|
Author
|
Topic: We can make a difference
|
yeshuaslavejeff
Advanced Member
Member # 4506
|
posted
remember that the righteous will become more righteous, and the wicked more wicked.
how many did Yeshua state?
and with the governments of the world being summed
up in iniquity, all apparently a part of the one
world anti-Yeshua anti-jewish anti-Truth;
maybe re-think what to expect in these days.
again remember the us president, severally, have
aimed at a one world order, under satanic control.
Yeshua said only a few find life and stay on the
path of life-narrow, painful, agonizing .
'Whosoever will' never meant all, let alone many.
'Popular' never meant true, just the opposite is
shown in Scripture.
--------------------
1Peter4:1,2 Yeshua suffered physical suffering:disciples have same mind/ willingness to share shame/physical suffering with Yeshua/His people.
Biblio:"willtherealhereticsplease standup?"byBercot(churchTruth)
Posts: 75 | From: tulsa | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
Gal.5
[13] For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
[14] For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Children today are being raise in phisical/mental and spiritual war zones.
Matt.24
[12] And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
You wont get any argument from me on the decline of our society since this time; but the problem is a home problem. What we see in our schools is indicative of what is missing at home.
I just dont believe that GOD ever gave us liberty to sit on our laurels at home and leave it up to the schools to teach our children to pray or to walk in the ways of the Almighty.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
By Bob and Rose Weiner
2/92
Does prayer really matter? Can it actually change things? Is there really a God in heaven Who cares about the plight of man?
Is there really a God so personal that He takes note of a sparrow's fall and Who is moved when a man or woman calls to Him for aid with a sincere heart? Is there a God Who will actually intervene in the affairs of mankind, or Who will alter the course of nations in response to prayer, repentance, and sincere acknowledgment of man's dependence on Him?
The United States of America is a nation with a history that cries out in testimony of its belief in God and the power of prayer. From the pen of Thomas Jefferson sprang these immortal words:
"We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions do ... declare that these United Colonies are ... free and independent ... And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."
The 56 representatives of the 13 original colonies who signed the Declaration of Independence undoubtedly believed in the God of heaven, Who determines the destinies of nations. Consequently, they made their appeal to His divine judgment in determining the rightness of their cause. In this foundational document, our forefathers left a testimony of their belief in prayer and dependence on God's protection and care.
That the God to Whom they were appealing was the God of the Bible is unmistakable, for the legitimacy of this petition was taken directly from the book of Judges. The children of ancient Israel made this appeal when threatened by their enemies, the Ammonites. With no earthly judge to settle the dispute, the leader of Israel called on God to act as Judge, and then led his army out courageously to battle.1
George Washington was firmly convinced of the power of prayer and of the necessity to appeal to Almighty God for help and blessing. In 1776, he wrote: "May the Being who is powerful to save, and in whose hands is the fate of nations, look down with an eye of tender piety and compassion upon the whole of the United Colonies; may He continue to smile upon their counsels and arms, and crown them with success whilst employed in the cause of virtue and mankind. May this distressed colony and its capital and every part of this wide extended continent, through His divine favor, be restored to more than their former luster and once happy state, and have peace, liberty, and safety secured upon a solid, permanent, and lasting foundation."2
When the Constitutional Convention was filled with division, strife and seemed to be deadlocked, it was Benjamin Franklin who exhorted the assembly to pray stating, "All of us who were engaged in the struggle (of the Revolution) must have observed frequently instances of a superintending Providence in our favor ... And have we now forgotten this powerful Friend? Or do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?
"I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: 'that God governs in the affair of man.' And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?
"We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this, I also believe that without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in the political building no better than the builders of Babel ... I therefore beg leave to move that, henceforth, prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven and its blessing on our deliberation be held in this assembly every morning before we proceed to business."
Franklin's advice changed the course of the convention. The delegates adjourned for three days to pray, attend church, and listen to preachers challenge and inspire them. Then they reassembled and drew up what is now the oldest and most successful Constitution ever written by men. "Legal minds of two centuries have continued to marvel at it as being almost beyond the scope and dimension of human wisdom."3
Schools and seminaries in early America were started by Christians as outreaches of churches. Education was seen by the founders as much more than a process for teaching basic skills. It was the founders' distinct purpose to instill in youth the lessons of history, the ideas of liberty, and the principles of Christianity that would afford the people the ability to govern themselves. The Bible was used as the primary instrument to teach not only reading, but character and morals as well. The school day always began with prayer and an acknowledgment of their dependence on Almighty God.
The Supreme Court's Infamous 1962 Decision
This practice continued until 1962, when, by an official act of the Supreme Court, it was ruled unconstitutional. The American school child was forbidden to pray. In one day the Supreme Court divorced American education from our national roots. The forbidden prayer which was outlawed by the Court was a simple one: "Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers and our Country."
The Court summarized: "State officials may not compose an official state prayer and require that it be recited in the public schools of the State at the beginning of each school day - even if the prayer is denominationally neutral and pupils who do not wish to do so may remain silent or be excused from the room while the prayer is being recited."
