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» Christian Message Boards   » Bible Studies   » Exposing False Teaching   » Rapture--A Dangerous DECEPTION (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Rapture--A Dangerous DECEPTION
Caretaker
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LOL @ Bill... [youpi]

One aspect is that the post-toasties have replaced Jacob/Israel with the Church, and then misinterpret scriptures to try to put their square peg in a round hole.

The Bride of Christ, the Church is no longer present on the earth after Revelation 4 until returning with the Bride Groom following the wedding feast in Glory in Revelation 19.

The Tribulation is the Time of Jacob's Trouble, not the Bride's. By replacing Nation Israel/Jacob with the Church they want to take over all the future prophecies and deny what the Word of God truly declares as Israel/Jacob's future. It is inconvenient for their interpretation that Israel was reborn in May 1948.

[Wink]

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Carol Swenson
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LOL
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WildB
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I think that those that don't want to believe what was revealed to Paul/saul personally from Christ out of the 3rd Heaven concerning His Body,

As it matters to Grace and why the rapture,

Only choose to because they still wan't to embrace

WORKS as the sign of redemption!

LOOK AT ME,
MY GREAT FAITH!

Will get me thru 1/2, NO
it will get me thru
ALL of the Great Tribulation.

Because Im a supper dupper saint and your not.

Thats why I AM the great
interputor of text. I have seniority too!

My Great 401 k in Heaven has much more in it than yours..

So there for what I say goes!

Right?

James has a special seat for ya up front, lol.

[cool_shades]

--------------------
That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
The Book of Revelation makes it very obvious that the Tribulation and the Antichrist and his false prophet all come before Christ returns to set up His 1000 year reign.

Rev. 20:7 Now when the thousand years had expired Satan will be released from his prison 8. and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose numbers is as the sands of the sea.
In Revelation 19 Christ returns to destroy the antichrist's army, and He casts the antichrist and false prophet into the lake of fire.

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. 15From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”


20And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. 21And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

And in Revelation 20, Satan is bound for a thousand years and Christ sets up His 1000 year reign.

1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.


Still in Revelation 20, when the 1000 years are over, Satan is let loose and starts a war, but he is quickly defeated and cast into the lake of fire with the antichrist and false prophet.

7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

So, Bob, the antichrist and false prophet and their army exist during the Tribulation BEFORE Christ returns. Then AFTER the 1000 year reign of Christ, Satan is let loose for a short time.

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Caretaker
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http://www.discoverrevelation.com/42.html

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Caretaker
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quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
quote:
Originally posted by Betty Louise:
Sorry Bob, You are way off.
First the rapture, them the tribulation, then the Second Coming, then the Millennial Kingdom.
betty

Hey Betty, how about some Scripture to show me where I'm wrong?
Paul tells us in 1 Thessalonians 1:10 that the Church is waiting for the Lord from Heaven,
not for the Great Tribulation, because He has delivered us from the wrath to come.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 says that God has not appointed us (Christians) to wrath, but to
obtain salvation through Christ. Those who have been "born again" (John 3:3) will soon
be "caught up" to Heaven without dying. Notice what the word of God says:

2Thess. (2:1-3:5)
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our
gathering together unto him,
2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word,
nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there
come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is
worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is
God.
2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until
he be taken out of the way.
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit
of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and
lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they
received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a
lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in
unrighteousness.
2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the
Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through
sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord
Jesus Christ.
2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught,
whether by word, or our epistle.
2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us,
and hath given us everlasting
consolation and good hope through grace,
2:17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and
be glorified, even as it is with you:
3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have
not faith.
3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
3:4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the
things which we command you.
3:5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for
Christ.

In verse 2:7 we see the term "he who now letteth", this is a direct reference to the
restraining influence of the Holy Spirit, who indwells all believers.

"Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a
moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and
the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." (1 Cor. 15:51-52)

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the
archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we
which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one
another with these words." (1 Ths. 4:16-18)

It is a "comfort" for Christians to have this blessed promise. It would NOT be a comfort if
Christians had to endure the Great Tribulation. Our merciful Lord will call the Church out
of this world BEFORE the Tribulation starts. After all, the Church was never really a part
of this evil world system anyhow (Jas. 4:4; Rom. 12:2; Col. 3:2)! We're just passing
through this world to a much better place (Gal. 4:26), and we will be leaving very soon!
What about you?

This great departure of the saints is pictured on various occasions in the Bible. Just as
God took Enoch out of the world before the flood (Gen. 5:24; Heb. 11:5), He will take His
Church out of the world before the Tribulation. Just as God delivered Lot and his family
from the violent judgment upon Sodom (Gen. 19:22-24), He will deliver His saints from
the coming judgment of the Great Tribulation. Like any responsible Father, God will take
proper care of His children. He will destroy the Devil's children (Jhn. 8:44; 1 Jhn. 3:10),
but His own children are safe and secure. As Psalm 145:20 assures us, "The LORD
preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy."

This calling-out of the Church is commonly referred to as the "Rapture" because of the
quick and surprising nature in which it occurs. The world will stand in shock when millions
of Christians suddenly vanish from the face of the earth! The freeways, the
subways, the airports and streets will be in a total shambles as thousands and thousands
of drivers suddenly vanish from their seats! No doubt, millions of people will be killed
immediately.

Those remaining alive will be in shock as they search for their loved ones among all the
demolished cars and buildings. Communications will also be greatly disrupted, because
many key communications people will be caught up in the Rapture.

Opportunists will add to the confusion by looting and killing. They'll feel that during such
an emergency they can get away with anything. There will be worldwide chaos!

Authorities may attempt to explain the millions of missing people, but make no mistake
about it: GOD TOOK THEM! He promised that He would call out His people, so He will call
them out. That's all there is to it.

Many people laugh and make jokes about this Bible doctrine, but there's coming a day
when the laughing will end. Noah was a preacher of righteousness who probably received
a great deal of mocking and ridicule from the world as he built the ark upon dry ground,
but the mocking stopped when the flood waters began to rise. God was true to His word
then, and God will be true to His word today. Jesus is coming soon, and you will either be
caught up to meet Him, or you will be left behind to enter the Great Tribulation. The
choice is yours.

