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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 


talk about cults!

Berean Bible Society

This Web site is home of the Berean Searchlight, the foremost ultradispensationalist journal since 1940.

This group was founded by Cornelius Stam and J. C. O'Hair, two Chicago-area ultradispensationalists whose ministries peaked in the '40s and '50s respectively. Their distinctive teaching is that the apostle Paul inaugurated a new dispensation of grace, unveiling a brand-new gospel and (according to some) a whole new way of salvation.

Paul's teaching is thus set against the rest of the New Testament and interpreted in a way that renders most of Jesus' teaching utterly irrelevant to the present age.

Thus the Word of God is mangled in the name of Bereanism. Though no longer the force it was in the mid-20th century, this organization has stayed alive by adopting the cultish strategy of targeting untaught lay people to whom this bizarre hermeneutical approach (buttressed with selective proof-texting) appears deep and sophisticated.

BEWARE OF HYPER DISPENSATIONALISM

“Hyper-dispensationalism” is characterized by making a sharp division between the ministry of Christ and that of the Apostles, and of further dividing Paul’s teaching from that of Peter and the other apostles. Some of the well-known teachers of hyper- or ultra-dispensationalism are E.W. Bullinger, Cornelius Stam, J.C. O’Hair, Charles Welch, Otis Sellers, A.E. Knoch, and Charles Baker. There are many varieties of hyper-dispensationalism, but the following are some of the characteristics:

(1) The four Gospels are entirely Jewish and contain no direct teaching for the churches. Yet, the writer of Hebrews said that the same gospel of salvation that was preached by the apostles was preached by Christ (Heb. 2:3-4). Though we know that Christ presented Himself to the Jewish nation and we do understand that there are differences between the gospels and the epistles, yet in Hebrews 2 we do not see a sharp delineation between the gospel preached by Christ and that preached by the apostles who followed. In fact, the Gospel of John presents exactly the same gospel as that preached by Paul. Further, 1 Timothy 6:3 shows that Christ spoke directly to the church age.

(2) The book of Acts is also largely Jewish. Hyper-dispensationalists commonly believe that after Christ was rejected by Israel in the Gospels, that they were given a second chance to receive the kingdom in the first part of the book of Acts. Thus, they teach that there are two different churches viewed in the book of Acts, and the true Pauline church only started after Acts 9, 13, or 28. The church mentioned in the first part of Acts allegedly refers to a different church than that of Paul’s prison epistles. The earlier “church” in Acts is simply an aspect of the kingdom preached in the Gospels. Most of the book of Acts is therefore discounted as a guideline for the churches today. Yet, at the very end of the book of Acts we still find Paul preaching about the kingdom (Acts 28:23). In fact, he was still preaching about it in his epistles! (2 Thess. 1:5; 2 Tim. 4:1). While we can see an obvious transition in the book of Acts, and not everything in Acts continues to be in effect in the churches today (e.g., tongues speaking and apostolic sign gifts) this does not mean that there are different gospels and different churches in various parts of Acts. The book of Acts is a book about and for the churches. The pattern of the first church as described in Acts 2 is the pattern for the churches throughout the age, except for the temporary and unique aspects pertaining to the coming of the Holy Spirit and the apostolic miracles.

(3) The mysteries given to Paul are a different revelation from that given to Peter and the other Apostles, and only Paul’s writings are directly for the church today. The other epistles, such as Hebrews, James, 1 and 2 Peter, and the epistles of John are not for us today in a direct sense. Yet, Paul himself said that the church is built upon the “apostleS” plural and not merely upon himself (Eph. 2:20) and the mysteries were “revealed unto his holy apostleS and prophetS” (Eph. 3:5) and not to him alone. Peter also referred to the writings of Paul and made no distinction between Paul’s teaching and the teaching of the other apostles (2 Pet. 3:1-2, 15-16). Peter said Paul wrote to the same people and preached the same message. Though we know that Paul was the special apostle of the Gentiles and he was given unique revelations about the church as the body of Christ, his revelations in no way contradict the revelations given in the General Epistles (Hebrews - Jude).

(4) The gospel preached by Peter in the early part of the book of Acts is different from the gospel preached by Paul. Yet, there is actually no difference between the gospel preached by Peter and that which Paul preached. Peter preached salvation through the blood of Christ (1 Pet. 1:2), salvation by God’s free mercy (1 Peter 1:3), the new birth (1 Peter 1:3), eternal security because of the resurrection of Christ (1 Pet. 1:3-4). Acts 15 plainly states that all of the apostles, including Peter and Paul, agreed on the gospel. Paul plainly said in 1 Cor. 15:11-14 that they all preached the same gospel. Even in Acts 2, Peter was preaching the gospel of the grace of Christ rather than a “kingdom gospel.” He preached Christ -- His crucifixion (Acts 2:23), resurrection (Acts 2:24-32), ascension and Lordship (Acts 2:33-36). He preached that the people should repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38). This is not a “kingdom gospel.” Further, Paul states in Galatians 1, that anyone who preached a different gospel was cursed. If Peter were truly preaching a different gospel in those days, he would have fallen under this curse.

(5) Baptism and the Lord’s Supper were given to Paul before he received the church age mysteries; thus they are not for the churches today. Hyper-dispensationalists differ on this point. Some accept both baptism and the Lord’s Supper; some reject water baptism and the Lord’s Supper altogether; while others reject only baptism and keep the Lord’s Supper.

(6) According to hyper-dispensationalism there are different ways of salvation in the Old Testament and during the Tribulation. Peter Ruckman, for example, teaches that men were saved by faith plus works in the Old Testament and that they will be saved by faith plus works in the Tribulation and by works alone in the Millennium. In Millions Disappear: Fact or Fiction? Ruckman says: “If the Lord comes and you remain behind, then start working like a madman to get to heaven, because you’re going to have to. ... You must keep the Ten Commandments (all of them, Ecclesiastes 12:13), keep the Golden Rule (1 John 3:10), give your money to the poor, get baptized, take up your cross, hold out to the end of the Tribulation, wait for Jesus Christ to show up at the Battle of Armageddon, and be prepared to die for what you believe. In the Tribulation you cannot be saved by grace alone, like you could before the Rapture.” In fact, Romans 4:1-8 plainly states that Abraham before the law and David under the law were saved by faith without works. This is the only plan of salvation God ever has had and ever will have--salvation by grace alone through faith alone based upon the shed blood of Jesus Christ alone. The Old Testament saints did not know what the New Testament saint knows, but Romans 4 makes it plain that they were saved by faith without works. Like Abraham, they believed God and it was counted unto them for righteousness. Those who are saved in the Tribulation will also be saved through faith in God’s Word and by the blood of Jesus Christ and through this alone (Rev. 7:14).

Harry A. Ironside wrote a helpful little booklet about this problem called “Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth: Ultra-Dispensationalism Examined in the Light of Holy Scripture.” He deals largely with the error of Bullingerism. This is available on the Internet at....

http://www.biblelineministries.org/onlinebooks/wrongly-dividing-the-word-of-truth/

this info found at...

http://www.wayoflife.org/files/ff92e8f95e2e0887d2468156498ba416-163.html
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Not true.

http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/1011392439.html
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
yes true Wildb has many time posted articles stating facts mentioned by David Cloud's article......

one very wrong teaching is...there are different ways of salvation in the Old Testament !

there is only one way of salvation taught in scripture....Faith in the Blood

Old Testament Saints looked forward to the Messiah...

New Testament Saints look back at the Messiah....
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
becauseHElives

Did you read the link I provided? Even if you just scan over it you'll see that the Berean Bible Society was mistakenly lumped together with others who teach ultradispensationalism, but they don't teach that themselves.

You said, "one very wrong teaching is...there are different ways of salvation in the Old Testament."

This is what Stam says:

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Now we believe that the principles of God are eternal and unchanging. They could not change. God could not change His standards; men have always been, and men always will be, saved only by grace through faith, essentially, and could only be saved on the basis of the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ. The sacrifices that were demanded for atonement in Old Testament times did not in themselves save: "It is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sin." They served only as an expression of the faith of the individuals who brought them. CORNELIUS R. STAM:

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Did you read the link I provided?

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you and others have labeled me a cult....I am not a cult ,neither is what I believe cultist...

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I believe walking after the Spirit and obeying the Commandment from the heart are the same thing....

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The Berean Bible Society, sometimes called the Grace Movement, is a hyper-dispensational FALSE/CULTIC BELIEF system that was started by Pastor Ohair in Chicago and Pastor Baker as author.

Not believing in "minor" doctrines (like hell, baptism, etc) this group simply states that all of the Bible other than a few books of Paul (prison epistles, pastoral epistles) is NOT for us today. It redefines the Bible, the Gospel, Baptism, Kingdom etc)

Do NOT confuse this cult with the Berean Fellowship denomination that is mostly "baptistic" and I know many of the pastors personally. Their doctrinal statement would be identical to many Baptist churches.

[The use of "heresy" or "cult" is very limited on the BB so we don't call each other names like other boards! But like the Adventist, Mormons, Millennial Exclusions, etc, we do list cultic beliefs and label them as 100% in error.]
__________________
Dr Bob Griffin
"Jesus knows me, this I love"

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talk about cults!

Berean Bible Society

This Web site is home of the Berean Searchlight, the foremost ultradispensationalist journal since 1940.

This group was founded by Cornelius Stam and J. C. O'Hair, two Chicago-area ultradispensationalists whose ministries peaked in the '40s and '50s respectively. Their distinctive teaching is that the apostle Paul inaugurated a new dispensation of grace, unveiling a brand-new gospel and (according to some) a whole new way of salvation.

Paul's teaching is thus set against the rest of the New Testament and interpreted in a way that renders most of Jesus' teaching utterly irrelevant to the present age.

Thus the Word of God is mangled in the name of Bereanism. Though no longer the force it was in the mid-20th century, this organization has stayed alive by adopting the cultish strategy of targeting untaught lay people to whom this bizarre hermeneutical approach (buttressed with selective proof-texting) appears deep and sophisticated.

BEWARE OF HYPER DISPENSATIONALISM

“Hyper-dispensationalism” is characterized by making a sharp division between the ministry of Christ and that of the Apostles, and of further dividing Paul’s teaching from that of Peter and the other apostles. Some of the well-known teachers of hyper- or ultra-dispensationalism are E.W. Bullinger, Cornelius Stam, J.C. O’Hair, Charles Welch, Otis Sellers, A.E. Knoch, and Charles Baker. There are many varieties of hyper-dispensationalism, but the following are some of the characteristics:

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Looks like your right Brother Dale..
Berean Society is a cult..

False teachings by C. Stam, and JC O'Hair;

more i study them the worse it gets, and the more it looks like a CULT!








 

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Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :
 
But, Carol, you don't get it. Every Preacher is a false Gospel Preacher, according to Barry and BecauseHeLives, who doesn't preach that you have to go to Church on Saturday and keep the Old Testament Laws. Paul would be on their case if he were alive today for preaching the same false Gospel that some of the Christian Jews did in His day: becoming Jews first and then Christians.
betty
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
I decided to stay out of this. This is WildB's opportunity to defend his beliefs.
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 

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Originally posted by WildB:
yes thats if worms have knees!

BRING THEM 2 me!

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Originally posted by barrykind:
Brother becausehelives states:


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talk about cults!

Berean Bible Society

This Web site is home of the Berean Searchlight, the foremost ultradispensationalist journal since 1940.

This group was founded by Cornelius Stam and J. C. O'Hair, two Chicago-area ultradispensationalists whose ministries peaked in the '40s and '50s respectively. Their distinctive teaching is that the apostle Paul inaugurated a new dispensation of grace, unveiling a brand-new gospel and (according to some) a whole new way of salvation.

Paul's teaching is thus set against the rest of the New Testament and interpreted in a way that renders most of Jesus' teaching utterly irrelevant to the present age.

Thus the Word of God is mangled in the name of Bereanism. Though no longer the force it was in the mid-20th century, this organization has stayed alive by adopting the cultish strategy of targeting untaught lay people to whom this bizarre hermeneutical approach (buttressed with selective proof-texting) appears deep and sophisticated.

BEWARE OF HYPER DISPENSATIONALISM

“Hyper-dispensationalism” is characterized by making a sharp division between the ministry of Christ and that of the Apostles, and of further dividing Paul’s teaching from that of Peter and the other apostles. Some of the well-known teachers of hyper- or ultra-dispensationalism are E.W. Bullinger, Cornelius Stam, J.C. O’Hair, Charles Welch, Otis Sellers, A.E. Knoch, and Charles Baker. There are many varieties of hyper-dispensationalism, but the following are some of the characteristics:


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Looks like your right Brother Dale..
Berean Society is a cult..

False teachings by C. Stam, and JC O'Hair;

more i study them the worse it gets, and the more it looks like a CULT!








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Bite me!

More FALSE WITNESSING

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But, Carol, you don't get it. Every Preacher is a false Gospel Preacher, according to Barry and BecauseHeLives, who doesn't preach that you have to go to Church on Saturday and keep the Old Testament Laws. Paul would be on their case if he were alive today for preaching the same false Gospel that some of the Christian Jews did in His day: becoming Jews first and then Christians.
betty

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Every Preacher is a false Gospel Preacher who doesn't preach that you have to go to Church on Saturday and keep the Old Testament Laws.

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wildb's above quote to B... Me; is unacceptable by bbs rules...it is offensive and shows ones heart..

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Flooding the entire forum with your ENOUGH SAID is just as offensive.

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why wouldyou say that Carol?

Im just finished with those conversations and will not post on those threads anymore..

I did not know that would be offensive.

sorry if that offended you...


 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
wildb states:

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17) The MYSTERY “Hid in God” was the divine purpose to make of Jew and Gentile a whole new thing, that is, the Church, which is Christ’s Body. The revelation of this Mystery was committed to Paul, and it is in his writings alone that we find the doctrine, position, walk and destiny of the Church.

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Excerpt posted with permission from the author.

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Originally posted by WildB:

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Originally posted by barrykind:
[QUOTE]


http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/bookmark.htm

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Interesting web sight

"Theologically, Phil is a committed Calvinist"

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/bio.htm

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This site that says the Berean Bible Society is bad theology also says that Charles Finney and Pentecostalism are really bad theology.
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
That would be very funny since Calvinism is strong on eternal security.

Actually, Phil Johnson's "Really Bad Theology" section seems to be opposed to most of what barry believes.
 

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Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :
 
You got that right, Carol. My Pastor is an Calvinist and is very much Eternal Security. Those who teach that you can lose your salvation forget the verse where those who go to hell that Jesus says "depart I never knew you" If you were once a Christian and lost your faith, that would either make God forgetful or mentally challenged, which He is NEITHER.
Jesus does not forget who His children are.

Jesus salvation gift to us eternal. It is not a gift that He gives us and takes back at will.
betty
 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 
Author: Rev. Noah Hutchings



After serving in churches for many years, Noah Hutchings became interested in why those who profess the name of Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord believe differently on hundreds of doctrinal issues, when it is so obvious that all cannot be right.

After an appraisal of the entire spectrum of denominational differences, the author reduces the many ecclesiastical variances to one common denominator: the Gospel of the Kingdom committed to Peter to preach to the Circumcision (Israel) and the Gospel of sovereign Grace committed to the Uncircumcision (Gentiles).

If you have ever wondered why there are so many denominations, sects, and cults, and why church memberships cannot agree on even simple doctrines like baptism, then you will want to read and study this book. This book is also used in seminaries, and thousands have been published.
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
wildb states:


quote:
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17) The MYSTERY “Hid in God” was the divine purpose to make of Jew and Gentile a whole new thing, that is, the Church, which is Christ’s Body. The revelation of this Mystery was committed to Paul, and it is in his writings alone that we find the doctrine, position, walk and destiny of the Church.


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This is one of the keys to the Berean Cult..
Check this out in detail....

