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» Christian Message Boards   » Bible Studies   » Bible Topics & Study   » gambling (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: gambling
redkermit
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My 1.5 cents:

If you are looking for scripture that tells you in black and white that gambling in and of itself is sinful, you probably are not going to find it. Even the disciples cast lots to replace Judas, although as HisGrace astutely pointed out, that was before the day of pentecost.

This was brought up some time last year, and I half-heartedly defended gambling, but to me it really falls into the category of something that it's just better not to do. It's like smoking. There's nothing in the bible that says "thou shalt not smoke", but you can find supporting scripture that shows why it's better not to do it, such as your body being a temple. I like the verses helpforhomeschoolers posted, and they made me think twice about it when this was discussed last year.

If it's something you personally are working out, the best thing to do is pray. After much time in prayer and studying, the Good Lord showed me that I needed to lay off watching so many movies. I'm not going to say it's a sin that people go to movies, but for me, I must be obedient, and disobeying God definitely is a sin.

--------------------
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

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wparr
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Galatians 5:13-25

(13) For you were called to freedom, brethren; only DO NOT TURN YOUR FREEDOM INTO AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE FLESH, but through love serve one another.

(14) For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

(15) But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.

(16) But I say, WALK BT THE SPIRIT, AND YOU WILL NOT CARRY OUT THE DESIRE OF THE FLESH.

(17) FOR THE FLESH SETS ITS DESIRE AGAINST THE SPIRIT, AND THE SPIRIT AGAINST THE FLESH; FOR THESES ARE IN OPPOSITION TO ONE ANOTHER, SO THAT YOU MAY NOT DO THE THINGS THAT YOU PLEASE.

(18) But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

(19) Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,

(20) idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,

(21) envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

(22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

(23) gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

(24) NOW THOSE WHO BLELONG TO MESSIAH YAHSHUA HAVE CRUCIFIED THE FLESH WITH IT'S PASSION AND DESIRES.

(25) If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.



This whole topic shows a BIG problem within Churches today, more time spent justifying flesh than seeking to live by Faith, submitt to God, Walk by The Spirit.

What many today call liberty, the lost call Hypocrisy.


From DC Talk song
quote:
The single greatest cause of atheism today is Christians who profess Jesus, walk out the door, and deny Him by their life style.
That is something and unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

The NT talks more of denying self than liberty to do as one desires.

And NO ba I'm not a "sour dough Christian", but I would even waste my time refuting because you wouldn't believe me anyway.

You choose to be a carnal christian, go for it, it's your choice:
But you WILL reap what you sow;
God WILL NOT be mocked.

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BORN AGAIN
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so sister Pleasemaranatha, although some good scriptures have been posted, some close, some tongue-in-cheek, has anyone offered you a scripture yet that gambling is a sin?

God bless, [Cross] BORN AGAIN

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helpforhomeschoolers wrote of her father:
quote:

But he also taught me that if you could not take that dollar that you were going to gamble and throw it out the window and never look back or feel like you had lost something of value, then you should not gamble it. {bold by BORN AGAIN}

thanks for your expanded comments, helpforhomeschoolers. Regarding the bolded part above, if your father said that, I have to disagree with your father. The two sides of his/your example are not equal.

On the one side the $1 of the gambler can make him $3 or $7 or $12 or $16 dollars, depending on the odds.

That is not at al equal to throwing a $1 bill out the window and "never look back or feel like you had lost something of value".

I'm not speaking of your father here, but what person would think it is the same value to "throw a $1 bill out the window and never look back like I lost something", when that $1 can never produce anything greater than $0, or a lost $1.

But that is not at all the case at the racetrack where $1 of the gambler can make $3 or $7 or $12 or $16 dollars or more$, depending on the odds one chooses.

it is not guaranteed by the FDIC, of course, but that's why it is not called investing or savings.

it has its own name, gambling, but it is not at all similar to throwing a $1 bill out the window, God bless his soul.

may the LORD God of Israel bless us. BORN AGAIN

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helpforhomeschoolers
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Addiction to anything is sin I believe, but I do not think that we were speaking of being addicted to anything.
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HisGrace
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Drinking, smoking, gambling? All of these can lead to addictive behaviour. With all due respect, shouldn't we be concerned about influencing a weaker brother?

The scriptures say that we should be doing everything to the glory of God.

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helpforhomeschoolers
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BA: I can appreciate that you feel you have liberty to gamble. And I will not question your liberty. That is for you to decide with HIM... not for me. I feel I have liberty to smoke and there are plenty here who would question my liberty to do that.

I present these scriptures that the person who asked can see how they fit with their own heart, not to argue with you on gambling or even to challenge your liberty to gamble.

1 Corinthians 10:24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another’s wealth.

In buying and selling it could be said that when I sell someone something I am seeking to increase him with the good of the thing that I sell to him....If I am a godly sales man, then what I sell should be of a value equal to or greater than what I receive for it... in which case I seek the buyer's good and I am blessed in the process.

If I am a godly buyer, I should seek to buy at a price that is fair to the seller.

So, it is possible in buying and selling to preserve Godly principles.

