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yahsway
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Thats a good site BecauseHeLives, thanks for the info! Shalom
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yahsway
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Greetings Good News for All,

You will have to buy the tape to see for yourself. There was one at that table with a hidden camera and I know who he is. He is at another christian board call Worthyboards. He worked with Hinn ministries for several years.

But if you dont want to check it out for yourself, then read Jackie Alnors comments and views about what she sees and hears at these mens crusades.


And i must say that if you listen to men like Benny Hinn and others I wont mention here at present, then you are are already "suckered up" into one of the biggest "smear campaign" there is today. Yeshua warned us of the Apostasy and falling away in the church body and it is here today, His words being fullfilled before our very eyes.

I have not neither do I know much about Billy Graham, but let me say this. I do know a lot about Robert Schullers beliefs and they are "universal" salvation beliefs, a belief I do not hold.

Shalom

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becauseHElives
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Good NewsforAll
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12, "Because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth." Do you have enough love for the genuine truth of God's word that you will obey it instead of a counterfeit doctrine of man? If you do not then God has promised to send you a strong delusion that you should believe a lie and be damned. The false doctrines of men will cause many good people to be eternally lost.

There are known as blind as those who will not see.

Matthew 15:14, "And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a ditch."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1249269438715164313&q=Billy+Graham&hl=en

This tape answers lots of questions… 1hr and 47 minutes length

If you don’t want to listen to it all listen from 1:29:05 to 1:35:05 (that's less than 5 mins.)

If you’re interested in the whole truth listen to it all, find out what Billy Graham and other are doing to unite the Protestant Churches with the Great Whor1e of Roman Catholicism.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
Hey becauseHeLives, I saw the video where Benny Hinn is giving Steve Brock and others a pipe to smoke, looks like one of those pipes from India.

Naturally they don't show any trailers, because it has to be all fake. I won't be suckered into this smear campaign for one second. [Frown]

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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"


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yahsway
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Greetings Good NewsforAll.

You may get a copy of the video which is presented by The Christian Sentinel by going to the web site http://www.cultlink.com

The name of the video is "The Great Apostasy"

Shalom

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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
yahsway, when the news people in Florida (that took the photos) ask Benny Hinn for an explanation he refused to even comment, it would have been very easy to defuse the situation by simply explaining it was some kind of special blend tobacco or something but when his baby sitter/body guard died the same day from a cocaine over dose and him at the table with Bennie Hinn and Steve Brock ...sure don't look good

Yes, and I believe in the Easter Bunny. [pound] [pound]
"I would like to see that video you are referring to yahsway," she says as she leaves the room laughing
uncontrolably. [roll on floor]

Something is taken out of context with that quote by Billy Graham and Robert Schueller. I can vouch unequivably that he preaches a 'Ye must be born again' type of gospel. Probably there is something at the end missing.

Quotes by Billy Graham.
"Being a Christian is more than just an instantaneous conversion; it is like a daily process whereby you grow to be more and more like Christ."

"No man ever loved like Jesus. He taught the blind to see and the dumb to speak. He died on the cross to save us. He bore our sins. And now God says, "Because He did, I can forgive you."

"NO ONE CAN DO IT FOR YOU."

"The Christian life is not a constant high. I have my moments of deep discouragement. I have to go to God in prayer with tears in my eyes, and say, 'O God, forgive me,' or 'Help me"

"My one purpose in life is to help people find a personal relationship with God, which, I believe, comes through knowing Christ."

"I have one message: Jesus Christ came; He died on a cross; He rose again. He asks us to repent of our sins and receive Him by faith as Lord and Savior. And if we do, we have forgiveness of all our sins."

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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"


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becauseHElives
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Television Interview of Billy Graham by Robert Schuller, Hour Of Power, Part 1, an approximately 7 minute long Broadcast in Southern California on Saturday, May 31, 1997. The following is an exact transcript of an excerpt close to the end of the Broadcast.

SCHULLER: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?

GRAHAM: Well, Christianity and being a true believer--you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by GOD. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven.

SCHULLER: What, what I hear you saying that it's possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and souls and life, even if they've been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you're saying?

