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Topic: If counting from 1948, what year must u leave earth if u believe in pretrib rapture?
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WKUHilltopper
Advanced Member
Member # 5472
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by oneyearandcounting:
Hey Ba not sure if it matters but I have always been a 1948 guy. But I am not a pre trib guy. I at one time had something that I had worked on that worked with the 1948 and the 1967. Seeing as how I haven't thought of the end in awhile though I can't rember it all. But anyhoo I think the countdown starts at 1948. Or atleast I pray it does, if it is it means a sooner time to see our Lord.
God bless
greg
I think many (not meaning anyone on here) get tied up in the "generation" calculation. The way I look at it, if God willed it, He could allow a handful of people or even one born around 1948/1967 live over 120 years so they could witness the event. That way their "generation" sees it. All I know is God doesn't lie, so something discussed in this thread will happen.
I'm not sure I'm pre or post trib guy. There's some passages that suggest pre and some that suggest post.
Great discussion!
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
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oneyearandcounting
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Member # 4449
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posted
Hey Ba not sure if it matters but I have always been a 1948 guy. But I am not a pre trib guy. I at one time had something that I had worked on that worked with the 1948 and the 1967. Seeing as how I haven't thought of the end in awhile though I can't rember it all. But anyhoo I think the countdown starts at 1948. Or atleast I pray it does, if it is it means a sooner time to see our Lord.
God bless
greg
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Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.
Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005
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BORN AGAIN
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I just committed the ultimate sin and typed my response in the CBBS window instead of in MS Word and copying it later into the CBBS. I had a great answer ready and I hit some key and the Devil took away the seed that was sown in my heart and I lost it. The LORD had told me to ALWAYS work in MS Word or whatever first and then copy it, else beautiful posts get lost.
Let me see what I can remember of it.
epouraniois, I wanted to say that I appreciate you being here and I had actually thought that perhaps you had moved on to other sites for a while to discuss “hyper-dispensationism” (or what it was called by ____ on the CBBS), but you seem to be a healthy Christian in that you can and do speak about many subjects. And that is a good sign.
So welcome back. What I like about you is that your extensive knowledge helps keep Topics going with your many good comments.
To get back on Topic, regarding Israel being the fig tree, I admit that Israel and the land of Israel had many fig trees in it, and Israel is compared to a fig tree naturally in the Scriptures. Here they are:
1. Judges 9:10
And the trees said to the fig tree, Come thou, and reign over us.
2. Judges 9:11
But the fig tree said unto them, Should I forsake my sweetness, and my good fruit, and go to be promoted over the trees?
3. 1 Kings 4:25
And Judah and Israel dwelt safely, every man under his vine and under his fig tree, from Dan even to Beersheba, all the days of Solomon.
4. 2 Kings 18:31
Hearken not to Hezekiah: for thus saith the king of Assyria, Make an agreement with me by a present, and come out to me, and then eat ye every man of his own vine, and every one of his fig tree, and drink ye every one the waters of his cistern:
5. Proverbs 27:18
Whoso keepeth the fig tree shall eat the fruit thereof: so he that waiteth on his master shall be honoured.
6. Song of Solomon 2:13
The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.
7. Isaiah 34:4
And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
8. Isaiah 36:16
Hearken not to Hezekiah: for thus saith the king of Assyria, Make an agreement with me by a present, and come out to me: and eat ye every one of his vine, and every one of his fig tree, and drink ye every one the waters of his own cistern;
9. Jeremiah 8:13
I will surely consume them, saith the LORD: there shall be no grapes on the vine, nor figs on the fig tree, and the leaf shall fade; and the things that I have given them shall pass away from them.
10. Hosea 9:10
I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.
11. Joel 1:7
He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white.
12. Joel 1:12
The vine is dried up, and the fig tree languisheth; the pomegranate tree, the palm tree also, and the apple tree, even all the trees of the field, are withered: because joy is withered away from the sons of men.
13. Joel 2:22
Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring, for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength.
14. Micah 4:4
But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.
15. Habakkuk 3:17
Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls:
16. Haggai 2:19
Is the seed yet in the barn? yea, as yet the vine, and the fig tree, and the pomegranate, and the olive tree, hath not brought forth: from this day will I bless you.
17. Zechariah 3:10
In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.
18. Matthew 21:19
And when He {Jesus} saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said to it, Let no fruit grow on you henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
19. Matthew 21:20
And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
20. Matthew 21:21
Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
21. Matthew 24:32
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
22. Mark 11:13
And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
23. Mark 11:20
And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
24. Mark 11:21
And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
25. Mark 13:28
Now learn a parable of the FIG TREE; When her branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near:
Look, Israel/Judah, your land of full of fig trees, you know that when the fig tree puts forth her green buds, that Summer is near.
Now Mark 13:28 is being said in the context of Mark 13:27 and Mark 13:29:
Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
28Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
29 So you in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is near, even at the doors.
What is Jesus saying in 30 A.D to the people of Israel/Judah who are listening to Him in 30 A.D. in the land of Israel/Judah?
Jesus is saying, Look, you guys know that when the fig tree buds green, then summer is near. Likewise when you shall see these things…
What things are these? “When you Jewish Christians see Jerusalem encompassed by armies, KNOW THAT THE END IS NEAR and flee for your lives to the mountain”.
