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Topic: Predestination....
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J4Jesus
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posted
DoGon...yes, you are like most people in the world when it comes to Israel.
Yes Israel has become a nation AGAIN.
If you would read the Bible, you'd know that Israel was and still is God's Chosen Nation.
Jews are not coming back from all over the world, they are migrating back to their homeland.
And I KNEW you'd say all that about the Disease, and Earthquakes, etc...
The significance of them is the Amount of these that Is ever increasing as the years go by.
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doGon
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posted
TB125, do you really think that the purpose for the billions of billions of stars there are, is to help humans with navigation? Its becoming more and more apparent to me, that one of the main reasons for creating god is so that we dont have to feel so small, insignificant, and alone in this gigantic universe....anyways....
quote:
The evidence for God's existence is all around you. I pray that you are not too "dead" or "blind" or "hardened" to see it.
Ok, so you look around at the universe, and you see evidence for a god. I completely understand that you would come to that conclusion, and it isnt an entirely irrational conclusion. I, personally, dont see a need for a god or higher intelligence, to create this universe (but i dont want to get into my reasons for not seeing God when I look around, maybe another topic for another day). What I dont understand is how you can look around, see a god, and then actually identify which god created it., and actually give personality traits, and a theology to this God....please answer that for me.
J4Jesus,
quote:
All The Earthquakes, Wars, Disease, Christians Being Persecuted, ISRAEL Becoming A Nation Again.
ALL THESE, Jesus Said Would Happen And They ARE Happening.
Not sure of what you mean by, "ISREAL Becoming a Nation Again". maybe a Bible verse that supports this?....
And as for the rest of the things (earthquakes, wars, disease...), do you really think those things haven't been going on since the time of the NT, and before the NT was written. And if your going to come back with 'well, they're happening much more now', all these things happen at different, varying frequencies sometimes happening not very often, sometimes happening very often...Every generation since the NT was written, has said with absolute certainty that Jesus was coming back in their lifetime, but to no avail. What's the difference now???
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J4Jesus
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posted
TB125, that was some good thoughts there man.
DoGon...Do You WANT To Believe In God, And I Mean The God Of The Bible?
That's What It Really Comes Down To.
If You Want To Believe In Jesus And Want To Stop Sinning...And You Know What Sin Is...All Those Things That You Know Are Wrong.
We As Christains Are NOT Here To MAKE YOU BELIEVE.
It's NOT For Our Benefit That You Believe In Jesus...But Your Own.
You Gotta Choose Man. Start Reading The Bible And Praying. It's Hard I Know, I've Been There Myself But You Gotta Start Man.
Look At The World In Which We Live, Everything Jesus Said About The End Of The World Is Coming True.
All The Earthquakes, Wars, Disease, Christians Being Persecuted, ISRAEL Becoming A Nation Again.
ALL THESE, Jesus Said Would Happen And They ARE Happening.
If Those Don't Help You Believe, NOTHING Will.
C'mon Man, BELIEVE! There Is Only ONE TRUTH...JESUS.
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TB125
Advanced Member
Member # 2450
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posted
DoGon,
You answer my question with this statement: quote:
if tonight the stars miraculously re-alligned themselves to spell out 'God is real.' and everyone else saw the same thing, then I would then believe in God.
I respond by indicating that God is probably not going to rearrange the stars to give you a personal message regarding his existence!
I call your attention to the fact that God has already arranged the stars into such positions and patterns that thousands of sailors and other travelers have been able to use them to navigate their positions and journeys across the trackless oceans for centuries. Astronauts apparently use them to calculate their positions and journeys in space as they travel back and forth to a space station or to the moon in the trackless expanse of space.
This starry space that you can observe is so well organized that millions of people throughout centuries of history have been able to set watches that accurately mark the movements of our planet around its star as well as other solar phenomenon, yet you apparently don't even believe in a "designer" for what you and millions of other human beings can observe every day.