GRAHAM: Yes, it is, because I believe that I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived.

SCHULLER: I, I'm so thrilled to hear you say this. There's a wideness in God's mercy.

GRAHAM: There is. There definitely is.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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becauseHElives
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yahsway, when the news people in Florida (that took the photos) ask Benny Hinn for an explanation he refused to even comment, it would have been very easy to defuse the situation by simply explaining it was some kind of special blend tobacco or something but when his baby sitter/body guard died the same day from a cocaine over dose and him at the table with Bennie Hinn and Steve Brock ...sure don't look good

Scriptures say…1 Thessalonians 5:22
Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Good NewsforAll, there is abundant proof Billy Graham did say there are many ways to eternal life, more than once. I will find and post the clip where Billy Graham was on Robert Schuler’s program and said it with his own lips.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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yahsway
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Hey becauseHeLives, I saw the video where Benny Hinn is giving Steve Brock and others a pipe to smoke, looks like one of those pipes from India,

Anyways I was thinking, could they have just been smoking fruit? They do smoke dried fruit in India ya know. Now I know the one man at that table was Benny Hinns pilot and that he did die of cocaine overdose.

Anyways, sorry, got a little off subject.

It just blew me away to see these men sitting around that table passing around that pipe and smoking from it. But i cant jump to the conclusion that it may have been pot or some kind of dope as it may well have been dried fruit, but it still did not look good, know what I mean?

We has the body of Christ need to quit looking at these men as "powerful" men. They are not! They are simply men, "empowered" maybe by the Spirit of Yahweh, and then again, maybe not.

For many will say to Him in that day, look what we did, cast out demons, healings, ect.. and Yeshuas words? Depart from me you workers of iniquity (lawlessness) I never knew you. Sobering words indeed.

I pray for Ted Haggard and his family and for his restoration. I pray he also Hears those words of Messiah as was told to the adulteress woman. "Neither do I condemn thee, Go and Sin no more".

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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Benny Hinn (caught passing out dope at his house),
Steve Brock (caught accepting dope from Benny Hinn)

A ridiculous accusation. [Eek!]
quote:
Billy Graham, (teaching other ways to be saved, except through the Blood of Yeshua)
An even more ridiculous accusation. [Confused]

There are many stories in the Bible where powerful men stumbled, but God never gave up on them.

God made the strongest covenant ever to man with Abraham, and told him he was be a father of many nations. His wife Sarah was long past child-bearing years, so he had a child with Hagar. God didn't tell Abraham to have a son by Hagar, but He never went back on his solemn vow to Abraham, and even promised to bless Hagar's son Ishmael.

We all know the story of Samson. He fell but God was faithful and regained his strength back, to eradicate many Philistines, even though it cost him his own life.

Peter denied Jesus, but he went on to be a great evangelist.

Paul had a thorn in this flesh, and we don't know what that thorn was. For all we know, he may have lived just one step away from falling.

Ted Haggard's story is very sketchy and it is just beginning to unfold. I refuse to get caught up in speculation, All I know is that Mike Jones failed the polygraph test, Ted Haggard said he never took drugs, even though he was tempted to take meth. Also, he issued a statement of apology, read by Rev. Larry Stockstill, head of the oversight committee that removed him from the pulpit, which said "I am guilty of sexual immorality. I take responsiblity for the entire problem. I am a deceiver and a liar."

If someone on this Board came to us with struggles, would we starting casting stones and pin him to the ground. I don't think so- we would gather around that person with supportful prayer and supplication.

quote:
I pray 1) there is correct leadership in place to handle such things and 2) they be obedient to the Lord in their dealings with Mr. Haggard.

Proper punishment of a saint (excommunication included) produces brokenness toward eventual restoration.

Aaron

Amen!! Matthew 18:12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? Jesus was concerned about Jesus

quote:
from jo25- First I want to say "let him who is without sin, cast the first stone'
John 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee.

--------------------
The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"


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Aaron
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quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Excommunicate him.....

For how long?

