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Topic: The second Exodus will be far greater than the first Exodus
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WKUHilltopper
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
Jeremiah 29:22
And of them shall be taken up a curse by all the captivity of Judah who are in Babylon, saying, The LORD make you like Zedekiah and like Ahab, whom the king of Babylon roasted in the fire.
(Wow?!? Ahab was roasted in the fire? I never knew that before.)
Wow! And all this time I thought Moby Dick got Ahab....
Sorry, bad joke!
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
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decibel
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I agree with you that we are all one in Yeshua, However here is my take and view of what Paul was saying with Gal. 3:28
GALATIANS 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (NKJV)
Many use these verses to try and show that no physical or racial differences should exist within the body of Yeshua. That was not Paul's point. He gives us three pairs: (1) Jew/Greek; (2) slave/free; and (3) male/female. Obviously there still exists differences between all these groups.
Paul was saying that each has equal access to God's salvation. As children of God, each is an heir, along with Yeshua, of the promises made to Abraham.
There will always be differences, like Gentile and Israelite, but we are still one under Yeshua and His law.
Also to my understanding the Greeks he was refering to were the House of Israel that had become like the Greeks, or nations. So Paul was using the example of Jews from the House of Judah and Greeks or Gentiles from the Houses of Israel, beacause for centuries each believed that just because they were physical decendants of Abraham that they were with God. Howerer this is not the case. You must have faith and be baptised in Yeshua.
One other question Hitch.
Why is it so hard for people to accept the fact that maybe they are not as they have been taught all their life, a Gentile?? Why has this become such a touchy subject for people?? Is it simply because this is all they have known and been taught and anything else must be a false teaching or cult??
I consider myself open to anything from God, even if it goes against my own myths and beliefs. I just don't want to fail Him with wrong ideologies. Even though everyone else might think one way, if God shows me another way I will follow. Once this whole subject was revealed to me, it was like putting the round block in the round hole. It just fit!!
Posts: 21 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2005
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Hitch
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quote:
Originally posted by decibel:
quote:
Originally posted by Hitch:
There is niether jew nor greek....
Hitch, I agree with your quote from Galations 3:28. How can I not, It comes directly from the Bible. The problem I have with this is that people seem to use this one particular verse to defend their point that people who are Gentiles and find out they are Israelites cannot call themselves Israelites, because it just doesn't matter any more. Again, I agree that there is no real difference between an Israelite and a Gentile, we are all one under Yeshua. However to defend your whole point on one verse when. If you look at all the verses throughout the Bible pertaining to this topic, or check out many of BORN AGAIN's studies here about this topic, to me anyways it became pretty obvious.
I am not trying to dog you Hitch, I am just trying to stand up for what I believe and learn in the process. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
One verse for one verse! lol
Isaiah 14:1 The Lord will have compasion on Jacob; once again he will choose Israel and will settle them in their own land. Aliens will join them and unite with the house of Jacob.
Sometimes one is all that is necessary. Jesus said once that 'you must be born-again'. Still much of the NT is writen to explain and confirm that one statement.
Paul's overall messages is one of unity. He tells the jewish believers that the Gentile converts are equal before God ,being grafted in to the tree. Just as he tells the Gentile believers that the Gospel came first to the jews, and one way he does this is his teaching of the gentiles being grafted into the tree. Works both ways. The greater point is that there is one tree. Much of the NT is written to explain and confirm this point.
I am not trying to dog you Hitch, I am just trying to stand up for what I believe and learn in the process. As you should and I appreciate your addressing of the topic and/or objections.
take care
Hitch
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decibel
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quote:
Originally posted by Hitch:
There is niether jew nor greek....
Hitch, I agree with your quote from Galations 3:28. How can I not, It comes directly from the Bible. The problem I have with this is that people seem to use this one particular verse to defend their point that people who are Gentiles and find out they are Israelites cannot call themselves Israelites, because it just doesn't matter any more. Again, I agree that there is no real difference between an Israelite and a Gentile, we are all one under Yeshua. However to defend your whole point on one verse when. If you look at all the verses throughout the Bible pertaining to this topic, or check out many of BORN AGAIN's studies here about this topic, to me anyways it became pretty obvious.
