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Topic: Falwell Apologizes For Calling Muhammad a Terrorist
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listener
Advanced Member
Member # 338
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posted
I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I was ignoring your comments on Islam HFHSchoolers. I wasn't. I take on board everything that people post, and your posts move me to thought more than most. but ... I really think you are wrong. I really think that you feel you are obliged as a Christian to be anti Islamic. You aren't. And ...
I feel that I have been burdened with arguing the Islamic line simply because your (lots of peoples) views are too extreme. I repeat what I have said over and over again. I don't think we should attack other religions, and I don't think that it does us any credit to do so. It's as simple as that. People are prepared to kill another Christian because he belongs to a different sect or church, as in the Catholic/Protestant situation in Ireland. I think that it's madness.
Mohammed was no more a terrorist than Solomon or David. We can't judge any of them by todays views on warfare, regard for sovereign territory or treatment of their fellow man. I think one of them sent one of his closest friends to the frontline and certain death because he'd watched the man's wife bathing, and lusted for her. They were tough times if your wife wasn't ugly and fat.
I am not posting again on topics that refer to Mohammed, Islam, terrorism, or domestic American affairs.
Anybody want to talk about Christianity?
May God Bless you all.
Posts: 119 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Lost
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Member # 343
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quote:
Originally posted by David:
Susan, Lost and listener
I meant what I stated below.
Please do not put people down on the BBS.
Please review the rules you signed when joining.
Lost and listener,
You are not moderators nor admin's on the BBS. I do not need you to explain what I mean. I meant what I said and don't need words put in my mouth.
Susan,
You are more then welcome here but name calling and finger pointing will not be permitted. If you feel this is what you need to do then yes it would be better to go to another message board.
Thank you,
David
my bad. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
lost
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The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. - Rev 22:17
Posts: 115 | From: Los Angeles/San Diego, CA | Registered: Aug 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
Susan you are not on the wrong board please dont leave we are often blessed by your posts, and I pray that many here have also been a blessing to you.
Listener:
You never reply to my comments on your assertions about Islam and I have to wonder why. Have you studied the Historical evidence on Mohammad and the growth of Islam from 600-1300 AD?
What on earth is your deffinition of a terrorist?
Here is what encarta says a terrorist is:somebody using violence for political purposes: somebody who uses violence or the threat of violence, especially bombing, kidnapping, and assassination, to intimidate, often for political purposes
Islam not political? come on.. do you really buy that?
Mohammad was a warrior! He was born in 570 AD, and died in 632 AD. He was both the religious leader and the head of government in Medina!
In 630 AD he led 10,000 troops into battle and conquered Mecca, from which he had orginally fled!
By the time of his death in 632AD most of Arabia had submitted to his religion and his rulership.
Caliphs, Mohammad's sucessor led the Arab Muslim troops in many Holy Wars in whaich they captured spain, much of the middle east and part of Northern Africa. They were successful in evry battle untill 715 AD when the turks pushed them out of what is today Iran. The held Constantinople under siege for all of 717 - 718 Ad, but finnally lost. In 732 AD they lost the "Battle of Tours" and ended their advancement into Western Europe. The Arab/Muslim empire encompassed spain, part of Africa, Egypt, all of Syria, the entire Siani, all of Persia and extended into part of central Asia and the tip of India in 750 AD!
Not political???? Islam is still political today my friend, because the Koran still teaches that all must follow Islam, by choice or by force!
Here is what the Koran says about the enemies of Islam:
"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. ... lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way ..." (9:5)
"Those that make war against God and His apostle and spread disorder in the land shall be put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or be banished from the land. They shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter: except those that repent before you reduce them ..." (5:34,35)
"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God’s religion shall reign supreme" (8:39)
"Prophet, rouse the faithful to arms. If there are twenty steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish two hundred; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding." (8:65)
"Fight against such of those to whom the Scriptures were given ... and do not embrace the true Faith, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (9:29)
Here is what God Almighty says about how we should treat our enemies:
Luke 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
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posted
Susan, Lost and listener
I meant what I stated below.
Please do not put people down on the BBS.
