|
Author
|
Topic: Why I don't always use the KJV
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pleasemaranatha:
Hardcore,
Some young christians would not eat and then starve if they only had KJV to read. I know people who aren't as educated as they would like to be. They gave up reading the KJV, it wasn't because they were lazy. (I am glad they aren't here to be insulted.) Now they read other easier versions of the bible. Maybe soon they can understand the KJV. They are young in the LOrd. God supplied milk instead of a huge meal at home. When they hear from God He doesn't talk in thees and thous either. God talks to them sweetly and lovingly so they can feel His love as their relationship grows. God wants them to read His word even if it isn't in the KJV. The Holy Spirit will teach them sufficiently. He did a great job with teaching before there were any bibles created. God Bless
Joyce, I believe the Holy Spirit has given you a beautiful and perfect summation to this thread. There is nothing I could add to it. ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
God Bless your faithfulness.
IP: Logged | 
|
|
hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pleasemaranatha:
Hardcore,
Some young christians would not eat and then starve if they only had KJV to read. I know people who aren't as educated as they would like to be. They gave up reading the KJV, it wasn't because they were lazy. (I am glad they aren't here to be insulted.) Now they read other easier versions of the bible. Maybe soon they can understand the KJV. They are young in the LOrd. God supplied milk instead of a huge meal at home. When they hear from God He doesn't talk in thees and thous either. God talks to them sweetly and lovingly so they can feel His love as their relationship grows. God wants them to read His word even if it isn't in the KJV. The Holy Spirit will teach them sufficiently. He did a great job with teaching before there were any bibles created.
God Bless
Sorry. But I don't buy this for a minute. I went to a church for many years where the KJV was preached from the pulpit to a congregation of all ages. The KJV was used in Sunday school classes and bible study groups. Not because it was required, but because it was preferred. Those kids didn't have any problem with it at all. Someone posted earlier about giving the kids more credit. I agree.
God doesn't need help reaching people with a watered down version of the bible (or big screens, rock bands, and coffee houses).
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Pleasemaranatha
Advanced Member
Member # 5150
|
posted
Hardcore,
Some young christians would not eat and then starve if they only had KJV to read. I know people who aren't as educated as they would like to be. They gave up reading the KJV, it wasn't because they were lazy. (I am glad they aren't here to be insulted.) Now they read other easier versions of the bible. Maybe soon they can understand the KJV. They are young in the LOrd. God supplied milk instead of a huge meal at home. When they hear from God He doesn't talk in thees and thous either. God talks to them sweetly and lovingly so they can feel His love as their relationship grows. God wants them to read His word even if it isn't in the KJV. The Holy Spirit will teach them sufficiently. He did a great job with teaching before there were any bibles created.
God Bless
--------------------
My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning. Psalms 130 verse 6
Joyce
Posts: 308 | From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by timberwolf:
I've been reading some of the post here about differant Bibles. I personally use both the KJV, and the NIV and compare them to each other as I study. quote:
quote:
I have found some discrepencies but none worth complaing about. The word is still the same. I do prefer to read and study the NIV Bible better because it clairifies each verse for you without all the dificulties of long searches.
The KJV Bible however has the power and authority behind most of the verses such as, 2 Tim. 1:7 KJV reads, "For God did not give us the Spirit of fear, but a Spirit of power, love, and sound mind."
The NIV reads 2 Tim. 1:7, "For God did not give us the Spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love, and of self discipline." The NIV seems to take away the authority and power of God word.
The spirit of fear has nothing to do with the spirit of timidity. to me it took the power away from the word. When Im' using a scripture for power and authority then I refer to the KJV Bible.
You make a valid and very good point. This is one of the biggest problems with the NIV (Nearly Inerrant Version).
I really think a lot of the kicking and screaming over using the KJV comes down to laziness. Let's face it. We live in a fast food generation.
We'd rather go thru McDonalds because it's fast and cheap, even though we know darn good and well that it's not good for us at all.
Some will continue eating at McDonalds until they weigh 400 lbs and have all kinds of other health problems because of it.
Some will eat vegetables and lean meat and stay healthy.
