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Author
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Topic: The Truth Needs to be Told.
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ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by MentorsRiddle:
This post has gotten completly out of hand from what it was ment to be.
Chaos has followed it, and has started to delude the origional thought and intent.
This post was simply about how America has become too saturated by sin and darkenss and has lost its direction in this world.
I never ment this to get into a debate, or a muslim bash.
You're right that it got a little off topic from the original post, but I felt that I couldn't let the casual comment lie. I feel that if we don't challenge off hand statements like that, they can become the 'accepted wisdom' without really thinking about them. I would have been a much further wander off topic if I had picked up the comment on evolution ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Anyway, I agree that spreading the message is a Good Thing, but we also need to think about the way to convey the message, and the different approaches that might be appropriate in different situations and for different people.
For example, in another thread on the board discussing gay marriage, someone asked for an explanation of why it is a bad thing without bible quotes. It may be that their first steps need to be taken from a logical rather than theological point of view.
In the UK the Anglican church has a very sucessful program called the Alpha course which starts from a logical and philisophical point and slowy introduces theological concepts - that approach seems to work for some people.
I also think that we need to take a hard look at our views of how and why we think that society is moving further from God's laws. I think that we confine our views of sin to a few high profile moral issues - abortion, homosexuality etc - and miss deeper issues such as poverty, inequality and consumerism which have their roots in greed, avarice and the loss of God from our lives. We have, over time, become rich and complacent, forgetting that our duties to charity and to our neighbours mean more than a few tens of pounds (or dollars or whatever your local currency is) in the collection plate, and that our neighbours extend beyond our country's borders. I unfortunately am as guilty of this as anyone.
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Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
Why focus on negative energy? Where does it get anyone??? Dont try to convert a Muslim because you would not want them to try and convert you????
You can chose to see only the good if you like, but the reality is that the world is not good and we are not to be deceived that it is. The world is evil and unless people are born again of GOd.. people are evil and can do nothing good.
God loves them anyway and wants them to repent and thus we speak the truth which is to say that the world is evil and headed for destruction and man is evil and headed for hell and like John the Baptist and Jeremiah before him and Elijah before him we say so and we preach the Gospel... Repent, Repent destruction is coming God is not mocked... sin is followed by death.
It is not loving to placate people, to remain silent while they head down the path of destruction, even if we do these thigns because we ourselves do not want to see that the world is evil.
Jesus said the world is enemy with us.
You are right you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink.. only GOd can do this, but still we lead and we say that if you do not drink you will die of thirst for this is true. God forbid that we should be found to have not warned the horse that not drinking of the water of life leads to death and eternal damnation!
We are supposed to see the evil in the world because we are supposed to be watching, we are supposed to know what time it is and we are not supposed to have the day come upon us as a theif in the night.
You preach the world's view of love, and it is not love it is hate.
It does not mean that we do not have peace and joy... our peace and joy is not related to what is or is not happening in the world. If you think that your peace and joy be disturbed by your accurately seeing the evil in the world as evil as it is, then I suggest that you evaluate the source of your peace and joy.
And, as far as Islam goes.. Islam is not a relgion of peace. For Islam, there can be no lasting peace until all worship Allah. Islam is npt tollerant. There is no place in Islam for any other religion.
Christianity on the other hand is not suposed to force coversion or to hold someone in obedience by force and fear.... those who have done that throughout history in the name of Christianity are not Christians!
Romanism made the persecuted church to become the persecutors of the Jews and others who would not comply, but this is not and has never been the way of Christianity. Romanism is not Christianity.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
This post has gotten completly out of hand from what it was ment to be.
Chaos has followed it, and has started to delude the origional thought and intent.
This post was simply about how America has become too saturated by sin and darkenss and has lost its direction in this world.
I never ment this to get into a debate, or a muslim bash.
There is no doubt in my mind that there are muslims out there who do not want to see us dead. However there are those that do. There are Christians who do evil things (spanish inquisition, crusades, etc.) but ther are also Christians who wish to do good things.
Despite the fact that there are good muslims, the simple fact is that they are misdirected and do not with to share in the truth and love of Jesus Christ. For that reason they are going to hell untill they change their ways.
But enough about Muslims. Basically in a nut shell all I wanted to convey is the thought that we can make a difference if we simply share the truth and love of Jesus Christ
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eduardo Grequi:
Because I work with many arab people some being muslin they speak there language and verbatim they say- WE ARE SENT OUT BY ALLAH TO CONVERT THE WORLD AND MAKE EACH NATION AN ISLAMIC STATE EVEN BY FORCE. MOST MUSLIMS RATHER LIVE AT PEACE BUT THEY EDUCATING THEIR BUNCHES TO TAKE OFFICES AND EVIDENTUALLY FORCE CHRISTIANDOM OUT THE DOOR. PRESIDENT BUSH ALREADY HAVE WAVERED HIS FAITH.
