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Topic: Osteen interview with Larry King
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
We must always choose Jesus first, no matter how much we may love someone here on earth.
Don't worry folks, Jesus is always #1 in my life -I couldn't survive without him.
Thanks again for your comments. Group hug to all.
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Just one more thought, I told my husband once that although I loved him very much I would not go to hell for him. That no person was worth going to hell for. Life is a long life even today if we live 100 years, hell is for eternity.
No one is worth going to hell for.
bettt
My husband and I just went through something similar with a friend (Jewish) of 17 years. In the past several months, she has become increasingly hostile towards Christianity. The devil is in full attack mode.
One night she basically made it clear that she was drawing the line - Jesus or her. Of course she loses that contest. It is heartbreaking, but I am coming to the realization that it is time to "shake the dust". Not to stop praying of course, but our words to her fall on deaf and hostile ears.
We must always choose Jesus first, no matter how much we may love someone here on earth.
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Gramajo320
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posted
His Grace,
The Lord will always keep you under his wing and He will always bless you for your very strong faith and your continuing faith in following Him. God bless you!
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Gramajo320
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hardcore
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posted
Hi HisGrace ...
I would also like to add a note of encouragement as well. I am in agreement with what some of the others are saying. Not knowing all of the specifics to your situation though, I suppose it could be the "easier said than done" scenario.
Texas Grandma is right. It can take a long to find the right church home, even when you're making the effort. My husband and I have been in that process ever since we moved, although I will admit sometimes we try harder than others. We have become discouraged by the lack of solid preaching in the pulpit. No church is perfect, but good bible preaching is a must!
Anyway, I will pray that the Lord will lead you to a good bible believing church and for you to have the courage and ability to attend.
I have a long list of people to pray for concerning their salvation. None of my family are saved. I will add your husband to the list.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
Just one more thought, I told my husband once that although I loved him very much I would not go to hell for him. That no person was worth going to hell for. Life is a long life even today if we live 100 years, hell is for eternity.
No one is worth going to hell for.
bettt
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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HisGrace
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posted
Thanks Laurie ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
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LaurieFL
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posted
Just to add support to what Miss betty ahs said and to give you encouragement His Grace, I will add my input. My husband is also not saved. He knows that my relationship with God and my walk with Christ are of utmost importance to me and that my involvement with a church is necessary. He enjoys the time he gets to himself on Sunday mornings, frankly. I get the feeding from the word that I need, the fellowship with Christian brothers and sisters, and we get lots of prayer from the church for my husband, which I think means a lot!
We also get invited to dinner get-togethers and picnics, which my husband will come to, which puts him around other Christians, especially men, in a non-threatening environment. Knowing that several of these Christian men carry a special burden in their heart for my husband is so encouraging to me.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
Amen yes, Betty. Your testimony shows that the scripture is true.
1 Peter 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
quote:
AV-conversation 13; 13
1) manner of life, conduct, behaviour, deportment
You took care of your part and God took care of HIS. ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
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SoftTouch
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
I do understand. I went to Church for 20 years with my children without my husband. He used to make fun of me and say I should just pitch a tent on the Church lawn because I went 3 times a week to Church. God blessed me for attending Church without my husband. Now my husband is saved and takes me, good thing cause I cannot drive anymore due to health issues.
What a Wonderful Testimony! PRAISE GOD!!!!!
I pray these words will be taken to heart and bear Good fruit! In Jesus Precious Name, Amen
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I do understand. I went to Church for 20 years with my children without my husband. He used to make fun of me and say I should just pitch a tent on the Church lawn because I went 3 times a week to Church. God blessed me for attending Church without my husband. Now my husband is saved and takes me, good thing cause I cannot drive anymore due to health issues. I encourage you to find a Church home inspite of your husband. Your husband is cheating of you of a faith based Church home. Who knows if your husband ses you being faithful to God's house, he may take your faith more seriously. just a thought.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
His Grace,
It worries me that you do not have a Church home. While it is nice to listen to Preachers, there is nothing that takes the place of a Church home. In Sunday School we learn disclipleship.
Supportinig your Church finacially and through attendance is not only good for you, but it is important for a Christian's personal growth.
Thanks for your concern, TG, but my husband is not a Christian and there would be too many hassles if I tried to attend. In spite of that lack of support, the Lord has managed to keep me under his wing.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
His Grace,
It worries me that you do not have a Church home. While it is nice to listen to Preachers, there is nothing that takes the place of a Church home. In Sunday School we learn disclipleship.
Supportinig your Church finacially and through attendance is not only good for you, but it is important for a Christian's personal growth.
I know it is hard to find a Church. It took us a year of visiting, but don't give up. God has a place for you.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carmela:
Thank you Gramajo.
Just for the record, I don't disagree with listening to ministers either. Some people need the help from a teacher to learn God's word at a deeper level. However, I'm in bible school, although out for the summer, so I am at an advantage. Not to mention I only get one channel on TV lol
Yes, we all need each other to learn about God. The Lord gives different insight and revelation to each of us, and he loves it when we share our wisdom with others. There is always fresh and new kowledge to learn from the Bible.
That is why we have churches, that is why we have Bible schools, and yes that is why we have preachers on TV. I don't have a church home, so I have learnt a wealth of knowledge from these Bible scholars.
I have cable so I feel so blessed to have many multiple choices to be spiritually fed and quenched by education of the Word through good Christian programming.
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Carmela
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posted
Thank you Gramajo.