KJV = nutritious meal
Other versions = fast food meal
Each one of us has to make our own decision and live with the consequences.
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
Please accept my apology HisGrace, I understood the preacher's wife to also be a preacher because she gave the eisegesis of Hannah that you posted on a Christian TV show.
quote:
Everyone assumes that just because I have given comments in the past from WOF'ers that I take all of my information from nothing but that type of programme.
I have made no such assumption.
The testimony that God worked in thier lives to bring her sons to repentance is wonderful; her manipulating the scripture to fit her experience stating that Hannah had enough and decided to stop being a victim, stand up and get tough with the devil is not wonderful; it is not supported by the scripture and that is not wonderful as it causes the one hearing said eisegesis to miss what is said in the scipture.
Neither is it wonderfuil to use such a manipulation of the scripture to forward the popular but unscriptural teaching that the church is here to get tough with the devil and put him in his place and all we need do to get God to give us our desires is get bold with him in our prayers.
I am truly truly sorry that you do not get that, but I know that there is nothing more that I can say that you might get that, so again now in this thread, as in the other, I have to say to you, that I have nothing more of value to say here that has not been said.
I really hope that you will not make any more mis-statements about others here like the one you made stating that people were questioning your salvation because I would then have to step in and give witness to the contrary, but past that I do not desire to argue with you. If there is anything more of value to be added to this thread it will need to be added by someone other than me.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I dont feel that you were twisting scripture; I felt that the TV preacher whose eisegesis you posted was manipulating scripture.
Everyone assumes that just because I have given comments in the past from WOF'ers that I take all of my information from nothing but that type of programme. The guest was on a Canadian Christian programme and wasn't a preacher, but a once-hurting mother whose two sons were heavily into drugs, with one even dealing and trafficking to Rhode Island.
She strongly identified with Hannah's story, and it helped her immensely, with the result that their lives were totally turned around by her bold prayers and taking charge.
How can anyone begin to argue with such a powerful testimony?? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
IP: Logged |
|
|
timberwolf
New Member
Member # 5510
|
posted
I've been reading some of the post here about differant Bibles. I personally use both the KJV, and the NIV and compare them to each other as I study. quote:
quote:
I have found some discrepencies but none worth complaing about. The word is still the same. I do prefer to read and study the NIV Bible better because it clairifies each verse for you without all the dificulties of long searches.
The KJV Bible however has the power and authority behind most of the verses such as, 2 Tim. 1:7 KJV reads, "For God did not give us the Spirit of fear, but a Spirit of power, love, and sound mind."
The NIV reads 2 Tim. 1:7, "For God did not give us the Spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love, and of self discipline." The NIV seems to take away the authority and power of God word.
The spirit of fear has nothing to do with the spirit of timidity. to me it took the power away from the word. When Im' using a scripture for power and authority then I refer to the KJV Bible.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
No one has questioned your salvation HisGrace, just your cavalier attitude about the Word of God and preference for eisegesis of scripture based on personal experinces as opposed to hermeneutically sound exegesis of scripture, as evidenced by statements like this one:
quote:
What does it matter who is a descendant of whom, how many pilgrimages they made or what wonderful bounties they had? I am talking about a hurting, barren woman who year after year had to listen to the taunts of her 'rival', until her spirit became very broken.
It mattered enough to God to place those details there!
and this one:
quote:
Why should we have to debate about whether or not the scriptures should use "stood up" or "rose up"? I find that when we get off into these tangents, the pure and powerful message of the story becomes contaminated with ruffled feathers on both sides. Rather, why can't fellow believers come along with their own personal take on the story, rather than trying to pick holes and tell the author of the thread that they are twisting and manipulating the scriptures?
I dont feel that you were twisting scripture; I felt that the TV preacher whose eisegesis you posted was manipulating scripture, and I did give my take verse by verse, but because you did not agree with my take you got your feathers ruffled. My feathers are not now nor have they been throughout this discussion ruffled. There is no reason for them to be. You could have used the scripture to point out any error that I might have made and I would not have been able to do anything but say thank you for showing me that because it is HIS take that I am interested in.