This, if you check out C. Stams writings, and JC O'Hair, they do not take the gospels as for the church today, they do not take the writings of peter as for the church today..only Paul received the "mystery" for the church today..

Check it out, get your head out of the sand and check it out..beware.....

http://www.cnonline.net/~rkmiller/ultradispensationalism-ironside.htm
 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 
Stop being a false whitness berry.

Things that Differ by C. R. Stam (Paperback -


9 of 9 people found the following review helpful:
Best Book On Pauline Dispensationalism, January 13, 2005
By John Grove (Malibu, CA) - See all my reviews

This review is from: Things that differ: The fundamentals of dispensationalism
This book has been instrumental for years in opening the eyes of believers around the globe to the basic tenets of Mid-Acts dispensationalism and stands as the monumental book on "rightly dividing the word of truth" (II Tim 2:15).

I would also recommend other works by Stam:

1. Acts Dispensationally Considered.
2. The Controversy (now called "Holding Fast the Faithful Word")
3. Paul, His Apostleship and Message
4. Moses and Paul

His collection can be found through the Berean Bible Society
http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/

Caution: These books change lives.
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3 of 3 people found the following review helpful:
A Dispensationalists Handbook, November 2, 2008
By Kevin Ball - See all my reviews

This review is from: Things that Differ (Paperback)
I have read almost all of Stam's books and Things that Differ is his most important work as far as I'm concerned. No theological system is 100% correct and no one has all the answers but if you have lots of questions that never seem to get answered to your satisfaction I believe this book will leave you with the least amount unanswered. It's an easy read, it's full of verse references and it will answer your questions about subjects I hear people ask every day on the radio like, baptism, tithing, sign gifts, salvation and works/security etc... Give it a shot. It doesn't cost much and even if you wind up thinking Stam is crazy it will make you think and study to prove your own views are correct.
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7 of 10 people found the following review helpful:
You will finally understand the bible!!!, April 13, 2006
By Edward Cook "christianusedbooks" (Englewood, Co.) - See all my reviews

This review is from: Things that Differ (Paperback)
I read this book 25 years ago and have continued to recommend it to those who have been trying to understand the bible. The bible will not be a mystery anymore. It will help anyone understand why some christian speak in tongues, get water baptized, believe they can loose their salvation, believe they are going through the tribulation, etc. and others don't. Can this book do all that? Absolutely!!!!!!!!
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9 of 13 people found the following review helpful:
A Very Important Read, December 21, 2005
By Q. McAuley - See all my reviews

This review is from: Things that Differ (Paperback)
It is my opinion that Things That Differ is the most instructive book on Dispensationalism ever written, while being at the same time extraordinarily readable.

This book will help the reader understand the fundamentals of Dispensationalism (the teaching that God has dispensed His will in different ways, at different times, and for different reasons) and "rightly dividing the Word."

The necessity of accurately dividing the Bible (i.e. making the same distinctions in our study of the Bible that God made in His production of it) is at the heart of this book. The Author maintains that though the entire Bible is written for our learning, not all of it is addressed to us, nor written about us. This book helps illustrate the logical rules for interpretive study.

This book is sure to make your personal Bible study more profitable and meaningful.
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A Must Read!, July 16, 2009
By Peter Landowski (United States) - See all my reviews

This review is from: Things that Differ (Paperback)
There is so much confusion within the church today. This book helps put to rest many of these confusions. Next to the Bible, this book changed my life and my walk as a Christian. I highly recommend reading this book.
 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 

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Originally posted by WildB:
Author: Rev. Noah Hutchings



After serving in churches for many years, Noah Hutchings became interested in why those who profess the name of Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord believe differently on hundreds of doctrinal issues, when it is so obvious that all cannot be right.

After an appraisal of the entire spectrum of denominational differences, the author reduces the many ecclesiastical variances to one common denominator: the Gospel of the Kingdom committed to Peter to preach to the Circumcision (Israel) and the Gospel of sovereign Grace committed to the Uncircumcision (Gentiles).

If you have ever wondered why there are so many denominations, sects, and cults, and why church memberships cannot agree on even simple doctrines like baptism, then you will want to read and study this book. This book is also used in seminaries, and thousands have been published.

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another good read.....
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
C.R. Stam and J.C. O'Hair twist the Gospel to thier own interpetation...You know exactly well what they teach wildb.

Thats why you fight what Yahushua said when he said: If you love ME , keep my commandments,
Stam has twisted you into buying into the "Pauline" doctrine, and that when Yahushua made statements like that they were to the Jews only...

As do you believe that all 4 Gospels were to the "Jews" only and that since Paul went to the "third" heaven he brought back "new" revelation for the "dispensational" [church] of today...

Paul did not have a "private" interpetation my freind.....Scripture is not of private interpetation.
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/wronglytoc.html
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
Wrongly Diving the Word of Truth
Ultra-Dispensationalism Examined in the Light of the Holy Scriptures
By Dr. Harry Ironside

Concluding Remarks

IN closing this review of the system of teaching which we have had before us, I do not think it necessary to go into the questions at any length of Soul-sleeping and Annihilation (conditional immortality), or the opposite view of the final restoration of Universalism. As already mentioned, the followers of the late Dr. E. W. Bullinger have largely taken up with the first type of teaching in Great Britain; whereas in America many of them have supported Universalist views. But these heretical teachings have been so ably answered on many different occasions by other writers, that it would seem like a work of supererogation to go into them now. I only mention them, in fact, as a warning to those who are dabbling with this system, for that which looks so innocent in the beginning often ends up in complete departure from "the faith once delivered to the saints."

One who was a leading advocate of Bullingerism on the west coast for many years, has put out literature recently which denies the Eternal Sonship of the Lord Jesus Christ, the true personality of the Holy Spirit, and many other important truths. In order to support his restoration system, he has put out a private translation of the New Testament which, by his disciples, is generally accepted as absolute authority. Making no pretence to scholarship myself, but simply seeking to be a reverent student of the English Bible with whatever help I have been enabled to glean throughout more than forty years of studying the Word, I hesitated to pronounce upon many of the peculiar translations in this new New Testament, but several years ago it was my privilege to spend some time in company with the late Dr. A. T. Robertson, undoubtedly the foremost Greek scholar in America, and possibly without a peer elsewhere. I asked him if he had ever examined the Version in question. With a look of disgust, he said, "I certainly did. The editor had the impertinence to send me a copy, and asked me to commend his ignorance to others."

I said, "Doctor, would you give me in a few words your real estimate of this work, and give me the privilege of quoting you as occasion may arise?"

He replied, "I can give it to you in two words, Piffle and Puffle, and you may tell any one that that is my estimate of this vaunted translation."

In giving publicity to this conversation, my desire is to warn those who are carried away by great pretence to learning, who may not themselves be familiar with the original languages in which the Bible was written, and are therefore easily impressed by a parade of assumed scholarship.

Generally speaking, I have sought to avoid personalities in this discussion. Many otherwise excellent men have taken up these new views. I have no quarrel with men. I do not desire to reflect upon or belittle any of them. It is the Truth of God that is in question, and my appeal is therefore to the Word itself.

Singularly enough, since these papers began running serially, I have received abusive letters from a number of different teachers accusing me of attacking them. One such writes that he is neither a Bullingerite nor an ultra-dispensationalist, and resents being so designated. Each one must draw his own conclusions as to whether he holds the views I have endeavored to refute. "I speak as unto wise men. judge ye what I say."

In bringing these papers to a close, I would urge interested readers to remember the exhortation of the apostle, "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
Further Examination of the Epistles

PASSING over for the present the Apostle Paul's presentation of the sevenfold unity of Christianity in Ephesians 4, and his identification of the Body and the Bride in chapter 5, which we shall discuss later, we turn now to others of the prison epistles to see if we can find the slightest intimation of a new revelation given after Paul reached Rome. Unquestionably, Philippians was written during the Roman imprisonment. But we search its four precious chapters in vain for the least suggestion that he has received anything new to unfold. In chapter 1, where he presents Christ as the believer's life, he shows how thoroughly the evangelistic spirit had taken possession of him, so that even in his prison-cell he was rejoicing that Christ was being preached whether in pretence or in truth, and his own desire is that this same Christ may ever be magnified in his body, whether in life or in ,death. He urges the saints to stand fast in one spirit contending for the very faith which he had already made known to them. There is not a hint that he has now something new to reveal; that is, that the old dispensation to which they had hitherto belonged had come to a close, and that a new one had begun. In chapter 2 he dwells on Christ as our Example, and shows how he himself and Timothy and Epaphroditus during the years had sought to follow in Christ's steps, and this is still before his soul. In the third chapter he recounts his past experiences and self-confidence in the old days before be was saved, and then shows how the change was brought about by a sight of the risen Christ. From that moment on, he counted all things as loss for the One who had won his heart, and he was pressing on toward the mark for the prize of the calling of God on high in Christ Jesus. He calls upon them whom he designates as "perfect" to be thus minded. "Perfect" here means "mature," or we might even say well-rounded, or well-balanced. Nothing is needed to give them this perfection in addition to what they already had. Surely, if anywhere, this was the place to show them that hitherto they were but babes, and had only received an initial revelation, but that now he had something for them of an altogether new character which would perfect them in Christ. But there is no word of any such added truth. Nor yet in the last chapter where he exhorts to unity and peace among themselves. May we not say that Paul is singularly remiss in not sharing with his old converts at Philippi the new revelation he had received, if such a thing were really true?

But it was not true:-all the reasoning of the ultra-dispensationalists to the contrary notwithstanding;-for when we turn over to Colossians we find him once more reiterating the same truths he had proclaimed for a generation. He shows that two ministries had been committed to him from the first. He had been made a minister of the Gospel. That Gospel has been preached in all the creation which is under heaven. He had also been made a minister of "the mystery which hath been hidden from ages and generations, but now," he says, "is made manifest to His saints: to whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in (or, among) you, the hope of glory: whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: whereunto I also labor, striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily" (Col. 1: 26-29).

Let it be carefully observed that he is here covering his entire ministry. He had no such opportunity to preach to multitudes while he was in his Roman, or as some think, his Caesarean prison at the time he wrote this epistle. But he tells us what had characterized his ministry throughout the years. Other saints there were whom he had not met personally, as well as those at Colosse. He thinks of the Laodicean believers, and he longs that they all may be brought into the knowledge of this mystery. But it is not something new. It is that which has ever characterized his teaching.

The Epistle of Titus is not of course a prison epistle at all, but it was written later than any of those that are so designated, excepting Second Timothy. In this letter Paul instructs the younger preacher, Titus, as to the divine order for local churches, the work of a true pastor, and the testimony committed to the servants of God. Surely here, if anywhere, we should expect him to put before Titus the fact that the "transitional period" has now come to an end and Titus must ring the changes as the ultra-dispensationalists do to-day, on "body truth," "closed doors," "Jewish Gospels," "Kingdom Age," etc., etc., ad nauseam. But, no; none of these terms so frequently used and played upon until one is wearied, are suggested to Titus. He is simply to go on preaching and teaching the very same things that have been taught during his earlier association with the Apostle Paul.

The brief letter to Philemon we may pass over, as we would hardly expect to find anything doctrinal in it; and yet even here if Paul's heart were throbbing with the joy of some absolutely new opening up of truth, we would almost wonder how be could help saying a word about it, at least to his friend Philemon.

Hebrews was undoubtedly written very shortly before the apostle's martyrdom, granting that it is from the pen of Paul. That this is so, I have tried to make clear in my book on the Epistle to the Hebrews, and I shall not attempt to go into it now. But in any case, it was undoubtedly written very shortly before the destruction of Jerusalem, and here if anywhere, one might expect these Hebrew believers to be told that the "kingdom age" is now over, "the transition period" has now been finished, and it is for them to accept the new revelation of "body truth." But we search in vain for anything of the kind. It is simply a normal presentation of the precious things of Christ, showing how completely Old Testament types have had their fulfilment in Him and His finished work, and that all who believe now come under the blessings of the new covenant.

Probably later than Hebrews is the second letter to Timothy. It was penned during Paul's second imprisonment, very shortly before his death. As this occurred in A. D. 66 or 67, we may see how far along we have come and still no mention of any new revelation. So far as the truth that is dealt with is concerned, Second Timothy might have been written any time before the first imprisonment. It is in perfect harmony with all the apostle's previous ministry.

But now there are other Epistles to be considered. We have already seen that Paul makes no claim to being the sole depository of the revelation of the mystery. He says it was made known to Christ's holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit, and so we turn to consider the writings of other apostles and prophets asking, "Have we in them any intimation of a new revelation after Paul went to Rome?"

We may dismiss the Epistle of James as not touching on this question. It is addressed definitely to the twelve tribes scattered abroad, and is God's last word, as it were, to those of Israel who were still more or less linked in spirit to the synagogue. Bullingerites generally tell us that James was the first epistle to be written but this is absurd on the face of it. It is quite evident that James is a corrective epistle. It must have been written after the doctrine of justification by faith, as proclaimed by Paul, had been widely preached, for James writes to check those who were abusing that doctrine and using it as an occasion for the flesh. No one can read chapter 2 thoughtfully without seeing that it is based upon, and has in view throughout, Paul's teaching in Romans 4. James does not contradict Paul in the slightest degree, but he does show that there is another justification than that of which Paul speaks. The great apostle to the Gentiles deals particularly with justification by faith before God. James, the apostle to the twelve tribes, emphasizes justification by works before men.

First Peter was probably written before Paul's second imprisonment. Second Peter was certainly written afterwards, and all of Paul's letters were already in circulation when this epistle was penned. Note Peter's own words: "And account that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction" (2 Pet. 3: 15, 16). It is impossible to understand these verses excepting in the light of the fact that all the Epistles of Paul were already in circulation. Does Peter then tell us that a new dispensation had come in, and that the middle wall between Jew and Gentile having now for the first time been broken down and the one Body formed, the believers to whom he writes, who were of Jewish extraction, are to recognize this new revelation? Not at all. Peter has never heard of any such thing. He puts Paul's writings on the same plane as the other Scriptures, but warns against the danger of misunderstanding, and so wresting them.

Long years after all the other apostles had gone home to heaven, we find the aged John still preserved in life and caring for the churches of God. According to apparently reliable Church History, he made his home in Ephesus, and moved about in old age among the other churches mentioned in the first three chapters of the Book of the Revelation, those churches which the Bullingerites declare never existed in the past but are still to arise as Jewish Assemblies in the Great Tribulation! Could anything be much more grotesque?

John's Epistles were written, according to the very best authority we have, some time in the last decade of the first century of the Christian era. Weigh this well. Paul had been in heaven for nearly thirty years. John was an inspired apostle, and surely would know, if any one did, of the new revelation and its importance. But we search his letters in vain for the least reference to anything of the kind. In fact, we find the very opposite. False teaching had come in, and he writes to garrison the hearts of the saints against it. In order to do this, he refers them back to that which was from the beginning, namely, to the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and His apostles, as a careful reading of his first Epistle makes abundantly clear. There is not the slightest basis for the thought that a fuller unfolding of truth had been vouchsafed to Paul and others about thirty years after Christ's ascension. It is the message that they had heard from the beginning which he again commends to them.

Let us imagine the late Dr. Bullinger, or some of his lesser satellites, living, not in the twentieth century, but in the closing days of the first century of the Christian era. Filled with their ideas of a new revelation given to Paul in prison, can you by any stretch of the imagination think of them writing epistles or treatises in which no reference whatever is made to the supposedly new doctrines? The fact of the matter is that these men today can scarcely open their mouths without speaking of these things. No matter what text they begin to expound, they almost invariably wind up with something about their system of rightly dividing the Word of Truth, and the importance of making the fine distinctions which they imagine they see in the Word. Yet inspired men like Peter and John, and without particularly going into it, we may add Jude, can expound and apply the Truth of God in the fullest possible way without any reference to anything of the kind. What is the only legitimate conclusion? It is that this whole ultra-dispensational system is an idle dream unsupported by the testimony of the inspired writings.

