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Topic: Does God ever mix his metaphors?
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epouraniois
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posted
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
What is DHL?
Air express transportation of goods between countries. Site contains excellent how-to and country information.
http://www.dhl.com
I used them when living out country with success.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by timspong:
Wow that is a great offer Wild B. Unfortunately the mail here is not very reliable and it would probably get stolen before it ever got here. DHL etc is the only safe option, however it is very expensive. I would not want you to go to all that trouble.
But thanks for your kind offer, it definitely brought out the spirit of the season in me. (Which has been somewhat lacking, mainly due to the 90+ weather over here). ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
What is DHL?
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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timspong
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Nigeria is very much divided between muslims and Christians. However, here in the South West (Lagos) it is very much Christian Dominated. The north is Taliban controlled and very strict. The Middle around Abuja the capital is about half in half.
The good thing is that everyone believes in something there are very few atheists, although there are also quite a few vudu/juju practitioners also.
Surprisingly everyone gets on pretty well together and there isn’t the kind of interfaith conflict that you might expect. Nigerians are not the kind of people that would give their lives for a cause, so there aren’t any terrorist activities to speak of. Ordinary life is dangerous enough without any of that with; armed robbers (some of whom are police) lack of emergency services and general lack of safety precautions of any kind. You often see dead bodies just lying by the side of the road.
Anyhow, I am out here with my Wife, who is on assignment with the American Red Cross administering an Aids grant. I am the COO of one of the biggest private power companies here and we are looking to stay here long term for at least 10-20 years.
I am trying to figure out what God wants me to do here, but meantime I am looking at starting some orphanages and homeless shelters etc.
BTW the Government has quite a few Muslims but the President and quite a few key personnel are Christian.
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Yours in Christ
Timothy Michael Spong
Posts: 146 | From: Lagos, Nigeria | Registered: Nov 2005
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BORN AGAIN
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brother timspong, what are you doing in Nigeria? Unfortunately for Christians in Nigeria, the Islamic North is in control of the government. I saw an article about the Islamic government resisting a new census because it might show that Christians are more numerous than was asserted since the last census.
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
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timspong
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Wow that is a great offer Wild B. Unfortunately the mail here is not very reliable and it would probably get stolen before it ever got here. DHL etc is the only safe option, however it is very expensive. I would not want you to go to all that trouble.
But thanks for your kind offer, it definitely brought out the spirit of the season in me. (Which has been somewhat lacking, mainly due to the 90+ weather over here).
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Yours in Christ
Timothy Michael Spong
Posts: 146 | From: Lagos, Nigeria | Registered: Nov 2005
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by timspong:
Hey WildB - where did you get the electronic copy of Vernon McGee? is it on the internet anywhere?
I read some of his stuff and it seemed pretty easy to read and gave some great pearls of wisdom. However, some of his doctrine was at odds with my church. This caused me to stop reading him for a while so I could let God direct my path through the bible only. I wouldn't mind reading some of his books, but they are not readily available here in Nigeria.
I will arrange to have the Set of 5 Volumes and Complete Index to you at no charge.
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Contact me off line with a place to send to and Ill talk to my people at TTB and forward the order charged to my account.
Unless that would put you in danger....Then I will try to work something eles out.
Your brother in Christ.
WildB
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Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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epouraniois
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Seeing as how the kingodm leaven parable is in view, I thought it appropriate to bring out some of the side issues voiced in the chapel of the open book, being that the meaning of a parable is to compare side by side...yet built four square upon the parable of the sower...
The connection between the leaven and the doctrine of the Pharisees, Sadducees and Herodians . Here is leaven enough for the thee measures of meal (3 sowings to the Jews). It will be found that this leaven has reference to the Word of God and the Person of Christ. In Matt. 16. 6-12 the Lord warns His disciples against the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and immediately the Scripture records His question, "Who do men say that I, the Son of man, am?" Peter's wonderful confession is immediately followed by an attack of Satan, where the cause of the opposition is the revelation of the fact that the Lord Jesus must suffer, die, and rise again. Peter's words, "Be propitious to Thyself" (verse 22) savoured of men, and were instigated by Satan (verse 23).
The Lord had said, further, that the leaven of the Pharisees was hypocrisy. This leaven is exposed in Matt. 23. 13, "Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of the heavens against men." This is why the King was rejected and the kingdom shut up. In Mark 7. the Lord again unveils their corrupting influence:-
"Well hath Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. However, in vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commands of men . . . . full well ye reject the commandment of God that ye may keep your own tradition" (Mark 7.6-9).
