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Author
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Topic: Pope Warns Against Religious Hatred
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JefffreyLloyd
Advanced Member
Member # 1151
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posted
I'm not going to respond to your silly comments from an ANTI-CATHOLIC group.
I am a Catholic. I know what my chruch teaches.
It always strikes me as funny to hear others (who aren't) Catholic tell me (who is Catholic) what I believe.
Non-Catholic: You worship Mary
Me: No I don't.
Non-Catholic: Yes you do.
Me: No I don't.
Non-Catholic: Yes you do, Jack Chick said so.
Me: That's nice, I don't however worship Mary.
Non-Catholic: Yes you do.
It just goes on forever! Makes me want to pull my hair out!!!
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Vivat Jesus!
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, worlds without end. Amen.
Posts: 122 | From: Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Waterdog
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Member # 24
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posted
"The Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra, that is, when, in the discharge of the office of pastor and teacher of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith and morals to be held by the universal Church...." "The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful he proclaims in an absolute decision a doctrine pertaining to faith and morals."
http://www.justforcatholics.org/a121.htm
"You realize that the excuse that the pope is infallible only when he makes an official statement is just that, an excuse and a cop out. If, as they say, the pope spoke infallibly on a few occasions only, what remains of this prerogative? Why is it so important to have an infallible pope who rarely, if ever, speaks infallibly? If, in his ordinary teaching office, the pope and the catholic bishops are fallible, why then do Catholics makes such a fuss about us Protestants not having an infallible magisterium?
"The Evangelicals have an infallible and absolute standard of truth, the Bible. We respect and listen to our pastors and teachers. But we are aware of their fallibility. They can make mistakes and thus we insist for the biblical reasons for whatever they teach. We are willing to reject a particular doctrine that is demonstrably contrary to Scripture. We would not blindly submit our minds to the teaching of a Christian minister unless we are convinced that his teaching is in harmony with the Bible.
"It is impossible for them to be faithful Catholics and maintain an attitude of willingness to disagree with something the Catholic church teaches which they think is wrong. Please read carefully the following articles from the Canon Law of the Church (1983).
Canon 752: “While the assent of faith is not required, a religious submission of intellect and will is to be given to any doctrine which either the Supreme Pontiff or the College of Bishops, exercising their authentic Magisterium, declare upon a matter of faith or morals, even though they do not intend to proclaim that doctrine by definitive act. Christ's faithful are therefore to ensure that they avoid whatever does not accord with that doctrine.”
Canon 753: “While not infallible in their teaching, [Catholic bishops] are the authentic instructors and teachers of the faith for Christ's faithful entrusted to their care. The faithful are bound to adhere, with a religious submission of mind, to this authentic Magisterium of their Bishops.”
"The Catholic is bound to shun any contrary opinion to the teaching of the church. He has no option in this matter. He cannot hold a different opinion without violating the church law. The Catholic is bound to submit his intellect and will to the teaching of the church, even with regard to those doctrines that are not officially proclaimed as infallible. If the Catholic sincerely thinks otherwise on a particular matter (say, contraception, celibacy, holy days of obligation and so on) he is still bound to submit to the church’s teaching.
"A Catholic is someone who submits unconditionally to the teaching of the Pope and the Catholic bishops. He must submit even his mind to them. The Catholic must say, “I believe whatever the church teaches, even those things about which I have a different opinion.” Catholics are reduced to the same level of the cults who also require this slavish mental submission from their members to everything thought by the hierarchy.
"An Evangelical is not the religious slave of any human teacher. He listens to godly Christian pastors as they explain God’s Word. Yet he never forfeits his biblical duty to test everything and hold to what is good. Ultimately, the Evangelical says, “I believe whatever the Bible teaches. I believe because I am convinced in my mind that these doctrines are biblical.”"
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So let us go forth to Him outside the camp (Heb 13:11-14)
 
Posts: 374 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Jun 2002
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Catholicious
Advanced Member
Member # 726
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by JefffreyLloyd:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by njclary:
[qb] I can see no melding of the minds regarding Christian and Roman Catholic, until the Roman Catholic begins to understand the true Christian message of Salvation.
