This is topic No Oscar Nod For God?? in forum Christian Video Clips, Movies , Church Webs TV at Christian Message Boards.


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Posted by mohawk (Member # 2898) on :
 
Not surprising in the least. The most impactful, not to mention popular, film of 2004, Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" was all but completely shut out of the Academy Award nominations.

Is it any wonder? Not only does it espouse a subject that many in Hollywood loathe (or must pretend to loathe in order to be perceived as "hip" and/or hold onto their jobs), but it also served as Mel Gibson's reaching the level of "untouchable" in the entertainment biz. Actors who don't need Hollywood anymore--an elite club indeed. So he's labeled a kook.

Technically "Passion" is a foreign film... but that doesn't void it's qualifications as a potential "Best Picture" nominee, or Gibson himself from being a "Best Director" contender. The Academy's list of 2004 nominees is meant as a message to "Jesusland"--make no mistake. How about Jim Caviezel? Not even a "Best Actor" nom for him? What a blatant rip-off.

Did any other film hold court at theaters the way "Passion" did? Not by a long shot. The Academy is simply pretending "Passion" does not exist and turning away. Too bad. One day soon it will be impossible to pretend the Son of God doesn't exist. Pray for these people.
 

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Posted by Lunarius (Member # 4205) on :
 
You are right mohawk. One day many will come to realize that the Son of Man does exist and that it is impossible to deny this. However, the sad thing is that even during and after the final events are taking place, many people will STILL not budge from their current beliefs and opinions that reflect wordly living rather than Godly living.. how sad indeed.

I can't say this for sure, but I may be one of the only (if not THE only) Christian who has not had the chance to see "The Passion of the Christ." Of course I really want to, but recent and current goings-on in my life have not given me the opportunity. Most likely a few weeks from now, this statement will be void, but in the meantime I take your comment to heart in a place of interest regarding the film not being nominated for anything. I don't follow the Academy Awards, nor am I even aware of who is nominated most of the time. So my question to everyone reading this is: From the standpoint of who you are, and what you know, having seen "The Passion," does it truly deserve nominations? I mean, we know the film does not NEED to be awarded, but the reason I ask the former is because I just want to make sure that those who speak out against the fact that it has had none are making sure that the events and makings of the movie warrant that kind of award and recognition in the general sense of filmmaking (though compared to some of the other movie mess that has apparently surface this past year I would venture to affirm this myself, even without having seen it yet).

Once I see the film I will know my own opinion of course, but I would dislike knowing that Christians have spoken out or gotten themselves in an uproar for the sake of Hollywood nonsense, when we know that the film doesn't need awards anyway.. because all people need is to interpret the truth behind its message which itself leads to the greatest, most priceless reward of salvation.


 

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Posted by mohawk (Member # 2898) on :
 
Hi Lunarius

All politics aside, "Passion" is really an Oscar caliber film. I am speaking in terms of the craftsmanship of its production. It isn't just sour grapes because the Academy is poo-pooing "Passion" out of a secular bias, or fear of controversy.

The film moved people. Yeah, some complained about the gore and violence, and referred to it as a "religious action movie," but no other film out there had people re-examining their very lives on their way out of the theater, like "Passion" did. I suggest renting or buying the DVD--since you probably will not find it playing the cineplex anymore. See it yourself and make your own decision.

If nothing else, I cannot see how Jim Caviezel was not even worthy of (even a grudging) nod from the Academy... it was a performance I will dare say not many of the best-actor nominees could've pulled off. A nomination here was the least they could've offered. Yes, again I sound like I am whining, but I have made part of my living in the performing arts... and it doesn't take a good actor to spot a great one. Jim deserved at least a nomination.
 

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Posted by mohawk (Member # 2898) on :
 
One more note. I just emailed the Academy this afternoon and (politely) commented upon their oversight of not nominating Jim Caviezel. I suggest other like-minded folks should do the same.

I won't post the website here--you can find it by typing "Academy Awards" or "Oscars" into your search engine.

See you in the popcorn line!
 

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Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 
Comment by Paula Zahn on her CNN Programme "Paula Zahn Now -"The Passion" took in $26 million in just its first day and ended up as last year's third biggest money-maker, taking in a staggering $370 million in the U.S., more than $600 million worldwide."

What does that tell you? I am not at all surprised at the snub by the Academy. It looks very political indeed.
 

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Posted by Robby (Member # 448) on :
 
(Jesus Christ) He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.--John 1:10

And the world still doesn't know the Son of God! Yet I praise the Lord for all the lives who have been changed because of the film.

If I could start something, I'd wish everyone would have a "Passion Party". Instead of viewing the Oscars, that people would invite company into their homes or churches and watch the Passion of the Christ. Afterwards, then, have a time of prayer and reflection.

Oh well, I could always hope people would do it...
 

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Posted by danny458 (Member # 4378) on :
 
Well... politics and religion aside, the Passion was a good movie, but not award winning in my opinion. Good acting, but not great, good effects, but not great, predictable story line :-)

So it made a lot of money... what other movie in modern history do you know of that had organized groups (in this case, churches) sending people by the bus load to see the movie? There was lots of preaching encouraging people to bring their friends... thus causing many Christians to see the movie more than once... Plus all the contraversy before the movie started gave it a load of free advertising as well! Energizing Christians to see it, and causing many others to see it just to see what the fuss was all about!

Michael Moore didn't do too well either... does the academy have a pro bush bias???
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
danny458

So you are saying that The Passion should not win because we knew how the story would end. Well, we knew how the Ray Charles story would end and it won.
As for Moore his movie was just a way to try to make President Bush look bad. I would not go accross the street to see it and I dont' even like what President Bush does.
 

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Posted by danny458 (Member # 4378) on :
 

quote:

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As for Moore his movie was just a way to try to make President Bush look bad.

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quote:

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By the way, it seems to me that your dislike of "Passion"

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Never said I didn't like it. My main disagreement with you is over the conspiracy theory. I personally think its one of the best Jesus story movies ever made. (I liked the Matthew series personally, but I'm sure others didn't)

You mentioned in the original post that it was the most impactful movie of the year. Maybe it was for you, but its not as impactful for one who does not believe... which I can only assume (but will let God judge) the judges weren't believers, so why would it have as much impact on them?

Every year after most any award show, the Oscars especially, there is always complaining about certain movies, actors, actresses, directors, etc... that don't win.

As far as James Caviezel, yes he did a great job. If he would have won the award, that would have been great... but there are so many great actors out there. And every year you can hear complaints about who wasn't nominated. I simply don't buy the conspiracy argument.

And again, the money... if there was not the support and zeal from the conservative Christian community, the money earned would've been much less. I remember hearing a pastor mention that the church had prebooked an entire theater for multiple nights so church members could bring friends to see it. Don't you agree that those actions inflate the money earnings? I have one friend who saw it 5 times. I don't think that was uncommon either...
 

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Posted by mohawk (Member # 2898) on :
 
Well Danny

Thanks for your honesty, and sorry for my cattiness. You shut me up (partially). Actually you made some very intelligent points, and my clarification was simply that my point was the Academy wouldn't have upturned any applecarts by giving out a best-actor nomination, even if the award itself didn't come through. Only one actor can win, but there is no limit on the number of nominations that can be issued. I felt that leaving "Passion" out was biased on a level other that cinematic, and I still am not unconvinced of that.

