|
Author
|
Topic: the thief on the cross said, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom"
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
But note that the thief said, "Lord, remember we when you come into your kingdom", but the Lord took him to paradise.
The thief was dying so he could not participate in the kingdom of God on earth that was about to begin under the administration of Jesus.
So since the thief asked for the kingdom, would the Lord just give him paradise instead, unless paradise was, as it were, a holding tank for all those who later will get to participate in the kingdom?
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
LOL! Who knows!!!
I look at it like this:
Jesus is the Authority and He knows the answers EVEN WHEN WE MIGHT ASK THE WRONG QUESTION. Jesus responds to us where we are in understanding.
I don't think the thief even considered he would get granted a pass to Paradise. He didn't feel worthy and just asked Jesus the King to "remember me".
I believe we will get to meet this "former thief" one day when we are part of Christ's Literal Kingdom on earth, and perhaps he will be part of that Kingdom.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
But note that the thief said, "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom", but the Lord took him to paradise.
The thief was dying so he could not participate in the kingdom of God on earth that was about to begin under the administration of Jesus.
So since the thief asked for the kingdom, would the Lord just give him paradise instead, unless paradise was, as it were, a holding tank for all those who later will get to participate in the kingdom?
Matthew 7:10
Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by epouraniois:
Now if Christ speaks of paradise rather than the kingdom, are we to assume the kingdom is what was meant, or if paradise and the kingdom are the same, I would ask for the verses so I may look them up, I know not any verses where the hope of Israel was paradise, or that paradise was nigh at hand, or that the Lord had gone out teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the Gospel of the paradise, but am quite ready to look at any verses where these terms are interchangable.
Not much is said in scripture about Paradise. The key is Jesus's exact words to the repentant thief; "This day you will be WITH ME in Paradise."
Paul states to be absent from the body is to be PRESENT WITH THE LORD."
If you read carefully all the New Testament parables and references about the Kingdom of God/Heaven you will see that it's NOT Paradise.
Servants of the Kingdom can be cast into outer darkness for unforgiveness, wasting their talents, and lack of mercy toward others. Servants of the Kingdom can be like the 5 foolish virgins and not have enough oil in their lamps and end up missing the Bridegroom's coming.
If the Kingdom of God is the same thing as eternal life with God in the throne room in heaven after death, then it means that we could get kicked out of heaven. We know once we die, that's when judgement of where we go occurs.
In Revelation we see a view of the redeemed before the throne of God and they are worshipping and praising God and wear white robes, and are promised that every tear will be wiped away.
That is truly Paradise in my book.
The Kingdom of God as preached by Jesus and John the Baptist is the spiritual kingdom we as believers and servants of the Most High God can attain and walk in while alive physically on this earth. Jesus said His Kingdom was not of this world.
He is our King of Kings Now and Forever. He will return to gather the children of the Kingdom, the tares and the wheat will be separated.
As believers we can enter the Holy of Holies through Christ Jesus. We can not enter it, when we are in sin such as mentioned by Paul.
Do not be deceived, those who practice fornication, hatred, strife, etc will not enter the Kingdom. Jesus said if we have ought with a brother to leave our gift at the altar and make recompense with our brother first and then we can offer our gift.
If one reads about the Kingdom of God parables as being able to literally be saved, then it appears we are saved by works. So the Kingdom parables are not talking about Salvation, because we know that Salvation is from Christ alone and not through any works we have done or could do.
Paul informs us that as believers and true son and daughters of God through Christ, we can be chastised, disciplined and punished for not following the principles of the Kingdom.
I'll be happy to give you these scriptures once I look them up if you wish. I am quoting from memory at this time.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
epouraniois
unregistered
|
posted
Now if Christ speaks of paradise rather than the kingdom, are we to assume the kingdom is what was meant, or if paradise and the kingdom are the same, I would ask for the verses so I may look them up, I know not any verses where the hope of Israel was paradise, or that paradise was nigh at hand, or that the Lord had gone out teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the Gospel of the paradise, but am quite ready to look at any verses where these terms are interchangable.
"the death of the cross", which was the death the Romans put slaves, thieves, and robbers, and the worst and basest of men to, and the seemingly warrantless inclusion of these 'others' to presuppose them as being 'other' Hebrews is far a strecth for me, I can't add that in, for surely it would be so very uncommon for a Hebrew to fall into the catagory which the Bible reveals, as there would necessarily be some discorse of such a ones also being brought to the Romans, even outside the scope of the Bible, such as Josephus, but there is not.