Just for the record, I don't disagree with listening to ministers either. Some people need the help from a teacher to learn God's word at a deeper level. However, I'm in bible school, although out for the summer, so I am at an advantage. Not to mention I only get one channel on TV lol
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www.pinecrest.org
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Gramajo320
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posted
Carmela,
I truly enjoy your postings and you do have a lot of insight, wisdom, and knowledge. God bless you.
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Gramajo320
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
quote:
I don't really spend my time listening to different people preach either because I find all I need in God's word and through prayer.
Amen and Amen!
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Carmela
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posted
oh ok. Well, I have never heard that term used and I don't agree with it. However, I don't really spend my time listening to different people preach either because I find all I need in God's word and through prayer.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
I was responding to andyman's comment in which he used the term. The concept of faith being a force is a very well known or common teaching among what some people call the Word of Faith Movement. It is a concept that was taught by Kenyon; Kennneth Copeland teaches that faith is a force. This concept is further expounded upon by others today who are teaching the practices of creative visualization.
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Gramajo320
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The Star Wars movies is the only time I have heard the word "force" being used when referring to good.
However I've never heard anyone at all call faith a "force."
Whenever any one has said the word faith, they say it exactly like it is and that is faith.
God certainly does speak to us through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit speaks to us in a very quiet voice and if we are being quiet enough ourselves and listen then we hear what the Holy Spirit is saying to us and we know what it is the Holy Spirit is directing us to do. Then we obey.
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Gramajo320
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Carmela
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We are not calling faith a force, that is a word that you guys are putting on it. No where have I ever heard anyone call or believe faith to be a force until now in your writings.
However, I wonder if maybe faith isn't being taken as seriously at the same time. I think we should all do a study on faith, from the bible, not our wording added.
One thing I have heard Joyce Meyers and others preach is that we are to ALWAYS, whether at church or listening to speakers, we are to go home and read God's words and pray about the message. I see lots of people running these speakers down, but I wonder how many have spent hours with the bible and asking God to show them the truth in prayer.
I also keep hearing that maybe we are not reading the word for ourselves. I have spent the last 2 years of my life seeking God and studying the bible. I have spent more time in prayer that I ever use to. Fasting also. My teachers in bible school don't just tell us their opinions. They give us books of the bible to teach to the class and we have to read that book or verses and pray about them and then we all take turns teaching the class what God has revealed to us. I go to church every morning, classes for several hours, then I come home and read the word and pray some more. I have spent hours each day studying and praying to learn the truth from God, not man.
Many believe you can't really hear from God. I don't believe this because I have heard from God, I have experienced God in new ways. SO, when someone tries to take something that God himself has taught me, I just push it aside. I no longer get upset over posts or if anyone disagrees with me because I don't take offense to people anymore.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
I think that Andy is pretty accurate in what he says about this teaching that is so popular today; faith is not a force. Not according to the scripture.
Faith is the substance of things hoped for; the evidence of things not seen.
If faith is a force then it has power of its own; but faith is not a force; faith is a conviction of belief in the power of the thing or one that faith is placed in.
We can have faith in our own abilities.
We can have faith in the creation
We can have faith in another being
We can have faith in God.
Faith has no power on its own to do anyting and thus it is not a force. Faith must be placed in something to even be faith. The power exisits in what faith is placed in and not in faith itself.
You will note that the AntiChrist will honor the god of forces:
Daniel 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
Faith is not a force.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Carmela
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posted
I think that what is being said by those ministries is being misinterpreted. Or at least from my perspective and what I see. It's easy to make a judgment on something without knowing the underlying reason for what they are saying.
As I said before, I don't agree with thinking it into existence. However, I do believe that we need to have positive thinking always.
quote:
Honestly. Their gospel is about substituting Yahweh into a genie in a bottle who grants all of our temporal wishes if we only know the right formula and possess the right amount of faith.
I believe Andy is totally twisting their message and adding to the message spoken. No where did I hear them say anything like this.
quote:
They actually worship faith since they believe that faith is a force, words are the container of the force and what you speak is what will be.
Again, no where have heard that faith is a force. However, the bible says if we don't have enough faith, then we are not getting everything we could have. O ye of little faith?
Faith has made people whole(Matt. 9:2&22), calmed a storm (Matt.8:26), Jesus spoke many times of having little faith, We only need faith the size of a mustard seed(Matt.17:20), so how can you say people are calling it a force? Matt, Mark and Luke all spoke of faith. And it's all over the N.T.
Jesus himself said: believing, ye shall receive.
It isn't a matter of worshipping faith or even calling it a force, WHICH WE DO NOT, it's believing by faith.
quote:
There are some who actually say that if you say that you laughed so hard you almost died, you may actually die! This is a damnable heresy that decreases the majesty, wonder, and power of Yahweh, elevates man, and distorts the purpose for salvation.
Again, twisted. We need to watch our words, the tongue is a powerful weapon. Ask Jesus, or read it in James. We are not to speak ANY words in vein. Our tongue should be harnessed. This is what I believe is being said by the speakers mentioned in your earlier post.
I would like to add my HEEEELLLOOOOO here. Jesus spoke of verbal curses many times. All the people had to do was speak a curse and it was done. Jesus said we have the power to bring forth life or death, blessings or curses with our tongue. Does this mean HE is lying to us? I hope you are not going to tell me that Jesus didn't speak the truth. What about when Jesus told us to do good to them that curse us? He didn't say hurt us, run us down...he said "CURSE".(Matt. 5:44)
Luke 6:28
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
(KJV)
As softtouch said, we need to make sure we are praying in God's will. If I start asking for God to give me all kinds of material items so I can be rich, He may bless me with them as He did Job and others, but I don't think He will. Why? Because Job and the others had a pure motive in their hearts and they used their fortune wisely. Will we? Some will and they will be blessed. Others only want selfish gain, and I don't beleive they will get the same outcome from their prayers. Solomon asked for wisdom which pleased God, so God gave Solomon more than he could have ever imagined in return for having a pure desire in his heart. This is what I have heard some of the preachers listed speaking, not what is laid before me on this post.
