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Author Topic: The unforgiveable sin ?/HS blasphemy
wincam
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what is it - why unforgiveable[Isa.1:18]since God forgives sin - is it one off and local or widespread and rampant - it seems by their fruits you shall know them - more later - wincam
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Carol Swenson
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When you ask people, "What is the unpardonable sin?" they usually reply, "It is blaspheming the Holy Spirit" or "It is the sin of attributing to the devil the works of the Holy Spirit." Historically speaking, these statements are true; but they do not really answer the question. How do we today blaspheme the Spirit of God? What miracles is the Holy Spirit performing today that might be carelessly or even deliberately attributed to Satan? Must a person see a miracle in order to commit this terrible sin?

Jesus made it clear that God would forgive all sin and all blasphemy, including blasphemy against the very Son of God Himself! (Matt. 12:32) Does this mean that God the Son is less important than the Holy Spirit? Why would a sin against God the Son be forgivable and yet a sin against the Holy Spirit be unforgivable?

The answer lies in the nature of God and in His patient dealings with the nation of Israel. God the Father sent John the Baptist to prepare the nation for the coming of their Messiah. Many of the common people responded to John's call and repented (Matt. 21:32), but the religious leaders permitted John to be arrested and eventually killed. God the Son came as promised and called the nation to trust Him, but those same religious leaders asked for Jesus to be killed. On the cross, our Lord prayed, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34).

The Holy Spirit came at Pentecost and demonstrated God's power in many convicting ways. How did those same religious leaders respond? By arresting the Apostles, ordering them to keep silent, and then killing Stephen themselves! Stephen told them what their sin was: "Ye do always resist the Holy Ghost" (Acts 7:51). They had sinned against the Father and the Son, but had been graciously forgiven. When they sinned against the Holy Spirit, they had reached "the end of the line" and there could be no more forgiveness.

People today cannot commit the "unpardonable sin" in the same way the Jewish religious leaders did when Jesus was ministering on earth. The only sin today that God cannot forgive is rejection of His Son (John 3:16-21, 31). When the Spirit of God convicts the sinner and reveals the Saviour, the sinner may resist the Spirit and reject the witness of the Word of God, but that does not mean he has forfeited all his opportunities to be saved. If he will repent and believe, God can still forgive him. Even if the sinner so hardens his heart that he seems to be insensitive to the pleadings of God, so long as there is life, there is hope. Only God knows if and when any "deadline" has been crossed. You and I must never despair of any sinner (1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9).

Warren Wiersbe
Bible Exposition Commentary - Be Diligent (Mark)

The Holy Spirit is at work in the world, convicting the unsaved of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). If a person resists that conviction and remains unrepentant, then he is choosing hell over heaven. “Without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6), and the object of faith is Jesus (Acts 16:31). There is no forgiveness for someone who dies without faith in Christ.

God has provided for our salvation in His Son (John 3:16). Forgiveness is found exclusively in Jesus (John 14:6). To reject the only Savior is to be left with no means of salvation; to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.

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wincam
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Carol - this is the old old story churned out by those who have not and will not consider the right answer since they are directly involved and cannot and will not repent and so cannot be forgiven - the reverse has not been considered viz blaming the works of devils and human devils on and to the HS - the centuries have come and gone and a clear picture now emerges of the true unclaimed fruits of the HS by those who have in the past and even now claim and have claimed inspiration, guidance, indwelling by and to the HS - the results/fruits attributed to the HS are division, differences, dissent, deception contradictions and chaos - this obviously in unrepented and blasphemy and unforgiveable - wincam
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Carol Swenson
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I have no idea of what you are saying here. Unless it is that people who claim to be inspired, guided, etc. by the Holy Spirit are only fooling themselves and others. Perhaps you think that only the Catholic saints are allowed to actually make that claim?

It seems that you only tease and taunt, and endeavor to cause people to doubt their salvation. To be honest, I must say this is diabolical on your part.

Our task is to lead men and women to Christ; God's task is to use them for His glory; and every person is important to God.

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wincam
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okay Carol don't take my word for it but what does the Bible say at Jn.14;17 - are we the you or the world - do we attribute our warped inspiration and interpretation to the HS - are we being directly addressed and should we take it that this applies to us or not - wincam
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Carol Swenson
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quote:
do we attribute our warped inspiration and interpretation to the HS
While I don't know who you mean by this, I can say that all the different cults and denominations do raise the question fairly. We all know there are many professing "Christians" who do not believe and are not saved. On the other hand, there are many quiet, gentle Christians who are.