I am not trying to dog you Hitch, I am just trying to stand up for what I believe and learn in the process.
One verse for one verse! lol
Isaiah 14:1 The Lord will have compasion on Jacob; once again he will choose Israel and will settle them in their own land. Aliens will join them and unite with the house of Jacob.
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Trust Me, Not What You See!!
Yeshua
Posts: 21 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2005
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Hitch
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quote:
Originally posted by decibel:
quote:
Originally posted by Hitch:
Our 'job' is to make disciples of the nations and it matters not one wit who is in our bloodlines.
k, but what if our bloodlines were needed to be revealed to fulfill prophecy?? I know you have stated you believe that Ezekiel 37:15-23 has already been fulfilled, stated above. That God, in your opinion, already brought the house of Israel and the house of Judah together. What if He hasn't yet?? Since the house of Israel was 'lost' and lost their identity, wouldn't they have to be awaken to who they are in order to understand what to do. Also, a bit off topic, what about the 144000 in revelations 7?? If that is to be fulfilled, would not all those who are decendants from those Tribes have to be awaken to who they are as well?? Just a thought! In my opinion I believe bloodline is important. Not as important as a relationship with Yeshua, but something that will help in understanding Him more and clarify His job here on earth.
"I (Yeshua/Jesus) am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." MATTHEW 15:24
There is niether jew nor greek....
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decibel
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Thanks helpforhomeschoolers!!
I will absolutlely look into the Sceptor and the Birthright topic.
It is nice to know that I am not alone with these thougths. I searched on another large Forum asking about this topic but I was banned, with no explanation. They must have labled me as a British Israel as well, who knows. That was a big dissapointment to me, but through that God led me here. So it was worth it.
One question, what is a preterist?? I have never heard that before.
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Trust Me, Not What You See!!
Yeshua
Posts: 21 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2005
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decibel
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quote:
Originally posted by Hitch:
Our 'job' is to make disciples of the nations and it matters not one wit who is in our bloodlines.
k, but what if our bloodlines were needed to be revealed to fulfill prophecy?? I know you have stated you believe that Ezekiel 37:15-23 has already been fulfilled, stated above. That God, in your opinion, already brought the house of Israel and the house of Judah together. What if He hasn't yet?? Since the house of Israel was 'lost' and lost their identity, wouldn't they have to be awaken to who they are in order to understand what to do. Also, a bit off topic, what about the 144000 in revelations 7?? If that is to be fulfilled, would not all those who are decendants from those Tribes have to be awaken to who they are as well?? Just a thought! In my opinion I believe bloodline is important. Not as important as a relationship with Yeshua, but something that will help in understanding Him more and clarify His job here on earth.
"I (Yeshua/Jesus) am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." MATTHEW 15:24
Posts: 21 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2005
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Hi Decible: You are not the only one who sees these things here. There are a few of us and none of us I think would claim the label British Israelism , but some people just have a need to fit people into little boxes and make presumptions of what they believe. I know that there is not one of us that would deny that the Gospel is to be sown in all the nations without regard to anyone's background or anything else!
Born Again is sadly no longer with us, but he has a wealth of good information on this board regrding this subject. He was reading a book called the Scepter and the Birthright and there is a thread here of that title that you may want to search for and read. It is very interesting.
Our brother Born Again was several years ago on this board the closest thing to a preterist that I can think of without labeling him..which I would not do as he was one who cared much more what the Bible said than to take on Boxey Labels that say if you believe this... then you must be a this and also believe that.. BA is one who serches the word with much diligence and studies very deeply paying attention to detail and cares much more about what the Bible says than any man's self proclaimed doctrines and he believed the WHOLE counsel of the scriptures was for our benefit.... I believe that the Lord led him through his study and through his fellowships here away from many of those preterist beliefs.
His particular interest in this area was a blessing to me.. it may be for you as well, so you might look for some other of his posts on the subject. Particularly the one titled the Sceptor and the Birthright.
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Hitch
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Our 'job' is to make disciples of the nations and it matters not one wit who is in our bloodlines.