If someone loses faith in God because they don't get what they are asking, then it means they didn't have the right motives in their heart. It also could mean that they are basically saying "God, give me what I want and I will follow you" Well, God knows the true motive of their hearts, and this isn't the heart of a true Christian.
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SoftTouch
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AMEN and AMEN Andyman! It's good to see another who can see this heresy for what it is!
This whole idea of faith being a "force" What was it Daniel said of the Anti-Christ? "He will honor a god of "Forces" (KJV).
quote:
Daniel 11:38
But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
HELLO??? Why can't folks see this?
This idea of 'speaking things into being' or 'you have what you say;' this is what the Bible calls Witchcraft! No Where in the Bible does it tell the Believer to "CLAIM" what they want... it says to ASK in Jesus Name (ASK being the operative word here) and then it MUST BE In Accordance with God's Will! They (the WOF movement) can Twist Scripture all they want to support the False WOF Doctrine, but that won't make it line up with God's Word.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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andyman
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Hello Andyman, quote:
After reading this all....
This makes me Embarrassed. I am humiliated to be called a Christian. This makes me want to seriousely puke.
Think how it must make Yahweh feel.
Honestly. Their gospel is about substituting Yahweh into a genie in a bottle who grants all of our temporal wishes if we only know the right formula and possess the right amount of faith. They actually worship faith since they believe that faith is a force, words are the container of the force and what you speak is what will be. There are some who actually say that if you say that you laughed so hard you almost died, you may actually die! This is a damnable heresy that decreases the majesty, wonder, and power of Yahweh, elevates man, and distorts the purpose for salvation. These people create slaves in that people begin to doubt their salvation if things do not come to pass that they pray for, which makes sense in this view since all you need to get whatever you want (a spouse, a car, physical, emotional or marital healing, etc.) is the right amount of faith. It is a sad and pathetic ploy by those who take advantage of the weak. Not only that but its a terrible report to hear our leaders confusing the essential basic church docrines, like salvation and sin, which is out of Osteen's theology in exchange for wealth and power.
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IN 2000, WE AMERICANS spent 94 Billion Dollars lavishly on our home churches. However, the average North American Christian gives only 50 CENTS a week to global missions.
Gospel for Asia - Fire on the Altar
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Carmela
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posted
TY bygrace for replying to me. I don't have intention on leaving and I don't get upset or discouraged by posts because I know we all do the best we can on following after God according to what we know. Plus like you said, I learn a lot when people disagree and I enjoy that. I like being stretched to the limit so that I don't end up getting comfortable with what I know and never growing any more. We need growth to become a better Christian and more knowledgeable.
I guess I asked the question because I was wondering if being born again means the same thing to everyone.
Oh, and really enjoy becauseHElives. If he just sat back and agreed with everything I type, then I wouldn't learn other views and sometimes we need to take the views of others before God and see if what we believe is correct or if we are missing something along the way. I don't know his beliefs, but they seem similar to the Jehovah Witness beliefs so far so I want to learn more. Of course I'm not labeling him either. ![[Wink]](wink.gif) That would be a mistake since labels to me, should never be placed on people. Plus, he seems like a man with much knowledge and that is good.
Again thanks so much. I enjoyed reading what you have learned from others.
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Carmela
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I am a bit confused here. Some of the names Andyman listed I have heard preach. I don't hear any liberal views coming from them. In fact, I heard Joyce Meyers's on the radio one day and I was convicted of something so I am sure others are also.
When I signed up for this site, I was asked if I was born again. I am not being sarcastic here, but I am wondering what born again means to some of you. I ask because I see people put yes yet our views seem to be so different sometimes.
This is a genuine question. I am wondering if we all agree, nothing more.
Thanks.
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becauseHElives
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Hello Andyman, quote:
After reading this all....
This makes me Embarrassed. I am humiliated to be called a Christian. This makes me want to seriousely puke.
Think how it must make Yahweh feel.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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andyman
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After reading this all....
This makes me Embarrassed. I am humiliated to be called a Christian. This makes me want to seriousely puke.
A college drop-out pastor who doesnt believe in sin- got the first church in America that will easily boost to 90,000-100,000 people on any given weekend.... Has the biggest job and the highest honor... Not to get up behind a pulpit to preach, but preach to millions upon millions of folks on secular networks and a worldwide potential. I know he loves the Lord and that good- but i expect alot more out of him which im strongly disappointed of. Leading a generation of Gods people and is to spineless to speak up on the 40 million abortions that took place since roe vs. wade desicion.
Osteen, Hagin, Hinn, Bonnke, Hickey, Parsley, Crouches, Copeland, Dollar, Duplantis, Meyers, Tilton, and many, many more--- away with them all for teaching the damnable hersey of Word of Faith and having such liberal doctrines.
Gods Justice wont sleep forever while purposely neglecting to preach the blood of Jesus and the cross. Gods warmth of love and blessing will soon fade. A bitter season of cold winter lies ahead. Gods justice, unlike what this generation has ever seen before will be mighty indeed. Justice will not sleep forever.
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IN 2000, WE AMERICANS spent 94 Billion Dollars lavishly on our home churches. However, the average North American Christian gives only 50 CENTS a week to global missions.
