was really saying... the problem is not a matter of the eye or the hand... but a matter of the heart.... Jesus wants to perform heart surgery on us... He wants us to have a new heart... but He cannot do that while we are afraid to give up our "personal freedoms" ... those ones that we "cling to" ... we are so afraid to let go.... because we are so used too trusting in ourselves... our wisdom... our wishes and "our" desires... how is it that we we are afraid to surrender...
So... what would Jesus say about honoring your parents if He were here today... Well... I think that He made Himself clear enough back when He was here.... it's a matter of ... where is your heart.... really.... where is your heart???? why would we not want our or her parents blessings??? that's the real issue.... are we so stuck with seeking our own "personal freedom" our own desires.... that we dont want His best?
Those who will truly find happines in this life are those who have learned that God puts speed bumps in our paths for a reason.... and one day... we will learn that they are not really speed bumps at all.... and I will let you determine what that means for yourself... I will give you a hint though.... it has something to do with Love... and "your" ... "future" happiness....
God Bless each of you
Les
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Forever His
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Hey Born Again great to seeya ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I have spent a fair amount of time on the site where I met Melissa. And I have been so blessed by being on their message boards. A little while back someone asked about " honoring " parents and how it might apply to those of us that are "single" and whether it might be important to ask "her" parents permission before dating/marriage etc.
there were "many" responses and all sorts of answers.... Including... that it was kinda an "old fashioned" idea. I thought that I would share my response here...
As I ponder this question again... it seems that God's standards have suddenly become.... " old fashioned" .... well... I guess that shouldnt be too much of a surprise... since God is kinda old
But seriously... What ever do I mean by " God's standards" .... well.... what ever happened to honor thy mother and father? Seriously... think about it. If there is a reason that the parents do not wish their daughter to marry someone... then would it not be a direct violation of the heart... and intent of God's Holy law which asks us to " honor " thy parents? After all in marriage the two become "ONE"... and honoring her parents as your own is honoring to God...
Honor your parents... would that not include their blessing upon whom you may marry? But it doesnt stop there... it says..... that our days "may" be long upon the earth... and that it might be well for you.... it is the first commandment with a promise. God knew way back then that married people live healthier... and longer. Perhap's that is why He wants you to be "hapily married" and one of the ways He helps to acomplish this is to use your/her parents wisdom and insight...
But there is greater reason that God wants us to honor our parents... so that He can bless us!!! You see... both our parents... and God... want us to have a hapy life. If the parent sees some reason that we should not marry their daugher then there is likely a good reason..example...perhaps you have only know each other 6 weeks or... maybe 6 months... and you just " have" to get married. Perhapsr it might be they are concerned because your "true love" hasn't held down a job for more than 6 months in the last 14 years and they want to see that he can suport their daughter... and more importantly... what is the issue behind why he can's keep a job??? They dont want their daughter marring someone who has serios issues that they are trying to hide...or perhaps it might be... they just sense something wrong and want you to wait.
It's not that you will never be able to marry this person... it's that when we honor our parents it allows time to work out and through things that we might have overlooked.... after all... did you ever hear the saying love is blind.... well... trust me... it is... and... your parents arent blind and God knew this... so this is a safe guard of heavenly origin to prevent us from entering into a relationship that would not be in our best interests.... or perhaps entering too soon.
Can I be honest... I am older than most here... when I met my wife Wendy I asked her parents blessing before I even began dating... I am so glad that I did... what a blessing that was... I will never regret doing that.
before I "begin" to date again I will not do so until I have the blessing of "her" parents... not because of ten hard cold words written on stone... but because God desires our happiness.... and one of the ways that He grants us that hapioness is... by honoring our parents.... how many marriages have turned out happy in the long haul when they have married against their parents wishes??? Honoring our parents is "one" of God's safeguards for "your" ultimate happiness.... do you really want to miss out on that ???
does that really sound... " old fashioned" ???