Please fill us in, what are we missing?
quote:
Originally posted by njclary:
In WW2 the Pope tried to appease Hitler,
This should be good, how did Pope Pius the XII do? Oh I know what he did (I actually reserached this, and didn't just read what Jack Chick or someother anti-Catholic yahoo said):
- Pope Pius XII opened the Vatican and Vatican properties for shelter for Jews.
- Pope Pius XII filed tons of formal protests against the Nazi's, and actually during the Nuremberg Trials one of the charges of persecutions was against the Catholic Church by the Nazi's. Foreign Minster Ribenthrol said there was a whole desk full of protests from the Church.
- Pope Pius XII faked baptism certificates so Jewish people could present themeless as Catholics and avoid being deported.
- Pope Pius XII helped directed smuggling Jewish people in to Spain to avoid being deported
- Constant behind the scene works was being done. Even assistance given to people who wanted to over throw Hitler from within Germany. Pope Pius helped with the British to get messages back and fourth to these people.
In fact from the end of the war to the time of his death, Pope Pius was hailed and praised by Jewish people for his work on their behalf.
It wasn't until later, many years after his death, these false claims were made. In fact the leading Jewish Rabbi in Rome, later covered to Catholicism took the Pope's name as his confirmation name, and made him his Godfather.
Hitler called Pope Pius, "The voice piece of the jews." And he said he would "crush Pius as a toad under his heel."
Check out Dr. Ronald J. Rychlak's book, "Hitler, the War and the Pope."
[QUOTE]
Jefffrey,
Your defense of the Church during WWII is historically accurate. It seems anything negative against the Church that is fabricated sticks like glue. That is a FAVORITE fabrication of those anti-Catholics. If they would stick to mere fact things would be a lot better. Remember, those in Christ will always be persecuted for professing Jesus Christ and for that reason Catholics are indeed very blessed!
Mark 13:13 (KJV)
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Peace brother! (BTW, I do not mean blood brother just so the protestants are not confused about this.)
Catholicious ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Acts 20:29-30 (NAB)
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock.
30 And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them.
1 Peter 3:15-16 (RSV)
15 but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence;
16 and keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are abused, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.
Matthew 5:11 (KJV)
5 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Peace and God Bless!
Catholicious
Posts: 188 | From: Midwest USA | Registered: Dec 2002
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JefffreyLloyd
Advanced Member
Member # 1151
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by njclary:
I can see no melding of the minds regarding Christian and Roman Catholic, until the Roman Catholic begins to understand the true Christian message of Salvation.
Please fill us in, what are we missing?
quote:
Originally posted by njclary:
In WW2 the Pope tried to appease Hitler,
This should be good, how did Pope Pius the XII do? Oh I know what he did (I actually reserached this, and didn't just read what Jack Chick or someother anti-Catholic yahoo said):
- Pope Pius XII opened the Vatican and Vatican properties for shelter for Jews.
- Pope Pius XII filed tons of formal protests against the Nazi's, and actually during the Nuremberg Trials one of the charges of persecutions was against the Catholic Church by the Nazi's. Foreign Minster Ribenthrol said there was a whole desk full of protests from the Church.
- Pope Pius XII faked baptism certificates so Jewish people could present themeless as Catholics and avoid being deported.
- Pope Pius XII helped directed smuggling Jewish people in to Spain to avoid being deported
- Constant behind the scene works was being done. Even assistance given to people who wanted to over throw Hitler from within Germany. Pope Pius helped with the British to get messages back and fourth to these people.
In fact from the end of the war to the time of his death, Pope Pius was hailed and praised by Jewish people for his work on their behalf.
It wasn't until later, many years after his death, these false claims were made. In fact the leading Jewish Rabbi in Rome, later covered to Catholicism took the Pope's name as his confirmation name, and made him his Godfather.
Hitler called Pope Pius, "The voice piece of the jews." And he said he would "crush Pius as a toad under his heel."
Check out Dr. Ronald J. Rychlak's book, "Hitler, the War and the Pope."
quote:
Originally posted by njclary:
and this Pope is trying to appease Islam. This is tantamount to trying to appease satan. The attitude of saying "Satan is just misunderstood"
Please. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by njclary:
This is what is wrong with Roman Catholisism, One man trying to be God, making decisions for God or in the name of God, that run contrary to Christian Scripture. Appeasing the evil in the world.