2 Corinthians 2:3-9 "And I wrote this very thing to you, lest, when I came, I should have sorrow over those from whom I ought to have joy, having confidence in you all that my joy is the joy of you all. For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote to you, with many tears, not that you should be grieved, but that you might know the love which I have so abundantly for you.
But if anyone has caused grief, he has not grieved me, but all of you to some extent--not to be too severe. This punishment which was inflicted by the majority is sufficient for such a man, so that, on the contrary, you ought rather to forgive and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one be swallowed up with too much sorrow. Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love to him. For to this end I also wrote, that I might put you to the test, whether you are obedient in all things."


I pray 1) there is correct leadership in place to handle such things and 2) they be obedient to the Lord in their dealings with Mr. Haggard.

Proper punishment of a saint (excommunication included) produces brokenness toward eventual restoration.

Aaron

P.S. Amen, Dale. "But for the grace of God go I." This was the first thing my wife said to me when she heard of this.

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Eden
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I'm not saying confessing is easy when a man is in the position that Pastor Ted Haggard was, but do you think that brother Ted Haggard is "gay" or not? I think he is gay and has not yet been able to confess that part of what is happening with him. As the gay community might say, "he hasn't completly 'come out' yet."

I was interested to see a New Life church member say that, it is good for the truth to come out, for the truth will set us free."

Is it okay for Pastor Ted Haggard to "come out" or not? I was just wondering...I am not gay and I know what the Bible says about man lying with man.

Be blessed.

Eden

Be blessed.

Eden

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TEXASGRANDMA
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Jo
Welcome to the board.
The world takes pleasure in when a Christian falls, especially a Pastor of a large Church. When we suggest that he should step down from his Church, we are not trying to be hard on this man. Yes we all fall but there is different sins. A man commiting this kind of sin is in no condition to be leading a Church. He needs time away from leading so that he can repent and find healing for himself and for his family.
If I have an affiar, it will affect my family but the news could care less, but if I am on TV and run a big Church, then it is news. By the way, if I was a Sunday School teacher and I had an affair, I believe I would have to step down for a period of time, also.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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jo25
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Hi, I'm new. [wave3] this is my first post. First I want to say "let him who is without sin, cast the first stone'
I know I've certainly done my share of wrong doings.
But anohter problem I have is why it is AlL OVER the news. I can see why it matters to his wife, I can see why it matters to his church and even why it matters to the evangelical assoc.
But that's as far as it goes. I can't see why the news is making such a big deal out of it, except to make us Christians look bad.

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Jesus is God,
jo25

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WildB
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Excommunicate him.....

Res sacræ, ritus, communio, crypta, potestas,
prædia sacra, forum, civilia jura vetantur,

i.e. loss of the sacraments, public services and prayers of the Church, ecclesiastical burial, jurisdiction, benefices, canonical rights, and social intercourse.


1Cor.5
[1] It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
[2] And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
[3] For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
[4] In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
[6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?


Rom.1

[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

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That is all.....

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TEXASGRANDMA
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Praying for the soon return of Jesus.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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helpforhomeschoolers
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Dale there are times that you just bless me so,times when the spirit of the Lord is just upon you so strong. These posts are one of those times. I am so thankful to have you for a friend and a brother. God Bless you and your house.

I did watch one of the clips and this is just a tragedy. We all suffer when one in the church does these things. This is why Paul taught church discipline.

In those videos I saw a man terribly embarrassed as he should be trying very hard to look at peace. I also saw a man that is not being completely honest with the public. I pray that he is being completely honest with GOD. But surely he needs our prayer.

Yes, Dale... except for the grace of God alone there go any one of us, and if we dont know that, then we have a huge awakening coming.

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TEXASGRANDMA
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God bless you Dale! I am feeling depressed about the suitation. I hate to leave a place becuase of this issue. I know that the devil is working harder and harder to divide Christians. I think it took it personally because I my late Uncle was a Assembly of God preacher and my late sister a Preacher's wife. I know from them that there are preachers who love God and are leading their flock according to God's Word. I tried to explain that there are many small Church Pastors who love the Lord but I was let know that they could not accept any Pentecostal Preachers as being led by God. I think alot of people see mega Churches on tv but they forget about the Preachers who lead little flocks in small towns all around the world. They are not in it for the money and they have no fame.
They are in it for the love of God.
Thanks again, Dale for making me feel better.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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becauseHElives
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Betty [Kiss] We are all human; we are all subject to fall.

