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Topic: And Jesus answered
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epouraniois
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Satan is the brightest and anointed angel of light, the lightbearer. He will come in all his angelic glory showing himself to be God. He may come in a space ship imitatating the living whilrwind of Ez1. 4.
Satan will have his own body, will have left his own estate, will have been in a fight and thrown out of the heavens at the 6th trumpet (rev12), will have opened the pit at the 5th trumpet wherein demoniacs will have come forth as scorpions; which do what? A scorpion poisons the inside to where it melts, specifically the backbone making one unable to stand. That is how scorpions feed. All within the framework of G4972, σφραγίζω, the sphragizō.
I try to always take the Bible as literal. When this cannot be accomplished we can be sure a Figure of Speech is being used, of which we have some 200 to become aquainted with.
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BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois writes quote:
I always remind myself, that if I have flesh on me that I can see, then it is not the Christ.
you already have less on you than us. 
Okay, without getting into HAARP and ELFs and the phases of the moon, will Lucifer-Satan need a human body to manifest at that time, or not?
And, what kind of body did Lucifer-Satan have when Jesus, as the Son of man, met Lucifer-Satan in the wilderness after Jesus's baptism by John?
Will Lucifer-Satan need a human body or not when coming as pseudo-Messiah?
thanks, BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
epouraniois writes quote:
but I don't see John 17:12 as Judas being the son of perdition really.
I wasn't implying that Judas was the "son of perdition" himself, only that he was LIKE the "son of perdition", i.e., an example of an incarnation by Satan entering in.
But let me ask you this, Lucifer-Satan would have to "enter somebody" again at the end-time, right? I.e., can Lucifer-Satan manifest as himself by himself, or will he need a human body to do it, and if so, what kind of person do you project that would be?
BORN AGAIN
I realize you weren't saying that, I just wanted to make a clear statment for all who read, I try to have that in the back of my mind when writing anything, but need picked up when I fall down.
The other question is beyond the realm of Bible statements isn't it? I mean, if I think outside the Bible, I can think of all kinds of things, such as the ancient and accepted rights of freemasonry, the lunar base, the HAARP and ELF's, truly though, I think this will be like God coming. The subject is the antiChrist, and anti means, in the Greek, instead of, hence, the instead of Christ, the counterfiter, the spurious Messiah, the son of perdition, and the beasts (government powers on high+those possessed by demoniac involved in Mystery Babylon religeon, see the bohemian grove, &c) to bring this about are, as I have said otherwise, far advanced to pull off a group holographic rapture, mass healings, the deaf hear, the blind see, the whole bit. It will be irrisitible, as Rev states, pulling lightening down in his hand even.
I always remind myself, that if I have flesh on me that I can see, then it is not the Christ. That is the worst case scenario for me, as I well know, I am to manifest with Christ when He manifest, and this, before the parousia, or coming to the earth from heaven.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
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Watcher
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prolix
quote:
Is there not some true Christian here as Moderator to get rid of this rubbish?
No and this trash is posted all over every topic.
Its a shame ![[mad2]](graemlins/mad2.gif)
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Watcher
Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house. He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
Proverbs 17:13,15
Posts: 146 | From: Earth | Registered: Jul 2004
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BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois writes quote:
but I don't see John 17:12 as Judas being the son of perdition really.
I wasn't implying that Judas was the "son of perdition" himself, only that he was LIKE the "son of perdition", i.e., an example of an incarnation by Satan entering in.
But let me ask you this, Lucifer-Satan would have to "enter somebody" again at the end-time, right? I.e., can Lucifer-Satan manifest as himself by himself, or will he need a human body to do it, and if so, what kind of person do you project that would be?
BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois
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quote:
Luke 22:3
Then Satan entered into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
John 13:27
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus to him, What you do, do quickly.
John 17:12
{Jesus said} While I was with them in the world, I kept them {the disciples} in Your name: those that You gave Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, except the son of perdition {meaning, Judas}; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
bless the LORD YHWH of Israel. BORN AGAIN ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) [/QB]
Remember that Christ said Satan entered Peter too though, saying 'get thee behind me Satan'.
but I don't see John 17:12 as Judas being the son of perdition really. The reason why is that Judas could not possibly be lost, for He repented for one thing, but more than that even, in the bigger picture, there really is only one named to perish, but I digress, as there is the question of the fallen angles and all that.
Even so, what we have in Judas may just be an overcomer of that Kenite seedline.
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epouraniois
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Hegelian Dialectical rants and the recursive pattern of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis doesn't really bring the hegemony to your administration by transformational change agent(s), no matter how the most prolific social manipulators portray THAT form of religeon, as by the third initiation - hoodwinked form doublespeech utlimately lends to desolation of the very humanism self uplift perports. Not so I.