Give me a break.
quote:
Originally posted by njclary:
And Scripture clearly says to have nothing to do will evil. Stay away from all things evil.
So how about you lay off the evil catholic-bashing.
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Vivat Jesus!
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, worlds without end. Amen.
Posts: 122 | From: Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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njclary
unregistered
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posted
I can see no melding of the minds regarding Christian and Roman Catholic, until the Roman Catholic begins to understand the true Christian message of Salvation.
In WW2 the Pope tried to appease Hitler, and this Pope is trying to appease Islam. This is tantamount to trying to appease satan. The attitude of saying "Satan is just misunderstood"
This is what is wrong with Roman Catholisism, One man trying to be God, making decisions for God or in the name of God, that run contrary to Christian Scripture. Appeasing the evil in the world. And Scripture clearly says to have nothing to do will evil. Stay away from all things evil.
Islam is CLEARLY against anything Christian. There are those sects of Islam who intend to obliterate anything Christian, whose intent is to kill the Christian. And this'holy man' wants to apease them???
I truly think that the Roman Catholic needs to take a serious look into what it has become. and it is not Christian. I cannot appease that.
God Bless
Joel
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JefffreyLloyd
Advanced Member
Member # 1151
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posted
I fill follow that man as the leader of Christ's church on earth, and the successor of St. Peter. The condescending attitude for your fellow Catholics is really sad. ![[tears]](graemlins/cry2.gif)
Jeff
quote:
Originally posted by MAC:
There you have it folks "Universality" in the flesh.
In addition, they continue to follow this man as if he has been given the authority of the foundation of faith.
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Vivat Jesus!
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, worlds without end. Amen.
Posts: 122 | From: Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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JefffreyLloyd
Advanced Member
Member # 1151
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posted
And which book was John talking about? The whole bible wasn't written at that time or even pieced together.
So, what was John talking about?
quote:
Originally posted by MAC:
Rev 22:18 For I testify together to everyone who hears the Words of the prophecy of this Book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add on him the plagues that have been written in this Book.
Rev 22:19 And if anyone takes away from the Words of the Book of this prophecy, God will take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which have been written in this Book.
Rev 22:20 He who testifies these things says, Yes, I am coming quickly, Amen. Yes, come, Lord Jesus.
Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with all of you. Amen.
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Vivat Jesus!
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, worlds without end. Amen.
Posts: 122 | From: Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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JefffreyLloyd
Advanced Member
Member # 1151
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posted
Drom DailyCatholic.org
Like a drop of oil on a paper, the effects of the singular act of His Holiness John Paul II regarding the most fundamental book of Islam, the Koran or Qu'ran soaks and dulls the consciences of so many. The recent terrorist attacks, added to the atrocities that have continued in Indonesia, the Sudan and other areas of conflict only contribute to the woes that were encouraged by the Pope's 'approval of Islam' by his kissing the Koran two years ago. That sadly famous act took place May 14, 1999 it only became public knowledge on June 1. Drawing the facts from The Catholic News Service and CWN June 3rd issue, I wrote about this event and some of its consequences. Here I would like to share this analysis with you in view of the controversy and concerns surrounding Islamism.
The first one to reveal the news two years ago was the Catholic Patriarch of Iraq, Raphael I Bidawid, who has the title of Patriarch of the Chaldeans of Babylon, a beautiful title that evokes rich historical memories of the Old Testament. A Patriarch would never make a statement like this without the knowledge and approval of the appropriate organs of the Holy See. This is obvious to anyone who is familiar with the analysis of ecclesiastic proceedings. That is to say, the news was channeled down from the Pope himself.