The person that is not broken hearted at any individual’s failure (sin) is not the Child of Yahweh.

This very issue is why I am so vehement about, Once Saved Always Saved doctrine.

We are admonished by scripture over and over to warn people that unrighteousness will not inherited the Kingdom of Yahweh.

Yeshua paid the price for sin, but not so we could continue in sin, but to free us from the power of sin, the force that when we did not know Yeshua, held us in bondage, to serve sin, sin was our master.

But after the New Birth, Yahweh’s Grace (Understanding the meaning of the words "grace" and "faith" is the key to New Testament theology. Many understand that grace is unmerited favor, but that is too vague for a proper grasp of this important truth. Grace comes from Yeshua and is simply the desire and the power to do Yahweh's Will)

Grace enters the soul and now where there was a choice but no power to over come, now Yahweh’s Grace to do Yahweh’s Will is present.

This is why the Apostle Paul walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

I know personally what it is to walk in victory of the Spirit; I also know first hand what it means to grossly let lust consume my thoughts and outward actions.

Romans 13:

12 Therefore don't let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

13 Neither present your members to sin as instruments of unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God, as alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

14 For sin will not have dominion over you. For you are not under law, but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under law, but under grace? May it never be!

16 Don't you know that to whom you present yourselves as servants to obedience, his servants you are whom you obey; whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?

17 But thanks be to God, that, whereas you were bondservants of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching whereunto you were delivered.

18 Being made free from sin, you became bondservants of righteousness.

Paul is talking to Christians here not the lost!

We need to pray for each other, encourage one another to do what is pleasing to Yahweh not try to convince any person walking contrary to the scriptures they are Kingdom bound.

I love you all, and I love the Body of Christ but most of all I love Him who died for the sins of the whole world, who I am a small part

Dale

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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TEXASGRANDMA
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I just want to say that I appreicate that we have been able to discuss Pastor Ted, without tearing down every Church. I have just left a Christian board for good because they decided that ever Pentecostal Church is bad because of one man.
God knows each Church and he will judge the bad.
Thanks again for being Christians that can support one another without trying to destroy one another.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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becauseHElives
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Yahweh, I pray for this man, I know but for Your “Grace”, that man could be me.

Was Ted Haggard ever a believer?

Is Ted Haggard a believer?

No man or woman can say positively, except Yahweh revel it to them, who is or who is not saved. All we can do is judge their fruit.

Jimmy Swaggart (sexual misconduct),
Jim Baker, (sexual misconduct)
Benny Hinn (caught passing out dope at his house),
Steve Brock (caught accepting dope from Benny Hinn)
Billy Graham, (teaching other ways to be saved, except through the Blood of Yeshua)
Ted Haggard, (buying illegal drugs, this is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, what he was going to do with them is in question)

I would say any or all these people could have been saved at some point and then backslid and that Yahweh would restore anyone or all of them if they would repent and return to their first love (Yeshua), but if they didn’t repent or don’t repent they will burn with other sinners.

Or

That none of these people were ever saved.

Both could be true statements the way I understand scripture.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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helpforhomeschoolers
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(She know sheepishly sinks out of her chair and under the desk, felling rather stupid! Red faced and embarrassed [Embarrassed] I went to the link scrolled right down and read the article and never even noticed that there was an interview to watch or that your post said (watch) Not (read)

[1zhelp] [zzzzzz]

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The interview I am talking about is on the link at the top where I started this thread. I did not see it on TV but watched it from that link on the Internet.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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I absolutely agree David, and I have not seen him in an interview. I don't have TV. I would not have know of any of this if you had not posted it. I am sorry to hear that there seems to be no contrition and I surely hope and pray that changes.
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Yes we can stumble and fall, but like King David we must repent and be of a broken heart. That is the different between King David and King Saul.

King David did repent (but still suffered greatly for his sin.)

King Saul tried to explain away his sin and did not repent.

If you watch the interview Ted seems to be smiling the entire time and acts like it is no big deal, when he should be broken hearted.

True repentence will product a contrite heart.

