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Author
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Topic: Osteen interview with Larry King
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HisGrace
unregistered
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posted
Dear Friend,
Many of you have called, written or e-mailed regarding my recent appearance on Larry King Live. I appreciate your comments and value your words of correction and encouragement.
It was never my desire or intention to leave any doubt as to what I believe and Whom I serve. I believe with all my heart that it is only through Christ that we have hope in eternal life. I regret and sincerely apologize that I was unclear on the very thing in which I have dedicated my life.
Jesus declared in John 14; I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me. I believe that Jesus Christ alone is the only way to salvation. However, it wasn’t until I had the opportunity to review the transcript of the interview that I realize I had not clearly stated that having a personal relationship with Jesus is the only way to heaven. It’s about the individual’s choice to follow Him.
God has given me a platform to present the Gospel to a very diverse audience. In my desire not to alienate the people that Jesus came to save, I did not clearly communicate the convictions that I hold so precious.
I will use this as a learning experience and believe that God will ultimately use it for my good and His glory. I am comforted by the fact that He sees my heart and knows my intentions. I am so thankful that I have friends, like you, who are willing to share their concerns with me.
Thank you again to those who have written. I hope that you accept my deepest apology and see it in your heart to extend to me grace and forgiveness.
As always, I covet your prayers and I am believing for God’s best in your life,
Signed
Joel Osteen
Our true Christian love is going to be tested if we can sincerely accept the apology of this truly humbled man.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Oh, good. I thought I was maybe losing my mind.
It occurs to me that if you are born again, you are becoming more like Jesus, and so any changes that we see will be changes in that direction.
So when I hear someone say: I will not use the word sinner, I think well that is funny because Jesus did.
When I hear someone say, people probably already know they are doing wrong, I think well you know the Bible says that the carnal mind does not war against the flesh and cannot know the things of God, and so the lost cannot know that they are doing wrong except that we say that sin is sin.
King asked this about this persons book: But it doesn't quote a lot of biblical passages until the back of the book, right?
And his reply was: "It doesn't do a whole lot of it. My message, I wanted to reach the mainstream"
When I hear that my mind says Hmmm. You want to reach mainstream, with your message. But Jesus wants us to reach main stream with his message, and that message is the WHOLE of the Scripture.
When I hear this: "o I just try to, what I do is just try to teach practical principles. I may not bring the scripture in until the end of my sermon and i might feel bad about that. Here's the thought. I talked yesterday about living to give. That's what a life should be about. I brought in at the end about some of the scriptures that talk about that. But same principal in the book. "
What I hear is that his message is the important one in his mind and the scripture is an after thought that he pulls in at the end. Jesus said man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH from the Father God.
Jesus said, I do nothing except what the father does and shows me to do; Jesus did not bring his words he brought the Father's word. He is the father's word. How can we do the opposite and call it the work of the Holy Spirit?
King says: KING: Because we've had ministers on who said, your record don't count. You either believe in Christ or you don't. If you believe in Christ, you are, you are going to heaven. And if you don't no matter what you've done in your life, you ain't.
Osteen says:OSTEEN: Yeah, I don't know. There's probably a balance between.
A balance between what???? My Bible says if you believe in Christ, you are going to heaven and if you dont your not, period. There is no balance between. Were does it say that your works will save you? Where does it say that works ever saved anyone. Salvation is a gift apart from works. The saved do work good works meet of repentence; but there is no salvation by works apart from Christ!
KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're (Muslims & Jews)wrong, aren't they?
OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong.
He does not know???? These reject Christ and he does not know if they are wrong?????
Here is what the Holy Spirit does in the world:
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
How is it that a man who preaches the Gospel of Christ is not himself convinced of the sin that they The sciptures say that the Holy Spirit is come into the world to convence the world of?
Osteen says quote:
I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know.
The Bible says you cannot know God except that you know and believe in the SON of God that is Christ! So what ever he thinks that he sees, he is as deceived as those he speaks of because what they worship is not GOD!
KING: How about issues that the church has feelings about? Abortion? Same-sex marriages?
OSTEEN: Yeah. You know what, Larry? I don't go there. I just ...
KING: You have thoughts, though.
OSTEEN: I have thoughts. I just, you know, I don't think that a same-sex marriage is the way God intended it to be. I don't think abortion is the best. I think there are other, you know, a better way to live your life. But I'm not going to condemn those people. I tell them all the time our church is open for everybody.
Why? Why would you not tell them what jesus did? Jesus said it would be better to cut off your hand that caused you to sin than the whole body to be cast in the fire of ghenna, but this man who claims to be a preacher of Christ will not God where Christ went????
Church is not a place! Church is a people and it is not all people. Church is the people that are willing to go where christ goes, and this man has stated here that he is not willing.
Osteen says: quote:
When I get them to church I want to tell them that you can change. There can be a difference in your life.
Is this what what paul taught? I dont think so. Paul taught the Gospel that says YOU Are A SINNER, REPENT, BELIEVE, and GOD WILL CHANGE YOU.
Paul did not teach you can change!!!! Paul taught you will be changed Repent and believe! This is what jesus taught also.
KING: But you're not fire and brimstone, right? You're not pound the decks and hell and dam nation?
