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Topic: Christian Nudism
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
Nope not Biblical at all.
For the Bible says it was the demon possessed that ran around naked and ware no clothes.
Luke:8
26 And they arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is over against Galilee.
27 And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes,.....
But once he was in his RIGHT MIND did have clothes on!
Mark 5:
14 And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.
15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind:...
![[cool_shades]](graemlins/cool_shades.gif)
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hello Rudimentary,
You asked:
Is there any Scripture in the Bible that outright forbids nudity around other people? (Obviously nudity itself couldn't be forbidden, or taking a shower would be a real pain.)
My response:
Galatians 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are adultery, fornication, uncleanness, LEWDNESS,
LEWDNESS(synonym with lasciviousness) is defined as:
Given to or expressing lust, exiting sexual desires, obscene, indecent.
A person claiming to be a Christian nudist would be like a person claiming to be a "lewd Christian" or a "seductive Christian". It is an oxymoron. This behavior would do nothing more than bring shame on the Name of Jesus and I would pray that God would grant repentance to the one who thinks that this is acceptable to Him.
Please note:
The bible does not have to say.....thou shalt not be a nudist for us(Christians) to ascertain that this is a behavior that would be against Gods will. The bible does not say thou shalt not commit abortion, but we all know that it falls under murder, the shedding of innocent blood, which is clearly against Gods will.
With love in Jesus, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Carol Swenson
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posted
They pretend that the Bible says it's okay because deep down they feel guilty about it and they need to find ways to justify their behavior.
Double shameful. Sinning, and twisting scripture to justify their sin.
God created CONSCIENCE for a reason.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
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posted
Amen Bill and Carol !!!!!
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Carol Swenson
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posted
They are really twisting the truth
 to support their desire to SIN.
They don't go nude because God says to. They take off their clothes because they WANT to!
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
Wow this sight should be turned in for child pornography.
View at your own discretion.
http://www.naturist-christians.org/learn_naturistchristians.php
From their web sight, their interpretations...
Supporting scriptures
A question that is often asked, is does God approve of nudity? We believe He does, in fact that's the founding principal behind this website. Through the lists of scripture below, we aim to show that nudity was an everyday part of life in Biblical times, in fact one of the disciples fished without clothing in front of Jesus.
Scriptures Involving Nakedness In The Bible
(Genesis 2:25, 3:11) God never told Adam and Eve they were naked.
(Genesis 3:7, 3:11) Man clothed himself after he sinned, because of fear and as a self-righteous act to redeem himself.
(Genesis 1:31) God declared His handiwork, including the nude human figure, is "very good".
(Micah 1:8 ) Prophets were known for prophesying in the nude.
(1 Samuel 19:23-24) Saul, Samuel and all those who went before him, prophesied naked "all day long" after the Holy Spirit of God came on them.
(Isaiah 20:2-4) Isaiah was commanded by God to go naked before everyone for 3 years as a sign. God who hates sin does not command people to something sinful or wrong.
(2 Samuel 6:14) David danced naked, i.e. wearing a vest (or "linen ephod") before all Israel as an "act of worship" to God. Michal claimed he was acting as a "vulgar man would," but was cursed for her rebukes.
(Mark 14:51) A follower of Jesus fled naked from the Garden of Gethsemane during the arrest. He had come out to see it, dressed only in a light linen night covering.
(John 19:23) Jesus was hung on the cross completely naked, the way Romans crucified all their victims.
(John 21:7) Peter, one of the twelve disciples of Jesus, fished naked, and was doing so when Jesus came to him after he was resurrected. It was customary for people to work without the encumbrance of clothing in those days.
(Galatians 5:16; Titus 1:15) A transformed, purified heart is stronger than clothing, to keep you free from lust and sin.
(Matthew 25:41-43) There is no sin in being homeless, hungry, thirsty or even naked here. The sin is in seeing a need and choosing not to fill it. Those who were naked were so because of poverty. It is similar to our homeless people today.
Scriptures That Support Naturism
(Genesis 2:25)
(Exodus 22:26-27) God's focus here is on the man's comfort when he sleeps in the cool of the evening rather than on the fact that he might be naked during the daylight hours.
