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Topic: Judgment must begin at the house of God.....
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RioLion
unregistered
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posted
You need to look at the statistics to see that homosexual unions don't last as long as others. There is no indication at all that their not having “the equal rights to marry as heterosexuals” that “they are at a disadvantaged in formalizing long-term relationships”.
Consider the following –
The average homosexual has 50 partners per year, and 79% of the time with strangers (USA Today 1984)
The average life span of an American male is 74 years, but the average life span of the homosexual male is 41 years., and 44 years for lesbians (CRM 1996).
91% of American AIDS cases have been traced to homosexual sex, intravenous drug use, or some combination of the two (Journal of the American Medical Assoc.).
It is beyond comprehension that anyone would support homosexual unions as clearly this kind of thing is really a subculture of death! I could get into the subject of how important the family is today for the proper functioning of our society as another argument against the homosexual lifestyle.
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Miguel
Advanced Member
Member # 47
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posted
All that is the consequences of man doctrines pleasing themselves, but not in every place that the truth is; is liberty of sin to man. Jesus the perfect law was in here among us and can you tell me how many came to Him, He was the perfect preacher! Not many I tell you. The big problem lies in that men thinks he can overcome his very nature and be righteous of his own will.
That is why you see the rate off the roof among many..
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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Thomas Huxley
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Member # 1883
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posted
So, it's apparent that "A Family That Prays Together DOESN'T Stay Together"
Posts: 5 | From: Sonoma, California | Registered: Aug 2003
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Thomas Huxley
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Member # 1883
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posted
Interesting...homosexual unions don't last as long as others. Of course, since they don't have the equal rights to marry as heterosexuals they are at a disadvantage in formalizing long-term relationships.
What state in the United States has the highest per capita rate of evangelical Christians? Answer: Oklahoma
What state in the United States has the highest divorce rate? Answer: Oklahoma
What two regions of the United States have the highest per capita rates of evangelical Christians? Answer: The Mid-west and the South.(also known as the Bible Belt)
What two regions of the United States have the highest rates of divorce? Answer: The Mid-west and the South.
The governor of Oklahoma was so concerned about the divorce rate in his state that he referred to it as an "emergency", and set up a task force to study the phenomenon.
Hmmmm...you'd think that in areas with the highest percentage of evangelical Christians you'd have the lowest divorce rates....wouldn't you?
Posts: 5 | From: Sonoma, California | Registered: Aug 2003
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Miguel
Advanced Member
Member # 47
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posted
Yes indeed, they will continue to seek and desire that which is in their nature and the lust there of.
They call this unity under the blood?
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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RioLion
unregistered
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posted
The Episcopal church - I used to belong, is predicted to adjust like they did when they voted for women priests. Howbeit, there will be a problem with Scripture as there is really no real basis for differing with the traditional interpretation regarding homosexuality. I predict that those members that truly believe in the Scripture will find themselves in other denominations. The Episcopal churches leaving to join the similiar Anglican communities will have to deal with the problem of ownership of property. Many may not want to give up their church buildings but desire to stay in and try to recapture their church from the liberal community that currently makes up most of the leadership. What we can expect to see in the future is the scandals caused by homosexual leadership as homosexual unions seldom are very lasting and they tend to involve themselves with other immoral or illegal activies.
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
2 Tim. 4:
2: Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Hopefully the Bible Believers in the Episcopal Church will separate themselves from this abomination. If they sanction this heresy then apostasy has truly taken over, and they are without excuse.
Romans 1:
26: For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29: Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30: Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31: Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Thomas Huxley
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Member # 1883
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posted
My sincerest congratulations to the Episcopal Churches of America. Change can be difficult, especially within the dogmatic institutions of Christianity. The Episcopal Church made a brave decision in the 1970s to ordain women as priests. That decision was decried because according to Scripture, women are to submit to men in matters of spirituality. Yet the Episcopal Church did not implode because of women priests. In fact, it was made stronger and more inclusive. After much gnashing of teeth, the same will happen because of the vote for the openly gay bishop.