OSTEEN: No. That's not me. It's never been me. I've always been an encourager at heart. And when I took over from my father he came from the Southern Baptist background and back 40, 50 years ago there was a lot more of that. But, you know, I just -- I don't believe in that. I don't believe -- maybe it was for a time.
Maybe it was for a time? It was for the time that Jesus preached it. Has God changed?
I know that there are those here who can defend this, but I cannot understand how. I dont say that to offend, I say that because it is incomprehsible to me to be able to call this good. It is impossible for me to see this as anything but the work of Satan.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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hardcore
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Member # 4492
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
quote:
A born again Christian admonishing him for discussing a clear plan of salvation - I don't get it???
They were not admonishing him, they were praising him and putting in a dig at Couric; At least that is how I took it the day that this was posted and I read it. I dont think Couric is Christian.
You are correct HFHS. I was indeed praising Franklin for the stand he took on national television. I was doubly pleased because he did it in an interview with Couric.
She has made disparaging remarks about Christians, so I knew his comments must have been quite unsettling for her.
I have heard people say that God must have a sense of humor. If so, maybe we saw a glimpse of it then; yet most importantly, He got His message out to all who would hear.
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
It was awesome to say the very least. Franklin told it like it is. That Jesus the Christ was and is the Only way and he said that ALL will bow down before Him and confess that He alone is Lord.
He did not back down to any questions asked, he did not compromise, He told the whole TRUTH. Now thats a man I have respect for in rightly dividing Gods word and standing firm on Gods word. I do not know much of his dad Billy Graham, but now Franklin was a powerful voice last night, no doubt Spirit lead.
Amen - that just shows the difference in perception that is seen concerning these Godly men.
On this very Board these comments have been made about Franklin Graham -
"Yes! This morning on NBC's Today Show, I saw Katie Couric (ugh!) interview Franklin Graham about the pope. In the process, he laid out a clear plan of salvation.. It must have made her nuts to have to sit through it. Heh heh!"
A born again Christian admonishing him for discussing a clear plan of salvation - I don't get it???
Another Quote -
"They say Franklin Graham is a bigot, intolerrant, and that he spews hate speech."
I see the above as empty words with no substance to them.
I was the one who said this:
"Yes! This morning on NBC's Today Show, I saw Katie Couric (ugh!) interview Franklin Graham about the pope. In the process, he laid out a clear plan of salvation.. It must have made her nuts to have to sit through it. Heh heh!"
and that's why I said this:
"I have heard that Franklin is starting to go down some of the same questionable path as his father, but I have not personally seen evidence of it. Hopefully, I won't. Sounds like this interview is a good sign!"
Since I have not personally seen or heard Franklin Graham say anything contrary to scripture, I would not accuse him of such, or rely on hearsay.
Sounds to me like the comment about him being a bigot and an intolerant hate-speech spewer (say that three times fast) was made by a non-Christian. It's to be expected, and hopefully a believer would not agree with it unless they had clear evidence.
The intolerant bigot comment about Franklin may indeed be empty words as you say, and probably are. However, it has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
The Osteen interview is an entirely different matter. His words are there for all to see. You can't deny them. There is no dispute as to what he said, and what he refused to say.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
A born again Christian admonishing him for discussing a clear plan of salvation - I don't get it???
They were not admonishing him, they were praising him and putting in a dig at Couric; At least that is how I took it the day that this was posted and I read it. I dont think Couric is Christian.
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bygrace
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posted
Amen Hardcore. Indeed the silence is quite telling. If I were so adament about an issue, why would I refuse to address it? This would be pointless, as if I had no view at all.
I am talking about addressing specifics though, not general defenses of "they would never say this or that" When in fact the evidence sitting in front of them solidifies it.
Indeed there is a great falling away.
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hardcore
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quote:
bygrace:
It is the entire interview, as a whole that must be addressed....just because a few "correct" things are stated, this does not wash over the "incorrect" things.
Exactly. It's like the brownie with 99% chocolate and 1% poison. Would you eat the brownie?
None of the specific issues we've voiced concern about have been addressed by those who defend Osteen, even though some have asked repeatedly.
Either someone will have to admit that Osteen's words are more important to them than our Lord's, or they will have to admit that they were wrong.
The silence is very telling.
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SoftTouch
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quote:
Originally posted by bygrace:
This was not the interview as a whole.
The things that were questioned were not included in your post.
KING: You don't call them sinners?
OSTEEN: I don't.
KING: Is that a word you don't use?
OSTEEN: I don't use it. I never thought about it. But I probably don't. But most people already know what they're doing wrong. When I get them to church I want to tell them that you can change. There can be a difference in your life. So I don't go down the road of condemning
Interesting, not using the word sinner? no condemning? Without conviction of sin, there is no salvation. I think this was one thing debated. I put up a Ray Comfort article on another thread that deals with pastors not dealing with repentance and the ramifications.
I do realize that we all have different favorites as far as preaching styles, but the content must always stay the same. It is the entire interview, asa whole that must be addressed....just because a few "correct" things are stated, this does not wash over the "incorrect" things.
bygrace
Amen Bygrace!!! The 'ignoring of the sin issue' seems to be at the very heart of so many of the apostate teachers. They replace it with the 'feel good, be a good person, talk to God, and you'll go to heaven' watered down gospel that will not save anyone! Without confessing our Sin to God the Father, Repenting of our sins, and accepting Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf, there is No Salvation! You can't leave this out - It's Vital!