(1 Samuel 19:23-24) The sense of the story is that public nudity was common and expected of the Hebrew prophets, and even served as a standard professional practice.
(Isaiah 20:2-4) Isaiah, the prophet, was commanded by God to go naked for three years as a witness against Egypt, of the shame they would suffer for not obeying God, and God would not command someone to sin. The shame they would suffer was not due to being naked, but rather not being able to care for their own bodies.
(Matthew 6:25-34)
(Matthew 21:8)
(Luke 12:22-24)
(Luke 12:27-28)
(Romans 14:14)
(Colossians 2:23)
(2 Corinthians 5:17)
(1 Timothy 4:4) In 1 Timothy, he gives instructions as to HOW we should dress, not THAT we should dress. It's a fine line, but it's quite distinct. To give another example, he gives many directions as to HOW we are to treat slaves; but he doesn't anywhere say THAT we should have slaves. See the difference?
(Titus 1:15)
(Revelation 3:17) In these last two verses, obviously clothing doesn't even cover your spiritual nakedness.
(Revelation 3:4,5,18; 4:4; 6:11; 7:9,13,14) Clean, white clothing in the book of Revelation is consistently a symbol of religious and moral purity, especially in the face of persecution (3:18; 4:4; 6:11; 7:9, 13), while soiled or disheveled clothing, or no clothing at all, is a symbol of religious and moral impurity and shame (3:17-18; 16:15).
What Then Are We Instructed To Clothe Ourselves In?
(Romans 13:14)
(2 Corinthians 5:2-4)
(Galatians 3:26-27)
(Colossians 3:12)
(1 Timothy 2:9-10) Dressing modestly, in this case, means "don't dress up" in order to show off.
(1 Peter 3:3)
(Revelation 19:8)
Clothes During Biblical Times
In Greek (New Testament era) the common garment is called a himation. The himation was typically the only and single garment owned by the common majority in those times (recall the Law of Moses commandment against keeping a debtor's garment, Exodus 22:26-27). More wealthy persons also could own a chiton, made of linen. In the Old Testament, wealthy persons and royalty also possessed multiple garments. The garment industry slowly developed in the ancient Near East over the period between 4,000 BC to the time of Christ, as the population increased, and the economy made it feasible. Clothing was worn for warmth, to show that a man had married a woman (Ezekiel 16:7-8 ), and to show prestige (as in Joseph's coat of many colors), but not to hide "private parts." That came later with the teaching of the Gnostics and later, Augustine.
Historically, underwear as we understand it first came into general use only about 200 years ago (see The Importance of Wearing Clothes by Lawrence Langner, 1991 edition, chapter 16). Thus, lacking underwear, when people removed their himation (and chiton if they had one) they would inevitably have been totally naked.
Again view at your own discretion.
http://www.naturist-christians.org/learn_suppscri.php
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Carol Swenson
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"The wages of sin is death," (Rom. 6:23) and "Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin." (Heb. 9:22)
God made the first animal sacrifice to cover the sins of Adam and Eve.
"The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them." (Genesis 3:21)
This is very clear. God clothed them after they sinned. He clothed them with garments.
"If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8)
We are all sinners. We all must be clothed with garments.
Or, you could go to jail for indecent exposure and stop writing your spam 'n junk on our forum.
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rudimentary:
Except for the fact that the nakedness that was the problem in the Garden wasn't a physical one. Before the fall, Adam and Eve had always been on God's good side. When they fell, they became aware of God's other side- they were laid bare to the possibility of facing God's punishment; they were naked (unprotected, and unable to protect themselves) from what God could do to them.
You assume the putting on of fig leaves made perfect sense. But the problem is, Adam and Eve tried to hide from God among the trees of the Garden. Note: They tried to hide from God. How did it go the last time any of us tried to hide from God? That said, there is no guarantee why Adam and Eve put fig leafs on. It's also worthy of note that when Adam said he was "afraid because he was naked, so he hid," that Adam wasn't physically naked during the time his statement was referring to. He had the fig leaves on then.
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Thus, God regarded clothing as appropriate and necessary in a fallen world.
The Bible doesn't say this. This is an assumption and an interpretation.
