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Topic: Who is supposed to provoke Israel to jealousy?
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epouraniois
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Proselyte
PROS'ELYTE, n. [Gr. to come.] A new convert to some religion or religious sect, or to some particular opinion, system or party.
Biblically, a Gentile converted to Judaism is a proselyte. No other group is referred to by this term but gentile converts into Judaism.
But those gentiles who stood outside the middle wall of partition were not proselytes,they were not converts to Judaism, taking on the burden of the laws of Judaism.
Act 13:43
Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
Act 13:45
But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
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yahsway
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Quote from BA.
"Are there not also true gentile proselyte believers to the faith of Jesus?"
Yes, just as there has always been true gentile proselytes into the faith of Judaisim.
Quote BA: "So while among the Nations, Ephraim-Israel look like Gentiles?"
Well lets see, what does a Gentile "look" like? Or better asked, what does a gentile "Act" like? Yes, Ephraim was swallowed up among the Nations of the world, considering the Law "a strange thing." Nothing about them then or now looks or acts like Judah/Israel.
At one time the "whole house" of Israel, all 12 tribes were under one kingdom with David/Solomon as kings. But after the 10 tribed Northern kingdom was scattered, they ceased being a "kingdom" but did not cease being peoples.
When the Judah,Benjamin, Levi came back to Judea after their Babylonian captivity, they became known as Jews, and today they have a Nation/Country since 1948 called Israel. And no matter where the Jews are at in the world, they have a place/land to call home.
But Ephriam does not. Ephraim/Israel is still out among all the Nations. The descendants of Ephraim were to become a "melo" of Gentiles. And the truth of Jesus the Christ is preached unto all the nations in which they(Ephraim/Israel/Gentiles) were scattered, to bring in the lost house of the sheep of Israel.
So how does one provoke Judah/Israel to have what we as believers have? Well certainly it would not be thru such things as the Inquisitions, The Crusaders, The Holocost(which by the way Hitler used Martin Luthers writings and sayings about the Jews to defend his own agenda)the KKK and other things done in the name of Christianity. And it would be the spirit of the anti-christ to say that we should not take the message to them(Jews) of who Jesus the Christ is as many preachers have said we should not do.
I believe one of the answers is in the parable of the prodical son. Read tis and see what the Spirit of god speaks to you concerning this parable. shalom
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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epouraniois
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Jealousy is also translated emulation, and it is not the same as the English Webster definition of jealousy:
G3863
παραζηλόω
parazēloō
par-ad-zay-lo'-o
From G3844 and G2206; to stimulate alongside, that is, excite to rivalry: - provoke to emulation (jealousy).
They were provoked by those gentiles by the fact that the gentiles could receive the teachings of Jesus Chirst crucified and ascended without having to partake of the law and having to be circumcized.
Israel was pretty peeved about that. They had to take on the full burden of the law so that they could receive the knowledge of the Lord. But here are these non Jews getting to learn about God without having to pay the price that Israel had to bear.
In the parable, some only worked for an hour, but got the full days pay. Think about it.
And this was because Israel was not bearing the fruit. They did not believe. There were probably less than 10,000 Jews that believed, and the Lord was looking for national repentance, not individual overcomers. But God knew that Israel would go into her period of blindness, and thus, a remnant would be saved, saved as overcomers that is.
Saved into the heavenly Jerusalem, whereas the non overcomers will never be in that city, but by covenant they will inherit the earth and all the nations, in resurrection, shall see that the Lord is their God.
The second aspect of this story, is that the Israelites themselves denied Christ as King, as Prophet, and as priest in Mathew 12. WELL, this led to the fulfillment of prophecy that the Lord would then speak only in parables to the multitude.
And it is this fulfillment which leads the Lord to quote Isaiah 6. 9-10, which was the forrunner of the final quoting of that dreadful passage pronounced upon them at the end of the Acts.
In this, they filled up their sins to the uttermost.
They were pronounced judiciously blinded, and have been blind to the truth ever since.
Sure, just like most all Christians, who are also blind to the truth, some have accepted the fact that Jesus Christ is the Lord, but do not accept the fact that a new revelation was give to Paul, called the mystery, where the church is revealed for the first time.