The part of the interview that HisGrace quoted says nothing about these issues... The Devil knows there is a heaven and a hell too, but he won't tell you anything about your need to Confess your sins, Repent from them, and ask God to Forgive you and recieve God's Salvation by Grace through your Faith in the Blood of Jesus Christ which was shed for the forgiveness of those sins.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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bygrace
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posted
Sorry, didn't post this one before...it was another part that I questioned.
Understand, I did at one time listen to Joel on a regular basis...I am not judging his entire ministry, just the recent messages I am hearing coming from his camp. It seems to be becoming a more comprimising message.
KING: How about issues that the church has feelings about? Abortion? Same-sex marriages?
OSTEEN: Yeah. You know what, Larry? I don't go there. I just ...
KING: You have thoughts, though.
OSTEEN: I have thoughts. I just, you know, I don't think that a same-sex marriage is the way God intended it to be. I don't think abortion is the best. I think there are other, you know, a better way to live your life. But I'm not going to condemn those people. I tell them all the time our church is open for everybody.
This to me, is not a way to show sin for what it is to the unbeliever. Yes, the church is to be open, but not accomidating....
No you don't condemn them after they have repented, you help them in their new walk...but what about before that? (1 Cor.1:18)
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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To non Christians knowing you did something wrong and acknowledging sin is too different things. Most people say "Yeah I'm not perfect, but neither is anybody else". The world as a whole has too much pride to ask Jesus for forgiveness.
Pride is one of the devil's favorite weapons.
But back to the subject at hand. Teaching people that they make mistakes is not the answers. You have to admit you are a sinner before you can be saved.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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bygrace
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This was not the interview as a whole.
The things that were questioned were not included in your post.
KING: You don't call them sinners?
OSTEEN: I don't.
KING: Is that a word you don't use?
OSTEEN: I don't use it. I never thought about it. But I probably don't. But most people already know what they're doing wrong. When I get them to church I want to tell them that you can change. There can be a difference in your life. So I don't go down the road of condemning
Interesting, not using the word sinner? no condemning? Without conviction of sin, there is no salvation. I think this was one thing debated. I put up a Ray Comfort article on another thread that deals with pastors not dealing with repentance and the ramifications.
I do realize that we all have different favorites as far as preaching styles, but the content must always stay the same. It is the entire interview, asa whole that must be addressed....just because a few "correct" things are stated, this does not wash over the "incorrect" things.
bygrace
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HisGrace
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In defence of Joel Osteen-It has been said that Joel Osteen, in his interview, denied that Jesus is the only way.
"OSTEEN: He is a hero to us all. His life of integrity. Somebody that can stick with for that long and just stick with his message. What I love about Dr. Graham is he stayed on course. He didn't get sidetracked. That's what happens to so many people today. It's a good lesson for me, a good example for me to say, you know what, Joel, you may have a lot now but I want to be here 40 years from now sitting with you.
KING: Do you share Billy's beliefs of life after death in a sense of going somewhere?
OSTEEN: I do. I do. We probably agree on 99 percent. I do. I believe there's a heaven you know. Afterwards, there's, you know, a place called hell. And I believe it's when we have a relationship with God and his son Jesus and that's what the Bible teaches us. I believe it."
(In all of the sermons that I have heard Billy Graham preach he always says that Jesus is the only way.)
"KING: Are you asking for money?
OSTEEN: We never have. Never have. Since my dad started. I started a television ministry for my father back in '83. That was one decision we made. We just don't ask for money. We never have, we never will. You know, it's -- I don't criticize people that do. Some of them have to. But I just, I don't want anything to pull away from the message.
KING: How do you get the money to get the time on television?
OSTEEN: The church supports it."
(That's Amazing)
"KING: You believe in the Bible literally?
OSTEEN: I do, I do.
KING: Noah had an ark and Adam and Eve?
OSTEEN: I do. I do. I believe that. I believe it all."
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bygrace
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My husband told me about the interview...
I didn't know about anyone having said something about Franklin Graham. I thought it was Billy Graham but I don't remember the specifics.
Franklin is being praised because he has preached the truth, the others were not praised because of the opposite. The fact that Franklin is still preaching repentance and the true Gospel in no way changes the fact that the others are not.
bygrace
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
It was awesome to say the very least. Franklin told it like it is. That Jesus the Christ was and is the Only way and he said that ALL will bow down before Him and confess that He alone is Lord.
He did not back down to any questions asked, he did not compromise, He told the whole TRUTH. Now thats a man I have respect for in rightly dividing Gods word and standing firm on Gods word. I do not know much of his dad Billy Graham, but now Franklin was a powerful voice last night, no doubt Spirit lead.
Amen - that just shows the difference in perception that is seen concerning these Godly men.
On this very Board these comments have been made about Franklin Graham -
"Yes! This morning on NBC's Today Show, I saw Katie Couric (ugh!) interview Franklin Graham about the pope. In the process, he laid out a clear plan of salvation.. It must have made her nuts to have to sit through it. Heh heh!"
A born again Christian admonishing him for discussing a clear plan of salvation - I don't get it???
Another Quote -
"They say Franklin Graham is a bigot, intolerrant, and that he spews hate speech."
I see the above as empty words with no substance to them.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif) Amen and Amen, Redkermit!