Please review the rules you signed when joining.
Lost and listener,
You are not moderators nor admin's on the BBS. I do not need you to explain what I mean. I meant what I said and don't need words put in my mouth.
Susan,
You are more then welcome here but name calling and finger pointing will not be permitted. If you feel this is what you need to do then yes it would be better to go to another message board.
Thank you,
David
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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listener
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posted
I hope you don't leave Susan. This very thread is about name calling. It's ok to incorrectly state that Mohammed was a terrorist, but not ok to discuss the credibility of Falwell and Hinn. I agree that personal attacks on members should be stamped on, and I have been jumped on from a great height previously, but surely people in the public eye are fair game?
I don't think any of us are improved as Christians, or the cause of Christianity advanced, by making attacks on other religions.
David's comparison with the Christian leaders silence about the Nazis in pre war Germany and Gerry Falwell's comments about Mohammed is absurd.
The Nazis were a political movement. Islam is a religion. Not much to think about there. Except that if this was 1938, and Susan had criticised Hitler ... now that's something to think about eh?
I had a message today from a board member who wrote 'you should say what you mean, and mean what you say'. On balance she thought that once Fulwell had spoken he should have stood by his words. I can't understand why everyone cannot see that it's offensive to make such a comment about any religious leader. I still think the response is influenced by 9/11. I'm certain that the terrorists are delighted that they have influenced you in this way. Made you angry enough to respond in an unChristian way, and not be able to see it. Of all the millions of followers of Islam, a tiny few, hundreds, perhaps a few thousand, have made you resentful of the millions. They couldn't swell their evil ranks. You have done the job for them by lumping the innocent majority with the guilty few. Let's hope that the millions don't decide to live up to the terrorist tag that they have been given.
May God Bless you all.
Posts: 119 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Lost
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hey susan,
no need to leave. i enjoy reading your posts. i think what david is getting at is that there is no place on these boards for just name calling. your earlier comment just labeled two people as false prophets without giving any sort of evidence to your claims. thus they were ad hominem attacks by shifting the focus of the debate from the issue at hand (ie: apology) to attacking people's credibility. in other posts i have seen people express their concern over various members of TBN's station but all with examples and what have you. it is fine to voice your opinion but please state what part of doctrine you believe they are in error instead of labeling them as false prophets and leaving it at that. it just derails meaningful conversation. seems like a fair proposal to me. please continue to warn us about those who may be leading sheep astray. sometimes i need all the help i can get. just present your case and leave it to the jury or open for discussion. please stick around the boards cuz i like having you here. God bless you sister.
lost
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The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. - Rev 22:17
Posts: 115 | From: Los Angeles/San Diego, CA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Susan
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I don't feel the TRUTH should be sugar coated. Jesus wouldn't sugar coat anything. Neither will I. My comment about Mr Falwell and Mr Hinn's techniques were not a direct hit against them as people. I even typed that we should be praying for them. I'm sorry if you took it that way or if I displayed myself that way. I am not their judge but I can speak out against obvious unscriptural acts/words/ teachings/techniques.
God did tells us to watch out for the leaven of the Pharisee's.
I don't believe we should nave religious tolerance because that would be two faced against the Truth of God. But we can go about it without violence.
If this is not acceptable from me then you are right, I am at the wrong board. I believe in TRUTH. Right is right and wrong is wrong. When it is obvious, it should be brought to the attention of all so they do not fall into that trap.
I guess this will have to be good-bye.
I sadly leave with all of you in my prayers always. I need to be where the truth can be freely spoken.
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Miguel
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Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute [you], delivering [you] up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
Revelation 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
![[Lighthouse]](graemlins/lighthouse.gif)
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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Kindgo
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Falwell Targeted for Death (might explain his apology)
I guess this is different from the average run-of-the-mill death threats that broadly cover all Christian religious leaders.
This one is specifically for Fallwell because he "infringed on the prophet [Mohammed's] dignity."