As for the box-office numbers being stacked by church groups and people seeing the movie multiple times: that is actually a somewhat flawed statistic in my opinion, because quite a few movies have their receipts "stacked" in the same way. Do you think there were people who saw the last "Star Wars" movie more than once? And could there have been loyal fans who viewed it as a "group event" they would repeat? And... how did all those people buying multiple tickets effect the box-office numbers? It's the same issue. It doesn't invalidate "Passion's" numbers. any more than it does those of "Star Wars."

I apologize for misinterpretting your last post, concerning "conspiracies." A conspiracy isn't always the doing of an evil cabal, though. I realize Michael Moore's film was attacked by a blatant cabal of people, all of the same political persuasion (not necessarily all evil-minded) who went as far as to film counter-documentaries!

Frankly I enjoy when rational, adult conversation prevails--especially between those who may not agree.
 

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Posted by Robby (Member # 448) on :
 
Word is the movie will be re-released as "The Passion Recut" in March to theaters across the country. But this time, it will be a re-cut version with less violence. So keep a lookout for it.
 

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Posted by volodymyrdolgoruki (Member # 4400) on :
 
If the Passion won an Oscar, Mel would get it not God.

God didn't write or make that movie, Mel did.

God wrote the Bible, and the Passion does not follow the Bible very much.

If you say God was leading Mel in making the movie, then God contradicts Himself, which can't happen.

That would also make Mel a Prophet, bringing NEW word and revalation of God.

Don't elevate this movie.

Put The Gospel of Matthew, The Gospel of John, or Acts up for an Oscar, graet Word for Word movies.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
volodymyrdolgoruki,

The movie Passion Of The Christ is a very powerful movie which brought about a renewal of revival around the world and has helped to bring many many non-believers to Jesus Christ!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
Amen volodymyrdolgoruki!!!!!!

You speak the truth of God and are truly led by His Holy Spirit.

God bless you.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
For any one who has not done so they should see The Passion Of The Christ before trying so hard to tear it down! This powerful movie brought about a very renewed world wide revival and has brought many many to Jesus Christ!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
It is so interesting volodymyrdolgoruki, that the "Jesus" movie, based exclusively on the Book of Luke, in a multitude of different languages, has literally won millions to Jesus over the years.

Yet we find the evangalicals throwing such support behind a counterfeit, (based on the Dolorus Passion of Christ). Kind of like encouraging your friends to receive Jesus, by giving them the Book of Mormon because it does mention Jesus, or to study the Bible from the New World Translation to learn sound doctrine.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
The Passion Of The Christ has indeed won many many non-believers to Jesus Christ and the movie itself was very well produced and filmed. Perhaps some of you haven't seen it and perhaps you should before deciding you should tear it down!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
http://www.jesusfilm.org/aboutus/index.html

Many mission experts have acclaimed the "JESUS" film as one of the greatest evangelistic success stories of all time. The ultimate success of this project won't be measured by how many people have already seen it, but by how many will follow Him after seeing this film.

Through use by The JESUS Film Project, and more than 1,500 Christian agencies, this powerful film has had more than 5 billion viewings worldwide since 1979. On top of that, the great majority of those heard the story of Jesus in a language they easily understand.

As a result, more than 197 million people have indicated decisions to accept Christ as their personal Savior and Lord.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A Christian Church should support the truth. Not buy out blocks of theatre tickets to present a counterfeit.

I would never give one searching for truth, the New World Translation of scripture, or the Book of Mormon.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
The Passion Of The Christ is most assuredly not a counterfeit at all and it has won ever so many many non-believers to Jesus Christ which is definitely very important!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by volodymyrdolgoruki (Member # 4400) on :
 
Gramajo320 I speak the TRUTH in LOVE

The Passion does not follow scripture.

It is not rooted in The Word of God

In fact it cntradicts it in many many places.

God Does Not Contradict Himself

Our Faith MUST MUST MUST be rooted in TRUTH, God's Truth ALONE
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
Volodymrdolgoruki,

I totally disagree with you and no I'm in no way deceived whatsoever! You cannot deny the fact that The Passion Of The Christ brought about such a tremendous renewed revival around the world and many many non-believers around the world were won to Jesus Christ! Winning souls to Jesus Christ is what's really important!

I have my beliefs and you have yours. I will not debate this with you at all!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by mohawk (Member # 2898) on :
 
Let's see, "Passion of the Christ" portrayed Jesus as being crucified for the sins of mankind, and then being resurrected. Is that what some of you folks are calling "counterfeit?" Hoo-boy. Are you saying that ISN'T what happened??

Once again, as I mentioned in a post elsewhere--I think some people have come to follow and worship their own sectarianism, rather than admit the Lord works in ways bigger than their church by-laws (typed up nice and neat and framed over the sanctuary) say.

I don't view "Jesus" and "Passion" as being in competition. Some unsaved were more prone to come to Christ watching "Jesus" and others needed what "Passion" showed them, in order that their eyes be opened. If just ONE PERSON out of the millions who saw "Passion" came to God because of it... PRAISE THE FATHER! AMEN!

(But I'd be willing to say that there was more than one.)

I'm sorry, but my Lord Jesus is too big to fit in the box some think they've got Him in. Just like that... tomb, 2,000 years ago.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
Mohawk,

Amen, how true, and God bless you! I agree!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by volodymyrdolgoruki (Member # 4400) on :
 
If I took the time and effort to post the untruths in the movie would you HONESTLY exam and evaluate them.

Will you be like those from Berea

(Acts 17:11) Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.


NEVER be afraid to search for truth
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
Volodymyrdolgoruki,

For the final time The Passsion Of The Christ is a very powerful movie, it brought about a world wide revival, it won ever so many many
non-believers to Jesus Christ! Winning people to Jesus Christ is what is so very important and that's a fact that cannot be denied.

I will reiterate to you that I will not debate this movie with you and that is what I meant!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
Volodymyrdolgoruki,

You do not know me whatsoever so you will please not be so presumptuous as to make any such statements or judgements about me whatsoever ever again! I DO KNOW GOD'S TRUTH! It's indeed very sad that all you're wanting to do is to continue to debate and to tear down! Please walk in the spirit not the flesh!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by Favor Minded (Member # 3636) on :
 
ANYONE who claims that The Passion is not of God, is not rooted in scripture, does not follow the gospels, etc. is quite plainly deceived.

How sad -

I will pray for the deceived ones who would serve to tear down something that God has used so mightily to present Jesus to the people, to have Jesus be the topic of conversation in more places than EVER in history -

Deception and lies would tear it down and try to prevent people from knowing the truth -

It will be interesting when these so called truth knowers have to stand before God and say

"Lord, I felt in was not scriptural so I stood against it - And he will say HOW COULD YOU try to stop something that I HAVE USED TO BRING MORE PEOPLE TO CHRIST, PUT JESUS IN THE HOMES OF MORE PEOPLE THAN EVER BEFORE IN HISTORY, PUT JESUS ON MORE NATIONAL SECULAR NEWS CHANNELS THAN EVER BEFORE, and make Jesus the topic of discussion in more places than ever before - "

Not since he was alivein the Flesh has he been more prevalent -

But then you TRUTH knowers can explain to God himself how you stood against it!