Justice Stewart wrote the dissenting opinion refering to our nation's rich Christian heritage stating:
"At the opening of each day's Session of this court, we stand while one of our officials invokes the protection of God. Since the days of John Marshall our Crier has said, 'God save the United States and this Honorable Court.' Both the Senate and the House of Representatives open their daily sessions with prayer. Each of our Presidents, from George Washington to John F. Kennedy, has upon assuming his Office asked the protection and help of God.
"The Court today says that the state and federal governments are without constitutional power to prescribe any particular form of words to be recited by any group of the American people on any subject touching religion. One of the stanzas of "The Star Spangled Banner," made our National Anthem by an Act of Congress in 1931, contains these verses:
Blessed with victory and peace,
may the heav'n rescued land -
Praise the pow'r that hath made and
preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto, "In God is our Trust"
"In 1954 Congress added these words to the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag,'one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' In 1952, Congress enacted legislation calling upon the President each year to proclaim a National Day of Prayer. Since 1865, the words IN GOD WE TRUST have been impressed on our coins.
"Countless similar examples could be listed but there is no need to belabor the obvious. It was all summed up by this Court just ten years ago in a single sentence: 'We are a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being.'
"I do not believe that this Court, or the Congress, or the President, has by the actions and practices I have mentioned established an official religion' in violation of the Constitution. And I do not believe that the State of New York has done so in this case. What each has done has been to recognize and to follow the deeply entrenched and highly cherished spiritual traditions of our Nation - traditions which come down to us from those who almost two hundred years ago avowed their 'firm Reliance on the Protection of divine Providence' when they proclaimed the freedom and independence of this brave new world. I dissent."
The Effect of Banning School Prayer
The public prayers of over 39 million school children and over two million teachers were disallowed in the the public arena by the 1962 decision. A public acknowledgement of our need for God through prayer became a forbidden practice. Thirty prayerless years of disavowing our need for God have come and gone. Has it really mattered?
Just what has happened during those prayerless years? SAT scores plunged downward until the Secretary of Education drew up a report in 1983 entitled, "A Nation at Risk" which gave a full report of our scholastic decline. Almost 10 years later the While House issued a national report card and gave public education an "F" in math and science. One report cited that only 12% of high school graduates can read and write effectively.
We were once the most literate nation in the world; now we have the highest illiteracy rate among industrialized nations. Premarital sex, teenage pregnancies, and venereal disease have skyrocketed since 1962.
The number of divorces have tripled every year, until by 1987 the US. divorce rate topped the world's divorce charts. In 1970, unmarried couples living together were one in 85. By 1983 they were one in 25 unmarried couples that were living together. Adultery in women increased from 6 - 26 percent prior to 1963 to 45 - 55 percent in 1987. An article written this fall by Jim Abrams of the Associated press was entitled, "Once More the School Year has Begun with Bullets rather than Bells Ringing through too Many Classrooms."
David Barton, author of To Pray or Not to Pray reveals some disturbing statics : "In the years prior to the banning of God from schools, most facets of the American educational system had remained stable at relatively high, productive levels. Since then, many things in the school system have undergone radical changes. School violence and lack of discipline have become some of the more troublesome problems facing American education."4
These problems have now spread throughout our nation. Violent crime has increased dramatically since the volume of prayer beseeching God's blessing on our nation was curtailed in 1962. In 1987 National Crime Survey of the public schools reports 3 million faculty, staff and visitors aged 12 or more were victims of a criminal act with 75,900 cases of aggravated assault. The Center to Prevent Handgun Violence reports between 1986 to 1990, 71 students and employes were shot to death, 201 were severely wounded, 242 were taken hostage in our public schools. We now lead the world in violent crime, divorce, and illegal drug use. We have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in the Western world.5
Before the highest court in the land ruled that the schools no longer need to acknowledge God or ask for His protection or help the polls taken of top offenses were as follows:
1.Talking
2. Chewing gum
3. Making noise
4. Running in the halls
5. Getting out of turn in line
6. Wearing improper clothing
7. Not putting paper in wastebaskets
Barton observes, "In 1962, a distinct and well-defined new direction was established. This new course was not assumed gradually; it did not require years for it to develop. This break happened at a visible point on the charts ... the point of visible departure from previously stable conditions occurs on or around 1962 with virtually every graph in this book."
The Tragedy of Turning Away from God
Noah Webster, father of the American dictionary and early American educator, stated: "The moral principles and precepts contained in the Scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws. All the miseries and evils which men suffer from - vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery, and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible."6
Evidently the Russians have learned the lesson the hard way. The superintendent of Moscow city schools recently visited a prominent Christian educator to inquire about their curriculum. Moscow schools have totally rejected the official atheistic, socialist curriculum of the Communists and have said unless the curriculum is based on the Ten Commandments, they aren't interested.