BEING TOLERANT DOESN'T MEAN WE HAVE TO FORSAKE OUR FAITH, WE JUST NEED TO LIVE IT BY EXAMPLE.
Apart from the bit about using force, this is little different to Christianity. We are charged by God to spread the word and evangalise. We shouldn't be surprised if other religions have a similar ethos.
There are hundreds of thousands of muslims that live very peacefully within the UK, and a tiny minority are involved in violent acts or agree with the forcful introduction of Islam.
I should remind you that over the last 30 years, apart from the bombing in July last year, almost all the terrorist acts carried out in the UK were undertaken by people who called themselves christians (the IRA, nominally a catholic organisation) and were in the large part funded by subscriptions collected in the USA under the banner of NORAID.
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Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
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posted
Because I work with many arab people some being muslin they speak there language and verbatim they say- WE ARE SENT OUT BY ALLAH TO CONVERT THE WORLD AND MAKE EACH NATION AN ISLAMIC STATE EVEN BY FORCE. MOST MUSLIMS RATHER LIVE AT PEACE BUT THEY EDUCATING THEIR BUNCHES TO TAKE OFFICES AND EVIDENTUALLY FORCE CHRISTIANDOM OUT THE DOOR. PRESIDENT BUSH ALREADY HAVE WAVERED HIS FAITH.
BEING TOLERANT DOESN'T MEAN WE HAVE TO FORSAKE OUR FAITH, WE JUST NEED TO LIVE IT BY EXAMPLE.
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
The Muslum's teach that they are to either change non Muslum's to the Muslum ways are kill them. It seems pretty clear to me.
I know and have worked with many Muslims (there's a Mosque just round the corner from my apartment) and in my many conversations no one has ever said this. Unfortunately this kind of thought comes from not having much contact with real people.
People can use religions in terrible ways - it is not just Islam that is used to justify terrible acts. We should not forget the terrible history across the world of people using Christianity to justify wholesale slaughter - remember that people used christianity to try and justify the racial oppression in the US and South Africa.
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Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
Amen!
I can't wait for Jesus to return!
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738
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posted
Well, In Michigan, where my sisters-in-laws live, there are many muslims and even at several mosacs(Spell?) they play over a loud speaker the calls to prayer. She said its very loud and can be heard for blocks down the road.
Its funny that they(Muslims) can do that,(here in the US) but one (Christian)is arressted (here in the US) on the streets for preaching the gospel of which our Lord Yeshua commissioned us to do. Go into all the world and preach the gospel.
And yes its true, things are much worse now especially here in the US than they were say even 50 years ago.
But we are children of the day and of the light. should be no surprize to us. Things were pretty bad in Sodom and Gomorahs day too. And I for one believe we are yet again liken to those days of Sodom.
But rejoice dear brothers and sisters in Yeshua! For the signs of His coming soon is all around us. And of His Kingdom and Government shall be no end. For He, Yeshua will reign over all the earth. HallaluYah!
Baruch Ha Ba BaShem Adonai! Shalom
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
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posted
The Muslum's teach that they are to either change non Muslum's to the Muslum ways are kill them. It seems pretty clear to me.
I don't know what world some people live in, but I am 54 and I can say the world is not a better place and is far worse than when I was a kid.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
oh my goodness pepople take things to literally
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by MentorsRiddle:
[QUOTE] More to the point true Muslims would prefer to see us dead, and the Jews will reject us as they did the messiah. Funny Charles Mansion was very “nice” person until he wanted to kill you…
Comparing Muslims to Charles Mansion is appalling - the vast majority do not hate Christians and want them dead. There is a much larger proportion that hates the USA though - don't confuse the two.
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Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
quote:
My friend, I only disagree with your scare tactic approach. You only see wickedness, and that is fine if you choose that lifestyle. I would much rather see the love and caring all over the world. I speak the truth to those who wish to listen. As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can not make him drink. Would you like a Muslim to come to you and try to convert you? Neither would I and I will not do it to a Muslim.
There are no scare tatics in my approach. There is again only truth. I see wickedness because this world is wicked. I also see love in many of the things around me. But sadly there is more wicked than there is good.
If a muslim approached me and tried to convert me I would simply tell him he is wrong and tell him the truth. The wonderful news of Our Lord and Savior.