I think that there is no one here who has spoken that does not understand that it is not our place to question anyone's salvation. Most of these folks know the Bible very well.
Additionally, I concur with Hardcore in that none here feels that the KJV is more spiritual; some of us do feel that it is more accurate in that it is word for word translation, which allows to study what God meant when he gave the text and not what we want the text to say.
This keeps us from error such as taking a word like "arise" and making it to mean that she stood up to and got tough with the devil, when word litterally means arise and the text contextually shows that arise is the correct meaning in that she raised herself up from her seated position at the dinner table and went to pray, thus resisting the devil's attempts to provoke her to sin in anger.
Like hardcore said:
quote:
I guess it depends on whether you want to discuss your story or God's.
Getting the word's right is kind of important if you care at all about what God's message is. It does matter!!!
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Many would rather live by every word that procedeth out of the mouths of the faces on their TV screen. We know this is true because we can see them flock in droves for seats in the audience at the next camp meeting.
Few are found with lamps full of oil in the wee hours pouring over an open Bible.
But then the scripture said it would be this way:
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
I don't recall anyone ever questioning your salvation, or anyone else's for that matter.
No comment.
IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
However, because of the abundance of "extra" words in a paraphrase Bible, one party cannot use a paraphrase Bible while another party uses a translation Bible and then still expect "agreement" to be the result.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
I am a hard time understanding what you mean by 'extra words'. These are a couple of scriptues that I have picked at random. using my favourite versions.
Gen. 20:16 (KJV) So Abraham prayed unto God: and God healed Abimelech, and his wife, and his maidservants; and they bare children.
Genesis 20:16 New International Version (NIV)
Then Abraham prayed to God, and God healed Abimelech, his wife and his slave girls so they could have children again,
Genesis 20:16 New Living Translation (NLT)
Then Abraham prayed to God, and God healed Abimelech, his wife, and the other women of the household, so they could have children.
~~~~~~~~
Genesis 12:1 King James Version (KJV)
Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Genesis 12:1 New International Version (NIV)
The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you.
Genesis 12:1 New Living Translation (NLT)
Then the LORD told Abram, "Leave your country, your relatives, and your father's house, and go to the land that I will show you
IP: Logged |
|
|
hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
Great post Chaplain Bob - thanks for that. It seems sometimes one's salvation is questioned because we don't use the Bible of choice that others feel is more spiritual.
Seems like you're being a little disingenuous here.
I don't recall anyone ever questioning your salvation, or anyone else's for that matter.
And no one said the KJV was more spiritual, just more accurate.
Use whatever bible or paraphrased story that you want. But buyer beware ... you get what you pay for.
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
HisGrace writes quote:
In the same way, we can receive discernment and insight from many different versions.
Yes, that is true and that has not been denied by me. I like reading the French and Spanish Bibles for "insight" reasons.
However, because of the abundance of "extra" words in a paraphrase Bible, one party cannot use a paraphrase Bible while another party uses a translation Bible and then still expect "a meeting of the minds" to be the result.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
IP: Logged |
|
|
hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
HisGrace signed off with: "Don't continue to attach yourself to anything that hurts God."
sister hardcore answered HisGrace
"I would think this would include false teaching, bad bible translations and paraphrased "bible" versions."
quote:
HisGrace:
That quote is my signature. It wasn't my intent to use it as part of this thread.
Yes. I did realize that.
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
We don't always have a word in English that means the same in Greek. Often you hear a preacher say " Now the Greek word for '---' is ---" and means something entirely different than what we would define in English. Translators would have to work around these many differences to interpret.
Sometimes one word in English can have five different words in Hebrew or Greek to have the same meaning.
In the same way, we can receive discernment and insight from many different versions.
IP: Logged |
|
|
hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
HisGrace signed off with: quote:
"Don't continue to attach yourself to anything that hurts God."
sister hardcore answered HisGrace quote:
I would think this would include false teaching, bad bible translations and paraphrased "bible" versions.
com'on, hardcore, many people have been saved by reading paraphrased Bible versions.