The Judgment Seat of Christ

Once Christians have been caught up to Heaven, we will appear before the Judgment
Seat of Christ to be judged by the Lord for our Christian service. Paul wrote about this
judgment to the Romans and to the Corinthians:

"But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for
we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ." (Rom. 14:10)

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any
man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every
man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be
revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any
man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's
work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by
fire." (1 Cor. 3:11-15)

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive
the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
(2 Cor. 5:10)

As these verses reveal, a Christian isn't judged to determine his eternal destiny. A
Christian's eternal destiny is established the moment he receives Jesus Christ as Savior.
The Judgment Seat of Christ is for judging the Christian's SERVICE while on this
earth. Rewards will be given to some, while others will lose rewards (2 Jhn. 8), but no
one goes to Hell at this judgment.

After the Judgment Seat of Christ, we (Christians) will wait with the Lord in Heaven until
the Great Tribulation is over on earth. We will then take part in the Marriage of the Lamb
and in the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Rev. 19:7-9). This is when the Lord Jesus Christ
and His Bride, the Church, are officially united.

Rev. 19:8
"To her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the
fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Rev. 19:14
"And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine
linen, white and clean."

Notice the fine linen white and clean is the righteousness of saints, which are in heaven.

We will then return with the Lord to the earth, and He will destroy the wicked and
establish the Millennial Kingdom, and His saints will reign with Him on earth for one
thousand years (Rev. 20:1-7).

Zecheriah 12:10
"..and they look upon me whom they have pierced.."

Zecheriah 14:4
"And his feet shall stand that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on
the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and
toward the west.."

Zechariah 14:8,9
"And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them
toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in the summer and in
winter shall it be.
And the Lord shall be king over all the earth; in that day shall there be one Lord, and his
name one."

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Chaplain Bob
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quote:
Originally posted by Betty Louise:
Sorry Bob, You are way off.
First the rapture, them the tribulation, then the Second Coming, then the Millennial Kingdom.
betty

Hey Betty, how about some Scripture to show me where I'm wrong?

--------------------
In His Service,
Bob Allen

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Chaplain Bob
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
The Book of Revelation makes it very obvious that the Tribulation and the Antichrist and his false prophet all come before Christ returns to set up His 1000 year reign.

Rev. 20:7 Now when the thousand years had expired Satan will be released from his prison 8. and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose numbers is as the sands of the sea.

--------------------
In His Service,
Bob Allen

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Chaplain Bob
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Although I have shared with you what God has reviled to me I have not been told to prove anything to you. What you choose to believe is between you and God. However, it's beyond me to understand why you believe the things you do in light of what Rev. 20 & 21 says.

--------------------
In His Service,
Bob Allen

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Betty Louise
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Sorry Bob, You are way off.
First the rapture, them the tribulation, then the Second Coming, then the Millennial Kingdom.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Carol Swenson
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The Book of Revelation makes it very obvious that the Tribulation and the Antichrist and his false prophet all come before Christ returns to set up His 1000 year reign.
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Chaplain Bob
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Kindgo: I have heard it all in my 63 years as a Believer. Most of what you've listed occurs after the Millennial Kingdom. There are no judgements or punishments before the Millennial Kingdom. I have shared what I believe God has revealed to me in the last decade. Whether or not you choose to believe it is between you and God. It certainly is not going to affect your salvation. But you just may be in for a big surprise.

--------------------
In His Service,
Bob Allen

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Carol Swenson
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Amen Kindgo!!!
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Kindgo
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Bob...

Jesus did say, "Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh" (Matthew 24:44). The only time frame I can think of when we believers would not be expecting Jesus to return would have to be before the tribulation.

--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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Kindgo
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Bob....

After Jesus returns to earth at His 2nd Coming, He will rule on earth for 1,000 years. We call this period of Christ's rule on earth "the Millennium" which means "1,000 years." Listed below are events that will take place during that time.

1. Battle of Armageddon occurs at 2nd Coming of Christ. Rev 19:11-21
2. Antichrist & false prophet thrown into the lake of fire. Rev 19:20
3. Satan is bound in the abyss for 1,000 years. Rev 20:1-3
4. Believers who were killed during the Tribulation are resurrected. Rev 20:4
5. The Old Testament believers are resurrected. Dan 12:1-2
6. The people who are alive at 2nd coming are judged by Jesus. Matt 25:31-46
7. The wicked are gathered out of His kingdom. Matt 13:30,41-42,49-50, 25:41
8. The believers enter His kingdom and begin to repopulate the earth. Matt 3:43, Zech. 14:6, Matt 19:28 (regeneration means 'repopulation')
9. Jesus will rule the world from Jerusalem (Zion) Rev. 20:4, Isa 2:1-4, Ps. 2:6-9, 48:1-2, Zech 8:3-13, Joel 3:16-17,21, Ezek 48:35, Zech 14
10. The 12 tribes are restored to Israel. Ezek 40-48, Matt 19:28, Lk 22:30, Acts 1:6
11. The 12 apostles, in resurrected bodies, rule over the 12 tribes of Israel. Matt 19:28, Luke 22:30
12. Many people will come from the east and west to eat with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who will be in their resurrected bodies. Matt 8:11, Luke 13:-28-29
13. The curse on earth is lifted (no more stickers, weeds) Rom 8:19-21,Zech 14:11
14. The curse on animals is lifted (no more danger) Isa 11:6-9, 35:9. 65:25
15. Longevity of life will be extended. Isa 65:20
16. People on earth, in their natural bodies, won't get sick. Isa 33:24, Jer 30:17
17. Children will be born during this time. Their parents will be those who survived Armageddon and entered the Kingdom (the Millennium) Zech 8:1-8, 14:6, Isa 65:20, 23, Ezek 47:22, Jer 31:27-40, Rev 20:8-9
18. People born during this time will sin and need to be saved. Isa 65:20, Zech 14:17-19, Rev 20:8-9
19. Some will die during this time. Jer 31:29-30, Isa 65:20,22
20. They will work and live in houses during this time. Isa 65:21-23, Jer 31:5
21. By the end of the 1,000 years, the world population will have increased from a few at the beginning (Zech 14:16) to great multitudes. Rev 20:7-9
22. Satan will be loosed from the abyss at the end of the 1,000 years to tempt the people who have been born during this time. Even though they have seen Jesus in Jerusalem (Zech 14:16), they will refuse to follow Him. Zech 14:17-18
23. They even try, through a final revolt, to overthrow His kingdom. Rev 20:7-9
24. Satan is thrown into the lake of fire. Rev 20:10
25. GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT. The spirits of all the wicked from all time are released from hell (Hades) to be judged. Rev 20:12. They receive their resurrected bodies according to their deeds, Rev 20:13, John 5:29, Acts 24:15, and are cast into the lake of fire (Gehenna) Rev 20:15, Mt 10:28, 18:8-9
26. God creates New Heaven & New Earth. Isa 65:17,66:22, 2 Pet 3:13, Rev 21:1