Mon Oct 14 16:58:03 2002
Source: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/art...13/172833.shtml
NewsMax Staff Monday, Oct. 14, 2002 "I think Mohammed was a terrorist. I read enough by both Muslims and non-Muslims, [to decide] that he was a violent man, a man of war," Jerry Falwell said in a CBS interview last week. Now, Mohsen Shabestari, a representative of Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has fired back some rhetoric of his own, proclaiming, "The death of that man is a religious duty, but his case should not be tied to the Christian community." The upset and shaken conservative Baptist minister apologized Saturday:
"I sincerely apologize that certain statements of mine made during an interview for the September 30 edition of CBS's '60 Minutes' were hurtful to the feelings of many Muslims," he said from Lynchburg, Virginia. "I intended no disrespect to any sincere, law-abiding Muslim."
Shabestari, addressing weekly Friday prayers in the northwestern town Tabriz, said Falwell is a "mercenary and must be killed," according to a report in the Farsi-language newspaper Abrar.
Adding his voice to Shabestari’s, Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah in Lebanon on Saturday called on Muslim countries to respond to Falwell who, he said, had "infringed on the prophet [Mohammed's] dignity."
Fadlallah, however, was less bloodthirsty, advising against actual "physical violence" towards Falwell, explaining that Islam is "a religion of mercy and love."
Fadlallah has been calling for the Muslim world to fight back against "a cultural war" he maintains was launched against Islam following the Sept. 11 terror attacks. He wants all Muslim countries to call down Falwell who, he said, had "infringed on the prophet [Mohammed's] dignity."
Meanwhile, Falwell, adding to his apology, explained, "In my more than 50 years of Christian ministry, I have never preached a sermon on Islam. I have never written a book or booklet on the subject. I have always shown respect for other religions, faiths and denominations."
Since Falwell’s remarks on "60 Minutes,” angry Muslims around the world have reacted. Police report that Friday in the Indian city of Solapur violence triggered by the minister's comments had left eight dead and more than 90 injured.
The uprising in Solapur occurred when a gathering of Muslim youths demonstrated in the city to protest the remarks.
Non-Muslims are getting in on the action as well. British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said Falwell's comments were "outrageous and insulting."
(Christians are notorious for "shooting" our own wounded- we are merciless when it comes to our own brothers and sisters)
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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Miguel
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I believed it is more than what we know, he is getting pressure from (A) man if you take time and look at it, is more tours the political arena. We know the condition of Muhammad, so why the low down humbleness?
Anyone in the board has any idea beside mines. ![[hmm]](graemlins/icon14.gif)
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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It is interesting reading Larry. I have read it and found that the so called extrememists know much more about what the Koran says than do those who preach that Islam is religion of peace. It simply is not!
Be aware though that the followers of Islam will tell you that you have to read arabic to rightly interpret the Koran.
I find it humorous that anyone would think God only communicates in Arabic!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Larry Twidwell
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I have just borrowed a copy of the Quran from an Elder in our Church, and downloaded another copy from the Internet for comparison. Although I have felt it a waste of time to study false religions when I could be in Gods' Word, I believe that there are so many different definitions associated with Islam flying around that I want to know which Islamic "faction" is right. I think that we are being cajoled into believing that Bin Ladens' organization is just a radical splinter group, but I'm going to find out for myself.
I would like to add, our Lord knows, and He will deal with Islam.
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Serving Him, Larry
http://www.bloodofthelamb.org
Posts: 19 | From: Klamath River, CA | Registered: Aug 2002
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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by Susan:
Falwell, in my book, falls under the catagory of false prophet. God said you will kno them by their fruits.
Also, Benny Hinn is in the same book, if not worse. How cn he have such a following? Desperate, lost souls. We really need to pray for them.
Susan,
Please do not put people down on the BBS.
Please review the rules you signed when joining.
Rule #2
No ad homonym attacks. Criticize ideas, not people.
See rules at the below link:
http://thechristianbbs.com/rules.html
Thank you.
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
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Religious Tolerance?
To this day, Germany's pre-World War II Christian leaders are rightly criticized because few were willing to speak out against the anti-Semitic policies of the Nazis.