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prolix
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Prolix?
Pro-lix. Pro=for [a positive word]. Lix? Li is short for life. x can be a multiplier; X can stand for Xian. That's the underlying meaning; got it?
Besides, I belong to the family of Asterix and Obelix. You had better watch out, or Goscinny and Uderzo will be after you!
Still smiling. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) [And yes, Epouran, its still balderdash!]
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http://procyon4x.blogspot.com
Posts: 28 | From: maldives | Registered: Dec 2005
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epouraniois
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quote:
Originally posted by prolix:
Is there not some true Christian here as Moderator to get rid of this rubbish?
ARe you a mason?
pro·lix (prō-lĭks', prō'lĭks') pronunciation
adj.
Tediously prolonged
i.e.,excess through insufficiency.
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epouraniois
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John 17:12
{Jesus said} While I was with them in the world, I kept them {the disciples} in Your name: those that You gave Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, except the son of perdition {meaning, Judas}; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Throughout Scripture the Hebrews were given types and shadows, all pointing to one thing. The true.
the copulative form of the word 'and' is a verb. The Hebrew language does not have this, but the Greek uses the word 'and' in multidudenous ways our English is limited by, such an example would be the explicative form, lending to the reason why there is God and the Lamb, should read then, God even the Lamb, being why there are not two thrones, but one.
Paul and Barnabas made the journey together, and this arrangement was beneficial to both." This is called the conjunctive use.
You might be pleasantly surprised if you looked up the word in Webster's Unabridged Dictionary and found out how many things we can do and say with our word and.other examples of the kai (and) explicative, the Greeks could make use of their word kai in ways that we cannot use our word and. They could use it to annex a word, phrase, or sentence for the purpose of defining, explaining or interpreting that which has been said. In such usages, where the word kai is used to attach the explanation that follows, it is called the kai explicative principle. This is a principle of interpretation which needs to be recognized by all who study and interpret the New Testament:
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water AND (kai) of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Water AND Spirit here, is not two things. English, better, Spiritual water, born of the water which is Spirit. This understanding should open up a world of Biblical understanding, from the ships of Chittim to the rivers in Genesis 2, even (kai) Jacobs Ladder.
In 1 Cor. 15:24 where the Greek reads “to Theo kai Patria”. This translated literally would say' 'the God and Father," but if we render it this way in the context where it is found, it would make God to be one being and the Father another. The KJV translators did well here to translate this: "Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father,"
'flowing from the throne of God even the Lamb':
It would have been more explicit to say instead of even, "that is to say," or "in other words."
the throne of God, that is to say the Lamb, or, the throne of God, in other words the Lamb.
See it? Here are some more:
That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even (kai) the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Rom 15:6.
Blessed be God, even (kai) the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort. 2 Cor. 1:3.
To the end He may establish your hearts unblamable in holiness before God, even (kai) our Father. 1 Thess. 3:13.
Now our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and (kai) God, even (kai) our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace. 2 Thess 2:16.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even (kai) as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even (kai) denying the Lord that bought them. 2 Peter 2:1.
The connective and the explicative use of the word kai is used in some of the above, and in the last passage is seen what is called the exegetical use of this word. In this usage the word kai does not simply add an additional statement. It brings in an explanation of the previous statement that limits its application or clarifies its meaning. It can be clearly seen that the "damnable heresy" is explained as "denying the Lord that bought them." If the translators had used and here instead of even it would cause us to think that "denying the Lord" was something in addition and not one of the damnable heresies.
It should be noted also that in 2 Thess. 2:16, while the translators recognized the explicative kai in its second occurrence they ignored it in the first. This should read: "now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, even God, even the Father."
The use of kai to add an explanation is a rule of Greek grammer which can be stated as follows: "When kai, the copulative 'and' connects two nouns of the same case, and if the definite article precedes the first noun and is absent from the second noun, the latter noun always refers to the same person, place or thing that has been set forth in the first noun." This rule is often referred to as Granville Sharp's law, being named after the man who discovered and set forth this principle. This is an established principle of Greek grammar which should not be ignored by any translator or interpreter. Nevertheless, the apposition can be demonstrated in passages where both nouns have the article, also where neither have the article, the aposition being established by the explicative or exegetical use of the word kai. However, this is a matter of context and interpretation.
In Eph. 1:2 we find a use of kai which is quite revealing: Paul says "Grace be to you, even (kai) peace, from God our Father, even (kai) the Lord Jesus Christ. Since "peace" is one of the graces, he explains that peace is the grace that he desires for them. And since there cannot be two givers of grace and peace, he makes it plain that "God our Father" is "the Lord Jesus Christ."