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decibel
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quote:
Originally posted by Hitch:
This all happened a long time ago. And this British Israel nonsense is just that.
Well, I am not involved with British Israel and I don't really know who they are. What I have read here through BORN AGAIN's study posts are a direct conformation to me what God has been showing me. Hitch if you don't choose to accept this ideology and believe it to be nonsense that is fine, but I do, and I stand by what I wrote in my above post.
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Trust Me, Not What You See!!
Yeshua
Posts: 21 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2005
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Hitch
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11And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
13The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
14But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.
15And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.
16And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.
The first is the return from Egypt. the second time is the return from Assyria and other nations.
This all happened a long time ago. And this British Israel nonsense is just that.
Hitch
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decibel
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
Christians are often talking about the "rapture" and how people will be "Left Behind", but what will happen among the heathen-Gentile nations in terms of the resurrection of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah coming out of their graves everywhere and heading for the land of Israel, will be equally astonishing, and yet hardly anyone ever preaches on it, probably because it is not very well understood by most Christians.
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
I completely agree!! I am one of those Christians who had never heard about this topic, even though I grew up in a Christian home and went to church all my life. I believe I was blinded to this topic for a reason. About a month ago through certain circumstances, God opened my eyes to this topic, and a fire has been set in me about this.
Here is a thought, which I think you might be getting at, with all your posts. The Tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim are represented today by Britain (commonwealth) and America. In these nations (the west) are the decendants of the 'lost 10 tribes' or House of Israel. Many of us who live in these nations and who believe we are Gentiles, are actually Israelites from the house of Israel, with a job to do.
Am I on target BORN AGAIN??
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Trust Me, Not What You See!!
Yeshua
Posts: 21 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2005
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BORN AGAIN
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Galatians 3:17
And this I say, that the covenant that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law which was 430 years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of no effect.
The promise to which Paul refers is the promise that a seed or Messiah would come from the family of Abram-Abraham and Sarai-Sarah and Isaac-Rebekah and Jacob-Leah and Judah and Jacob-Rachel-Joseph-Ephraim.
On Jacob’s deathbed in Misr Egypt, Jacob divided the Abrahamic promises to Jacob-Leah Judah, giving Judah the sceptre and line of kings promises, which included the one seed, the King of Israel, would come from Jacob-Leah Judah.
And from Jacob-Rachel-Joseph would come the Ephraim birthright promises, namely “a multitude of people, as the stars of heaven and as the sand of the sea for multitude” and “become many nations” and “possess the gates of his enemies” and “have an inheritance in the land of Canaan”.
Then the Exodus from Misr Egypt occurred, and then the law was added at mount Sinai because of Israel’s sins:
Galatians 3:19
What purpose then serves the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Once the seed came to Judah, the law was done away with because it was no longer needed. The law was given to help bridge the gap from the promises given to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob until the seed of the promise was there, namely the Lord kurios Yahshua-Jesus. Once He came, the law was done away with:
Hebrews 8:13
In that He says, A new covenant, He has made the first {covenant} old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.
The Messiah or Christ was here, of whom many things in the law were the shadow. But the Messiah came from the three-tribed kingdom of Judah and not from the ten-tribed kingdom of Israel {led by Joseph-Ephraim}, and there are many things in the prophets like Isaiah and Hosea and Jeremiah which are not yet fulfilled because those things have nothing to do with the house of Judah which produced the Messiah or King of Israel, but has to do with the house of Israel.
Like the promise of when the members of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah will come out of their graves in the countries where they have been driven and died, and the house of Israel and the house of Judah will come up out of their graves in the Gentiles’ countries and head to the land of Israel.
This has not yet happened. The LORD God of Israel sayd that this Exodus will be far greater than the Exodus from Egypt:
Jeremiah 16
13 Therefore will I cast you out of this land into a land that you know not, neither you nor your fathers; and there shall you serve other gods day and night; where I will not show you favor.
14 Therefore, behold, the days come, says the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD lives, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
15 But, The LORD lives, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north and from all the lands where He had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave to their fathers.