Note: An animal skin could be symbolic as well. An animal skin requires the shedding of blood- a worthwhile symbol given the circumstances. This symbolism would also make sense when God was saying that people should not be naked at the altar/in the temple places, because their sinful beings would be exposed before God, as Christ hadn't died yet.
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And since I'm at it, it's also worthwhile to note that 1 Peter 3:3 mentions: “Your beauty should not come from the outside
world- [things] like braided hair, wearing gold, or what clothes you wear" and then 1 Peter 3:4 goes on to say "4 Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight." This talks about the same issue that 1 Timothy 2:9 does. The issue isn't on mandating dress; it's an issue of where the women were trying to get their personal self-worth from. In fact, if you take 1 Timothy 2:9 completely literally, all the women would be nude, because Paul says "not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds".
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It's not the hand that causes one to sin. It's not the eye that causes one to sin. It's not the cloth that causes one to sin. It's the heart.
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Passages used came from Greek and from NIV 1984.
Nice try lol!
The other side of God? LOL is that like the dark side of the moon?
Are you a pot head?
Fig leaves don't bleed warm blood.
Just sap.
Gods covering was indeed righteous.
Inside to out.
Sticky leaves just can't cover,
Naughtiness or remove the guilt
of a conscience violated..
A CLEAR CONSCIENCE
by Cornelius R. Stam
With the knowledge of good and evil man came into the possession of conscience. A sense of blameworthiness smote him when he committed, or even contemplated committing, evil. This has been so ever since. The Bible tells us that even the most ungodly and benighted heathen "show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or else excusing one another" (Rom. 2:15).
It is true that man's conscience can be violated so often that it becomes calloused or, as St. Paul puts it: "seared with a hot iron" (I Tim. 4:2), but events or incidents can take place which suddenly awaken the conscience and make it sensitive again. Many a person has indulged in "the pleasures of sin" more and more freely until, suddenly, his sin has found him out and his conscience has caught up with him to condemn him day and night and make life itself unbearable.
The Bible teaches that all men outside of Christ are, to some degree, troubled by guilty consciences and certainly most are "through fear of death... all their lifetime subject to bondage" (Heb. 2:15). But it also teaches that "Christ died for our sins" so that, our penalty having been paid, we might be delivered from a guilty conscience.
The works and ceremonies of the Mosaic Law could never accomplish this, but sincere and intelligent believers in Christ, having been "once purged," have "no more conscience of sins" (Heb. 9:14; 10:1,2). They are, to be sure, conscious of their sins, but they are no longer tortured by a forever-condemning conscience, for they know that the penalty for all their sins, from the cradle to the coffin, was fully met by Christ at Calvary.
This is not to imply that even a sincere believer may not be troubled about offending the One who paid for his sins, but he knows that the judgment for these sins is past. Thus he earnestly seeks, like Paul, "to have always a conscience void of offence toward God and toward man" (Acts 24:16).
Also, so your advocating the violation of the age of innocence among children by example of adults?
You can't have it both ways.
Then again the twisters can, lol.
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That is all.....
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
Amen Carol and Bill!!!!
You do not bring a Godly perspective or a Biblical worldview to the table, Rudimentary.
quote:
Originally posted by Rudimentary:
What do you guys think about people who claim to be Christian nudists? Do you think this is possible? Is it Biblical?
You asked what we think and we have relayed what the Word of God declares, modesty and covering from the very beginning.
No amount of scriptural wrestling or eisegesis will cause a Believer to be moved or to accept your perspective.
I am sure you can continue to justify the iniquity of nudism, and preach to those with itching ears desirous of pursuing iniquity.
You will never be able to justify iniquity in the practice of nudity, to any of the Brethren.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Carol Swenson
Admin
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posted
1 Peter 3:3-4 (NASB)
Your adornment must not be merely external—braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses; but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.
3:3 ὧν ἔστω οὐχ ὁ ἔξωθεν ἐμπλοκῆς τριχῶν καὶ περιθέσεως χρυσίων ἢ ἐνδύσεως ἱματίων κόσμος
ἔξωθεν exōthen = merely external
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Rudimentary
New Member
Member # 9403
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posted
Except for the fact that the nakedness that was the problem in the Garden wasn't a physical one. Before the fall, Adam and Eve had always been on God's good side. When they fell, they became aware of God's other side- they were laid bare to the possibility of facing God's punishment; they were naked (unprotected, and unable to protect themselves) from what God could do to them.