I would ask for review of the following, perhaps there is more to be gleaned from the text:
It is recorded that both the robbers reviled Him (Matt. 27:44. Mark 15:32); while in Luke 23:39 only one of the malefactors "railed on Him", and "the other rebuked him" for so doing (v. 40).
The first two (malefactors) who were "led with Him" were placed one on either side. When the other two (robbers) were brought, much later, they were also similarly placed; so that there were two (one of each) on either side, and the Lord in the midst. The malefactors were therefore the nearer, and being on the inside they could speak to each other better, and the one with the Lord, as recorded (Luke 23:39-43).
John's record confirms this, for he speaks only of place, and not of time. He speaks, generally of the fact : "where they crucified Him, and with Him others, two on this side, and that side, and Jesus in the midst" (John 19:8). In Rev. 22:2 we have the same expression in the Greek (enteuthen kai enteuthen), which is accurately rendered "on either side". So it should be rendered here: "and with Him others, on either side".
But John further states (19:32, 33) : "then came the soldiers and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with Him. But when they came (Gr. = having come) to Jesus, and saw that He was dead already, they brake not His legs." Had there been only two (one on either side) the soldiers would not have come to the Lord, but would have passed Him, and then turned back again. But they came to Him after they had broken the legs of the first two.
There are two words used of the "other" and "others" in John 19:32 and Luke 23:32. In the former passage we read, "they brake the legs of the first and of the other." Here the Greek is allos which is the other (the second) of the two when there are more (see Matt. 10:23; 25:16, 17, 20; 27:61; 28:1. John 18:15, 16; 20:2, 4, 8. and Rev. 17:10).
In the latter passage (Luke 23:32) the word is heteros = different: "and others also, two were being led with Him." These were different from Him with Whom they were led, not different from one another; for they were "in the same condemnation", and "justly", while He had "done nothing amiss" (vv. 40, 41).
He did not promise the robber the Jews inheritance, rather He promises him immediate and conscious fellowship after death with Christ in Paradise which is a Persian word. Some Jews did use the word for the abode of the pious dead till the resurrection, interpreting “Abraham’s bosom” (Luk 16:22.)
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.
There just may be something to be said for those who acknowledge the Lord as the only Potentate, as I read it, it is those who have this acknowledgment who also have peace of mind in the flesh, as well as other attributes that comes with the knowing of the Salvation of God.
IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
Yes, I am understanding the Word that way.
John the Baptist said "Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand".
Jesus spoke volumes about how to walk and know if we were in the Kingdom or not. He taught us how to live in the spiritual kingdom which prepares us for his actual Millenial Reign when He will return with His Bride to defeat the Evil One.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
Dear sister WhiteEagle, you write quote:
Jesus told the thief that he would be with Him in Paradise. Paradise is the afterlife and place for believers to be with Jesus in Heaven.
The Kingdom of God is on earth and is a spiritual kingdom that believers can walk in when they are obedient to God through Christ.
Since the thief was dying, you are right he didn't get to be in the Kingdom. He went straight to Paradise.
but if must be from paradise that the Lord will come with “all His saints at His Coming”, while the kingdom of God is continuing on earth among “whosoever believes in every nation is accepted of Him”.
The thief died before the Second Coming, and therefore the thief is in Paradise, but if I die before the Second Coming, I will also go to Paradise and sit next to the thief until the Second Coming, right?
Zechariah 14:5
And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with You.
1 Thessalonians 3:13
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
These saints are coming from paradise, are they not?
God bless, BORN AGAIN by the
IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Good morning WildB.
And a good morning it is.
Pss.118
[24] This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aaron:
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
Thief on the cross: "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."
Jesus said: "this day shall you be with me in paradise."
I don't understand the squabble but I'd like to pose a question:
Why did Jesus say "you will be with me in paradise" and not "you will be with me in my kingdom"?
Aaron
I think I answered this question you posed, in my post to Born Again.
The thief didn't get to walk in the Kingdom of God because he didn't have time, he was dying. He went directly to Paradise. We too will go to Paradise (to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord) when we die in the afterlife which is before the Rapture.
We can be in the Kingdom of God here and now. It's the walk of the believer with God on earth.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by epouraniois:
I can only note that the Lord's reponse was a denial of the man's desire to get into the kingdom, for the Lord did not even mention the kingdom to him, rather, he spoke about paradise, which is never equated with the kingdom. The kingdom which He referred, the kingdom preached and set forth in the O.T. is none other than the kingdom given and promised only to the Hebrew tribes, for He came not but for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and this gentile believer was not who He came for, but was promised to see Him in paradise, saying (puncuation mine)-
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, thou shalt be with me in paradise.