Not everyone is going to have a Damascus Road experience. The phrase “Damascus Road experience” is used to describe a conversion which is dramatic and startling. Many people receive Christ in a life-changing, instantaneous experience, although many others describe their conversion as more of a gradual understanding of the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. But both types of experiences have things in common.

First, salvation is of the Lord, by His will and according to His plan and purpose (Acts 22:14).

Second, the response of both Saul and all those who are redeemed by Christ is the same: “What do You want me to do?” Like Saul, we do not bargain, negotiate, question, or come halfway. The response of the redeemed is obedience. When God truly touches our hearts, our only response can be, “Lord, may Your will be done and may You use me to do it.”

John 14:16-17 (NASB)
16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

John 14:17 applies to all Christians. Scripture tells us:

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

And so:

Galatians 3:26-29
26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

Romans 11:17
17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree

But it isn't enough that we simply ask Jesus into our hearts, and then go about life as usual without another thought for Him. Salvation inspires us to a deep love for Him.

And while not all conversions are as startling as Saul’s, each of us is commissioned by Jesus to live in obedience to Him (John 14:15), love one another in His name (1 John 2:23), “know Christ and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in His sufferings, becoming like Him in His death,” (Philippians 3:10), and tell the world of the wonderful riches in Christ.

John 14:20-21 (NASB)
20 "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

John 14:23 (NASB)
23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

John 14:25-26 (NASB)
25 "These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. 26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

There are too many verses about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit for you to discount the truth. I have come to believe that you expect, even demand, the Holy Spirit to act in a certain way instead of simply submitting to Him and allowing Him to fill you.


1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

1 Corinthians 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

2 Corinthians 6:16
Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

Ezekiel 36:27
"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

Isaiah 63:11
Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of them,

2 Timothy 1:14
Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you.

Acts 6:5
The statement found approval with the whole congregation; and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch.

Ephesians 5:18
And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

John 16:13
"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Galatians 5:22,23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control

Romans 8:9
However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Romans 8:15
For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"

Galatians 4:6
Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

1 John 2:27
As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

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wincam
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the big mistake and error made in the past and still being made and the cause of much division and diversion and confusion is applying to ourselves what directly applied only to the Apostles and others - we must be careful to observe who is actually being addressed - wincam
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by wincam:
the big mistake and error made in the past and still being made and the cause of much division and diversion and confusion is applying to ourselves what directly applied only to the Apostles and others - we must be careful to observe who is actually being addressed - wincam

Thats right. The unforgivable sin against the Holy Spirit could only be committed when Christ was walking around on the earth in Israel.

The Unpardonable Sin-
Thru the Bible - Sunday Sermon
Dr. J. Vernon McGee References: John 16
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/thru-the-bible-sunday-sermon/listen/the-unpardonable-sin-265623.html

As for division, Rightly dividing is the answer.

This is worth investing 1hr to fully understand the Dispensation of Grace.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4GQB4UOpMk&list=PL41BCE46CAD456DC8


Rightly Dividing The Word (Part One) The Key!
This study in a basic study on how to apply God's Divine way to understand His Word as laid out in 2 Timothy 2:15. By RIGHTLY DIVIDING God's Word.
BY TWINCITIESGRACE1

It will automatically load to the next parts..

Enjoy....
[Cool]

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That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by wincam:
the big mistake and error made in the past and still being made and the cause of much division and diversion and confusion is applying to ourselves what directly applied only to the Apostles and others - we must be careful to observe who is actually being addressed - wincam

If we apply to ourselves the words of our Lord and His apostles, and if we live by them, then there would be no division. Division is caused by those who pick and choose and deny scripture, seeking to interpret the Word in their own image.

How can we know what parts of the Bible apply to us today?

Much misunderstanding about the Christian life occurs because we either assign commands and exhortations we should be following as "era-specific" commands that only applied to the original audience, or we take commands and exhortations that are specific to a particular audience and make them timeless truths. How do we go about discerning the difference? The first thing to note is that the canon of Scripture was closed by the end of the 1st century A.D. This means that, while all of the Bible is truth we can apply to our lives, most, if not all, of the Bible was not originally written to us. The authors had in mind the hearers of that day. That should cause us to be very careful when interpreting the Bible for today’s Christians. It seems that much of contemporary evangelical preaching is so concerned with the practical application of Scripture that we treat the Bible as a lake from which to fish application for today’s Christians. All of this is done at the expense of proper exegesis and interpretation.