We are not to just think everyone is born-again because they say they are. The bible tells us we will know them by their fruit. This man lied and then the next day when he saw they proved it was his voice on the tape, he decided to confess. Oh well don't look to good to me as Satan is the father of lies. I pray that he repents and comes to know Jesus Christ. When you do, then you don't want to experiment with meth or anything else that a Pastor should know better doing. Leaders are held more accountable then just sheep.

It is not OK and he needs to know that. That is why God send Nathan to David. To let him know. Now Ted know's because he got caught, he did not just decide to confess, his hand was forced. So now Ted needs to either do as King David and repent and turn from the sin and live with the consequence of the sin, or try to explain it away like it was nothing like Saul and keep deceiving himself and others.

I do pray he does as King David and repents and turns back to God begging for forgiveness. I know that we could and do fall. But what happens afterward is most important or so it seemed in the stories of King David and King Saul. One really loved God the other only knew Him.

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quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
David,
I agree with you. I believe that God will forgive Ted, but I also believe he should not preach for at least two years. He needs major help, not only with the drugs but spiritual help from God.
I feel sorry for the guy but he should not be leading the sheep. A broken shepherd cannot lead the sheep. God can fix a broken sheperd but he needs time away from leading the sheep to heal and grow in God.
betty

I don't think he needs to ever Pastor a church again. He needs to repent first and then see where else God can use him. Or maybe he needs to be born-again and come to know Jesus and not just know about Him. You can know the bible from front to back by memory, but if you don't know the Jesus of the bible all you did was memorize a book and your still lost and looking for satifaction in this world.

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I am not sure that I believe that he should ever pastor again, but I believe that GOD would have us pray for his repentance and forgiveness and restoration.

I do not believe that we can say that he was not born again and thus this has happened. Any one of us has the ability to walk in the flesh and not the Spirit.

It should not happen; He shows that there are serious problems in his relationship with Christ, especially for someone that being a pastor should be very skillful in the word.

God and this man alone know whether he be born again or not. If he is born again, we will see this in the way he proceeds from here... for it is not that we cannot stumble and fall being born again, but that when we do, we have an advocate, and respond to his chastening and we are brought to repentance and we get up and return to God from where we have fallen and do not deny our sin and continue to wallow in it.

If this were not so... if a born again believer were not able to walk in the flesh, though he surely should not walk in the flesh, we would not need an advocate:

1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

IF the born again sons of GOD were not able to in err walk in the flesh and not the spirit, there would be nothing for God to chasten us for, and yet we are told if we ENDURE chastening, then we know that we were treated as sons.

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TG, I agree as well.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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David,
I agree with you. I believe that God will forgive Ted, but I also believe he should not preach for at least two years. He needs major help, not only with the drugs but spiritual help from God.
I feel sorry for the guy but he should not be leading the sheep. A broken shepherd cannot lead the sheep. God can fix a broken sheperd but he needs time away from leading the sheep to heal and grow in God.
betty

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Biblical Accountability

The Bible clearly states that Christian leaders should be accountable both to the Word of God and also to God's people, whom the leader serves. Among the requirements Paul describes for a Christian leader are that he be "blameless," and "of good behavior" (1 Tim. 3:2). A Christian leader must "have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil" (1 Tim. 3:7). This does not mean that the Christian leader is simply good at covering up his sin. Christian leaders must display integrity and honesty -- they must prove themselves worthy of Christians' trust.

One would think that our outspoken faithfulness to truth telling would extend to telling the truth about sin within the Church. And yet at this point many Christians shrink from truth telling, instead hiding behind empty platitudes such as "don't judge;" "forgive and forget;" "don't shoot your own wounded;" "look at all the people who came to the Lord through this ministry;" etc. Sadly, we have unbiblically acted as though telling the truth contradicts biblical concern for a sinning Christian leader.