Ezekiel 37:12
Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus says the Lord GOD; Behold, O My people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
Hosea 1:10
10Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, You are not My people, there it shall be said to them, [b]You are the sons of the living God.”
Hosea 1:11
Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
When this day happens, then the dispensation of the Church ends among the Gentiles, and then the events of the “day of the LORD” begin, as the house of Israel and the house of Judah and the proselytes from the Gentiles head for the land of Israel:
Isaiah 49:22
Thus says the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up My hand to the Gentiles, and set up My standard to the people: and they shall bring your sons in their arms, and your daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders {of the Gentiles}.”
These are the promises made to Joseph-Ephraim which had nothing to do with Judah’s promises. The law was mostly kept by Judah who had the temple and kept the law in Judah until 70 A.D.
But the house of Israel had gone into captivity to Assyria and to the cities of the Medes in 721 B.C., and never came back to their land of Samaria. Never. Because the house of Israel was to become “not My people” among the Gentiles while Judah was tending to the law:
Hosea 2:23
And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her who had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them who were not My people, You are My people; and they shall say, You are my God.
Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, You are not My people. THERE it shall be said to them, “You are the sons of the living God.”
These events are all part of the promises given to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and Judah and Joseph-Ephraim, which promises preceded the law and which promises also succeeded the law.
Yahshua-Jesus is here and Yahshua-Jesus of Judah is making Christians out of the house of Israel among the Gentiles, so that among the Gentiles, the house of Israel are becoming “Christianized sons of the living God”, while among the Gentiles.
This is the dispensation or age of the church Christianizing the house of Israel among the Gentiles (while also accepting Gentile converts), and this age will last until the day of the LORD when the house of Israel and the house of Judah (and presumably also the proselytes of the Gentiles?) will come up out of their graves and will all head for the land of Israel.
Isaiah 11:11
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people, who shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt {where Jeremiah was with the king’s daughters}, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
The isles of the sea {where Jeremiah took the king’s daughters of the Judah-Pharez-Zedekiah branch and married the Judah-Pharez-Zedekiah king’s daughters to princes of the Judah-Zarah branch of Judah) (Zarah was the twin brother of Pharez, and Zarah had stuck his hand out of the womb first and the midwife put a scarlet thread on Zarah’s wrist.
Do yo think that the scarlet thread was tied to the wrist to just make a cute Bible story? Think again.
These Judah-Zarah kings who married Judah-Pharez queens became the kings of north Ireland and later kings of Scotland and later kings of Angli-England, or the isles of the sea of the Bible where the Bible says the house of Israel would be:
Isaiah 24:15
Wherefore glorify you the LORD in the fires, even the name of the LORD God of Israel in the isles of the sea.
Jeremiah 31:10
Hear the word of the LORD, O you nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He who scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd does His flock.
Will we Christians get to see this happen?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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BORN AGAIN
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Christians are often talking about the "rapture" and how people will be "Left Behind", but what will happen among the heathen-Gentile nations in terms of the resurrection of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah coming out of their graves everywhere and heading for the land of Israel, will be equally astonishing, and yet hardly anyone ever preaches on it, probably because it is not very well understood by most Christians.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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yahsway
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BA, I believe their (Judah/Jews) role was to go back to the land first, which they did and became a nation in 1948.
Notice it says "In His days Judah shall be saved"
I believe historically, for 1900 years, Yahweh has had two witnesses in the earth. Ephraim and Judah or better said the Christians and the Jews.
I believe that scripture says that Jacob proclaimed that the descendents of Ephriam would become a melo hagoyim which translates "fullness of Gentiles".
So the question is, where is Ephriam today? Could he possibly be among the non-Jewish believers?