Gospel for Asia - Fire on the Altar
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by Carmela:
The religious leaders had seen the power of God working. They saw but choose to turn their head and ignore it. That is why Jesus spoke to them as He did.. They didn't deny the miracles, they just said they could no longer speak in Jesus Name. The couldn't give God the glory. I had to teach on this passage and when I prayed about it, God showed me that where they made their mistake was when they started talking to each other about it. Then, one person speaks negative against it and it plaques the minds of all others because it's always the negative words that we are drawn to. This is why Jesus spoke to them so harshly.
This is what concerns me about the endless websites that we see against a lot of these preachers. Authors interpret their words according to what they already have been pre-dispositioned to believe.
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Carmela
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The religious leaders had seen the power of God working. They saw but choose to turn their head and ignore it. That is why Jesus spoke to them as He did. Darn, I can't remember the scripture I was reading in school when God showed me that the religious leaders saw the miracles that Paul was doing, yet they got together and ended up speaking against it. They didn't deny the miracles, they just said they could no longer speak in Jesus Name. The couldn't give God the glory. I had to teach on this passage and when I prayed about it, God showed me that where they made their mistake was when they started talking to each other about it. Then, one person speaks negative against it and it plaques the minds of all others because it's always the negative words that we are drawn to. This is why Jesus spoke to them so harshly.
John was speaking a basic message to all...repent and be baptized. That is an extemely important message we need to send to others, but we can do it without pointing out someone's sins to them and saying you are a sinner. Of course we all need to know this, but I feel before we start pointing a finger at someone we should first show love and compassion and then out of the love we have for them start teaching them the rest. I'm not saying wait months, just spend time with a person a few times and show you care and they will receive the words "you are a sinner" much better then if we come across as if we are judging them.
quote:
Carmela, I believe we are in the days just before the return of Yeshua. It is time to get people serious bout their relationship with Yahweh. Satan has lulled the Church to sleep. There are the watchmen on the wall, they will cry aloud and warn the people.
I definitely agree with you here. I'm just saying we need to first show a person love and at the same time we can be discipling them. If someone came to me and said you are a sinner repent, I would run. First, someone has to gain my trust before I would listen to a word as harsh as that can seem if not said in the right context. Especially in a forum where no one knows you and besides that, we can't hear your voice or see your body language which I bet would be portraying love. In a forum, it doesn't show and the words take on the voice of the reader....I mean how we read it is how the words come across.
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Carmela, I oppose easy believism with every breath in my being.
Yeshua said many in that day will say Lord, Lord. These are Church members; many are here on this board. I for one do not want their blood on my hand. (Read Ezekiel chapter 33)
I have a feeling that we may agree in a lot of ways. Maybe I'm misinterpreting your words also. I definitely think the word of repenting needs to be made clear. I definitely think people need to know the truth. It's how the word in brought forth that makes a difference.
quote:
How much of any man/woman does Yahweh get when He purchases that individual?
He should have all of us. However, that comes as we continue to grow. We are not immediately able to understand it all. As a baby we are taught to crawl and walk and everything we do is taught. It's the same with Christianity. The more a person reads God's word and runs to Him in prayer with every question we have and learns to hear His voice, the more and the quicker we mature.
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The Churches in America are preaching Yeshua came to make you happy, make you prosperous, healthy, and make you a better person.
I couldn't agree more. The church is falling short. Why is that? Some are because they try to give the "feel good" message which is really wrong. However who is the church? You are the church and I am the church. Why is the church failing in many ways? I feel it's because we sit in our seats each week hear a message and go home to continue our own lives. We are not doing our part. Many feel it's up to the Pastor, but how can he reach 99 or 200 people or even 50 people each week? He can't and if he tried he would be burned out. His job is the preach the CORRECT message of God, our job as the body is to start taking a stand and doing our part. If we are not reaching out to even one person each week, we are not doing our part. I am in bible school and surrounded by Christians but not a week goes by when I don't reach out to my neighbor that is a Pagan. It's my job. As the song says, if we are the body, why aren't His hands reaching....something like that.
Did you go through the OT and see that even though God's people were in the wilderness longer than they needed to be God never turned His back on them, never stopped loving them, He kept calling them back. And read the books Paul wrote. In his letters he started by saying I know....I have seen or heard....and then he talks about their good points. What they do right. Then, he encourages them to not do the things that they are doing wrong. He showed his love and compassion and he made the people feel good, then he told them where they needed improvement.
[QUOTERom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Yeshua did not dye so we could get out of going to Hell.
Yeshua dyed so that His Father would be glorified.
The only reson men and women are born again, is that Yahweh would be glorified.] [/QUOTE]
I agree totally. The end times are near and we need to be fervent in drawing people to Him. However, there is a right way and a wrong way. I choose Paul's ways. I only wish I could speak as beautifully as Paul did.
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becauseHElives
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"Before I can preach love, mercy, and grace, I must preach sin, law, and judgment."
-John Wesley
Carmela,
How did Yeshua talk to the religious crowd?
What was the message of John the Baptist to everyone?
How did John the Baptist talk to the religious crowd?
Carmela, I believe we are in the days just before the return of Yeshua. It is time to get people serious bout their relationship with Yahweh. Satan has lulled the Church to sleep. There are the watchmen on the wall, they will cry aloud and warn the people.
Carmela, I oppose easy believism with every breath in my being.
Yeshua said many in that day will say Lord, Lord. These are Church members; many are here on this board. I for one do not want their blood on my hand. (Read Ezekiel chapter 33)
How much of any man/woman does Yahweh get when He purchases that individual?
Does Yahweh get 50% maybe Yahweh only get 10% or maybe 90%?
You say that silly, Yahweh get 100%.