The leaven was everywhere making its corrupting way. Distorted views obtained concerning (1) the Messiah, (2) the Kingdom, and (3) the Scriptures. The Lord Jesus, standing in the midst of a people thus already corrupted, prophesied that this leavening would go on its evil course until the whole was leavened. "When the Son of man cometh, shall He find faith in the earth?" The apostle Paul, writing in 2 Thess. 2. of the rise of Antichrist, says:-
"For the mystery of lawlessness already is inwardly working itself, only until He that restraineth become out of the midst, and then shall be revealed the lawless one . . . . because the love of the truth they did not welcome . . . . they believe the lie" (verses 7-11).
This brings us to the end, "the whole was leavened." This is the state of things as given in the book of the Revelation. The last parable of the external history of the course of the kingdom is sad indeed. The state of Israel at the "time of the end" is deplorable, and may be summed up under the three heads, Pharisaic, Sadducean, and Herodian. Hypocrisy, infidelity and worldliness "like unto Sodom and Gomorrah."
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timspong
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Hey WildB - where did you get the electronic copy of Vernon McGee? is it on the internet anywhere?
I read some of his stuff and it seemed pretty easy to read and gave some great pearls of wisdom. However, some of his doctrine was at odds with my church. This caused me to stop reading him for a while so I could let God direct my path through the bible only. I wouldn't mind reading some of his books, but they are not readily available here in Nigeria.
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Yours in Christ
Timothy Michael Spong
Posts: 146 | From: Lagos, Nigeria | Registered: Nov 2005
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epouraniois
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quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
This parable teaches that the intrusion of wrong doctrine into the church will finally lead to total apostasy -- "The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened." The Lord Jesus Christ Himself said, "...when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8). The way the question is couched in the Greek, it demands a negative answer. In other words, he is saying that when He does return the world will be in total apostasy.
Agreed, well said. I still feel Christ's question regarding how can one know any parable if the first one is not understood to be imparitive, which is why I kept taking the argument back to the first parable and the reason for them all, to state that which had been kept secret since the foundation of the world, being kingdom circumstances which would unfold during the remainder of Christ's ministry, and conclude at Acts 28.28, leaving the kingdom promise of Israel in abayance as the mystery of that which was promised from before the foundation of the world is revealed to the church which is His body.
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WildB
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This parable teaches that the intrusion of wrong doctrine into the church will finally lead to total apostasy -- "The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened." The Lord Jesus Christ Himself said, "...when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8). The way the question is couched in the Greek, it demands a negative answer. In other words, he is saying that when He does return the world will be in total apostasy.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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epouraniois
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quote:
WB
The parable of the leaven is the key parable of this chapter.
How do you square that with this:
Mar 4:3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow...And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? Mar 4:13
The first ministry mentioned in the New Testament is that of John the Baptist. He preached the good news of the kingdom, and baptism unto remission of sins. Each ministry, however, had something of the four kinds of ground represented among its hearers, but the special characteristic of John's sowing was that it fell upon hearts which, like the wayside, had become hardened with continual treading and tradition, and consequently very few believed his message. Those who heard him "understood not," and the Lord tells us that the Wicked One "caught away that which was sown in their hearts."
Although you all may be of quicker understanding than I, it is my opinion that with out deeply researching the first parable, none of the parable can possibly become clear.
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WildB
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THE PARABLE OF THE LEAVEN
The parable of the leaven is the key parable of this chapter. Let me try to help you realize the importance of it. First of all, the Gospel of Matthew is the key book of the Bible. Secondly, chapter 13 is the key chapter of Matthew. And thirdly, verse 33 is the key verse of chapter 13. So actually, what we have here is one of the key verses of the Bible!
Now notice the very important teaching in this verse --
Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened [Matt. 13:33].
"The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven" -- but don't stop there -- "which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal." What does the leaven represent? There are those who interpret the leaven as the gospel, and they ought to know better! Nowhere is leaven used as a principle of good; it is always a principle of evil. The word leaven occurs ninety-eight times in the Bible -- about seventy-five times in the Old Testament and about twenty-three times in the New Testament -- and it is always used in a bad sense. The great scholar, Dr. Lightfoot, made the statement that rabbinical writers regularly used leaven as a symbol of evil. In the Old Testament it was forbidden to be used in the offerings made to God. In the New Testament our Lord warned to beward of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees (see Matt. 16:6). And the apostle Paul spoke of the leaven of malice and wickedness (see 1 Cor. 5:8). Symbolism in Scripture does not contradict itself, and we may be certain that leaven is not used in a good sense here in Matthew 13. Leaven is not the gospel.
The gospel is represented by the three measures of meal. How do we know this? Because meal is made out of grain or seed, and our Lord has already told us in the parable of the sower that the seed represents the Word of God.
