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Author Topic: Christian Sinners
Carmela
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nanileigh I think each case is treated differently. See, the bible makes it clear that sin is sin and if we don't repent, we are separated from God.

However, many people call themselves Christians but they don't live a Christian lifestyle. So, they are not really Christians. The bible says to judge a person by the fruit of the spirit. So, if someone says they are a Christian but you are not seeing any Godly fruit or Godly changed in their lives, they are not Christians. Yet, I choose not to judge them. Instead, I choose to love them and become friends with them. WHY? Because the only way we can really witness to someone is by first letting them know that they can trust us and that we truly do care about them. However, they can tell if we are sincere or not so we must really love them, not be pretending. Then, we can start to disciple them. Many people think it's easy to just tell someone how it should be and walk away, how that usually only results in more rebellion from the person in sin. However, if we love them and help direct their path, we are being a Christ-like example in their lives.

None of us are perfect though. I am a good person, I'm in bible school, I love God and read my bible a lot, but I'm certainly not perfect and those closest to me know it. Actually, I'm pretty transparent because I don't try to wear a mask and pretend to be something I'm not but either way, I still sin and fall short. I have been a Christian long enough that when someone confronts me I may take it well or I may get upset if someone didn't approach me properly but I always take what is said to me before the Lord because I don't want to live in sin. Sometimes we are not aware of our sins and it takes someone pointing it out to us, or God shows me. Then, I need to repent and change it. If I'm not repenting, then I cause a separation between me and God. Fortunately we serve a very patient and loving God that doesn't easily give up on us so I can run for a while but when I'm ready to turn back to God, He accepts me back in with open, loving arms.

My point is, we can't judge a book by it's cover. Some people look like great Christians, but they are not. Some are just beginning the Christian walk and need love and guidance and it's our job to see the get it.

No matter where we are, God loves us the same. He even loves the unbelievers so we are to do the same. We should be showing love to everyone because that is what draws people to Christianity, no matter where they are at. Jesus met people where they were, and we should do the same.

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Posts: 646 | From: Central New York | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BORN AGAIN
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Thanks for posting those verses on repentance, wparr.

I think it depends on what "repentance" means. It cannot mean "I fix all my problems" before I become a Christian.

I currently think "repentance" means two things: "repent from believing in dumb idols and turn to the Living God" and "repent from our wicked ways in the sense that we agree with God that these are sinful behaviors and that, with the help of the Holy Spirit, our desire is to become more in line with God's opinion".

To me, that is "repentance".

For instance, God granted repentance to the people assembled at Cornelius, but we know that the Holy Spirit fell on those assembled in the house of Cornelius "before any of them had a chance to change their behaviors". Yet is was said that "repentance was granted to them".

So to me "repent" is "turning from dumb idols to the Living God" and "agreeing with God about what is sin".

And then only afterwards, with the help of the Holy Spirit, will Christians be able to make "lifestyle and behavior changes" (and some are much easier to clean up than others).

When I finally believed the Word that I had read, I still had not made any changes in my life, but over time, my interests changed to Godly interests and I've probably mellowed out a bit too; I know I have been "reined in" by the Word and am no longer "so out there" (although compared to some here I'm probably still "somewhat out there"). [thumbsup2]

God bless, [Cross] BORN AGAIN

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nanileigh
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Born Again,
You wrote: nanileigh, how do you know that those homosexuals who have become Christians have no remorse?

First of all, just to make it clear, I was not gearing the question to pick on homosexuality, I was just using it as an example. The original intent was to ask what the bible had to say about Christians who claim Jesus as their savior, yet continue to blatantly sin without remorse.... those who chose to live life according to their own means. Second, I am by no means saying that all homosexual christians aren't repentant or remorseful. But there are those, such as Dr. Louie Crew, who believe that homosexuality is not a sin and therefore do not feel remorseful.

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KnowHim
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To attempt to combine immorality with godliness to produce spiritual fruit is completely contrary to scriptural teaching. In fact, Paul ranks it with "profane and vain babblings" and warns Timothy to avoid "contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge" (1 Tim. 6:20).

Should we just assume that all those who claim to be Christians are saved, no matter how they are living? No, the burden of proof is on the person who claims to be a new creation in Christ. Anyone who says he knows Christ as Savior should prove it by living a life that supports his claim. Paul said of such persons, "'The Lord knows those who are His,' and, 'Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity'" (2 Tim. 2:19).

The apostle John indicated that some who depart from the faith reveal that they were never really saved in the first place. He wrote, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us" (1 Jn. 2:19). Given such possibilities, all we can do is conclude that a person either is or is not giving evidence of having eternal life. God alone is his Judge.

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire" (2 Pet. 2:20-22).

The illustration at the end of this passage shows us that Peter was not implying a loss of salvation. Since the dog was still a dog, and the pig was still a pig, they both went back to their own natural ways. Both returned because neither had experienced an essential change of nature. At best, both had merely been cleaned, combed, pampered, and flattered.

This is the best explanation for those who appear to have completely lost any faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. But if the truth were known, they never had it. They may have enjoyed many of the benefits of the truth and people of God for a while, but it had never resulted in a real change of heart. They had grown up among the wheat as hard-to-tell-the-difference weeds (tares). But in time they showed their true colors. John explained that, in leaving, they made it clear that their salvation was not the real thing (1 Jn. 2:19).

1 John 1:5 (KJV)
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

You are not born-again if there is no proof of the new birth. You must be born-again!
That means, there will be a new life, not the same old person you were.