That is right, Yahweh said “Mar 8:35 For whosoeverwill save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. “
Yeshua did not come to share His Life mixed with our miserable life.
Yeshua came to Live His Life through us.
But this is not the message being preached in 90% of Churches in America.
The Churches in America are preaching Yeshua came to make you happy, make you prosperous, healthy, and make you a better person.
That is not the message of Yeshua, not the message of Paul, John, Mark, Luke, Timothy or any other writer under the power of the Holy Spirit.
The Gospel is the messages of the Kingdom, that Yahweh desires sons and daughters, but the catch is that they all must be conformed to the image of His Son “Yeshua”. No other image will do. There will be no half breeds in Yahweh’s Kingdom.
Only those dying to self daily, have their mind washed with the Word of Yahweh daily will enter, only those offering their bodies a living sacrifice daily, which is our reasonable service will enter. Only those taking up their cross daily will be part of that Kingdom.
The Apostle Paul died pressing forward toward the mark the high calling “being transformed into the image of Yeshua.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Yeshua did not dye so we could get out of going to Hell.
Yeshua dyed so that His Father would be glorified.
The only reson men and women are born again, is that Yahweh would be glorified.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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wparr
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Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
Acts 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.
I went to Lakewood (Osteen's Church) and went to a class on Baptisum of the Holy Spirit.
They teach (and pressure you) that it is like a new language where you have to LEARN it one word at a time.
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Carmela
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BecauseHelives, I do agree with some of what you are saying. Most of it actually.
However, as a believer I can read your words and take it to heart knowing it's God's word. I can look at the words and see the warning and know that you speak those words because you care about the unsaved people.
However, I don't believe that is how we are to preach to new believers. Not even close. Jesus first showed love and compassion. He didn't only tell people you are a sinner repent, he spent time loving and caring for them. Feeding them even.
I don't believe that scaring someone to death is the way to draw people to Jesus. I also don't agree with "feel good" messages. However, even that message can do good. If people are saved and go to local churches after, they will be discipled there. If the church is doing their part anyway. That is your job and mine. To pray and ask God each week...who do you want me to reach out to today. It could be by inviting them over for Sunday dinner and getting to know them. Then, keep spending time with that person and calling them. Witness God's love first by your words and your actions, then teach them the deep things of the bible.
We need to win a person's trust and not just scare the living daylights out of them. I don't know of any instance in the bible where Jesus did that. He even healed people and sent them on their way without preaching to them. He knew they would desire to know more of who He was after that. He knew they would be likely to seek after Him.
If Joel is planting seeds, it may or may not be happening the right way. However our job is to be the ones that water the seeds after they leave the meetings, or when new people show up in church.
It's easy to sit in a Christian forum and preach. The harder part comes when we are to put our words into action and actually find people and show them the "real" JESUS!
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becauseHElives
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Have you received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?
There is only one evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost given in Scripture.
And they spoke with tongues as the Spirit gave utterance.
People in the 21st century are not into tarrying until endued with power, we want what we want and we want it NOW !!!!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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becauseHElives
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Remember the “Trojan Horse”?
The Trojan Horse has now been pulled into the Church.
America first, and now America is bringing it around the world.
Satan saw that he could achieve greater success by sending his forces into the Church than by shedding the blood of the Faithful.
Satan sent in the easy believism, the cost nothing Gospel.
The charismatic renewal teaching.
Teach people to speak in tongues.
Teach people how to prophesy.
Every thing is about teaching. The Church is full of people that give mental accent to Jesus is Lord.
What you say with your mouth means nothing. Hear me!
What you say with your mouth means nothing!!!!
What matters is what your life says.
2Co 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
Is your light hid under a bushel?
Are you a new cruse for Yahweh to put the salt in.
2Ki 2:20 And he said, Bring me a new cruse, and put salt therein. And they brought it to him.
Why a new cruse?
Why a cruse at all?
Why not just a hand full of salt?
Those 120 in that upper room did not have anyone teach them anything. They waited until they were endued with power. They did not speak about Yahweh God, they spoke for Yahweh God.
The True Gospel is not in word only, not in intellect, but in word and deed.
The Apostle Paul said I come not with enticing word of men’s wisdom but with demonstration…
1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
I need to be taught by no man, I have been given the Holy Ghost to lead me.
When a man/woman is lost, the Holy Ghost brings that man/woman to the Law, the school master, to teach him his transgressions against a Holy God. When the Holy Ghost has truly convicted a person of their sin and a need of a Savior, the Holy Ghost introduces that soul to Jesus and that soul accepts or rejects Jesus gift of Salvation.
Now a war begin in the soul of man, there is now a dual nature struggling for this life.
Then as Jesus is revealed to the heart, the person begins to understand that this same Holy Ghost is how Jesus was able to become the victor over all sin. And that now the Holy Ghost is poured out to empower men/women to live victorious over sin. As men and women walk in the Spirit they gain victory over the flesh.
The only soul that will be saved is the broken heart, the continually broken heart.
Only you can answer that question
Is my heart continually broken, over my sin, my missing the mark?
Is my heart continually broken over the sin of others?
If not read Ezekiel chapter 9 about the ink horn.
See the picture Yahweh is painting.
Repent and ask Yahweh to break your heart that His judgment will not fall upon you.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Scary stuff Drew, very scary stuff. This is like reading Napolean Hill. This is occultic, it is not faith. This is not God. Thank you for posting this excerpt from Osteen's book.
Sometimes I wonder if this is not a future event but is now....
2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
This is indeed what the masses want to hear.
