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Topic: Where Was The Outrage???
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by MySavingGrace:
^^^ but don't Jewish peole also eny Jesus as being the son of God and their saviour too?
I thought that Muslim god was bad but then changed. I also don't think all Muslims feel they must kill others, that it is twisted cults that do it like Al-Qaeda but not all Muslims. The Muslim relgion is supposed to be about peace and love I thought ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Yes, most Jews do deny that Jesus IS the Son of God (and God in the Flesh while he was here on earth). But there are Many Jews (they are usually called Messianic Jews) who Do recognize that Jesus is Indeed their Messiah and part of the Trinity that IS God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit)! As for some muslims being peace loving... perhaps so, but that doesn't change the fact that they worship a False God and deny Jesus. This is why it is So Important for us to try to Reach the Lost with the True Gospel of Jesus Christ... there is No Other Way.
Jesus is the ONLY Way. Any who Deny him will not be Saved.
quote:
1 John 5: 11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
quote:
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Speaking of Jesus:
quote:
Acts 4: 11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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yahsway
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Yes, Jews deny Jesus is the Son of God, but Christians do not deny the God of the Jews.
Christians have the same scriptures (OLd Testament ) as the Jews. We worship the same God as the Jews, even though the Jews do not worship Jesus as Messiah from the New Testament.
But the Old Testament scriptures are the same for both Jews and Christians.
The Koran is not the same. The God of Islam is not the same God of the Jews or the Christians.
Have you ever heard the expression "Judeo Christian? The Old Testament prophets speak of the Messiah. We know Him as Jesus, the Jews believe he is still to come. Jews and Christians worship the same God from the Old Testament.
The Muslims would not do so because they follow the Koran, not the Old or New Testaments.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Muhammad began his relgion in 622 by eliminating the Jews by slaughter and banishment in a city now known as Medina. He and his men went into villages and killed all the men and taking the women prisoner. There is told that he took a 13 year old girl and made her his wife.
Jesus teaches us to turn the other cheek. The Koran "urges adherents to make war on those do believe not until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme".
The Koran teaches "Make war uponthose who believe not.......even if they be People of the Book(that is Christians and Jews) Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion regins supreme.
(from the book Beyond Iraq, the Next Move by
Michael D. Evans.
The Koran is not about peace and love. It is about destroying all those who are not Musliums.
It is a mistake to underestimate the goal of the Muslium people.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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SoftTouch
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Dear MySavingGrace, Please check this out as well:
http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/
There is a lot more info on Islam at the above link. Just click on the above link and it will take you to that website. Below is one part of what’s found on that page:
Don't Muslims worship the same God as Christians?
Many Christians accept the Muslim claim that we both worship the same God. They claim that they call him Allah, while we call him God. It is not unusual to hear Christian leaders make such statements. Bible societies have even gone so far as to use the name Allah in the Bibles they produce for Arab Christians.
The problem with this is two-fold. First, history and archeology show clearly that Allah was worshipped as a pagan moon god long before Mohammed came on the scene. Robert Morey, author of The Islamic Invasion, explains:
"Islam's origins have been traced back by scholars to the ancient fertility religion of the worship of the moon god which was always the dominant religion of Arabia. The moon god was worshipped by praying toward Mecca several times a day, making an annual pilgrimage to the Kabah which was a temple of the moon god, running around the Kabah seven times, caressing an idol of a black stone set in the wall of the Kabah, running between two hills, making animal sacrifices, gathering on Fridays for prayers, giving alms to the poor, etc. These were pagan rites practiced by the Arabs long before Muhammad was born."
"What religion today practices the pagan rites of the moon god? Islam! This explains why the crescent moon is the symbol of Islam. It is placed on top of mosques and minarets and displayed on hats, flags, rugs, amulets and even jewelry. Every time you see the Muslim symbol of a crescent moon, you are seeing the ancient symbol of the moon god."
