Christian Message Boards: Martyr or Muderer?

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Posted by David (Member # 1) on :

Just wanting to know your thoughts on the below story. Martyr or Muderer

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Pro-Lifers Clash Over Paul Hill (To Face His Executioner Today): Martyr or Murderer

The spiritual adviser to convicted murderer Paul Hill, who killed an abortionist and a clinic escort, criticized pro-life organizations for their unwillingness to support the former Presbyterian minister as he awaited a Wednesday execution ...

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Below is why Paul Hill said he did it:

Why Shoot An Abortionist?
by Paul Hill

When I first appeared on Donahue, I asked the audience to suspend judgment as to whether the action had been wise, but I took the position that Griffin's killing of Dr. Gunn was justified. I later realized, however, that using the force necessary to defend the unborn gives credibility, urgency, and direction to the pro-life movement which it has lacked and which it needs in order to prevail.

I realized that using force to stop abortion is the same means that God has used to stop similar atrocities throughout history. In the book of Esther, for instance, Ahasuerus, king of Persia, passed a law in 473 B.C. allowing the Persians to kill their Jewish neighbors. But the Jews did not passively submit; their uses of defensive force prevented a calamity of immense proportions.

In much the same way, when abortion was first legalized in our nation, if the people had resisted this atrocity with the means necessary it would have saved millions of children from a bloody death. It is not unwise or unspiritual, thus, to use the means that God has appointed for keeping His commandments; rather it is presumptuous to neglect these means and expect Him to work apart from them.

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Posted by Bill Gilman (Member # 2002) on :

Good topic.

My position is firm and is found in Matthew 5.

Jesus was, in fact, a pacifist and any anger he did show was justified because He is God.

God gave life and God takes it away, period.

War, capital punishment and abortion are all one in the same.

Posted by knowHim (Member # 8) on :

War - Should a Christian go to war?

This is a good question. I believe we are to protect our self's from the terrorist. Not out of revenge, but for protection.

There is a time for war and a time for peace (Ecc 3:8). God wages war when it is necessary, though he prefers peace to war, just as he punishes the wicked because justice demands it, though he would rather that the wicked repented (Ezek 33:11). Sometimes, particularly in the OT, God uses war to punish wicked civilizations. Exodus 15:3 refers to the destruction of Pharaoh and his army, who had repeatedly rejected God despite seeing his power through the Plagues and hearing his warnings. In 1 Samuel 15, God tells the Israelites to make war on the Amalekites because the Amalekites first attacked Israel without provocation and killed the weakest people in their population (Deut 25:17-18).
In Matthew 10:34, I believe Jesus is referring to the fact that his coming forces people to choose sides: either they will choose to do what's right and follow Christ, or they will choose to avoid persecution and reject him. The result is that even families will be divided, as those who reject Christ turn on those who accept him (Mt 10:35). Since God would rather have everyone repent and turn to him, this war is not something he's overjoyed about, but rather it is a result of people choosing to reject him.

In Luke 22:36, Jesus seems to be advising the disciples to use self-defense when necessary, but nothing more. He's not advocating violence as a way of doing things; rather, he argues against this in Matthew 26:52. Besides, he says that two swords are enough for the eleven disciples (Lk 22:38).

I personally believe that armed preparedness is necessary, and that Christian citizenship obligates us to obey those in authority, serving in the military should a war develop.

Romans 13:1 (NIV)
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

Titus 3:1-2 (NIV)
Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and to show true humility toward all men.

Hebrews 13:7 (NIV)
Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.

Was is the fruit of sin. And we must try and stop the terrorist from more murder. We should not do it for revenge but for the protection of the innocent.

1 Peter 2:13-14 (NKJV)
Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme, or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.

Posted by Daniel S (Member # 1714) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gilman:
...War, capital punishment and abortion are all one in the same.

Once again we paint with too broad a brush. Scripture does not treat them all the same.
(PS: I don't advocate for any of them.)