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Topic: bless them and not curse them, is this still true for Christians, or not?
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Isaiah
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Member # 6699
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Whoah now -some good points, but let's be specific.....
The descendents of only ONE of Abraham's grandsons was Israel (descended from Isaac's son Jacob -who was renamed Israel).
Abraham had other sons and grandsons who also became great in the earth -some of whom now want to blow Israel off the globe! Many who fight each other for Jerusalem today ARE ALL CHILDREN OF ABRAHAM. What was said to Abraham applied even to these.
As followers of Christ, we should bless EVERYONE -even those who would call themselves our enemies. We should return blessing for cursing, good for evil.
HOWEVER....
I understand what you meant and it is a VERY important topic today.
Jerusalem has become a political hot potato, so to speak -or as the bible states it... though it has not yet fully come to pass...
Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
It would take much for many to believe the following, though it can be researched and proven -but....
The nation on the map called Israel today is Judah in prophecy. Not all people of the tribe of Judah reside there, but they are primarily of the house of Judah -that is Judah, Benjamin and some Levites. The other house (when Israel split into two houses due to civil war) is called the house of Israel -which many today refer to as the 'lost ten tribes'. God did not lose them -he prophesied what would happen to them....
Amo 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
They also lost the original language and even the knowledge, to a great extent, of their own identity...
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 1:3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
However.... they were promised certain things in the old testament, and God kept his word. They were sifted through the nations, eventually settling in their birthright lands -becoming great nations for multitude as the sand of the seashore,etc... Two of these were Ephraim and Menasseh.
Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
Gen 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
Ehpraim and Menasseh in prophecy for today are Britain and the United States respectively. They are the two eagles mentioned in Ezekiel 17 -a chapter which outlines in riddle and parable the migration of the house of Israel parallel to that of the Assyrian (Eze 31:3). The U.S. is the first..
"A great eagle with great wings, longwinged, full of feathers, which had divers colours". Britain is the second.
There is much more to this story, but for our purposes....
What we see today is Ephraim and Menasseh slowly leaving Judah out in the cold -a wedge is being driven between them, and none will fare well.
Or -as the bible puts it....
Isa 9:21 Manasseh, Ephraim; and Ephraim, Manasseh: and they together shall be against Judah. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
and...
Hos 5:13 When Ephraim saw his sickness, and Judah saw his wound, then went Ephraim to the Assyrian, and sent to king Jareb: yet could he not heal you, nor cure you of your wound.
http://www.kc3.co.uk/~dt/eu_army.htm
MANY nations ought to take note -as.....
Isa 10:7 Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few.
God has never stopped working with all of Israel, and he will save Judah first -but those who rule the earth with him as immortal spirit beings will be of every tribe on earth.
Isa 10:24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt.
Isa 10:25 For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction.
Zec 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
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yeshuaslavejeff
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Member # 4506
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posted
The time of the gentiles is close.
Now is the time of Israel to be restored to Life.
As soon as, (in the very same instant!) -
they all with one heart cry out "Blessed is He Who comes in the Name of Adonai ! "
then
the Master returns to earth at once to rule with those who have given their life for Him.
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1Peter4:1,2 Yeshua suffered physical suffering:disciples have same mind/ willingness to share shame/physical suffering with Yeshua/His people.
Biblio:"willtherealhereticsplease standup?"byBercot(churchTruth)
Posts: 75 | From: tulsa | Registered: Mar 2005
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epouraniois
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I would hardly think it necessary to show that God has not been working with Israel, they themselves fulfilling the most negative and cumilative prophecies of the Old Testament.
And while it is true that there would be a complete gospel if Paul had not written those seven epistles after Acts was historically recorded. However, we would not have even one word about anyone going to heaven. Nor a mention of anyone being seated with Christ. Why, we wouldn't even know about Christ putting all things under His feet in heaven and on earth without the apostle being sent to the nations.
Please consider the following assertaion.
Hos 3:3
And I said unto her, Thou shalt abide for me many days; thou shalt not play the harlot, and thou shalt not be for man: so I also for thee.
Hos 3:4
For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:
Hos 3:5
Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.
The ministry of Paul to the Elders of Israel in Rome as recorded in Acts 28 is an echo of the ministry of the Lord during His forty days on earth as recorded in Acts 1.
"Speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God" (Acts 1:3).
"He expounded and testified the kingdom of God" (Acts 28: 23). The record given in Acts 1:3 is a summary of what is written at large in Luke 24, where "Moses and the Prophets" are "expounded" by the Lord "concerning Himself". In Acts 28 Paul persuaded the Jews "concerning Jesus" both out of the law of "Moses" and out of the "Prophets". The parallel is intentional.
The THEME in both is "concerning Himself"; "concerning Jesus".
The THEME includes the "hope" of Israel. "We trusted" (Luke 24:21) translates elpizo "we hoped". The "hope" of Israel (Acts 28:20) translates elpis.
The BASIS of this ministry in both passages is the O.T. Scriptures, Luke 24:25,27,45; Acts 28:23.
The METHOD is Exposition, Luke 24:27,32; Acts 28:23.
The OBJECT is Persuasion, Luke 24:25, 32,45; Acts 28:26.
In addition, we have such parallels as the use of the word bradus "slow" (Luke 24:25) and "dull" bareos (Acts 28:27). While the eyes of the two in Luke 24 were "opened", the eyes of Israel were "closed" (Acts 28:27).
In. neither Luke 24, Acts 1 nor Acts 28 have we yet discovered the slightest allusion to the high calling of the church of the Mystery. We are on the verge of its revelation, but not until Israel became Lo-ammi "not My people" could that calling of the Gentiles that goes back for its inception to "before the foundation of the world", be made known.
The testimony of the Apostle on that memorable day was twofold. It was concerning "the kingdom of God" and "concerning Jesus", and it was found entirely in the testimony of the Old Testament.
It is evident that "the restoration of the kingdom to Israel" (Acts 1:6). arose as a direct result of the Lord's testimony "pertaining to the kingdom of God" (Acts 1:3), and Paul in Acts 26:22 declared that up to that point he had declared "none other than Moses and the Prophets did say should come". So, here, in his testimony to the Elders of the Jews the teaching of the O.T. scriptures that impinged on "the hope of Israel" set the limits to his message.
ACTS 28
A a 23. Chief of the Jews come to Paul's lodging.
b 23. Paul "expounded" the Kingdom of God.
c 23. Persuading concerning Jesus.
d 23. Out of the law and prophets.
e 23. From morning till evening.
B f 24,25. They agreed not among themselves.
g 25. They departed.
C h 25. The word of the Holy Ghost.
i 26. Go unto this people.
j 26. Hear . . . not understand.
D Acts 28:27. Hearts waxed gross.
Ears dull.
Eyes closed.
Eyes see.
Ears hear.
Isa. 6:10. Hearts understand.
Be converted.
I should heal them.
C h 28. The salvation of God.
i 28. SENT unto the Gentiles.
j 28. They will hear it.
B g 29. The Jews departed.
f 29. Great reasoning among themselves.
A a 30. All come to Paul's hired house.
b 31. Paul "preaches" the kingdom of God.
c 31. "Teaches" concerning the Lord Jesus Christ.
d 31. With all confidence. No reference to O.T.
e 31. Unhindered.
Calling to your rememberance, that the word "depart" apoluo (Acts 28:25) indicates Israel's "divorcement" and the words "they agreed not" (assumphonos) are used of the marriage relationship also (1 Cor. 7:5).
The failure of Israel and the consequent blessing of the Gentile, was foreshadowed in Paul's opening ministry as recorded in Acts 13. The doom there threatened, now falls. Here is the de facto execution of the sentence that was pronounced de jure in Matthew 23:38, "Your house is left unto you desolate". Since the call of Abraham, the Scriptures contain no record of a Gentile being saved independently of Israel. "Salvation is of the Jews" was the testimony of the Lord Himself to the woman of Samaria.
When the dismissal of the Jew was over, and the salvation of God sent to the Gentile, a change is observed. He now speaks "concerning the Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 28:31). Not only so, the omission of any reference to the O.T. scriptures is obvious.