I'll ask you again to "be reasonable" "be rational". Read the accounts of two other aetheists who sought answers to their questions and objections regarding the existence of God: Lee Strobel in his book "The Case for Faith" and Josh McDowell "Evidence that Demands a Verdict". The evidence for God's existence is all around you. I pray that you are not too "dead" or "blind" or "hardened" to see it.
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Bob
Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003
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doGon
unregistered
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posted
oops. there's a sentence in that last post that occurs twice. editing mistake. sorry.
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doGon
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quote:
I haven't asked you whether or not God knows what it would take to "make you believe". I've asked you if you know what God would have to do to you personally to "convince you that he exists" or for you to "acknowledge his existence".
Any piece of empirical evidence that could be tested and documented by other people (not a dream or hallucination that no one else sees), and that has all other explanations ruled out, other than it being evidence for the christian God. Not a dream or a hallucination that no one else sees. For example, if tonight the stars miraculously re-alligned themselves to spell out 'God is real.' and everyone else saw the same thing, then I would then believe in God. But I still wouldnt know which god to believe in, because the message didnt refer to a specific god...If the stars read 'I am God. I am here. Jesus is my Son.' then i would become a christian.
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TB125
Advanced Member
Member # 2450
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posted
DoGon,
Once again you haven't given me a straight answer to my question but another of your irrational arguments as in your following statement: quote:
God will know exactly what it will take for me to believe in him, and He will put that into action, thus making me believe...
Now, I think we can all agree that non-christians have died (that is, have died without believeing in the christian God, and thus going to Hell, if the religion is true). This therefore means, God either doesnt want everyone to believe, or he wants everyone to believe but doesnt have the power to make that so. or the third option, God isn't real...
So, the four scenarios are....
1.) The first one (with all the IF's)
2.) God doesnt want everyone to believe
3.) God wants everyone to believe but doesnt have the power to make it so
4.) the christian God isnt real
Since we know that people have died as non-believers, I can eliminate #1. If #2 is true, then God is basically a jerk, and I wouldnt want to worship him anyways. If #3 is true, then why call him God? For me, that leaves #4....
I haven't asked you whether or not God knows what it would take to "make you believe". I've asked you if you know what God would have to do to you personally to "convince you that he exists" or for you to "acknowledge his existence".
Your series of "if" statements is totally irrational, so your assumptions are all wrong. In the first place they don't acknowledge any human responsibility for one's "free will", for one's choice to believe in "faith". They only give God one option, to make everyone believe, which is contrary to His will.
You have questioned God's power to make "everyone" believe, but that would not be in keeping with His respect for the "free will" with which He endowed us in creation and His own qualities of love that should not be compelled, as with programmed robots.
Once again I would like a straight personal answer from you. Forget about "everyone" else; just tell me what God has to do to you personally to convince you that He exists? Forget all of the "if" assumptions.
In regard to why I don't believe in the existence of Allah, this god has never done anything to reveal himself to me or to humanity in its objective historic events. As far as I know, Allah is the creation of one prophet, Muhammad, who developed the creed of Islam for his Arabian brethren during the later decades of his life before his death in 632 A.D. Allah has done nothing to enable me to be as "good" as I know that I should be, and this god has certainly not done anything to remove the record of my imperfections and "sins" that would bar me from his presence.
I don't want to debate the pros and cons of Islam. I only a want a straight personal answer to my question. "Be reasonable", "be rational" in your response.
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Bob
Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003
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doGon
unregistered
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posted
ahar ---
quote:
If you would believe them without evidence on the existence of the Higgs Boson or neutralinos, why do you have a different expectations of evidence for God? How is this different for you and as TB125 said, what evidence do you need to see?
extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. based on what we already know in the field of physics, and because of the circumstantial and mathematical evidence we have those particles you mentioned, it isnt a huge leap to hypothesize them....Also add in the fact that whether the Higgs Boson or the neutralino exist or not, has no effect on my life whatsoever.