The Jews refuse to leave their seperatness as well as the Christians, failing to understand what is written after Acts. Failing to even exercise a willingness to study it, and yet, the inspired apostle tells us that it is this last revelation which completes the word of God.
So who is provoking Israel now. No one. They were judiciously blinded. That is their sentence. It was carried out a long, long, time ago.
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BORN AGAIN
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sister yahsway, you say Ephraim. In Hosea it says that Ephraim-Israel will be "lo ammi":
Hosea 1:9
Then said God, Call his name Lo-ammi: for you are not My people, and I will not be your God.
Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, You are not my people, there it shall be said to them, You are the sons of the living God.
Now look at the following:
Deuteronomy 32:21
They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those who are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
Note that God will move Israel to jealousy with those "who are not a people". Do you think that this applies only to Lo-ammi then which is Ephraim-Israel mixed among the nations?
Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, You are not my people, there it shall be said to them, You are the sons of the living God.
These people are also called "You are the sons of the Living God". This is also said about Christians.
Are we saying that all Christians are descendants of the house of Ephraim-Israel?
Are there not also true Gentile proselyte believers to the faith of Jesus. Yes, I think so.
But it would be interesting if the LORD made Judah/Benjamin/Levi through whom the Messiah Yahshua-Jesus came, but "He came unto His own but His own received Him not", meaning Judah/Benjamin/Levi received Him not:
John 1:11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
So is the Lord now making Judah/Benjamin/Levi jealous by causing the house of Ephraim-Israel
who are not my people to become sons of the Living God while among the nations and thus will the LORD make Judah/Benjamin/Levi jealous for failing their appointed task?
Deuteronomy 32:21
They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those who are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
Paul did say that he was "going to the Gentiles":
Acts 13:46
Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing you put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, look, we turn to the Gentiles.
It is further said in the OT that while Eprhaim was mixed among the nations, Ephraim would "not remember her paths", i.e., would not remember where Ephraim had come from, i.e., would not remember that he was Ephraim while among the nations:
Hosea 2:6
Therefore, behold, I will hedge up your way with thorns, and make a wall that she shall not find her paths.
So while among the nations, Ephraim-Israel look like Gentiles?
But is this true? Is it not rather true that, Judah/Benjamin/Levi at least, looked conspicuously like Jews? Yes, like Jews. But Jews are only from the southern kingdom, never from the northern kingdom of Ephraim-Israel.
Interesting.
May the God of Israel bless all who participate, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
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BORN AGAIN
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hello, sister yahsway, okay, Ephraim and his companions the children of Israel are currently mixed in among the nations but Judah/Benjamin/Levi is also mixed among the nations?
Ephraim refers to the house of Israel, to the 10-tribed northern kingdom of Israel that was taken captive by Assyria in 722-721 B.C. and eventually made it, most likely, into the wilds of Europe after Nineveh fell.
But okay, you say Ephraim and his companions.
But how is Ephraim in the nations making Israel jealous?
And is Ephraim in the nations making Israel jealous now, or later?
what time period do you have in mind, yahsway, for this "provoking to jealousy" of Israel?
I certainly don't see any Israel getting jealous yet, do you?
bless the God of Israel, BORN AGAIN
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yahsway
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Ephraim!
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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BORN AGAIN
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In a recent discussion with epouraniois, he proposed/asserted that the Gentiles surrounding the synagogues where Paul came to preach are the Gentiles whom God used for about 18 years to "provoke Israel to jealousy", and that, when that did not work, the Lord and Paul said, "henceforth I go to the Gentiles."
I had always thought that it was the church which was provoking Israel to jealousy during the church age, but in a way that does not make much sense since the house of Israel and the house of Judah are currently mixed in among the Gentiles so in what way is the church "making Israel jealous" when the house of Israel and the house of Judah are still mixed among the nations?
And if the Isrealis in the land of Israel since 1948 are meant to be provoked to jealousy by someone, then provoking these Israelis to jealousy cannot have started until 1948 by the church.
Currently the church is a mostly Gentile church. Are the Gentile Christian tourists provoking the Israel to jealousy after 1948. Is there any evidence for that idea?
Romans 11:11
I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Deuteronomy 32:21
They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those who are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
Acts 13:46
Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, look, we turn to the Gentiles.
1 Thessalonians 2:16
Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
So who do you think is supposed to "provoke Israel to jealousy?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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