God can use anything or anyone He wants to reach someone, but that doesn't mean that the "anything" or "anyone" He uses is okay. God may use a false teacher in spite of himself, but that doesn't mean that it's okay to be a false teacher.
quote:
BornAgain:
A paraphrased Bible may not be suitable for discussions over the "niceties" and "details of doctrine" with which we can pass the time at the LORD's table, but the LORD will use almost ANY clean method to bring salvation to individuals, including paraphrased Bibles.
Personally, I don't think a paraphrased bible is suitable for anything except lining the bottom of a birdcage. At best, it glosses over God's intended message; at worst, it misses the message completely. We've just seen proof of that on this board very recently, although some are reticent to admit it.
quote:
BornAgain:
I'm sure that the Devil is just as furious about paraphrased Bibles as he is about ANY Bible. They're all potentially dangerous to his health.
Actually, I'm not so sure about that, although I understand where you're coming from. If Satan can get Christians to water down God's Word, that's a victory for him.
It really comes down to how seriously we're going to take God and His Word.
How much reverence do we really have for our Lord?
Do we really care about what He has to say or would we rather just blow through it for an easy read?
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
sister HisGrace writes quote:
Aren't all English Bibles paraphrased from the original Greek and/or Hebrew? I don't think just because some use thee and thou, it makes them any more authentic??
No, sister. A translation and a paraphrase are two diff things.
A translation tries to adhere as closely as possible to the words being translated, as much "word for word" as is possible while still making proper sense in the new language.
A paraphrase takes much greater liberty than a translation and expresses the IDEAS of the original text, but does not bother to follow the specific words in the original text closely.
For example, I would be paraphrasing if I tried to quote a verse from the Bible but I could not remember exactly how the verse went and I might say that "my paraphrase of the verse goes something like this", expressing the IDEA but not the actual words.
As for the Tudor English "thee" and "thou" of the KJV, they do NOT make the KJV more authentic. One can substitute "you" and "your" for those. But what DOES make the KJV a translation (and not a paraphrase) is that the KJV tries to add only those extra words necessary to make sense in English, and even then the added words are usually italicized to alert the reader that those words are NOT ACTUALLY in the original text.
A paraphrase makes no pretense of following the actual underlying words, but only tries to recreate the basic message of a verse or group of verses, somewhat irrespective of how many words it may take to do that and without alerting the reader which words are added to recreate that basic message.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
Hello HisGrace:
No need to explain why you use a translation other than the KJV. That's a little like explaining why you drive a Ford Escort rather than a Model T. Either one will get you there but the Escort will get you there faster with little trouble. I started out on the KJV decades ago but eventually got tired of "translating the translation" and now use the Contemporary English Version. No one (not even the British) use the English found in the KJV today. I still get annoyed at a preacher who uses the KJV and spends valuable teaching time translating the translation.
Great post Chaplain Bob - thanks for that. It seems sometimes one's salvation is questioned because we don't use the Bible of choice that others feel is more spiritual.
IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
HisGrace signed off with: "Don't continue to attach yourself to anything that hurts God."
sister hardcore answered HisGrace quote:
I would think this would include false teaching, bad bible translations and paraphrased "bible" versions.
That quote is my signature. It wasn't my intent to use it as part of this thread.
quote:
From BORN AGAIN -A paraphrased Bible may not be suitable for discussions over the "niceties" and "details of doctrine" with which we can pass the time at the LORD's table, but the LORD will use almost ANY clean method to bring salvation to individuals, including paraphrased Bibles.
I'm sure that the Devil is just as furious about paraphrased Bibles as he is about ANY Bible. They're all potentially dangerous to his health.
"Paraphrase - to express the same message in different words."
Aren't all English Bibles paraphrased from the original Greek and/or Hebrew? I don't think just because some use thee and thou, it makes them any more authentic??
IP: Logged |
|
|
Miguel
Advanced Member
Member # 47
|
posted
quote:
All Those Thee's and Thou's
Have you ever heard any one say "I can't understand that ol' King James Bible with all those thee's and thou's. The young people really need something easier to understand." Sure, all of us King James Bible believers have heard such remarks.