Christians who cry out, "It's wrong to judge," are ignoring the context of the passage (Matt. 7:1-2), which does not forbid judging, but instead insists on judgment according to God's word. In addition, a judgmental criticism of judgement is self-refuting. If it is wrong for a Christian to publicly criticize a Christian leader whose testimony is false or who is immoral, then isn't the critic also wrong for publicly criticizing the Christian? Paul points out this contradiction among some Jews, saying, "You who say, 'Do not commit adultery,' do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?" (Rom. 2:22). One who speaks English to utter the sentence "I can't utter a word in English" has refuted himself. Aren't those who accuse Christian investigative journalism of being the "Christian Gestapo" themselves acting Gestopo-ish?

Assuming that integrity and accountability exclude compassion unfairly brands truth telling as "shooting" and ignores that "the wounded" have been wounded by their own sin.

Christians who excuse false testimonies and immorality by pointing to the "fruits" of a ministry deny Paul's forceful argument in Romans 3:8 that to do evil that good may come is slanderous and contrary to biblical ethics.

To equate forgiveness with absolution from personal responsibility is to cheapen biblical forgiveness and to deny biblical justice.


By Bob and Gretchen Passantino
http://answers.org/issues/exposing_sin.html

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I believe we should pray that the Pastors that are in leadership actually come to know Jesus Christ and are not just a product of seminaries that teach the modern day feel good gospel and people teaching the come down the isle, say a prayer easy believism, push a button and be saved gosple. If someone suggests that if you say a prayer you will be saved, then they will answer to God for that. There is no push button thing you can do for salvation. The bible says we MUST be born-again. That is a process and if you are born-again your live will change and you will put Jesus Christ first in your life. Not just know about Him or think you purchased a ticket to heaven and you have it somewhere in a drawer.

If you are born-again, that means you have come to know Jesus Christ and not just about Him. The high pay checks are producing pastors that have never been born-again and are just in it for the $$$$. If you know and love Jesus Christ you don't get a massage and stay in a conversation long enough to decide to buy meth.

Wake up, you don't do things like this if you are born again.

Yes he could repent and come to know Jesus now, but you can't tell me the man knows and loves Jesus and can lie to the Church about it with a smile on his face and the next day tell you he did buy the meth.

Yes we need to pray for Him to come to know Jesus and be born-again.

Stop thinking you are saved when you live like the world, YOU ARE NOT.

Jesus said you MUST be born-again. That means you have changed and you no longer live for self. A Pastor knows he is a target.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)

So who are these peope. They are people that know about Jesus but never came to know Him.

Remember Satan is the father of lies, not Jesus. Deception is what Satan is all about. People in leadership roles in the Church will be held more accountable. They KNOW BETTER, that is IF thay actually know Jesus. If not they are just good actors or better know in the christian lingo as a hypocrite.

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Hi, TEXASGRANDMA. I agree with you that we should pray more for our prominent leaders. They are sinners and are just as vulnerable as we are, and we should hold them up in prayer, as Jesus did for Peter:
Luke 22
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith fail not: and when you are converted, strengthen your brethren.
1 Timothy 6:9
But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
Luke 22:40
And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.
Luke 22:46
And said unto them, Why do you sleep? Rise and pray, lest you enter into temptation.

1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that you are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that you may be able to bear it.

James 1:14
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

But that does not mean that we will always escape. He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword. And a soft word turns away wrath.

Every sinner, every saved sinner pastor, every saved sinner Christian is given a way of escape. We are also each responsible for our own choosings, and we will probably not escape ALL of them, given our sinful nature.

But I am confident that Ted Haggard still believes that Jesus was and is the Son of God who died for ALL of Haggard's sins (including these).

So I still thank God that Haggard is SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS as long as he CONTINUES TO BELIEVE in JESUS. At least I can still praise God for Haggard's salvation, which is a precious thing when "few there be who will find it."

Be blessed.

Eden

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It breaks my heart. Preachers are under attack today more than ever. When the devil breaks a Pastor the whole Church is affected and with bigger Churches, even the world is affected. We need to pray for our Pastors that God will give them strength to resist temptations.
betty

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This is horribly sad. Let us be in prayer for his repentance and return to GOD, and for GOD's mercy and grace to be with him.
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COLORADO SPRINGS - Pastor Ted Haggard came out of his house Friday morning and admitted to 9NEWS he bought meth from a gay escort in Denver.

Click here to watch interview

This is very sad, it does not seem that now adays men take being a Pastor very serious.

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