So actually I would love for them to approach me and speak to me about their faith. That gives me an open door to speak to them about theirs.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Chuck Schwab
Community Member
Member # 5857
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posted
My friend, I only disagree with your scare tactic approach. You only see wickedness, and that is fine if you choose that lifestyle. I would much rather see the love and caring all over the world. I speak the truth to those who wish to listen. As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can not make him drink. Would you like a Muslim to come to you and try to convert you? Neither would I and I will not do it to a Muslim.
Posts: 12 | From: Mount Joy, Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2006
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
quote:
The truth? Yours or God's? Because I hear a whole bunch of YOU and a lot less of Him, and I mean that with all respect.
Who did Jesus sit with and eat with? Was it the sinners? I believe so. So how did he not tolerate? He did NOT turn his back on sinners! We are all sinners, are you then against yourself? Or are you not a sinner?
You are absolutley correct. Jesus did sit and eat with sinners. He said he comes to call the sinners to repentance not the rightious. And you are putting words in my mouth and twisting what I have spoken and trying to place me in a word trap the same way people did to Christ during his time here. He did sit with them and eat with them, but he also did what, that you have clearly forgotten? he told them the TRUTH. That they were sinners. That they are doing wrong. which is what this wole post was about to begin with.
You say that I am speaking my will and not Gods. I am simply saying what God told us to do. Speak the Truth. Which is what I posted to begin with. You have heard what you wanted to, and you are ignoring what doesn't support your claim.
I never said we should not sit with sinners... I never said that we should be intolerent of them. I said that we should not tolerate the sin and let that be known. To say that their way is wrong and they are going to hell if they don't change their ways.
And just to beat you to the punch. Saying someone is going to hell doesn't show you hate them... it shows you love them enough to care for their eternal souls.
So again tell me... Is it correct to tolerate the sin and not speak out against it? Which is what this post was about to begin with... or is it correct to do nothing and let them walk blindly into the very depths of hell?
If you truly loved and cared for these people as much as you do you would let them know.
Have you ever spoke to one of your Muslim friends about Jesus and tried to lead them to the lord? If so have you done it more than once after they shot you down?
What about some of your Jewish friends?
Before you try to point a finger at me and how I am so sinnful by placing my will above Gods. Prehaps you should point the finger back at yourself and see how you are placing your own desires and truths above God's...
With love
-Mentor
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Chuck Schwab
Community Member
Member # 5857
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by MentorsRiddle:
So if we being Christians (Christ like) are tolerant of the evil of men’s hearts then I don’t see how we can call ourselves Christians.
It sounds to me like I offended you by my post. Many people who get offended by something are often mad because they feel convicted of something someone said.
So if I convicted you or offended you… Good. That means that you have heard truth…
The truth? Yours or God's? Because I hear a whole bunch of YOU and a lot less of Him, and I mean that with all respect.
Who did Jesus sit with and eat with? Was it the sinners? I believe so. So how did he not tolerate? He did NOT turn his back on sinners! We are all sinners, are you then against yourself? Or are you not a sinner?
Posts: 12 | From: Mount Joy, Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2006
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MentorsRiddle
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Member # 2108
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posted
quote:
Where is the proof in "everything is so horrible' attitude? Have we ignored our history? Did you know that with the increase in population compared to the population 200 years ago nothing has changed? Statistically none of these claims hold any water.
I focus on all the good people I meet. The good hearted Christians all over who are happy to be alive and share in the fellowship of the Lord. And you know what, I enjoy talking to Muslims, Jews, and others who are some very nice people despite their beliefs. Why focus on negative energy? Where is it getting anyone? I'll tell you where they are paranoid, scared, and untrusting and are part of the problem, not the solution. But if you practice love, compassion, and caring and it's a whole different story.
I will attempt to answer your questions as best I can.
1. Where is the proof in “everything is so horrible’ attitude?
A. Please look around you my friend. Things are much more morally and ethically corrupt than they were 200 years ago. Now there is no respect for anyone or anything by the majority of the population.
2. Have we ignored our history?
A. I am a huge history buff. For this reason I know good and well that our history has not always been so chaotic. I am not going to take the time to explain all this out. Even if I did you would not want to read it.
3. More of a statement than a question: “Statistically none of these claims hold any water”.
A. Statistics are the easiest way to lie to people by “truthful” means. I can make a statistic on anything I want as long as I ask the correct people and look in the right places I can make them say anything… Please though if you can give me one of these Statistics that you speak of and I will be happy to comment.
4. We are all ment to be alive and share in fellowship of the Lord, But Muslims and Jews (whom I love very much by the way) do not share in our Christian fellowship. More to the point true Muslims would prefer to see us dead, and the Jews will reject us as they did the messiah. Funny Charles Mansion was very “nice” person until he wanted to kill you…
5. You used the phrase “Negative Energy”… My friend this is a new age thought process. There is only right and wrong. There is only Good and bad. There is no such thing as negative energy and good energy. This is mumbo jumbo brought about by new age thinkers.