Seriously... what girl wouldnt want a guy who honored her parents by asking?
let each be convinced in his [her] own mind
God Bless you
Les
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Forever His
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Well we have arrived back after a wonderful 3 weeks. I am so convinced that I have found a "keeper". God has shown me some really cool things about Melissa and I now have little doubt left that she is the one for me.
I hope to drop back soon with more updates and perhaps Melissa will add a few more pictures of our adventures together. The kids had a wonderful time and they really like Melissa. We did many fun things and had a great time... The time is aproaching that it will be very difficult to be apart. Up until now we have been very cautious and have been guarding our hearts. I am now past that point and know that I can safely give Melissa my heart. I admire and respect her so much and am so thankful that God has put her in my life. I look forward to see where and how God leads us.
Les
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Forever His
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LaurieFl I am so happy that you stopped in. You were such a blessing to us as we went throught this valley. I have wondered how you are. It is wonderful to hear from you. Thank you!
Les
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BORN AGAIN
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dear ForeverHis, you write quote:
being that I am into " honoring her parents" I will be asking permission to date their daughter [gulp]
I gulped too, but because you are going to ask her parents for permission to date their daughter. I can see socially interacting and meeting her parents but you are both adults and her parents are adults; the parents no longer have jurisdiction so I found it more "gulp" than honoring her parents who have no jurisdiction; but normal mutual social interaction among adults of course we need to honor each other in both directions, the parents as much as you and Melissa.
But, if it pleases you two do so, don't let my comments stop you, of course. God bless, BORN AGAIN
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LaurieFL
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Les, I am so happy for you. You and your boys are often on my mind, and I am blessed to hear of the blessings God has bestowed upon you.
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SoftTouch
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{{{{{{Melissa}}}}}}
God Bless Ya Sis! Thanks for sharing those Wonderful pictures with us! WOW! What a Beautiful group of Brothers and Sisters there! You and Les make quite a Handsome Couple ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
It's been Such A Blessing to have been priviledged to witness the journey the Lord has led Les on since Wendy was 'Promoted.' I know you've read his thread "I thought that you should know" so you know how Blessed we've all been to be able to share so much with him (even if it is just on the internet... but Prayer is bigger then even real life )
I Pray the Lord will give Les and the boys Traveling Mercies and that HE will grant you all an Incredibly Blessed Visit together! In Jesus Name, Amen!
p.s.
Les, You'll let us know what her parents say, won't ya? LOL
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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starrynight2005
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Hi everyone!!
Well, it would be so nice to see all of you in person...
When Les shared his threads on this site with me, it felt like i had just gained a whole new circle of friends! There is a lot of warmth and love here! Did you ever feel like something is happening to you that is bigger that you can really see the whole picture of? If so, then you know how i feel right now! But that's how God's surprises are, aren't they? I think He just loves making us happy!
Les, Nathan and Eric will be in Oregon in only three days...and I can't wait to see them! While the internet is wonderful, it really can't encompass the complete reality of life. So this will be the 4th time we have spent time together - quite a miracle since there are 1200 miles between us. Oh, here is that link Les mentioned. These pictures were taken on a hike last October. There are a number of people shown, but you will likely recognize Les, the boys, Laura, & me.
http://www.ewe2you.com/RaineyFalls/index.html
Maybe we can put up some more in a couple weeks!
love to you all,
Melissa
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SoftTouch
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quote:
Originally posted by Forever His:
Oh... perhaps Melissa will drop in and put up a link to a site with a few pictures of her and myself, Nathan and Eric and a couple of very special friends from Oregon. Perhaps you can pester her to do that
Oh Yes PLEASE?? Please??? Pretty Please????!!!!
My Brother, I don't think her parents will have the least little problem with your asking to 'date' their daughter! Wow! I'm going to have to be SURE to Teach Steven to do that when he's old enough to date (say, 35? J/K!) You are truly an Inspiration Bro! God Bless you, Melissa, and the boys!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Forever His
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WEll, God is indeed good. Melissa came up last summer to our campmeeting and we ended up spending 8 days doing things like hiking, crafts,waterslides etc.together. While I liked her I just didn't think that this would be the " one that you can't live without" so I moved on. God did a few things that caught my attention and I started to realize that Melisaa was not just someone that I should walk away from...