Thomas Jefferson wrote: "A people can become so demoralized and depraved as to be incapable of exercising a wholesome control ... Their minds are to be informed by education what is right and what is wrong, to be encouraged in habits of virtue and deterred from those of vice by the dread of punishments, proportioned, indeed but irremissable; in all cases, to follow Truth as the only safe guide, and to eschew error, which bewilders us in one false consequence after another in endless succession. These are the inculcations necessary to render the people a sure basis for the structure of order and good government."7
One hundred years ago, in 1892 the Supreme Court made an exhaustive study of the connection between Christianity and the government of the United States. Having reviewed hundreds of volumes of historical documents, the Court concluded, "these references ... add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a religious people ... a Christian nation." In 1931, Supreme Court Justice George Sutherland reviewed the 1892 decision and reiterated that Americans are a "Christian people." In 1952, Justice William O. Douglas affirmed that "We are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a Supreme Being."8
When a public stand was taken by the highest court in our land to disregard God and no longer acknowledge our need for Him, we became guilty of "forgetting our Powerful Friend" and "imagining we no longer need His assistance." Thus we have invited the consequences of the words spoken by the prophet Samuel: "Whoever honors Me, I will honor. And whoever disregards me, I will disregard" (1 Sam. 2:30). Through Hosea the prophet God said, "Since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children." (Hosea 4:6)
God states emphatically in His Word, "I will protect him for he acknowledges My name. He will call upon Me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honor him, with long life will I satisfy him and show him My salvation ... Since they have rejected the Word of the Lord, what kind of wisdom do they have? ... Am I the One they are provoking? Are they not rather harming themselves to their own shame?" (Portions of Psalm 91 and Jeremiah 7 and 8)
Reflecting on the effect of the prayerless years, Barton states, "The first and most obvious effect of the Supreme Court ruling was the immediate decrease in the volume of prayers being offered for the nation and its leaders and people ... despite the quantity of daily prayers being offered through all other nonschool avenues, the termination of millions of individual public school prayers had a significant impact ... The Bible teaches that not only does God perceptibly respond to prayer, but His response is directly proportional to the amount of prayer offered. Massive prayer brings massive results. No prayer brings no results. Little prayer brings little results. When the volume of prayer drops, so do the related results..."9
While 97 percent of our nation, according to polls, claimed a belief in God in 1962, how was it that the nation's leaders were so out of step with mainstream America?
The Divorce of God and Government
The defection from government and civil life came from within the Church itself. In the mid 1900s the Christian community began to adopt a philosophy of isolationism. Christians began to isolate themselves from political affairs, confirming themselves to the church and separating themselves from politics. The overriding philosophy was expressed in statements like "Why polish brass on a sinking ship?" - "Tend only to the souls of men." - "This world is not our home." - "God has only one nation that He cares about and that is the church." - "Politics is dirty. It is best to stay out of it."
As a result, Christians began to forsake the dominion mandate and, for the most part, gave up their stewardship of tending to the nation's public affairs. The divorce of God and government happened first in the church and was merely reflected later in the national policy. Others who did not hold to the godly beliefs that had shaped and guided our nation for almost two centuries, began to take the helm of the ship of state and guide us into uncharted and forbidden waters. In the wake of the Christian's abdication, others began to introduce ideas and laws contrary to our values, and Christians took little or no action to stop this.
According to a July 1988 Gallup poll, 84 percent of this nation firmly believes in Jesus Christ. Another poll indicates that 94 percent of the nation believes in God. That leaves 16 percent who do not believe in Jesus and only 6 percent that deny the existence of God.
While Christians continually lose ground by default, studies show that 92 percent of media leaders do not consider themselves conservative, and 66 percent of the media feel they must educate the public with their personal viewpoint.
We are like a herd of zebras being held at bay on some African savannah by a ferocious lion. The lion, resembling a tyrant spirit, pretends to be bigger than he is. With ferocious sounds and threatening looks, he controls the feeding herd.
Suddenly he attacks. A zebra falls and becomes lunch for the lion and his friends. While the wild beasts are feeding on the fallen zebra's carcass, the rest of the herd continue to graze with a false sense of security. They scarcely look up as one of their own are sacrificed to the appetite of the hungry lion. They do not realize that after the fallen zebra has been digested, the belly of the hungry lion will demand more.
A stampede of the herd could easily overwhelm the lion. Yet, unmotivated to leave, fearful, and lacking in leadership, the zebras willingly watch the lion feed on their own, rather than give up the peace and false sense of security they feel.
What Must We Do to Be Saved?
We must realize that the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men and women to stand idly by and do nothing. We must cry out to God to awaken us from slumber. We must shake ourselves from the dust. Turning from God and the importance of prayer has brought this deluge of wickedness upon us. But we can be certain that before the offering of prayer broke down on a national level, God's people had long since departed from the practice of it.
What must we do to be saved from this dilemma? Nothing short of a heaven sent awakening and a national revival and repentance toward God will reverse this downward course.
The path that will lead to this revival and spiritual awakening is plainly marked out in scripture: "If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, forgive their sin and heal their land" (2 Chron. 7:14).
Earnest heartfelt prayer and turning away from sin and toward God in repentance is the Bible's prescription for national healing and deliverance. James Burns writes in Revival, their Laws and Leaders written in 1909:
"To the church, a revival means humiliation, a bitter knowledge of unworthiness and an open humiliating confession of sin on the part of her ministers and people. It is not the easy and glorious thing many think it to be, who imagine it to fill the pews and reinstate the church in power and authority. It comes to scorch before it heals; it comes to condemn ministers and people for their unfaithful witness, for their selfish living, for their neglect of the cross, and to call them to daily renunciation ... to a deep and daily consecration. That is why a revival has ever been unpopular with large numbers within the church. Because it says nothing to them of power such as they have learned to love, or of ease, or of success; it accuses them of sin; it tells them they are dead, it calls them to to awake to renounce the world and to follow Christ."10
Why should we pray for and embrace revival and cry out for a national awakening? Because we can no longer bear it that God should be so dishonored by the church by its low level of Christian living - because we can no longer bear the wickedness and perversion of a sin sick world nor bear to see his Holy name blasphemed.