The top three rules of hermeneutics (the art and science of biblical interpretation) are 1) context; 2) context; 3) context. Before we can tell 21st-century Christians how the Bible applies to them, we must first come to the best possible understanding of what the Bible meant to its original audience. If we come up with an application that would have been foreign to the original audience, there is a very strong possibility that we did not interpret the passage correctly. Once we are confident that we understand what the text meant to its original hearers, we then need to determine the width of the chasm between us and them. In other words, what are the differences in language, time, culture, geography, setting and situation? All of these must be taken into account before application can be made. Once the width of the chasm has been measured, we can then attempt to build the bridge over the chasm by finding the commonalities between the original audience and ourselves. Finally, we can then find application for ourselves in our time and situation.

Another important thing to note is that each passage has only one correct interpretation. It can have a range of application, but only one interpretation. What this means is that some applications of biblical passages are better than others. If one application is closer to the correct interpretation than another, then it is a better application of that text. For example, many sermons have been preached on 1 Samuel 17 (the David and Goliath story) that center on "defeating the giants in your life." They lightly skim over the details of the narrative and go straight to application, and that application usually involves allegorizing Goliath into tough, difficult and intimidating situations in one’s life that must be overcome by faith. There is also an attempt to allegorize the five smooth stones David picked up to defeat his giant. These sermons usually conclude by exhorting us to be faithful like David.

While these interpretations make engaging sermons, it is doubtful the original audience would have gotten that message from this story. Before we can apply the truth in 1 Samuel 17, we must know how the original audience understood it, and that means determining the overall purpose of 1 Samuel as a book. Without going into a detailed exegesis of 1 Samuel 17, let’s just say it’s not about defeating the giants in your life with faith. That may be a distant application, but as an interpretation of the passage, it’s alien to the text. God is the hero of the story, and David was His chosen vehicle to bring salvation to His people. The story contrasts the people’s king (Saul) with God’s king (David), and it also foreshadows what Christ (the Son of David) would do for us in providing our salvation.

Another common example of interpreting with disregard of the context is John 14:13-14. Reading this verse out of context would seem to indicate that if we ask God anything (unqualified), we will receive it as long as we use the formula “in Jesus’ name.” Applying the rules of proper hermeneutics to this passage, we see Jesus speaking to His disciples in the upper room on the night of His eventual betrayal. The immediate audience is the disciples. This is essentially a promise to His disciples that God will provide the necessary resources for them to complete their task. It is a passage of comfort because Jesus would soon be leaving them. Is there an application for 21st-century Christians? Of course! If we pray in Jesus’ name, we pray according to God’s will and God will give us what we need to accomplish His will in and through us. Furthermore, the response we get will always glorify God. Far from a "carte blanche" way of getting what we want, this passage teaches us that we must always submit to God’s will in prayer, and that God will always provide what we need to accomplish His will.

Proper biblical interpretation is built on the following principles:
1. Context. To understand fully, start small and extend outward: verse, passage, chapter, book, author and testament/covenant.
2. Try to come to grips with how the original audience would have understood the text.
3. Consider the width of the chasm between us and the original audience.
4. It’s a safe bet that any moral command from the Old Testament that is repeated in the New Testament is an example of a "timeless truth."
5. Remember that each passage has one and only one correct interpretation, but can have many applications (some better than others).
6. Always be humble and don’t forget the role of the Holy Spirit in interpretation. He has promised to lead us into all truth (John 16:13).

Biblical interpretation is as much an art as it is science. There are rules and principles, but some of the more difficult or controversial passages require more effort than others. We should always be open to changing an interpretation if the Spirit convicts and the evidence supports.

https://gotquestions.org/Bible-apply-today.html

1 Corinthians 12:3-13 (NASB)
3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

wincam, can you say "Jesus is Lord" ?

1 Corinthians 13:8-13 (NASB)
8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.

wincam, do you still have faith, hope, and love?

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wincam
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here we go again - now we want to pontificate about love as if we really know or understand what love is - listen again to the likes of Paul Washer and Ray Comfort in 'Hell's best kept secret' - most think they do know what love really is but do not so here I rest my case - wincam
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Carol Swenson
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I take it that you do not know.

But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.


We know what scripture teaches us about love.

1 Corinthians 13:4-7 (NASB)
4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

You like Paul Washer, so here is a quote from him:

"A lot of people think that Christianity is you doing all the righteous things you hate and avoiding all the wicked things you love in order to go to Heaven. No, that's a lost man with religion. A Christian is a person whose heart has been changed; they have new affections."

New affections.