Error is never consistent. It always over-emphasizes some point generally unimportant and fails to recognize other things of great importance. Heresy is simply a school of opinion in which something is particularly pressed out of proportion to its logical place. Who would dare to say that this system we have been attempting to refute is not therefore heretical? Mark, I do not mean to class it with what Peter calls "damnable heresies," but it is certainly schismatic, and its votaries constitute a special school of opinion within the professed Church of God, a school that attaches great importance to something which after all is not evident to the vast majority of devoted and godly believers. That the effect of this can only be division and harmful, is not only self-evident, but has been abundantly manifest in many places. The Holy Spirit says, "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself" (Titus 3: 10, 11). This is as certainly the Word of God as anything else revealed in the Scripture of Truth.


http://www.cnonline.net/~rkmiller/ultradispensationalism-ironside.htm#ch1
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
The prison epistles—Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, and Philemon—are so named because they were written by the apostle Paul during his incarceration in Rome.

Here are two examples of the mystery revealed to Paul that he wrote about in his prison espistles.


Ephesians 3:1 - 12 (NASB)

1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles— 2if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you; 3that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. 4By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men , as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, 7of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God’s grace which was given to me according to the working of His power. 8To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, 9and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; 10so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. 11This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him.


Colossians 1:24 - 29 (NASB)

24Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions. 25Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, 26that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, 27to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, so that we may present every man complete in Christ. 29For this purpose also I labor, striving according to His power, which mightily works within me.
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
So your a berean society follower Carol?

Or what?
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
No, but I know that no real cult index lists them as a cult. The people who criticize the Berean Bible Society can themselves be criticized just as easily.

I belong in the bolded paragraph below, and I don't deny that Paul was given a unique revelation as stated in the scriptures I quoted. What do YOU think of those scriptures barrykind? You can't deny them or ignore them because they are in the Bible.
_________________________________________________

Pauline Christianity is a term used to refer to the Christianity associated with the beliefs and doctrines espoused by Paul of Tarsus through his writings.

Most of orthodox Christianity relies heavily on these teachings and considers them to be amplifications and explanations of the teachings of Jesus.

Others perceive in Paul's writings, teachings that are radically different from the original teachings of Jesus documented in the canonical gospels, early Acts and the rest of the New Testament, such as the Epistle of James.

(Wikipedia)
_________________________________________________

You like Ironside. You ought to love this

The Gospel is not a call to repentance, or to amendment of our ways, to make restitution for past sins, or to promise to do better in the future. These things are proper in their place, but they do not constitute the Gospel; for the Gospel is not good advice to be obeyed, it is good news to be believed. Do not make the mistake then of thinking that the Gospel is a call to duty or a call to reformation, a call to better your condition, to behave yourself in a more perfect way than you have been doing in the past …

Nor is the Gospel a demand that you give up the world, that you give up your sins, that you break off bad habits, and try to cultivate good ones. You may do all these things, and yet never believe the Gospel and consequently never be saved at all.

SOURCE: Pastor Harry A. Ironside, from the sermon: What Is The Gospel?
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
This is the link to the entire message:

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/BTP/Dr_Harry_Ironside/what_is_the_gospel.htm

i have not read this , nor have i ever heard of Mr, Ironside until i posted the article about "Ultra despensationalism"

He may be a poor example of a teacher..im not sure..but we can read about him and see..

i think his teaching on UD was a good one..

First i believe Paul did receive much revelation, but i dont think it contradicted the Gospels, or any other written letters of the NT.

I dont think Paul's revelation, contradicted anything in the OLD T niether..

Let us study and see...

He also states in this sermon:

quote:

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THE GOSPEL ACCEPTED

Look at the result of believing the Gospel. Go back to verse two, "By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain." That is, if you believe the Gospel, you are saved; if you believe that Christ died for your sins, that He was buried, and that He rose again, God says you are saved. Do you believe it? No man ever believed that except by the Holy Ghost. It is the Spirit of God that overcomes the natural unbelief of the human heart and enables a man to put his trust in that message. And this is not mere intellectual credence, but it is that one comes to the place where he is ready to stake his whole eternity on the fact that Christ died, and was buried, and rose again. When Jesus said, "IT IS FINISHED" the work of salvation was completed. A dear saint was dying, and looking up he said, "It is finished; on that I can cast my eternity." Upon a life I did not live, Upon a death I did not die; Another's life, another's death, Is take my whole eternity." Can you say that, and say it in faith?

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
There, you see? A life you did not live; a death you did not die.

AMEN!!!
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
First and foremost lets return to the title of this thread.

another cult/Berean Bible Society

What does one mean by the word "cult"

Probably means many different things to differnt people.

Mostly, i would gather to say,
the word would mean : any or all of the below;

1] Religious practices or teachings outside of mainstream church today.

2]False Doctrine against Yahushua's teachings

3]Satanic influence of doctrine (occult)

4]Groups that separate themselves from mainstream "church"

5]Anything that does not agree with what "Our Church" teaches.


This is just a small list of what theword "cult" means to some folks...

That being said, probably most of us would be in a "cult" by the broadest use of the term.

I see a cult [to me] as a group that twists doctrine, and scripture to show "they" are right and one must follow them>

This is very broad of course and open for discussion of course.

i do not think that a group of believers that state YHWH, YHVH, Yahweh is the Father's name is a cult. [Just because of that statement]

Nor do i think because someone call the Father by His title [God], or Elohim, is a cult.

For the purpose of this thread...another cult..

Im assuming the author Brother Dale means [and one would have to ask him], The Berean Bible Society, Following in the footsteps of E>W> Bullinger.. C.R. Stam, and J.C. o'Hair followed with this line of thought [some call] Ultra or Extreme , dispensationalism....


Early Ultradispensationalism, such as that promoted by Sir Robert Anderson and E.W. Bullinger in his early years, emphasized a dispensational boundary line at Acts 28:28, but did not apply this boundary line to the Epistles of Paul, viewing them as a whole whether or not they were written before or after Acts 28:28. When the young Charles Welch pointed out the inherent contradiction in this to E.W. Bullinger, Bullinger changed his views, and incorporated the dividing line into his teachings on the Epistles of Paul that were written from that point forward and which became universally known as Ultradispensationalism. Since the majority of his work was written before this point, however, many of his writings view Paul’s Epistles as an unbroken whole. Later adherents of Ultradispensationalism writers, such as Stuart Allen, Oscar Baker, and Otis Sellers, all followed the example of Charles Welch and E.W. Bullinger’s later work in applying the division to Paul’s books as well as the book of Acts in the true spirit of Ultradispensationalism.


See wikepedia @

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultradispensationalism

This is two differences in the view;


Post Acts Dispensationalists
There is also division of the “grace” movement, who might be called “Post-Acts Dispensationalists”, that neither believe that the church began after the Acts nor identify the body of Christ as the mystery of Ephesians 3 and Colossians 1.

“Post-Acts Dispensationalists”, do not differ with the Mid-Acts position, in that they believe the church began with the Apostle Paul (Saul) in Acts 9. This is based on Paul’s statement in 1 Timothy 1:16 where he claims, "that in me first, Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting."(KJV), and at least eight references to the body in Romans and 1 Corinthians. Where the split occurs is in differing positions as to when the dispensation of grace begins. The Mid-Acts position begins it in either Acts 13, where Saul becomes Paul, or Acts 15 where James charges Paul to go to the Gentiles. Another difference is in the identification of what the mystery is, and what it affected. The post-Acts position holds that the mystery of Ephesians and Colossians is the grace dispensation, which effectively dispensed with "the law of commandments...the ordinances that was against us"(Eph. 2:15; Col. 2:14), in order to bring those saved into the body during Paul's Acts ministry, with those like the Ephesians and Colossians, into one fellowship, "the one new man...the fellowship of the mystery."(Eph.2:16;3:9) In this new unified body, all the practices ordained for the Acts church, which was decidedly Jewish/covenantal, were abolished with the “revelation of the mystery” (Romans 16:25) of Ephesians and Colossians.[2]

[edit] Mid-Acts Dispensationalists
Mid-Acts Dispensationalists believe the Church of this dispensation began with Paul, between Acts 9 and Acts 13. There are several reasons for this belief. Notably, Paul says that a dispensation was given to him which was called a mystery (Col 1:25-26). Paul says the gospel he preaches was "kept secret since the world began" (Rom 16:25). This is often contrasted to Peter's preaching which is said to be "spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began" (Acts 3:21). Also, Paul was referred to as "the" apostle of the Gentiles (Rom 11:11-13; Rom 15:16; Eph 3:1-2; compare Gal 2:7-9). In addition, Paul states that "the dispensation of...grace" was given to him (Eph 3:2; c.f., 1Cor 9:17; Col 1:25). Spokesmen for this viewpoint include J. C. O'Hair, Bob Hill (The Big Difference), C. R. Stam (Things That Differ), Major R. B. Withers ("The Greek Scriptures"), Charles F. Baker (A Dispensational Theology), and Bob Enyart (The Plot).

While adherents to the Mid-Acts Position agree that all Scripture is profitable (2Tim 3:16), in general, Mid-Acts Dispensationalists do not believe that the doctrine in the General Epistles (James through Jude) is for the participation of the church today. Instead, they believe these epistles (along with the four Gospels) will mostly apply to future Israel, after she repents and returns to the Lord during the Tribulation. Note that the term hyper or ultra-dispensationalist is not one that most Mid-Acts Dispensationalists would apply to themselves (although admittedly "more dispensational" than mainstream dispensationalists), yet they do tend to apply it to their Acts 28 brethren, who are viewed as taking dispensational concepts still further.

Shared views
In addition to their distinctive views on the applicability of many of the New Testament books, most hyper-dispensationalists hold unique views on what are commonly held as sacraments (which some term “ordinances”). Neither holds to the ordinance of water baptism, as they assert this has been supplanted by “one baptism”, the “baptism by the Holy Spirit” [1 Cor 12:13; Eph 4:4-6]. While most practice the ordinance of the Lord’s Supper; a few may not, in part from Paul’s post-Acts epistles, in which he states that the church today is no longer under any ordinances (Eph. 2:15; Col. 2:14; Col. 2:20).

Wikepedia reference link above:


This to me is a problem, and by the term "cult" given above,, Is teaching false doctrine, while many points given are true...

Discounting the gospels for the "church" today is false.

No water baptism...is false

Some even do not partake of the "Lords Supper....is false


All one has to do is read what they teach, and line it up with scripture to see it dont fit....

Study out these scriptures.....


1.Mark 4:11 (Whole Chapter)
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:


2.Romans 11:25 (Whole Chapter)
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


3.Romans 16:25 (Whole Chapter)
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,


4.1 Corinthians 2:7 (Whole Chapter)
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:


5.1 Corinthians 15:51 (Whole Chapter)
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


6.Ephesians 1:9 (Whole Chapter)
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:


7.Ephesians 3:3 (Whole Chapter)
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,


8.Ephesians 3:4 (Whole Chapter)
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)


9.Ephesians 3:9 (Whole Chapter)
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:


10.Ephesians 5:32 (Whole Chapter)
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.


11.Ephesians 6:19 (Whole Chapter)
And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,


12.Colossians 1:26 (Whole Chapter)
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:


13.Colossians 1:27 (Whole Chapter)
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:


14.Colossians 2:2 (Whole Chapter)
That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;


15.Colossians 4:3 (Whole Chapter)
Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:


16.2 Thessalonians 2:7 (Whole Chapter)
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.


17.1 Timothy 3:9 (Whole Chapter)
Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.


18.1 Timothy 3:16 (Whole Chapter)
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


19.Revelation 1:20 (Whole Chapter)
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.


20.Revelation 10:7 (Whole Chapter)
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.


Romans 16:


25Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

27To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.


Colossians 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,

2To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,

4Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,

5For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

6Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

7As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ;

8Who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit.

9For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

10That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

11Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

24Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

25Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

29Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.


Seach out the scriptures...peeps
work calls


 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Watchman Expositor definition of cult:

Christians generally have a doctrinal component to their use of the word. Cult in this sense, is a counterfeit or serious deviation from the doctrines of classical Christianity. Watchman Fellowship usually uses the term cult with a Christian or doctrinal definition in mind. In most cases the group claims to be Christian, but because of their aberrant beliefs on central doctrines of the faith (God, Jesus, and salvation), the organization is not considered by Watchman Fellowship to be part of orthodox, biblical Christianity.
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
Every jot and tittle of His Word is living Water for my soul, a lamp unto my feet.

2 Tim 3:
14: But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Paul was not writing to Timothy of his writings but of ALL of God's glorious Word.

The Ethiopean eunuch was reading from Isaiah, when Brother Phillip preached the Gospel.

All of the New Testament was written to Blood-bought, Born-again children of the Living God. The Book of Luke and Acts was written to the Greeks. The Book of Matthew was written to the Jews and thus we find the passages which say,"Kingdom of Heaven" rather than "Kingdom of God" because of the Jewish sensitivity to the use of God's name.

The Gospel which was preached on the day of Pentecost, at which time 3000 of our Believing Brethern came to Christ, is the same Gospel preached by Phillip, John, and Paul. Our Lord declared:

John 3:
14: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Acts 3:
13: The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14: But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15: And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16: And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17: And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18: But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19: Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20: And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22: For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23: And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24: Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25: Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26: Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Acts 8:
5: Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
6: And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
7: For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
8: And there was great joy in that city.

Acts 11:
12: And the spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
13: And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14: Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15: And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16: Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17: Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18: When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
19: Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
20: And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus.
21: And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.
22: Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch.
23: Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.
24: For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.
25: Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:
26: And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
27: And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.
28: And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
29: Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:
30: Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.


The Holy Ghost who inspired the sacred writings of Paul to Believers is the same Spirit of Truth who inspired the sacred writings of the Gospels, the Book of Acts, the entire New Testament, to Believers, our Brethren who spread forth from the Day of Pentecost. To propose a Pauline Dispensation, and to separate the Brethren on the day of Pentecost from the Brethren under Paul's apostleship, is a wresting of scripture. The Church Age, the Dispensation of Grace began with the empowering of the 120 in the Upper Room, and will conclude with our Glorious Reuniuon with our Lord in the air.

Acts 1:
3: To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4: And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5: For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6: When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7: And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9: And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10: And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Acts 2:
21: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:
10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Dispensationalism

http://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006809
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
Yes Carol and Berean Bible Society is from the mid acts E. W. Bullinger line..
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
wildb states:

quote:

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GodBless u and yours bigc ,

Dispensationalism is a Protestant evangelical tradition and theology based on a biblical hermeneutic that sees a series of chronologically successive "dispensations" or periods in history in which God relates to human beings in different ways under different Biblical covenants. all Bereans hold to a pretribulation rapture.

I shall go the way of Kingo, and let the ST berbarry/and other sillyness learn the next generation here.

Plow on Berry, plow on.

I will have no part of his "we"!

U all can jam me all U wan't but I know that this pitily disention does not show forth the simplicity that is in one's faith in Christ.

Simplicity that is in one's faith in Christ!

I take full responsibility for the confusions of these post.

Ok Berry and Because I stand down.


U have taken this BBS BOARDS left tower guard captive.

I am part of my Lords Body, his temple.


Till my last breath.


What have U boys really won?

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quote:

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You know Because , if you had any kind of Spiritual Class and a true knowledge of Christ you would delete this post until you and your boy are TRUTHFULLY educated to the Bereans.

Then I will debate you both with one lobe tied behind my 3 cheek and kicky all 4 of your cheeks.

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quote:

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FACT NO. 2—That the DISTINCTIVENESS of Pauline truth is a most important doctrine of the Bible. The risen Lord Jesus Christ revealed His heart and His mind to the Apostle Paul: "But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it but by THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST" (Gal. 1:11,12). "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward; how that BY REVELATION He made known unto me the MYSTERY..." (Eph. 3:2,3).

