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Author
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Topic: What does this verus mean? Mark 16:15-17
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epouraniois
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posted
The first thing to acknowledge is that the risen Saviour and Lord Christ Jesus was speaking to the apostles. They were of the Hebrew tribes. There is no reason to add anything to what is written.
What the verses explain and typify is:
Heb 6:5 "the powers of the world to come"
these are the showing forth of the milinial healing and teachings by the Hebrew priests in resurrection glory.
This speaks to that which the Lord Christ Jesus showed forth and said the apostles would do greater signs then He. They did. On the very first day at the Pentecostal Feast, although there were perhaps millions, even though only three thousand were baptized, they went forth, far surpassing Christs' earthly ministry:
Act 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:15
And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about a hundred and twenty,)
Act 1:16
Men and brethren, this Scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
If you understand the meanings of the Feasts, then it can be readily seen that they expected the Feast of Tabernacles and their resurrection into aonian life.
In this resurrection life they would then minister in like fashion, going forth into all nations, healing. That is what is going on in the thousand years, the preist from the Hebrew tribes have this covenant. It belongs to them. See Jer. 31:31>>
The miracles, signs, and wonders were given to the Hebrews because they had the commission, they had the promises, they had the Holy Spirit speaking through the believers, walking through them, and (Rom 10. 18) "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world",
and as the verse states, the commission was completed. The Lord was working with them.
What was going on was 'the powers of the world to come'
and if they did not receive the Holy Spirit, if they, who had been trained for centuries to recognize Yeshau Messiah, failed to receive the Holy Spirit, which is where the next verse brings it's warning and instruction;
Heb 6:6
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8
But that which beareth thorns and briars is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
And this should bring to the mind the parable of the tares, whose end it is to be gathered on the threshing floor.
Also, these verses come hard on the warning from the end of chapter 5, which continues into ch.6 with the edict to continue on to perfection (maturity), contrast in ch10 with those who 'draw back',
remembering the edict;
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
The contrast:
Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
It is important to realize that if the Feast of the Tabernacles had been realized, no gentile could have part in Israel's kingdom blessings, for they are covenanted to them. And those gentiles who were made partakers of Israel's spiritual things, given crumbs at her table as the Syrophenician woman echos forth, had no claim to Israel's table, as it was still Israel's table.
But seeing they were rejecting the kingdom reOffer, they were provoked to jealousy by allowing the gentiles to stand outside the middle wall of partition and receive the word of God (Scriptures), Paul speaking none other things than Moses and the Prophets (Act 26:22) did say should come.
It was prophecized therefore, that:
1Co 14:21
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people (the Jews); and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
1Co 14:22
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them (of Israel) that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Isa 28:11
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12
To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Still speaking to Israel:
Act 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord
All they had to do is believe.
It is not till after Israel is stricken blind, becoming Lo-ammi, that they are counted as one just of the nations, without God, having no longer any preimmence that The Salvation of God is sent to the nations. They were so blinded by their choice to be blind that they never bothered Paul again. They just went about their business as if none of it had ever happened. When God blinds a people, they are blind indeed. But this is only for a time.
What follows is the revelation of the mystery body, giving a new calling in the new doctrine - which everyone seems to be still activly rejecting in favor of their own beliefs, denying what is clearly stated and written by the Holy Spirit for the Salvation of God that was thereafter sent, leaving the masses of Christiandom prayerfully, but unfruitfully claiming Israel's calling as their own, and in so doing they are rejecting the high calling of God which the Lord had afterwards sent, having no mind to take Israel's penalties, but happy to claim their blessings.
All of this just boggles my mind, it's as if the rest of the Bible is too unbelievable, so it is not believed, and not believed by the same people who claim that every word is God-Breathed, thus rejectin God's living word as brought to us gentiles in favor of what their ministers tell them. Simply ignoring what is written and to whom. It hurts.
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shadowmaker
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Member # 3696
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posted
Not saying that it does or doesnt happen. Everything is possible with God. But the reason I ask was the guy was trying to say that was the only way to prove you were a believer. You had to be able to do those things. And that verus had never been pointed out to me.
Thanks for the help.
Brad
Posts: 272 | Registered: Jul 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
Well there is debate about whether these gifts were passed on after the Apostles all died.
You cannot lay your hands on the sick and heal them.. I cant either.. but God has healed more than one when my husband has laid hands upon them.
There are poeple in our church who have given testimonial witness to being understood by africanas in an unlearned african dialect.
There are also people in our church who have given testimony to the witness of the physical casting out of demons.
I have not personally witnessed these things but I believe those who have testified of them did see and hear and experience what they claim.
I have first hand experienced/ seen/ witnessed my husband lay on hands and impart God's healing.
I really think that there are two issues here. One issue is have sign wonders continued? What does the scripture say about the continuation of sign wonders?
The other issue is what gifts has God given to the church to supply the needs of the church.
I think that there are perhaps two different answers to these questions.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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shadowmaker
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posted
Thats what the guy is trying to say thats how you can prove who the true believers are because they can do those things.
Brad
Posts: 272 | Registered: Jul 2004
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BORN AGAIN
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posted
Mark 16
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
None of these things has happened through me either.
But whether these things were only for the 11 or 12 disciples, I don't know, eventhough it says that Jesus "gave them power":
Luke 9:1
Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
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shadowmaker
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Member # 3696
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posted
Bouncing between 2 boards, so I ll go into detail. Read verus 18. No I cant lay my hand on the sick and heal them. Jesus was talking to just those 11 diciples who didnt believe he had risen. He was telling them to go out spread the gospel and do those miracles in his name. Those powers werent passed on to each of us.
Brad
Posts: 272 | Registered: Jul 2004
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BORN AGAIN
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posted
shadowmaker writes quote:
I found my answer I think. Jesus was talking to the disciples and not to all believers.
John 8:31
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed.
John 13:35
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
John 15:8
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
So, are you not a disciple?
BORN AGAIN
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shadowmaker
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Opps, no it goes thru the end of the chapter. I found my answer I think. Jesus was talking to the disciples and not to all believers.
Brad
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BORN AGAIN
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Mark 16
15 And he said to them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues.
Presumably you are referring mostly to verse 17?
BORN AGAIN
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shadowmaker
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I think I know but how do you explain it to someone? This person is saying you must be able to do these things if you are a believer.
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