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Topic: About Prayer
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epouraniois
unregistered
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posted
quote:
Saints, in the New Testament, are never deceased individuals who have been canonized by the church and given sainthood. They are living individuals who have dedicated themselves to the worship and service of the one true God as revealed through his Son, Jesus Christ.
ARe you saying that in the NT, there are no saints except for those who are alive in the flesh?
I like your verse selection by the way, and am praying that God renew a right spirit within you as well.
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
A non-believer IS NOT A SAINT.
A saint is one of those who have been set apart, sanctified. Never is an unbeliever connoted as a saint.
The word "saint" is derived from a Greek verb (hagiazo [aJgiavzw]) whose basic meaning is "to set apart, " "sanctify, " or "make holy." In the history of the Old Testament religion, the idea of holiness or separateness was inherent in the concept of God. God was unapproachable in the tabernacle or temple by the ordinary individual, being accessible only to the priests and only under carefully specified conditions. His presence (the Shekinah) dwelled in the Holy of Holies or the Most Holy Place, the most remote and inaccessible place in the wilderness tabernacle and later in the Jerusalem temple. Only the high priest was allowed to stand in God's presence in this area, and then only once a year at Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement).
This sacred place was further separated from the ordinary Jewish worshiper by another room called "the Holy Place, " which could be entered only by priests. The intent was to impress upon the people the utter holiness and sacredness of the God they worshiped, as well as the necessity of their being set apart or sanctified as saints in his service. This sense of Jehovah's separateness from the sins of the people and from the pagan idols of the lands in which they dwelled was the heart of Jewish monotheism. Its eventual disregard led to the destruction of the temple and the exile of Israel.
This idea of the separateness of God and his people is carried forward in the New Testament, which was written by Jews (except possibly Luke-Acts) who interpreted God's covenant with Israel through the teachings of Christ. Those who were dedicated to the teachings of Christ were frequently called saints by these writers (e.g., Matt 27:52; Acts 9:13; 26:10; Rev 14:12). Six of Paul's letters to churches are addressed to saints (Romans, 1-2 Corinthians, Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians).
Saints, in the New Testament, are never deceased individuals who have been canonized by the church and given sainthood. They are living individuals who have dedicated themselves to the worship and service of the one true God as revealed through his Son, Jesus Christ. Even the children of such parents are called "sanctified" (1 Cor 7:14-15). That is, they are considered undefiled by paganism if at least one of their parents is a Christian. All saved are sanctified, but not all sanctified are saved.
On occasion, when discussing the atonement, Paul carefully differentiates between Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians, calling the former saints and the latter believers. It was the saints, the holy people of God in the Old Testament, who brought the Messiah and redemption into the world, eventually extending the blessings to the Gentiles.
This usage may be seen in 1 Corinthians 1:2, which is addressed to "those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy [saints—Jewish Christians], together with all those [Gentiles] everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—Lord and ours." The same distinction is made in Ephesians 1:1: "to the saints [Jewish Christians] in Ephesus and the faithful [Gentiles] in Christ Jesus." Colossians is also addressed to "the holy and faithful brothers" in Christ.
Paul addresses the letter to all the Christians in Rome as saints (Rom 1:7, because Gentiles who, as wild olive branches have been grafted into the stem of Judaism, now share in the full relationship to that plant and are also saints ), but the Jewish Christians in Rome, who are to be recipients of a special contribution Paul collected among Gentile churches, are called "the saints" in distinction (Rom 15:25-33).
It is informative in this regard that Paul refers to this same collection in 2 Corinthians 8:1-4 as a sharing by the Macedonian churches with "the saints, " not with the "other" saints. Paul's apprehension over whether the Jerusalem saints would accept such a contribution was based on the fact that Jewish Christians were being asked to accept the offering from Gentile Christians. The entire discussion of the issue in Acts 21 when Paul arrived in Jerusalem makes this clear.
Thus, although Gentile Christians are saints, too, because they were given access to the faith of Abraham and the people of the Old Testament, when redemptive history is discussed the Jews are specially designated the "saints" while the Gentiles are considered believers who were later admitted into this "holy" Jewish nucleus.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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epouraniois
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posted
The Bible says our prayers should be two fold;
That we pray for the others that their eyes be enlightened that they may know what is the hope of His calling Eph1.17-23;
That we pray with all supplication for ALL SAINTS, that those who have the eyes of their understanding opened that utterance may be given them to speak boldy as they ought to speak, Eph6.19;
To make known what is the fellowship of the mystery which had been hid in God but is now being made known, Eph3.9;
Which is in perfect alignment with our great commission of Eph4.3, which is no less than that given in Gen3.24.