DO YOU REALLY THINK that God wants you to tear it down?

You are the deceived, NOT the other way around...
 

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Posted by volodymyrdolgoruki (Member # 4400) on :
 
I am decived?

How do you explain the parts in the movie that are contrary to SCRIPTURE???

ONLY Scripture is TRUTH!!!

Satan takes truth and blends a little bit of lies into it.

Others have been doing it ever since

This movie does the same.

The ONLY way to JUDGE the movie is in the LIGHT OF SCRIPTURE.

In that LIGHT the movie fails.
 

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Posted by volodymyrdolgoruki (Member # 4400) on :
 
Show me IN SCRIPTURE where satan was in the garden of Gethsemane tempting Jesus?


(Matthew 27:19) While he was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent him a message, saying, "Have nothing to do with that righteous Man; for last night I suffered greatly in a dream because of Him."

Whay does the movie show her telling Pilate this in person.
This point may be trivial, by couldn't he have used truth? Why did he have to cahange it??


In the garden of Gethsemane Mel added words to Jesus prayers that were NOT in the Bible.
Is The Truth not enough??

There is much more wrong with this movie.

Where in The Bible does it have the woman wipping up the blood of Christ with the white cloth??

(1 Timothy 4:7) But have nothing to do with worldly fables fit only for old women. On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness;

2 Timothy 2:15-17
(15) Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, ACCURATELY handling the word of truth.
(16) But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,
(17) and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,

(2 Timothy 2:23) But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels.

(Titus 1:9) holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.

Titus 1:10-11
(10) For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
(11) who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain.


Your right if being decieved means BELIEVING SCRITURE ALONE and REJECTING THE TEACHING OF MEN.

God is PURE

Man CORRUPTS
 

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Posted by Study (Member # 3991) on :
 
If “The Passion of the Christ” is going to be picked apart, then we might as well pick apart all the other bible base movies. The Ten Commandments for instants. Where in the Bible does it say that Moses actually stumped around in the mud pit? Where in the Bible does it say Pharaoh’s wife had Moses brought from the mud pit to seduce him. Where does it say he saved his mother from a stone rolling over her? Where does it state that the woman was thrown out the window when she wanted to reveal Moses was a son of a Hebrew?

Even if The Passion of the Christ movie was meant for evil, God can turn evil around for his Glory.

My ½ cent.

God bless us all
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
Favorminded,

Amen! Excellent posting and God bless you! I'm in total agreement with you!
Study, God bless you also!

In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by mohawk (Member # 2898) on :
 
What I think is sad, is that some people think they have God in a box, that only they can cast criticism, that only they are "annointed" to give a yay or a nay. Pardon my bringing this up at the risk of bursting anyone's bubble: WE ALL FALL SHORT of God's standard, and have salvation only by His Grace.

May I also remind everyone (did you forget?) that the Devil can quote scripture.

Are those who found salvation in Christ, because they found it after seeing "Passion" still unwashed? The people who picked up a Bible for the first time, after seeing "Passion"... are we telling them "whoops, nope, that was just a false alarm--go back to the world, you don't qualify for God's family yet"??

This is exactly the kind of nit-picky legalism that makes those who are still babes in Christ wonder if they made a right decision.

Let's use this logic on another film about Jesus and see how it holds up: The Bible definitely states that Jesus was tempted by Satan while on the cross (Luke 23). Well... that was exactly what "The Last Temptation of Christ" used as its whole plot! Do you therefore prefer that film over "Passion?"

I think that some people are a bit resentful of "Passion's" success. The point is, "Passion" takes Jesus more seriously than any "Hollywoodized" version of the gospel. That may be why some people (even some Christians) grope desperately for any trifling element to try and discredit the film.

Jesus (who was with God in the beginning, and is Himself God, as John reminds us) really did suffer unimaginable horrors on His way to the cross--He really did die for the sins of man--and was physically resurrected in triumph over death and the grave. "Passion" shows all of that, in defiance of the secular guffawing of Hollywood--and apparently also the subconscious fears of some within the church.

Rip pages out of your Bibles and throw them at me. I feel God's provision of courage in saying these things.
 

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Posted by Study (Member # 3991) on :
 
If, “The Passion of the Christ” saved one soul! That is more than any Oscar sitting on a shelf. The seed was planted and God will give the increase.

How many times have we listen to a sermon and the Pastor/Preacher have given their inserts of what they image happen back in those days in between the scriptures. And I’m sure we have done the same also. Mel gave his inserts used his imagination, as with all Bible base moves. None of us was back there and can only imagine, base on scripture.

Lets stop nick picking and allowing the enemy to divide the body of Christ.

I love you all in Jesus name.
 

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Posted by Favor Minded (Member # 3636) on :
 
Yes - You are indeed deceived if you believe in this way.

God uses the power of such a thing to bring about real change - Real awakening.

I noticed you did not even touch on my questions? Why is that?

I see you totally missed the fulfilment of prophecy in the scene you mention in the movie.

That scene, in the garden, was the fulfilment of Genesis 3:14

14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,

"Cursed are you above all the livestock

and all the wild animals!

You will crawl on your belly

and you will eat dust

all the days of your life.

15 And I will put enmity

between you and the woman,

and between your offspring [a] and hers;

he will crush [b] your head,

and you will strike his heel."

You mention Claudia - Claudia is not mentioned in the Bible - Only in History as being Pilates wife. Do you think that a Pastor of a church should speak ONLY scripture, and never use any other words? Do you think that when you speak to someone about Christ, you should only quote from the bible, and not use ANY other words in your speaking?

The movie was made based on what the Gospels agree on.

Do you not think it possible that Claudia spoke to her husband, that she may have disagreed with him?

Do you know that white linen was used as a symbol of purity? She gave these to the Marys as a symbol of her belief that he was pure. Why is that hard to accept? HOW does that detract from the signifigance of the monumental sacrifice that the last 12 hours of the life of Christ was??

HOW??

The Gospels do not say what happened in the background while the guards were busy taunting him, sticking a crown of thorns on his head, hitting him and helping to fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah that says he would not be recognizable as a human.

WHo are YOU to say that they DID NOT wipe it up? What would YOU DO if it was YOUR SON? He WAS HER son! SHE bore and raised him.

Silly things to use as examples of what detracts from the movie. It does NOT detract - And God has USED THIS MOVIE MIGHTILY!

How will you STAND BEFORE THE ALMIGHTY GOD and say I TORE DOWN THE MOST POWERFUL TOOL YOU USED TO BRING 1000's upon 1000's back to Christ.

How will you stand and tell him that you stood against what he was trying to accomplish?

Jesus became the topic of more secular arenas that EVER before! Still today - The movie was viewed by more that 70% of Americans!!!!

How can you stand and say that God wants you to tear it down? Do you honestly think he would allow these to be deceived?? And, if so, HOW ARE THEY BEING DECEIVED?

By being presented with the enormity of the sacrifice? By understanding the britality he endured for us? By seeing the painful fulfilment of prophecy in the messiah and seeing the power of his love for them, despite what they did to him?

By watching him crawl onto the cross, willingly fulfilling the will of God?

You should find some other great witnessing tools God has created and used and tear those down too!

Why stop at just one? There has to be some that have reached as many as The Passion has? I can't think of any but there must be.
 