Second, if you read the Qur'an's description of Allah, and read the Bible's description of God, it becomes obvious you are reading about two different persons. Allah orders his followers to kill those who deny Islam, while God instructs us to love our enemies. Allah had no son while God sent His Son to die for sinful men. Allah is "unknowable" while God seeks a personal relationship with His creation, man.
The spirit behind Islam is an entirely different spirit... a spirit that denies the deity of Jesus Christ. Any Christian who accepts the notion that Allah is God creates an impossible situation. Since the Qur'an contains our only revelation about Allah, they will be forced to look there as their authority. The Qur'an specifically denies the deity of Christ! All Christian witness ends right there.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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yahsway
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MSG, The Old Testament of the Christian Bible is the same Testament as the Jewish Bible. They call it the Tenach, which means the Torah(first 5 books) and the judges and the prophets (the rest of the Old Testament.
The Muslin Koran is nothing like the Old Testament. Its a mixture of Old Test. writings, christian writings and Mohummeds writings. So Jews and Christians do not even read out of the same scriptures as the muslims do.The koran was written many years after Judaism and Christianity was formed.
The Jewish people are still awaiting the Messiah, the Son of God. We as Christians know He came and will return again. The Muslims are not awaiting a Messiah or Savior or Son of God since they claim God has no Son.
Our God gives every man free choice in the matter of who to worship. He is our final judge on salvation. He will be the one to condemn people to hell or heaven.
The Muslims believe that women do not go to heaven but only under certain circumstances. One being that if their husband agrees to call them up to heaven after they are dead, then the woman can enter. They set themselves up as judge to ones salvation.
The muslims believe that when they die, there are 70 virgins awaiting each one of them and 6 little boys if they so prefer that. Does this sound like we have the same God?
The Christian faith comes out of Jewish faith. In other words, our Savior was a Jew and all the first disciples were Jewish. Our Christian faith has Hebrew Roots not Islamic roots.
Islam was started many years after Jesus's ascension.
Christianity came out of Judaism. We both Christians and Jews worship the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
Islam came out of a mixture of Mohummeds teachings, some Old Test and some New Test and the muslim God is the God of Abraham ISHMAEL and Mohummed.
But the promise of salvation does not come thru ISHMAEL, remember scripture says it comes through ISAAC and then Jacob.
Here lies the problem. Some people want to seperate God the Father from God the Son. They are not TWO Gods. Jesus said He spoke nothing of Himself but only spoke what the Father told Him. He praed for all of us to be ONE just as He and the Father are One.
Islam teaches that their God Allah has NO SON. Do you see the difference now in the 2 Gods?
Our God became FLESH and dwealt among us. And Our God became FLESH to come and shed blood for us, to die for us and to save us so we can enter paradise (heaven)
The Islamic God requires you to die for him in order to enter paradise (heaven). And if you happen to be a woman, its not even up to the Islamic god (unless you die a martyre while taking other lives, mainly the infedels)but the husbands of these women have the final say of whether they enter paradise or not. Does this sound like we worship the same god?
Our God tells us to pray for our enemies (ours and His) and to pray for those who persecute us and to forgive them.
Not so with the Islamic god. Their god tells them to kill their enemies, kill the infedels, kill the Jews and the Chrisitians(unless they convert to Islam). See the difference in the 2 gods?
How can Jews, Christians and Muslims all be worshiping the same god? If we were, we would all be in UNITY would we not?
Its really not that confusing if you will just search out what the god of Islam demands from his subjects verses the God of Christians and Jews and what He demands from His subjects.
I think you would see that they are not one in the same God.
The Jewish God is our God because thats where the promise came through. Salvation is of the Jews. The Jews have been blinded to Jesus but only in part and only for a time. This was done by the Father so that Gentiles could enter in to the same promises as was given to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For God so loved the WHOLE world that He gave His only Begotten SON, Jesus. Remember, in Islamic theology, Allah god has NO Son.