The Church of the one body has no earthly blessings, for the present purpose has to do with the very aristocracy of heaven being made to know something of the manifold wisdom of God by the church, Eph3.10
Eph 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
Col3.1-4.
If we are to understand God's Word, we must get the divine viewpoint. We must have some idea of the plan and purpose of the ages. We must know something of God and His character so that we may look at things as He would. Without this understanding, all truth will be out of focus and distorted.
Let us look at the expression ALL SAINTS as it occurs in Ephesians:
1:15 Love unto ALL SAINTS.
3:18 Comprehend with ALL SAINTS.
6:18 Praying for ALL SAINTS.
These saints are nothing else but saved sinners. Eph. 1:1-14 gives the scope of the work of God in behalf of these who are in the dispensation of the mystery. You have there, the will of the Father, the work of the Son, and the witness (seal) of the Spirit. Now we do not look about and try to discern who are saints and who are not. In the eye of the flesh we are not to judge. We cannot judge, unless we see them as God sees them; in Christ.
In connection with first reference, Paul speaks of their faith in the Lord Jesus. That came first. Then their love unto all the saints. Both these facts are a ground of thanksgiving on the part of Paul. In fact, it is a ceaseless thanksgiving. He makes mention of them in his prayers. Paul's prayers rose somewhat above his little wants and blessings! May it be so with us. When Paul starts his epistle to the Ephesians, he first speaks, "Blessed be God ... Who hath blessed us."
Sure, we should ask for light and guidance in the study of the Word. It is fine to pray for the power to speak to the unsaved. But how often do we stop to pray for the spirit of wisdom and unveiling in the
knowledge of Him?
Are we speaking of our hope, or His? Our inheritance, or His? Do we think of our own things instead of the things of others? It may be that we need more love to ALL SAINTS. This lack of love for the saints will give a man the eyes of an eagle for finding fault, but totally blind him to spiritual things. The remedy; love to ALL SAINTS.
Do we realize that we have been chosen...in love? Do we realize that we have been accepted in the Beloved? Do we have any comprehension of the great love wherewith He loved us?
All this love is of grace. It was not because of us and our merits, but in His Son. Let us be careful lest we deny others what has been so freely lavished on us.
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BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois writes quote:
James 5:16-18
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Elijah was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. {Jam 5:16-18}
We may think that that was alright for Elijah, but I couldn't do a thing like that. This man, this man knew how to pray. But why? Why could Elijah shut the heaven, and then open the heaven?
Well, he did it, not because he was a man of tremendous power, but he did it because he knew the word of God. And he knew God's plan, something of it, and something of God's promises. And all he was doing was praying to claim those gracious and wonderful promises that were his. Deut, the 11th chapter:
And it shall come to pass, if you shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul, That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that you may gather in your corn, and your wine, and your oil. {Deu11:13-14}
The corn and the oil and the wine have additional spiritual significance, as well as the former and the later rain. God speaks to us on multiple levels, so there is always more to any verse than is possible to fully plumb, but I stick to the subject of prayer.
The subject is the same for us, and the question is then, what is it the Bible instructs us in the present time to be praying for? {bold by BA}
good question, epouranios. I find myself praying for friends to be healed and saved and I pray for myself, that the Lord will protect me and give me joy and good humor and pleasantness today, to grant me favor among the unbelievers, and so on.
what do you think we should be praying for, or, to put it better, what do you say the Bible says we should pray for?
God bless, I am BORN AGAIN in the USA
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epouraniois
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posted
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Elijah was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. {Jam 5:16-18}
We may think that that was alright for Elijah, but I couldn't do a thing like that. This man, this man knew how to pray. But why? Why could Elijah shut the heaven, and then open the heaven?
Well, he did it, not because he was a man of tremendous power, but he did it because he knew the word of God. And he knew God's plan, something of it, and something of God's promises. And all he was doing was praying to claim those gracious and wonderful promises that were his. Deut, the 11th chapter:
And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul, That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil. {Deu11:13-14}
The corn and the oil and the wine have additional spiritual significance, as well as the former and the later rain. God speaks to us on multiple levels, so there is always more to any verse than is possible to fully plumb, but I stick to the subject of prayer.
The subject is the same for us, and the question is then, what is it the Bible instructs us in the present time to be praying for?
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