This proves conclusively that Paul did not preach what the 12 Apostles preached. Rather he went up to Jerusalem to TELL THEM of the special gospel of grace that Christ gave to him (Gal. 2:2). He preached Jesus Christ according to the REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY which was kept secret, hid in God (Rom. 16:25; Eph. 3:9). He was the Apostle to the Gentiles and magnified his office (Rom. 11:13).

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quote:

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In Jesus' day, those who sought after signs were called an evil and adulterous generation (Matt. 12:39). The eight miracles of the Gospel of John are properly called SIGNS, which included the rising of Lazarus from the dead; and in the commission of Mark 16:15-18, water baptism is associated with SIGNS. This is proved in the book of Acts because everywhere water baptism is mentioned a SIGN is mentioned in the immediate context.

This present age is a signless age. We have been blessed with all SPIRITUAL blessings in the heavenlies in Christ (Eph. 1:3). This is where the emphasis lies for the Christian.

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quote:

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The Teachings of Jesus
By Cornelius R. Stam


In the controversy over "Pauline truth," not a few Fundamentalists have joined Modernists in attempting to exalt "the teachings of Jesus" (on earth) above the Word of God through Paul. "Which," they ask, "should bear the greater weight with us, the words of Jesus, or the words of Paul?"

But do they ask this because they truly desire to obey these "words of Jesus" and to see them obeyed? No, for they flagrantly disregard and disobey them, from the Sermon on the Mount to the Great Commission.

With regard to the Sermon on the Mount, they do not subject themselves to the law of Moses (Matt. 5:17-19); they do not bring gifts to altars of sacrifice (5:23,24); they do not give freely to all who ask of them (5:42; 10:8,9); they do not refrain from laying up treasures on earth (6:19,25,26); they do not sell what they have and give alms (Luke 6:30; 12:33).

And while professing obedience to the so-called "Great Commission" as "the Church's marching orders," they do not proclaim faith and baptism for salvation (Mark 16:16); they do not—they cannot—perform miraculous signs (Mark 16:17,18); they do not give the Jew first place in their ministry (Luke 24:47; Acts 1:8), and they certainly do not teach others to observe all things that Messiah on earth commanded (Matt. 28:20 cf. 23:1-3).

They set "the teachings of Jesus" (on earth) over against "the teachings of Paul," not because they are determined to obey Jesus, but because they are determined to minimize that which God has "magnified"—the authority of Paul as "the apostle of the Gentiles" (Rom. 11:13).

They seek to exalt the teachings of the earthly Jesus above those of Paul because they have closed their ears to the oft-repeated and Spirit-inspired claims of Paul that the glorified Lord spoke again from heaven, to and through him, committing to him "the dispensation of the grace of God" and the program for the day in which we live (Acts 20:24; 22:6-10,17-21; 26:12-18; Rom. 11:13; 15:15,16; 16:25,26; I Cor. 3:10; 11:23; 15:3; II Cor. 5:16; Gal. 1:1,11,12; 2:7-9; Eph. 3:1-4,8,9; 6:18-20; Phil. 4:9; Col. 1:23-27; I Thes. 4:15; II Thes. 3:14; I Tim. 2:5-7; II Tim. 2:7-9; Titus 1:2,3, etc.).

They have forgotten the stern rebuke the Galatians received for failing to recognize Paul's teachings as a message from the risen, exalted Christ (Gal. 1:6-12). They have taken lightly Paul's words to the Corinthians:

"...if I come again I will not spare: since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me..." (II Cor. 13:2,3).

They have distorted Paul's inspired admonition as to his own writings:

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; he is proud, knowing nothing...from such withdraw thyself" (I Tim. 6:3-5).

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Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :
 
Barry,

You reject the teaching of Paul because he said not to judge one another over days of worship. You want to be a Jew first and then a Christian and your teachings differ from Paul so this puts you at odds with the Bible.

Every post you are trying to sneak in your teaching of being a Jew and then a Christian. Your teachings are wrong and you are misleading people with your post.

betty
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
betty states:

quote:

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Advanced Member
Member # 7175

posted October 22, 2010 09:01 PM
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Barry,

You reject the teaching of Paul because he said not to judge one another over days of worship. You want to be a Jew first and then a Christian and your teachings differ from Paul so this puts you at odds with the Bible.

Every post you are trying to sneak in your teaching of being a Jew and then a Christian. Your teachings are wrong and you are misleading people with your post.

betty

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quote:

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They seek to exalt the teachings of the earthly Jesus above those of Paul because they have closed their ears to the oft-repeated and Spirit-inspired claims of Paul that the glorified Lord spoke again from heaven, to and through him, committing to him "the dispensation of the grace of God" and the program for the day in which we live

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quote:

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“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine....”

this is on their web site. It does not sound like they are rejecting the book of Acts to me.
betty

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WildB

Advanced Member
Member # 2917

posted October 22, 2010 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by barrykind:
Betty this is also thier website...go read for your self!!!


http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/1017954587.html
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So berry , the one from the cult,

Lol.




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That is all.....

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Posts: 3598 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |

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Originally posted by Betty Louise:
there site says ALL SCRIPTURE

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While many Grace pastors preach and write about Paul's epistles (which they certainly should do), some of them unfortunately neglect the rest of the Bible. This leaves many Grace folks having to get their instruction on the General Epistles from teachers who do not understand Paul's unique apostleship and message. While we certainly want to emphasize the teaching and preaching of the dispensation of the grace of God committed to the Apostle Paul, we do not want to neglect the other Scriptures because we know that "ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." Our goal should be to know and understand the entire Bible in light of Paul's gospel.

http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/epistles.html

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Originally posted by barrykind:
stam the false teacher said:

quote:

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They seek to exalt the teachings of the earthly Jesus above those of Paul because they have closed their ears to the oft-repeated and Spirit-inspired claims of Paul that the glorified Lord spoke again from heaven, to and through him, committing to him "the dispensation of the grace of God" and the program for the day in which we live

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another wolf in sheeps clothing.....

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quote:

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But do they ask this because they truly desire to obey these "words of Jesus" and to see them obeyed? No, for they flagrantly disregard and disobey them, from the Sermon on the Mount to the Great Commission.

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quote:

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They have distorted Paul's inspired admonition as to his own writings:

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; he is proud, knowing nothing...from such withdraw thyself" (I Tim. 6:3-5).

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quote:

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You didn't quote the entire message, and failed to provide a link to it. I will quote the next paragraph Stam wrote:


quote:
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But do they ask this because they truly desire to obey these "words of Jesus" and to see them obeyed? No, for they flagrantly disregard and disobey them, from the Sermon on the Mount to the Great Commission.

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Yes i posted the link:


http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/1017954587.html
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
This is the article in its entireity:


Seven Basic Bible Facts
Every Christian Should Know and Believe
By Robert C. Brock

Editor of the Journal of Pauline Dispensationalism


FACT NO. 1—That the Bible MUST be rightly divided in order for it to make sense. Notice what it says: "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING the Word of truth" (II Tim. 2:15). This is one of the cardinal rules for interpreting the whole Bible. Neglect of this rule or a faulty use of it will lead to only one result, CONFUSION, since our God is not the author of confusion.

The reason for a right division of the Bible is because of God's two distinct purposes: (1) His purpose concerning Israel and the world according to PROPHECY, and (2) His purpose concerning the Gentiles in this present age according to the MYSTERY revealed to Paul. God doesn't want us to confuse the teaching of these two purposes. He has very graciously given us the key for a proper understanding of this.

FACT NO. 2—That the DISTINCTIVENESS of Pauline truth is a most important doctrine of the Bible. The risen Lord Jesus Christ revealed His heart and His mind to the Apostle Paul: "But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it but by THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST" (Gal. 1:11,12). "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward; how that BY REVELATION He made known unto me the MYSTERY..." (Eph. 3:2,3).

This proves conclusively that Paul did not preach what the 12 Apostles preached. Rather he went up to Jerusalem to TELL THEM of the special gospel of grace that Christ gave to him (Gal. 2:2). He preached Jesus Christ according to the REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY which was kept secret, hid in God (Rom. 16:25; Eph. 3:9). He was the Apostle to the Gentiles and magnified his office (Rom. 11:13).

FACT NO. 3—That the gospel we are to preach is called the Gospel of the grace of God. "But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy and the ministry which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify THE GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD" (Acts 20:24). This is God's only message for the lost in this present age. We are to follow Paul as he followed Christ (I Cor. 11:1). In his writings ALONE do we find the doctrine, position, walk, and destiny of the Christian.

Some other important aspects of grace are:

1. We are saved by GRACE—Eph. 2:8,9.

2. We are justified freely by His GRACE—Rom. 3:24; Titus 3:7.

3. His GRACE is sufficient for us—II Cor. 12:9.

4. We are not under Law but under GRACE—Rom. 6:14,15.

5. This age is the age of GRACE —Eph. 3:2.

6. We are to approach the throne of GRACE in prayer—Heb. 4:16.

FACT NO. 4—That the Bible definitely teaches that water baptism was and is a part of Israel's religion (Heb. 6:1,2; 9:10). It was for the remission of sins and was by sprinkling (Mark 1:4; Acts 2:38; Ezek. 36:25).

In this age there is only ONE baptism, not two: "One Lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM" (Eph. 4:5). This baptism is the placing of the Christian into the Church, the Body of Christ, by the Holy Spirit: "For by one SPIRIT are we all BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (I Cor. 12:13). This baptism takes place once for all at the time of salvation.

The Apostle Paul was not sent to baptize with water: "For Christ sent me NOT TO BAPTIZE but to preach the gospel..." (I Cor. 1:17). Only a change in God's purpose would necessitate a statement like this. There is no importance attached to water baptism, today. It is not a part of Christianity and only causes confusion.

FACT NO. 5—That we must understand the two-fold ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ. During His earthly ministry He ministered exclusively to Israel: "But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the HOUSE OF ISRAEL" (Matt. 15:24). His whole ministry to the Nation was under the Law of Moses (Matt. 5:17; Gal. 4:4,5). Christians are not under the Law so we are not to live according to Israel's teachings.

During His present ministry in Heaven, He is ministering according to what He revealed to the Apostle Paul. He is saving men according to His gospel of Grace. He is at the throne of grace making intercession for us (Rom. 8:34). We are to live in Paul's epistles where pure Christianity is found. This is not to say we should neglect the rest of the Bible. It is ALL for us but not all TO us (I Cor. 10:6,11).

FACT NO. 6—That SIGNS belong to the Nation of Israel and its religion: "For the JEWS REQUIRE A SIGN, and the Gentiles seek after wisdom" (I Cor. 1:22). Speaking in tongues is a SIGN: "Wherefore TONGUES are for a SIGN, not to them that believe but to them that believe not..." (I Cor. 14:22).

In Jesus' day, those who sought after signs were called an evil and adulterous generation (Matt. 12:39). The eight miracles of the Gospel of John are properly called SIGNS, which included the rising of Lazarus from the dead; and in the commission of Mark 16:15-18, water baptism is associated with SIGNS. This is proved in the book of Acts because everywhere water baptism is mentioned a SIGN is mentioned in the immediate context.

This present age is a signless age. We have been blessed with all SPIRITUAL blessings in the heavenlies in Christ (Eph. 1:3). This is where the emphasis lies for the Christian.

FACT NO. 7—That the COMMISSION the Church, the Body of Christ, is to work under, is found in II Corinthians 5:14-21 and Ephesians 3:9. The Kingdom commission of Matthew 28:19-20 and Mark 16:15-18 does not belong to God's present grace purpose. The message of reconciliation has been committed to US, the Body of Christ.

RESULTS:

1. The Christian would begin to perceive and grasp the deep things of God (I Cor. 2:10-12).

2. There would be a wonderful growth into spiritual maturity and adulthood (Eph. 4:12-15).

3. He would become a faithful steward of the mysteries of God (I Cor. 2:7; 4:1,2).

4. He would possess the Biblical answer to Satan's false cults like Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Christian Scientists, Unitarians, Modernists, etc. They all borrow some aspects of Israel's religion.

5. A mighty revival would take place if Christians would get back to Pauline truth.

My friend, if you are not saved, the grace of God invites you to receive the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour. You are a sinner and need to be saved (Rom. 3:23). "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved..." (Acts 16:31). "...now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation" (II Cor. 6:2). It is infinitely better to receive Him and spend eternity in Heaven than to reject Him and spend eternity in the Lake of Fire!

http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/1017954587.html
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
As far as "cult" the very title of this thread is "another cult Berean Bible Society"


we disscussed cult and the meanings thereof...

The reason i see the Berean Bible Society as a cult...

Ultra dispensationalism..

Saying only Pauls words are for the "church" today.

Discounting Yahushua's [Jesus] teachings as not for the church.

James, Jude, Gospels (4), most of Acts, were for the Jews [Israel] not for the "church" of today.

Water baptism is no longer for the "church" today.

Et.;El; and other things.


Im a "cult' most of yall think, because i brought up subjects, like we should "Remember" the Sabbath and Keep it Holy.

I also think that we should "keep" the commandments. Which i have explained are written on our hearts and if we walk in the Spirit we can do that.

I also dont believe that one can be saved "born again", born from above, receive the LORD'S Spirit; and live like the devil and go to heaven.
OSAS..like Charles Stanley and others teach.

I believe that signs , such as healing, tongues, and the like are still here today.

i believe that the 5 fold ministry still is effect today.....
Apostles, Evangelists, Prophets, Pastors, and Teachers.

i do not believe the way that the "TRINITY" is taught today...Co-Equal, co Existent etc.

1 Corinthians 15:27
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him

Also again the word states:

1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


So such as most teach the "trinity" is not in line with the Bible..

My little tiny mind is overwhelmed with such and how "the word became flesh" and dwelt amoung us is to deep for me...

i have never stated a "church" affiliation, nor stated where i attend "worship" and im called a "cult", and also trying to proystelyte [sp] folks to mine and "Dales", Shauls's, and Daniels church.. i know Dale for 30+ years, a finer man i personally know of only 1 other with the integrity and honest heart than BROTHER DALE.

Brother Dale is a "man" after Gods heart...
We live about a 100 miles apart and do not attend "church" together.

The others on this baord at current time i do not know.

I can see Brother Daniels Heart...he loves God!

Any way ..side tracked a little.

The Berean Bible Society teaches a false doctrine as i see it; and which enturn, a FALSE GOSPEL...

When you state that only the Pauline Letters and the"mystery" that Paul was taught superceeds what Christ Yahushua [Jesus] taught and those writings [Christs, and others except Paul] are not for the "body of Christ" today...My goodness Sister [not a nun] Carol and Sister Betty and others.do yall too believe that?

That Society is a group that was much stronger in the 40's and 50's but has truly dwindeled as of today..[i read], but have drifted from truth.

i dearly love Paul and his writings [scripture] but it is a blend with all of the Word of YHWH!

we get in trouble when we pick and choose scripture..
i try to look at all of scripture...i dont understand many, many things......

Bill has shown his true colors; he is a name called and made himself a judge..

You can state that one has "lied" and prove your point; but to call "Christ" a liar; and any "person" [such he did me] you have became a judge and condemned that one to hell...FOR ALL LIARS have thier part in the "lake of fire", and WILL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God!

Serious accusation!

Repent of that Brother...
Do not let me or anyone or anything let a root of bitterness spring up in your heart..

We can discuss these matters civily..

The word tells us to render unto Ceaser what is ceaser's....

2) You state if i remember right that Romans 13 is civil government...[i personally think that it is "church" govt.].

If it is civil government then render unto your govt, as is its due? right

But to answer the direct question youask me, Do i pay taxes?

i wondered about this for quite some time, agonizing over the very same thing you ask me...

i received peace from Yahushua on the matter:

My current income i pay in about 20-100 dollars a year to the IRS. Onmy tax returns because of my children and earned income credits i receive in return about $8,000.00 a year.
Sonone of my earned money goes to abortion, Endowment for the arts etc, etc.