I think people who use such remarks highly under estimate the intelligence of our young people today. It is really not that complicated. If they can figure out all the high tech gadgets of modern society to day then this ought to be as easy as falling when you jump out of an airplane. Unfortunately many young people do not even try because an older generation has told them "it's hard to understand." It's not hard to understand, it's easy to understand. There are two rules to remember:
Rule #1:
The words that begin with "T" (thee, thou, thy and thine) are singular and refer to only one.
Rule #2:
The words that begin with "Y" (Ye, you, your, and yours) are plural and refer to two or more.
That's it, that's all there is to it. Now if you replace the second-person singular pronouns "thee and thou" with the word "you" then you are distorting the scriptures. This is exactly what is happening in the new modern versions and is not an accurate reflection of the way the words are used in the Hebrew and Greek.
You just can't beat the Elizabethan English that the King James Bible is written in. It's a pure beautiful language.
by Nic Kizziah
--------------------
Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Chaplain Bob
Advanced Member
Member # 5019
|
posted
Hello HisGrace:
No need to explain why you use a translation other than the KJV. That's a little like explaining why you drive a Ford Escort rather than a Model T. Either one will get you there but the Escort will get you there faster with little trouble. I started out on the KJV decades ago but eventually got tired of "translating the translation" and now use the Contemporary English Version. No one (not even the British) use the English found in the KJV today. I still get annoyed at a preacher who uses the KJV and spends valuable teaching time translating the translation.
--------------------
In His Service,
Bob Allen
Posts: 209 | From: Checotah, Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Miguel
Advanced Member
Member # 47
|
posted
The first one I always read is the KJV and the second one will be MKJV. I cant stay away from the romance of the " thee,thou,ye,coverest,thyself,believeth,abide.
![[rapture]](graemlins/rapture.gif)
--------------------
Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
HisGrace signed off with: quote:
"Don't continue to attach yourself to anything that hurts God."
sister hardcore answered HisGrace quote:
I would think this would include false teaching, bad bible translations and paraphrased "bible" versions.
com'on, hardcore, many people have been saved by reading paraphrased Bible versions.
The basic story of Jesus redeeming the lost through His death on the cross is in paraphrased Bibles and people can be and have been saved by paraphrased Bibles.
A paraphrased Bible may not be suitable for discussions over the "niceties" and "details of doctrine" with which we can pass the time at the LORD's table, but the LORD will use almost ANY clean method to bring salvation to individuals, including paraphrased Bibles.
I'm sure that the Devil is just as furious about paraphrased Bibles as he is about ANY Bible. They're all potentially dangerous to his health.
this little guy  may hurt himself, but paraphrased Bibles ![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif) "do not hurt God" or people ![[angel3]](graemlins/angel3.gif)
God bless, BORN AGAIN
IP: Logged |
|
|
hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
|
posted
quote:
"Don't continue to attach yourself to anything that hurts God."
I would think this would include false teaching, bad bible translations and paraphrased "bible" versions.
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
|
posted
His Grace:
Yes, it is very important to follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit, in order to be assured that nothing can take away the joy and peace of knowing that we are in the centre of his will.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The imperative is to follow His Word, as the true yardstick of truth and clarity. Too many who declare themselves as led by the spirit are teaching contrary to the Word, and leading others astray. It is not the Holy Spirit who deceives and teaches lies.
2 Timothy 3:
15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
The Believer should seek the purity and clarity of His Word, first and foremost, and then they will be far less likely to be led into error by the televised "dog and pony shows".
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
One who loves the Lord should seek the most pure clarity available, the closest rendering of His God-breathed Word of Truth.
Yes, it is very important to follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit, in order to be assured that nothing can take away the joy and peace of knowing that we are in the centre of his will. ![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif)
IP: Logged |
|
|
hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
It is amazing that anyone who seeks the Lord would desire to insulate themselves behind man-made layers of interpretation. One who loves the Lord should seek the most pure clarity available, the closest rendering of His God-breathed Word of Truth.
Of course if one steps out from behind their insulated layers, then they might have to confront the errors in their own personal theology.