The Episcopal Church should be commended for doing the morally right thing, for seeking inclusion, rather than exclusion.
Incidentally, I have three friends, two former Baptists and one former Catholic, who will be attending Episcopal services this upcoming weekend BECAUSE of the recent events. These are people who haven't attended church services in years because of the hostile and exclusive practices of their respective churches.
Posts: 5 | From: Sonoma, California | Registered: Aug 2003
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Miguel
Advanced Member
Member # 47
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posted
Episcopal Church Elects First Openly Gay Bishop???
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Episcopal Church
The Freedom of Unity Under The Blood????
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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Miguel
Advanced Member
Member # 47
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posted
1 Peter 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1 Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
U.S. Episcopalians may confirm church's 1st openly gay bishop
By Mark I. Pinsky | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted July 28, 2003
When the nation's Episcopalians gather later this week in Minneapolis, they are likely to confirm their first openly gay bishop and to consider a service sanctifying same-sex unions.
A lot of Christians -- across the theological spectrum -- will be holding their breath.
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"Everyone from Mennonites to Catholics will be watching the Episcopalians," said Martin Marty, a retired professor of church history at the University of Chicago.
What happens in Minneapolis is likely to reverberate through American Christianity. The issue of homosexuality, in one form or another, has divided most of the nation's mainline denominations, including Methodists and Presbyterians. For more than a decade, it has provoked bruising battles at national gatherings like the Episcopalians', sparking threats of splits -- although none has thus far materialized.
Partisans on both sides have a huge stake in these battles, but most church members wish the issue would just go away.
For Bishop John Howe of the Episcopal Diocese of Central Florida, the general convention that starts Wednesday is the latest battleground in a struggle to move the 2.4 million-member Episcopal Church, USA, toward a greater acceptance of homosexuality.
At the convention, Howe said, he will oppose same-sex unions, as well as the confirmation of the Rev. V. Gene Robinson to serve as bishop of New Hampshire -- the first openly gay person to hold such a post.
"A bishop is called to be an example to the whole flock," Howe said. By voting for Robinson, "we would be giving tacit approval of this bishop's example." Confirming Robinson, he said, "will stretch the church further toward fracture."
So Howe is banding with other conservative bishops to fight such a move. Howe, a soft-spoken intellectual with a close-cropped silver beard, appears to be emerging -- almost against his will -- as one of the leaders of this effort.
"I feel sadness that the issue hangs over us," he said. "There are so many others we need to be addressing."
As the leader of 45,000 Episcopalians in 15 counties, Howe tends to be circumspect on controversial issues, choosing his words carefully and doling them out parsimoniously.
The changes in the Episcopal Church's views on homosexuality, he said, are "part of a Western world cultural revolution" that has put it at odds with other churches in the 79 million-member Anglican Communion. Much of the tension within the worldwide denomination runs along the equator, with conservative bishops in Africa, Latin America and southern Asia opposing liberalizing moves taken by Anglican and Episcopal bishops in the United Kingdom and North America.
Precedents set
In Vancouver, British Columbia, Anglican Bishop Michael Ingham has been blessing same-sex unions since May. As a result, 15 of the Anglican Church's 38 top leaders around the world, called primates, have suspended or broken relations with the Canadian diocese.
There is concern that the same thing could happen to the Episcopal Church in the United States if the denomination confirms an openly gay man as bishop or approves the blessing of same-sex unions.
Similar threats were voiced against the Church of England in June, when the Rev. Jeffrey John was appointed assistant bishop of Reading, outside London. After it emerged that John had been in a relationship with another Anglican priest for 27 years, John withdrew his candidacy.
The British case illustrates how complex the issue of sexuality is for mainstream denominations.
Howe opposes the confirmation of Robinson as bishop of New Hampshire in the American Episcopal Church because Robinson is a sexually active gay man. However, Howe said he would not have opposed John's appointment in England, because John and his partner said they had been celibate since 1991.
Even in conservative areas of the Sun Belt such as Central Florida, where more-traditional cultural views prevail, the issue of blessing same-sex unions is no longer theoretical.