In his early epistles Paul makes constant appeal to the Old Testament. The Gospel which he preached had been "promised afore in the holy scriptures" (Rom. 1:2); the doctrine of Justification by Faith is confirmed by the words "as it is written" (Rom. 1:17); indeed "What saith the Scriptures?" (Rom. 4:3) might well be cited as typical of Paul's attitude during his early ministry. In 2 Timothy 3:16 Paul makes it clear that to the very end he unhesitatingly believed that "All scripture was given by inspiration of God"-and yet the moment we cross the boundary line of Acts 28 into his "Prison Epistles" that moment we come into the light of a new revelation, something that had been hid in God from the ages, and something not found in the O.T. writings, something indeed that was a Mystery, or a Secret as the word means. "It is written" occurs some forty times in Paul's early epistles, the phrase is never again employed by him after Acts 28. Not one quotation of Scripture meets us in Ephesians 1, until we come to the reference to Psalm 8 in Ephesians 1:21-23.
We read on through Chapters two and three right into the practical section Chapter four, before we meet the next reference to the O.T. namely Ephesians 4:8. There is no direct quotation of O.T. scripture in Philippians or Colossians and but one in 2 Timothy 2:9, an allusion to Numbers 16:5 and 26.
In the seven later epistles, there are not more than eight references to the O.T. and of this number not one can be said to teach the peculiar doctrine that was entrusted to Paul to make known.
And not only this, but James, John, Jude, Peter and Paul ALL speak of the time coming to a head, saying things like, 'it is the last time', and, 'the night is far spent, the day is at hand', or, 'I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not', and 'Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins always: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost'.
It is with the prophecy of Israel becoming Lo-ammi that all thing things bring to bear on the absence of any earthly sign of God using Israel since they had entered into what the apostle calls, 'the mystery of Israel's blindness'.
If God was still using Israel, who then has she been bringing the light of Jesus Christ to the world? And if Israel is still being used, then why are we disobeying Scriptures and persuing God apart from that preiminent nation who is the chosen channel of blessig to the nations?
Are the verses stating God created one new man in Christ called the church which is His body come into view? Are we to dismiss the fact that the inspired writer becomes a prisoner of Christ Jesus for the hope of the nations when just before the Salvation of God is sent to all nations He was a prisoner in bonds for the hope of Israel?
Or does all of this fit in God's expanded secret body as the apostle makes known?
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yeshuaslavejeff
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whoever blesses the jews today shall be blessed by G_d,
whoever curses the jews shall be cursed by G_d.
G_d's Word and Promise and Plan, none has changed.
When the rabbis and pastors and other men of G_d
sent the pres. warnings about hurting, abandoning,
or allowing any harm to Israel, they were right and
totally in line with G_d's Word. The judgments of
G+d against the usa have been clearly laid out to
the officials in the white house, biblical line upon
biblical line, and what is yet to come is beyond all
that has already been, according to Scripture which
has never been broken.
the theological environment that most live in does
not abide in G_d's Word - but rather is being
summed up in the false church, the world church
that the pres. has prostituted himself with and
most pastors and churches in the usa have gone
along with. to break free from their grip
requires no small miracle - the grace of G_d!
almost, just almost, even the elect are deceived,
so great is the current deception.
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1Peter4:1,2 Yeshua suffered physical suffering:disciples have same mind/ willingness to share shame/physical suffering with Yeshua/His people.
Biblio:"willtherealhereticsplease standup?"byBercot(churchTruth)
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Carmela
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God is a covenant keeping God. He keeps ALL covenants He makes all the way down to the next generation so I beileve that the promises He made to Isreal are still holding today.
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www.pinecrest.org
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epouraniois
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Yes, I understand the reasoning, and it is not to be taken as an offensive comment, just a Biblical fact. Israel is off the scene, and so are the blessing using her as the channel to the nations right now. God will take her up again, and it will be life from the dead.
Contrast, the mystery body was created and is hid with Christ in God, every aspect likewise takes on a higher sphere than the earthly realm of Abraham, for not only is Abraham not mentioned again after the Salvation of God is sent to the gentiles, but God also takes on a higher title, as per the Holy Spirit inspired apostle prays:
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him.
The prison ministry is given to anounce the inheritance into a realm where the land nor the heavenly city find any place, for it is far above all, and the unity is in the Spirit, not some other thing, and the kingdom is called the kingdom of His dear Son, or in the R.V, the Son of His love.