Today, I was driving and talking to God and I was thinking about this very thing with itching ears and how the whole world wants to hear how to have the world's goods and the world's success and I was reminded of this which I have said before:
If God never answered a single prayer from this day forward....if I never had one moment of feeling his blessing in this life from this day forward, If I had to live the rest of this life in squaller and torture and pain, what God has already done for me would be enough that I should seek his face and sing his praises every day from now until the end of time and back again.
But sadly, this is not what people want to hear and it wont sell a million copies and it wont draw a crowd of 30k on Sunday with checkbooks in hand.
Luke 12:21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
If our treasure is here our heart cannot be in heaven.
James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
At the very least, I would say that Osteen is double minded.
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
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Gramajo320
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While there is no agreement on who is or who is not the best ministers, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and what they feel in their hearts. I do have to say though that whenever I've listened to Joel Osteen and also to Billy Graham, I've only heard them preach only the gospel of Jesus Christ.
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Gramajo320
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Caretaker
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Brother Dale it is great to see you and to read your wisdom, faith, and insight. How many are being led astray by "itching ears".
Joel Osteen is poster child in the WOF. From his book,"Your Best Life Now":
http://www.parable.com/parable/item_0446532754.htm&ct=Chapter_Excerpt
Chapter One
Enlarging Your Vision
I heard a story about a man on vacation in Hawaii with his wife. He was a good man who had achieved a modest measure of success, but he was coasting along, thinking that he'd already reached his limits in life. One day, a friend was driving the couple around the island, showing them the sights. They stopped to admire a gorgeous house set high on a hill. The property was replete with beautiful palm trees and lush green gardens in a picturesque, peaceful setting with a panoramic view overlooking the ocean.
As the man gazed at the magnificent home, he commented to his wife and friend, "I can't even imagine living in a place like that."
Right there, something inside him said, Don't worry. You won't. You will never live in a great place like that.
Startled at his own thoughts, he asked himself, What do you mean?
As long as you can't imagine it, as long as you can't see it, then it is not going to happen for you. The man correctly realized that his own thoughts and attitudes were condemning him to mediocrity. He determined then and there to start believing better of himself, and believing better of God.
It's the same way with us. We have to conceive it on the inside before we're ever going to receive it on the outside. If you don't think you can have something good, then you never will. The barrier is in your mind. It's not God's lack of resources or your lack of talent that prevents you from prospering. Your own wrong thinking can keep you from God's best.
Your own wrong thinking can keep you from God's best.
You, too, may have assumed that you've already peaked, that you've reached your limits in life, that you will never be more successful. I'll never achieve significance, do something meaningful, or enjoy the good things in life that I've seen others enjoy.
Sad to say, you are exactly right ... unless you are willing to change your thinking. That's why the first step to living at your full potential is to enlarge your vision. To live your best life now, you must start looking at life through eyes of faith, seeing yourself rising to new levels. See your business taking off. See your marriage restored. See your family prospering. See your dreams coming to pass. You must conceive it and believe it is possible if you ever hope to experience it.
To conceive it, you must have an image on the inside of the life you want to live on the outside. This image has to become a part of you, in your thoughts, your conversation, deep down in your subconscious mind, in your actions, in every part of your being.
Envision Your Success
From the time she was a little girl, Tara Holland dreamed of becoming Miss America. In 1994, she entered the Miss Florida pageant and won the title of first runner-up. She decided to try again the following year. She entered the same contest, and once again, won the prize as first runner-up. Tara was tempted to get down and discouraged, but she didn't do that. She stayed focused on her goal.
She decided she needed to change her environment, so she moved to Kansas, and in 1997, she entered the Miss Kansas pageant and won the title. That same year, she went on to be crowned Miss America. Tara Holland saw her dream come to pass.
In an interview after the pageant, someone asked Tara the secret to her success. She admitted that after she had lost twice in a row at the state-level competitions, she had been tempted to give up, but instead she went out and rented dozens of videos of local pageants, state pageants, Miss Teen, Miss Universe, Miss World-whatever she could find. She rented hundreds of videos of various pageants and watched them over and over again.
As Tara watched each young woman crowned a winner, she pictured herself in that situation. She pictured herself receiving the crown. She pictured herself walking down the runway in victory. Time and time again she envisioned herself winning. Seeing herself as a winner, said Tara, was the key to her success.
Another reporter asked her if she was nervous walking down the runway in front of millions of people watching on television and with the announcer singing the famous Miss America song.
Tara's response was interesting. "No, I wasn't nervous at all," she said. "You see, I had walked down that runway thousands of times before."
Have you ever walked down that runway? Have you ever seen yourself accomplishing your dreams? Do you keep that vision of victory in front of you? Tara Holland knew she would never be a winner until she first saw herself as a winner. She had to reprogram her mind, to rid herself as much as possible of the hurtful memories of losing. She had to replace that vision in her mind of herself as Miss Runner-up. She had to develop a can-do attitude. She saw herself stepping onto the winner's platform. She saw herself walking down that runway in victory. She created an environment of faith and success.
What you keep before your eyes will affect you. You will produce what you're continually seeing in your mind. If you foster an image of defeat and failure, then you're going to live that kind of life. But if you develop an image of victory, success, health, abundance, joy, peace, and happiness, nothing on earth will be able to hold those things from you.
Too many times we get stuck in a rut, thinking we've reached our limits. We don't really stretch our faith; we don't believe for anything bigger. But God wants us to constantly be increasing, to be rising to new heights. He wants to increase you in His wisdom and help you to make better decisions. God wants to increase you financially, by giving you promotions, fresh ideas, and creativity.