You assume the putting on of fig leaves made perfect sense. But the problem is, Adam and Eve tried to hide from God among the trees of the Garden. Note: They tried to hide from God. How did it go the last time any of us tried to hide from God? That said, there is no guarantee why Adam and Eve put fig leafs on. It's also worthy of note that when Adam said he was "afraid because he was naked, so he hid," that Adam wasn't physically naked during the time his statement was referring to. He had the fig leaves on then.
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Thus, God regarded clothing as appropriate and necessary in a fallen world.
The Bible doesn't say this. This is an assumption and an interpretation.
Note: An animal skin could be symbolic as well. An animal skin requires the shedding of blood- a worthwhile symbol given the circumstances. This symbolism would also make sense when God was saying that people should not be naked at the altar/in the temple places, because their sinful beings would be exposed before God, as Christ hadn't died yet.
--
And since I'm at it, it's also worthwhile to note that 1 Peter 3:3 mentions: “Your beauty should not come from the outside
world- [things] like braided hair, wearing gold, or what clothes you wear" and then 1 Peter 3:4 goes on to say "4 Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight." This talks about the same issue that 1 Timothy 2:9 does. The issue isn't on mandating dress; it's an issue of where the women were trying to get their personal self-worth from. In fact, if you take 1 Timothy 2:9 completely literally, all the women would be nude, because Paul says "not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds".
---
It's not the hand that causes one to sin. It's not the eye that causes one to sin. It's not the cloth that causes one to sin. It's the heart.
---
Passages used came from Greek and from NIV 1984.
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rudimentary:
Those won't work WildB; they are clearly talking about sex. I might say of a man "he is bringing home the bacon," but it doesn't mean that he is literally bringing home bacon. It simply means he is the family income. The passages are using the terminology of getting a woman's clothes off to denote having sex with her (the vast majority of the passages can clearly be seen only relating to getting a woman naked). Also, there are a ton of scenarios left out of those.
Oh wow dude. I guess we will go back to the beginning for the baseball fans.
After the fall, you know where evil was made part of creation.
God covered their nakedness.
Genesis 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
And why did God do this? Lets study on....
Genesis 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
But Then something happened....
Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
Genesis 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
Genesis 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
So one must conclude that IF one does not know
They are naked,
Then...
One's conscience must be seared and their faith ship wrecked.
1 Timothy 4
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
But let We the Real People, Gods Elect, renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, shall we?
2 Corinthians 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
1 Timothy 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1 Timothy 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
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Carol Swenson
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Can a Christian be a nudist? What does the Bible say about nudity?
Many pagan cultures throughout history considered public nudity normative, especially Spartan, Greek, and Roman societies. In more recent years, pubic nudity has become more and more acceptable, with many groups promoting a “back-to-nature” philosophy and the supposed health benefits of taking off one’s clothes. Nudists, or naturists, form clubs, frequent clothing-free beaches, and engage in activities ranging from hiking to horseback riding au naturel.
Although the world’s standards may permit or even encourage nudity, the Bible has a different perspective. It is true that the first humans were created unclothed by God (Genesis 2:25). Adam and Eve were innocent in their nakedness, but after the fall everything changed. When they sinned, “the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked” (Genesis 3:7). Never before had they realized they were unclothed—the concepts of “clothed” and “unclothed” were meaningless to them. Sin affected their hearts and minds, creating vulnerability, guilt, and shame, and these things produced fear (verse 10). In their attempt to cover their spiritual shame, Adam and Eve intuitively covered their bodies. We should note that, when God took away their fig leaves—a sadly inadequate covering—He replaced them with something more permanent—animal skins (verse 21). Thus, God regarded clothing as appropriate and necessary in a fallen world.