This very point comes to my mind when I hear of the unsaved that are flocking to by Rick Warren's purpose drive life just as much as are Christians. It amzaes me that this does not speak to more people ![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif)
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redkermit
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A local newspaper has a section called "Talk Back". People can leave anonymous messages or send emails to the paper & they are printed anonymously in this section. There was an interesting quote in yesterday's paper where the person said something along the lines of...
"Coming from a non-Christian, non-religious person, if the world had more Christians like Billy Graham, the world would be a better place."
I don't know enough about Billy Graham myself to make a call on the things that have been discussed here. I don't listen to him, and can't say as though I have ever heard him preach. I have never seen him interviewed, either. But, I found this quote interesting especially with all that's been posted here about Graham. Interesting that a non-Christian would find him to be such a "great person", and that the world needs more people like him. Now, I don't doubt he is a great person, but if we are preaching the Word, then we will cause offense. So, that's why it intrigued me that this comment would come from a non-Christian/non-religious person...
Luke 12
Not Peace but Division
49"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is completed! 51Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
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I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)
1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Let us please please pray on behalf of Franklin Graham that his faith not fail. I too have praised God as he has stood solid on the Gospel truth at every opportunity in the public forum; when the pope died, he gave a wonderful interview that proclaimed the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the world on national tv and he did not compromise!!! May God protect him from the deception that his father is opperating under and my he remain strong in faith and never compromise. I too have heard rumors, but I have seen and heard the opposite from his mouth, and I pray to God that he not be shaken of the devil and that his faith not fail. May he be like Peter that his faith not fail. You know that Satan does indeed desire to shake him.
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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quote:
KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?
OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...
now that's crazy... ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
Did anyone see the interview with Franklin Graham by Bill O'Riley last night?
It was awesome to say the very least. Franklin told it like it is. That Jesus the Christ was and is the Only way and he said that ALL will bow down before Him and confess that He alone is Lord.
He did not back down to any questions asked, he did not compromise, He told the whole TRUTH. Now thats a man I have respect for in rightly dividing Gods word and standing firm on Gods word. I do not know much of his dad Billy Graham, but now Franklin was a powerful voice last night, no doubt Spirit lead.
Anyways, just wanted to share that. It sure was a lot different than the Joel Olsteen interview. Shalom
I have heard that Franklin is starting to go down some of the same questionable path as his father, but I have not personally seen evidence of it. Hopefully, I won't. Sounds like this interview is a good sign!
And isn't is just like God to turn right around after Osteen's lame interview and use someone else to get the proper message out in a powerful way?
Something for Osteen defenders to consider:
Which man's message do you think our Lord is pleased with? If facing each of them today, to which preacher would God say "Well done, thou good and faithful servant"?
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yahsway
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posted
Did anyone see the interview with Franklin Graham by Bill O'Riley last night?
It was awesome to say the very least. Franklin told it like it is. That Jesus the Christ was and is the Only way and he said that ALL will bow down before Him and confess that He alone is Lord.
He did not back down to any questions asked, he did not compromise, He told the whole TRUTH. Now thats a man I have respect for in rightly dividing Gods word and standing firm on Gods word. I do not know much of his dad Billy Graham, but now Franklin was a powerful voice last night, no doubt Spirit lead.
Anyways, just wanted to share that. It sure was a lot different than the Joel Olsteen interview. Shalom
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bygrace
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THe reason I said this Gramajo, was because you still have yet to answer the question:
HAVE YOU READ THE INTERVIEW???
You have repeated the same things, without answering.
As for me being rude? Look back at your laughing posts!
I'll give respect where respect is due.
From the very first posts I read of yours when I first joined this board, I found you to be a firestarter, and I do not withdraw my statement of mindless banter...it is what it is.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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2Cr 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,
2Cr 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
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There has got to be a difference in a Preacher of God's Word and an inspirational speaker. Yes, an inspirational speaker can improve our lifestyle, but folks the job of a preacher is to improve our life after death. No Christian should water down the truth, side step speaking the truth, or out right refuse to answer a question for fear it will ruin their popularity. How many people are in jail this very night for declaring their personal faith in Jesus Christ? Do you think they have sympathy for Joel Osteen and his refusal to admit that it is a sin to get an abortion or that Jesus is the only way to Heaven?
God help us when we become more concern with defending Joel Osteen then speaking the truth of God's Word. Instead of taking the truth as a personal affront to one another. Folks let us pray that Joel Osteen and Billy Graham and others will become courageous and speak the truth of God's Word.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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TEXASGRANDMA
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The saddest thing about this is how people have turned this thread into a personal assult on each other. Linda is correct, we do need to stand up for God and His Holy Word. When Preachers, go on T.V. and deny the truth of God's Word, they have betrayed our Savior Jesus.
There has been those who berate the messenger of the crime. Yes, it is a crime for a Christian to deny the teaching of Jesus.
We are a Christian BBS. Let's try to treat each other with love. Hiding our head under the bed is not the answer. The truth is some Preachers are more concerned with numbers than souls. Pretending this is not true, does not make it not true.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
GrandmaJo; you have not berated or been rude; you have only encouraged those who have been. To your credit; you do work very hard at not being rude to anyone. I am very sorry that my writing above miscommunicated that point. Others have been rude and berating of those who would speak against popular TV people and you have encouraged them at the expense of others.