Frank Bartleman, whose intercessory prayer ministry preceded the great Pentecostal outpouring and Azusa Street Revival on 1906 writes: "The depth of revival will be determined exactly by the depth of the spirit of repentance. And this will hold true for all people at all times. In fact, this is the 'key' to every true revival born of God."11
The central lesson of every revival was the fact that the Spirit of God moved to convert the unsaved in magnitude and power as soon as the Christians within a specific church were walking in obedience to God. Evan Roberts, leader of the great Welsh revival wrote: "My mission is first to the churches. When the churches are aroused to their duty, men of the world will be swept into the kingdom. A whole church on its knees is irresistible ... When the bonds of Paul and Silas in Phillipi's prison snapped, the bonds of all the prisoners snapped also. So when the church is freed from the bonds of apathy and worldliness, those who are being drawn by Satan to eternal death will be released also."12
Perhaps your heart is crying out, "Lord, I want revival in my life and nation. What must I do?"
Repent of and forsake all known sin. Jesus came to save His people from their sins. Make restitution where necessary. Find a friend of "like mind" and pray together daily for revival. Let the Spirit of God direct your prayers and He will lead you into all truth. Commit yourself to a life of absolute obedience to the Spirit of God. God has promised, if we will do this, He will hear from heaven, forgive our sin, and heal our land.
1 John Locke, "Of the State of War" quoted in Verna Hall and Rosalie Slater's The Christian History of the Constitution (San Francisco, CA: Foundation for American Christian Education, 1978) pp.61-62. 2 Ibid. pp.77-78.
3 David Barton, America: To Pray or Not to Pray? (Aledo, TX: Specialty Research Associates, Inc., P.O. Box 397, 1988) pp.ix,xi.
4 Barton, p.75. 5 Ibid, p.155. 6 Ibid, p.viii.
7 W. Cleon Skousen, The Making of America, (Washington, DC: The National Center for Constitutional Studies, 1985) p.234.
8 Ibid., p.1. 9 Ibid., pp.162-163.
10 Winkie Pratney, Revival (Whitaker House, Springdale, Penn. 1983) p.22.
11 Frank Bartleman, Another Wave of Revival (Springdale, PA: Whitaker House, 1982) pp.10,19.
12 Spirit of Revival (Buchanan, MI: Life Action Ministries, 1988), Vol. 18, No.1) p.26.
~
http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/weiner/X0032_922_America_Stopped_.html
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
To Dr. Benjamin Rush
Monticello, Sep. 23, 1800
I promised you a letter on Christianity, which I have not forgotten. On the contrary, it is because I have reflected on it, that I find much more time necessary for it than I can at present dispose of. I have a view of the subject which ought to displease neither the rational Christian nor Deists, and would reconcile many to a character they have too hastily rejected. do not know that it would reconcile the genus irritabile vatum who are all in arms against me. Their hostility is on too interesting ground to be softened. The delusion into which the X. Y. Z. plot shewed it possible to push the people; the successful experiment made under the prevalence of that delusion on the clause of the constitution, which, while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the freedom of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity thro' the U. S.; and as every sect believes its own form the true one, every one perhaps hoped for his own, but especially the Episcopalians & Congregationalists.
The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes, & they believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: & enough too in their opinion, & this is the cause of their printing lying pamphlets against me, forging conversations for me with Mazzei, Bishop Madison, &c., which are absolute falsehoods without a circumstance of truth to rest on; falsehoods, too, of which I acquit Mazzei & Bishop Madison, for they are men of truth.
But enough of this: it is more than I have before committed to paper on the subject of all the lies that has been preached and printed against me. I have not seen the work of Sonnoni which you mention, but I have seen another work on Africa, (Parke's,) which I fear will throw cold water on the hopes of the friends of freedom. You will hear an account of an attempt at insurrection in this state. I am looking with anxiety to see what will be it's effect on our state. We are truly to be pitied. I fear we have little chance to see you at the Federal city or in Virginia, and as little at Philadelphia. It would be a great treat to receive you here. But nothing but sickness could effect that; so I do not wish it. For I wish you health and happiness, and think of you with affection. Adieu.
Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
Engel v. Vitale (1962)
82 Supreme Court Reporter, p. 1261-1277
370 U.S. 421
STEVEN I. ENGEL ET AL., PETITIONERS, V. WILLIAM J. VITALE, JR., ET AL.
Argued April 3, 1962.
Decided June 25,1962.
Mr. Justice Black delivered the opinion of the Court.
The respondent Board of Education of Union Free School District No. 9, New Hyde Park, New York, acting in its official capacity under state law, directed the School District's principal to cause the following prayer to be said aloud by each class in the presence of a teacher at the beginning of each school day:
''Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers and our Country.''