Nudity now has implications of sinfulness attached to it. With few exceptions, the Bible presents nakedness as shameful and degrading (Genesis 9:21; Exodus 20:26; 32:25; 2 Chronicles 28:19; Isaiah 47:3; Ezekiel 16:35-36; Luke 8:27; Revelation 3:17; 16:15; 17:16). The only passages in which nudity is free of shame are those that describe Eden’s idyllic setting or that deal with marital relations (Proverbs 5:18-19; Song of Solomon 4).
We still live in a fallen world, surrounded by lust, immorality, and perversion. The innocence of Eden is gone. Naturist philosophy ignores the results of the fall. Even in “asexual” contexts, public displays of nudity dishonor God by pretending an innocence which no longer exists. A Christian should definitely not be a nudist or participate in nudist activities.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-nudist.html
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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quote:
Originally posted by Rudimentary:
Those won't work WildB; they are clearly talking about sex. I might say of a man "he is bringing home the bacon," but it doesn't mean that he is literally bringing home bacon. It simply means he is the family income. The passages are using the terminology of getting a woman's clothes off to denote having sex with her (the vast majority of the passages can clearly be seen only relating to getting a woman naked). Also, there are a ton of scenarios left out of those.
You have been shown that the Word of God clearly speaks against the public display of nudity.
You reject the clear scriptural context against the immorality of nudism, as you burn in your lust for iniquity.
2 Timothy 4:
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Rudimentary
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Those won't work WildB; they are clearly talking about sex. I might say of a man "he is bringing home the bacon," but it doesn't mean that he is literally bringing home bacon. It simply means he is the family income. The passages are using the terminology of getting a woman's clothes off to denote having sex with her (the vast majority of the passages can clearly be seen only relating to getting a woman naked). Also, there are a ton of scenarios left out of those.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Rudimentary:
Is there any Scripture in the Bible that outright forbids nudity around other people? (Obviously nudity itself couldn't be forbidden, or taking a shower would be a real pain.)
Leviticus 18:6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.
Leviticus 18:7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
Leviticus 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
Leviticus 18:9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.
Leviticus 18:10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
Leviticus 18:11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
Leviticus 18:12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.
Leviticus 18:13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.
Leviticus 18:14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
Leviticus 18:15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
Leviticus 18:16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.
Leviticus 18:17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
Leviticus 18:18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.
Leviticus 18:19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.
Leviticus 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Leviticus 20:17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.
Leviticus 20:18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.
Leviticus 20:19 And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.
Leviticus 20:20 And if a man shall lie with his uncle's wife, he hath uncovered his uncle's nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless.
Leviticus 20:21 And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless.
Just a starter.
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Rudimentary
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Is there any Scripture in the Bible that outright forbids nudity around other people? (Obviously nudity itself couldn't be forbidden, or taking a shower would be a real pain.)
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WildB
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Sin ship wrecked innocence.
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Carol Swenson
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There are a lot of Christians who consider nudity to be natural, the way God created us. Like with most cults, they misinterpret Bible verses, or quote only the verses they think support their point of view.
I have to agree with a couple of points they make though. Clothing our society has not stopped sexual crimes, immorality, or perversion. And provocative clothing is really bad.
Another thing. Rich people wear rich clothes and poor people wear poor clothes, and too often people are judged by their appearance instead of their character and commitment to Christ.
I came across a good article at Tektonics Education and Apologetics Ministry:
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The "Liberated Christians" website offers an article titled, "Nudity is Natural and Wholesome," though we do assume that the webmasters do not think it so natural and wholesome that they walk around in the altogether themselves. We will use it as a template to answer the broader question of whether, Biblically speaking, the titular assertion is correct.
The article begins by telling us that the "sense of shame" we get from nudity "is not inborn: it is learned. Babies have no shame and neither did many early Christians in Biblical times." We'll address that latter in a moment, but for the former it is worth pointing out that babies have no shame or remorse when it comes to soiling their drawers, either; whether Liberated Christians will follow that example as well remains to be seen.
After this we are vaguely assured, at any rate, that "[n]udism promotes a healthy respect and trust with each other." I imagine the inmates at my former venue of work would find that news welcome, and insist that they were perusing pornography out of "healthy respect" for the subjects therein and for a "greater experiential appreciation for the beauty and dignity of the body". Somehow I doubt if the prison disciplinary committee would buy that one.