The Scripture says that God wants to pour out "His far and beyond favor." God wants this to be the best time of your life. But if you are going to receive this favor, you must enlarge your vision. You can't go around thinking negative, defeated, limiting thoughts. Well, I've gone as far as my education will allow. Or, I've had this sickness for years. I guess it's my lot in life.
To experience this immeasurable favor, you must rid yourself of that small-minded thinking and start expecting God's blessings, start anticipating promotion and supernatural increase. You must conceive it in your heart and mind before you can receive it. In other words, you must make room for increase in your own thinking, then God will bring those things to pass. Until you learn how to enlarge your vision, seeing the future through your eyes of faith, your own wrong thinking will prevent good things from happening in your life. God will not pour fresh, creative ideas and blessings into old attitudes.
You must conceive it in your heart and mind before you can receive it.
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The man inherited his father's ministry, when John Osteen died. He has no theological credentials,(he was an ORU drop-out). He is a great story-teller and motivational speaker, with Madison Avenue charisma. He tells people what they want to hear, not the true Gospel.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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becauseHElives
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posted
Thanks for thinking about me, your prayer are welcomed.
I have been away for 3 weeks praying and studing the Scriptures.
My burden for the Church has only increased.
Judgement begins at the House of Yahweh, The Church.
The cup of Iniquity is Full, time is drawing to an end.
Repent Church, or be left behind
and don't think that if you find yourself in the Tribulation you will not take the mark and be saved, if you can't live for Yahweh now, in the ease of today, you will never make it in the Great Tribulation.
Repent now, cry unto the Lord now, make your life a life of holiness now while there is time.
Without holiness, without seperation from this world no man/woman shall see Yahweh.
REPENT, make straight His paths,
REPENT, He is returning soon
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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helpforhomeschoolers
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It is good to see you Dale; I just told Drew that the Lord had brought you to my thoughts and you have been on my mind prayerfully for about 4 days now and I hoped that all is well with you and your house. Drew must have been praying with me for a word from you because hear you are within less than 48 hours! God is Good! And it is good to see you!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
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posted
Joel Osteen,
Preaches a user friendly Gospel that is sending people to HELL, and the biggest part of the "Church" the tares-goat part is blinded to the fact.
He is about preaching for profit, along with the other TV evangelist.
For goodness sakes, he is charging people to hear him speak. How stupid can people be?
Can't you see Jesus, in Jerusalem, weeping over the city then, telling the disciples to put out the advertisements that he will be speaking at the local auditorium, all seats $ 19.95.
Joel Osteen never mentions sin, repentance, dying to self, taking up your cross and follow me, but that was Jesus’ message.
Jesus promised one thing that the Church of the tares will not hear, those that preach HIS message will be hated by this world. They hated HIM and Jesus said the servant is not above his Master.
You show me anyone that has a large following and I will show you a man that is not preaching the Truth of Jesus. I will show you a self deceived enemy of the cross or worse an outright charlatan.
To answer Linda’s questions
How is one to come to Christianity without doctrine?
Confess Jesus with your mouth and believe with the heart. But unless you have testimony similar to the thief on the cross you will learn the doctrine of Jesus, you will die to self, you will crucify this flesh, you will take up your personal cross and follow Jesus, if you don’t you want be part of The Kingdom of Yahweh, you will die and go to Hell.
Is this a Biblical philosophy for a preacher to take?
Not just this preacher, but any preacher? No, because the Scriptures declare that all Scripture is profitable for doctrine, instruction and reproof in holiness and righteous.
How does this line up with scripture?
Joel Osteen does not line up with Scripture and neither do any of the other TV evangelists that preach the Word of Faith message.
Professing themselves to be wise they become fools.
The foolish virgins will not be part of that glorious Kingdom of Yahweh.
You can fall from Grace, you can sin away your day of Grace.
How shall you escape, if you neglect so great a Salvation?
Work out your own Salvation with fear and trembling.
Study to show yourself approved a workman that need not be ashamed on the Day of Judgment.
Many in that day shall say Lord, Lord, but Jesus will say depart from me you worker of iniquity, I never knew you. But we did many good things in your name they say. Sorry He will say I never knew you.
Jesus is only responsible to forgive the sins we confess. The day you came to Jesus if you truly repented, all your sins were forgiven to that point. But from that point forward there is a continual washing of the Word to the mind, a renewing of relationship daily with Jesus.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
This verse applies to the believer after the new birth
Forgive us our debts as we forgive others
This verse very plainly states if you will not forgive neither will your Heavenly Father forgive you.
The story of the man that was forgiven a great debt by the King and then went and refused to forgive the man that owed him is a picture of a born again believer being thrown into Hell because he refused to forgive a small debt owed to him.
I pray Yahweh break the blinder that Satan has put on the Church, I am not just talking about the tare either.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Carmela
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posted
WOW!! What a hot topic that has become.
I have to agree with hisgrace on this one. I don't believe Jesus preached a message of conviction on people. Look at the woman at the well. He knew her sin yet He never once condemned her. He was loving and kind and showed her His grace, that is what led her to Him.
I agree that it isn't up to us to say to someone...You are a sinner...and expect them to really know and understand God's love through that statement. Paul didn't even use those words when he wrote letters to the cities in sin.
Jesus said let him who is without sin throw the first stone right? Well, I am not in a place to throw the first stone. Are you?
I won't say whether I agree or disagree with Joe since I don't know of his teachings. Remember when Jesus was asked what to do with those that were preaching in His name yet they weren't Christians? I don't remember the exact context, but if I remember right He said God's word was still being preached either way.
I don't think it's our place to shoot down other believers. It's our place to lead people on the right path. Condemnation won't do it. If someone is preaching wrong, it's up to us to pray that God open's his eyes, again it isn't up to us to condemn. That is God's place alone.