This daily procedure was adopted on the recommendation of the State Board of Regents, a governmental agency created by the State Constitution to which the New York Legislature has granted broad supervisory, executive, and legislative powers over the State's public school system. These state officials composed the prayer which they recommended and published as a part of their ''Statement on Moral and Spiritual Training in the Schools,'' saying: ''We believe that this Statement will be subscribed to by all men and women of good will, and we call upon all of them to aid in giving life to our program.''
[1] Shortly after the practice of reciting the Regent's prayer was adopted by the School District, the parents of ten pupils brought this action in a New York State Court insisting that use of this official prayer in the public schools was contrary to the beliefs, religions, or religious practices of both themselves and their children. Among other things, these parents challenged the constitutionality of both the state law authorizing the School District to direct the use of prayer in public schools and the School District's regulation ordering the recitation of this particular prayer on the ground that these actions of official governmental agencies violate that part of the First Amendment of the Federal Constitution which commands that ''Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion''—a command which was ''made applicable to the State of New York by the Fourteenth Amendment of the said Constitution.'' The New York Court of Appeals, over the dissents of Judges Dye and Fuld, sustained an order of the lower state courts which had upheld the power of New York to use the Regent's prayer as a part of the daily procedures of its public schools so long as the schools did not compel any pupil to join in the prayer over his or his parents' objection. We granted certiorari to review this important decision involving rights protected by the First and Fourteenth Amendments.
[2] We think by using its public school system to encourage recitation of the Regents' prayer, the State of New York has adopted a practice wholly inconsistent with the Establishment Clause. There can, of course, be no doubt that New York's program of daily classroom invocation of God's blessings as prescribed in the Regents' prayer is a religious activity. It is a solemn avowal of divine faith and supplication for the blessings of the Almighty. The nature of such prayer has always been religious, none of the respondents has denied this and the trial court expressly so found:
''The religious nature of prayer was recognized by Jefferson and has been concurred in by theological writers, the United States Supreme Court and state courts and administrative officials, including New York's Commissioner of Education. A committee of the New York Legislature has agreed.
''The Board of Regents as amicus curiae, the respondents and intervenors all concede the religious nature of prayer, but seek to distinguish this prayer because it is based on our spiritual heritage. * * *''
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
|
posted
Amen Linda. Once again you bring the truth home.
I don't have the cute chearleader like Aaron, but I'll give you this guy. ![[dance]](graemlins/dance1.gif)
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Aaron
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Newsflash: The Supreme Court did not take GOd out of schools. The Supreme Court took public prayer out of schools. Can kids still pray in school; you bet and they do. Is God still present in the schools, yes in every born again believer in the school. Why did things seem to go down hill when we took public prayer out of schools? Because too many parents were depending on the schools to teach their kids to pray. And when the schools stopped prompting it the kids stopped praying.
My kids have religious programs and sing religious songs in their school. At graduation in our school district you will hear a prayer in the name of Jesus, out loud and public and if you dont like it you will have to talk to the 95% of the people saying amen to it.
Jesus did not send us to legislate religion. Jesus sent us to preach the Gospel and when the majority of the people in a community are Christian, you cant help but have Christian activity in the community. When the music teacher is a pastor's wife and the principle's brother is a deacon and the math teacher's wife is the secretary over at the EV Free and the vollyball coach is member at the Baptist church and the kids all go to youth over at the Lutheran youth house and the pastors are all present at the games and the plays and their kids are in the musical and ole Randy on the school board is the tresurer at Mac's church... you could not keep God out of the school system or the school building if you tried.
The raising of Children in the knowledge and ways of God is the duty of the HOME and not the school and when the home takes care of what the home is supposed to take care of the children in the schools are not there without God or without the ability to pray.
My question was not how do you think that jesus feels about the ACLU; my comment was do you think that heaven is rejoicing over your victory in getting Target and Sears to use the word Christmas in their ads?
Aaron
IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
Newsflash: The Supreme Court did not take GOd out of schools. The Supreme Court took public prayer out of schools. Can kids still pray in school; you bet and they do. Is God still present in the schools, yes in every born again believer in the school. Why did things seem to go down hill when we took public prayer out of schools? Because too many parents were depending on the schools to teach their kids to pray. And when the schools stopped prompting it the kids stopped praying.
My kids have religious programs and sing religious songs in their school. At graduation in our school district you will hear a prayer in the name of Jesus, out loud and public and if you dont like it you will have to talk to the 95% of the people saying amen to it.
Jesus did not send us to legislate religion. Jesus sent us to preach the Gospel and when the majority of the people in a community are Christian, you cant help but have Christian activity in the community. When the music teacher is a pastor's wife and the principle's brother is a deacon and the math teacher's wife is the secretary over at the EV Free and the vollyball coach is member at the Baptist church and the kids all go to youth over at the Lutheran youth house and the pastors are all present at the games and the plays and their kids are in the musical and ole Randy on the school board is the tresurer at Mac's church... you could not keep God out of the school system or the school building if you tried.
The raising of Children in the knowledge and ways of God is the duty of the HOME and not the school and when the home takes care of what the home is supposed to take care of the children in the schools are not there without God or without the ability to pray.
My question was not how do you think that jesus feels about the ACLU; my comment was do you think that heaven is rejoicing over your victory in getting Target and Sears to use the word Christmas in their ads?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
so now you are smarter than Billy Graham.
You make me sick to my stomach. That is the truth.
betty
And please tell the baseball fans how you came up with that statement?