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Posted by volodymyrdolgoruki (Member # 4400) on :
 
The fulfilment of prophecy occueed ON THE CROSS
NOT in the Garden, but that doesn't really matter does it.


The bible says

(Matthew 27:19) While he was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent him a message, saying, "Have nothing to do with that righteous Man; for last night I suffered greatly in a dream because of Him."

She SENT HIM A MESSAGE, not went and talked to him.

Some people BELIEVE that Jesus went to America and taught the Indians in the years before He started His ministry.

Shall we accept that also?


So people teach that Jesus went to India and that area before He started His ministry.

Shall we also accept that?

What about the people who wrote the lost books of the Bible, shall we start teaching from them also?


When you start down the slippery slope of adding to or altering The Holy Living Word of God, where does it end???



I BELIEVE in the Sufficiency of Scripture. It's ALL we need for Godly living

2 Timothy 3:16-17
(16) Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, [and] for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God's will in thought, purpose, and action),
(17) So that the man of God may be complete and proficient, well fitted and thoroughly equipped for every good work.



I BELIEVE in The POWER of God's Word

Hebrews 4:12-13
(12) For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
(13) And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.



I BELIEVE it is The Word Of God ALONE that brings life to a dead soul

1 Peter 1:23
(23) You have been regenerated (born again), not from a mortal origin (seed, sperm), but from one that is immortal by the ever living and lasting Word of God.



Does man HAVE to or NEED to add to, alter, change or make palitable The Holy Word Of God???

NO


I will stand firm, by and thru His Grace and Word ALONE
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
volodymyrdolgoruki,

You will have much to answer for on Judgement Day as you stand before God and you try to explain how you just want to tear down such a great witnessing tool as this movie has been and continues to be! It's very apparent that all you want to do is continue your tearing down and your debating which is so wrong to do! You will please start walking in the spirit and quit walking in the flesh! The Passion Of The Christ has won ever so many many souls to Jesus Christ and it continues to do so! It's way past time for you to give it a rest!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by Bloodbought (Member # 4365) on :
 
Many Christians are of the opinion that the passion of the Christ movie is a tool that can evangelise the world and bring thousands to faith in Christ, that’s fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. There is nothing I would like more, than to see people being converted to Christ in thousands, but I don’t believe a movie can do it and here is why.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing , and hearing by the word of God.

Faith comes by hearing and a movie that is intended to bring faith by sight is a violation of this biblical principle.

2 Cor 5:7 (For we walk by faith , not by sight )

I would give the spoken Word the award as far as bringing people to faith in Christ.

God bless you all.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
The Passion Of The Christ has been and continues to be an evangelizing witness all around the world and thousands upon thousands have been won to Jesus Christ which is and still remains the very most important thing! Those won to Jesus Christ do indeed study the bible to learn more!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
Volodymyrdolgoruki,

You will please keep from judging me whatsoever for you know nothing about me or what's in my heart! The Lord and our Heavenly Father do know and that's all sufficient for me! I do walk in the spirit and the Holy Spirit leads me in many areas. Tearing others down is perpetuating satan's work not the Lord's work! Please walk in the spirit not the flesh!

Now it's totally past time to give all of this a complete rest!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by volodymyrdolgoruki (Member # 4400) on :
 
I WILL NEVER NEVER REST FROM PROCLAINING TRUTH AS LONG AS HE GIVES ME THE GRACE TO CONTINUE

But it looks like you didn't even READ what I posted.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
Volodymyrdolgoruki,

There is a huge difference between proclaiming Jesus Christ's truth as opposed to tearing others down!
I'm certain you know that so you will please walk in the spirit not the flesh! Jesus Christ's work is all about winning souls to Jesus Christ!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by Bloodbought (Member # 4365) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gramajo320:
The Passion Of The Christ has been and continues to be an evangelizing witness all around the world and thousands upon thousands have been won to Jesus Christ which is and still remains the very most important thing! Those won to Jesus Christ do indeed study the bible to learn more!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

---

How do you know it’s the movie and not the study of the word that’s winning people to Christ?
 

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Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 
volodymyrdolgoruki, I enjoy reading your views, but I find that some of your posts make personal attacks, and you could be accused of that dreaded word that none of us Christians like to hear, "judgmental."

That doesn't mean you can't give your own personal views, but there are ways of doing it so that posters can't accuse you of attacking them personally.

Hoping you will stay.
 

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Posted by volodymyrdolgoruki (Member # 4400) on :
 
Gramajo320 and everyone else.

I apologize for my lack of civility, and my judgemental attitude in posting in this topic.

My intent is not to attact you, but point out the lack of truth in the movie, Truth being Scripture.

I will keep the posts aimed in this direction.

You didn't make the movie so don't take my critisisun of the movie personally. OK?


But I also ask the same civility from you.

Defend the movie if you must.

Just don't say I'm wrong in doing so (Unless you point out lies or misquoting Scripture) or that I'm going to stand in judgement for critiquing the movie, or that by doing so I'm not in the Spirit.

Is this fair?
 

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Posted by mohawk (Member # 2898) on :
 
Hello everyone

Wow, what a storm brewed up over this topic...

The movies, like it or not, are about the most powerful form of artistic communication. We all watch them--we all form opinions on them. There are dozens of films depicting the story of Jesus, and hundreds of films that feature Jesus in their story lines. "Ben-Hur" for example, shows Jesus in one or two very brief scenes.

It is very likely that no single film depicting Christ, gets every detail perfect. In fact, very very few films about ANY subject, get every detail. But that does not mean they are to be interpretted as an attack on the subject matter. The silent film by D.W. Griffith, "Intolerance" depicts Christ's crucifixion, without ever showing the resurrection. Yet the film is, by all practical means, very respectful and reverent. Griffith was not denying the resurrection by leaving it out--it was simply not the focal point of the film's message. (The crucifixion was). The creation of art involves the imagination and the exploration of ideas. And we possess creativity because... we are made in the likeness of The Creator; that's what The Book says.

If possessing an imagination is condemned, then any child who has ever played with a toy or made up pretend games should be locked up and preached at until they are completely "deprogrammed" from such ungodliness and void of any desire to "play" again... right????? Uh... no.

I defend "The Passion," knowing full well it is only a movie. It does not replace the Bible as the official telling of Christ's sacrifice. But it DOES stir in people an interest in finding out more... which leads them to seek out sources of information (including the Bible most definitely) that may just lead the heart to Christ. How do I know this? Well... read it here, for openers!

God works in ways that are above ours. He uses things as tools that might just baffle, confuse (perhaps even incense) some of His servants down here--because He can seem to operate by methods that don't conform to our selfish vision of how we think He OUGHT TO work.

To attempt to dictate what God is capable of doing--or likely / unlikely to do--based upon one's own faulty human intuition, or a tunnel-visioned interpretation of scripture, is to put God "in a box" and own Him. Well, He will not be owned. We need God, but He doesn't need us to determine what His methods "should" be. We have salvation ONLY because He has extended His Grace to us, through Christ.

If we could dictate the conditions by which He could bestow Grace upon us, then Christ would have been crucified for nothing.

What a sermon, here in the Movie forum, huh? Sorry to step on anyone's toes... but we've spent this entire thread sticking our toes out... and I started the thread!


May God bless this exchange, His children who are participating, and a lively discussion of His Word. Amen.