6. As for practicing love, compassion, etc. That is why I am telling people to speak the truth. If you love someone you will speak the truth and not hide behind your own fright to stand up for what you believe in to those who will persecute you.
Now I have answered all your questions you have given over to me. Now I will ask one of you:
How can you say you are a Christian and also say you are fine with the world as it is? You have just basically said that we just need to be tolerant of the world the way that it is.
Was Jesus tolerant when they were making the temple into a house of sin?
Was Jesus tolerant with Satan when he tempted him?
The answer to both of these questions are NO.
So if we being Christians (Christ like) are tolerant of the evil of men’s hearts then I don’t see how we can call ourselves Christians.
It sounds to me like I offended you by my post. Many people who get offended by something are often mad because they feel convicted of something someone said.
So if I convicted you or offended you… Good. That means that you have heard truth…
--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Chuck Schwab
Community Member
Member # 5857
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by MentorsRiddle:
We live in a world today where wickedness is considered the norm. and where compassion and kindness is considered wicked.
Now think about the above statement I have just made. It is so sad that a statement like this can be made and it ring so true to so many hearts.
It's funny how I keep hearing every year how things are soooo much worse, 10 years ago it was the same thing. 100 years ago, before I was born, guess what? The same thing!
We put our "faith" in the 6 O'clock news and the stories they tell us. We open the paper to read about all the horrible events that happened yesterday.
Where is the proof in "everything is so horrible' attitude? Have we ignored our history? Did you know that with the increase in population compared to the population 200 years ago nothing has changed? Statistically none of these claims hold any water.
I focus on all the good people I meet. The good hearted Christians all over who are happy to be alive and share in the fellowship of the Lord. And you know what, I enjoy talking to Muslims, Jews, and others who are some very nice people despite their beliefs. Why focus on negative energy? Where is it getting anyone? I'll tell you where they are paranoid, scared, and untrusting and are part of the problem, not the solution. But if you practice love, compassion, and caring and it's a whole different story.
I do not fear walking down the street or fear my neighbor. Why? Because I believe in God and He will protect me. If I am to die, that is his bidding. But all this talk about the horror in the world is so draining. I see more good in the world than bad.
I guess though people see what they want to, just like we have here. You want to see gloom and doom, then that is what you get. Want to see love then open your eyes and you will see it.
Convince me the world is such a horrible place, please do! But what would be the point?
Posts: 12 | From: Mount Joy, Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2006
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
We live in a world today where wickedness is considered the norm. and where compassion and kindness is considered wicked.
Now think about the above statement I have just made. It is so sad that a statement like this can be made and it ring so true to so many hearts.
In one of the other sections of this message board I read a story about a man and a woman, husband and wife that was arrested for preaching the word of God. This makes me so sick when I read about this.
Why is it considered fine for parents to murder their children through abortion, but it is not ok to preach the bible in public? (NOTE: At the time that most abortions take place, despite what the doctors say, the nerve endings have developed enough in the fetus to feel pain. Now imagine if you can what it would feel like to have a metal rod stabbed through your skull and have your mind sucked out through it? Think about it)
Why is it wrong to teach the idea that there is a benevolent creator in the public school system, but it is ok to teach a theory of evolution? (NOTE: Isn’t it funny how Darwin himself, the creator of this theory didn’t even believe in this thought?)
I have heard so many Christians make this statement: “I want to do something about the problems of the world today, but I am just one person who can’t make a difference. Everyone else will not stand with me.”
Well I seem to remember a little boy named David who had a sling and a stone who killed a giant that everyone else was afraid to fight.
The Story of David and Goliath is a perfect answer for a person who makes the above statement. Yes you are one person. But God can take anyone or anything and use it to his/her benefit. Now I am not saying that we should start a revolt. But I am saying that it is time we as Christians start taking a stand and using our most powerful weapon that God gave to us against the forces of Darkness.
But what weapon is this? Well the answer is this: The weapon that we can use is TRUTH! Let these mislead children be told the truth. If they still choose to walk away from the truth then that is between them and God.
But we need to stop being so afraid to hurt someone’s feelings. We need to stop being so afraid to that what we are about to say is politically incorrect. We need to start spreading the truth.
Once the truth starts to make it’s way out nothing can stop it from spreading its light on the earth.
In closing I would like to re state that we need to start taking a stand. We need to start spreading the truth no matter how hard it is. We need to tell our Mothers, our fathers, our brothers, and sisters. Everyone!
We need to spread the Word.
We need to give hope to those who have none.
We need to be a light that shines for the whole world to see.
Amen
--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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