Your the one that interjected your non-Biblical " the Spirit of Christmas". Thats of coarse befor you posted something about Billy.
Exactly were does Billy talk about "the Spirit of Christmas"? I read what you posted and I just couldnt find it.
~
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
|
posted
so now you are smarter than Billy Graham.
You make me sick to my stomach. That is the truth.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
"Spirit of Christmas"
Not Biblical.
Please stop your sillyness.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
|
posted
The point is that they are allowed to mention Jesus. He is not compromised. Don't you even care that this is the only way some children hear of Jesus?
You Can Know the Christ of Christmas
Once again the world celebrates Christmas. People fervently pray that the Spirit of Christmas will pervade the entire world. In many parts of the world Christmas carolers will stand outside their neighbors' doors and sing "Silent Night! Holy Night!" Everyone is busily preparing for the holiday season.
A Message by Billy Graham
Yet, in the midst of this preparation, millions of people miss the real meaning of Christmas.
In the midst of the Christmas rush, Christ is oftentimes left out as we forget that it is His birthday we are celebrating. The precise meaning of that first Christmas is clear: God came to earth in human form. The impact of His birth was so great that calendars were torn up, prejudices were laid aside and people began to walk in newness of life.
Nearly 2,000 years ago the angel revealed to the wondering and trembling shepherds the glorious news that in the city of David "a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord" (Luke 2:11, NIV). The angel had already announced to Joseph the character of Christ's Saviorhood: "You are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins" (Matthew 1:21, NIV).
Israel had looked for One who would deliver them from the bondage of Rome and restore the nation to an even greater glory and prosperity than was enjoyed in the days of King David. They never dreamed that this little Babe in Bethlehem's manger was the anointed One, the King of kings and the Lord of lords. Only a few devout people living in close communion with God, such as the aged Simeon, saw the spiritual significance of Christ's birth. Looking into the face of the holy Babe, Simeon saw One who had come to be "a light for revelation to the Gentiles and for glory to [God's] people Israel" (Luke 2:32, NIV).
For long centuries the children of God had walked in the light of the law and the prophets, but all the while they had looked up to heaven and longed to have God step down. In Bethlehem 2,000 years ago, that is just what God did. He became bone of our bone and flesh of our flesh and "made his dwelling among us" (John 1:14, NIV). The Christmas message is this: "God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ" (2 Corinthians 5:19, NIV).
But because people were blind to their sins, they saw no beauty in Christ that they should desire Him. They crucified the Christ who yearned to save them from their sins and from the tragic consequences that inevitably followed their rejection of God's anointed One.
The world's primary need today is the Savior, salvation from sin. Failure to recognize this fact and receive God's remedy for sin is the reason why mankind has failed to prevent recurring wars and revolutions in the world. Because within the hearts of people is lust for position, power and possessions, the best schemes and endeavors of people will come to naught.
Jesus Christ said, "Out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander" (Matthew 15:19, NIV). Until these things are rooted out, the world in a moral and a spiritual sense will go backward rather than forward.
Many have preached about the Sermon on the Mount as though that in itself is a sufficient dynamic to bring in a new world order of peace and goodwill among men. All the religions of the world say, "Do good; do good," but they do not give us the power to do good. One of the failures of many church leaders is their refusal to believe that our deepest problem is sin. We have joined hands with the idealists of the world in trying to bring about social reform without first dealing with the root of the problem, which is sin.
Many people have failed to see that the human will is sin-bound, egotistic and in rebellion against the will of God. We think that in some particular "ism" we hold the secret to universal peace and prosperity. All religions and ideologies outside God's revelation in the Bible have this in common: They are disguised forms of self-redemption and Christ rejection.
Without God we cannot put the world right, because we cannot put ourselves right. It is beyond us to put away the sin in our own hearts. We cannot save ourselves, let alone the whole world. Sin permeates all that we think, feel and do; like a shadow, sin pursues us wherever we go. It is part and parcel of our being; we cannot eradicate it.
The evils that curse the world are the consequences of hearts deceived by the devil and separated from God. Thousands of human schemes for social and political improvement will ultimately fail because they do not deal with a person's basic disease. They change the circumstances but leave the person untouched. They alter the surroundings but have no power to transform the character. If humanity is to be saved, if the world is to be transformed, then salvation must come from a source outside ourselves.
Christmas emphasizes the glorious truth that salvation is provided apart from us, that into this sin-cursed world came One whose supreme mission is to save sinners.
We cannot save ourselves because we cannot deliver ourselves from the guilt, the power and the consequences of sin. Those in rebellion against God have no terms of peace to offer that are acceptable to God. Only God Himself can make peace, and this He has done through the atoning sacrifice of His Son, Jesus Christ. Through the merits of Christ's life and death we are offered full and free forgiveness.
Christmas tells us what it cost God to save the world: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son" (John 3:16, NIV). Christ is God's great Christmas Gift to the world: "Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift!" (2 Corinthians 9:15, NIV). Christ does for us what no other has been able to do: He removes our guilt and reconciles us to God. He raises us from the death of sin to the life of righteousness. He reconciles us to life and to our fellow humans. He implants within us new hopes, new aims, new enthusiasms. He regenerates our affections, our desires and our energies, and He strengthens our wills.