Remember that this parable is a picture of what happens to the Word of God on this earth during the interval between Christ's rejection and His exaltation when He will return to set up His kingdom. Note what happens to the Word of God represented by the meal. This woman comes along -- I hope you ladies will forgive me for pointing this out -- and when a woman is used in a doctrinal sense in Scripture, she is always used as a principle of evil. She takes the leaven and hides it in the meal. If the leaven represents the gospel, why in the world did she hide it? The gospel is to be shouted from the housetops and heralded to the very ends of the earth. Obviously, the leaven is a principle of evil, and the woman puts it in the meal, which represents the gospel, the Word of God.
We certainly see this in reality in our day. There is no cult or "ism" which ignores the Bible. I find that even those who worship the Devil, the demon worshipers, use the Bible. False teachers of every description put leaven in the meal, the Word of God.
What does leaven do? Well, leaven is a substance, such as yeast, used to produce fermentation. When it is put in bread dough, it causes it to rise. And it makes it tasty, also. That is the reason a great many people find a thrill in some of the cults. Unleavened bread is just blah as far as the natural taste is concerned. A little leaven really helps it. I grew up in the South, and my mother used to make delicious biscuits. SHe would put leaven in the dough and put them on the back of the stove to rise. If I came running into the kitchen, she would shush me because she didn't want those biscuits to fall. When they got to a certain height, she would stop the fermentation by putting them in the oven and baking them. Have you ever seen what happens when you let dough continue to rise? I tell you, it makes a pan of corruption -- something you wouldn't want to eat! Leaven is a principle of evil.
This parable teaches that the intrusion of wrong doctrine into the church will finally lead to total apostasy -- "The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened." The Lord Jesus Christ Himself said, "...when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8). The way the question is couched in the Greek, it demands a negative answer. In other words, he is saying that when He does return the world will be in total apostasy.
Thru the Bible With J. Vernon McGee
Vol. 4, pgs. 76-77
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Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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epouraniois
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I thought it may be helpful to share something of the Structure of Matthew 13 from the chappel of the open book and from dr bullinger.
A | 1-9. The Sower. / The sowing of the seed into four kinds of ground. They (Israel) did not understand.
B | 24-30. The Tares. / Good and bad together. Separated at the harvest (the end of the age); the bad are cast into a furnace of fire, there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
C | 31, 32. The Mustard Tree. / One Tree.
D | 33. The Leaven. / Hid in three measures of meal.
D | 44. The Treasure. / Hid in a field.
C | 45, 46. Goodly Pearls. / One pearl.
B | 47-50. The Drag Net. / Good and bad together. Separated at the end of the age; the bad are cast into a furnace of fire, there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. They (disciples) did understand.
A | 51, 52. The Scribe. / The treasure opened to those in the house.
Look at the central pair of parables. The Leaven "hidden" in three measures of meal finds its corresponding member in the Treasure "hidden" in the field. The parable of the Tares finds its complement in the parable of the Drag Net. The parable of the Sower is balanced by that of the Scribe, and the Mustard Seed by the Pearl.
When we go back as far as the commencement of chapter 11. John the Baptist had said, "He that cometh after me is mightier than I." He had seen the heavens open, he had heard the voice of God saying, "This is My beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased." But in course of time John, for his faithfulness, was cast into prison, there to suffer not only agony of body, but of mind. Had he made a mistake? Why was he not liberated if this one was the Messiah? Why was the kingdom not set up? So John sent two of his disciples, who said, "Art thou He that should come, or do we look for another? "For answer the Lord replied, "Go and show John again those things which ye do see and hear; the blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached unto them, and blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in Me."
If the reader will turn to Isa. 29. 18, 19; 35. 5, 6; and 42. 1-7 he will see how this answer would tend to confirm the languishing forerunner. Everything was being done by the Saviour according to the Word and will of God, but unbelief was bringing this witness of the kingdom to a close, for a little further on, in Matt. 11. 20, He began to "upbraid the cities wherein most of His mighty works were done, because they repented not." It is evident that if the mighty works were rejected, the gospel or good news that the kingdom of the heavens had drawn nigh would be rejected also, and the cry, "Repent and believe," would go unheeded.
The Lord Jesus, however, knew that this opposition was to be overruled to the accomplishment of God's ultimate purpose, and with the words, "Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Thy sight," He awaited the end. It soon came, for in Matt. xii. we reach a climax. There the Lord Jesus is seen "greater than the Temple" (verse 6), "greater than the prophet Jonah" (verse 41), "greater than the king Solomon" (verse 42), and in all these capacities He is rejected. The reason for this rejection is given in verses 43-45.