Things are quite different for a claim about a god or gods, as I am sure you can understand. Again, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
TB125 ---
quote:
I think that I have asked you this before, but I'll do it again.
You have asked it before and i answered it, but ill answer again....
quote:
what will god have to do to you personally to convince you that he exists? I can put it this way: how must god reveal himself directly to you in order for you to acknowledge his existence?
You have to presuppose a lot of 'If's' and different scenerios to answer this question:
IF God is real, and
IF God wants me to believe in Him, and
IF God is all-powerful, and
IF God is all-knowing, then....
God will know exactly what it will take for me to believe in him, and He will put that into action, thus making me believe...
Now, I think we can all agree that non-christians have died (that is, have died without believeing in the christian God, and thus going to Hell, if the religion is true). This therefore means, God either doesnt want everyone to believe, or he wants everyone to believe but doesnt have the power to make that so. or the third option, God isn't real...
So, the four scenarios are....
1.) The first one (with all the IF's)
2.) God doesnt want everyone to believe
3.) God wants everyone to believe but doesnt have the power to make it so
4.) the christian God isnt real
Since we know that people have died as non-believers, I can eliminate #1. If #2 is true, then God is basically a jerk, and I wouldnt want to worship him anyways. If #3 is true, then why call him God? For me, that leaves #4....
I will throw the question back at you (maybe helping you understand my rationality for my answer to your question)...
what will Allah have to do to you personally to convince you that he exists? I can put it this way: how must Allah reveal himself directly to you in order for you to acknowledge his existence?
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ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by doGon:
[QB]
Let me back up a little though, cause I don't think I've said this yet. I don't care what you guys believe. You can believe there is a pink elephant in your pocket, I don't care. What I do care about is when you try and push those beliefs on other people (I am in no way claiming that that is what you guys, personally, are doing, before you jump on me for that)...
Belief is a strange thing - it can happen on several levels and depends on the context into which you put it. Take the example of the Higgs Boson - cold, hard mathematical theory predicts that is should exist, but no evidence has ever been found. Yet physicists believe that it does enough to spend millions on large hadron colliders to try and find evidence. The mathematical theory for the Higgs Boson however is built on other theories, assumptions and some empirical evidence. It is by no means certain that it exists and there are other competing theories out there. This is a level of belief based on some evidence.
There are other parts of quantum physics that rely on far shakier evidence than the Higgs Boson. Belief in God is almost provable compared to neutralinos. At least we'll all get to prove outselves right or wrong when we die - it's unlikely that neutralinos will ever be detected. And yet physicists are willing to stake their repuations and millons of dollars on the fact that these particals exist, based on no more than some circumstantial evidence. Yet, if a physicist was to talk to you about these particals with a confidence that they did exist you would believe him (or her) without being given any evidence at all.
The people involved in this work are clever, and yet their human ability to believe in something without evidence is part of their work. If you would believe them without evidence on the existence of the Higgs Boson or neutralinos, why do you have a different expectations of evidence for God? How is this different for you and as TB125 said, what evidence do you need to see?
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Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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J4Jesus
unregistered
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by doGon:
texasgrandma and I have done nothing but go around in circles and I was just getting frustrated, but I apologize.
Well then stop.
We're CHRISTIANS on a CHRISTIAN messageboard. Are you trying to make us not believe? Sounds like you must have a relgion called "atheism" which you would like to preach.
Do you just wanna make us look foolish and you feel better for being right? Man, us Christians already went through all this. We've been where you are, debating, questioning, finding out if The Bible is really true or not.
Now it's your turn. If you just wanna question and question and not get anywhere, what are you still here for?
Think about it.
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TB125
Advanced Member
Member # 2450
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posted
DoGon,
You have been all over this forum with your atheistic questions and comments. Nothing anyone has shared with you seems to get you to question your own philosophic assumptions. You continue to challenge us to "be reasonable" and to "be rational", but I don't see you doing the same. You debate the topic of predestination while you apparently don't even believe in a god. That seems like foolishness to me.