I disagree with your doctrine.
1. We do not know if the thief was a Gentile or a Jew. (no where in scripture does it designate his origin either way.)
2. The Kingdom of Heaven/God is for Jews and Gentiles alike. refer to Isaiah 11:10
" And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."
Romans 15:8-16
Isaiah 42:6 Isaiah 49:22
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
okay. the thief did not have any time to "clean himself up" but he was able to get into paradise. the thief could just say, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."
since God is no respecter of persons, does that mean that we can simply say too, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom", backed by the same sincere belief and have assurance that we will go into paradise?
what I mean is, to what extent does "cleaning ourselves up" have to do with being saved since the thief was not able to clean himself up in any way?
does the fact that people who are not stuck on a cross have time to "clean themselves up" have anything to do with ultimate salvation?
thanks, BORN AGAIN
I don't know if you've ever read the books by Max Lucado, "No Wonder They call Him Savior" and " Six hours One Friday", but in both books Max does a wonderful exposition on the Thief on the cross.
The point of the story of the Thief on the cross shows the shining bottom line of what it takes to receive Salvation in Christ, and it's all we need to be saved.
1. The thief repented and realized he was a sinner and deserved to die for his sins.
2. He realized and believed that Jesus was sinless and did not deserve to die.
3. He realized that Jesus was the Sacrifice of God to save mankind.
4. He humbly ASKED Jesus to remember him.
5. He made a public confession of faith while he was dying on the cross. (remember the other thief was mocking Jesus)
Jesus told the thief that he would be with Him in Paradise. Paradise is the afterlife and place for believers to be with Jesus in Heaven.
The Kingdom of God is on earth and is a spiritual kingdom that believers can walk in when they are obedient to God through Christ.
Since the thief was dying, you are right he didn't get to be in the Kingdom. He went straight to Paradise.
Well said. One must remember that at that time Paradise was yet Abraham's bosom located in the center of the earth next to Hell seperated by a great gulf..
Luke.16
[26] And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eph.4
[7] But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
[8] Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
[9] (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
[10] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rom.4
1. [4] Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
[5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
[6] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
[7] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
[8] Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
2. [16] Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
okay. the thief did not have any time to "clean himself up" but he was able to get into paradise. the thief could just say, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."
since God is no respecter of persons, does that mean that we can simply say too, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom", backed by the same sincere belief and have assurance that we will go into paradise?
what I mean is, to what extent does "cleaning ourselves up" have to do with being saved since the thief was not able to clean himself up in any way?
does the fact that people who are not stuck on a cross have time to "clean themselves up" have anything to do with ultimate salvation?
thanks, BORN AGAIN
I don't know if you've ever read the books by Max Lucado, "No Wonder They call Him Savior" and " Six hours One Friday", but in both books Max does a wonderful exposition on the Thief on the cross.
The point of the story of the Thief on the cross shows the shining bottom line of what it takes to receive Salvation in Christ, and it's all we need to be saved.
1. The thief repented and realized he was a sinner and deserved to die for his sins.
2. He realized and believed that Jesus was sinless and did not deserve to die.
3. He realized that Jesus was the Sacrifice of God to save mankind.
4. He humbly ASKED Jesus to remember him.
5. He made a public confession of faith while he was dying on the cross. (remember the other thief was mocking Jesus)
Jesus told the thief that he would be with Him in Paradise. Paradise is the afterlife and place for believers to be with Jesus in Heaven.
The Kingdom of God is on earth and is a spiritual kingdom that believers can walk in when they are obedient to God through Christ.
Since the thief was dying, you are right he didn't get to be in the Kingdom. He went straight to Paradise.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
epouraniois
unregistered
|
posted
I can only note that the Lord's reponse was a denial of the man's desire to get into the kingdom, for the Lord did not even mention the kingdom to him, rather, he spoke about paradise, which is never equated with the kingdom. The kingdom which He referred, the kingdom preached and set forth in the O.T. is none other than the kingdom given and promised only to the Hebrew tribes, for He came not but for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and this gentile believer was not who He came for, but was promised to see Him in paradise, saying (puncuation mine)-
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, thou shalt be with me in paradise.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Aaron
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
Should we still talk to the LORD God like Nehemiah did, and say to Him, remember me also O my God, concerning my good deeds that I have done for the house of God?
Is that kind of talk "rewards kind of talk"? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
God bless, BORN AGAIN
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I suppose. To be honest I know very few people who can talk in such a way...few people have such intimacy with the Lord that they are confident enough to proclaim the counsel of the Lord in teaching, preaching and even in matters concerning their own reward.