The captivity of Babylon had cured the Jews of idolatry, but they were like a room "empty, swept and garnished," inhabited by a spirit more evil than that which bound their idolatrous "fathers"; the last state is worse than the first, for rejecting Christ they reached the climax sin. This leads on to Matt. 13. with its secrets or mysteries.
Up to this point nothing had been secret, but now the Saviour reveals to the hearing ear and seeing eye that the rejection of the King and His message was foreknown, that the efforts of the apostles themselves would meet with a similar fate, and that not until the end, when the Lord returns to take the kingdom and deliver Israel, will the sowing of the seed of the kingdom yield its bounteous harvest.
The "seed of the kingdom of heaven " was sown by John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the apostles during the Acts period, for it is not until we reach the fourth ground that the parable of the sower could possibly refer to the heathen nations; for during the ministry of Christ the word of the kingdom was confined to the limits of the Land of Promise:
"Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritan enter ye not; but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matt. 10. 5-7).
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epouraniois
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Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
These parables of Matthew thirteen ARE NOT about "The Kingdom of Heaven" pure and simple, but about "The mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven", a very different aspect of truth.
Here the leaven is the doctrine of the pharisees as in other places, and goes in perfectly with each of the kingdom parables.
Let us remember the Scriptural settings of these parables, the reasons which drew them from the Lord Jesus, the dispensation in which they were uttered, and the people and the kingdom about which they speak; we shall then have no need to be ashamed of our testimony.
Each and every one of the kingdom parables tell of one thing and one thing only, the word going forth to Israel, and the few receiving it while the others it did not take, bringing the events of the Acts, whereby the word was sent to those on the byways (gentiles).
In the first cause, the original sowiing was John the Baptist, till even at the wedding, He sent His Son and they killed Him...
All the kingodm parables are the same, the word is sown on different ground, the seed is mixed with the evil seed and unable to grow in certain ground, Israel falls into disbelief and here, the leaven contaminates the entire kingdom, and Israel's kingdom inheritance goes into abayance as both history and Scripture details.
Mat 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
These eight parables of Mathew 13 cannot be taken individually, as they are all part of the whole of the kingdom parables, and all of them are required to 'see' what is the mystery being told, which came to pass in Acts, bring us into the time present wherein the church is being built.
In Matthew 13:35 the Lord quotes from Psalm 78:2 in relation to His speaking in parables, and therefore we may expect to find some help in that Psalm to guide us to the right understanding of the purpose of parables. The heading of the Psalm is "Maschil of Asaph". The Hebrew word maschil is from the word sakal, which means, "to look at", "to scrutinize", and the term maschil means, "an understanding arising from a deep consideration" (Neh. 8:8).
"Give ear, 0 My people, to My law,
Incline your ears to the words of My mouth.
I will open my mouth in a parable,
I will utter dark sayings of old".
From this we may infer that a parable urges us to consider deeply the ways of God with His people, and to look for the hidden causes, and workings which are veiled from the eyes of the uninstructed.
That a parable has some connexion with a secret, a reference to Matthew thirteen will prove. There for the first time in the New Testament do we read the word "mystery" or "secret" and there for the first time occurs the word "parable". Further, the Lord Jesus translates the words, "I will utter dark sayings of old," by the words, "I will utter things which have been kept secret since the overthrow (katabole) of the world" (Matt. 13:35).
In Hebrews 9:9 and 11:19 we find the word translated, "a figure". A parable and a proverb are much alike. The parable of Matthew 15:13-15 might be termed a proverb. Indeed the word translated "proverb" in Luke 4:23 is really "parable". The words, "Physician, heal thyself" are called in the original a "parable". That a "proverb" carried the same hidden teaching as did the "parable and dark saying" can be seen by referring to John 16:25 and 29:
"These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."
In the Old Testament we have "type"; in the Gospels we have "parable" , and in the epistles we have "doctrine", as the more prominent features. The parables lead us to contemplate the hidden causes of the failure of Israel in relation to the kingdom that had been proclaimed and look forward to the time when all will be put right at the Coming of the Lord in glory.
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timspong
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epouraniois said in another thread:
"One thing I have not found God doing is mixing His metaphors. He always uses the same ones in the same way. If He did not, we would be able to call it double mindedness, and God is not double minded."
So Does God every mix his metaphors?
I have always wondered about Matt 13.33:
Matt 13:33
33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
KJV
Leaven is normally denoted as evil, yet on the surface it seem that, in this case, leaven is the very Kingdom of Heaven.
I sometimes think that it would also make sense other way around where the Kingdom of God is the Meal and the evil leaven has been working its way through it.
Any thoughts?
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Yours in Christ
Timothy Michael Spong
Posts: 146 | From: Lagos, Nigeria | Registered: Nov 2005
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