In Ephesians 4:32 much truth would be lost if kai were not translated "even." Here Paul exhorts them: "And become kind to one another, tenderly compassionate, dealing graciously with one another, even (kai) as God also in Christ deals graciously with you." This should be regarded as the epexegetical use of kai which adds an explanation following a statement in order to make its meaning perfectly clear. We do not need to ask how God wants us to deal graciously with others. We have been told.
In Colossians 1:2 we find kai in a very illuminating occurrence. This should read "To the saints in Colosse, even (kai) believing brethren in Christ." Here the words "believing brethren" are an explanation of "to the saints."
In 2 Tim. 4:1 we find Paul charging Timothy "before God, and (kai) the Lord Jesus Christ." Here "God" has the article and" Jesus Christ" does not; as in John1. 1c. The construction here demands that these two names refer to the same person. The second name explains what Paul meant when he said "God". He would not solemnly charge Timothy before two masters. While two names are used the verb translated "is about to judge" (mellontos krinein) is singular.
In the second part of 2 Tim. 4: 1 the two nouns translated "appearing" and "kingdom" have the definite article, but with the explicative kai in between, freely translated thus: "Who is about to be judging the living and the dead at His blazing forth, that is to say, His manifestation. It is the blazing forth of the glory of our great God and Savior that introduces the kingdom and becomes the foundation of all that follows. It is the primary event, the results being that the church is manifest with Him and then His parousia (coming) to the earth in great clouds of witnesses.
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BORN AGAIN
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Jesus even called Judas Iscariot "a son of perdition", and the probable reason is that "Satan entered into Judas Iscariot".
By this God Jesus meant to tell us what Lucifer-Satan would do for a little while before the Real Prince came to His holy portion in Jerusalem.
Luke 22:3
Then Satan entered into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
John 13:27
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus to him, What you do, do quickly.
John 17:12
{Jesus said} While I was with them in the world, I kept them {the disciples} in Your name: those that You gave Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, except the son of perdition {meaning, Judas}; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
bless the LORD YHWH of Israel. BORN AGAIN
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BORN AGAIN
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brother epouraniois writes quote:
Note too, the word 'and' is in the English copulative form
I have never heard of that form before, but unrelated to all that, I liked what you said about "the MAN" and "the SON of perdition."
I suppose "the MAN" and "the SON of perdition" refers to an incarnation of Lucifer-Satan at some future point, when Lucifer-Satan precedes the actual coming of God Prince Yahshua-Jesus by a little while.
God will allow Lucifer-Satan that challenge, until Lucifer-Satan is swept away by the brightness of His Coming.
bless the LORD YHWH of Israel, I am BORN AGAIN in the USA by the
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epouraniois
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Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed THAT NO MAN DECEIVE YOU."
Matthew 24:5 "For MANY shall come in my name, saying, 'I am Christ;' and shall deceive MANY."
1) many will come [using My Name as their authority]
2) and say that I AM THE CHRIST [and they are doing this][they are saying that Jesus is The Christ]
3) and shall deceive many [by not providing their congregation w/ Bible Truths]
4) this leads to the famine of the end times being for the Word of God and
5) strong delusion of 2 Thess2
Next: & notice how this verse begins the same way:
II Thessalonians 2:3 "LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and THAT MAN of sin be revealed, THE SON of perdition;"
There are not any references to plural men here! THAT man, THE son,
not those men, the sons!
Speaking of s.>>>
Isaiah 14:16; "They that see THEE shall narrowly look upon THEE, and consider THEE, saying, is this THE man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;"
One specific one, called here, "THE MAN", and to look "UPON THEE", and consider "THEE".
Not "them", not "men", but "the man".
This next v. will show us the difference between singular and plural subject matters:
I John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
So, yes there are many that come in the Name of His authority, but that is not the subject of II Thess 2:3, is it?
NO, it is not. What is the subject, if it is not for us to not be deceived? Any by what? By this man, not men, but man of sin , who is he? He is the son, not the sons, but THE ONE SON OF PERDITION!
Christ even tells us to refer to Dan the prophet [Mat 24:15] in inquiring into the matter of the identity of this one man, anthropos.[singular]
Strong's Greek man #444:
anthropos; from 435 and (the countenance; from 3700); man-faced, ie a human being: certain, man.
He is a certain man. This man had not yet made his appearance long after Judas was hanged/suicided.
Dan, Christ, Mathew, Luke, Mark, Paul, the angel of the Lord in Rev, each speaking of whom this one man is, who will be cast down, all agree with one another re: the man of sin, the son of perdition comes first and will deceive many.
Note too, the word 'and' is in the English copulative form, giving us two things they should have expected before the day of the Lord. A day they expected to see in their lifetimes, for it was 'at hand'.
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