I think that I have asked you this before, but I'll do it again. Here is a simple question to which I would like a straight answer from you: what will god have to do to you personally to convince you that he exists? I can put it this way: how must god reveal himself directly to you in order for you to acknowledge his existence? I'm probably not the only viewer who will be interested in your answer to this question.
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Bob
Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003
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Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
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posted
Pro 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
Mat 7:6 — Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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doGon
unregistered
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posted
texasgrandma and I have done nothing but go around in circles and I was just getting frustrated, but I apologize.
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by doGon:
Ok...Bye. *watching as texasgrandma crawls back into her warm, comfy nutshell of religion and blind faith.*...pity
doGon,
You are welcome to debate on this BBS, but you are not welcome to talk like this to our members. Any more of this type of statements and I will ban you. And this is not debatable.
David Campbell
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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doGon
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posted
quote:
I'm gonna tell you something that you probably won't understand but it's not like any of our small minds can really Fathom God.
Isaiah 55:8
8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the LORD.
God does not think nor act like we do or how we THINK He or anyone should act.
Our small minds cannot fathom God?? Seems to me you think you have a pretty good handle on God (i.e. the Bible). If we really have no clue when it comes to God, and we really accept this 'fact', then there wouldnt be religions that have specific claims about God and His intentions/feelings/reality.
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TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
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posted
J4Jesus
very well put.
thank you.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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J4Jesus
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by doGon:
J4Jesus, you dont think we have free will if the christian God is real? That's a first....I agree with you, but ive never met a christian who didnt thin we had free will.
although, I thought we were suppose to chose through our free will whether to believe in God or not...
quote:
And the reason God created those who would never believe in Him is so that He can use HIS people to witness to them, even if they don't believe.
This is so they will not have an excuse because it's not like people NEVER told them about Jesus.
God uses those who will never believe in Him as much as He uses His Own People for His Purposes.
But, if these un-believers are never going to believe, and God knows this (if we pre-suppose predestination), then why have believers witness to them??
Hey man.
I'm gonna tell you something that you probably won't understand but it's not like any of our small minds can really Fathom God.
What seems as STRANGE to you about God, this is the Bible's answer, we're not here to PROVE God with SCIENCE, that defeats the Purpose of Faith.
Isaiah 55:8
8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the LORD.
God does not think nor act like we do or how we THINK He or anyone should act.
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doGon
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posted
quote:
Normall I don't feed trolls, but for you I'll make an exception...
I know I probably come off as a troll a lot of times, and technically I probably am a troll, but I don't have a 'troll's' intentions. I am really looking for a dialogue, not just to attack your message board here....
quote:
Cold, hard, indisputable and complete evidence for the existence of God....it doesn't exist. That's why religion is belief and faith.
Which is why I don't believe it, and why I don't think you guys should either.
Let me back up a little though, cause I don't think I've said this yet. I don't care what you guys believe. You can believe there is a pink elephant in your pocket, I don't care. What I do care about is when you try and push those beliefs on other people (I am in no way claiming that that is what you guys, personally, are doing, before you jump on me for that)...
quote:
God fulfils the question 'why?' when we look at life and the universe.
You think...You hope it fulfills the question 'why?'. I completely agree with you when you said we have a desire for believing in something more, but I dont think that was 'placed' in us by a higher power. I think its simply a result of the reality we are living in. On this small blue planet among millions of billions of stars, and millions of billions of galaxies each with their own group of billions of stars...
and maybe there really is 'something more', i dont know. but if there is, we have zero idea of its nature, and maybe we can never know about it....
quote:
Quantum flux, the minute difference in weight between the Top and Bottom quarks and random chance just don't really cut the mustard that that question.
Science doesn't answer the 'why?' question, it answers the 'how?' question. Science doesnt even claim to be able to answer the 'why?' question when it comes to the universe, but that doesnt mean it couldnt answer it in the future...
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ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by doGon:
More with the non-applicable anologies. I love how you guys think a good analogy is evidence for God...