I do not have anything against you apart from you fueling these battles in this way. Indeed I did do the wrong thing in banning you with out going to David first as my agreement with David had been this that I would go to him first, and because I did not do that David removed the ban.
I have the upmost respect for David and I support that decision 100% to restore the members that he did. A lot of trouble would have been avoided if I had gone to David and told him of the issues that were going on and what I wanted to do about them. It was very wrong of me not to do that though my motives were of concern for David and for the board, my actions were wrongly gone about and I do take full responsibilty for that. In the three years that I have been here David has never gone against a decision I made and has supported me fully. But I always went to him first and he did go to us - the others before he made such decisions and that was how it was supposed it go and I acted wrongly by not doing that, so I could not expect David to stand behind that.
I resigned my position as moderator here because I do not feel that God desires me in that position any longer and I believed that he did not desire me to be here at all, but since then, he has given me some things to say and I have said them. I am trying to enjoy just being a member here and enjoying the fellowship I have with others here, but I cannot be silent while people kick the sheep because they do not like what the sheep have to say and if you come to encourage those who kick the sheep then you and I will be at odds and I do not want to be at odds, but neither do I want to see people kick the sheep.
Again, I have shared many good things with you here and have been blessed by many of the posts that you have made, like the one on how do you go about showing God's love... I cannot remember the name, but you gave us some testimony in that that richly blessed me. I have never and do not now, nor would I ever question your being born again, and I now also do understand even some of the things that you did that fueled arguments that I did not understand before because I did not understand relationships of those involved and now I do.
I have no probelms with you and very much desire to heal this chasim, but not at the expense of this continuing against those who post against the apostasy.
I have never been one to take sides based on relationships, even my own children have troube with this. I side with the Bible period and you have no idea the things that went on and others who were rebuked very toughtly over some of the things that were said to you and to Jim and to HisGrace. I am not aware of the PM that you speak of much to the surprise of FM, I do not have access to such things and I asked for a copy because I assure you that I would not have taken such a thing lightly and I do not now.
Again, I do not know what else to say to you. I do desire reconcilliation. I have no no no ill feelings apart from what I have said and that is that it does not help the situation and is not right to be a cheering squad when people are berating others.
There is no one person in that whole group that I do not love sincerely. That does not change wrong to right for me.
I assure you that if these attacks against those who speak against the apsotasy will stop then I will be silent, as I have nothing ill to say of anyone except for that.
I have no problem with debate of theology or doctrine or scriptural interpretation, we all learn from each other this way and there is not one here that I have not learned something from or through and I thank God for this and for each of them. But it is wrong to beat the sheep, and it is wrong to encourage beating the sheep.
We all have different parts in this body and all parts are necessary.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Gramajo320
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Homeschoolers,
I truly do not understand why you've posted to me in this manner. Since coming back on the board, thanks to David who corrected a sad mistake that had been made against me and some others by a certain someone, I've certainly not berated anyone nor been rude to anyone nor tried to shut you or any one up nor tried to make you or anyone else believe the way I'm led to believe. You are now accusing me of things I have not done. For that matter I've done very little encouraging. I only post what I know to be true and what I believe and as I'm led by the Holy Spirit to post. I sometimes get the very strong feeling that you really and truly do not want me on this board and that you'd really like to see me gone.
Why this is I do not know - God knows and I put it in His hands. However since you posted what you did I have to respond and what I've been and am writing is my reponse to you. I have no dislike of you and no animosity toward you nor anyone else but I refuse to accept accusations from you that aren't true.
In all honesty you've always seemed to have some sort of problem regarding me and you've shown it in both subtle and overt ways and it has always been so apparent to me. Your reasons for this I do not understand either - your reasons are known only by you and some others you shared that with. I say this because quite sometime ago I got a pm from your sister telling me how very much you and a few others dislike me and I'm certain you know who those others are that she referred to. I believe them to be the same ones you mention in your above posting. Anyway I chose to totally ignore her pm and I absolutely did not respond to her. Actually the beliefs I have are much the same as the beliefs you have.
I'm a born again believer in Jesus Christ and my aim is to follow Jesus Christ and His teachings.
The Holy Spirit leads me to post what I do on the board. I have a great deal of discernment and I use that discernment.
I enjoy being on this board and that's the way it is. Satan does all he can to discourage me and he tries to do his level best to make me just give up but the Holy Spirit keeps me going.
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Gramajo320
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
GrandmaJo, I understood that you must have had a reason and I respected that and that is why, while I sincerely did want to hear your thoughts, I thanked you for your response, which I did consider kind.
Yes, souls are number one priority. I have to concerns in this regard and I share them with you not because I want you to think like I think
(by the way, it often feels like you and others here do also want us who disagree to think like you think, as you rarely debate our accuracy or inaccuracy according to scripture, but just condemn the fact that we speak out)
anyway I share this not that you would think like I think, but that you would know why I think the way I do.
I fear because the Bible says false teachers will gather souls that will believe that they are saved, but will not be because they are drawn to a Christ that is not Christ and thus cannot save.
I fear also because as I have said earlier, I believe that it is our duty to pray for these who are falling away; Jesus prayed for Peter that his faith not fail. I do not see that I can rightly pray for a brother that is falling away unless I am willing to accept that he is falling away.