In June, a wedding announcement, tucked in the corner of a Sunday newspaper page, sent shock waves through the diocese that soon reached Howe's book-lined office.
"Karyn Allee and Lisa Scarcella were married on June 28 in an Episcopal ceremony at the Wyndham Orlando Resort."
Howe was not pleased when he heard about the ceremony -- even though he later learned that the Orlando wedding did not involve a formal Episcopal rite.
"I did the best I could to incorporate some elements that were familiar to me" into the ceremony, said Karyn Allee Scarcella, 31, of Altamonte Springs. "We didn't intend to say that it was a sanctioned religious event, but because our religion is important to us, we wanted to have a ceremony that was faith-based."
The wedding announcement, coupled with concern about the upcoming convention, prompted Howe to summon all clergy from the diocese to discuss and pray about the subject last Friday.
Efforts to prevent split
About 75 members of the clergy, most of those in the diocese, met Friday morning for two hours at the Canterbury Retreat in Oviedo to talk about what should be done if Robinson is confirmed and same-sex unions are approved, Howe said, adding that no decisions were reached.
On July 15, Howe -- with more than 20 other conservative U.S. bishops -- signed a strongly worded open letter to leaders of the worldwide Anglican Communion, decrying "church-rending innovations" and the "deteriorating situation within the Episcopal Church."
Some observers interpret that letter as a warning not to join any split in the denomination. Howe denies that interpretation, but he did meet with the other bishops from the United States and around the world last week in Virginia to plan a convention strategy.
About the same time, the Rev. Frank Griswold, presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, USA, released his own letter, addressed to the same leaders, pleading for understanding of the issues before the convention and asking that they not take hasty action if they disagree with the convention's decisions.
If there is a split in the Anglican Communion, conservative bishops in the United States have implied that their dioceses might leave the Episcopal Church, USA, and align with other conservatives in Africa, Asia and Latin America.
The Diocese of Central Florida, like all 109 U.S. jurisdictions, will send four clergy and four lay representatives, who will vote in the House of Deputies. If Robinson's nomination is confirmed in that body, the House of Bishops will decide whether to ratify that decision. Howe said he expects the entire Central Florida delegation to vote against Robinson.
Their opposition notwithstanding, Howe said there is little chance the popular Robinson will be rejected. Howe thinks conservatives stand a better chance of blocking a proposal to authorize ceremonies to bless same-sex unions.
Some denomination insiders think that if Robinson is confirmed, the bishops will defer action on same-sex unions, which would enable both sides to declare victory and short-circuit any additional controversy.
Liberal colleagues
Although Howe has not softened his opposition to the role of gays in his church, his tone appears to have mellowed. Some in the diocese suggest this change is the result of his yearlong work on the denomination's theology committee, which deals with sexuality.
"We were able to get past the place of gut reactions and diametrically opposed positions," Howe said. In the process, the bishop said, he came to "appreciate the sincerity and integrity of people who hold very different positions from my own" and to deal with them in a "civil and respectful way."
That panel produced a conciliatory report, called the "Gift of Sexuality," which found as much common ground as possible.
His work on the committee put Howe in contact with a very liberal bishop, Robert Ihloff of Maryland. To the surprise of some, the odd couple got along quite well.
"He espouses all of the kinds of causes that I deplore," Ihloff said.
"By nature, I didn't think I would like him." But the two men, who first spent time together in a Bible study in 1998 in Canterbury, England, built on that encounter.
It was, the Maryland bishop said, "a mark of grace" that the two men were able to spend time with each other, "not as an ideology arguing with an ideology," but as two respectful and committed Christians.
Ihloff is not surprised that Howe will oppose Robinson's confirmation or that his Florida colleague will vote against same-sex unions.
These principled differences notwithstanding, Ihloff said, "I count him as a very real friend."
Soon, the two committed adversaries will face each other on the floor of the convention's House of Bishops, an experience that may test their relationship.
Mark I. Pinsky can be reached at mpinsky@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5589.
Copyright © 2003, Orlando Sentinel
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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