Hi doGon
Normall I don't feed trolls, but for you I'll make an exception...
Cold, hard, indisputable and complete evidence for the existence of God....it doesn't exist. That's why religion is belief and faith.
Humans have an inbuilt need for belief in something beyond that which we can experience with the five senses. Every human culture ancient & modern has a belief system in some way. It's almost as if it's been placed there....
God fulfils the question 'why?' when we look at life and the universe. Quantum flux, the minute difference in weight between the Top and Bottom quarks and random chance just don't really cut the mustard that that question.
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Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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doGon
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posted
quote:
A preacher said yesterday, there is a time to stop speaking.
...that's ironic.
quote:
You do not want to know the truth.
I believe I already have the truth.
quote:
You want someone to tell you that you can live like you want to and still go to Heaven.
No I don't. I dont believe there is a heaven.
quote:
I cannot do that, so I bid you goodbye and wish you a very happy life because eternity will be not so good for you unless you repent.
Ok...Bye. *watching as texasgrandma crawls back into her warm, comfy nutshell of religion and blind faith.*...pity
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
A preacher said yesterday, there is a time to stop speaking. You do not want to know the truth. You want someone to tell you that you can live like you want to and still go to Heaven. I cannot do that, so I bid you goodbye and wish you a very happy life because eternity will be not so good for you unless you repent.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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doGon
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posted
More with the non-applicable anologies. I love how you guys think a good analogy is evidence for God...
If you really did have the cure to cancer you would be able to test it and see that people really do get better with your treatment, while other treatments do nothing for the cancer patients. Now, you walk up to this person in your anology and give them a choice of your treatment or someone elses. If your's is the true treatment you will have evidence for this...You will say to the patient "my treatment has cured 99% of cancer patients completely of their cancer. This other treatment has only cured 2% of cancer patients." If the person you approached chooses the other guys' treatment, well then, they are an idiot...
Now...If you take the analogy that you gave (with no evidence behind the cancer cure)...Say you and three other people walk up to someone with cancer. Each of the four of you tell the patient your respective treatment is the right cure and tell the person to make a choice without giving actual evidence, then the person has to chose at random. Presuming one of the four even is the correct cure, he has a one in four chance of being cured. However, doing this, telling people to chose something that you claim is the cure to their problems without giving any supporting evidence is irresponsible, especially if you (God) has the evidence for the cure (religion) but still refuses to present it when there are countless other cures (religions) to chose from.
Now, you guys think christianity DOES have evidence for it (Bible, faith..etc), however, other religions use the same evidence, so we're back to the beginning again, a random choice...If the christian God is true, and he is leaving people's salvation or damnation up to a random choice by that person, then that is no God I want to worship....
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
Say I have the cure for cancer. Me, and three other people walk up to a person offering them a choice of which medication to take and they choose the wrong one. Will they die for their mistake? yes,
We can choose salvation, it is our choice. If God chooses for us there is no free will.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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doGon
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posted
When the topic is omniscience, using the parent-child anology just does not work, sorry....you have no where near omniscience towards your children and what they are going to do. God supposedly does towards us, however. The paradox that occurs with predestination, an omniscient god, and free will of that God and his creation makes it pretty obvious to me that the christian worldview is just not possible.
quote:
I believe that we should wittness to everyone. If they reject, then they won't be able to say they did not know the truth.
Ok...a non-believer is walking down a street. You walk up to him and witness to him. He continues walking when he is then witnessed to by a Mormon. Then he is witnessed to by a Muslim, then a Hindu, and then a Buddhist. He is witnessed to by all of the thousands of religions of the world. When he gets to the end of the street, he dies. He meets the christian God in heaven. God asks the person why he didnt believe when he was witnessed to and told the truth. The person responds with "how was I suppose to know which one was the truth?"