And please be careful about believing some of the movies out of Hollywood. They never seem to get it right.Shalom and Yahweh Bless you in your search for the truth. Cindy
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MySavingGrace
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there was a movie called sins of the Father, I think on FX.
but, I htought they worshipped the same God, just didn't view Jesus as the son of God. I also thought Jewish thought the same too. They both respected Jesus and thought him to be a good man but not the son of God or their saviour. Cause, I've asked other Christian friends of mine and they all say its the same one, but everyone here says its not. And, maybe its all my world relgions and civilization classes i'm takin this summer confusing me too (a lot of knowlege to know in a short time and easy to misplace facts)
Do Jewish people view Jesus as the son of God and their saviour? I've read in my civilization text that the Hebrew bible is the Old Testiment. o, then maybe they do worship the same God but different views on Jesus? And, if Jewish people can have that stance and yet worship the same God, why aren't Muslims considered to worship the same God?
I'm not blowin off anybody's answers, just I'm still confused
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yahsway
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MSG, the Muslim icon/symbol is the crescent moon.
Allah is the moon god. The Egyptians did worship Rah the Sun-god.
The Christian God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the Creator of all mankind but He is not Father God to everyone.Unless you are born-again and accept Yeshua/Jesus as savior, then God is not your Father. You would be worshipping another god. Since Muslims do not accept Jesus as Gods Son and as the Savior/Messiah, and as the only Truth, life, and way back to the Father, then they do not worship the same God that we do.
Jesus even mentions where some worshipped their Father the devil.
Jesus said "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father." Our God has a Son who was slain for our sins. The muslim god "has no son" as stated by the Islamic faith. So how could we, Christians and Muslims possibly be worshiping the same God? We Do Not!
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MySavingGrace
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I just watched Kingdom of Heaven, and noticed the Muslim symbol looks like the sun. I was wondering if it is meant to be the Sun God (I've also read the God of the Sun is Satan. I'm thinking of the Sun god due to the Egyptians worshipping the sun god.
So, was that what they used to worship Is that what they still worship now?
I've heard they used to worship a different God from us but now they worship our God.
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yahsway
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Danny458, I understand what you are saying, but Jesus was and is that foundation. The lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
If Mohummed had built his theology around that foundation, namely Jesus, then they would admitt that God has a Son. But they do not.
I have never personally heard a Muslim claim that we Christians or Jews worship the same God they do. However, I have heard many Christians say that we are "sister faiths" and I personally believe thats wrong.
But from the very beginning in Genesis, the bible, God says "let us" go down and make man in our image. So my question to the Muslims is who is "Us?"
But the attributes of the Islamic God is not the same as the Jewish/Christian God. There is the difference. They are not the same. From a historical standpoint, they are not the same.
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danny458
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Is the God of Islam the same as the Christian God? Well... yes and no...
Is the Jewish God the same as the Christian God?
Christians believe the Old Testament and Jewish Law, but also believe that Jesus came with a new covenant. Muslims believe in a similar way. They believe that Mohammed came and built upon the foundation that was laid by the Jewish and Christian revalations from God.
So yes, you could say they are not the same God, do understand that from a historical point and from the Muslim perspective, they are the same...
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yahsway
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Well said BA! ![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif)
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BORN AGAIN
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One reason why there was no outrage among Christians is because the God of the Christians is a God of love. Even while He is the True God, He still allows other "religions" to practise freely in the countries even where the Christians are in the majority.
And the underlying reason must be that the True God wants His people to choose Him with their free will. A Christian, should s/he decide to do so, can leave Christianity and join any other "religion" or no religion.
Not so Islam. In most Islamic countries, people are forbidden to change to Christianity on pain of death. That's why Islam had an outrage, but Christians were not overly disturbed by the toilet Bible use because Christians know that the God of the Bible is a God of love and is a God who only wants people to be His people by their free will.
Hence, no outrage.
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
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LaurieFL
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Yahweh is the only true God and Jesus is the only way to Him. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father except by Me." Thus, no one professing to be Muslim is coming to our God, because they aren't going through Jesus.
