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Author
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Topic: when is it sin??
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epouraniois
unregistered
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posted
‘Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried (or having become approved, dokimos), he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love Him’ (Jas. 1:12).
In Hebrews 4:15 where we read that Christ was ‘tempted in all points like as we are’.
Some project into this that Christ must have had a fallen nature, but is this what we are really reading here? The seriousness of the subject in the moral consequences of the words ‘tempted in all points like as we are’ are driven by the irresistible force of logic to affirm that He must therefore have had a ‘fallen nature’, even though He actually ‘did no sin’.
Let us look at two sections in Hebrews, for in them are found every occurrence of the words ‘tempt’ and ‘temptation’ in the epistle.
Heb. 3 to 6;
On to perfection
‘The Profession’
(Homologia)
(3:1; 4:14)
Let us come boldly.
Example of unbelief.
Perfect v Babes.
No renewal unto repentance.
Senses exercised.
Crucify afresh the Son.
Heb. 10:19 to 12:25;
Back to perdition
‘The Profession’
(Homologia/eo)
(10:23; 11:13)
Let us draw near.
Examples of faith.
Sons v Firstborn.
No place for repentance.
Trod under foot the Son.
Discipline exercised.
If these closely correspond subjects [by contrast] contain all the occurrences of ‘tempt’ and ‘temptation’ that are to be found in the epistle to the Hebrews, then those temptations must be intimately related to the two ideas of ‘perfection’ and ‘perdition’; with ‘going on’, or with ‘drawing back’. When we come to consider the first portion of Hebrews that contains the passage under review, we discover that its historic background is the story of Israel’s failure in the wilderness; a failure to ‘go on unto perfection’, with which the words ‘tempt’ and ‘temptation’ are closely interwoven.
Hebrews 2:17 to 4:16 - structure -
-2:17 to 3:1. tempted Succour Profession.
-3:2 to 4:11. ‘if’ The Temptation.
‘if’ They tempted Me.
-4:12 -16. tempted Help Profession.
A ‘profession’ is in view; something to ‘hold fast’; something involving trial and self -denial; something that may be lost. Further, with the structure before us, it is impossible to isolate Hebrews 4:15; we must ever keep in mind the temptation mentioned in chapter 3:
‘Your fathers tempted Me’ (Heb. 3:9), said God.
‘God cannot be tempted with evil’ is the categorical statement of Holy Writ (Jas. 1:13); consequently we are immediately faced with a fact concerning ‘temptation’ that must influence our views of Hebrews 2:18 and 4:15.
It is not only arouses aversion to common sense, but offensive and contrary to positive Scripture that God can, by any possibility, be ‘tempted’ to or by evil.
If we had continue the verse of Hebrews 3:9 we read, ‘when your fathers tempted Me, proved Me, and saw My works forty years’. ‘Proved’ is dokimazo, ‘to test, try, as a metal’. This meaning is borne out by the passages in Hebrews 11, ‘by faith Abraham, when he was tried (peirazo, "tempted"), offered up Isaac’ (Heb. 11:17). Shall we say that God tempted Abraham to sin when He made the great demand concerning Isaac? God forbid! not only because Scripture positively declares that God never tempts man to sin (Jas. 1:13), but also because a reading of Genesis 22 reveals that this ‘tempting’ was a ‘testing’ of Abraham’s faith, ‘now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from Me’ (Gen. 22:12).
Another word which occurs in Hebrews must be included in our examination and that is the word peira. This occurs twice in Hebrews:
* ‘By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying (making the attempt) to do were drowned’ (Heb. 11:29).
* ‘Others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings’ (11:36).
In neither passage can the idea of ‘tempting’ be discovered. In the first passage ‘attempt’ gives good English and incidentally reveals that, in our mother-tongue, the word ‘tempt’ means a ‘trial’ or an ‘ATtempt’. The other reference (Heb. 11:36) is but a variant of the word translated ‘tempted’, and needs no comment.
To complete the tale of occurrences of peirazo in Hebrews, one more reference must be included. In Hebrews 5:13 we find the negative, apeiros, where it is translated ‘unskilful’, which accords with the classical rendering ‘untried’ and ‘inexperienced’ and with the LXX usage:
‘Surely they shall not see the land, which I sware unto their fathers; but their children which are with Me here, as many as know not good or evil, every inexperienced (apeiros) youth, to them will I give the land; but none who have provoked Me shall see it’ (LXX Num. 14:23).