What is the Hitler-like destroyer of our day? Is it a national policy of abortion? Or is the destroyer a spirit of relativism that is leading millions to believe that it is safe for everyone to do what is right in his own eyes? Without absolute moral convictions, many today are falling into the fires of heterosexual and homosexual sin. By assuming that what counts is our own satisfaction and avoidance of pain, we have become addicted to food, alcohol, work, television, and sexualized relationships. By assuming that one religion is as good as another, hundreds of thousands of people have lost the fear of God and have discounted the reality of waking up one day in the kind of eternal state Jesus talked about.
The most important person in history is Jesus of Nazareth. All of Western Civilization has been influenced by Him. Jesus walked the land of Israel 2000 years ago, healed the sick, forgave sins, and preached a gospel of goodness, love, peace, joy, and . . . intolerance.
That is right. Jesus was intolerant. Jesus said,
Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me" (John 14:6).1
"I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins" (John 8:24).
"All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son, except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father, except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him" (Matt. 11:27).
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness" (Matt. 23:27).
How is it that Jesus could be so loving and truthful and yet be so religiously intolerant at the same time? It is easy. He, being the God incarnate (John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9), rightly pointed to Himself alone as the only way to God, the only one who could reveal the true nature of God, heaven, salvation, and the divine will. He proved who He was by fulfilling prophecy, performing miracles, curing sickness, walking on water, and rising from the dead.
This is not to say, though, that Christians have an excuse to be intolerant, hateful, or judgmental towards those of differing faiths. On the contrary, we are called to live in love and harmony. But, still, truth is a very serious issue. As a Christian, I am committed to following the Lord Jesus and what He stands for. His word, the Bible, is the revelation of God to His people and it contains the truths revealed from God about Himself and what He desires for us. Is this important? Of course! Because if God says it, that is the standard of truth.
Okay, so some might be saying "That is your truth to believe in the Christian God and not mine." Such is the typical relativism in the world today and it is precisely the point at issue here. Truth is not contradictory. We cannot have the Mormon god (an exalted man from another planet who has a goddess wife), be the same truth as the New Age god (a semi-non-personal essence of divine consciousness). It is not a simple matter of "Your truth vs. my truth." God is not self-contradictory. God has revealed Himself and He warns us to worship Him in truth, not error.
Religious tolerance is very important because as Christians we need to love our neighbors and our enemies. You cannot do that by hating them and condemning them. Nevertheless, religious tolerance does not mean that we Christians have to agree with the doctrines of contradictory faiths, especially when they oppose the Bible. On the contrary, we are supposed to confront false doctrines. Why? Because false gods do not save anyone. Only the true God saves people from their sins.
As Christians we must be loving and tolerant. But, again, that does not mean that we must forfeit the truth that has once for all been delivered to the Saints (Jude 3). I am not advocating hatred and condemnation. On the contrary. I am advocating that the Bible, as the only inspired word of God, says we are to love our enemies and pray for them that persecute us (Matt. 5:44). This is the essence of tolerance and is best exemplified in the life of Christ who forgave and healed so many -- even though they did not deserve it. He was merciful and we need to be just as merciful and kind.
Religious tolerance is a vital part of of getting along in America. We need to practice it better. But, we also need to fight for the faith and not back down from the truth. Deliver this truth with love.
"But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith" (1 Tim. 1:5).
The Bible gives us a genuine basis to recognize hypocrisy and confront it for what it is. Because the Bible upholds the dignity of all persons as image-bearers of God, we have a basis for a genuinely diverse culture. When faithful to the scripture, Christianity is tolerant in the appropriate sense of the term.
But as many define tolerance today, Christianity is intolerant. When tolerance means that we are to accept all beliefs as equally true and valid, Christians must respectfully object. The notion that truth is a social construct is both unbiblical and dangerous. Truth matters. It's no mere philosophical abstraction. Jesus said, "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." Our commission is to spread the good news to all the peoples of the earth. To make effective inroads in today's multi-ethnic, culturally diverse university, we must do the hard work of engaging the thinking behind pluralism and the demands of this new meaning of tolerance.