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SoftTouch
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From research I did a long time ago (which I no longer have thanks to computer crashes), I discovered that Islam long ago worshipped 'many gods'
When 'mohammed' (sp? - who is NOT a prophet) came on the sceene, he went into the temple where the many gods (idols) were kept and 'choose one' to be the god of Islam. He chose the 'moon god allah.' (hence the cresent moon as the symbol is Islam)
This allah is NOT the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob - Israel. 'allah' is a false god.
Yahweh IS the ONLY God. He is Triune (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) and our Heavenly Father who Created Everything! ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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yahsway
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Good post HisGrace! Kinda makes you wonder why the Catholic church would embrace them as "brothers" in the faith.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
MySavingGrace, I must say that muslims and Christians do NOT worship the same God.
I got this from ApologiticsIndex.com
"God — The Koran asserts that the god of Islam is the God of Christians and Jews (Sura 29:46). Nothing could be farther from the truth.7
The god of Islam, Allah, is most definitely not the God of the Bible. Allah is presented in the Koran as an autocratic ruler who is aloof and arbitrary (Sura 5:40). Allah is unknowable whereas the God of the Bible is knowable (2 Timothy 1:12). Allah is impersonal, unlike the personal God the Scriptures reveal (1 Peter 5:6-7). Allah is unitarian (Sura 4:48) whereas the God of the Bible is trinitarian (2 Corinthians 13:14). Here is what the Koran says about the God of the Bible (Sura 4:171): “Believe in Allah and say not ‘Trinity.’ Cease! It is better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from his transcendent majesty that he should have a son.”
Allah is capricious (Sura 2:284), whereas the true God is trustworthy. And Allah is never anywhere presented as a god of love — which is the essence of the nature of the true God (1 John 4:7-16).
Jesus — The Koran denies point blank that Jesus was the Son of God (Sura 112:2-3). It also denies His atoning sacrifice by claiming that he never died (Sura 4:157). A substitute died for Him on the Cross. Jesus was translated to Heaven, like Enoch, where He will remain until He returns to kill all pigs, destroy all crosses, and convert the world to Islam. Jesus will marry, reign for 40 years and then die and be buried next to Muhammad in Medina.8 Jesus is characterized in the Koran as nothing more than “an apostle of Allah” (Sura 4:171).
Source: The Truth About Islam Dr. David R. Reagan"
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yahsway
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MySavingGrace, I must say that muslims and Christians do NOT worship the same God.
Christianity is worshipping the God of Abraham, ISAAC and JACOB
Islam is worshipping the god of Abraham, ISHMAEL and MOHUMMED.
Some clergy are now calling the two "sister faiths". Pastor John Hagee has a new video and teaching out right now and i watched it yesterday on TBN about this subject the god of Islam and the God of Christianity and believe me we are NOT sister faiths. We do not worshipp the same God.
The Islamic God, Allah, calls for the killing of ALL infidels. Both Jew and Christians and buddist and anyone who does not accept Allah and his prophet Mohummed.
The Christian God calls for us to love our enemies and to DO GOOD to those who persecute us.
Islamic faith says its converts must kill and be killed for Allah god. They sacrafice for their god Allah.
Christian faith says our God/Jesus layed His
life down for us so that we may live. He sacraficed himself for us.
If someone took my bible, tore out pages and flushed them down a toilet then I would pray for them. Yes, its not right, but my bible says for me to learn the word and HIDE it deep in my heart.
It is not Christ-like to take anyones bible(book of faith) and desecrate it. And if the story is true, then yes someone was in error. And maybe that someone was not a Christian. When the palastenians did the same thing at the Church of the Holy Seplucure in Bethlehem, the Christians did not rise up in the streets and start a riot or try to kill them. See the difference?
There is a difference in the god we all worship. The god of Islam and the god of Buddah is NOT the God of our Holy Bible.
Our God says I am that I am, you shall have NO other gods before me,(before my face). My God gives people everywhere free choice/will.