I personally am unable to see that with gambling. If we play poker, my increase must come at your decrease. If I participate in para mutual gambling, the same is true. I see that the same is also true with lottery and machine gambling as well.

Again, this is my opinion. It is in no way meant to question your liberty to gamble. IF you are able to gamble in faith with praise and thankgiving and glory unto HIM more power to ya!

You might think it is a sin that I dont gamble.

I have never been interested in gambling because my dad was a gambler. He was a very successful gambler at dog racing. I used to go with him to the track and he taught me all about the science of dog racing and I recall times that he left the track throwing $100.00 bills in the air for me and my girlfriend to catch as we walked behind him. He was of the philosophy that his gambling never took from his family and so because he paid the bills first always and we never had want or need of anything that if he gambled what he set aside after doing that it was fine.

But he also taught me that if you could not take that dollar that you were going to gamble and throw it out the window and never look back or feel like you had lost something of value, then you should not gamble it.

So, I never became one for gambling because I could never do that with even a 1 dollar bill. So you might look at my personal reason for NOT gambling and say it is the sin of covetousness of that 1 dollar bill. Of course I do not see that as covetousness, but you surely might.

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helpforhomeschoolers writes
quote:
For someone to gain in gambling, someone must lose; our Gain at the expense of another's loss is not God's way.

when I buy something on sale, someone loses something. when I don't buy anything, someone also loses something. money is moving back and forth, back and forth, all the time, now in my hands, now in someone else's hands.

a huge organization like the horsetrack is in business to make money, just like any other business.

it is further overlooked that I'm not just going to "gamble" and then stand there like a bump-on-a-log waiting for the next race to go off. I exercise and walk and even jog on the vast and beautiful grounds while rejoicing with the Christian CD, I sit on benches to warm myself in the beautiful late Winter air and sun, I people-watch, I horse-watch, I architecture-watch, I flora-watch, I have a few Irish beers...and when it's post time for the race, I enjoy the animals run. Ya'll make it so evilly simplistic, but I do much more than jus' gamblin', eh?

for me to gain, someone has to lose. you bet. money is always moving. it's like that.

God bless, BORN AGAIN [Cross]

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helpforhomeschoolers
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For someone to gain in gambling, someone must lose; Our Gain at the expense of another's loss is not God's way.

Proverbs 10:22 The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it.

1 Corinthians 10:24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another’s wealth.

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Pleasemaranatha
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It has been a few hours since I read your post Born Again and nobody has said anything yet. I will....I just want to tell you that I get a kick out of you! You are a HOOT. I am looking forward to meeting you in heaven! LOL. You crack me up and make me smile.

--------------------
My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning. Psalms 130 verse 6

Joyce

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wparr writes
quote:
It's amazing how Christians will work so hard to justify pleasing their flesh (that's all gambling is, a pleasing of flesh/self)
according to someone like you, one would barely be allowed to get out of one's chair, lest the flesh might "act up".

John 10:10
The thief comes only to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it {life} more abundantly.

Ecclesiastes 3:13
And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labor, it is the gift of God.

1 Timothy 6:17
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy.

Do you know what it means to enjoy yourself, wparr? Or are you one of those "sour, dour" Christians, always "trying to be good" but always finding yourself "disappointed" that "you have failed again"?

I tried that kind of Christian life; I was miserable and everyone hated to be around me because I was always trying to be "mr. goodie-two shoes" but they could all see that it was just a thin intellectual veneer which barely covered the sin in my members. yuck! I thank God that He has delivered me from that kind of Christianity.

God bless, BORN AGAIN [Cross]

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HisGrace
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In the Bible we hear about the casting of lots. Through Jesus' death on the cross,we have the Holy Spirit to prompt us with our decisions.

After the Day of Pentecost the apostles relied upon the Holy Spirit to directly guide them.

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

~In effect the soldiers gambled for Jesus' clothing.

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wparr
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It's amazing how Christians will work so hard to justify pleasing their flesh (that's all gambling is, a pleasing of flesh/self)

If only that much effort and desire were put in a pursuit of righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance and gentleness.


1 Timothy 6:3-12
(3) If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,
(4) he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions,
(5) and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.
(6) But godliness actually is a means of great gain when accompanied by contentment.
(7) For we have brought nothing into the world, so we cannot take anything out of it either.
(8) If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content.
(9) But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction.
(10) For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
(11) But flee from these things, you man of God, and PURSUE RIGHTEOUSNESS, GODLINESS, FAITH, LOVE, PERSEVERANCE, AND GENTLENESS.
(12) Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.


How much stronger The Body of Christ would be, and how much greater our witness would be.


I'm not claiming or pretending to have it alltogeather in the least, but I don't try to JUSTIFY my acts of the flesh.


I will come alongside a brother or sister who says "I'm struggling with xyz (whatever their struggle is with)" because it shows an attitude of repentance and the working of The Holy Spirit in their life.

But I can't be in agreement with someone who just tries to justify or excuse sin and their flesh.

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HisGrace
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The faith of a gambler must be very small.