--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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Chaplain Bob
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Read Rev.20 & 21. The next thing that is to happen in the order of end-times events is Jesus returning to establish His Millennial Kingdom on this earth. At that time those who have rejected Him and Satan will be removed ("raptured" if you will) and cast into the bottomless pit where they will remain for a thousand years. At the end of that time the Believers will be taken from this earth and Satan and those who rejected Him will be returned to this earth for the "Great Tribulation". At the end of that God will destroy this earth, create a new Earth and heavens (space) and the judgments and rewards will take place. We will spend eternity on the new Earth (not in Heaven as is often falsely taught) and God (Jesus) will be with us. Different than anything you've heard before? Ask God about it and be prepared to listen to HIM.

--------------------
In His Service,
Bob Allen

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Carol Swenson
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Amen Caretaker!
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Caretaker
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Rapture vs. Second Coming

R = Rapture
SC = Second Coming

R-
Jesus coming FOR His Church. John 14:1-3, 1
Thess 4:14-17


SC-
Jesus coming WITH His Church Col 3:4, Zech
14:5, Jude 14, Rev 19:14


R-
Caught up with Him in the air 1 Thess 4:13-18

SC-
Jesus' feet touch the earth Zech 14:4,
Rev:19:11-21


R-
Christians taken first, unbelievers are left behind. 1
Thess 4:13-18

SC-
Wicked are taken first, the righteous (Tribulation
saints) are left behind.Matt 13:28-30

R-
Purpose: To present the Church to Himself and to
the Father 2 Cor 11:2, Rev. 19:6-9

SC-
Purpose: To execute judgment on earth and set up
His Kingdom Jude 14-15,Rev 19:11-21, Zech
14:3-4

R-
MARRIAGE: Marriage of Lamb in heaven after
the Rapture

SC-
WAR: Marriage is followed by war on earth at the
2nd coming

R-
Happens in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye
(too fast for eyes to see) 1 Cor 15:52

SC-
Slow coming, people will see Him come back.Zech
12:10 Matt 24:30, Rev 1:7

R-
Only Christians will see Him 1 John 3:2, 1 Cor
15:52

SC-
Every eye will see Him Rev. 1:7

R-
Jesus descends with a shout(for resurrection) 1
Thess 4:16
SC-
No shout mentioned Rev. 19:11-21

R-
A resurrection takes place 1 Thess 4:13-18, 1 Cor
15:51-54
SC-
No resurrection mentioned Rev 1:7, 19:11-21,
Zech 12:10, 14:4-5

R-
Can happen at any time Rev 3:3, 1 Thess 5:4-6

SC-
Occurs at end of 7 years of Tribulation Dan
9:24-27Matt 24:29-30, 2 Thess 2:3-8

R-
No angels are sent to gather (resurrected people
don't need angels to help them)

SC_
Angels sent forth to gather people together for
judgment Matt 13:39, 41, 49, 24:31, 25:31, 2
Thess 1:7-10


R-
Spirits of those dead in Christ return with Jesus to
receive their their resurrected bodies 1 Thess
4:14-16

SC-
Christians return with Jesus in already resurrected
bodies riding on white horses. Rev 19:11-21


R-
Jesus does not return on a white horse
SC-
Jesus returns on a white horse Rev 19:11


R-
For the Church only (those in Christ) 1 Thess
4:14-17

SC-
For redeemed Israel & Gentiles Rom 11:25-27,
Matt 25:31-46


R-
A message of hope and comfort 1 Thess 4:18,
Titus 2:13, 1 John 3:3

SC-
A message of judgment Joel 3:12-16, Rev
19:11-21, Mal 4:5

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Chaplain Bob
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
quote:
Originally posted by scotknight:
...and you prove the point. Those in darkness do not understand when He comes to take His own. If He takes His own, then it is to somewhere...caught up, as He has previously said. "The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not" (John 1:5). There is a lot of light here. If God's people are caught up to meet Him, then what we term "rapture" has occurred. You must deny I Thess 4:17 to deny a "rapture," or catching away. Explain away as you like. It can only mean one thing.

Amen Bro!!!

He is coming back for us to go to the Father's House for the Wedding in Glory!!

Maranatha!!!!

Read Rev. 21. It shows clearly that our eternal home will be the New Earth not "the Father's house".

The "Rapture theory as it is commonly taught is deceptive, confusing and wrong. Take all the "Rapture" verses commonly used and apply them to this scenario:

I believe it is possible we are in the tribulation at this time. Just look around the world. Things that were foretold is happening all around us. The next thing to happen will be the Lord returning to establish His Millennial Kingdom on this Earth. At that time it will be Satan and the lost who are "raptured" (Rev. 20).
Rev. also describes life during this Millennial Kingdom. At the end of that time the Believers will be taken and Satan and the lost who were removed will be returned to the Earth for the "Great Tribulation". At the end of that time the judgements will take place, God will destroy the heavens and this Earth, create a New Earth and Heavens (space) and the Believers will spend Eternity on the New Earth (not Heaven as has been erroneously taught).

I was for decades deceived by the "Rapture theory" teaching. But back in the 90s I believe the above scenario was revealed to me by the Lord. Before you die-hard "Rapture" believers start arguing with me I must say it is not my responsibility to prove anything to you. If you have trouble with what I have said talk to God about it and ask Him to show you the truth. The fact that you do or do not believe the "Rapture Theory" (which came into existence only in the mid 1800s) is not going to affect your salvation one way or another.

--------------------
In His Service,
Bob Allen

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Caretaker
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In the near future God will put Israel through a very troublesome period of time known as
the "great tribulation" (Mat. 24:21), but Christians will not have to endure the
Tribulation.