I think that it is not loving to love someone with the world's love right into hell.
God's love requires us to value the soul of the other above all things. Paul said it was to their shame that the Corintian church did not mourn for this one that Paul was going to have to put out of the fellowship because of his sin. I see that we should be mourning for these who have labored for the Lord and today we see being deceived of the devil and are deceiving others.
When I was a child, I loved Billy Graham, he used to preach at our state fair every year; I would listen to him preach. I had an athiest father and no discipling and so I longed to hear about Jesus and I did hear from Billy Graham. Today, in my office there are Billy Graham tapes, wonderful old movies and some of his crusades; I have the book Just As I Am, and several others many of them very old about his life; the day that I had to face his apostasy, I cried. It was so sad to me. I do pray that God would not let this be for Billy Graham, but if I were not willing to see his apostasy as apostasy, I could not pray for his repentance and that the devil would not continue to deceive him. I believe that this day Billy Graham believes a lie and it is heartbreaking. But I thank God that he has allowed me to see it, because that allows me to pray, and to possibly keep someone else from stumbling and being deceived. Until the day that Christ sets his foot on the mount of Oilves, there is opportunity for repentance. On that day I want to be found praying for those who the enemy has and is deceiving. If I deny the enemy's work, I will also deny the work that God is doing because where the enemy is working God is also working to destroy his works.
I understand that you may not agree and see things as I do; but I do not think that it is right of you and others here whom you do also encourage to berate myself and Deb and Yahsway and bygrace, and caretaker and Ripp and all the others that do see things this way.
So if we can not find unity in HIS spirit on these matters then please at least could you stop trying to shut up those you disagree with and give us at least the same respect that you give these who preach contrary to the scripture.
Maybe you do not want to hear it and that is fine, dont read it; but I assure you that God wants someone to hear it and he confirms that daily in emails and PM's from those who say thank you for speaking out.
If I do err in doctrine or you can post scripture to show the error then do, or even give a different perspective that we have not thought of, then please please do.
I would not want you to have some understanding that I need and not share it. But to continually do nothing but make rude remarks and comments and digs as some have or to cheer on those who are doing this for no other reason that to defend a human over the word of God is wrong.
The implications that have been made here that this man who clearly has publically denied Christ is the ONLY way to salvation is annointed and those who see him as apostate are not and are in danger of judgment for saying that this is apostasy is unbeleavable to me, and yes I am very aware that you did not make that implication, but you did encourage the one who did and you have done so many times in the past. That too is ubelievable to me. I truely do not understand this and I desire greatly to understand this; but not as much as I desire to see it stop.
If we do not like the message then we should refute the message based on the word that we all learn from one another, but berating or making fun of or making rude comments about the messenger for having the message is not right.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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TEXASGRANDMA
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We can try to excuse Joel Osteen for his behavior on Larry King, but what does this do to a lay person? How is the people in his Church suppose to stand up for God at work, when they see their leader refusing to do so himself?
The truth is it is just as hard to stand for the truth of God's Word for a lay person on the job as it is for a PReacher. In fact I believe it is more so. If Joel Osteen had said yes, the Bible does say abortion is wrong and yes Jesus is the only way to Heaven, Larry King would not have been shocked. He knows the Bible. Joel Osteen would still have his job, either way. He let down his Church but more important he let down Jesus our Lord and Savior. Yes, we are all inperfect. All of us make mistakes, but denying God's Word on T.V. is just too sad for words.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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yahsway
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It is sad but many of our preachers today are "falling away" as the scriptures said many people would.
Perhaps they are the ones that say Lord, Lord look what we did in your Name and He says depart from me you workers of lawlessness, I never knew you.
Many people probably have come to know Jesus thru these pastors preaching, but that does not negate the fact that these preachers are falling away into deception. Just read that interview again. Its compromise.
If Joel is denying the fact at anytime that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way, which I believe he did in that interview, then he is at risk for what Jesus Himself said He would do if men deny Him. He would deny them in front of the Father.
Joel Olsteen needs our prayers that he would BOLDLY preach the gospel and the true Gospel of Sinners in need of a Savior, Jesus, and that He is the only way and that there is a real hell and many are headed there if they do not repent and walk in the truth of Jesus.
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Gramajo320
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Homeschoolers
I have my reasons for posting only about how many many times I've heard Joel Osteen and Billy Graham preach the true gospel of Jesus Christ and how many people have come forward when the invitation is given to come to accept Jesus Christ. Don't you agree that winning souls to Jesus Christ should be top priority?
Our Heavenly Father knows my reasons and that is quite well understood by Him and the Holy Spirit has assured me of this. I know you don't understand and I know you probably never will but that's okay. Please just remember though that just because someone doesn't agree with either you or some of the others that fact doesn't make me or any one else less of a born again believer in Jesus Christ or less of a christian. That fact needs to be remembered at all times. Just look at bygraces rude insulting words to me - is that christian? I don't think so and I don't believe it to be representative of Jesus Christ or God or of being a christian. I'm not going to get into any controversey with you or anyone else and I don't believe in thinking that all others must believe the way I do. I know what my calling from God is and that's the way it is.
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Gramajo320
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helpforhomeschoolers
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It is impossible to fall away from something unless one is there in the first place. All who fall away will have at one time been those who appeared to be sound in doctrine. The key is that they will not ENDURE sound doctrine. Thus they will FALL AWAY - Leave sound doctrine. You have to have preached sound doctrine to have fallen away from preaching sound doctrine.