But i leagally "render unto Ceaser" what is his, and he gets none!

i dont really like conterversy believe it or not, but i will defend the words of Yahushua as feebly as i can to the end.

im not nowor never have been associated with :

The seventh day adventist
Armstrong, none of them
Mormons
Jehova witness
Roman Catholics and most all other denominations [divisions]

i have attended many, many, many different denoms [divisions] in the "body of Christ" and dont fit any of them, from Primitive Bap, Southern Baptist, Assb, Of God, Holiness, Apostolic, UPC, Dont fit

Many have lots of truth, none can agree...
Your either a sheep or a goat to me, in the body or not!

Just like a family, not everyone is at the same level of truth, certainly not that i have attained, but i press on.

There are certain things i can walk with and understand such as tribulation, i see where Bettey, Carol and some of you come from, dont agree but it is not a doctrine to say that you all "are not saved", and there are many things like this that is not critical to "salvation" to me anyways.

But to say that Yahushua's word in the gospels, and everything but what Paul states is "NOT" for the church today..i cant live with that..

Thats "ANOTHER" Gospel to me...mid acts, pre acts and post acts [Ultra], [Hyper] and those other words for ultra dispensationalism, discounting the words of everybody but Paul, does not blend with YHWH's word the bible, where all scripture is given for doctrine, etc., etc.


Perhaps i said enough..

in love


barry
 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 
What does the Berean Bible Society believe?
An excellent question! Here is a copy of our doctrinal statement:

WE BELIEVE:
1) The verbal inspiration and plenary authority of the BIBLE in its original writings.

2) The eternal trinity of the GODHEAD.

3) The eternal deity, virgin birth, vicarious death, and spotless humanity of the LORD JESUS CHRIST.

4) MANKIND by nature is sinful and under the condemnation of God.

5) Personal SALVATION is by God’s grace, through faith in the crucified, risen, and glorified Christ.

6) The ETERNAL SECURITY of all the saved.

7) The personality and deity of the HOLY SPIRIT.

8) The essential unity of all believers of the present dispensation as members of the one true Church, the BODY OF CHRIST.

9) The GIFTS enumerated in Ephesians 4:7-16, have been given for the building up of the Body of Christ, and of these, only evangelists, pastors, and teachers are in order during the present dispensation. The sign gifts of the Acts period were temporary in character, and have ceased.

10) The privilege and duty of all the saved to WALK by faith as children of light.

11) The Communion of the LORD’S SUPPER as revealed through Paul for the members of the Body of Christ “TILL HE COME.”

12) All believers are made members of the Body of Christ by One Divine BAPTISM, by which also they are identified with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection. In the light of I Corinthians 1:17, Ephesians 4:5. and Colossians 2:12, we affirm that water baptism has no place in God’s spiritual program for the Body of Christ in this dispensation of grace.

13) The RESURRECTION of the Body.

14) The Pretribulation RAPTURE of the Church.

15) The personal, premillennial RETURN OF CHRIST to reign on earth.

16) The ETERNAL PUNISHMENT of the unsaved dead.

17) The MYSTERY “Hid in God” was the divine purpose to make of Jew and Gentile a whole new thing, that is, the Church, which is Christ’s Body. The revelation of this Mystery was committed to Paul, and it is in his writings alone that we find the doctrine, position, walk and destiny of the Church.


3. What is a "berean" anyway?
Thanks for asking. We get asked that a lot. Being called a Berean comes from Acts 17:10-11. In verse 11 it says that those from Berea (hence, the Bereans) were nobler than the people in Thessalonica because they "received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

So, when we say that someone is a "Berean" we mean that they do two things: (1) They have an open mind and willingly receive the Word of God when it is taught to them and (2) But then, they check out what they were taught by comparing it with the Scriptures.

Both aspects are important. Some people are so closed minded that they will not even listen to anything new or that might threaten what they already know. Others are so gullible that they accept whatever is told them without ever checking it against what the Bible says. Both extremes are to be avoided.

A Berean is one who has a balanced viewpoint. We listen to what someone has to say because we are eager to learn the word of God more perfectly. We realize that we have not learned it all. But then, we take what we have heard and compare it with the Bible. Then, if both match, we have learned something and increased our knowledge of God's Word, rightly divided.
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Yes, and the Berean Bible Society is NOT ultradispensational. They do NOT agree with or accept Bullinger.
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by barrykind:
Carol States;

quote:

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You didn't quote the entire message, and failed to provide a link to it. I will quote the next paragraph Stam wrote:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But do they ask this because they truly desire to obey these "words of Jesus" and to see them obeyed? No, for they flagrantly disregard and disobey them, from the Sermon on the Mount to the Great Commission.

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Yes i posted the link:


http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/1017954587.html

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quote:

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1) The verbal inspiration and plenary authority of the BIBLE in its original writings.

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quote:

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9) The GIFTS enumerated in Ephesians 4:7-16, have been given for the building up of the Body of Christ, and of these, only evangelists, pastors, and teachers are in order during the present dispensation. The sign gifts of the Acts period were temporary in character, and have ceased.

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quote:

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Originally posted by barrykind:
This is the article in its entireity:


Seven Basic Bible Facts
Every Christian Should Know and Believe
By Robert C. Brock

http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/1017954587.html

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That is NOT the article!!! That is an article written by Robert Brock! You call Stam a false teacher then quote an article written by Brock. How does that work?

This is the article written by Stam:

The Teachings of Jesus
By Cornelius R. Stam

In the controversy over "Pauline truth," not a few Fundamentalists have joined Modernists in attempting to exalt "the teachings of Jesus" (on earth) above the Word of God through Paul. "Which," they ask, "should bear the greater weight with us, the words of Jesus, or the words of Paul?"

But do they ask this because they truly desire to obey these "words of Jesus" and to see them obeyed? No, for they flagrantly disregard and disobey them, from the Sermon on the Mount to the Great Commission.

With regard to the Sermon on the Mount, they do not subject themselves to the law of Moses (Matt. 5:17-19); they do not bring gifts to altars of sacrifice (5:23,24); they do not give freely to all who ask of them (5:42; 10:8,9); they do not refrain from laying up treasures on earth (6:19,25,26); they do not sell what they have and give alms (Luke 6:30; 12:33).

And while professing obedience to the so-called "Great Commission" as "the Church's marching orders," they do not proclaim faith and baptism for salvation (Mark 16:16); they do not—they cannot—perform miraculous signs (Mark 16:17,18); they do not give the Jew first place in their ministry (Luke 24:47; Acts 1:8), and they certainly do not teach others to observe all things that Messiah on earth commanded (Matt. 28:20 cf. 23:1-3).

They set "the teachings of Jesus" (on earth) over against "the teachings of Paul," not because they are determined to obey Jesus, but because they are determined to minimize that which God has "magnified"—the authority of Paul as "the apostle of the Gentiles" (Rom. 11:13).

They seek to exalt the teachings of the earthly Jesus above those of Paul because they have closed their ears to the oft-repeated and Spirit-inspired claims of Paul that the glorified Lord spoke again from heaven, to and through him, committing to him "the dispensation of the grace of God" and the program for the day in which we live (Acts 20:24; 22:6-10,17-21; 26:12-18; Rom. 11:13; 15:15,16; 16:25,26; I Cor. 3:10; 11:23; 15:3; II Cor. 5:16; Gal. 1:1,11,12; 2:7-9; Eph. 3:1-4,8,9; 6:18-20; Phil. 4:9; Col. 1:23-27; I Thes. 4:15; II Thes. 3:14; I Tim. 2:5-7; II Tim. 2:7-9; Titus 1:2,3, etc.).

They have forgotten the stern rebuke the Galatians received for failing to recognize Paul's teachings as a message from the risen, exalted Christ (Gal. 1:6-12). They have taken lightly Paul's words to the Corinthians:

"...if I come again I will not spare: since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me..." (II Cor. 13:2,3).

They have distorted Paul's inspired admonition as to his own writings:

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; he is proud, knowing nothing...from such withdraw thyself" (I Tim. 6:3-5).

http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/1084472576.html
 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 
Sorry BigC it took so long 2 get back 2 you all Had 2 help friend drag a doe out of the woods and if I want it I have to tag and gut. Still deciding if I wan't 2 get all bloody.

Well I still have room in the freez. I got 2 go and get bloody again...yeuck!

I be back later 2 play with barry. Thanx for keeping the truth forward.
 

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Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :
 
Carol,

When Barry cannot prove his comments with facts, he tries to confuse the issue with junk from other sources.
betty
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Hi Betty. Hmmmmm....I'll have to try that some time

quote:

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Do you believe in water baptism bill?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Hi Betty. Hmmmmm....I'll have to try that some time

quote:

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Do you believe in water baptism bill?

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WildB is busy, so I hope he won't mind if I throw in my two cents worth.

About baptism...

Ephesians 4:4 - 6 (NASB)
There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

Since Paul is here discussing the one body, this “one baptism” is probably the baptism of the Spirit, that act of the Spirit when He places the believing sinner into the body of Christ at conversion (1 Cor. 12:13). This is not an experience after conversion, nor is it an experience the believer should pray for or seek after. We are commanded to be filled with the Spirit (Eph. 5:18), but we are never commanded to be baptized with the Spirit, for we have already been baptized by the Spirit at conversion. As far as the one body is concerned, there is one baptism—the baptism of the Spirit. But as far as local bodies of believers are concerned, there are two baptisms: the baptism of the Spirit, and water baptism.

The Greek word baptizo has two meanings, one literal and the other figurative. The word literally means “to submerge,” but the figurative meaning is “to be identified with.” The baptism of the Spirit is that act of God by which He identified believers with the exalted Head of the church, Jesus Christ, and formed the spiritual body of Christ on earth (1 Cor. 12:12-14). Historically, this took place at Pentecost; today, it takes place whenever a sinner trusts Jesus Christ and is born again.

When you read about “baptism” in the New Testament, you must exercise discernment to determine whether the word is to be interpreted literally or symbolically. For example, in Romans 6:3-4 and Galatians 3:27-28, the reference is symbolic since water baptism cannot put a sinner into Jesus Christ. Only the Holy Spirit can do that (Rom. 8:9; 1 Cor. 12:13; see Acts 10:44-48). Water baptism is a public witness of the person’s identification with Jesus Christ, while Spirit baptism is the personal and private experience that identifies the person with Christ.

We can be encouraged because we are identified with Christ’s victory. This is pictured in baptism, and the doctrine is explained in Romans 6. It is the baptism of the Spirit that identifies a believer with Christ (1 Cor. 12:12-13), and this is pictured in water baptism. It is through the Spirit’s power that we live for Christ and witness for Him (Acts 1:8). The opposition of men is energized by Satan, and Christ has already defeated these principalities and powers. He has “all authority in heaven and on earth” (Matt. 28:18, niv), and therefore we can go forth with confidence and victory.

Another practical lesson is that our baptism is important. It identifies us with Christ and gives witness that we have broken with the old life (see 1 Peter 4:1-4) and will, by His help, live a new life. The act of baptism is a pledge to God that we shall obey Him. To use Peter’s illustration, we are agreeing to the terms of the contract. To take baptism lightly is to sin against God. Some people make too much of baptism by teaching that it is a means of salvation, while others minimize it. Both are wrong. If a believer is to have a good conscience, he must obey God.

Having said this, I want to make it clear that Christians must not make baptism a test of fellowship or of spirituality. There are dedicated believers who disagree on these matters, and we respect them. When General William Booth founded the Salvation Army, he determined not to make it “another church,” so he eliminated the ordinances. There are Christian groups, such as the Quakers, who, because of conscience or doctrinal interpretation, do not practice baptism. I have stated my position, but I do not want to give the impression that I make this position a test of anything. “Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another” (Rom. 14:19). “Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind” (Rom. 14:5).

The important thing is that each Christian avow devotion to Christ and make it a definite act of commitment. Most Christians do this in baptism, but even the act of baptism can be minimized or forgotten. It is in taking up our cross daily that we prove we are true followers of Jesus Christ.

(Wiersbe)

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quote:

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Originally posted by barrykind:
I ask bill because the Berean Bible Society does not participate in water baptism, i also did not ask if bill was dipped, i ask does he belive it to be a doctrine of the "church" today..

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Give it up Berry. It is clear to all the game you play.
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19)

Water baptism is an act of obedience. It is not a requirement for salvation. The ONLY requirement for salvation is that a person is regenerated (baptised) by the Holy Spirit.
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
carol states:

quote:

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Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19)

Water baptism is an act of obedience. It is not a requirement for salvation. The ONLY requirement for salvation is that a person is regenerated (baptised) by the Holy Spirit.

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quote:

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Water baptism is an act of obedience. It is not a requirement for salvation.

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Why is the Berean bible Society being "disobedient"?
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
This scripture comes to mind:


Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
“Hyper-dispensationalism” is characterized by making a sharp division between the ministry of Christ and that of the Apostles, and of further dividing Paul’s teaching from that of Peter and the other apostles. Some of the well-known teachers of hyper- or ultra-dispensationalism are E.W. Bullinger, Cornelius Stam, J.C. O’Hair, Charles Welch, Otis Sellers, A.E. Knoch, and Charles Baker. There are many varieties of hyper-dispensationalism, but the following are some of the characteristics:

(1) The four Gospels are entirely Jewish and contain no direct teaching for the churches. Yet, the writer of Hebrews said that the same gospel of salvation that was preached by the apostles was preached by Christ (Heb. 2:3-4). Though we know that Christ presented Himself to the Jewish nation and we do understand that there are differences between the gospels and the epistles, yet in Hebrews 2 we do not see a sharp delineation between the gospel preached by Christ and that preached by the apostles who followed. In fact, the Gospel of John presents exactly the same gospel as that preached by Paul. Further, 1 Timothy 6:3 shows that Christ spoke directly to the church age.

(2) The book of Acts is also largely Jewish. Hyper-dispensationalists commonly believe that after Christ was rejected by Israel in the Gospels, that they were given a second chance to receive the kingdom in the first part of the book of Acts. Thus, they teach that there are two different churches viewed in the book of Acts, and the true Pauline church only started after Acts 9, 13, or 28. The church mentioned in the first part of Acts allegedly refers to a different church than that of Paul’s prison epistles. The earlier “church” in Acts is simply an aspect of the kingdom preached in the Gospels. Most of the book of Acts is therefore discounted as a guideline for the churches today. Yet, at the very end of the book of Acts we still find Paul preaching about the kingdom (Acts 28:23). In fact, he was still preaching about it in his epistles! (2 Thess. 1:5; 2 Tim. 4:1). While we can see an obvious transition in the book of Acts, and not everything in Acts continues to be in effect in the churches today (e.g., tongues speaking and apostolic sign gifts) this does not mean that there are different gospels and different churches in various parts of Acts. The book of Acts is a book about and for the churches. The pattern of the first church as described in Acts 2 is the pattern for the churches throughout the age, except for the temporary and unique aspects pertaining to the coming of the Holy Spirit and the apostolic miracles.

(3) The mysteries given to Paul are a different revelation from that given to Peter and the other Apostles, and only Paul’s writings are directly for the church today. The other epistles, such as Hebrews, James, 1 and 2 Peter, and the epistles of John are not for us today in a direct sense. Yet, Paul himself said that the church is built upon the “apostleS” plural and not merely upon himself (Eph. 2:20) and the mysteries were “revealed unto his holy apostleS and prophetS” (Eph. 3:5) and not to him alone. Peter also referred to the writings of Paul and made no distinction between Paul’s teaching and the teaching of the other apostles (2 Pet. 3:1-2, 15-16). Peter said Paul wrote to the same people and preached the same message. Though we know that Paul was the special apostle of the Gentiles and he was given unique revelations about the church as the body of Christ, his revelations in no way contradict the revelations given in the General Epistles (Hebrews - Jude).