Paul tells us in 1 Thessalonians 1:10 that the Church is waiting for the Lord from Heaven,
not for the Great Tribulation, because He has delivered us from the wrath to come.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 says that God has not appointed us (Christians) to wrath, but to
obtain salvation through Christ. Those who have been "born again" (John 3:3) will soon
be "caught up" to Heaven without dying. Notice what the word of God says:

2Thess. (2:1-3:5)
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our
gathering together unto him,
2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word,
nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there
come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is
worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is
God.
2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until
he be taken out of the way.
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit
of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and
lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they
received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a
lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in
unrighteousness.
2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the
Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through
sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord
Jesus Christ.
2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught,
whether by word, or our epistle.
2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us,
and hath given us everlasting
consolation and good hope through grace,
2:17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and
be glorified, even as it is with you:
3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have
not faith.
3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
3:4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the
things which we command you.
3:5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for
Christ.

In verse 2:7 we see the term "he who now letteth", this is a direct reference to the
restraining influence of the Holy Spirit, who indwells all believers.

"Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a
moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and
the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." (1 Cor. 15:51-52)

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the
archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we
which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one
another with these words." (1 Ths. 4:16-18)

It is a "comfort" for Christians to have this blessed promise. It would NOT be a comfort if
Christians had to endure the Great Tribulation. Our merciful Lord will call the Church out
of this world BEFORE the Tribulation starts. After all, the Church was never really a part
of this evil world system anyhow (Jas. 4:4; Rom. 12:2; Col. 3:2)! We're just passing
through this world to a much better place (Gal. 4:26), and we will be leaving very soon!
What about you?

This great departure of the saints is pictured on various occasions in the Bible. Just as
God took Enoch out of the world before the flood (Gen. 5:24; Heb. 11:5), He will take His
Church out of the world before the Tribulation. Just as God delivered Lot and his family
from the violent judgment upon Sodom (Gen. 19:22-24), He will deliver His saints from
the coming judgment of the Great Tribulation. Like any responsible Father, God will take
proper care of His children. He will destroy the Devil's children (Jhn. 8:44; 1 Jhn. 3:10),
but His own children are safe and secure. As Psalm 145:20 assures us, "The LORD
preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy."

This calling-out of the Church is commonly referred to as the "Rapture" because of the
quick and surprising nature in which it occurs. The world will stand in shock when millions
of Christians suddenly vanish from the face of the earth! The freeways, the
subways, the airports and streets will be in a total shambles as thousands and thousands
of drivers suddenly vanish from their seats! No doubt, millions of people will be killed
immediately.

Those remaining alive will be in shock as they search for their loved ones among all the
demolished cars and buildings. Communications will also be greatly disrupted, because
many key communications people will be caught up in the Rapture.

Opportunists will add to the confusion by looting and killing. They'll feel that during such
an emergency they can get away with anything. There will be worldwide chaos!

Authorities may attempt to explain the millions of missing people, but make no mistake
about it: GOD TOOK THEM! He promised that He would call out His people, so He will call
them out. That's all there is to it.

Many people laugh and make jokes about this Bible doctrine, but there's coming a day
when the laughing will end. Noah was a preacher of righteousness who probably received
a great deal of mocking and ridicule from the world as he built the ark upon dry ground,
but the mocking stopped when the flood waters began to rise. God was true to His word
then, and God will be true to His word today. Jesus is coming soon, and you will either be
caught up to meet Him, or you will be left behind to enter the Great Tribulation. The
choice is yours.

The Judgment Seat of Christ

Once Christians have been caught up to Heaven, we will appear before the Judgment
Seat of Christ to be judged by the Lord for our Christian service. Paul wrote about this
judgment to the Romans and to the Corinthians:

"But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for
we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ." (Rom. 14:10)

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any
man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every
man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be
revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any
man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's
work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by
fire." (1 Cor. 3:11-15)

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive
the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
(2 Cor. 5:10)

As these verses reveal, a Christian isn't judged to determine his eternal destiny. A
Christian's eternal destiny is established the moment he receives Jesus Christ as Savior.
The Judgment Seat of Christ is for judging the Christian's SERVICE while on this
earth. Rewards will be given to some, while others will lose rewards (2 Jhn. 8), but no
one goes to Hell at this judgment.

After the Judgment Seat of Christ, we (Christians) will wait with the Lord in Heaven until
the Great Tribulation is over on earth. We will then take part in the Marriage of the Lamb
and in the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Rev. 19:7-9). This is when the Lord Jesus Christ
and His Bride, the Church, are officially united.

Rev. 19:8
"To her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the
fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Rev. 19:14
"And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine
linen, white and clean."

Notice the fine linen white and clean is the righteousness of saints, which are in heaven.

We will then return with the Lord to the earth, and He will destroy the wicked and
establish the Millennial Kingdom, and His saints will reign with Him on earth for one
thousand years (Rev. 20:1-7).

Zecheriah 12:10
"..and they look upon me whom they have pierced.."

Zecheriah 14:4
"And his feet shall stand that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on
the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and
toward the west.."

Zechariah 14:8,9
"And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them
toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in the summer and in
winter shall it be.
And the Lord shall be king over all the earth; in that day shall there be one Lord, and his
name one."
------------------

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Caretaker
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quote:
Originally posted by scotknight:
...and you prove the point. Those in darkness do not understand when He comes to take His own. If He takes His own, then it is to somewhere...caught up, as He has previously said. "The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not" (John 1:5). There is a lot of light here. If God's people are caught up to meet Him, then what we term "rapture" has occurred. You must deny I Thess 4:17 to deny a "rapture," or catching away. Explain away as you like. It can only mean one thing.

Amen Bro!!!

He is coming back for us to go to the Father's House for the Wedding in Glory!!

Maranatha!!!!

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Carol Swenson
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You both believe in the Rapture! [rapture] Me too!


"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words." (1 Thess, 4:16-18).

The word "rapture" comes from Paul's "caught up" remark in verse 17. The words "caught up" are translated from the Greek word harpazo, which means "to carry off," "snatch up," or "grasp hastily."

The translation from harpazo to "rapture" involved two steps: first, harpazo became the Latin word raptus; second, raptus became the English word "rapture."

And the Rapture will occur before the 7 year Tribulation begins.

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scotknight
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...and you prove the point. Those in darkness do not understand when He comes to take His own. If He takes His own, then it is to somewhere...caught up, as He has previously said. "The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not" (John 1:5). There is a lot of light here. If God's people are caught up to meet Him, then what we term "rapture" has occurred. You must deny I Thess 4:17 to deny a "rapture," or catching away. Explain away as you like. It can only mean one thing.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by scotknight:
...but you do not have a Bible. The word is not in the book. Check the Greek word again...harpazo: to seize; catch; pull; take by force; from the word harpagmos: plunder; robbery. As Paul said in I Thess 5:2, as a "thief in the night." Caught up or caught away, in all senses of the word "harpazo," it's a leaving to be with him. If you'd like to walk, be our guest.