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RedeemTheTime
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BornAgain, Perhaps there is a lack of understanding of what you are saying. It is very difficult with just our words in writing to convey what we really mean when we cannot be face to face.

As has been posted above there are many verses on repentance. It's an attitude in the heart at salvation. It's a total willingness and desire to change and please the Lord and an ability to see ourselves as God sees us...totally sinful and unable to change/save ourselves and a total surrender to the Lord. If that has taken place, God says that old things are passed away and all things are become new. We will have new desires. Yes, we still have our sin nature while in this human body, but we now have the power through God to say No and turn from what God says is wrong and to turn to Him, his Word and righteousness. It doesn't happen all at once but it does happen.

Perhaps what I have written will be misunderstood I don't know, but I wanted to contribute to this. Thanks to all!:-)

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wparr
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So BA Are you saying that you don't beleive in repentance as neccesary for salvation??


Luke 13:3-5 NASB
(3) "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
(4) "Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem?
(5) "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."


(Luke 24:46-47 NASB) and He said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.


Luke 5:32 NASB
"I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."


(Acts 2:38 NASB) Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


(Acts 11:18 NASB) When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."


(Mark 6:12 NASB) They went out and preached that men should repent.


2 Corinthians 7:9-10 NASB
(9) I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
(10) For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.


(Acts 3:19 NASB) "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;


(Revelation 3:19 NASB) 'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

(2 Peter 3:9 NASB) The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

(Acts 17:30 NASB) "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,


Romans 2:4-5 NASB
(4) Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
(5) But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,


No, I didn't think you could ever believe such stupid garbage as unrepentace being acceptable

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Caretaker
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When the false teachers reject the Word of God, and teach that homosexuality is not a sin, then the sin becomes justified and no repentence sought.


http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/7/152005a.asp

(AgapePress) - The official retreat center for the Southeast Jurisdiction of the United Methodist Church is taking heat for its plans to host a convocation put on by major pro-homosexual caucus groups within Methodism.

The Labor Day weekend conference at Lake Junaluska in North Carolina will focus on how to lobby to overturn the church's teachings on marriage and sex, and lobby for the acceptance of same-sex "marriage" and practicing homosexual clergy. Called "Hearts of Fire," the conference is being organized by the pro-homosexual Methodist group Reconciling Congregations. According to that group's website, one forum will "explore the development of transgender and gender queer spirituality" as well as the "sources of gendering." Participants are encouraged to "come with a robust interest in all things gender, whether or not they themselves are gender non-normative."

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A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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BORN AGAIN
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Dear sister nanileigh, greetings, thanks for participating. You write
quote:
What does the bible say about people who claim to be Christ followers yet openly and blatantly commit sin without remorse (ie Christian Homosexuals?)
nanileigh, how do you know that those homosexuals who have become Christians have no remorse?

Among the sins to get rid off, homosexuality is probably the “crack cocaine of behaviors” to try to get rid of. To be sure, a Christian homosexual has to read that the LORD says that it is a sin for man to lie sexually with another man and for woman to lie sexually with another woman, and that Christian has to acknowledge that the LORD says that.

One problem with sin of homosexuality is that persons engaged in it often “like it” as much as heterosexuals “like theirs”. It is therefore “not an easy sin to stop”. It’s not like the sin of “beating somebody up to rob them” and it’s not like the sin of “holding a gun to someone’s head and pulling the trigger” and “it’s not a sin like cheating” and “it’s not a sin like stealing”, it’s a sin that is often even “liked” because it is sexual.

I thank my God and My Lord that as a bornagain Christian, homosexuality is NOT one of the sins I have to “get rid of” before others will consider me a bornagain Christian.

"Justice has been paid for: mercy is coming next for the Christian." Should s/he say, "I cannot stop being a homosexual, therefore I shall stop being a Christian believer in Christ"?

God forbid.

With love, BORN AGAIN, by the [Cross]

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Brother Watcher writes
quote:
We are dead in our trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1) and until we forsake them through repentance, we cannot be made alive in Christ. {bold by BORN AGAIN}
I thought we were made alive in Christ by believing in Christ as my Sacrifice, my Passover Lamb, and then when I received the Holy Spirit (“being made alive in Christ”) and I read the Word I corrected some of my behavior—I became “reined in” by the LORD God of Israel and His Family.

Because if my being made alive in Christ “depended on me “forsaking them through repentance”, at what point of “forsaking sins” have I gotten “rid of enough sins” to now “qualify for “being made alive in Christ”?

Salvation and justification is therefore given us freely through belief. And after that the Holy Spirit and the Word talk to me with the intent of changing my mind about my “interests”. So, Watcher, I see it as the other way around than you?

God bless, BORN AGAIN [Cross]

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Watcher
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The Bible makes it clear that God is holy and man is sinful, and that sin makes a separation between the two (Isaiah 59:1,2). Without repentance from sin, wicked men cannot have fellowship with a holy God. We are dead in our trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1) and until we forsake them through repentance, we cannot be made alive in Christ.

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Watcher

Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house. He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
Proverbs 17:13,15

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HisGrace
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The scriptures are pretty clear.

Leviticus 18:22
Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.

The scriptures are pretty clear. There are cases where Christians realize that it is a sin, but are not automatically 'healed' when they are converted. Sometimes in takes intense counselling and prayer support before they are completely cleansed from homosexual thoughts.

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nanileigh
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What does the bible say about people who claim to be Christ followers yet openly and blatantly commit sin without remorse (ie Christian Homosexuals?)
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