(4) The gospel preached by Peter in the early part of the book of Acts is different from the gospel preached by Paul. Yet, there is actually no difference between the gospel preached by Peter and that which Paul preached. Peter preached salvation through the blood of Christ (1 Pet. 1:2), salvation by God’s free mercy (1 Peter 1:3), the new birth (1 Peter 1:3), eternal security because of the resurrection of Christ (1 Pet. 1:3-4). Acts 15 plainly states that all of the apostles, including Peter and Paul, agreed on the gospel. Paul plainly said in 1 Cor. 15:11-14 that they all preached the same gospel. Even in Acts 2, Peter was preaching the gospel of the grace of Christ rather than a “kingdom gospel.” He preached Christ -- His crucifixion (Acts 2:23), resurrection (Acts 2:24-32), ascension and Lordship (Acts 2:33-36). He preached that the people should repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38). This is not a “kingdom gospel.” Further, Paul states in Galatians 1, that anyone who preached a different gospel was cursed. If Peter were truly preaching a different gospel in those days, he would have fallen under this curse.

(5) Baptism and the Lord’s Supper were given to Paul before he received the church age mysteries; thus they are not for the churches today. Hyper-dispensationalists differ on this point. Some accept both baptism and the Lord’s Supper; some reject water baptism and the Lord’s Supper altogether; while others reject only baptism and keep the Lord’s Supper.

(6) According to hyper-dispensationalism there are different ways of salvation in the Old Testament and during the Tribulation. Peter Ruckman, for example, teaches that men were saved by faith plus works in the Old Testament and that they will be saved by faith plus works in the Tribulation and by works alone in the Millennium. In Millions Disappear: Fact or Fiction? Ruckman says: “If the Lord comes and you remain behind, then start working like a madman to get to heaven, because you’re going to have to. ... You must keep the Ten Commandments (all of them, Ecclesiastes 12:13), keep the Golden Rule (1 John 3:10), give your money to the poor, get baptized, take up your cross, hold out to the end of the Tribulation, wait for Jesus Christ to show up at the Battle of Armageddon, and be prepared to die for what you believe. In the Tribulation you cannot be saved by grace alone, like you could before the Rapture.” In fact, Romans 4:1-8 plainly states that Abraham before the law and David under the law were saved by faith without works. This is the only plan of salvation God ever has had and ever will have--salvation by grace alone through faith alone based upon the shed blood of Jesus Christ alone. The Old Testament saints did not know what the New Testament saint knows, but Romans 4 makes it plain that they were saved by faith without works. Like Abraham, they believed God and it was counted unto them for righteousness. Those who are saved in the Tribulation will also be saved through faith in God’s Word and by the blood of Jesus Christ and through this alone (Rev. 7:14).

THIS dont send an alarm off Sister to study this out more in detail?






 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
Ephesians 3 and Hyper-Dispensationalism
07/18/2010 - Jamin Hubner

Ephesians 3 is a key text for hyper-dispensationalists because it marks the beginning of the Dispensation of Grace.[1] Paul unveils the mystery of the church, and this ends the ancient Dispensation of Law and introduces a new structure, a new gospel, and a new basis for doctrine in the church. It also suggests (according to them) the absolute distinctiveness of the Apostle Paul.

It is therefore important that we observe the full context, which is found below. The text is in the NASB, with the Greek word οἰκονομίαν (“dispensation” in KJV) in bold:

1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles-2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you; 3 that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. 4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,7 of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God's grace which was given to me according to the working of His power. 8 To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, 9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; (Ephesians 3:1-9, NASB, bold mine)

Clearly, the mystery being talked about in verse 2 is unveiled in verse 6: “that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.” It was a surprise to the New Testament Jews (like Paul) to learn that the good news promised for thousands of years in the Old Testament wasn’t just for Jews; it was for anyone who believes. The promises that were given to Israel don’t just apply to them; they apply to Gentiles as well. The promises of God in the Old Covenants are now applicable for all whom Jesus Christ intercedes. That’s it. That’s the mystery in Ephesians 3.

Of course, this isn’t the only mystery in Paul’s letters. He uses the same word (μυστήριον) in Colossians 1:25-27 where the meaning is generally same, but there is more elaboration; the mystery involves the fact that “Christ is in you, the hope of glory.” Thus, at its heart, the “mystery” is Paul’s way of describing unique features of the New Covenant.

Finck comments:

The Mystery is not found in Old Testament Scriptures, or to be even more precise, Old Testament Scripture or pre-Old Testament Scripture. You will not find the Mystery in Genesis; you won't find it all the way through the Old Testament; you won't find it in the Four Gospels. It was a secret. It was not revealed until the Apostle Paul… What does the Mystery include? The Mystery includes this present Dispensation of Grace. You won't find this dispensation revealed in the Old Testament. It's not there. The Mystery includes the fact that Jew and Gentile are brought together on equal ground, equal footing in Christ. That is the Mystery. You won't find that in Old Testament Scriptures.[2]

One can see how Finck automatically assumes that “mystery” = “dispensation of grace.” The reality, however, is that Paul’s mystery is nothing more than one of the numerous and unique features of the New Covenant. So, what about the mystery and the OT? Robert Reymond decisively replies to the dispensationalist:

The Old Testament did testify concerning the future blessings which the Gentiles would share with the Jews (see Gen. 9:26-27; 12:3 [see Gal. 3:8]; 22:18; 26:4; 28;14; Pss. 67; 72:8-11, 17; 87; Isa. 11:10; 49:6; 54:1-3 [see Gal. 4:27]…). What was not so clearly revealed in the Old Testament times was that the Gentiles would be on “a footing of perfect equality” (Hendriksen) with the Jews in Christ’s body, the church…Paul’s statements do not teach the radical conclusions which dispensationalists wish to draw from them, namely, that the Old Testament saints did not know that the Messiah would be rejected and suffer or that a distinction must be drawn between Old Testament Israel “under law” and the New Testament church “under grace,” and that these people are two people of God who are “not to be intermingled or confused, as they are chronologically successive.”[3]


The Mystery Revealed to Paul Only?

Hyper-dispensationalists believe that the “Mystery” was given to and unveiled by the Apostle Paul and him alone. However, this assertion is a bit problematic.

In Ephesians 3, Paul says the “mystery,” (v. 3) “has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets,” (v. 6). All of the New Testament authors understand the mystery because they are “in the Spirit.” This obviously includes Paul, since he says “which was given to me.” However, Paul doesn’t exclude everyone else. He says “prophets,” not “I, Paul, a prophet.” He says “apostles,” not “I, Paul, the only apostle.” Colossians 1:26 bears the same conclusion: “the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints.” The mystery Paul is talking about was not revealed to him only, but to other Christians.

The hyper-dispensationalist cannot believe this. To concede on this point would be to forfeit the “absolute distinctiveness of the Apostle Paul” for which Hyper-Dispensationalism was founded. Hence,

We are sometimes asked: "Did not others before Paul speak of grace?" Yes, others before Paul did speak of grace, but before we assume too much from this, let us consider a few basic facts: It is not merely Paul, but the inspired Word which declares that "the dispensation of the grace of God" was committed to him (Eph. 3:2) and that it was his "ministry... received of the Lord Jesus" to make known "the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20:24). This claim was made for none of his predecessors, nor did any of them even mention the dispensation or the gospel of the grace of God so far as the record is concerned.[4]

How does the hyper-dispensationalist deal with the plural “prophets and apostles” in Ephesians 3:2 and “saints” in Colossians 1:26? We’re simply not told. It is just assumed that Paul is the one actually revealing the mystery (active), not the one observing it (passive) in seeing the church unfold as Christianity continues to grow in the first century (i.e. "so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known" Eph. 3:10) and in Christ himself ("This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord" 3:11).

In any case, because hyper-dispensationalists believe the Apostle Paul was the first and only person to discover “the mystery,” it is suggested that Paul is introducing an entirely new gospel. This conclusion, along with the other serious errors of Hyper-Dispensationalism, will be dealt with in the next post.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1] This isn’t necessarily true of all hyper-dispensationalists. Some believe the Dispensation of grace begins at Pentecost, others in Acts 13, and still others in Acts 28:28.

[2] Finck, The Mystery, 23.

[3] Robert Reymond. A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1998), 540-41.

[4] Cornelius Stam. “Paul, the Apostle of Grace.” August/September, 2002
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
barrykind

You keep talking arithmetic, while Paul taught calculus. No wonder you can't understand GRACE.
 

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Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :
 
So, Barry you are now a Church of Christ/SDA.
Baptism is not a requirement for salvation.
You cannot prove Berean Bible Society is a cult so you just keep throwing out stuff hoping something will hit the fence.
betty
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
I tell you Betty; if i knew nothing about the Berean Bible Society except wildBill was one i would run from it..He is obnoxious, rude, name calling, in considerate person that i have ever seen on this board in the 8 years + ive been here!

He does not answer with scripture or explaining scripture he answers with silly childish remarks that makes me question his sanity, and salvation..

enough said..be happy with them if you like...

But i posted what was wrong with the Berean bible Society, and you and Carol still dont get it...................Discounting everything but Paul's writings is ludicrous!
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
ENOUGH SAID!



 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 

quote:

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I tell you Betty; if i knew nothing about the Berean Bible Society except wildBill was one i would run from it..He is obnoxious, rude, name calling, in considerate person that i have ever seen on this board in the 8 years + ive been here!

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quote:

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But i posted what was wrong with the Berean bible Society, and you and Carol still dont get it...................Discounting everything but Paul's writings is ludicrous!

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quote:

---

Originally posted by yahsway:
I have been away for some time now and have read a lot of the post here and have to say that just from reading Wildb has been rude ect..

I do not agree with everyone here on their post but do agree with what BarryKind said. sory if that offends but its just based on what i have read here.

On the subject of Paul and what He said about "all SCRIPTURE being profitable" ect.., he was speaking of the Old Test and its entirety. There was no New Test cannon at that time. This was a letter he wrote to Timothy speaking of the only Scriptures they had at that time.

And re-read what he actually says about the Old Test "All scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for "teaching", for reproof, for correction, "for training in righteousness",so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

This Paul says of the Entire Old Testament. It wan't until the Nicean Council got together and added the writings of the apostles to the Old test scriptures thus calling these writings the New test. This was done sometime in 300AD.

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quote:

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agree with very little Barry post. He thinks we still have to obey the Old Testament laws. He thinks that we should worship on Saturday and he believes we need works added to grace to be saved. Nope, Barry and I do not see eye to eye. Barry, bless his sweet little heart feels he is somehow a better Christian because of what he believes. He still refused to tell me how he is doing the animal sacrifices, which was a requirement of Old Testament laws.
betty

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1) Comment : you said i believe we have to obey OT Laws...Thats a "loaded" question Sister, if i was to say no we dont have to obey Old Testemant Laws, then i would be saying its ok to steal, covet whats thy neighbors, its ok to take God's name in vain, etc....
If i were to say yes i believe that we have to keep the OT Laws..then im branded a "legalist"!

You give me no way to win, nor be right in your eyes....

Yahushua stated: If you say you love me and keep not my commandments, then your a liar!

2)

quote:

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He thinks that we should worship on Saturday

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quote:

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he believes we need works added to grace to be saved.

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quote:

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Barry and I do not see eye to eye. Barry, bless his sweet little heart feels he is somehow a better Christian because of what he believes.

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quote:

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He still refused to tell me how he is doing the animal sacrifices, which was a requirement of Old Testament laws.
betty

---

Sorry not intentional...i do not do animal sacrifices, nor do i think that we are suppose to:

there are truly some 613 laws, commandments, statutes and judgements in the Torah.

Hebrews tells me that once Yahshua died on the Cross, animal sacrifices are no longer used, because we have a perfect sacrifice, the blood of bulls and goats never forgave sin; it "covered" sin. Yahushua not only forgave all past sins at the time of my conversion, upon conviction of the Holy Spirit, i repent, ask forgiveness and our advocate pleads our case with the Father [YHWH].

The "Law", "commandments" are written on my heart!

"Ten", and anything else the Father puts on my heart>

I think i have explained this before, i do not eat pork...Why? i feel YHWH put it on my heart not to..none of my immediate family has eaten any pork for around 15 yrs. [Once again, i did not tell anyone to eat or not to eat pork]

Do i think that "work" saves me; well if i really believe that YHWH told me not to eat pork, [or what ever YHWH leads me to do or not to do],would it not be at least "rebellion" which is as the sin of witchcraft to YHWH?

i was called a liar here. Now i do not think that i have lied at all, and no one has shown any evidence of a wilful lie that i have told here.

Even if i did tell a lie, that does not make one a liar....If one tells a lie, and repents he is clear with YHWH. One that wilfully, lies, and becomes a liar..He is not going to heaven folks!
All LIARS have thier part in the LAKE OF FIRE! The SECOND DEATH...to call on a liar is a very serious offense, worse that calling thy brother a FOOL!

Another reason OSAS cant be right, because if one coninually lies, and has no repentance, and becomes what YHWH calls a LIAR, he will not enter heaven!


Revelation 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


i think i answered all your statements and questions..


 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 
"i was not a backslidden sunday schooler, i was a vile sinner, and he[barry] whom HE forgave much, also loved much... Jan 18, 1983........"

Why your still wet behind the ears son.

Me a 17 yearold dropout living on the streets waiting for my enlistment papers to go thru, was filled with the Spirit 10,27,1975..then went to boot camp training 3 days later.


 

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Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :
 
Christians often have to work on Saturday and Sunday. There was a time when I had to work to take care of my children. I worked in a hospital and I worked on Sundays. I felt guilty at first, but I begin to see how I could show the love of Christ to the patients that had to be there on Sunday. Now I am blessed not to work and I worship God in my Church on Sundays.

We have to be careful not to judge those who work on Sunday or Saturday. Remember Jesus said if a sheep fell in a ditch on the Sabbath, a person would pick it up out of the ditch. If our house catches on fire we would call the fire department to come on Saturday or Sunday. It has been said many many times here that Jesus is our Sabbath and that days were made for man not man for days. We as Christians should honor Jesus every day. Sometimes honoring Christ is working physically for a widow or shut in. I have seen my dad who has now past on work Saturday and Sunday fixing things for widows after putting in a 40 hour week at his job. I have seen him come home from Church on Sunday and then take a motor out of the Church buss and work on it. We can honor God in many ways including working.

We need Christian firemen, police office and military.

My problem with Barry is his arrogance. It comes out in his post all the time. We should not take pride in what day we worship. What good is worship to God if we then use that worship to fill our hearts with pride and look down on others? Does God take pleasure on someone who does that?
betty
 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by yahsway:
WildB, LOl,you haven't changed a bit my friend!

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quote:

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Originally posted by yahsway:
changed jobs since we last spoke. Better job and much better pay, although now its 12 hour shifts.
7p-7a, oh well.

had minor surgery Last week so i am off work a few days and have had some time to catch up here with you guys.

i miss helpforhomeschoolers, does she ever frequent this bbs?

Luv ya too you crazy thang!

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quote:

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:
WildB, you say the Berean Bible Society is not a cult, I say it is ....I think we may be able to settle this with a simple definition.

please give me your / their definition of Saving Grace?

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quote:

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as i am not a very lernid person, i would like time 2 talk to our Christ befor i post.

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That is wisdom sir and i can certainly RESPECT that!


 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
o by the waqy bill, i know you misspell things on purpose...
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
A man that answers too quick, to me is not wise...some things require prayer and patience!

and i can really appreciate that sir...


You take as long as neccessary, for the LORd to speak to your heart..

Thankyou for your honesty and love for the truth!


 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 







 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by WildB:

quote:

---

Originally posted by WildB:
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

---

Barry , Because explain this verse 2 the best of your wisdom.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:
WildB, you say the Berean Bible Society is not a cult, I say it is ....I think we may be able to settle this with a simple definition.

please give me your / their definition of Saving Grace?