It seems Paul was given such an understanding of what reward awaited him:
For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
First a saint must know what race he is to run. Most believers I know seem content to run a "generalized" race. Paul's race was very specific: "..he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
Paul knew it: For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles-- 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.
8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the *fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things *through Jesus Christ; 10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, 11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him. 13 Therefore I ask that you do not lose heart at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
We should not think it extraordinary that the Lord would be so specific in our calling. Rather, I think we should expect such precision in our calling...I don't see the Lord suggesting any time soon that we should "fill in the blanks" of something that is connected to our eternal reward.
Aaron
IP: Logged |
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
Aaron writes quote:
It seems (to me) that everlasting life is the gift of salvation whereas one's place in the kingdom deals with the reward for faithfulness.
There is no reward for the unbelievers. The gift is first. Then, once one accepts the gift and becomes one of God's children he/she is given a reward for their faithfulness.
thanks for those words, Aaron; salvation is a gift, but rewards can be earned once one has received the gift. The thief therefore had little or no rewards, but the gift of salvation is spectacular in its own right.
i was interested to read in Nehemiah that the Tirshasa Nehemiah did not hesitate to remind God of "all the good work Nehemiah had done toward the kingdom of God":
Like this one in Nehemiah 5:
Nehemiah 5
19 Think upon me, my God, for good, according to all that I have done for this people.
And this one in Nehemiah 13
14Remember me, O my God, concerning this, and wipe not out my good deeds that I have done for the house of my God, and for the offices thereof.
Should we still talk to the LORD God like Nehemiah did, and say to Him, remember me also O my God, concerning my good deeds that I have done for the house of God?
Is that kind of talk "rewards kind of talk"?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
IP: Logged |
|
|
Aaron
unregistered
|
posted
It seems (to me) that everlasting life is the gift of salvation whereas one's place in the kingdom deals with the reward for faithfulness.
There is no reward for the unbelievers. The gift is first. Then, once one accepts the gift and becomes one of God's children he/she is given a reward for their faithfulness.
Also, it seems, that the reward for faithfulness is given at the time of judgment. Prior to judgment the saints are only given a down payment for faithfulness: the Holy Spirit. Their reward is given later at the time of judgment. Here, their place in the kingdom will be determined.
Then there issue of the millennial reign of Christ vs. the post-millennial kingdom.
Thoughts?
Aaron
IP: Logged |
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
okay. the thief did not have any time to "clean himself up" but he was able to get into paradise. the thief could just say, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."
since God is no respecter of persons, does that mean that we can simply say too, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom", backed by the same sincere belief and have assurance that we will go into paradise?
what I mean is, to what extent does "cleaning ourselves up" have to do with being saved since the thief was not able to clean himself up in any way?
does the fact that people who are not stuck on a cross have time to "clean themselves up" have anything to do with ultimate salvation?
thanks, BORN AGAIN
IP: Logged |
|
|
Stophie
Community Member
Member # 5516
|
posted
I agree with what WhiteEagle and WKUHilltopper said. I see it as the thief being saved because he turned his heart around and came to believe in Jesus.
Posts: 13 | From: Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
|
|
yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738
|
posted
Shalom Aaron,maybe the answer is here.
1Corinthians 15:20-
But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
For since by man came death, by Man (Yeshua) also came the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
But each one in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christs at His coming.
Then comes the end, when He delivers the Kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
To me paradise is a real place, and a place that Yeshua said to the thief on the cross that "You will be with me in Paradise.The Kingdom has been added to daily since Christs resurrection and one day Yeshua will deliver this Kingdom to God the Father.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WKUHilltopper
Advanced Member
Member # 5472
|
posted
Because you're saved by Grace and not by works. The thief was saved because he believed. The first shall be last and the last shall be first.
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Aaron
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
Thief on the cross: "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."
Jesus said: "this day shall you be with me in paradise."
I don't understand the squabble but I'd like to pose a question:
Why did Jesus say "you will be with me in paradise" and not "you will be with me in my kingdom"?
Aaron
IP: Logged |
|
|
wparr
Advanced Member
Member # 891
|
posted
BA
PLEASE DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT,TRY TO PUT IMPLICATIONS INTO MY POSTS THAT I DON'T!!!!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
Or does the fact, as wparr seems to imply, that I have time while I am still walking upon the earth, "to fix a few things in me" and "I am obligated to fix them" if I want to get into paradise?