We can either worshipp Him or another. He is the final Judge of our souls when we die.
The god of Islam says you have NO choice/free will. You either worshipp him or die by the sword. That is how Mohummed spread Islam throughout the world, by the sword.
Our God says those who live by the sword will die by the sword. The bible says that Ishmael would become a "wild" man and his hand would be against all peoples and his hand would be against his own brothers.
We can see how this prophecy is true by the many different factions in Islam.
Islam believes that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary but that He is not the Son of God, only a prophet. They say He/Jesus is coming back before Mohummed to tell the whole world that we are wrong about Him being the Messiah and to wait for Mohummed's return. They say Allah god HAS NO SON. See the difference?
The Catholic church has recently added to their Catechism that muslims are now their "brothers" in the faith because they believe in the Virgin Mary. But yet the Catholic church continues to call all Protestants "erring brothers". Wonder why that is?
BornAgain has touched on this somewhere here on the boards about the Islamic faith being the beast and he has a point. My personal belief is that they probably are and the ***** that rides the beast could possibly be a corrupt catholic church. Just my opinon, but Revelations speaks of "beheadings" and we all know thats how a lot of fanatical muslims like to kill their victims.
I know you have said that you are a new Christian and I praise God for you. But I want you to also be aware that as Christians, we DO NOT worship the SAME God as muslims do. This is a lie from the pits of hell to decieve many I think.
Again, I do not condone desecrating anyones books on their faith, that is not Christ-like and we should never be caught up in such things. Shalom
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MySavingGrace
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^^^^ i never knew of bible incident until now! also, i wasnt christian then too so maybe i heard in passing and it didnt affect me.
but either way, bible, qu'ran is horrible to be degraded. (and im not sayin its true or false since there is no actual proof i know of besides word of mouth) Even a relgion I dont agree with like Hinduism, Budhism etc shouldn't be degraded.
the main reason i dislike both is they both praise the same god: our god! If the people from Palestine who tore the bible were Muslim, then they worship the same god who's book they violated. and, if the gaurds in gauntonomo were christian then they are reuining the work for our god.
it makes me so sad theat so much war and death and propaganda etc is religous. I mean, we all praise/worship/love the same god. Our stance on Jesus is different, but all still respected him and all praise our same God! I know God wouldn't want this from either side. For me, its outrage for both since it is going against God to ruin either the bible or the Qu'Ran
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danny458
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Just to clarify... just because newsweek retracted the story, never means it didnt really happen.
And yes, as the previous poster said, if the allegations are true, these are government officials of the US committing the acts. Much different that the situation in Bethlehem.
And where was the outrage? You tell me! We're you marching on the streets in protest when the bible incident happened?
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WhiteEagle
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If the Koran was REALLY flushed down the toilent as a whole book, wouldn't that have caused a massive backup of the whole sewer system?
Where's the proof? Did they have subsequent toilet backups in the prison?
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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MySavingGrace said: quote:
The flushing of their book was done in a prison which was officially governed by our government.
…Those just nasty rumors started. Newsweek can't prove anything.
That one false story costed lives.
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"Newsweek hid behind anonymous sources, which by their own admission do not withstand scrutiny," Whitman said. "Unfortunately, they cannot retract the damage they have done to this nation or those that were viciously attacked by those false allegations."
Read more here...CBS News
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SoftTouch
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Here's another story I found today on www.rapturenews.com
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=/ForeignBureaus/archive/200505/FOR20050519a.html
Saudis Shred Bibles, Rights Campaigners Claim
By Patrick Goodenough
CNSNews.com International Editor
May 19, 2005
(CNSNews.com) - Bibles found in the possession of visitors to Saudi Arabia are routinely confiscated by customs officials, and in some cases copies allegedly have been put through a paper shredder, according to religious rights campaigners.
Reports from the Islamic world of the abuse of Bibles and other items important to Christians emerge from time to time, but generally have little impact - in contrast to the wave of Muslim anger sparked by a Newsweek report, since retracted, of Koran desecration by the U.S. military.