---

quote:

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4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

---

quote:

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6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

---

 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
Carol posted:

quote:

---

Rudeness is not limited to vocabulary. What you said here about WildB is very rude.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But i posted what was wrong with the Berean bible Society, and you and Carol still dont get it...................Discounting everything but Paul's writings is ludicrous!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You're the one who's ludicrous. It was Paul who wrote this!

2 Timothy 3:16 - 17 (NASB)

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

What we don't get is why you say they discount everything but Paul's writings when Paul said, and THEY say, all scripture is profitable.

Paul was knocked off his legalistic, judgmental high-horse and saved by grace. You will be too if you are sincere.

---

quote:

---

You're the one who's ludicrous. It was Paul who wrote this!

2 Timothy 3:16 - 17 (NASB)

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

What we don't get is why you say they discount everything but Paul's writings when Paul said, and THEY say, all scripture is profitable.

Paul was knocked off his legalistic, judgmental high-horse and saved by grace. You will be too if you are sincere.

---

i did not say you, nor wild, were ludicrous;[although you did call me ludicrous] i stated that discounting all but Pauls writings is "ludicrous"...i know they quote "All scripture is given for profit..tim 3: 16-17; but they say if you would read the writings of Stam, and J.C. O'Hair...they state that those other writings are for the Jews; not for the "church" today which is in the "dispensation" of Grace!

They quote the scripture but preach "ANOTHER" "GOSPEL" !
sister......

more later..


 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by barrykind:

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quote:

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WildB

Advanced Member
Member # 2917

posted October 28, 2010 04:22 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by barrykind:



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Why do you post this ? Its offensive and gay when followed by your spamming.

--------------------
That is all.....

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Posts: 3705 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |

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quote:

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Originally posted by barrykind:
Bill edited my quote within his quote to read:

quote:

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WildB

Advanced Member
Member # 2917

posted October 28, 2010 04:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by barrykind:



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Why do you post this ? Its offensive and gay when followed by your spamming.

--------------------
That is all.....

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Posts: 3705 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |

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Bill your exposed sir!

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
You asked how Paul's message was different, and that's what I answered, although I'm not WildB. (Hope he doesn't mind).

---

quote:

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:
WildB , I am trying to understand this new thing that Paul is teaching that is suppose to be different than what Jesus taught, can I use the whole book of 2 Timothy or are there certain verses I should leave out?

Does the Berean Bible Society except 2 Timothy as acceptable for the Gentile dispensation of Grace?

my question was specific to the use of 2 Timothy....being as the Berean Bible Society reject so much of the rest of scripture as for the Church dispensation we are now in.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Responsibility and Discipline- or -2 TIMOTHY 2:15 IN CONTEXT

http://www.gracepoints.com/articles/gpresponsibility.php

"Used by permission of the Berean Bible Society."

---

quote:

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Does the Berean Bible Society except 2 Timothy as acceptable for the Gentile dispensation of Grace?

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Guess who wrote 2 Timothy?

(Guess Who taught him what to write?)
 

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Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :
 
My goodness Carol, the next thing you will have us believing is that Paul wrote the letters to Timothy.


Have a blessed morning. This old lady is going back to bed. This is way to early for me to be up.
betty
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
LOL

Sleep well
 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by becauseHElives:
I could say the same to you WildB...about verse 23 but , no matter...

24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

---

Yet you post on any ways.

Riddle me this?

How does one judge another about instructing other's, with meeknees when grafted into the tree of opposition?

Definition of OPPOSE

1
: to place over against something so as to provide resistance, counterbalance, or contrast
2
: to place opposite or against something
3
: to offer resistance to
— op·pos·er noun
Examples of OPPOSE


The governor opposes the death penalty.
The change is opposed by many of the town's business leaders.
The group opposes the mayor and is trying to find a candidate to run against her.
You've opposed every suggestion I've made.
He met the man who will oppose him in the next election.
These two teams opposed each other in last year's playoffs.
We're hoping we can get more senators to oppose the legislation.

The Becausehelives oppose,s The Gospel of Grace because it takes the power away from the Curse of the LAW.
 

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Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :
 
Paul says this rom 6:1

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not. How shall we who have died to sin live any longer in it?


14: For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under ghrace.

Everyone who does not know Jesus is under the Law.
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
WOW! Right on!
 

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Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :
 
So Carole, you agree that being "under the law" is everyone that does not know Christ?

And- that following the law after knowing Christ, having that law written on our hearts is okay?
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
carol must have fell asleep...
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
THE SHAM
DOCTRINES
of
“HYPER or ULTRA
DISPENSATIONALISM”
some of the recognized false teachers are:

E.W. Bullinger
Cornelius Stam
Charles Welch
Otis Sellers
A.E. Knoch
J.C. O’Hair
Charles Baker


by W.B. Howard ...editor of despatch
Please contact us if you have any further queries about the above material. As noted already not everything can be covered in this one small exposé booklet. We have not really dealt with other teachers than Bullinger; the teachings of Stam are similar, as noted and are just as confusing.

We can offer you a bigger A3 chart of the following extract from Charles Larkin’s material.
(We have permission from his Estate to distribute his material.)
Endtime Ministries P. O. B. 1265, Burpengary. Q. 4505

despatch@mail.cth.com.au


THE SHAM DOCTRINES OF
HYPER-DISPENSATIONALISM.
By W.B. Howard.
The Endtime Church of Jesus Christ has been facing so many fake doctrines, silly fads and utter shams that the mind boggles at the extent of it all. We are certainly in the last of the Last Days with all the accompanying spiritual traps that Jesus Christ warned us of in God’s Word. The Antichrist system is being established before our startled eyes, and Satan himself is bringing in powerful LIES, both in the world at large and in the very churches that profess to serve Jesus Christ. “Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,” 11 Timothy 2:9. Be on your alert, Christian, this flood of lies and deceptions has not ceased yet, he that thinks he stands safe and sound in doctrine, be careful that he doesn’t fall into error through self confidence! Depend on Christ at all times, keep close to God in obedience, study His Word diligently.
“Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.”
1 Corinthians 10:12.
A destructive SHAM entered the scene many, many years ago; it is false doctrine that often appeals to Bible believers who are fundamental and sound. Good old fashioned believers are often those who fall prey to this sham. It seems to promise deeper and more scholarly understanding of the scriptures. The deception I refer to is HYPER-DISPENSATIONALISM. You may have encountered this false interpretation method, or it may well have attacked you already and you have succumbed, have fallen? If the latter is the case, please read on with much prayer for wisdom and truth, depending only on the Holy Spirit. Do not defend this ramshackle method of Bible study, do not become distressed because you have been deceived – come back to the Truth of God’s Word in humility, He will set you free:
“Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.” John 16:13.
That giant of the Christian Faith, Harry Ironside, once asked what a foremost Greek scholar in America thought of Hyper Dispensationalism. It was asked in reference to his evaluation of one of the CHIEF HERETICS who were spreading Hyper Dispen-sationalism, Dr. E.W. Bullinger, and in regard

to Bullinger’s “private translation” of the New Testament. Below is the conversation between the two men, Dr. A.T. Robertson and H.A. Ironside, Litt.D., as recorded in Ironside’s book, “Wrongly Dividing the Word of God”:
(IRONSIDE) I said, “Doctor, would you give me in a few words your estimate of this work, and give me the privilege of quoting you as occasion may arise?”
He (ROBERTSON) replied, “I can give it to you in two words, Piffle and Puffle, and you may tell any one that that is my estimate of this vaunted translation.”
We agree that Hyper-Dispensationalism is indeed Piffle and Puffle, as are the doctrinal efforts of Bullinger!
Hyper-Dispensationalism can look innocent enough at the start, but will result eventually in an almost complete departure from “the faith once delivered to the saints”. BEWARE. Despatch is totally against Hyper-Dispensationalism, it is a disaster. Sadly, there seems to be a growth in this deception happening in our midst in 2005, this is why we must warn our readers. We have encountered a number of groups in recent months.
WHAT ARE THE BASIC TENETS
OF HYPER-DISPENSATIONALISM?
These are some of the recognized false teachers
of Hyper or Ultra Dispensationalism:
• E.W. Bullinger
• Cornelius Stam
• Charles Welch
• Otis Sellers

A.E. Knoch
• J.C. O’Hair
• Charles Baker
• This system of study and application of God’s Word limits the Scriptures that apply to the Christian Church of the New Testament. Thus the proponents of Hyper-Dispensationalism, believe that only the writings of PAUL THE APOSTLE TO THE GENTILES are applicable to the Christian Church, and only these writings can be used for doctrine, exhortation, church discipline and practical living instruction et al. Hyper-Dispensationalism teaches that Paul’s revelation is entirely different to even the other Apostles’ teachings in


the New Testament. The belief is that all the books and teachings of Scripture other than Paul’s are to be rejected as pertaining to the Church’s doctrines and instruction in righteous living from God.
... 2 ...
• Hyper-Dispensationalism shows that the Four Gospel books are Jewish and have no teaching in them for the Christian Church. This is an awesome error, for it repudiates the very authority of the Gospels of Christ themselves!
• The Book of Acts is likewise rejected for the Church as being mostly Jewish.
• Hyper-Dispensationalism teaches that the gospel preached by Peter in the Book of Acts is another gospel entirely from the gospel preached by Paul. If this were the case then either Peter or Paul must have a curse upon them, one or the other should be excluded from Scripture, for the Bible states:
“As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:9. There is only ONE Gospel recognized by the Lord.
... 3 ...
• The writings of Paul are seen as mysteries given to Paul for the Church Age, but Baptism and the Lord’s Supper are seen as being given to Paul before the Church Age revelations were shown to him by God. So, Baptism and the Communion are rejected as being not for the Church. (HyperDis. believers differ here, some reject both Baptism and Communion, others one or the other). The Hyper-Dispensationalism belief is that Paul did not receive his especial revelations for the Church until he was imprisoned in Rome. So that the only portions of Scripture given to the blood-bought members of Christ’s Body are the prison epistles – all other writings of Paul’s, other than the prison epistles and the general epistles, are seen as being just instructions for the Jewish church of that period of history.
• How impossibly limiting this is!
... 4 ...
• HyperDis. brings a wholly unacceptable division between the ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ and the ministries of the Apostles. Then it goes further and makes untenable division between Paul’s teachings, Peter’s teachings and the teaching of all other Apostles. It projects invalid distinction that is destructive, thus bringing confusion and loss of priceless, precious Scriptures to the victims of the sham. It is a system that should be rejected utterly, lest great harm be done to individuals and fellowships.

• The errors of the core teacher of Hyper-Dispensationalism, E.W. Bullinger, are enormous; he was a man of division, inaccuracy and of arrogant pride. By their fruits we may know these teachers. Does Bullinger pour forth a fountain of purity? Hardly, brackish, dirty water cannot bring forth the pure, sweet water of God’s Word.
• Here is what Ironside had to say of Bullinger:
“Having had most intimate acquaintance with Bullingerism as taught by many for the last forty years, I have no hesitancy in saying that its fruits are evil. It has produced a tremendous crop of heresies throughout the length and breadth of this and other lands, it has divided Christians and wrecked churches and assemblies without number; it has lifted up its votaries in intellectual and spiritual pride to an appalling extent, so that they look with supreme contempt upon Christians who do not accept their peculiar views; and in most instances where it has been long tolerated, it has absolutely throttled Gospel effort at home and sown discord on missionary fields abroad. So true are these things of this system that I have no hesitancy in saying it is an absolutely Satanic perversion of the truth. Instead of rightly dividing the Word, I shall seek to show that these teachers wrongly divide the Word, and that their propaganda is anything but conducive to spirituality and enlightenment in divine things.”
The reader can write for more on this subject from Ironside,
ask for “Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth”,
by H.A. Ironside, Litt.D. Cost including postage, $10.
SHALL WE PROCEED?
What is needed is armour that protects from this deception; it is yet another deadly trap that threatens God’s people today. What is that armour? We need the pure Word of God and instruction in its Truth; truly the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but spiritual, to the pulling down of strongholds:
“Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with TRUTH,
and having on the breastplate of righteousness;” Ephesians 6:14.

Read more here:


www.despatch.cth.com.au/Books_D/hyperdispensationism.pdf

This is a perverted "false Gospel" it is ANOTHER GOSPEL.

It is not the Gospel of Yahushua, the Apostles, and not ther Gospel according to Paul!


BEWARE OF FALSE "GOSPELS"...

Oh the precious bbody of Christ, and my fellow laborers in the "TRUE" Gospel... There are certain men have crept in unawares and are delivering a FALSE GOSPEL>>>ANOTHER GOSPEL..

Whose mouths must be stopped!

Jude 1
1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

2Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

17But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

20But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.





4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


This is a verse that states that there are some, that has turned "grace" into a license to be "lascivious"


greek word: ἀσέλγεια
#766

1) unbridled lust, excess, licentiousness, lasciviousness, wantonness, outrageousness, shamelessness, insolence


Grace us wonderful and without it none of us could have ever been saved....

Ultra-dispensationalism as taught by Burlinger, Stam, J.C. O'Hair et; el;

is ANOTHER GOSPEL....As seen in not only the above pdf document; but in countless examples myself along with others has shown on this board..


WHAT ABOUT THE FOUR GOSPEL BOOKS,
THE BOOK OF ACTS,
& PETER & PAUL & THEIR GOSPELS?
One would think that this booklet would be entirely unnecessary, how could any Christians actually fall for Hyper Dispen-sationalism? - in these days, anything goes! There are groups and individuals out there who are deeply involved in Hyper-Dispensationalism.
• How did they get into such a piffle and puffle?
Maybe there is something in a lot of us that likes to have a special understanding of the “truth”, beyond those around us, that embraces novel and academic sounding “deeper” teaching, “secret men’s business”!
• What is the answer we can have to the rejection of the four Gospels and the Book of Acts; to the contentions that Peter and Paul taught different Gospels?
Sounds bizarre doesn’t it?
THE GOSPELS.
To imagine that the Gospels which tell the glorious story of Jesus Christ from His birth to His death and resurrection could have no teaching and relevance to the Church is unbelievable. They contain the beauty of
9the very words and actions of Jesus Christ as He ministered whilst here on earth, the parables, the prayers, the miracles of our Lord. To say they are entirely Jewish and not for the Church is outrageous.
The book of Hebrews shows us that the Gospel that was preached by the apostles was the very Gospel preached by Jesus Christ. Yes, Jesus Christ spoke to the Jewish nation in different ways than to the Church, because He was leading them into the New Covenant in His Blood, and had not yet been crucified, He had not yet risen from the dead. The book of Hebrews also opens up the New Covenant, but NOT exclusively for the Jewish nation as we see in Hebrews chapter one.
* Read this carefully and you will see the opening up of the glory of the Son of God as “the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person,” as God speaking to the whole world of His work of “purging our sins” in His Blood.
In Hebrews chapter two we see NO disparity between the Gospel preached by Christ and the Gospel preached by the apostles, as the Hyper-Dispensationalism teachers claim.
It is the SAME Gospel.



 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 
Hyper or Ultra Dispensationalism is not Dispensationalism.


"the teachings of Stam are similar, as noted and are just as confusing"

If the teachings of Stam are confusing to you then you best pick up your snakes and drink your poison thats after your clovenized tongue speak's so others can understand in there own language.

But please sell all that you have and give me my share before you do this.

Please stop your sillyness.

It is clear to all your inability to rightfully divide the word.

Plow on Berry, plow on.
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
wildb states:

quote:

---

Hyper or Ultra Dispensationalism is not Dispensationalism.


"the teachings of Stam are similar, as noted and are just as confusing"

If the teachings of Stam are confusing to you then you best pick up your snakes and drink your poison thats after your clovenized tongue speak's so others can understand in there own language.