Everything takes an imeasurable step up once Israel departed in Acts 28:25, which is really a much too mild term, for it is the word 'divorced'.
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yahsway
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"Judaisim" had a great and preiminent place in the eyes of God? I don't think so.
God has not been the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob for nearly 2000 years? I do think so!
If Abraham were the first proselyte, he stood forever as the model for the rest. Abraham had been blessed by as a covenant member before he was circumcised. Since in Paul's day "circumcision" was a short-hand way of saying "Jewish", Paul realized that Abraham had become a covenant member as a NON-JEW, he had attained the status of covenant member by FAITH, not by the ritual of the proselyte.
If this were true of Abraham, it was also true for all Gentiles who exercised FAITH in the Messiah Yeshua. For even Yeshua Himself spoke of Abraham as having seen Him.
Abraham was/is the model for the circumcised as well as uncircumcised, and God is still the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Shalom
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epouraniois
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Rom 11:15
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? BUT NOW is the time to make all men see what is the fellowship of the Mystery which in other times was not made known unto the sons of men, but now is revealed...
Eph 3:10
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God
I am reminded that God has left their house desolate, and that while Satan sets up his kingdom, it must get so very very bad on this old earth, for nothing less than Satan coming to show himself as God, with all deceivableness and signs and lying wonders will cause Israel to call on the name of the Lord, and it will get so bad that the only gospel that even can be preached is, "Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters".
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BORN AGAIN
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brother epouraniois, you write quote:
There was a time when Judaism had a great and preiminent place in the eyes of God, but God has not been the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob for nearly two thousand years.
But He will again? Don't you think that, even now, His heart yearns for the house of Israel and the house of Judah to be His again, to be "no more lo-ammi" and "no more lo-ruhamah", but be "ammi" and "ruhamah"?
Isaiah 41
8 But you, Israel, are My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham My friend.
10 Do not be afraid; for I am with you: be not dismayed; for I am your God: I will strengthen you; yea, I will help you; yes, I will uphold you with the right hand of My righteousness.
11 Look, all they that were incensed against you shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they who strive with you shall perish.
12 You shall seek them, but shall not find them, even them who contended with you: they that war against you shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nothing.
13 For I the LORD your God will hold your right hand, saying to you, Do not be afraid; I will help you.
14 Do not be afraid, you worm Jacob, and you men of Israel; I will help you, says the LORD, and your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.
epouraniois, did you mean that the church is more in focus for the LORD right now while Israel is held in abeyance?
BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois
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Col 3:23
And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
Eph 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16
And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17
And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 4:3
Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Endeavoring is also tranlated 'study', from the verse, study to show thyself approved unto God, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit, not some other thing.
When Israel took her place amidst the nations, the word was sent to all with no nation having any place in front of another. If some want to play relegion, that is what they are doing. There was a time when Judaism had a great and preiminent place in the eyes of God, but God has not been the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob for nearly two thousand years.
Eph 6:18
Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints
Col 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Col 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith (assurance) of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13
And you, being dead in (TO) your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses
Note that this is all past tense, God considers you risen with His Dear Son yesterday.
Col 3:1
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Col 3:9
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Col 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Col 3:15
And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Col 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Col 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
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BORN AGAIN
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Little did Abram and Sarai know what they were getting themselves into when the LORD said to them in Haran:
Genesis 12
1 The LORD had said to Abram, Get out of your country and from your next-of-kin and from your father's house, to a land that I will show you.
2 And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you, and I will make your name great; and you shall be a blessing.
Now, in verse 3 it says:
3 And I will bless them who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you: and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Is that still true for Christians also? Will a Christian automatically feel like "blessing them" and not like "cursing them"?
Am I blessing them? Yes, I see Israel as my brother. I don't know who the current Israelis are, but all that notwithstanding, I believe in the land of Israel, that that is where the Prince Yahshua-Jesus will rule from.
Genesis 12
4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken to him; and Lot also went with him: and Abram was 75 years old when he departed out of Haran.
May the LORD God of Israel, our adoptive Father, bless his adopted sons and daughters, through faith in His Son Jesus. BORN AGAIN ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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