 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
To my Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus our Lord:

I want to make one final statement before I leave the Passion movie behind me. Not one spoken word in favor of or opposed to the movie, posted on a BB, will make much difference. The movie has been shown, and will continue to be so.

My fervent prayer is that any who see the movie, who do not know our Lord Jesus as personal Lord and Savior, might be moved to seek Him in His Word, and to study God's true and eternal revelations of Him as He was manifest in the flesh, dwelt among us, sacrificially bore our sins and iniquities, and set His children free.

May each of us seek more and more of our Lord Jesus Christ, and less and less of ourselves. May we seek His eternal truth, His Way, His Life, and may the lost and hurting be our top priority.

Beloved in Christ, our God reigns from everlasting to everlasting, and may all Glory, all Honor, all Praises be given from our hearts unto Him.

God bless each of you my Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 

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Posted by volodymyrdolgoruki (Member # 4400) on :
 
Here's something to ponder.

If the movie had been more Bible, truth centered;
Less man made centered:

More the True Word of God in it;


(Romans 10:17)
So faith comes by hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the preaching [of the message that came from the lips] of Christ (the Messiah Himself).

(Hebrews 4:12) For the Word that God speaks is alive and full of power [making it active, operative, energizing, and effective]; it is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating to the dividing line of the breath of life (soul) and [the immortal] spirit, and of joints and marrow [of the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and sifting and analyzing and judging the very thoughts and purposes of the heart.


Could God haved used it even more powerfully?

Would it had made any difference?

Would more people come to faith?

Would more peoples faith grown?


I say WITHOUT A DOUBT
YES
 

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Posted by freaknpv (Member # 4423) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gramajo320:
The Passion Of The Christ has been and continues to be an evangelizing witness all around the world and thousands upon thousands have been won to Jesus Christ which is and still remains the very most important thing! Those won to Jesus Christ do indeed study the bible to learn more!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

---

OK, I dont deny the power of and that for the most part that the Passion was powerful and effective for the believer, but to say it won "thousands upon thousans" to Jesus goes contrary to all data and reality.

A George Barna survey done in July of 2004 found

"the most startling outcomes drawn from the research is the apparent absence of a direct evangelistic impact by the movie. Despite marketing campaigns labeling the movie the “greatest evangelistic tool” of our era, less than one-tenth of one percent of those who saw the film stated that they made a profession of faith or accepted Jesus Christ as their savior in reaction to the film’s content"

That means that if 2 million people saw this movie that, would mean that less than 1000 where won to Jesus, now thats awesone, dont get me wrong, 1 is awesone but that is hardly thousands upon thousands.

The Passion succeeded in 2 areas helping christian get a better understanding of what our Lord suffered and making Mel Gibson a whole lotta money.

Now dont hurt me Im new
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
Freaknpv,

That same survey was posted quite some time ago and at the bottom of the survey it told the total number of people surveyed which was only a little over 1,600 which certainly is not representative of ALL the people around the world. The Passion Of The christ has won thousands and thousands of people to Jesus Christ and that is ALL that matters!

By the way Mel Gibson is a christian.


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by freaknpv (Member # 4423) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gramajo320:
Freaknpv,

That same survey was posted quite some time ago and at the bottom of the survey it told the total number of people surveyed which was only a little over 1,600 which certainly is not representative of ALL the people around the world. The Passion Of The christ has won thousands and thousands of people to Jesus Christ and that is ALL that matters!

By the way Mel Gibson is a christian.


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

---

quote:

---

The Passion Of The christ has won thousands and thousands of people to Jesus Christ and that is ALL that matters!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by volodymyrdolgoruki:

quote:

---

The Passion Of The christ has won thousands and thousands of people to Jesus Christ and that is ALL that matters!

---

Where did you get this stat. Where is the data showing thousands and thousands.

If you make a claim be prepared to back it up.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bloodbought:
How do you know it’s the movie and not the study of the word that’s winning people to Christ?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by HisGrace:
[QUOTE]God uses human vessels in many ways through music, inspirational books and words of knowledge to convict people. For example, you must agree that if a Christain sees a fellow believer being led astray, a concerned brother/sister can bring insightful words to that person to bring them back into the fold.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bloodbought:
As I pointed out from scripture in an earlier post, faith comes by hearing, not by sight. When people hear the good news that Jesus took their sins and took the punishment for sin on their behalf, the power of the Spirit and the Word can bring them to Christ.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by volodymyrdolgoruki:
Think it's time to get the focus OFF the movie.

People view truth from different perspectives:

Some see black and white

Others see varrying shades or Grey.


The REAL questions are

1. How much is your faith growing?

2. How is it being manifested to the lost?


#1 MUST lead to #2 or it's meaningless

---

quote:

---

Not only does it espouse a subject that many in Hollywood loathe (or must pretend to loathe in order to be perceived as "hip" and/or hold onto their jobs)

---

quote:

---

You most assuredly do not have any personal knowledge of Mel Gibson whatsoever so therefore you should not be judging him nor tearing him down!

---

quote:

---

Mel Gibson is a man who consistently takes God's name in vain in his movies. He also "condones" sex outside marriage and other sinful things in his movies.

---

quote:

---

God hates me

---

quote:

---

Hate Him back, it works for me

---

You say this is OK???
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
Volodymyrdolgoruki,

You totally miss the point and lack understanding of what I posted. In addition to that I refuse to debate with you for it's so apparent that is all in this world that you prefer to do much of the time in threads.


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
To Nobleweb, Bloodbought, volodymyrdolgoruki, please know that opposition to the "Passion" movie is not popular, and those of us who find the cinematic presentation of Catherine Emmerich's the "Dolorus Passion of the Christ", repugnant, are going to be chastised. The demonic vision of the deluded nun, presented in all its gory Roman Catholic detail literally has turned my stomuch and repulsed me. It is the same as when I see the materials from a JW, or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, genuflecting before the statues of Mary, or any other cultic presentation.

You will be chastised with "Judge not!!", "it has brought millions to Christ", "only God can judge!!!", "how can the presentation of the Gospel be wrong", etc, etc, etc,.

For me to view this work, is like taking the true Living Waters and mixing it with pure SEWAGE. I am repulsed and my stomuch churns when I view such preversion of the Gospel of my precious Lord Jesus Christ. This movie has literally made me sick to my stomuch.

Please know Nobleweb, Bloodbought, volodymyrdolgoruki, that there are some here that support your position in regards to the "Passion" movie.
 

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Posted by volodymyrdolgoruki (Member # 4400) on :
 
Thank You and God Bless you Drew.