But please sell all that you have and give me my share before you do this.

Please stop your sillyness.

It is clear to all your inability to rightfully divide the word.

Plow on Berry, plow on.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by barrykind:
wildb states:

quote:

---

Hyper or Ultra Dispensationalism is not Dispensationalism.


"the teachings of Stam are similar, as noted and are just as confusing"

If the teachings of Stam are confusing to you then you best pick up your snakes and drink your poison thats after your clovenized tongue speak's so others can understand in there own language.

But please sell all that you have and give me my share before you do this.

Please stop your sillyness.

It is clear to all your inability to rightfully divide the word.

Plow on Berry, plow on.

---

Quit Stamming Bill''

C.R. Stam, J.C. O'Hair along with the above listed folks "preach" ANOTHER GOSPEL, plain and simple!

1 Corinthians...written by Paul!


36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

38But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

40Let all things be done decently and in order.

---

quote:

---

If the teachings of Stam are confusing to you then you best pick up your snakes and drink your poison thats after your clovenized tongue speak's so others can understand in there own language.

---

No Stams teachings are not at all confusing to me sir...There false teachings born of satan himself to take away of the TRUE GOSPEL!

Stams confusion on scripture is to his own undoing....Anyone who rejects the words of Yahushua as to the Jews only..is confused in his own right!

Dont follow those "ultra" lies as perpetrated of the enemy; there is only "ONE" TRUE GOSPEL and Paul did not contradict it, nor any of the Apostles.

I cannot believe the lies of "another Gospel" [that you believe] are so defended by anyone of True Faith!

The is no "ecumenical" endorsement of such false teachings just for the sake of peace!

No not at all!

Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Yahushua came with a sword of the spirit and dividing between the soul and spirit, joints and marrow!

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart!


 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by barrykind:
Bill in his post stated:

quote:

---

If the teachings of Stam are confusing to you then you best pick up your snakes and drink your poison thats after your clovenized tongue speak's so others can understand in there own language.

---

No Stams teachings are not at all confusing to me sir...There false teachings born of satan himself to take away of the TRUE GOSPEL!

Stams confusion on scripture is to his own undoing....Anyone who rejects the words of Yahushua as to the Jews only..is confused in his own right!

Dont follow those "ultra" lies as perpetrated of the enemy; there is only "ONE" TRUE GOSPEL and Paul did not contradict it, nor any of the Apostles.

I cannot believe the lies of "another Gospel" [that you believe] are so defended by anyone of True Faith!

The is no "ecumenical" endorsement of such false teachings just for the sake of peace!

No not at all!

Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Yahushua came with a sword of the spirit and dividing between the soul and spirit, joints and marrow!

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart!

---

quote:

---

Then you best pick up your snakes and drink your poison thats after your clovenized tongue speak's so others can understand in there own language.

But please sell all that you have and give me my share before you do this.

Please stop your sillyness.

Do I have to babe sit you again till AunteC gets back?

I really need to get out and split some wood.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by barrykind:
bill states: [i need a rubber stamp for that]

quote:

---

Then you best pick up your snakes and drink your poison thats after your clovenized tongue speak's so others can understand in there own language.

But please sell all that you have and give me my share before you do this.

Please stop your sillyness.

Do I have to babe sit you again till AunteC gets back?

I really need to get out and split some wood.

---

Your following the wrong spirit bill, pray that you can see with your eyes and hear with those ears sir.

Some of the things disscussed here are the most serious issues that can face us...and you act as tho its a sill game..

Be forwarned sir; these are most serious matters;

and why is many times your posts edited by Carol?

Can you communicate as so not to bring railing accusations?

we have proved beyond any reasonable doubt that C.R. Stam, J.C. O'Hair; and others [but these being the main false teachers of the Berean Bible Society teaching "ANOTHER GOSPEL", and leading some astray such as yourself.

The evidence is there and anyone, anyone [in the body of Messiah] {Christ} that has a "love" of the "truth" can see thru this veil of hypocracy!

Those leaders are now deceased and some carry on thier false torch! "another gospel"


www.despatch.cth.com.au/Books_D/hyperdispensationism.pdf


much more links to expose this false "another Gospel" if you want them

---

quote:

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Originally posted by barrykind:
Bill read the entire bible sir!

---

quote:

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errory STUDY the entire Bible.


Now go away your starting to bother me.

---

hopefully the word of YHWH Yahweh will convict you sir!



 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by barrykind:
bill states:

quote:

---

errory STUDY the entire Bible.


Now go away your starting to bother me.

---

hopefully the word of YHWH Yahweh will convict you sir!

---

quote:

---

First off speak English.

The Lord judges me not you. The Spirit convicts me not you.

and most importantly, don't miss this....

The Father Loves me to provide all this for me not you.

---

quote:

---

Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.


Proverbs 26:5
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by barrykind:
bill states:

quote:

---

First off speak English.

The Lord judges me not you. The Spirit convicts me not you.

and most importantly, don't miss this....

The Father Loves me to provide all this for me not you.

---

Sir do you not understand the english letterw YHWH..ond day you surely will!

and the english word and letters Yahushua?


You start you ugly arrogance, and rudeness when your losing an argument...

Causing me to be on the borderline and probably have crossed over into strife..


Im done with you if David allows your teaching of "another gospel", its not my place to keep on showing the truth.......


Enough of you sad evil teachings, and arrogant name calling, of which Carol has had to edit many times, and your name calling of Christ and calling HIM a liar..im sorry but im done with you sir..The Lord has given me direction to leave you to your folly!

Bible says:

quote:

---

Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.


Proverbs 26:5
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by barrykind:
Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.


Proverbs 26:5
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
I think he does.

Paul used the expression "another gospel" in Galatians 1 when he was describing the legalists who perverted the Gospel of Grace.

barry is trying to take Paul's words and apply them to the exact opposite of the way Paul intended them! barry is saying that the Gospel of Grace is another gospel.

Either barry has never studied Galatians, or else he feels qualified to twist scripture to mean the opposite of its original meaning.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Turning the Grace of God into Lasciviousness

---

quote:

---

Carol Swenson

Moderator
Member # 6929

posted October 30, 2010 03:51 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Turning the Grace of God into Lasciviousness


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Sounds like the Family International

http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Loving_Jesus

Sickening

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quote:

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quote:

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WildB

Advanced Member
Member # 2917

posted October 31, 2010 06:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Berry worthy walk?

"Now that being said, i think the Berean Bible Society went off base, but not with just this teaching in itself...that the Church did not start..until Paul; but the twisted view of grace that it holds...."


Carol Swenson

Moderator
Member # 6929

posted October 30, 2010 04:11 AM
barrykind

quote:
This is what this false gospel that the Berean Bible Society teaches.....fleshly grace;

Not the true grace of Yahuhsua and Paul, and the apostles..

Shame on you, barrykind. Shame on you. This is not what they teach at all. You are bearing false witness.(AGAIN)

From the Berean Bible Society...


Christian Walk

Not only does understanding the gospel of the grace of God provide a proper motive for us to share our faith, it also gives us the proper motive and means to live the Christian life effectively.

Proper Method

By what method or means are we enabled to live a proper Christian life? The fact that a proper walk is desired by God is evidenced by the many times in Paul’s epistles that we are exhorted to “walk worthy” or to practically live up to what God has called us to be in Christ. In Ephesians 4:1 Paul beseeches us that we would “walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called” (Eph 4:1). (See also Rom.6:4; Eph. 2:10; 5:8; Col. 1:10; 2:6; 4:5; I Thes. 2:12; 4:1).

But while we may readily admit the need to live in such a way that honors Christ, we also ask “How?” What is the means to living what some call a “victorious Christian life”?

Some would have us believe that the way to walk worthy is to “speak the word of faith” and to command Satan to leave us alone. Any lapse or failure to achieve victory is blamed on us. “You didn’t have enough faith” we are told. Unfortunately, those who try to live out this misapplied teaching find themselves frustrated because it simply does not work in this present evil age. In this age, we are not exhorted to bind or rebuke Satan, but to put on the whole armor of God so that we can stand against him:

“Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand” (Eph 6:11-13).

THIS is the secret to a dynamic Christian life! Not in “speaking the word of faith” or other such New Age and in some cases, occultic practices! There is no magic formula, no quick and easy shortcut to Christian maturity and victory. Maturity comes only as we read and submit to God’s Word in our life. Victory comes only by the daily sacrifice and submission of ourselves to God (Rom. 12:1-2).

Proper Motivation

The gospel of the grace of God also gives us the proper motivation for living righteously before God. Our primary motivation to live as we should is the overwhelming love of God that is poured out upon us (Rom. 5:5; II Cor. 5:14; Gal. 5:6; Eph. 2:4; 3:19). It is this love that is supposed to motivate us to in turn love God and others (Eph. 5:2).

The reason that we are separated from the world and unto God is not because of some legalistic mindset, but because of our love for others. Paul says that he is careful to not offend the unsaved (Jews or Gentiles) or the saved (the church of God) and that he doesn’t seek his own profit, “but the profit of many, that they may be saved” (I Cor. 10:32-33).

This is why we refrain from certain activities. Not because we think we are more pious or holy than others, but to make sure that we do not place a stumbling block in front of them (i.e., trip them up) spiritually.

“We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. For even Christ pleased not Himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached Thee fell on Me” (Rom. 15:1-3).

And:

“But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak… And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ” (I Cor. 8:9,11,12).

We see that the love and grace of God toward us and our love for others for the sake of the gospel should constrain us to live righteously and holy in this present evil age. Our motivation should not be what pleases us, but that which leads to the edification and salvation of others.

Another seldom mentioned aspect of the dispensation of Grace that should motivate us to walk as we should is the Judgment Seat of Christ. As stewards we will be required to give an account before God as to how we have administered the gospel that He has entrusted to us (Rom. 14:12; I Cor. 4:2; II Cor. 5:10).

We do not have to ever worry about eternal damnation or judgment for sin because that was paid for by the blood of Christ and we are secure in Him (Rom. 8:31-34; Col. 2:10).

However, there will be an accounting. Just as God’s love compels us to serve Him (as that of a son who wants to please his earthly father), fear of His displeasure likewise motivates us as well. Just as an earthly son does not want to experience the displeasure of his father, so we should also be concerned about our Father’s displeasure at the Bema Seat of Christ.

But we must remember that displeasure does not equal damnation or loss of sonship. My son may do something that displeases me, but that will never change the fact that he is my son and heir. While there is nothing that can change the established fact that we are sons of God and heirs with Christ, this does not mean that our Father cannot be displeased with us, either here or at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

This is why Paul, speaking of the children of Israel, writes in I Corinthians 10:5, “But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.” And he goes on to say, “Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted” (I Cor. 10:6). Paul is saying that just as God was not well pleased with many (not a few) of the Israelites, He is often not pleased with the Church, the Body of Christ today—in a practical sense. The Israelites were still His chosen people. We are still members of the Body of Christ. But being in the Body of Christ and knowing certain truths does not mean that we are living in such a way that is well-pleasing to God.

Some believers have unfortunately (and to their detriment) misinterpreted II Timothy 2:15. They mistakenly think that “study” simply means to academically study God’s Word and know the facts about God’s program for today as revealed through the Apostle Paul.

To “study” means to be diligent. Diligent unto what? Diligent unto the end of being “approved unto God.” Approved unto God refers to the Judgment Seat of Christ (II Cor. 5:10). What will be judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ? Our knowledge of the Scriptures? Our knowledge of “right division”? No! What will be judged at the Bema Seat of Christ are “the things done in his [our] body, according to that he [we] hath done, whether it be good or bad.” Notice that it is our works that will be judged—our walk, not our talk.

The last part of II Timothy 2:15 “rightly dividing the Word of truth” is the means to the end, not the end itself. “Rightly dividing the Word of truth” or knowing God’s program for today is what gives us the means or way to “be diligent” and live our life in such a way that we will be “approved unto God” at the Bema Seat of Christ.

Berean Bible Society
http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/999291000.html

--------------------
That is all.....

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Posts: 3801 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |

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Actually Carol stated: Exactly:


[QUOTE] Carol Swenson

Moderator
Member # 6929

posted October 30, 2010 02:11 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
barrykind


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what this false gospel that the Berean Bible Society teaches.....fleshly grace;

Not the true grace of Yahuhsua and Paul, and the apostles..


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shame on you, barrykind. Shame on you. This is not what they teach at all. You are bearing false witness.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4955 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007 | IP: Logged |
You make it look like the whole post is Carol's in its entirety....Time stamp dont look right either unless carol posted it twice..could not find another shame on me any where..



 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
I posted the article yesterday

http://thechristianbbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=007467;p=2
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
Yesw mam thats what i thought but it ws the short version and not the other part,,
Thanx....i love kitty cats...
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
What part of my previous posts Sister Carol do i not make my self clear or, do you think im off base?

Does Not the Berean Bible Society state:

1) water baptism is not for the church today?

2) The Church actually started with Paul and his learning of the "Mystery"?

3) That the 4 Gospel [albeit] are true and relevant; there not relevant for the "body of Christ"..the "church" of today; in which Paul started with the gentiles?

3)Do not those of the BBS, state that the books[edit sp] of James, Jude, Most all of acts is not for the Church of today?

Did i misquote anything so far sister?

i will get into more about the rest after i hear about your answer...

Now im not being contentious dear Sister Carol, i want to go point by point and research all the points out one by one;

i dont want to "false accuse " anyone..lets study closely..if you will.

Edit this [add] I know that many Hyper-Dispensationalists do not think that the "communion" "the Lord's supper" is for today; im not sure what the BBS teaches on that doctrine:..[end edit]


 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
im not talking to you bill, iwas asking Carol


 

---

Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by barrykind:
What part of my previous posts Sister Carol do i not make my self clear or, do you think im off base?

Does Not the Berean Bible Society state:

1) water baptism is not for the church today?

2) The Church actually started with Paul and his learning of the "Mystery"?

3) That the 4 Gospel [albeit] are true and relevant; there not relevant for the "body of Christ"..the "church" of today; in which Paul started with the gentiles?

3)Do not those of the BBS, state that the bood of James, Jude, Most all of acts is not for the Church of today?

Did i misquote anything so far sister?

i will get into more about the rest after i hear about your answer...

Now im not being contentious dear Sister Carol, i want to go point by point and research all the points out one by one;

i dont want to "false accuse " anyone..lets study closely..if you will.

Edit this [add] I know that many Hyper-Dispensationalists do not think that the "communion" "the Lord's supper" is for today; im not sure what the BBS teaches on that doctrine:..[end edit]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by barrykind:
Yesw mam thats what i thought but it ws the short version and not the other part,,
Thanx....i love kitty cats...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by barrykind:
What part of my previous posts Sister Carol do i not make my self clear or, do you think im off base?

Does Not the Berean Bible Society state:

1) water baptism is not for the church today?

2) The Church actually started with Paul and his learning of the "Mystery"?

3) That the 4 Gospel [albeit] are true and relevant; there not relevant for the "body of Christ"..the "church" of today; in which Paul started with the gentiles?

3)Do not those of the BBS, state that the books[edit sp] of James, Jude, Most all of acts is not for the Church of today?

Did i misquote anything so far sister?

i will get into more about the rest after i hear about your answer...

Now im not being contentious dear Sister Carol, i want to go point by point and research all the points out one by one;

i dont want to "false accuse " anyone..lets study closely..if you will.

Edit this [add] I know that many Hyper-Dispensationalists do not think that the "communion" "the Lord's supper" is for today; im not sure what the BBS teaches on that doctrine:..[end edit]

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quote:

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Until the Middle Ages, most baptisms were performed with the candidates completely naked—as is evidenced by most of the early portrayals of baptism (some of which are shown in this article), and the early Church Fathers and other Christian writers. Typical of these is Cyril of Jerusalem who wrote "On the Mysteries of Baptism" in the 4th Century (c. 350 A.D.):

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