5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

--------------------
That is all.....

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Caretaker
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The Bride Groom cometh to gather His Bride and we need to be ready with oil in our lamps and ready and watching for Him.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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scotknight
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...but you do not have a Bible. The word is not in the book. Check the Greek word again...harpazo: to seize; catch; pull; take by force; from the word harpagmos: plunder; robbery. As Paul said in I Thess 5:2, as a "thief in the night." Caught up or caught away, in all senses of the word "harpazo," it's a leaving to be with him. If you'd like to walk, be our guest.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by scotknight:
So, the word "rapture" is not in the Bible! There's a revelation in itself! Oh, by the way, the word "Bible" is not in the Bible either. Does that mean it does not exist? What should we name that event in I Thessalonians 4:17? The word "rapture" means a catching away...exactly what Paul wrote in I Thess 4:17...

This Greek word harpozo is literally translated “caught up” ... The word with the meaning of rapture in the Bible is the Greek word harpozo.

--------------------
That is all.....

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scotknight
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So, the word "rapture" is not in the Bible! There's a revelation in itself! Oh, by the way, the word "Bible" is not in the Bible either. Does that mean it does not exist? What should we name that event in I Thessalonians 4:17? The word "rapture" means a catching away...exactly what Paul wrote in I Thess 4:17...
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panza70
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quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Betty Louise:
Panza,

Don't bother. People who do not believe in the pre-trib rapture do not want to know the truth.
The way I see it,it is not a salvation issue and when the rapture happens they will know the truth.
Have a blessed day.
betty

Lol, its these fair weather , bleacher preachers, who are not in-gauged in the true war of Christ today that make such BOLD statement's.

Ezekiel 13:20 and you other fair weather , bleacher preachers, enter into Christs suffering today and stop this sillyness.

Just do it.


[rapture]
[Quote] You really should read Ezk.13:17-20. It doesn't concern the Rapture... [Bible]
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Betty Louise:
Panza,

Don't bother. People who do not believe in the pre-trib rapture do not want to know the truth.
The way I see it,it is not a salvation issue and when the rapture happens they will know the truth.
Have a blessed day.
betty

Lol, its these fair weather , bleacher preachers, who are not in-gauged in the true war of Christ today that make such BOLD statement's.

Ezekiel 13:20 and you other fair weather , bleacher preachers, enter into Christs suffering today and stop this sillyness.

Just do it.


[rapture]

--------------------
That is all.....

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Eduardo Grequi
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You go girl! When the rapture happens you will know it! [clap2] [hyper]
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Betty Louise
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Panza,

Don't bother. People who do not believe in the pre-trib rapture do not want to know the truth.
The way I see it,it is not a salvation issue and when the rapture happens they will know the truth.
Have a blessed day.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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panza70
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quote:
Originally posted by Ezekiel 13:20:
In his new book,Rapture a Dangerous DECEPTION.
Ret.Marine Corps Col. H. Speed Wilson exposes the origion of the False Doctrine of pre-tib rapture.
This is an excelent book for those Christians who have been beguiled by False teachers who teach the foolishness of pre-trib rapture.

ISBN# 978-1-60791-454-9
Don't be deceived by FALSE TEACHERS of the easy out,bail out doctrine!

I'd be glad to show you some scriptures about the Rapture.
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Caretaker
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
This must be North Carolina again

Looks as though. Beating a dead horse and making it into spam.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Carol Swenson
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This must be North Carolina again
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lastprophet
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1 Thess 4:17

17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
NKJV
meet the lord where i n the a i r caugh where up John 14:1-4
14:1 The Way, the Truth, and the Life "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.

2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

4 And where I go you know, and the way you know."
NKJV
where is his fathers house? 2 Cor 12:2-3

2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago — whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows — such a one was caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I know such a man — whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows —
NKJV
which way is up? 2 Kings 2:11

11 Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
NKJV
is this caught up,rapture what u want to call looks like it happen onces before nothing new and my my where did he go do tell oh heaven what. Eccl 1:9-10

9 That which has been is what will be, That which is done is what will be done, And there is nothing new under the sun.

10 Is there anything of which it may be said, "See, this is new"? It has already been in ancient times before us.
NKJV
Heb 11:5

5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, "and was not found, because God had taken him"; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
NKJV
taking alive oh boy no another one rapture caught up taking nothing new i c Gen 5:23-24

23 So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years.

24 And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
NKJV
must be nice it does happen same god he can do it again u think ? take me up rapture caught up or asend to heaven what word means up would u like to use ^

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lastprophet
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we will be raptured after tribulation1 Thess 4:13-5:1

13 The Comfort of Christ's Coming But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.


NKJV
1 Cor 15:50-58

50 Our Final Victory Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed —

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

55 "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?"

56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.
NKJV
1 Cor 15:50-58
John 5:28-30

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice

29 and come forth — those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
NKJV
look who refuse the mark of the best Rev 20:4-6

4 The Saints Reign with Christ 1000 Years And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
NKJV
so their not a 3rd comeing or a 4th comeing so only the second comeing and the only other time will be 1000 yrs only going up ones saint everybody else that makes it here on earth 1000 yrs and we will rule with christ a 1000 yrs as kings and priest over who and what? Rev 20:6-10

6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

7 Satanic Rebellion Crushed (cf. Ezek 38; 39) Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison

8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
NKJV
so point is he only come back 1 time for his saints no 3rd or 4th or 5th (1 time)the will go thur thousand years so matt,mark,luke,thess would have to be right after tribulation

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lastprophet
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we will be caught up (rapture)1 thess 16-17 after the great tribulation Rev 20:6-10

6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

7 Satanic Rebellion Crushed (cf. Ezek 38; 39) Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison

8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
NKJV
1 Cor 15:50-58

50 Our Final Victory Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed —

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

55 "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?"

56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.
NKJV
John 5:28-30

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice

29 and come forth — those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
NKJV
we will be caught up in the air to meet him (rapture call it what u like takeing up still rapture) u still get a plus your getting their

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lastprophet
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I agree A PLUS WE MUST SEE THE ANTICHRIST IN ORDER TO REFUSE THE MARK U WILL BE HEAR AND GODS WRATH DONT START UNTIL after Matt 24:15-22

15 The Great Tribulation (Mark 13:14-23; Luke 17:23,24,37; 21:20-24) "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),

16 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house.