Billy Graham once thought the WCC would elect the antichrist and now he speaks highly of them. He once said catholocism was an enemy of Christianity, now he says they have belief no different than he. He once preached that the ONLY way to Heaven and life eternal was Christ and now he is not sure about that and thinks the same way this joel character does.
FALL AWAY - From where you once were.
It does not matter if he preached the gospel 1 million times correctly if he denies Christ is the ONLY way today and he did, and this thread was about just that and not the many many times you have heard him preach correctly. That is why I asked your opinion of this interview. And you declined to give it.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Gramajo320
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Bygrace,
Why did you post to me in such a rude and insulting way? Is that the christian way? I don't think so! I'm quite intelligent thank you and I don't speak in mindless banter.
You will please never ever again post being so rude and insulting to me. There is no call for your doing so whatsoever and it certainly isn't the christian way. You've been less than courteous to me in other postings and I've let it go. This time just stop it. If you don't like what I post you absolutely most assuredly do not have to read it at all.
When I posted I was not addressing the issue of the interview. I was only addressing their preaching of the true gospel of Jesus Christ and their winning souls to Jesus Christ! That's not mindless banter. Perhaps you should re think before you post. Please do not post to me again unless you can do so in a christian and very courteous way. Thank you!
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Gramajo320
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bygrace
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By the way, once again...I have heard him preach! Many many many times.
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bygrace
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Gramajo you have got to be kidding us...or yourself.
HAVE YOU READ THE INTERVIEW???
If not, please stop repeating the same mindless banter.
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Gramajo320
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Joel Osteen has many times over preached the true gospel of Jesus Christ and he has called for many souls to come to repent and accept Jesus Christ. Isn't winning souls to Jesus Christ important? Isn't that what Jesus Christ wants? Isn't that what our Heavenly Father wants also? I just do not understand all of the tearing down against Joel Osteen, Billy Graham, especially when some have admitted they've never heard them preach the true gospel.
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Gramajo320
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BrazilianMommy
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posted
I read the interview and in my opinion, Junior just wanted to be like Daddy.
quote:
KING: Why are you a preacher?
OSTEEN: You know, I never was for 17 years. I worked with my dad there at the church. He tried to get me to minister. I didn't have it in me. I worked behind the scenes. I loved doing production and things. But when my father died, I just knew -- I don't know how to explain it, it sounds kind of odd, but I just knew down to here I was supposed to step up to the plate and pastor the church. And it was odd because I had never preached before. But I just knew I was supposed to do it.
KING: Did it come easily?
OSTEEN: It did. It came -- it came somewhat easily. I had to study. I was nervous. Still get nervous. But it did. I believe God gives you the grace to do what you need to do. And the great thing about it is the people were so loyal to my father. They wanted one of his sons to take over. And daddy had never really necessarily raised anybody up under him.
quote:
KING: So you didn't go to seminary?
OSTEEN: No, sir, I didn't.
KING: They can just make you a minister?
OSTEEN: You can, you can.
KING: That's kind of an easy way in.
OSTEEN: Yeah, but I think it happens more than you think. But I didn't go to seminary. I have a lot of great friends that did. But I didn't. But I did study 17 years under my dad. You know ...
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Jesus loves you
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bygrace
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Amen
I don't understand why christians cannot see it.
I mean, HE DENIED that JESUS was THE ONLY way!
HFHS,
I really don't think they read the interview.
Or don't want to admit that they may have been wrong, mislead, or whatever.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Thank you Thunder. As I said, I do not know this man, I have never heard him preach, but I just heard him deny Jesus is the ONLY way on national TV and that should break all our hearts. How can we rightly pray for this man, how can we love this man with the love of Christ if we condone these things? We then have become the pharisee that do not enter in and keep others from entering also.
How can we be the body and stand and pray for this man if we are praising and defending his apostasy. And how can we listen to a preacher say I dont know if Christ is the only way and not call it apostasy?
My God this a soul!!!!
It is heartbreaking to see people falling away from the faith that was once given to the Apostles. My God! My God! How can we encourage this; it should break our hearts!!!!
A few months ago, I go an email from someone I love very much who was heartbroken and needed prayer because someone he has labored in the Gospel with told him that he no longer believes the Gospel. We of course knew immediately to stand in the gap for this person; but if we wont face their apsotasy ourselves then we become part of the problem and if we are part of the problem, we cant be standing in the gap for anyone. Lot was spared because Abraham prayed!!!
Recently, I lost 2 very very dear friends to the apostasy. This is tragic. And the falling away is going to be great....like nothing we have known.
Father God open our eyes that we can be about your business.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Thunderz7
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posted
I listened to John Osteen until he died, I really liked his teaching and agreed with most (not all) his theology.
I listened to Joel for a while, and stll do from time to time, but don't enjoy it near as much.
Normally I would stay out of this.
But the thing I see happening is, some aren't looking at what the thread is about.
This is not really about who likes Joel, and who does not.
This is not about whether or not Joel preaches the true Gospel.
This is about what he had to say in a TV interview, and the answers he gave to questions there:
Did his answers line up with what he preaches?
Did his answers line up with the WORD?