Father God, open the eyes of the blind to see the Truth. Your Truth, rather than man's concept of it.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
To those of you who continue to tear down the movie The Passion Of The Christ one day you will know that you have been and are wrong in doing so for you know not the true facts!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
If anyone desires to read the primary source for the movie here it is:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.jesus-passion.com/DOLOROUS_PASSION_OF_OUR_LORD_JESUS_CHRIST.htm

http://www.jesus-passion.com/THE_PASSION2.htm#CHAPTER%20XXIII

When Jesus fell down at the foot of the pillar, after the flagellation, I saw Claudia Procles, the wife of Pilate, send some large pieces of linen to the Mother of God. I know not whether she thought that Jesus would be set free, and that his Mother would then require linen to dress his wounds, or whether this compassionate lady was aware of the use which would be made of her present. At the termination of the scourging, Mary came to herself for a time, and saw her Divine Son all torn and mangled, being led away by the archers after the scourging: he wiped his eyes, which were filled with blood, that he might look at his Mother, and she stretched out her hands towards him, and continued to look at the bloody traces of his footsteps. I soon after saw Mary and Magdalen approach the pillar where Jesus had been scourged; the mob were at a distance, and they were partly concealed by the other holy women, and by a few kind-hearted persons who had joined them; they knelt down on the ground near the pillar, and wiped up the sacred blood with the linen which Claudia Procles had sent. John was not at that time with the holy women, who were about twenty in number. The sons of Simeon and of Obed, and Veronica, as also the two nephews of Joseph of Arimathea—Aram and Themni—were in the Temple, and appeared to be overwhelmed with grief. It was not more than nine o’clock A.M. when the scourging terminated.


http://www.jesus-passion.com/THE_PASSION.htm#CHAPTER%20XII

Jesus, in his anguish of spirit, raised his voice, and gave utterance to several cries of pain. The three Apostles awoke, listened, and were desirous of approaching him, but Peter detained James and John, saying: ‘Stay you here; I will join him.’ Then I saw Peter hastily run forward and enter the grotto. ‘Master,’ he exclaimed, ‘what has befallen thee?’ But at the sight of Jesus, thus bathed in his own blood, and sinking to the ground beneath the weight of mortal fear and anguish, he drew back, and paused for a moment, overcome with terror. Jesus made him no answer, and appeared unconscious of his presence. Peter returned to the other two, and told them that the Lord had not answered him except by groans and sighs. They became more and more sorrowful after this, covered their heads, and sat down to weep and pray.

I then returned to my Heavenly Spouse in his most bitter agony. The frightful visions of the future ingratitude of the men whose debt to Divine Justice he was taking upon himself, continued to become more and more vivid and tremendous. Several times I heard him exclaim: ‘0 my Father, can I possibly suffer for so ungrateful a race? 0 my Father, if this chalice may not pass from me, but I must drink it, thy will be done!’

Jesus walked up to the soldiers and said in a firm and clear voice, ‘ Whom seek ye?’ The leaders answered, ‘ Jesus of Nazareth.’ Jesus said to them, ‘1 am he.’ Scarcely had he pronounced these words than they all fell to the ground, as if struck with apoplexy. Judas, who stood by them, was much alarmed, and as he appeared desirous of approaching, Jesus held out his hand and said: ‘Friend, whereto art thou come?’ Judas stammered forth something about business which had brought him. Jesus answered in few words, the sense of which was: 'It were better for thee that thou hadst never been born;’ however, I cannot remember the words exactly. In the meantime, the soldiers had risen, and again approached Jesus, but they waited for the sign of the kiss, with which Judas had promised to salute his Master that they might recognise him. Peter and the other disciples surrounded Judas, and reviled him in unmeasured terms, calling him thief and traitor; he tried to mollify their wrath by all kinds of lies, but his efforts were vain, for the soldiers came up and offered to defend him, which proceeding manifested the truth at once.

They tied his hands as tightly as possible with hard new cords, fastening the right-hand wrist under the left elbow, and the left-hand wrist under the right elbow. They encircled his waist with a species of belt studded with iron points, and bound his hands to it with osier bands, while on his neck they put a collar covered with iron points, and to this collar were appended two leathern straps, which were crossed over his chest like a stole and fastened to the belt. They then fastened four ropes to different parts of the belt, and by means of these ropes dragged our Blessed Lord from side to side in the most cruel manner. The ropes were new; I think they were purchased when the Pharisees first determined to arrest Jesus.

The bridge over which the soldiers led Jesus was long, being thrown over not only the torrent, which was very large in this part, but likewise over the valley, which extends a considerable distance to the right and to the left, and is much lower than the bed of the river. I saw our Lord fall twice before he reached the bridge, and these falls were caused entirely by the barbarous manner in which the soldiers dragged him; but when they were half over the bridge they gave full vent to their brutal inclinations, and struck Jesus with such violence that they threw him off the bridge into the water, and scornfully recommended him to quench his thirst there. If God had not preserved him, he must have been killed by this fall; he fell first on his knee, and then on his face, but saved himself a little by stretching. out his hands, which, although so tightly bound before, were loosened, I know not whether by miracle, or whether the soldiers had cut the cords before they threw him into the water. The marks of his feet, his elbows, and his fingers were miraculously impressed on the rock on which he fell, and these impressions were afterwards shown for the veneration of Christians. These stones were less hard than the unbelieving hearts of the wicked men who surrounded Jesus, and bore witness at this terrible moment to the Divine Power which had touched them.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
I recommend you see The Passion Of The Christ before passing judgement on it! The movie has much more bibical truth!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by nobleweb (Member # 2156) on :
 
Dear Caretaker & volodymyrdolgoruki, Thank you for your kind words. Until I read these posts, I thought I must be the only person in the world who felt this way. It is so nice to know I'm not alone!

To Gramajo320 - I never said a word about what is in Mel Gibson's heart, for you are correct - I do not know what is in his heart. But it is equally true that you do not know either. Yet you defend the movie and say that I/We will some day be proven wrong and have to answer for it. It kind of feels as if you are judging me when you say such things!

I am not a Bible scholar, and I feel so unqualified to "debate" with so many learned people. Yet I know the Bible tells us that we will know a person by their fruits. So which "fruits" do we know Mr. Gibson by? The ton of movies where he uses God's name in vain and "condones" sinful things? Or by the one movie where he shares his personal beliefs about God? And are we to believe that it's okay to do/say these things as long as it's for our jobs?

And, I am not tearing the movie down for I have not seen it. But truthfully, it sounds to me like the stuff nightmares are made of!
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
To those who oppose The Passion Of The Christ

Mel Gibson is most assuredly a christian. The Passion Of The Christ is NOT a roman catholic movie and to even say that is ludicrous! It is a movie about Jesus Christ and His crucifixion and perhaps if you ever see it you would know that it has much bibical truth in it. Tearing down is not christian. Try winning souls to Christ for that is what's the most important!

In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
GrammaJo
To those who oppose The Passion Of The Christ

GJ
Mel Gibson is most assuredly a christian.

Drew
Mel Gibson is most assuredly a Roman Catholic. Receiving his justification through the sacraments of the Church. A Christian receives full and complete justification through Jesus alone by faith alone.


GJ
The Passion Of The Christ is NOT a roman catholic movie and to even say that is ludicrous!

Drew
The movie was taken primarily from the Dolorus Passion of the Christ, which were the written visions of a Roman Catholic nun, Catherine Emmerich. In truth it should be named the Dolorus Passion of the Christ. It would behoove all of those who so adamently support this movie and continually skewer those who stand against it, to read the writings of Emmerich which are not Biblical and overwhelmingly filled with Roman Catholic concepts.


GJ
It is a movie about Jesus Christ and His crucifixion and perhaps if you ever see it you would know that it has much bibical truth in it.

Drew
It is a movie of the nun's VISIONS of the events of the the crucifiction.

A little Living Water mixed with SEWAGE is not palatable.

GJ
Tearing down is not christian.


Drew
Judging and rejecting that which is false is our admonition from the WORD.