Those in error do not want truth and clarity, because maybe it won't feel too good to see themselves, maybe it won't feel to good to see that their pet televangelists are teaching error, that in fact the Emporer has no clothes. Those in error so often are more interested in feel-good falsehood, then the Eternal Truth of God's Holy Word which is sharper then any two-edged sword.
You hit the nail right on the head Caretaker.
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
quote:
A Dynamic Equivalency is NOT a translation, but is a thought for thought rendering of a particular passage. It places not only the translating of the words, but the interpretation of the translation between the reader and God.
Oh thank you Drew, I knew there was a word for what I was trying to say and I could not for the life of me think of it. Dyanamic Equivalency vs Word for word translation!
Thank You!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
|
posted
http://www.spiritandtruth.org/questions/52.htm
As but one example of how the NIV suffers from misleading interpretation, consider how 1Cor. 7:36-38 compares between the NKJV, NASB, and NIV:
But if any man thinks he is behaving improperly toward his virgin, if she is past the flower of youth, and thus it must be, let him do what he wishes. He does not sin; let them marry. Nevertheless he who stands steadfast in his heart, having no necessity, but has power over his own will, and has so determined in his heart that he will keep his virgin, does well. So then he who gives [her] in marriage does well, but he who does not give [her] in marriage does better. (NKJV)
But if any man thinks that he is acting unbecomingly toward his virgin daughter, if she is past her youth, and if it must be so, let him do what he wishes, he does not sin; let her marry. But he who stands firm in his heart, being under no constraint, but has authority over his own will, and has decided this in his own heart, to keep his own virgin daughter, he will do well. So then both he who gives his own virgin daughter in marriage does well, and he who does not give her in marriage will do better. (NASB 95)
If anyone thinks he is acting improperly toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if she is getting along in years and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married. But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin-- this man also does the right thing. So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does even better. (NIV)
Notice how both the NKJV and NASB, which stick more closely to the the underlying Greek text, understand the discussion about the man and the virgin as a father-daughter relationship whereas the NIV clearly assumes it is an engaged couple. This difference comes about because the NIV interprets 'to keep' (in the Greek) as 'not to marry' and ekgamizo as 'to marry' when it actually means 'to give in marriage.' (The term for 'marry' is gameo as in Mtt. 5:32.) The result is that the NIV interprets the father of the bride as the bridegroom.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A Dynamic Equivalency is NOT a translation, but is a thought for thought rendering of a particular passage. It places not only the translating of the words, but the interpretation of the translation between the reader and God.
The NIV is not a word for word, but a dynamic equivalency. The Living Bible departs even further from any form of translation and uses more of a paraphrase.
Main Entry: 1para·phrase
Pronunciation: 'par-&-"frAz
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from Latin paraphrasis, from Greek, from paraphrazein to paraphrase, from para- + phrazein to point out
1 : a restatement of a text, passage, or work giving the meaning in another form
2 : the use or process of paraphrasing in studying or teaching composition
It is amazing that anyone who seeks the Lord would desire to insulate themselves behind man-made layers of interpretation. One who loves the Lord should seek the most pure clarity available, the closest rendering of His God-breathed Word of Truth.
Of course if one steps out from behind their insulated layers, then they might have to confront the errors in their own personal theology.
Those in error do not want truth and clarity, because maybe it won't feel too good to see themselves, maybe it won't feel to good to see that their pet televangelists are teaching error, that in fact the Emporer has no clothes. Those in error so often are more interested in feel-good falsehood, then the Eternal Truth of God's Holy Word which is sharper then any two-edged sword.
A word for word translation seeks to render the specific words of the Hebrew and Greek texts into the reader's language.
The KJV is a word for word translation, as are many of the other translations, NKJV, NAS, etc. If one truly loves the Lord, then they should be willing to pick up a closer rendering of His Word. Why should one desire to seek out filtrated error?
I am an old feller, and I prefer my old leatherbound King James. When I quote a verse from memory, I can be sure that it is there and the way I quoted it.