We then get to the section on what Liberated Christians thinks is the Biblical view of the subject. The matter of Adam and Eve covering themselves is waved off as a matter of God "just going along" with the idea of the attempts to hide from sin. From there we are treated to a few Biblical cites, but many more are left out, along with some pertinent social data, so let's expose (sorry!) that to begin.
Our main source here is Pilch and Malina's Handbook of Biblical Social Values [136f]. Liberated Christians seems to have an idea elsewhere that the "sex is dirty" approach was borrowed from the Greeks, but they'd be dead wrong. Nudity in the Biblical era, as Pilch and Malina note, was associated with sin and shame, and the Genesis connection is the start of this.
Why? Some would say that it is because the First Couple were originally "covered" by a glory that was lost at the Fall, and this may be supported by that Paul speaks in 2 Cor. 5 of not being found "naked" once we receive our heavenly tent. But whatever the reason, nudity thereafter was considered shameful, and the Pilch and Malina reckon with two factors in this respect: honor and shame, and purity and pollution.
Let's start with two verses Liberated Christians seems not to notice:
Exodus 20:26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.
Exodus 28:42 And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach:
If public nudity was "wholesome and natural" then one is constrained to ask why God is telling priests to make sure that they get covered and stay covered. "Party Naked" is not part of the Deuteronomic code. But to the connection, now, with shame. Pilch and Malina write:
Cultural attitudes toward women in ancient Judaism directed that they be defensive of their chastity....Such concern for female virtue was also realized in the expectation that women's bodies be clothed as fully as possible, with the result that loss of clothing was synonymous with loss of virtue. Public nudity inevitably meant "shame" for them, for their chastity was compromised; their physical body was no longer exclusively the property of their husbands.
Liberated Christians actually shows some awareness of this last point in other essays, but makes no connection here, and abuses it as well, but that will be returned to later. Let's remark at once, lest someone think the Bible a Ferengi charter, that men too were subject to this, as Pilch and Malina note:
Even in regard to men we find a comparable pattern. Just as the woman's sexual organs are occasionally called her "shame" (Jub. 3:21), so also the ***** is Adam's "shame," in phrases such as "he covered his shame....to cover his shame." (Jub. 3:27, 30).
The LC folks also seem to miss 1 Cor. 12:23, in which Paul wrote of the "shameful" parts of the body. Needless to say they are also unaware of a few other social points, such as:
Stripping prisoners of war naked was a way of shaming them (the stele of Sargon, the Megiddo ivory, Is. 20:4; 2 Sam. 10:4).
The LC folks note that Christ was naked on the cross (possibly -- the Romans may have allowed a brief loincloth so as not to offend Jewish sensibilities) but are practically blasphemous in citing this as a positive in a case for public nudity! Rather, the stripping of the prisoner was considered a shameful thing, causing great loss of public honor.
Lest it be objected that these were cases of persons being stripped against their will, and therein is what lies the shame, consider both the case of the priests above in Exodus, and the story told by Josephus of a Roman soldier who exposed his rear end to the Temple crowd and so shamed the Jews that he provoked a riot. At Qumran, similarly, a "censure was placed" on any man who inadvertently allowed his sexual organs to protrude from beneath a garment.
A rabbinic comment after the time of Jesus states, "One must not stand nude in the presence of the Divine Name". Jews entering a public toilet were told not to stand facing east or west, for it was the "axis of the Holy of Holies". In the time of Antiochus, pious Jews fought against the attempt to Hellenize the people by introducing the gymnasium where young men exercised nude.
Clothing is a matter of establishing purity boundaries which are in turn a microcosm of the social system, just like other laws. "...clothing begets clarity, and clarity denotes purity. But when people are naked, all such defining marks vanish, and one's identity, role and status become ambiguous...Nudity erases social clues and so is unclean." What Liberated Christians thinks is Puritanism is actually purity.
With that said, what of Liberated Christians' attempt to justify nudity from the Bible, other than what we have mentioned? It's as bad as you may expect:
Jesus himself was undressed at some point, according to John 13:4-5: Jesus rose from the table and laid aside his garments briefly. How "briefly" constitutes any help for nudity as "wholesome" and "natural" is one of those mysteries we'll have to wonder about; if it is so, we have to ask why the condition wasn't made permanent.