Beautiful, ethical precepts cannot save us, but Christ can. When Christ comes into a life, He revolutionizes it so that the person becomes a "new creation." This, and this alone, is our hope.
This hope that was given to those shepherds on that first Christmas morning is available only to those who believe. To know the pardon, joy, peace and power that come through Christ, we must personally receive Christ by faith. Faith must be real if our hearts are to be changed. Mere intellectual assent is not enough. Where faith is genuine, its influence is powerful and revolutionary. This Christmas, many people believe that Jesus is the Son of God, without any change happening in their lives. They have never repented. What an astounding change would take place if the millions who profess to be Christians possessed genuine faith.
When we have genuine faith in Christ, a change takes place. We will have a new kind of relationship with our families, our employers, our employees and even our enemies.
Many people ask, "Why doesn't this revolution happen to more people?" It is because millions of professing Christians are strangers to the genuine, saving faith that means coming to the end of ourselves, to the end of our self-reliance and self-righteousness, and then trusting absolutely in Christ for forgiveness and for moral and spiritual renewal.
The Christmas angels praised God and proclaimed peace on earth. It was by and through Jesus Christ that peace was to come to the earth. Scripture says, "He himself is our peace" (Ephesians 2:14, NIV). All else is confusion, discord and disorder. Jesus Christ is life's integrator. He is humanity's harmonizer, the races' reconciler, the world's peace-giver: "Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord" (Luke 2:11, NIV).
Many of you long for peace in your own hearts this Christmas. You can meet God at the foot of the cross and find the peace that you have sought for so long. You ask, "What do I have to do?" Repent of your sins. By faith receive Christ as your Savior and Lord and Master. Commit your life to Him. He will come into your heart, and this Christmas you can know the Christ of Christmas.
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
My daughter says that schools choirs can still sing about Jesus in the Christmas programs because it is considered literature.
The good news is that kids will be reminded that Jesus is the reason for the season.
betty
Singing a song that has been reclassified literature is only another way of compromissing the truth.
Compromissed truth has never been good news.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
|
posted
My daughter says that schools choirs can still sing about Jesus in the Christmas programs because it is considered literature.
The good news is that kids will be reminded that Jesus is the reason for the season.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
"Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and beg for Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers, and our country"
* * * News Flash * * *
Good evening. This is Charlene Lewis for the 6:00 news. Today, June 25, 1962, the Supreme Court has ruled that school prayer and Bible reading shall cease in all public school systems. It is now official; God has been removed from the classroom in the United States of America
* * * News Flash * * *
The ball got dropped in '62
They wouldn't let children pray in school
Violent crime began to rise
The grades went down and the kids got high
Free love, gay rights, no absolutes, abortion on demand
Brought VD, AIDS, and no morality
Today no one knows right from wrong
There's blood on people's hands
World, you had your turn at bat
Now stand back and see
That it's our turn now
Something's gonna change
We're gonna bind the devil at every hand by the power of Jesus' name
Well, it's our turn now think it no surprise
When the gates of hell come crashing down
And you begin to see the church arise
The Supreme Court said, "No God at all"
With the Ten Commandments on their wall
God's Word in the library won't appear
We have a religious apartheid here
Humanism, atheism, no Bible, our consciences have died
We need to seek our God and call His name
The church triumphant's still alive and we're gonna turn the tide
'Cause with boldness and conviction, we proclaim
Arise and shine, for the Light has come
It's time to lift the name of Jesus high
Yes, it's our turn now
Something's gonna change
We're gonna bind that devil at every hand by the power of Jesus' name
It's our turn now, think it no surprise
When the gates of hell come crashing down
You begin to see the church arise
It's our turn now
It's no surprise
See those gates of hell crash down
When you begin to see the church arise.
(Carman's song http://members.aol.com/usaforgod/carman.htm#OurTurnNow )
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
|
posted
That's funny, I don't recall the stores being involved in our Christmas Concerts at my school.
But I did go to a redneck school. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Wow, do you think that heaven is rejoicing?
Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
No. But I know the merchants are. What a slick plan.
mer·chant (mûr'chənt) pronunciation
n.
1. One whose occupation is the wholesale purchase and retail sale of goods for profit.
2. One who runs a retail business; a shopkeeper.
So let us invoke the name of Christ befor this indulgence of mammon.
But let us remember that the rich wise men never got stable poop on their sandels the night Jesus was born.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
|
posted
Do I believe that Jesus is happy with the way the ACLU is removing Jesus from Christmas? No.
No matter what you think, Christmas in America started out as a Relegious Holiday. When I was in First Grade teachers could talk about Jesus and the reason for the season. It is only through the work of people like the ACLU that Relegious freedom is being taken away from us. When I was in Junior High, we actually were allowed to have Relegious themes in Student Assemblies and we even had Relegious Christmas Concerts in Junior High and High School.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
No Betty. I do not make fun of people. I do sometimes poke fun at people like teasing Thunder the other day about exposing Hal Linsay's faux pax the other day, or teasing Drew about eating his green beans when his avatar turned green, I am sure I have poked fun at BA a time or two for something, but I dont make fun of people. And I was neither poking fun at or making fun of you.
I was making a political statement of sorts I guess.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
|
posted
Are you making fun of me?