Philippians 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content

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Sister HisGrace writes
quote:
Gambling is built on the premise that whatever you have is not enough.
uh, I don’t know about how blessed you are, but do you have so much that you now say that gambling is based on the premise that whatever you have is not enough?” I mean, the LORD has blessed me and I feel blessed with what I now have, but I could still enlarge my tent, God-willing, and be quite happy with that too.

So it’s only part of the truth to say that “gambling” is built on that premise, when in fact many worthy endeavors, like work and free enterprise for instance, are “built on the premise that whatever you have is not enough.” Like, duh?? You continue:
quote:
It appeals to greed with outrageous prizes.
Actually the odds at the horse races where I go to gamble are pretty good; much better than the lottery, for instance. Or better than buying a third and a tenth and thirtieth television set (since a TV is an “acceptable” product for Christians to buy). Or let me say that the odds of gambling are no better or worse than buying other products in society. Instead of buying a new car, I go have fun at the track. Is that more sinful than buying a new car?
quote:
It is also built on discontent. You don't have enough, there's a lot more out there.
yeah, like in life for all poor working suckers like me; we don’t have enough and there is a lot more out there, and we are trying to get some more. Or perhaps I should go on welfare and have someone else support me, lest it be said that "I'm trying to get some more?"
quote:
Often the poor are exploited, because they can't afford to buy tickets, but think that possibly they win big and their problems will be solved. You often hear of the poor buying lottery tickets every week which they can't afford. [bold by BORN AGAIN}
Regarding the bolded part: Oh yeah? “You often hear”? Do you mean, “I often hear”? All the people that I have seen lately buying lottery tickets have been able to afford the $5, thank you. You are talking about exceptions, sister, not the norm.
quote:
It is also built on deceit. You think you are going to win something for next to nothing.
that is just doodeley-kwacking nonsense. Do you really think that there is anyone at the racetrack thinking “I am going to win something for next to nothing”?
quote:
There of course is always the possibility of addiction, which is a major problem in N. America.
yes, there is; not everyone should play. Nor should everyone have a driver’s license or own a gun or eat too much fat and sweet things. Whatever. In moderation it will go well with me.
quote:
If someone with an addictive-type of personality sees a Christian gambling, that believer might cause the weaker person to fall.
This hypothetical someone would have to already be at the track in order to see a Christian gambling there—and then the person would have to know that someone else is a Christian, and most likely that person couldn’t care less to know whether someone is a Christian or not.

So the odds, to use a horsetrack term, that anyone would ever find out someone gambling there is a Christian is extremely unlikely and that the person would even care one way or the other is also unlikely; this statement of yours is therefore not likely to ever occur in reality and only lives in your thought life.
quote:
1 Cor. 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
HisGrace further writes
quote:
”money God has blessed you with?”
well, yeah!? You don’t think so? You don’t think the Father likes me and loves to bless me as one of His adopted children in whom He is well-pleased because of Christ?
quote:
We would also have to ask ourselves "Is gambling good stewardship of the money God has blessed us with?"
We? Did someone join you at your computer that you now say “we would also have to ask ourselves”?

Lastly, you write
quote:
“Is gambling good stewardship of the money God has blessed us with?”
Umm, is it better stewardship of the money God has blessed me with to buy a filet mignon at the supermarket if I or you can afford it? Or tell me sister, what do you buy and own now, list a couple of things for me, and I will tell you whether I think they were “good stewardship of the money God has blessed you with”?

May the LORD God of Israel bless us all on this CBBS, I am BORN AGAIN

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Pleasemaranatha
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Thanks Born Again and His Grace for your responses. [Smile]

--------------------
My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning. Psalms 130 verse 6

Joyce

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HisGrace
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Prov. 28:20 - A faithful man shall abound with blessings, but he that maketh haste to be rich shall not be innocent.

Gambling is built on the premise that whatever you have is not enough.
- It appeals to greed with outragious prizes.
- It is also built on discontent. You don't have enough, there's a lot more out there.
- Often the poor are exploited, because they can't afford to buy tickets, but think that possibly they win big and their problems will be solved. You often hear of the poor buying lottery tickets every week which they can't afford..
- It is is also built on deceit. You think you are going to win something for next to nothing.
- There of course is always the possibility of addiction, which is a major problem in N. America.

If someone with an addictive-type of personality sees a Christian gambling, that believer might cause the weaker person to fall.

1 Cor. 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. money God has blessed you with?

~We would also have to ask ourselves "Is gambling good stewardship of the money God has blessed us with?"

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Exodus 21:21
Notwithstanding, if he continues a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

Proverbs 7:20
He has taken a bag of money with him, and he will come home at the day appointed.

Ecclesiastes 10:19
A feast is made for laughter, and wine makes merry: but money answers all things.

Psalm 20:7
Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.

Jeremiah 12:5
If you have run with the footmen, and they have wearied you, then how can you contend with horses?

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Pleasemaranatha
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I can't find a scripture in the bible about gambling being a sin. Can anyone suggest a scripture?

Also, a different subject that I have. If you know a person who tells lies constantly....how can you help them to stop besides praying for them? I think they know they have this problem but can't stop. Maybe it is fear of rejection or low self esteem. But other than praying for them, how can we help?

God Bless

--------------------
My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning. Psalms 130 verse 6

Joyce

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