Indeed by this logic, Christianity should have been a nudist movement from Day 1, since part of the theology was that the shame of sin was removed, and the sinless Jesus should have got naked and stayed naked. But clearly he didn't, so even if this IS an "altogether" nudism (the word "garments" refers to an outer cloak, not to ALL clothes! -- same in Mark 10:50) it only serves to show that it is NOT "normal".
Christ was not only naked on the cross but he also left "the linen cloths lying there" (Jn 20:5) in the tomb when he rose. Did He tell Thomas to wait a moment while he took off His robe and then to "put out your hand and place it in my side"? We have addressed the matter of being in the cross above; as for the other, the "linen cloths" were BURIAL linens, not clothes! They would not be worn anyway; they were not clothes, and would also be ritually unclean!
There was no mistaking the idea when "the word of the Lord" came through Ezekiel in reference to Israel: " I made you grow like a plant of the field, naked and bare. You grew up and became tall and arrived at full maidenhood; your breasts were formed and your pubic hair had grown" (Ezek 16:7). And as noted, passages like this only emphasize the shamefulness of nudity. This is part of an oracle of judgment on Israel!
If it is really wrong to be seen nude, why would Jesus be around the naked fisherman who "stripped for work" (Jn 21:7) At best this might argue for nudity while at work, fishing, on a boat in the middle of the sea! If it is really "right" to be seen nude, why did Peter slap a coat on before he went to see Jesus?
LC now goes outside the Bible: Did those who were baptized by John have to be dressed? It was the early Church's custom to baptize men, women, and children together nude. The reason why is even quoted: Saint Cyril of Jerusalem (c.350) preached to nude candidates: "You are now stripped and naked, in this also imitating Christ on the Cross. Once again, this is a matter of public shame!
Back to the OT, and with no knowledge of the Exodus cites (note that they claim "the Ten Commandments" say nothing about nudity -- what about the rest of the OT, and as if that were a serious enough issue to be made one of the Top Ten!) or the social world, we are told:
In Old Testament times being nude was very common and accepted. Touching the testicles of a revered superior was a man's way of testifying to the validity of his statement or vow.
Excuse me, but touching is not the same as exposing! To the contrary, as we show, being nude was NOT common and exposure was categorically rejected! The example of Isaiah was part of an oracle of judgment illustrating Israel's shame. Saul's self-exposure was regarded as shameful (and despite the claim, not related to his prophethood!), as was David's "nakedness" (though it is NOT noted that he was gird with a linen ephod; Michal complained of him being underdressed, below his station -- see note on boundaries above -- NOT totally naked!).
Thus it is patently false for Liberated Christians to connect the dislike for nudity in the Church with an "anti-body philosophy" derived from Plato. This was derived from Judaism, and it was not "anti-body" but "anti-purity". What they call the "puritanical perversion that our body is shameful and should be covered up at all times" is found IN the Bible and in pre-NT Judaism.
- JPH
http://www.tektonics.org/libchr/whatsnude.html
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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The folks have itches and they hunt around until they find teachers to scratch the particular itch, by wresting scripture and misinterpreting the Word of God.
The Bible emphasizes modesty. It is immodest to walk around with ones privates exposed. It is a lack of respect for God, for ones family and ones self to be naked in public, and to indoctrinate young children in immorality. The perverts with their cameras have open season at the nudist camps and beaches.
We are to be clothed in the righteousness of Christ lest we be found naked. Adam and Eve lost the covering of God when they sinned and realized they were naked and were rightfully ashamed.
It is in the context of the Word of God, our guideline for understanding, from Genesis to Revelation the concept of being naked/exposed is not a positive but a negative and to be avoided.
Matt. 25:
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Genesis 3:
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
Genesis 9:
20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren
2 Cor. 5:
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Betty Louise
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Never heard of one. But God did give mankind the first clothes. So it seems to me, He wanted us to wear clothes.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Rudimentary
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What do you guys think about people who claim to be Christian nudists? Do you think this is possible? Is it Biblical?
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