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
Wow, do you think that heaven is rejoicing?
Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
|
posted
Target, Sears do about-face, say they'll include ‘Christmas’
By Tom Strode
Dec 13, 2005
WASHINGTON (BP)--Two of the country’s largest retail chains have reversed course and are now directly acknowledging Christmas in their in-store promotions and advertising.
Target and Sears both informed the American Family Association, a pro-family organization based in Tupelo, Miss., they are using “Christmas,” thereby changing their recent practice. As a result of Target’s decision, AFA announced it would end its boycott of the chain. Although AFA had not called for a boycott of Sears and its subsidiary, Kmart, the organization had listed the company as one of those that had banned “Christmas” in favor of more generic words, such as “holiday.”
Pro-family leaders who had called for changes by offending retailers welcomed the decisions.
“We are pleased to learn that Target has heard our concerns and decided to use Christmas in their advertising and marketing efforts,” AFA Chairman Donald Wildmon said in announcing the end of the boycott in a written statement. “We think you will see a different approach next year.
“Corporate America is getting the word from the grassroots,” he said.
Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, commended AFA, other groups and Americans who “expressed their outrage to these large retail outlets and who exercised the stewardship of their purchasing power to bring about a 180-degree reversal by these corporate giants.”
“In the ongoing campaign by a small minority of rabid secularists to expunge the acknowledgment of the Christian heritage of much of our nation, a powerful counterweight is an aroused American citizenry that refuses to be pummeled any longer by these secular elitists,” Land told Baptist Press. “This should be a warning to all of those who seek to bow to the gods of political correctness, and the warning is, ‘Christians aren’t going to take it anymore, and there will be a heavy price to be paid for discriminating against people of religious faith.’”
Land and 24 signers affiliated with state Baptist conventions had urged Target, Sears and Home Depot in Dec. 6 letters to reverse their refusal to use the word “Christmas” in their store signs and advertising. Though they did not threaten a boycott, Land and the other signers asked for the companies to make the change “before Christians take their business to stores more supportive of their values.”
In their letter to Target Chief Executive Officer Robert Ulrich, the signers said about 85 percent of the American public professes Christianity or sympathizes with Christianity. “It is extremely hard for us to understand why you would discriminate against these fine people who have supported your company over the years,” the letter said. “In fact, there just might not be a Target without the purchases of Christians.
“Maybe it is politically correct these days to replace our true and tried values, but we think a time will come when Target and other businesses will regret their part in destroying the true meaning of Christmas,” Land and the others said.
They communicated the same message to Sears CEO Aylwin Lewis and Home Depot CEO Bob Nardelli.
On Dec. 7, AFA announced Sears had contacted its office to inform the pro-family organization it was placing “Merry Christmas” signs in its stores. It also had posted a Christmas greeting on its Internet site, Sears told AFA.
AFA revealed Target’s decision in a Dec. 9 release. “Over the course of the next few weeks, our advertising, marketing and merchandising will become more specific to the holiday that is approaching -– referring directly to holidays like Christmas and Hanukkah,” Target said in its statement, according to AFA. “For example, you will see reference to Christmas in select television commercials, circulars and in-store signage.”
Wildmon said almost 700,000 people had declared their intention to boycott Target by signing onto a list on the AFA website.
In addition to Target’s omission of “Christmas,” AFA also had objected to the chain’s decision, beginning last year, not to permit Salvation Army bell ringers to collect for the charity in front of its stores. In November, Target entered into a partnership with the Salvation Army to enable customers to order items online to donate to hurricane victims and others.
In addition to the responses by Target and Sears, Lowe’s also informed AFA in late November it was removing outside banners that referred to “holiday trees’ in favor of signs that read “Christmas trees.”
The following companies continue to omit “Christmas” from their advertising or in-store promotions, according to AFA: Best Buy, Nordstrom, Office Max and Staples.
The following leaders, listed with their state Baptist convention or other affiliation, joined Land in signing onto the letters to Target, Sears and Home Depot: Rodney Albert, Missouri Baptist Convention; David Baldwin, Alaska Baptist Convention; Thane Barnes, Nevada Baptist Convention; Howard Beauman, Kentucky Ethics League; Timothy Boyd, Kansas-Nebraska Convention of Southern Baptists; William Bunkley, Florida Baptist Convention; Timothy Clark, Utah-Idaho Southern Baptist Convention; Michael Collins, Baptist State Convention of Michigan; Mark Creech, Christian Action League of North Carolina; Steve Davis, State Convention of Baptists in Indiana; Mark Edlund, Colorado Baptist General Convention; Leo Endel, Minnesota-Wisconsin Baptist Convention; Terry Harper, West Virginia Convention of Southern Baptists; Dan Ireland, Alabama Citizens Action Program; David Lee, Baptist Convention of Maryland/Delaware; Joseph Mack, South Carolina Baptist Convention; Joe Bob Mizzell, Alabama Baptist State Convention; Ray Newman, Georgia Baptist Convention; Glen Owens, Florida Baptist Convention; Jimmy Porter, Mississippi Baptist Convention; Terry Robertson, Baptist Convention of New York; Audrey Smith, State Convention of Baptists in Ohio; Phil Strickland, Baptist General Convention of Texas, and Jim Wideman, Baptist Convention of New England.
--30--
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