I NEVER NEVER NEVER implied that YOU had to "fix" things in yourself, and that it was necessary to get into Heaven
That is DISHONEST and DECEPTIVE BA
BUT if you are TRUELY Born Again and God Indwells you, and you walk this earth for a length of time, God WILL do cleaning in your life, continually and ongoing.
It's not that I think this, but that GOD'S WORD PROCLAIMS THIS TRUTH.
Romans 8:29
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become CONFORMED to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
1 Peter 1:13-19
(13) Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
(14) As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance,
(15) but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
(16) because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
(17) If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;
(18) knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers,
(19) but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.
Romans 12:1-2
(1) Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
(2) And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
1 John 2:15
Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the
love of the Father is not in him.
Galatians 5:24-25
(24) Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its
passions and desires.
(25) If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
2 Corinthians 5:15
and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves,
but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed
away; behold, new things have come.
Luke 9:23-25
(23) And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he
MUST deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.
(24) "For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life
for My sake, he is the one who will save it.
(25) "For what is a man profited if he gains the whole world, and loses or
forfeits himself?
James 2:17
Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
We aren’t who we use to be, we can’t continue to act, think and behave that way.
Some (many) will buck this, saying it’s not essential, not mandatory, but rather
optional.
Jesus tells us WE MUST
IF we are His disciples,
WE MUST lay ourselves down,
we MUST deny our wants, desires, passions, loves.
He gives us freeewil, so we must CHOOSE TO.
If you aren't willing to, start truely searching your heart to make sure you ARE In
Christ.
His Word, is Truth
His Word says it WILL happen if we are His.
God’s will and plan for us, His blood bought children, is to be conformed to the
image of Jesus.
Who does the work?
God does, He is the one who justifies us, who glorifies us.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
the thief on the cross said, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." He had not time to clean himself up.
the Lord God Jeshua-Jesus said to the thief, "this day shall you be with me in paradise."
the thief did not have any time to clean himself up.
now, the LORD God of Israel is not a respecter of persons.
the thief made it into paradise by believing in his heart probably that Jesus was the Son of God of Psalm 2.
And the thief saved himself by simply saying, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."
Now my question is, the thief was dying on the cross and could not come off, and I'm so busy serving my Master, that I ain't got time to die, get out of my way, if I don't praise Him now, then the rocks are gonna cry out, glory and honor, ain't got time to die."
My question is: Can any person on earth just say to the Lord, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom" and know that he or she is saved thereby?
Or does the fact, as wparr seems to imply, that I have time while I am still walking upon the earth, "to fix a few things in me" and "I am obligated to fix them" if I want to get into paradise?
the thief did not have any time to clean himself up. Yet the Lord God Jeshua-Jesus said, "this day shall you be with me in paradise".
the LORD God of Israel is not a respecter of persons.
Does the fact that I have time make a difference, or not, to my salvation and to my going to paradise?
May the LORD God of Israel bless His adopted children, especially who help out in His Family, BORN AGAIN
1. the thief didn't save himself.
2. we can't fix things
The thief had a heart change and became totally submitted and had faith in Jesus while he was on the cross. God looks at the heart. Just think how hard or impossible it was for the thief to be able to see Jesus as Messiah and the Way of Salvation while Jesus was also nailed to the cross and dying. Boy! THAT take a supernatural faith!
That would like us saying something that was totally opposed to natural reality.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
the thief on the cross said, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." He had not time to clean himself up.
the Lord God Jeshua-Jesus said to the thief, "this day shall you be with me in paradise."
the thief did not have any time to clean himself up.
now, the LORD God of Israel is not a respecter of persons.
the thief made it into paradise by believing in his heart probably that Jesus was the Son of God of Psalm 2.
And the thief saved himself by simply saying, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."
Now my question is, the thief was dying on the cross and could not come off, and I'm so busy serving my Master, that I ain't got time to die, get out of my way, if I don't praise Him now, then the rocks are gonna cry out, glory and honor, ain't got time to die."
My question is: Can any person on earth just say to the Lord, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom" and know that he or she is saved thereby?
Or does the fact, as wparr seems to imply, that I have time while I am still walking upon the earth, "to fix a few things in me" and "I am obligated to fix them" if I want to get into paradise?
the thief did not have any time to clean himself up. Yet the Lord God Jeshua-Jesus said, "this day shall you be with me in paradise".
the LORD God of Israel is not a respecter of persons.
Does the fact that I have time make a difference, or not, to my salvation and to my going to paradise?
May the LORD God of Israel bless His adopted children, especially who help out in His Family, BORN AGAIN
IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