"The Muslims respect the Koran far more than Christians respect the Bible," says Danny Nalliah, a Sri Lankan-born evangelical pastor now based in Australia.
During the 1990s, Nalliah spent two years in Saudi Arabia, where he was deeply involved with the underground church.
"It's a very well-known fact that if you have a Bible at customs when you enter the airport, and if they find the Bible, that the Bible is taken and put in the shredder," he said in an interview this week.
"If you have more than one Bible you will be taken into custody, and if you have a quantity of Bibles you will be given 70 lashes for sure - you could even be executed."
Nalliah had not himself seen a Bible being shredded but said the practice was widely acknowledged among Christians in the kingdom.
Abuse of Christians and their symbols was not restricted to the destruction of Bibles, he added.
A friend of his, a fellow Christian in Saudi Arabia, told him of witnessing a particularly unpleasant incident involving a Catholic nun.
The man had been in the transit lounge at the airport in Jeddah - the gateway to Mecca, used by millions of Hajj pilgrims each year - when a nun arrived at the customs desk.
"Some fool [travel agent] had put her on a transit flight in Jeddah. You don't do that to a Catholic nun, because she's going to be tormented."
"They opened her bag, went through her prayer book, put the prayer book through the shredder ... took the crucifix off her neck and smashed it, tormented her for many minutes."
Eventually another Muslim official objected to their conduct, came across and "rescued" her, pointing out to the customs officials that she was not entering the country but only in transit and would be leaving on the next plane.
Briefed beforehand about the risks, Nalliah said he did not carry a Bible when he arrived in the kingdom in 1995.
Subsequently, however, he took possession of hundreds of Bibles that had been smuggled into Saudi Arabia to be used by believers there.
Nalliah said he had a close call one morning when armed members of the notorious Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice - the religious police, or muttawa - hammered at his front door at 1 a.m.
With 400 smuggled Bibles "sitting on the dining room table," he believed his life to be in serious danger. "That was a crime equal to rape, murder, armed robbery, and in Saudi Arabia you get the same punishment," he said - the death penalty.
Nalliah said he had prayed earnestly and, in what he could only describe as a miracle, the men left without entering his home.
'Contraband'
Claims of Bible desecration in Saudi Arabia have been made by others.
"One Christian recently reported that his personal Bible was put into a shredder once he entered customs," the late Nagi Kheir, spokesman for the American Coptic Association and a veteran campaigner for religious freedom in the Middle East, wrote in an article several years ago.
"Some Christians have reported that upon entering Saudi Arabia they have had their personal Bibles taken from them and placed into a paper shredder," the U.S.-based organization International Christian Concern said in a 2001 report.
In its most recent report on religious freedom around the world, the State Department made no reference to Bible destruction, but said they were considered contraband.
"Customs officials routinely open mail and shipments to search for contraband, including ... non-Muslim materials, such as Bibles and religious videotapes," it said. "Such materials are subject to confiscation, although rules appear to be applied arbitrarily."
In a 2003 report on Saudi Arabia, the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, an independent watchdog set up under the 1998 International Religious Freedom Act, said: "Customs officials regularly confiscate Bibles and other religious material when Christian foreign workers arrive at the airport from their home countries initially or return from a vacation."
Inquiries about the legality of Bibles and about the shredder claims, sent to the Saudi Embassy in Washington and the Saudi Information Ministry in Riyadh, were not answered by press time.
Koran vs. Bible
After Nalliah left Saudi Arabia in 1997, he went to the U.S. and took part in the lobbying effort on Capitol Hill in support of what eventually became the International Religious Freedom Act, signed into law the following year.
He heads an evangelical ministry in Australia, where late last year he and a colleague became the first people to be found guilty under a controversial state religious hatred law, after Muslims accused them of vilifying Islam during a post-9/11 seminar for Christians.