18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.

19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!

20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
NKJV
TIME has already speed up days going fast week,month.Matt 24:29

29 The Coming of the Son of Man (Mark 13:24-27; Luke 21:25-28) "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
NKJV
immediatey what ? after the tribulation again what after what Mark 13:24

24 The Coming of the Son of Man (Matt 24:29-31; Luke 21:25-28) "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;
NKJV
what again .jesus said he told us this be before 2 Thess 2:5-6

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
NKJV
where else is this i dont understand where else Dan 12:8 - Hos 1:1

8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, "My lord, what shall be the end of these things?"

9 And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

13 "But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days."


NKJV
i guess will be here but i was told i wouldnt what happen what did i miss 2 Thess 2:1-4
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
KJV
so its true he must be reveal oh boy so i guess i better be ready some body have giving us 2 Thess 2:11

11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
NKJV
so now u c we will be here why now we just find out these thing i dont understand Dan 12:4

4 "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."
NKJV
oh so thats why Col 1:26

26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints.
NKJV
so to all less all keep praying and watching in just a little while we will all no truth Joel 2:28-32

28 God's Spirit Poured Out "And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions.

29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

30 "And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.

32 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the LORD has said, Among the remnant whom the LORD calls.
NKJV
so keep the faith as we learn will see the antichrist and holy spirit will prepair us all amen good night saints gods blessing to all

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talk about grasping at straws.......

this is not a rapture but a calling up for visions


did john get called up and translated or called up to the third heaven and see the same visions of daniel. did john return or stay in heaven? he returned. confusion again has gotten hold and is trying to work let see what paul says

2 Corinthians 12
1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

4How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

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bible and grandfather? is any one of those words coming to fly people away? this is serious or I take the word of God serious. Ya'll tell me what happens and show me in the bible, sounds like the joseph smith with his divinations and magic stones.

can we agree that Christ comes after the antiChrist and after the tribulation like HE said so or do you dispute Christ's word?

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The book of I Thess chapter 4 defines the rapture:

(1Th 4:13) But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.


the dead is the subject


(1Th 4:14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.


if you believe Christ died and rose again He will bring back the saved dead with Him, how can HE do this if they are not there?


(1Th 4:15) For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.


those of us who are here till the LORD returns will be gathered together at the end after the tares fly away , we can't preseed them or prevent them people say they graves will open and the saved will rise this is THE verse that says NO the saved are with Christ


(1Th 4:16) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.


which trump brother? the last trump! how many trumps are there 7 when does Christ say He returns? Matt 24 After the tribulation and After antiChrist. any other doctrine besides what Christ says is of satan right?


(1Th 4:17) Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.


those that are alive, make it through the tribulation will be gathered together as wheat after the antiChrist,after the tribulation, after the falling away, after the tares are gathered to be burned again every bit of this is scripture and the doctrine of Christ, opposite of this is calling Christ a liar.
(1Th 4:18) Therefore comfort one another with these words.

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quote:
Originally posted by Watchmen of Christ:
where is rapture in the bible?

Where is "Bible" in the scriptures???

Where is "grandfather" in the Bible????

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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WildB
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Ezekiel 13:18-20 "the souls that ye hunt to make them fly"
Does this verse refute the doctrine of the rapture? No, because it's not about the rapture at all.

Those who attack the pre-tribulation rapture are so filled with blind hatred of the doctrine, that they often forget that the rapture is directly referenced in the Bible in multiple places, such as 1 Thess 4:17, and 1 Cor 15, and that the real debate is about the timing of the rapture.

But they sometimes read Ezekiel 13:18-20 in the King James, and wrongly conclude this is a condemnation of rapture teachers, who they see as being people who "hunt the souls to make them fly." And, they wrongly interpret the reference to "fly" as a reference to what they call the "fly away" doctrine of the rapture. But if we look up this verse in multiple translations, it clearly shows that the subject of Ezekiel 13:18-20 is not the rapture at all.

In Ezekiel 13:18-20, the subject appears to be fortune tellers, (women who read taro cards, gaze into crystal balls, palm reading and the like) who are prophesying strictly out of their own imagination (or reading into people's own desires) for money. These would be like those who work for the psychic hot lines today. There were these kinds of people even in King Saul's day, he "had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land." (1 Samuel 28:3), but ended consulting one anyway, (1 Sam 28:7), "...Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her..." The kinds of prophecy these people engaged in was a personal type of prophecy, such as "you will be rich," or "you will get married soon," that has nothing whatsoever to do with Bible Prophecy, because the subject of Bible Prophecy is not the individual, but of Jesus Christ.

Second, the magic charms or pillows on the armholes or shirt sleeves are the thing that is used to deceive and hunt people. Weird, I know, but customs were different then. I don't know of any pretrib prophecy teacher who uses extravagant magic charms or "fortune-teller type" clothing on his arm sleeves, as the means to convince people of the pretrib rapture doctrine!

Third, the phase "to make them fly" is not rendered that way in any translation listed below except for the KJV! Thus, this proves quite easily that the subject is not a "fly away" doctrine. The subject is ensnaring people. In fact, the point of the use of the words "fly away" is that the Lord will help people to escape the clutches of these fortune tellers.

KJV: Ezekiel 13:
18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

NIV Ezekiel 13:20 "`Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against your magic charms with which you ensnare people like birds and I will tear them from your arms; I will set free the people that you ensnare like birds.

NASB Ezekiel 13:20 Therefore, thus says the Lord GOD, ""Behold, I am against your magic bands by which you hunt [15] lives there as [16] birds and I will tear them from your arms; and I will let [17] them go, even those [18] lives whom you hunt as [19] birds.

RSV Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am against your magic bands with which you hunt the souls, and I will tear them from your arms; and I will let the souls that you hunt go free like birds.

DARBY Ezekiel 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I am against your pillows, that the souls which ye catch by their means may fly away; and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, the souls that ye catch, that they may fly away.

Young's Ezekiel 13:20 Therefore, thus said the Lord Jehovah: Lo, I [am] against your pillows, With which ye are hunting there the souls of the flourishing, And I have rent them from off your arms, And have sent away the souls that ye are hunting, The souls of the flourishing.