And that is what happened. Vespasian came and surrounded Jerusalem, but Vespasian had to abruptly brake the siege and rush back with his army to Rome to secure the emperorship.
That was the sign, “ when the fig tree shows its green buds, know that summer is near”. Likewise, when you see these armies surrounding Jerusalem, flee for your lives, for the end is JUST AS NEAR.”
But all this was said in the context of Mark 13:27, namely that:
Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
In this Mark 13:27, Jesus was referring to the angels gathering the firstfruits who were saved of Old National Israel/Judah by 70 A.D., these are the "gits that He took with Him to heaven."
This fig tree parable was for the 30 - 70 A.D. crowd in Israel. Evenso, know that the end is near, He said to them, please, save yourselves!
That’s all the Lord God Jeshua-Jesus was saying with that “fig parable” in my opinion.
God bless, BORN AGAIN in the USA by the ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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epouraniois
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Althought the Bible does state the hour and the day, no man knows, we read nothing of not knowing the year or the season, specifically, this parable of a fig tree is the ONLY parable bearing the instruction to 'learn' (it), and Israel is likened to a tree in both the old and new testaments, and specifically a fig tree in the OT, wherein, imo, the gentiles (nations) are trodding down Jerusalem to this very day;
Jer 24:1 The LORD showed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the LORD...
er 24:2 One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs...
Jer 24:4 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Jer 24:5 Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good.
Jer 24:6 For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up.
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BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois, I was wondering where you were--I figured "you wuz tired of trifling with us peons", but it was your DNS cache. go figure.
HFHS, Personally, if it were a matter of starting to count from some point, I would start to count from 1967 and not from 1948 since presumably Jerusalem was trodden down by the Gentiles until 1967 when the Israel Defense Forces finally took Jerusalem in 1967.
If the time of the Gentiles ended in 1967, one other time in the Bible is "the time of the end".
But whether there is any need to count from either 1948 OR even 1967, I don't know that. "No man knows the hour or the day." Both 1948 and 1967 may be irrelevant to the rapture and the Second Coming of Christ.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
BA, where do you think that we are today on the prophetic calandar?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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epouraniois
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Not that I believe in any rapture theory, but I agree that 70 years is one of the figures which make up a Biblical 'generation', and the only one which people would both 'know' and 'see' (Mat. 24. 32, 33). Adding to this, the last week was a week of days, which was fulfilled, for the Christ and Lord Jesus was certainly not on the earth for a week of years, which leads into another thread...
From my poorly lit observations, from the TV ministries that pass by the channels on my way to other stations, the pre-tribers have been saying the great tribulation has already begun, then go on to quote Mathew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, seemingly unawares that they are (at the same time) saying they will fly away before any of these things begin. Go figure?
Isa 66:7
Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
Isa 66:8
Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
But mainly, I wanted to tell you that I had not been able to log in for the last while (week or 2), due to a corrupt DNS cache. So if there are any specific issues which I could now address, please make me aware, as I have so missed fellowshipping with Bible Students such as you and the others here in this great study zone.
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BORN AGAIN
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Back in the 1960s and 1970s, Hal Lindsey was the number one proponent that the newly formed Israel in 1948 would be the starting point for a countdown of "the generation that would see all these things come to pass."
The idea was first, and for many it still is, that the generation which was alive following this 1948 date would get to see "all these things come to pass."
But then in 1967, the Israeli Defense Forces retook Jerusalem and freed Jerusalem from Gentile domination for the first time since the Chaldean Babylonians.
And so from 1967, it became possible that the generation alive following the 1967 date would be the generation which would see "all these things come to pass."
Let me assume for the sake of discussion that a generation is a maximum of 80 years:
Psalm 90
10 The days of our years are 70 years; but if by reason of strength they be 80 years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.
If I assume a generation to be 80 years, if one were to add 1948 plus 80 = 2028 by which all these things would have to be fulfilled.
But those Christians who propose that they will leave the earth in a rapture at the start of a 7-year tribulation period, they of course only have until 2021 (2028 - 7 = 2021) before they must "fly away."
It is now 2006, which leaves just 15 years until 2021 before these pre-tribulation rapture proponents must leave the planet at the latest.
If I assume that a generation is 70 years, which seems more likely since the 80-year generation is by reason of strength only, then we have 1948 plus 70 = 2018.
That means that the Christians who propose that they would leave in a rapture at the start of a 7-year tribulation period, would have until 2011 to leave the planet at the latest (2018 - 7 = 2011).
It is now 2006, so that leaves them only 5 more years before they must leave the planet at the latest.
My question to the Christians who believe that 1948 is the date from which they are supposed to start counting the generation which would see "all these things come to pass", these Christians only have either 5 or 15 more years left before they have to leave[/b] the planet in a rapture.
My question is, "At what point will these Christians (who believe in a rapture at the start of a 7-year tribulation) concede that the year 1948 cannot have been the date from which to start counting their generation"?
In the year 2012, or 71 years after 1948 and only 6 years from now, will you concede that something is wrong with your pretrib theology?
In the year 2022 or 81 years after 1948 and only 16 years from now, will you concede that something is wrong with your pretrib theology?
And since your 80-year generation would then have passed, would you then switch to the 1967 date from which to start counting this generation which would see "all these things come to pass" to give your theology more breathing room?
God bless everyone on this CBBS, BORN AGAIN
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