Responding to press questions about the trip of John Paul II to Iraq for the Millennium festivities [which were cancelled and held in Paul VI Hall at the Vatican in 2000 before his trip to the Holy Land], Catholic Patriarch Raphael I said this:
"It is known that Pope John Paul II has often voiced a desire to make a pilgrimage in the footsteps of Abraham, the Common Father of Jews, Christians and Muslims. For the Pope, Abraham is a figure who helps the unity of believers to overcome divisions. On May 14th I was received by the Pope, together with a delegation composed of the Shiite Imam of Khadum mosque and the Sunni president of the council of administration of Iraqi Islamic Bank. There was also a representative of the Iraqi ministry of religion. I renewed our invitation to the Pope, because his visit would be for us a grace from heaven. It would confirm the faith of Christians and prove the Pope's love for the whole of humanity in a mainly Muslin country.
"At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book, the Koran, presented to him by the delegation, and he kissed it as a sign of respect. The photo of that gesture has been shown repeatedly on Iraqi television, and it demonstrates that the Pope is not only aware of the suffering of Iraqi people, he has also great respect for Islam"
There are many aspects of this important event that could be commented upon. I will choose only a few, in order to give principal emphasis to the last point.
Unfortunately, the history of the last Popes is replete with symbolic acts made with the clear intent of favoring progressivism. On the topic of kisses, I recall that during the trip of Paul VI to the Holy Land, he made several symbolic acts, one of which took place during his meeting with Athenagoras in the Garden of Olives. There, in the very place where Judas, with a kiss, delivered the Lamb of God to those who would crucify Him, Paul VI kissed Athenagoras, the schismatic Greek patriarch of Constantinople. What this kiss really signifies is enveloped in the realm of mystery. Another kiss that I remember was that of Paul VI during a Vatican audience. He stepped down from his place of preeminence and knelt down to kiss the feet of the schismatic metropolite Meliton, the representative of the patriarch of Moscow. Supposedly this act expressed his will to "collaborate" in an ecumenical union. In my view, it was a voluntary act of humiliation that dishonored the Supreme Ecclesiastical Authority before an enemy of the Catholic name. In those times, this attitude shocked even the more liberal. Perhaps for this reason, the act was kept relatively quiet.
In his long pontificate, John Paul II has also been prodigal in making symbolic acts like this. Two examples: He visited a Protestant temple in Rome in 1983, only a few days after the new Code of Canon Law began to be applied - which did away with the excommunication of those who committed communicatio in sacris (participating with heretics in the same religious ceremony) - a fact dense in meaning. The visit that he made to the synagogue in Rome and the religious ceremony in which he participated are also examples that come to the mind of the faithful. There, in an attitude of great respect, the Pope listened to psalms and canticles that proclaimed the "primacy" of the synagogue over the Holy Church. If I am not wrong, on that occasion, he and Rabbi Toaf embraced and kissed three times.
The list of such symbolic acts is lamentably long. Perhaps the day is not far off when some one will publish it, analyzing each one in detail. Today I am focusing my commentary on this act - the kiss of the Koran - only in the religious-political ambit.
The Patriarch of the Chaldeans tells us that one of the intentions of John Paul II in kissing the Muslim book was to show his esteem for the Muslims of Iraq. We know that the Muslim nations do not have, like us, the separation of Church and State. For them, the two realities are founded in a single whole. They have what is usually called the sacral State. The civil laws exist to serve the religious ideals. For this reason, to manifest his veneration for the Koran, the Pope in reality rubber-stamped two things: the Muslim population supremacy in Iraq and the politics of Saddam Hussein. In the first instance, he put Catholics who live in Iraq in a very difficult situation, because this indicated that they should live without any hope of converting the followers of Mohammed and one day transforming Iraq into a Catholic State. It is a hard sentence for one who has the true faith and objectively appraises the weight of public opinion over the individual. It is almost an invitation for Catholics to leave Iraq and move to another country. Or, for those who cannot do this, an indirect invitation to change religions... In the second instance, he again adopted an attitude of favoring the socialist regime of Hussein in opposition to the West who justly maintains a military-economic embargo against Iraq.
However, a new and more dramatic fruit of the kiss of the Koran fell in the month of September 1999, after the elections in East Timor to determine its independence from Indonesia. After the elections, in which 71 % of the people chose independence, the troops of the Indonesian army accompanied by an intense action of the militias began a cruel massacre of the Timorese reaction. One of the reasons for this massacre was the fact that East Timor is Catholic. It has long suffered a religious persecution since Indonesia is the most numerous Muslim State in the world. Therefore, the kiss of the Koran by John Paul II endorsed the religious convictions of the Indonesian State and its will to subjugate Catholic Timor. The paradox appears: a Pope who kissed the Muslim book, fortified the State that persecuted Catholics and, in this way, favored the bloodbath on the island.