It is the same as my great-grandfather carried into the Methodist pulpit in the 1870's, the same as my praying grandmothers used for their 90+ years. It is the one which I learned to read from in my old two-room grade school, before they removed it from the classroom in 1964. Its just the one I can trust and feel comfortable with in substantiating the basic tenents of the Christian faith.
Like an old farm truck, it may look rough as a cob and not be as slick as the new ones, but it keeps taking me out to the pasture every day, so I just can't see trading it in.
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Disiple56:
If I'm not mistaken the NLT is a paraphrase rather than a translation. I still enjoy reading it from time to time.
I normally use the NIV, but lately I've been reading the King James Version because I got some really nice free Bible software from the internet.
Welcome to the Board Disiple56. Yes, we can learn much from each version.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Disiple56
New Member
Member # 5509
|
posted
If I'm not mistaken the NLT is a paraphrase rather than a translation. I still enjoy reading it from time to time.
I normally use the NIV, but lately I've been reading the King James Version because I got some really nice free Bible software from the internet.
Posts: 3 | From: Indiana | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
|
|
hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
|
posted
quote:
Why should we have to debate about whether or not the scriptures should use "stood up" or "rose up"? I find that when we get off into these tangents, the pure and powerful message of the story becomes contaminated with ruffled feathers on both sides. Rather, why can't fellow believers come along with their own personal take on the story, rather than trying to pick holes and tell the author of the thread that they are twisting and manipulating the scriptures?
I can't tell you how sad it is to see a Christian write the above. Everyone should have their "own personal take"? The author was manipulating scripture! And a board member here was led, and cared enough to explain how verse by verse.
I guess it depends on whether you want to discuss your story or God's.
Getting the word's right is kind of important if you care at all about what God's message is. It does matter!!!
Linda and Drew explained it quite nicely in the Hannah thread. Unfortunately, it seems to have been completely lost on you. I'm sure that their words did not totally fall on deaf ears though. Someone here benefitted. I know I did.
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
|
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
All I know is that the Living Bible has been a tremendous blessing to me for over 20 years, because it is very easy to understand.
My church uses the New International Version and I find it easy to understand too.
IP: Logged |
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
HisGrace, I realize that the Amplified is "like way expanded", but the New Living Translation also has a conversational style of writing to it which also requires the addition of a considerable number of extra words, does it not? Much less so than the Amplified, but nonetheless also expanded into "conversational style", right?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
HisGrace writes quote:
I have never noticed that the NLT put in extra words BORN AGAIN?? Maybe you could explain.
My bad. I thought the NLT referred to a "living Bible" type of Bible, for it had seemed to me that you were quoting from a "more expanded" type of Bible in your discussion with HFHS.
What is the NLT? And what were you quoting from again?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
I was quoting from the New Living Translation. The Amplified is the only 'more expanded' type of Bible that I know of. When I put brackets, they were my own comments.
IP: Logged |
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
HisGrace writes quote:
I have never noticed that the NLT put in extra words BORN AGAIN?? Maybe you could explain.
My bad. I thought the NLT referred to a "living Bible" type of Bible, for it had seemed to me that you were quoting from a "more expanded" type of Bible in your discussion with HFHS.
What is the NLT? And what were you quoting from again?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
IP: Logged |
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
HisGrace writes quote:
I have never noticed that the NLT put in extra words BORN AGAIN?? Maybe you could explain.
My bad. I thought the NLT meant a "living Bible" type of Bible. What is the NLT, then?
But it had seemed that you were quoting from a more "loosely" translated Bible, was that not true?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
however, when discussing matters of doctrine with a seasoned Christian like helpforhomeschoolers[/b], it would be helpful for both of you to fish "temporarily from the same book" {in this case the tighter KJV or perhaps NIV} so that it's easier to come to an agreement and not have to wonder each time, "where did those extra words come from such as are in the NLT?; they're not in MY Bible?"