We are to judge by the fruits of the spirit though and that is mainly so we don't follow the wrong teachers. If we know God's word, then we won't be led astray. If we pray for someone that appears to be off track a bit, God can and will bring them back.
It isn't in my hands, it's in God's alone and I choose to show love to that person. We all mess up and it's usually love that brings us back on the right track.
I don't know about you but when someone comes to me and condemns me, I only rebel more. When someone comes to me out of love and concern, then my eyes will be opened to see my faults and their love will help me to turn from my sin and move forward in Christ once again.
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www.pinecrest.org
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Gramajo320
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Joel Osteen's letter is wonderful news! I do really enjoy his preaching the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
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Gramajo320
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HisGrace
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God certainly has his ways of keeping us humble.
Prov. 15:33 The fear of the LORD teaches a man wisdom, and humility comes before honor.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Oh, I also have one more thing to say in Osteens defense; I am very pleased to know that he is not fleecing the flock to produce his tv programing this also speaks volumes to me. If his church is supporting this ministry totally then good for them. My prayers will be that he will not use it preach anything that does not line up with scripture, but I commend him that he is not out there pulling money out of other congregations to support this tv ministry.
If he does not need solicit money, then that tells me he is most likely not using what he has been given to feed the devourer.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Deb: I agree that there is much more error in this interview than just the lack of confession of Christ being the only way.
But in Osteens defense, if hw is willing to hear that he did error in this regard, then perhaps he will be willing to see his error in other regard. This is my prayer for sure.
The point that I think that God has so very very clearly made here is that God is not glorified when we refuse to see the error of sound doctrine in our brothers and sisters because if we are unwilling to see the errors and we continue to encourage them in their deceptions, then we have become part of their stumbling. We do not ourselves pray for them as we should and we are not willing to confront them as we should because we have refused to accept that they are in error in the first place.
In this case some people clearly saw that this man did not confess that christ is the only way. They did not say "oh we know Joel and he believes and is a good man." they saw the truth and they were not afraid to say that they saw the truth and some who knew him personally wrote to him to say so. Praise God he did repent!
Here is the bigger problem still; because 30k people have perhaps been taught by him these other very clear doctrinal errors that he has spoken in this interview it is very possible that they themselves do not know that these are errors and the works of the devil. And so we see again the grave, grave danger, of our own failing to recognize and speak against false doctrine no matter who is speaking it.
Paul said esteem no man above that which is written and we must never ever be afraid to say that is not what the scripture says and prove our words by backing up with scripture. This is to contend for the faith and we should be willing to stand before any man that speaks contrary to the word of God and unashamedly and boldly be able to say... that is contrary to scripture. It should not matter if we are speaking of the Pope or Martin Luther or Spurgeon or Nee or Tozier or Copeland or Warren or Meyer or any other man that preaches the Gospel. Neither should we ever be afraid to stand and say to our brother or sister in our own community....that doctrine is in error, so that they as they go out can do the same this is how disciples are made!
I tell you, I am so encouraged by what God has done here that I just might buy his book myself and write to him about some of these other errors.
I am very encouraged by this, and again in Osteen's defense, there have been others who have written to popular tv teachers that have espoused publically doctrinal error who have been met with horrible ugly responses and not repentence as Osteen has done here. That says something to me.
Could his motivation be something else, sure, but that is a heart issue and not for us to judge. God will deal with what God needs to deal with, but I do not see that the point here.
I very much see that on this board, God himself has come forward and said...this is why you must not defend error in doctrine; this is why you must learn the truth as it is written and speak the truth as it is written and without compromise. I think God has spoken here to say that we do not do any favors to anyone when we will defend those who speak contrary to his word and have respect of persons above his written word. That is something that does not bring God glory and it hurts the one who is speaking the error. It is anything but loving and kind.
This man might not have had the opportunity to repent of this sin, if someone were not willing to see it as sin and say so. And someone here might not know that it was sin if someone here had not been willing to see it as sin and say so. And that someone may just be the next person who God is preparing to write the next letter to the next tv preacher that needs to repent.
I do not know what else to say; I am just in awe of God and so thankful that he brought this for us to see; this is exactly why we must stand on sound doctrine and against error period, no matter who speaks it.
God is good! Praise HIM all ye saints. Praise God!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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yahsway
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Member # 3738
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And it shows much character and humility on Joels part. His ears are not dull of hearing the voice of the Lord thru correction, Praise be to God. He could of been prideful or dull of hearing (spiritually I mean) about it but he was not and that speaks volumes to me.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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bygrace
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I am in agreement with you here Linda,
This is what can result from christians helping each other to see their errors, we all will need correction at some time or another from our brethren in Christ.
bygrace
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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I found this article to be very enlightening on Osteen's beginnings and beliefs:
Joel Osteen
I really don't know much about this guy or what he preaches (other then what was said in this interview), so I did a little checking.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
Praise be to God!!!!! Oh, I could dance the jig!!! What a wonderful wonderful fantastic confession!!!!! To God be the Glory. And thank you father God that you raised up children that were willing to not excuse this man's sin and call evil good, but that were willing to go to him and tell him his error that he might repent!
What a fantastic exmaple of exactly how the Body of Christ is supposed to work. This might not have happened if there were not saints who understood the truth and were not willing to compromise it!
God is Good Every Day !!!!!!!
Maybe someone might get his book and check it out and see if there is anything else he needs to hear. How glorious it is to see a man who is willing to say I was wrong and repent.
Thank you Father God for giving us this lesson today of how important it is to stand on your word with out compromise...it is as important to others as it is to us.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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