Undoubtedly, the Holy See tried to intervene to diminish the tragedy that assailed East Timor. The Vatican Information Service reported some facts in this sense. However, those diplomatic gestures were of little avail when, at base, the kiss of the Koran confirmed Muslim convictions everywhere and, therefore, also in Indonesia, the Balkans, Palestine, the Sudan, and many other 'hot spots' throughout the globe - all spawned by the fuel of anti-Catholic hatred that spans back to the 7th century. In the 600's you had the prophet Mohammed followed by the Arabic invasion of the Middle East and North Africa and, later, by the conquest of the Iberian Peninsula. Today we have the terrorism of the Taliban, Osama bin Laden and the al-Qaeda - which have wreaked so much havoc and destruction. Couldn't we ask if the kiss of the Koran indirectly stimulated them in their intent to begin a jihad (holy war) against the West?
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Vivat Jesus!
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, worlds without end. Amen.
Posts: 122 | From: Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Miguel
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Member # 47
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posted
Rev 22:18 For I testify together to everyone who hears the Words of the prophecy of this Book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add on him the plagues that have been written in this Book.
Rev 22:19 And if anyone takes away from the Words of the Book of this prophecy, God will take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which have been written in this Book.
Rev 22:20 He who testifies these things says, Yes, I am coming quickly, Amen. Yes, come, Lord Jesus.
Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with all of you. Amen.
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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Miguel
Advanced Member
Member # 47
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posted
There you have it folks "Universality" in the flesh.
In addition, they continue to follow this man as if he has been given the authority of the foundation of faith.
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
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posted
The Pope knows the Quran enough to kiss it. ![[fie]](graemlins/fie.gif) and here is what the Qu'ran says about Jesus
quote:
Allah has no son:
[an-Nisa' 004:171] O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.
[at-Taubah 009:030] And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!
[Yunus 010:068] They say: Allah hath taken (unto Him) a son - Glorified be He! He hath no needs! His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. Ye have no warrant for this. Tell ye concerning Allah that which ye know not ?
[bani Isra'il 017:111] And say: Praise be to Allah, Who hath not taken unto Himself a son, and Who hath no partner in the Sovereignty, nor hath He any protecting friend through dependence. And magnify Him with all magnificence.
[al-Kahf 018:004-005] And to warn those who say: Allah hath chosen a son, (A thing) whereof they have no knowledge, nor (had) their fathers, Dreadful is the word that cometh out of their mouths. They speak naught but a lie.
[Maryam 019:035] It befitteth not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.
[al-Mu'minun 023:091] Allah hath not chosen any son, nor is there any god along with Him; else would each god have assuredly championed that which he created, and some of them would assuredly have overcome others. Glorified be Allah above all that they allege.
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
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posted
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,82558,00.html
VATICAN CITY — Pope John Paul II urged the faithful Saturday not to allow the Iraq conflict to stir up hatred between Christians and Muslims, saying that would transform the war into a "religious catastrophe."
The pontiff, who strongly opposes the war, made the comments to bishops from Indonesia, a predominantly Muslim country with a small Christian community.
"War must never be allowed to divide world religions," he said. "I encourage you to take this unsettling moment as an occasion to work together, as brothers committed to peace, with your own people, with those of other religious beliefs and with all men and women of good will in order to ensure understanding, cooperation and solidarity.
"Let us not permit a human tragedy also to become a religious catastrophe," he said.
John Paul said Christians in Indonesia suffer discrimination, and he also cited last year's terror bombings in Bali that killed 202 people.
"In all of this, however, one must be careful not to yield to the temptation to define groups of people by the actions of an extremist minority," he said.
"Authentic religion does not advocate terrorism or violence, but seeks to promote in every way the unity and peace of the whole human family."
In the months before the Iraq war began, John Paul lobbied in favor of a negotiated solution. He has said there is no legal or moral justification for the military action, and has worried about how it could affect relations between Christians and Muslims
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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