The true irony here is that the verses actually show that the Lord wants us to fly away, to escape, to be free, like the birds!

Therefore, this is really one of the most groundless arguments floating around used to attack the rapture. Relatively few people have been so deceived as to use this completely inapplicable scripture in their collection of "no rapture" arguments. But for those who do, you can see that such authors have absolutely no respect for study, no respect for the meaning of words, and that they will use anything that sounds like it might be against the rapture to try and make their case. This goes to show the susceptibility to deception, and/or willingness to tell lies on the part of those who attack the rapture.

If you ever see anyone using this particular "no pretrib proof", you know that their scholarship and understanding of scripture needs a lot more work.

Here's one more on topic, for good measure:

Isaiah 40:31
but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.

Furthermore, their bad argument highlights the truth of why there are heresies in the Church!

1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

[rapture] [/qb][/QUOTE]Ezekiel 13:20
Wherefore thus saith the Lord God, behold, I [am] against
your pillows
Not only had an abhorrence of them, but was determined to destroy them, detect their fallacies, and expose the folly of such actions, and them to shame and contempt: wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make [them] fly;
to the places where they prophesied; into the toils and nets they spread for them, in order to catch them with their divinations and prophecies, and make a gain of them: or, "into the gardens", or "groves" F15; there to commit idolatry, ( Isaiah 65:3 ) ; and I will tear them from your arms;
by which it seems that those pillows were not only put under the arms of those that came to inquire of these female prophets or fortune tellers; but they put them under their own arms, and lay upon them as if they were asleep, and in a trance or ecstasy; and so the kerchiefs or veils were upon their heads, which covered their faces, to show that they were quite retired from the world, and wholly attentive to the visions and revelations they pretended were made them by the Lord; and which they gave out, in this superstitious way, to the credulous people that flocked about them: and will let the souls go, [even] the souls that ye hunt to make [them]
fly;
which were captivated with their superstitions; drawn into their nets and snares; decoyed into the gardens, where they were prevailed upon to sacrifice to idols, and were taken with their soothsaying and lying divinations; these the Lord promises to break the snare for them, and set them at liberty, and preserve them from that ruin and destruction they were ready to come into; see ( Psalms 124:7 ) .


[rapture] [/qb][/QUOTE]Barnes' Notes on the Bible
To make them fly - If the marginal reading "into gardens" be adopted, it must mean, Ye entice men to the gardens or groves, where magical arts are practiced. That groves were used for this purpose and for idolatrous rites is notorious.

Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
The souls that ye hunt to make them fly - לפרחות lephorechoth, into the flower gardens, says Parkhurst. These false prophetesses decoyed men into these gardens, where probably some impure rites of worship were performed, as in that of אשרה Asherah or Venus. See Parkhurst under פרח.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Wherefore thus saith the Lord God, behold, I am against your pillows,.... Not only had an abhorrence of them, but was determined to destroy them, detect their fallacies, and expose the folly of such actions, and them to shame and contempt:

wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly; to the places where they prophesied; into the toils and nets they spread for them, in order to catch them with their divinations and prophecies, and make a gain of them: or, "into the gardens", or "groves" (o); there to commit idolatry, Isaiah 65:3;

and I will tear them from your arms; by which it seems that those pillows were not only put under the arms of those that came to inquire of these female prophets or fortune tellers; but they put them under their own arms, and lay upon them as if they were asleep, and in a trance or ecstasy; and so the kerchiefs or veils were upon their heads, which covered their faces, to show that they were quite retired from the world, and wholly attentive to the visions and revelations they pretended were made them by the Lord; and which they gave out, in this superstitious way, to the credulous people that flocked about them:

and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly; which were captivated with their superstitions; drawn into their nets and snares; decoyed into the gardens, where they were prevailed upon to sacrifice to idols, and were taken with their soothsaying and lying divinations; these the Lord promises to break the snare for them, and set them at liberty, and preserve them from that ruin and destruction they were ready to come into; see Psalm 124:7.

(o) "in floralia", Junius & Tremellius, Polanus, Starckius; "in floridis hortis", Piscator.

Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament
Punishment of the False Prophetesses

Ezekiel 13:20. Therefore thus saith the Lord Jehovah, Behold, I will deal with your coverings with which ye catch, I will let the souls fly; and I will tear them away from your arms, and set the souls free, which ye catch, the souls to fly. Ezekiel 13:21. And I will tear your caps in pieces, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall no more become a prey in your hands; and ye shall learn that I am Jehovah. Ezekiel 13:22. Because ye grieve the heart of the righteous with lying, when I have not pained him; and strengthen the hands of the wicked, so that he does not turn from his evil way, to preserve his life. Ezekiel 13:23. Therefore ye shall no more see vanity, and no longer practise soothsaying: and I will deliver my people out of your hand; and ye shall learn that I am Jehovah. - The threat of judgment is closely connected with the reproof of their sins. Ezekiel 13:20 and Ezekiel 13:21 correspond to the reproof in Ezekiel 13:18, and Ezekiel 13:22 and Ezekiel 13:23 to that in Ezekiel 13:19. In the first place, the Lord will tear in pieces the coverings and caps, i.e., the tissue of lies woven by the false prophetesses, and rescue the people from their snares (Ezekiel 13:20 and Ezekiel 13:21); and, secondly, He will entirely put an end to the pernicious conduct of the persons addressed (Ezekiel 13:22 and Ezekiel 13:23). The words from אשׁר אתּנּה to לפרחות (Ezekiel 13:20), when taken as one clause, as they generally are, offer insuperable difficulties, since it is impossible to get any satisfactory meaning from שׁם, and לפרחות will not fit in. Whether we understand by kesâthōth coverings or cushions, the connection of שׁם with אשׁר (where ye catch the souls), which the majority of commentators prefer, is untenable; for coverings and cushions were not the places where the souls were caught, but could only be the means employed for catching them. Instead of שׁם we should expect בּם or בּהם; and Hitzig proposes to amend it in this way. Still less admissible is the proposal to take שׁם as referring to Jerusalem ("wherewith ye catch souls there"); as שׁם would not only contain a perfectly superfluous definition of locality, but would introduce a limitation altogether at variance with the context. It is not affirmed either of the prophets or of the prophetesses that they lived and prophesied in Jerusalem alone. In Ezekiel 13:2 and Ezekiel 13:17 reference is made in the most general terms to the prophets of Israel and the daughters of thy people; and in Ezekiel 13:16 it is simply stated that the false prophets prophesied peace to Jerusalem when there was no peace at all. Consequently we must regard the attempt to find in שׁם an allusion to Jerusalem (cf. Ezekiel 13:16) as a mere loophole, which betrays an utter inability to get any satisfactory sense for the word. Moreover, if we construe the words in this manner, לפרחות is also incomprehensible. Commentators have for the most part admitted that פּרח taht is used here in the Aramaean sense of volare, to fly. In the second half of the verse there is no doubt about its having this meaning. For שׁלּח is used in Deuteronomy 22:7 for liberating a bird, or letting it fly; and the combination שׁלּח is supported by the expression שׁלּח לחפשׁי in Exodus 21:26, while the comparison of souls to birds is sustained by Psalm 11:1 and Psalm 124:7. Hence the true meaning of the whole passage לפרחות... שׁלּחתּי את־הנּפשׁות is, I send away (set free) the souls, which ye have caught, as flying ones, i.e., so that they shall be able to fly away at liberty. And in the first half also we must not adopt a different rendering for לפרחות, since את־הנּפשׁות is also connected with it there.