GJ
Try winning souls to Christ for that is what's the most important!

Drew
It is most important to seek to reach the lost for our Lord Jesus Christ, and to offer them the Living Water, not that which has been polluted with raw sewage.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
Caretaker,

Yes Mel Gibson most assuredly is a christian! You obviously do not know the difference between charismatic catholics and roman catholics for all you do is lump them all together which you should not do. It's very obvious you've never seen the movie for if you had you would know that your words are so wrong! It's obvious that you will never know the truth and as for the title of the movie The Passion Of The Christ it is titled exactly as it should be and it's all about Jesus Christ and his crucifixion. Jesus Christ and His crucifixion is very bibical!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
GJ
Yes Mel Gibson most assuredly is a christian! You obviously do not know the difference between charismatic catholics and roman catholics for all you do is lump them all together which you should not do.

Drew
Mel Gibson is a pre-Vatican II Roman Catholic.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/tc/2004/002/1.30.html

Though he has earned the support of evangelicals in the promotion of his movie, Gibson adheres to a traditionalist, pre-Vatican II Catholicism that firmly distances his theology from that of Protestants—and even mainstream Catholics.

GJ
It's very obvious you've never seen the movie for if you had you would know that your words are so wrong!

Drew
Its very obvious that you've never seen the movie for what it is, then you would know that I speak the truth and be able to ascertain the overwhelming Roman Catholic influences, and a script which relys heavily on the nun's visions.

GJ
It's obvious that you will never know the truth and as for the title of the movie The Passion Of The Christ it is titled exactly as it should be and it's all about Jesus Christ and his crucifixion.

Drew
It is obvious that you will never accept the truth that the movie is a false depiction based on the visions of Catherine Emmerich, and is a cinematic presentation of the Dolorus Passion of the Christ, filtered through Roman Catholic theology.

GJ
Jesus Christ and His crucifixion is very bibical!

Drew
I agree, but the movie is not.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
The Passion Of The Christ script does NOT rely on a nun's vision whatsoever and furthermore this movie is not filtered through the roman catholic theology at all. You really should see the movie before tearing it down!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by Favor Minded (Member # 3636) on :
 
Just a quick question - After all, we is all gettin' along so good in the Pre Tribbers section, let's not get too outta hand over this 'n, eh?

Yes, Mel does not subscribe to Vatican II

Yes, he is a traditionalist Catholic -

We should stop fightin' over this one me thinks...

I would ask though, specifically, how, this movie, is not biblical?

Smile y'all!!
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
GJ:
The Passion Of The Christ script does NOT rely on a nun's vision whatsoever and furthermore this movie is not filtered through the roman catholic theology at all. You really should see the movie before tearing it down!


Drew

http://www.christianitytoday.com/movies/commentaries/passion-passionofmel.html

The vision thing

Mel Gibson is in many ways a pre-Vatican II Roman Catholic. He prefers the Tridentine Latin Mass and calls Mary co-redemptrix. Early in the filming of The Passion, he gave a long interview to Raymond Arroyo on the conservative Catholic network EWTN. In that interview, Gibson told how actor Jim Caviezel, the film's Jesus, insisted on beginning each day of filming with the celebration of the Mass on the set. He also recounted a series of divine coincidences that led him to read the works of Anne Catherine Emmerich, a late-18th, early-19th-century Westphalian nun who had visions of the events of the Passion. Many of the details needed to fill out the Gospel accounts he drew from her book, Dolorous Passion of Our Lord.

Here is one such detail from Emmerich:

"[A]fter the flagellation, I saw Claudia Procles, the wife of Pilate, send some large pieces of linen to the Mother of God. I know not whether she thought that Jesus would be set free, and that his Mother would then require linen to dress his wounds, or whether this compassionate lady was aware of the use which would be made of her present. … I soon after saw Mary and Magdalen approach the pillar where Jesus had been scourged; … they knelt down on the ground near the pillar, and wiped up the sacred blood with the linen which Claudia Procles had sent."
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
Favorminded,

Amen! I totally agree with you and God bless you always!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by David (Member # 1) on :
 
I have seen The Passion of the Christ and I think it is a very, very good movie.

I think anyone believer or non-believer will have a better since of what actually happened and what Jesus really had to go through for US!

I am sure Satan would not want anyone to see this move!

Plus the Passion recut is less violent for those who can not take the first version. I think the crusifixion was as bad or worse then in the first version.



Click here to go to The Passion Recut website

had to get my two cents in.


 

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Posted by nobleweb (Member # 2156) on :
 

quote:

---

I think anyone believer or non-believer will have a better since of what actually happened and what Jesus really had to go through for US!

---

I couldn't agree more!! Because as embarrassing as it is to admit, I didn't understand that myself before this movie came out. So in that aspect, I would say I benefited from this movie. But I didn't have to see it to get that important understanding.

After reading the "reviews" posted here - both good and bad - the thing that kept catching my attention was something that both sides agreed on. From what I gather, the movie is not 100% scripturally sound. I understand that the discrepancies are considered minor and unimportant. But it appears that everyone agrees that, at the very least, "poetic licence" was taken even if only in small degrees.

It finally dawned on me why that bothered me -- because it's in small degrees that the devil works. He's not so bold or stupid as to whisper in your ear that it's okay to set your neighbor's house on fire because he purposely ran over your dog. Instead, he slyly whispers that it's okay to lie in order to spare someone's feelings. Much of the time, the devil seems to make sense - and in a perverted way, what he whispers appears to be the right and kindest thing to do. The devil is cunning and smart, and he knows he has to be very VERY subtle in order to work his way into a believer's heart. So in a movie as important as the crucifixion of Christ, he wouldn't be trying to get gross misrepresentations into the script. He wouldn't use blatant lies, or greatly change the Scriptures, or do anything else that would automatically turn the Christian population away. Instead, he would cleverly use 98% - 99% of the truth. And in the other 1% - 2%, he could plant his own "seeds". (The path is narrow -- how many degrees can you veer before you have wandered off the path?)

I am not as learned in the Bible as many of you, and it's possible that I have this entirely wrong. But my belief is that any message that was truly from God would be totally without flaw. It seems to me that if He were to use flawed information, regardless of how small or insignificant the flaw seemed, it would be monumentally difficult, if not impossible, to understand the truth of right and wrong.

Having said all that..... Would God take "poetic license" with The Good News in order to reach more people with the truth? Would He ever use the Gospels, for any reason, in a fashion that was not 100% infallible? In other words, is it okay to give small amounts of misinformation if it produces an outcome that is good? (If a "bad deed" produces good results, does the bad deed become a good deed?)

Please know that I am not being sarcastic in any way. I just don't understand this at all. It makes me think of a conversation I had with someone about a prophecy. I don't remember many particulars, but it came out that some of the prophecies this particular person had made did not come true. This prompted the question from me of how did you know when to pay attention to someone if not 100% of their prophecies were true. If they are allowed to be wrong sometimes, how could you ever identify a false prophet? Is it okay to give credence to a false prophet when what he's saying is the truth? Can a prophet be "true" one time and "false" the next - and still be considered a messenger of God? The person didn't have any answers for me, and I don't understand that at all.

Anyway...... that is how I feel about this movie. If the Gospel doesn't have to be presented as 100% accurate, how could we ever possibly discern what was from God and what was from the devil?