I like Joel just fine, though I liked his dad much better.
I too have heard him preach true Gospel.
I have also heard a lot of "don't make waves", in his preaching.
The true Gospel will make waves so he will have to take a side; there won't be any fence-riders;
he will fall to one side or the other.
As for the Larry King interview;
I am very sad that Joel didn't have the backbone to speak the WORD.
Joel's answers to the tough questions did not line up with the WORD.
I hope these answers are not the core of his preaching.
I really don't think his dad would have been so two faced.
So it seems he fell from the fence to the wrong side.
I will still listen, from time to time, to see if things change with him;
I pray they change.
T7
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Personally, I like them both. But I am saddened to see them shy away from preaching the whole truth of God's Word. The world is in need of Jesus not someone who says: "it doesn't matter what we believe all roads lead to heaven".
Why is it important for a Christian to talk about these things? Because we need to be warn that no matter how much we love our fav Preacher, we must judge his preaching to the Word of God. Any of us can mis-speak. But, if we rightly judge the preaching by the Word of God we will not go wrong.
When I hear a Preacher who says test what a say by God's Word, I feel safer.
I also feel a Preacher is in trouble when he spends 20 minutes preaching a "feel good sermon" and 1 minute talking salvation. When a Preacher goes on T.V. and refuses to discuss what the Bible says about abortion, about Jesus being the only way to Heaven, the he or she has sold out.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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Gramajo320
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posted
I have heard Joel Osteen preach the whole true gospel of Jesus Christ many times and so does Billy Graham and they have and do win many souls to Jesus Christ.
I can only agree to disagree with whoever does not like Joel Osteen and Billy Graham. That is up to each individual as to who they like or don't like. However just because I or anyone else does not agree with whoever doesn't like Joel Osteen or Billy Graham does not make us any less of a born again believer in Jesus Christ and a christian.
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Gramajo320
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
Preachers have preached for years about how the Church as a whole will grow cold and reject the truth of God's Word in the last days. Sadly, Preachers have also joined this group. Preachers who do not want to Preach the WHOLE TRUTH of the GOSPEL. Of course, it makes everyone feel great when you don't preach about sin, nor preach that Jesus is the only way to Heaven. Too many people find these truths offensive. But, I believe that these Preachers will have to answer to God for this. These men and women will have the blood of sinners on their hands. They are giving them a false security that their souls are in no danger, when the Bible teaches a different TRUTH.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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bygrace
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![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif) You are right Yahsway,
I too, Have listened to Joel's Messages...Many.
I was a close follower of his for a while.
I too, through the Holy Spirit, had to measure his teachings with God's word. I think too many
are not reading the Bible on thier own, and only listening to the T.V. preachers.
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bygrace
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I know gramajo....
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yahsway
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posted
I have heard Joel Olsteen preach a lot. I listen to him and others even though my husband becomes somewhat irrate with me for doing so.
But hey, we need to know what they are saying when it comes to the word of God don't we? Im just listening to what they (mostly tv preachers) are preaching and teaching.And a lot of it aint biblical. I have even read their books, and some of them are way off the mark as well.
I like what John Wesley said. You first must make people aware that they are sinners,Using the 10 commandments as the guide and then tell them there is Judgement coming, but there is a way of escape, because of the Love and mercy of God and thru His grace.
When I watched Joels interview on Larry King it did not suprise me one bit. I mean lets face it and be real, who really wants to look at themselves and be told thru Gods word that we are sinners? Most of the world would find this very offensive. Most of us would rather have a feel good message. Thats only human nature. Most people would rather be told to find the Champion in themselves than to find a Savior to save them from themselves.Most of us would rather find the good in people than to say "hey brother/sister you have a problem and its called sin. Let me tell you the solution to the problem, Jesus.
Joel has a wonderful opportunity to do just that. Sadly, out of his own mouth, he says he does not use the word "sinners". Need I say more?
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Gramajo320
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posted
Bygrace,
I posted to His Grace as anyone can see when they read it.
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Gramajo320
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bygrace
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Gramajo writes:
Now this is all I'm going to post in this particular thread.
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Gramajo320
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Gramajo320
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posted
His Grace,
I really enjoy bantering with you and also I'm in complete agreement with your postings. I've listened to and really enjoyed hearing Joel Osteen preach whereas some others have never heard him preach at all. I really enjoy your postings and I always read them so I look forward very much to reading your postings again. God bless you.
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Gramajo320
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bygrace
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"Before I can preach love, mercy, and grace, I must preach sin, law, and judgment."
-John Wesley
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
It is a very sad day and I am sure the spirit does grieve when having a TV show makes one anointed, even if that one will not even say that on public TV that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven or even if that one calls Jesus a born again human being who's sacrifice was insufficient that he had to be tortured by demons in hell, or even if that one is on who says that she is living her reward now as she points to the material wealth that surrounds her and refuses to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's!
1 Corinthians 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
But the one who speaks to contend for the faith and preaches HIS word and repentance and condemns the works of the devil and is the light and salt that we are supposed to be....light shinning truth in the darkness and salt preserving the truth of his word are not considered the anointed.
It is a sad sad day when men will defend men of renown at the expense of the word of God and the men that defend Christ!
That is a very sad statement indeed, and it is those who make that statement that do indeed persecute Christ as they persecute his church.
2 Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
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