Christians need to be respectful of what others believe and of the traditions and experiences that form those beliefs. Scripture upholds the value of cultural diversity by tells us to "respect what is right in the sight of all people" (Romans 14) and "be all things to all people" (1 Corinthians 9). But the postmodern demand to uncritically accept all beliefs as true (at least for the person who believes them) is fanatical.
If we are to love others we must let them know that hell is real, hell if forever! We can not stand by and act like it is ok to worship together and that what ever you want to believe is OK. We must state the fact of what our God has told us.
> Do you mean 'stand up and be counted' as Americans or as Christians?
I serve God first, then America. We as Christians have set back way to long and have said nothing. That is why there is no prayer in school and God has almost be removed from everything. Yes we need to take our stand out of love for others. And tell people the truth. Sitting back and watching people slid into hell is not loving in my book.
Something to think about,
David
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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listener
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"I have always shown respect for other religions, faiths and denominations.…'
Are we to assume David, Susan and njclary, that you don't think we should show such respect?
I'm not going to post on Islamic related issues again because I think it raises a conflict of identity in some people. The American identity has become very strong since 9/11. Understandably.
I sometimes feel that posts are made on a patriotic basis as opposed to a religious viewpoint.
That was the mistake Fulwell made. He allowed himself to speak as an American, and not purely as a Christian. I can understand that, but he was being asked questions on religious issues, not nationalistic ones, in his capacity as a church leader.
I just feel that as Christians we should respect the religious views of those we disagree with.
If we don't, more and more ordinary people of other faiths will be drawn into the satanic clutches of the terrorists. They will believe they are defending their faith against attack.
Is it important what they believe?
The phrase 'Stand Up and Be Counted' has been used several times in respect of Fulwells apology.
Do you mean 'stand up and be counted' as Americans or as Christians?
May God Bless you all.
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Susan
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Member # 131
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posted
Falwell, in my book, falls under the catagory of false prophet. God said you will kno them by their fruits.
Also, Benny Hinn is in the same book, if not worse. How cn he have such a following? Desperate, lost souls. We really need to pray for them.
Posts: 141 | Registered: Jul 2002
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njclary
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I'm sorry friends; but Brother Jerry's apology just lessens his overall credibility. Time and again he makes statements and time and again he apologizes for them. Where is his Christian conviction?
This is the suppossed flagship leader of the fundamentalist movement. and I am finding that He, like so many other Christian leaders, waffle in the face of pressure.
If We are Christians, STAND UP, BE COUNTED, let our voice be heard!!!!!!!
God Bless
Joel
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knowHim
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Falwell Apologizes For Calling Muhammad a Terrorist
Falwell apologizes amid calls for his death
"I sincerely apologize that certain statements of mine made during an interview for CBS's 60 Minutes were hurtful to the feelings of many Muslims," pastor Jerry Falwell said as international media swarmed with reports of fallout from last week's remarks. "I intended no disrespect to any sincere, law-abiding Muslim," he said. "I have always shown respect for other religions, faiths and denominations.…Unfortunately, I answered one controversial and loaded question at the conclusion of an hour-long CBS interview which I should not have answered. That was a mistake and I apologize."
Muslim leaders accepted the apology. "It's good and fitting that he should apologize for remarks which hurt so many Muslims' feelings around the world," an unnamed Egyptian official told Reuters. "But people should really think before they speak, and make sure they really know about Islam before commenting on it."
Iranian foreign affairs ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi also told the news service, "Because he said he did not want to deliberately offend Muslims and he apologized, that is a positive statement and we hope he won't repeat that mistake again.…At this time nobody should encourage hatred between different civilizations and different religious groups."
But this may not be the end of the story. Falwell was blamed for deadly riots between Muslims and Hindus in India over the weekend, and Iranian cleric Mohsen Mojtahed Shabestari, an envoy of Iran's supreme leader, said Falwell was "a mercenary and must be killed.…The death of that man is a religious duty, his case should not be tied to the Christian community." (According to AFP, he also issued death orders for Pat Robertson and Franklin Graham.)
We'll have more on Falwell's comments and the global reaction to them later this week.
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Plow on, plow on...
David Campbell
Posts: 426 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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