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
Knowing that your child is going to break the rules you set, does not take away their free will. When my children were little, I knew which child would likely break a certain rule. They had the choice, to obey or not to obey. The fact that I knew them well enough to know in advance what they would do, did not take away their freedom to choose to do right or wrong. I believe that we should wittness to everyone. If they reject, then they won't be able to say they did not know the truth.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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doGon
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posted
J4Jesus, you dont think we have free will if the christian God is real? That's a first....I agree with you, but ive never met a christian who didnt thin we had free will.
although, I thought we were suppose to chose through our free will whether to believe in God or not...
quote:
And the reason God created those who would never believe in Him is so that He can use HIS people to witness to them, even if they don't believe.
This is so they will not have an excuse because it's not like people NEVER told them about Jesus.
God uses those who will never believe in Him as much as He uses His Own People for His Purposes.
But, if these un-believers are never going to believe, and God knows this (if we pre-suppose predestination), then why have believers witness to them??
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J4Jesus
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by doGon:
So, if God has our fates predestined (i.e. those who will be believe, and those who wont), then why even create the people who he knows will go through life never believing, and then end up in hell for all of eternity? Why create them?
And another thing...If were are predestined by God, then we don't have free will....
Exactly. According to the Bible, it was God who determined a person's life before they were ever born.
It just SEEMS that we have Free Will because it is US that are living at our lives.
But as long as you have the Desire to believe in Jesus, you're in good hands.
And the reason God created those who would never believe in Him is so that He can use HIS people to witness to them, even if they don't believe.
This is so they will not have an excuse because it's not like people NEVER told them about Jesus.
God uses those who will never believe in Him as much as He uses His Own People for His Purposes.
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doGon
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posted
So, if God has our fates predestined (i.e. those who will be believe, and those who wont), then why even create the people who he knows will go through life never believing, and then end up in hell for all of eternity? Why create them?
And another thing...If were are predestined by God, then we don't have free will....
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Bandit
Advanced Member
Member # 3643
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chaffin:
What are some of your thoughts on predestination? I am just curious as to how you guys feel about it.
Hello Chaffin,
Predestination is one of those “controversial” topics. People either have no strong opinion, or they have a very strong opinion. And those with very strong opinions can be miles apart. I am one of those with a very strong opinion - and it is miles from what most think of when they think “predestination”. I believe that God has predestined those who choose to have faith to become heirs of His kingdom. This should not be taken to mean that God chooses who will believe and who will not believe. My understanding of predestination is that God has a predetermined plan for those who choose faith. So what I believe is far different than what the reformed theologian would believe. And you?
Bandit
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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Eden
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Predestination? What is that?
Predetermined by God to end up exactly where God intended me to end up?
I think God knows ahead of time who will accept Him in time, but on the other hand, the Bible says that God CHOSE us, that we DID NOT chose Him:
John 15
19 If you were of the world, the world would love his own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
Proverbs 1:29
Because they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD.
But we all ended up being equal sinners, so God had a problem. One of the reasons why Jesus came to earth was to divide sinners whom the Lord could choose and sinners whom the Lord would NOT choose.
The test was, If they will listen to my Son, them will I choose of the sinners who are all equally sinners. And who of the sinners would end up choosing the Son became dependent on what family of sinners we were born into.
Some babies were born into families of sinners with very hardened hearts, who were very removed from believing in Jesus.
Other babies were born into families of sinners who already believed in Jesus, and babies were born into many variations of families of sinners, and then, whosoever ended u choosing Jesus from their respective family type of sinners, those the Lord ended up choosing.
Because the Lord set up the test, it became predestined that those who would be able to believe the test, would believe it.
And these, God of course foreknew, so in that sense they who believed and believe are all predestined, by the type of test which was Jesus on the cross for our sins and Jesus rising again from the grave.
The equal sinners who could not and cannot believe that, will “simply” not be chosen; they failed the test and are not chosen, and those are destroyed.
Be blessed.
Eden
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Chaffin
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What are some of your thoughts on predestination? I am just curious as to how you guys feel about it.
Posts: 27 | From: Milton, WV. | Registered: Nov 2006
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