We know that Ephraim becam "LoAmi" (not a people) and was swallowed up among the nations. They were therefor lost to their Israelite identity. (Hosea 1:10 2:1, 21-23 8:8 Rom 9:23 Amos 9:9
Ephraim is lost to and thus is ignorant of his Israelite heritage (Hosea 1-2 4:1,6 Jer 31:18-19)
Reunited Israel wull be sinless, will not be uprooted from the Promised land and Yeshua will reign over them ( Is 11:11-14 Jer 3:14-18 16:11-16 50:4-5,20 Zech 8:3,7,13 9:13 10:7,8,10 Hos 11:10 Obad 1:18 1 Sam 17:45 Ezek 37:22-26 Isa 27:9
In the New Covenant, non-Jweish believers are said to be "former gentiles". Once they come to faith in Messiah of Israel they are no longer heathens, but are instead called to begin walking as Israelites, and are part of that commonwealth (Eph 2:11-22 Matt 18:17 5:47 6:2 2Corinth 6:17 1Thess 4:5 1Pet 2:12)
The word "adoption" is used only 5 times in scripture and all of the verses speak of believers becoming sons of God (Abraham is not even mentioned) All who would be Yahwehs sons, Jew and non Jew alike, MUST recieve the spirit of adoption, which is specifically said to "belong to the sons of Israel" (Romans 8:15,16,23 9:4 Gal 4:5 Eph 1:5
Ephraim is destined to return to the land in rightousness, in m ight, and in power (Jer 31:21, Ezek 37:23 Hos 1:10 zEC 10:7)
Our Father declared a latter day plan to reunite the 2 houses, both will come to repentance and both will be joined to one another in power. see (Duet 33:7 Micah 5:3 Zech 8:23 Jer 3:17-18 50:4 Daniel 7:27 Hosea 11:8-
If you read the parable of the prodigal son, you can see Ephraim and Judah. Ephraim being that prodigal son, returning to His Father. Judah, who stayed with the Father and his jealousy toward Ephraim. Judah was provoked to jealousy by the Father's love poured out on the "lost son", the feast and celebration he heard from the field. We as christians need to provoke our brothers to jealousy, to want what we have. Though we have kept to the Grace of our Father, Judah has kept to the laws of our Father. Law and Grace, 2 witnesses of Gods word from Genesis to Revelation. Judeo/Christians, 2 witnesses in the earth of the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
We, who being afar off from the promises of God, brought nigh by the blood of Yeshua and the Fathers love and grace. Brought into the commonwealth of Israel. Partakers of all that the Father has to offer. Ephraim is us, Christian Israelites, the Fullness of Gentiles. We will one day be reunited with our brothers the Jews who will believe and togethere we will be the Whole house of Israel. Yeshua raising up the Tabernacle of David once again. Shalom
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BORN AGAIN
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Jeremiah 16
14 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
15 But, The LORD lives, who brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.
Jeremiah 29:22
And of them shall be taken up a curse by all the captivity of Judah who are in Babylon, saying, The LORD make you like Zedekiah and like Ahab, whom the king of Babylon roasted in the fire.
(Wow?!? Ahab was roasted in the fire? I never knew that before.)
Jeremiah 33:7
And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first.
Note that there are two captivities spoken of, the captivity of Judah which went to Babylon, and the captitivity of Israel which went to Assyria 140 years before that.
Both captivities will be returning from among the nations.
That has not happened yet. The Bible foretells that the graves of the house of Israel will be opened while the house of Israel is in the nations:
Ezekiel 37:12
Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O My people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
This has not happened yet.
Ezekiel 37:13
And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up out of your graves.
Jeremiah 16
14 Therefore, behold, the days come, says the LORD {God of Israel}, that it shall no more be said, The LORD lives, who brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
16 But, {it shall be said} The LORD lives, who brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north and from all the lands where He had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave to their fathers.
Isaiah 11:11
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall set His hand again the SECOND TIME to recover the remnant of His people, who shall be left from Assyria {where Israel was taken captive}, and from Egypt {where the remnant of Judah went with Jeremiah}, and from Pathros, and from Kush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea {where the house of Israel currently is}.
Isaiah 62:2
And the Gentiles shall see your righteousness, and all kings your glory: and you shall be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.
Jeremiah 23
5 Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In His days shall Judah be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is His name whereby He shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
My question is about the people who are currently in the land of Israel since 1948, what is their role?
May the LORD God of Israel bless this BBS, I am BORN AGAIN by the of Yahshua-Jesus, born of the family of David in Bethlehem-Judah (Micah 5:2) ("...I'm just fishin'...")
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