It is fast to recognize the influence of this LXX rendering in Hebrews 5:13,14, where the unskilful ‘babe’ is contrasted with the ‘perfect’ (A.V. full age), who discerns ‘good and evil’.
As they stand, the words ‘yet without sin’ in Hebrews 4:15, suggest to the English reader ‘yet without sinning’, as if our Lord was actually tempted to steal, to murder, to commit adultery, but resisted.
'Choris' is rendered by Dr. Bullinger ‘apart, asunder, apart from’. It comes from chorizo, ‘to put asunder’, ‘to separate’, as in Matthew 19:6 and Romans 8:39. In Hebrews itself we read, concerning the Saviour, that He was ‘holy, harmless, undefiled, separate(chorizo) from sinners’ (Heb. 7:26).
Dr. John Owen quotes the Syriac Version of Hebrews 4:15 as reading ‘sin being excepted’. J. N. Darby reads ‘sin apart’ and Rotherham reads ‘apart from sin’.
The positive witness of the epistle to the Hebrews as a whole, and of this expression in particular, is that the temptation referred to in the words ‘tempted in all points’ refers to the testings and trials of the pilgrim on his journey through the wilderness of this world, as he presses on to perfection; it does not refer to, or include, temptations to sin, but rather to the testings and trials of faith.
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
Did you resist the devil J4? Did you want to give into something and not? It sounds like that may be the case. If so.. Good for you little Bro!! That is excellent!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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BORN AGAIN
unregistered
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posted
dear brother J4Jesus, what I love about you is your directness; it's just terrific to read every time you write something.
that said, you wrote quote:
oh man.
When is temptation considered a sin?
If someone desires to steal but just grits their teeth and does not, what is that? Is that maybe RESISTING TEMPTATION?
thanks.
Acts 15:10
Now therefore why do you tempt God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
1 Corinthians 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
that said, since we are born sinful beings, all temptation can be and probably will be sinful to us, who are altogether born in sin.
but, thanks be to God, He has provided an escape for our sinful nature through the work on the cross that Jesus did on behalf of our sins.
sin? we will sin. we are born sinners. but we are also saved born sinners, by the grace of God only and by the grace of His Son only and by the grace of the Holy Spirit.
do we dare do much more than strike on our breast with a heartfelt realization of our sinful nature and say no more than:
Luke 18:13
But the publican {the hated tax-collector, collaborator with the Romans), standing afar off, would not so much as lift his eyes to heaven, but struck upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner."
God loves you brother J4Jesus, you are precious.
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
Exod.22
[2] If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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timspong
Advanced Member
Member # 5240
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by J4Jesus:
thanks timspong.
But what is better, Not Wanting to give in, or wanting to but not doing it anyway?
I've been told, that you can still be sinning even if you don't give in...
I think that we all constantly suffer on both levels. One is not necessarily worse than the other, just a different level of maturity towards that particular temptation. The more you resist the less hold it will have on you and you will move into the area of not wanting to give in.
Once you do give in you will start from scratch again, but with more experience in being able to deal with it the next time. Defeat is only when you give up, not when you fall.
The key is to focus on the path around the temptation, not the temptation itself.
I used to do a lot of mountain bike racing and if you had an obstical to get around, you focus on the path around it. If you focus on "not hitting the tree" you will hit it for sure.
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Yours in Christ
Timothy Michael Spong
Posts: 146 | From: Lagos, Nigeria | Registered: Nov 2005
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J4Jesus
unregistered
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posted
thanks timspong.
But what is better, Not Wanting to give in, or wanting to but not doing it anyway?
I've been told, that you can still be sinning even if you don't give in...
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timspong
Advanced Member
Member # 5240
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posted
Resisting temptation is exactly what God wants you to do and is the essence of righteousness. Not being tempted at all is not possible in this world, even Jesus was brought into temptation.
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Yours in Christ
Timothy Michael Spong
Posts: 146 | From: Lagos, Nigeria | Registered: Nov 2005
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J4Jesus
unregistered
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posted
oh man.
When is temptation considered a sin?
If someone desires to steal but just grits their teeth and does not, what is that? Is that maybe RESISTING TEMPTATION?
thanks.
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