Why should we have to debate about whether or not the scriptures should use "stood up" or "rose up"? I find that when we get off into these tangents, the pure and powerful message of the story becomes contaminated with ruffled feathers on both sides. Rather, why can't fellow believers come along with their own personal take on the story, rather than trying to pick holes and tell the author of the thread that they are twisting and manipulating the scriptures?
quote:
BTW, I think there is quite a bit of diff between "worthy portion" and a "double portion". Just ask the IRS.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
![[roll on floor]](graemlins/6.gif) Hey BORN AGAIN, maybe that helps prove my point that 'double portion' has a stronger meaning than 'worthy portion.' I am sure the IRS would love to have a double portion. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Oh yes, we know all about taxes in Canada. The minute we go to the cash they take 15% tax,(Provincial and Federal combined)off of the top. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
I have never noticed that the NLT put in extra words BORN AGAIN?? Maybe you could explain.
IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
quote:
BTW, I think there is quite a bit of diff between "worthy portion" and a "double portion". Just ask the IRS.
I have been working on my taxes! maybe that is it! ![[pound]](graemlins/pound.gif) Wait! HisGrace is a Canadian! We know nothing about taxes here,Canadians know about taxes! Maybe a worthy portion is a double portion in Canada?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
Interesting point, HisGrace; the Lord Jeshua-Jesus did NOT say to us, "Follow Me and I will make you debaters of doctrine among men".
He said, "Follow Me and I will make you fishers of men." Fishing is definitely different than debating the finer points of the Bible.
I can agree that you can put on your hook whatever bait you think might catch someone's interest; I tend to clean the KJV up into modern English for my own bait on my hook for similar reasons.
I can see using the NLT (which does seem amplified to me, your denial notwithstanding), for bait, and we can "talk KJV later."
keep hanging that line in the water, sister; who knows what bait will attract what fish?
however, when discussing matters of doctrine with a seasoned Christian like helpforhomeschoolers, it would be helpful for both of you to fish "temporarily from the same book" {in this case the tighter KJV or perhaps NIV} so that it's easier to come to an agreement and not have to wonder each time, "where did those extra words come from such as are in the NLT?; they're not in MY Bible?"
BTW, I think there is quite a bit of diff between "worthy portion" and a "double portion". Just ask the IRS.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
IP: Logged |
|
|
saved1948
Advanced Member
Member # 5391
|
posted
Usually use the NIV because the KJV is so hard to understand.<><
--------------------
John 3:16+6\[/p..................For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,that whoever believed in Him should not perish but have everlasting life
Posts: 52 | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
I will occasionally read other versions too. If I am just reading for pleasure... like you were reading a book.
I like the KJV for study because it uses a word for word translation as opposed to a verse for verse one.
I cant think at the moment what that is called. Maybe drew or someone will know. I also tend to find the KJV easier to memorize.
I think we under estimate the power of the Holy Spirit to teach baby Christians and non believers... the power is in HIS words not in our ability or adeptness to teach or whether there are thee's and thou's. When HIS words and not man's but HIS words are heard in the ears of one he has given to hear, they hear whether it is KJ english or Swaheli
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
We don't know how far-reaching our influence goes whenever we post on message boards. Seasoned Christians may clue into a lot of the thees and thous that are used in the scriptures, but I believe in trying to teach and mentor baby Christians and non-believers.
I usually go into biblegateway.com to bring up the scriptures and frequently compare the NIV, NLT and KJV versions. I like them all and they all say basically the same thing. If I find a scripture in the KJV too difficult to understand I will lean towards the other two versions.
Example in point. This is from the Hannah story we have just studied.
1 Samuel 1:6,7 KJV And her adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret, because the LORD had shut up her womb.
And as HE did so year by year, when she went up to the house of the LORD, so SHE provoked her; therefore she wept, and did not eat.
~To a seasoned Christian, we can pick up what this means, but to someone else, they may question why 'he' is put in one section, then 'she' put later in the same verse??
The NIV
1 Samuel 1:6,7 And because the LORD had closed her womb, her rival kept provoking her in order to irritate her. This went on year after year. Whenever Hannah went up to the house of the LORD, her rival provoked her till she wept and would not eat.
We know that the adversary is the devil. We also know that the devil was using his craftiness through the flesh in the physical realm. Therefore Hanneh's adversary would also be her rival, Peninnah. No difference in the basic meaning of the two versions, just more clearly stated in the NIV.
IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