So last fall I had her come up here and she stayed with my folks for 8 days and then after that the kids and I went down there for 8 days. My kids really like Melissa and talk to her often... I find it intersting that Nathan at 14 [going on 24] actually likes to take the time to talk with her but he really enjoys it... and especially likes to tease when he can...
We are now going to be able to take 3 weeks off and go and have the chance to spend some time together.... and this time it will be so different because now we have some true idea that "this is the one"... and... being that I am into " honoring her parents" I will be asking permission to date their daughter [gulp] If I can find my tongue that is
Oh... perhaps Melissa will drop in and put up a link to a site with a few pictures of her and myself, Nathan and Eric and a couple of very special friends from Oregon. Perhaps you can pester her to do that I am normaly very camera shy but you have been such wonderful friends to us...
God Bless
Les
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Les, I am so happy that God has blessed you and Melissa so with each other. God is Good! Always and forever. I know that HE honors your loving and faithful spirit and you do encourage us all so much.
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SoftTouch
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Oh My Brother this is WONDERFUL!!! PRAISE GOD!!!!
Just Yesterday I was thinking about you and wondering how things were going... God Is Good! I think of you every time I look at that precious squirel picture!!! I Love that picture and all the loving memories it brings when I look at it!
How are the boys doing with this? Are they supportive of your new romance? Have they met her yet? I'm just Full of questions LOL!!! I Am SO Happy For You!!!!!! ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Forever His
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We have seen "many" evidences of God's leading... including opening the door to be able to take some time off and go visit her for spring break. That in itself is a huge miracle because there were so many things in the way. I was not at all optamistic that that door would open and here God has opened that door abundantly providing time and money to go. That was very "unexpected" given that I really only worked 5 months last year. And...we will still have our regular holiday this summer so I am kinda pinching myself at God's goodness.
Thank you His Grace for being here for us through those dark days of Wendy's passing. I will never forget you and look forward to meeting upon that sea of glass one day.
God Bless all of you
Les
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HisGrace
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You have been so faithful to the Lord that I am sure he is rewarding you with this beautiful relationship Les.
All the best to the two of you and the boys!!
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Forever His
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For my friends here they will remember that my wife passed away at christmas time just over a year ago leaving myself, Nathan 14 and Eric 11 alone. There was a thread that I kept going for many months and you here were such a comfort to me and it was such a blessing to be able to come here and just have some friends to talk with.
Well.. last sumer I met Melissa and while at first I was running... yet because of her "very" close walk with God I slowed down and it wasnt long before I sensed that this lady is someone that I wanted to get to know better. We have talked much and wrote often, spent some time together and I have since come to realize that this is one very special lady. There is little doubt in our minds that we are meant for each other. I wrote her this very tacky kinda poem on valentines day and thought that I would share it with you...
Roses are red
but I kinda like pink...
and purple is nice
umm, hummm.... I think....
and while flowers are pretty
they can't be compared...
with someone special
and a life... to be shared
And as spring brings forth flower's
and blessings from above....
So sorrow turns to gladness
and kind thought's of love...
Now "if" I could keep silent
and beat around the bush...
My heart would burst open...
with a huge gush...
and so...um... er... well.... ummmm....
what I am trying to say..... is... hummmm
Starrynights... if you will be my valentine....
then I will be.... ....... really fine ![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif)
Here was her reply....
When the moon shone full
tonight
i thought of you, but then
the clouds
drifted over that golden orb
In the sand along the beach
i wrote your name - but then
the tide
washed up and it was gone
so now your name is written
all across my heart
a perfect place for it
to stay
a fire warm forever!!
I LOVE YOU, LES!!
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