We know love is not about being bitter and alienating other people, but neither is it about watering down the Truth to appeal to more people. That is Satan leading people down a rosy garden path into the jaws of Hell.

The Hell's Best Secret teaching is essentially a denouncement on what Ray Comfort calls "the modern Gospel", and a teaching on what he considers the proper use of Mosaic Law to prepare the heart for the Gospel.

According to Comfort, based on Church records that he's had access to, something like 80%-90% of those who have "been saved" later fall away. He blames this on the methods used to get people to come to Christ.

The "Modern Gospel" as he calls it, is one of life enhancement. Sinners are promised that God can heal their broken marriage, fix their drug problems, alcohol problems, and so forth. The "Modern Gospel" is, according to Comfort, a misguided attempt to make Christianity appealing by showing how much better the Christian life is than that of the unsaved.

The rest of the teaching expands on the proper use of the Law, particularly the the pedagogical use (although he doesn't use that term in the teaching), which is to show sinners what sin is, to show them that they are, indeed, sinners, and show them their need of a Savior, and allow repentance. Without the Law, He argues (as does the Apostle Paul), sinners don't even know what sin is. How can they repent, if they don't know what sin is?

The teaching contains a section in which he illustrates using the Ten Commandments on an unrepentant sinner to show them their sinful nature in it's true light.

I watched a short video on YouTube where Ray Comfort interviewed a few people about how to go to Heaven. They were totally clueless!

Can anyone explain to me why wincam did not simply talk about sin, confession, repentance, and trusting Jesus to be our Lord and Savior?

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by wincam:
here we go again - now we want to pontificate about love as if we really know or understand what love is - listen again to the likes of Paul Washer and Ray Comfort in 'Hell's best kept secret' - most think they do know what love really is but do not so here I rest my case - wincam

Then your case is weak.

How deep was Davids hearts well?

2 Samuel 23
14 And David was then in an hold, and the garrison of the Philistines was then in Bethlehem.
15 And David longed, and said, Oh that one would give me drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem, which is by the gate!
16 And the three mighty men brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that was by the gate, and took it, and brought it to David: nevertheless he would not drink thereof, but poured it out unto the LORD.
17 And he said, Be it far from me, O LORD, that I should do this: is not this the blood of the men that went in jeopardy of their lives? therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mighty men.

--------------------
That is all.....

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wincam
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Carol - I shake the dust and move on - its time and love wasted - your very last sentence says it all - I finished on the unforgiveable sin and confession and repentance and yet stand accused of not doing so - wincam
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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by wincam:
what is it - why unforgiveable[Isa.1:18]since God forgives sin - is it one off and local or widespread and rampant - it seems by their fruits you shall know them - more later - wincam

I watched a short video on YouTube where Ray Comfort interviewed a few random people on the street about how to go to Heaven. They were totally clueless!

They need to understand what sin is, and confession, and repentance, and their need for the Savior. Even Christians who sin need to confess to the Lord and repent. A sin is unforgiven (not unforgivable) if we don't repent and ask forgiveness. Catholics believe that there are unforgivable mortal sins, but I believe that no sin is too great for God to forgive. No sin is greater than the crucifixion of God, yet He forgave them.

Okay wincam, I think we understand what you mean now.

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Ablorba
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My stomach churns at how close I got to saying a devil can duplicate the Holy Spirit's work of casting demons out. I was deluded and eventually came to realize no one, spirit or human, can duplicate or exceed the works of the Holy Spirit. This especially applies to casting out demons. I think the main difference between me and the pharisees is that I had no intent to put down GOD, I was just ignorant.

--Sacramento Pine

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wincam
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it is sickening ad nauseam at the number who claim visitation/indwelling and inspiration by the HS but denied to Catholics and especially the Pope - the same quickly deny the resultant fruits thereby and thereof - wincam
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kornelius
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To reject the promptings of God's Spirit leaves a person nowhere else to go in relationship with God.
This is unpardonable because the entry that God uses has been dismissed and counted unworthy.

To the foolish virgins he says 'I don't know you'
Whatever experience they had it was not one prompted by God's spirit.

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by kornelius:
To reject the promptings of God's Spirit leaves a person nowhere else to go in relationship with God.
This is unpardonable because the entry that God uses has been dismissed and counted unworthy.

To the foolish virgins he says 'I don't know you'
Whatever experience they had it was not one prompted by God's spirit.

Dr J Vernon McGee Q&A - What is the unpardonable sin?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eshIQJaNkhU

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That is all.....

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