Nalliah said this week it did not surprise him that Muslims have reacted strongly to the claims that U.S. interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay base, where terrorism suspects are held, had thrown a Koran into the toilet.
While Bible scholars say the Bible is written by men who were inspired by God, Muslims believe the Koran is "the copy of an original that is sitting in heaven, and has been sent down [by revelation to Mohammed]."
The book is seen as something sacred in itself, he explained, its words having come "directly from Allah. That's why they are so mad when they think something [unseemly] is being done to the Koran."
A Muslim will never keep a Koran at ground level, for instance.
The Pentagon says a January 2003 memo issued to U.S. personnel at Guantanamo Bay instructed them to "ensure that the Koran is not placed in offensive areas such as the floor, near the toilet or sink, near the feet, or dirty/wet areas."
Even in Western societies, Nalliah noted, copies of Bibles could often be found in witness boxes of courts, ready for use when witnesses are sworn in. But the Koran will generally be kept in safe storage elsewhere, covered in cloth, to be brought in when required by a Muslim witness.
He said such reverence for the Koran stood in stark contrast to some Muslims' feelings about the Bible, however.
Nalliah said the Koran was "confusing" on this score. In places (e.g.: sura 29:46-47) it appeared to urge Muslims to respect the Bible and those who believe in it; elsewhere it exhorts them to fight those who don't accept Islam until they pay tribute and accept inferior status (sura 9:29-31).
According to author and Islam scholar Robert Spencer, "a devout Muslim might very well mistreat a Bible, because traditional Islamic theology regards it as a corrupted and unreliable version of the genuine revelations that were given to Moses, Jesus, and other Prophets."
Spencer noted that in sura 9:30 the Koran says those who believe Jesus is the Son of God are under Allah's curse.
"Throughout history, most Muslim theologians have held that the New Testament has been tampered with since it teaches that Jesus is the Son of God."
Some of the more notorious reported incidents of Muslims abusing Christian symbols implicate Palestinian radicals, including the trashing of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem in 2002; and the desecration of Maronite churches in Damour, Lebanon in 1976.
In the Damour episode, Yasser Arafat's PLO killed more than 500 of the Christian town's inhabitants before turning it into a stronghold, and used the interior of the St. Elias church for a shooting range, according to published accounts.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
I don't know if you've heard this on the news yet, but the whole story of flushing the koran was a lie. There was only one source for this story and Newsweek went with it anyway. According to what I've been hearing on the news lately, this story does not check out. Newsweek apologized for the report (now they need to retract it!).
Just for something to think about... is it even Possible to fush a book down a toilet?
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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MySavingGrace
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posted
Other nations are upset enough with the United States and what we do. And to degrade their relgion like that is wrong. (I'm not sayin you have to agree with me but my input.)
I'm not saying one side is more right than the other, just that it is their own relgion and people are sick of our nation degrading people and their beliefs (and i'm not saying we do it i'm saying that is what i feel people perceive if that makes sense)
also, the ones degrading the bible were terrorists not officially from the government. The flushing of their book was done in a prison which was officially governed by our government. And people are very sick of the situation whre that happened to their book way before it even happened. I just think this was the "last straw" etc that sparked a bad flame.
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http://crawfordpeace.nfshost.com/forum
Support the mother who lost her son protest the war
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here are my comments, I am UHaventDoneNothin
http://crawfordpeace.nfshost.com/node/121
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SoftTouch
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posted
Where Was The Outrage?
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44324
quote:
Palestinians used Bible toilet paper
Muslims' desecration of holy book received little notice
While Muslims have responded with deadly outrage to the now-retracted report by Newsweek of alleged Quran desecration by U.S. interrogators, there was little outcry three years ago when Islamic terrorists holed up in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity reportedly used the Bible as toilet paper.
Catholic priests in the church marking the spot where Jesus was believed to have been born said that during the five-week siege, Palestinians tore up some Bibles for toilet paper and removed many valuable sacramental objects, according to a May 15, 2002, report by the Washington Times.
Full article at above link
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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