Once again, please let me say that I'm not trying to keep a debate of the movie going. I'm not trying to say anything about Mel Gibson, or Catholicism, and I'm making no judgments of any kind whatsoever. Instead, I'd really appreciate answers to my above questions because from what I've read here, the stuff everyone agrees on, I honest-to-goodness don't understand how this movie could be considered "good".
 

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Posted by Favor Minded (Member # 3636) on :
 
OK - I have to add....

There is NOTHING that is NOT scripturally sound...NOTHING....

The poetic license is simply that there is filler...

For example - Brother caretakers excerpt above...

None of the Gospels say ANYTHING about what was going on while the Romans were dragging Jesus off to be adorned with the special crown they made for him.

WHY is it wrong for the movie the depict an upset mother and a caring wife of Pilate who recognized his purity and gave linen to help clean up the mess, while the Romans are busy getting him prepared to go before Pilate again...

HOW DOES THIS CAUSE THE DEVIL TO GET IN? That is pure silliness...

IT doesn't!!!

That is just plain stupid.

Sorry - Please understand that I am in no way calling anyone stupid, but there is NOTHING scripturally unsound about it, at all!!!

The only license is the building of a movie around the events. Case in point the scene above -Oh I suppose they could have spent the entire time allowing us to watch the Crown being placed, watching them hit and beat him over and over again, but you see - Humans are frail - Many would have left just because it was too intense to watch, so the movie maker provides an out -

The scene of Claudia offering linen, depicting the purity that she recognized in Jesus.

WOW, that sure sounds like the Devil to me!

Come on people - WHERE is the scripturally unsoundness?

THERE IS NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The devil IS NOT working through the Passion, except with those people who would tear it down.

Of that you can be sure - There will come a day when God WILL ask you why you tried to prevent something that placed Jesus Christ in the limelight of the secular communities of the world like NOTHING EVER HAS before, except when he was alive in the flesh...







 

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Posted by Study (Member # 3991) on :
 
nobleweb just my view point.

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This prompted the question from me of how did you know when to pay attention to someone if not 100% of their prophecies were true. If they are allowed to be wrong sometimes, how could you ever identify a false prophet?

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Is it okay to give credence to a false prophet when what he's saying is the truth?

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Can a prophet be "true" one time and "false" the next - and still be considered a messenger of God?

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"[A]fter the flagellation, I saw Claudia Procles, the wife of Pilate, send some large pieces of linen to the [u]Mother of God.[/u]

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Furthermore, the only time Jesus showed everyone his *** was when he rode into Jerusalem on it on Palm Sunday. I am refering to the last scene in the movie. That was absurd....sick and just plain out wrong to depict our Lord and Saviour in nudity like that

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Mel said that the only person who could see Satan was Mary, and even then, only out of the corner of her eye.

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He claims to have gotten his insperation for the movie from the book "The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ" by Anne Catherine Emmerich.

The truth is he got a lot more than just insperation from this book... it is an almost exact copy of the book itself.

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Show me IN SCRIPTURE where satan was in the garden of Gethsemane tempting Jesus?

The fulfilment of prophecy occueed ON THE CROSS
NOT in the Garden, but that doesn't really matter does it.


(Matthew 27:19) While he was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent him a message, saying, "Have nothing to do with that righteous Man; for last night I suffered greatly in a dream because of Him."

Why does the movie show her telling Pilate this in PERSON.
This point may be trivial, by couldn't he have used truth? Why did he have to cahange it??


In the garden of Gethsemane Mel added words to Jesus prayers that were NOT in the Bible.
Is The Truth not enough??

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Here's something to ponder.

If the movie had been more Bible, truth centered;
Less man made centered:

More the True Word of God in it;


(Romans 10:17)
So faith comes by hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the preaching [of the message that came from the lips] of Christ (the Messiah Himself).

(Hebrews 4:12) For the Word that God speaks is alive and full of power [making it active, operative, energizing, and effective]; it is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating to the dividing line of the breath of life (soul) and [the immortal] spirit, and of joints and marrow [of the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and sifting and analyzing and judging the very thoughts and purposes of the heart.


Could God haved used it even more powerfully?

Would it had made any difference?

Would more people come to faith?

Would more peoples faith grown?

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for He will never let any one be led in the wrong way.

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All good things work together for the glory of God

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for He will never let any one be led in the wrong way.

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
Volodymyrdolgoruki,

Au Revoir!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by volodymyrdolgoruki (Member # 4400) on :
 
Gramajo320
I'm not trying to pick on you or upset you.

I FIRMLY believe
2 Timothy 3:16-17
(16) All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
(17) so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.


That is one problem I have with the movie, there is very very little scripture in it.

I'm as passionate against the movie as you are for it.


I also firmly believe
(2 Timothy 2:15) Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

God's Word MUST be accurately quoted and handled.

I don't like see God's Word being misquoted, however innocent or unintetioned it may be.


I will now depart in peace.


May God Bless you all beyond measure with His Wisdom.

May He give you all the Grace and strength to apply His Wisdom.

My He open all your eyes to lies and deceptions, gifting you with His discernment.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 3772) on :
 
Volodymyrdolgoruki,

My eyes are quite wide open as to what are lies and deception and to what is the real truth. The Holy Spirit leads me in many ways and in many areas.

Au Revoir.

In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by Study (Member # 3991) on :
 
Sounds like this trend needs a group hug and to move on.
 

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Posted by mohawk (Member # 2898) on :
 
Talk about an eye-opener, I come back after a day or two and look at this thread... wow! Please don't think me a troublemaker. I believe my original topic was my own grousing over the Academy not even, grudgingly, giving Jim Caviezal a nomination for his portrayal of Jesus in this powerful movie.

I'd also like to add, in the spirit of the conversation that has resulted, that a piece of graffiti on a wall that says, "Got Jesus?" or anything to that effect, is no more biblical than "Passion" can claim to be... yet if one lost soul actually is led to seek the Lord out... pick up a Bible... step into a church... ask a Christian acquaintance about Jesus... all because of that graffiti... then you have seen the Lord at work. Praise Him. He is not limited by the self-created rules of engagement we imagine onto Him. If one soul was saved (whether there is a statistic showing it or not) because of "Passion," praise Him.

Jesus went to the cross to save us from a legalism we could never hope to live up to by our own power. In tearing down "Passion" because it doesn't comply with a legalistic viewpoint of how God OUGHT TO work, is like saying "You're not REALLY saved because you didn't receive Christ in the same church where I did."

If anything, it is foretold that the entire world will have heard of Jesus before He returns... "Passion" at least has served a part of Bible prophecy. I will never attempt to confine God's power down to my own limited vision of how He "should" operate or carry out His plan. If God has used "Passion" as a tool--depsite it ruffling the feathers of a few legalists, which apparently it has--then who can second-guess Him?
 

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Posted by mohawk (Member # 2898) on :
 
At the risk of pouring either water or gasoline on this hot thread... here is a recent interview by Gibson himself, that seems to address the original topic here... I present it to round out all the diverse viewpoints that have been presented in this thread--I hope it helps the exchange.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/7/185117.shtml?j=832417&e=wonkavatorup@yahoo.com&l=143149_HTML&u=15609466

May God bless the discussion of His word.
 

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