But if the words in question are combined into one clause in the first hemistich, they will give us a sense which is obviously wrong, viz., "wherewith ye catch the souls to let them fly." As the impossibility of adopting this rendering has been clearly seen, the attempt has been made to cloak over the difficulty by means of paraphrases. Ewald, for example, renders לפרחות in both cases "as if they were birds of passage;" but in the first instance he applies it to birds of passage, for which nets are spread for the purpose of catching them; and in the second, to birds of passage which are set at liberty. Thus, strictly speaking, he understands the first לפרחות as signifying the catching of birds; and the second, letting them fly: an explanation which refutes itself, as pârach, to fly, cannot mean "to catch" as well. The rendering adopted by Kimchi, Rosenmller, and others, who translate לפרחות ut advolent ad vos in the first hemistich, and ut avolent in the second, is no better. And the difficulty is not removed by resorting to the dialects, as Hvernick, for the purpose of forcing upon פּרחות the meaning dissoluteness of licentiousness, for which there is no authority in the Hebrew language itself. If, therefore, it is impossible to obtain any satisfactory meaning from the existing text, it cannot be correct; and no other course is open to us than to alter the unsuitable שׁם into שׂם, and divide the words from אשׁר אתּנּה to לפרחות into two clauses, as we have done in our translation above. There is no necessity to supply anything to the relative אשׁר, as צוּד is construed with a double accusative (e.g., Micah 7:2, צוּד חרם, to catch with a net), and the object to מצדדות, viz., the souls, can easily be supplied from the next clause. שׂם, as a participle, can either be connected with הנני, "behold, I make," or taken as introducing an explanatory clause: "making the souls into flying ones," i.e., so that they are able to fly (שׁוּם ל, Genesis 12:2, etc.). The two clauses of the first hemistich would then exactly correspond to the two clauses of the second half of the verse. וקרעתּי אתם is explanatory of הנני אל כסת, I will tear off the coverings from their arms. These words do not require the assumption that the prophetesses wore the לסתות on their arms, but may be fully explained from the supposition that the persons in question prepared them with their own hands. 'ושׁלּחתּי וגו corresponds to 'שׂם את־הנּפשׁות וגו; and לפרחות is governed by שׁלּחתּי. The insertion of את־הנּפשׁים is to be accounted for from the copious nature of Ezekiel's style; at the same time, it is not merely a repetition of את־הנּפשׁות, which is separated from לפרחות by the relative clause 'אשׁר אתּם מח, but as the unusual plural form נפשׁים shows, is intended as a practical explanation of the fact, that the souls, while compared to birds, are regarded as living beings, which is the meaning borne by נפשׁ in other passages. The omission of the article after את may be explained, however, from the fact that the souls had been more precisely defined just before; just as, for example, in 1 Samuel 24:6; 2 Samuel 18:18, where the more precise definition follows immediately afterwards (cf. Ewald, 277a, p. 683). - The same thing is said in Ezekiel 13:21, with regard to the caps, as has already been said of the coverings in Ezekiel 13:20. God will tear these in pieces also, to deliver His people from the power of the lying prophetesses. In what way God will do this is explained in Ezekiel 13:22 and Ezekiel 13:23, namely, not only by putting their lying prophecies to shame through His judgment, but by putting an end to soothsaying altogether, and exterminating the false prophetesses by making them an object of ridicule and shame. The reason for this threat is given in Ezekiel 13:22, where a further description is given of the disgraceful conduct of these persons; and here the disgracefulness of their conduct is exhibited in literal terms and without any figure. They do harm to the righteous and good, and strengthen the hands of the wicked. הכאות, Hiphil of כּאה, in Syriac, to use harshly or depress; so here in the Hiphil, connected with לב, to afflict the heart. שׁקר is used adverbially: with lying, or in a lying manner; namely, by predicting misfortune and divine punishments, with which they threatened the godly, who would not acquiesce in their conduct; whereas, on the contrary, they predicted prosperity and peace to the ungodly, who were willing to be ensnared by them, and thus strengthened them in their evil ways. For this God would put them to shame through His judgments, which would make their deceptions manifest, and their soothsaying loathsome.

[cool_shades]

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That is all.....

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where is rapture in the bible? it's not it's divination , a deceit of satan to lead people to fall away not fly away.


what verse is the rapture? not the gathering but this secret fly away for secret people ? how does it happen? think satan will fly people away on brooms or magic carpets? lol anyway still waiting on the verses.

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where is rapture in the bible?
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run out of lies yet?


where is rapture in the bible?

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the devil makes a big case and uses big pretty words to fool people into hell

he uses false doctrines and other teacher besides Christ

look at the fruit

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BELIEVE CHRIST NOT FALSE TEACHERS
FLY AWAY= FALL AWAY

CHRIST SAYS HE COMES AFTER TRIBULATION AND antiCHRIST , the coming disguised antiChrist would be glad to fly you around to make you receive the mark of belief in your forehead/mind and to do his work mark in the hand. DON'T BE FOOLED INTO BELIEVING FALSE DOCTRINES WHICH WILL LEAD TO THE WORSHIP OF SATAN.

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A Secret Return of Christ?

these fly aways are selling satan's mark 2 for a dollar


eze 13 God calls this doctrine fake divinations


Matt 24 Christ says HE returns AFTER satan rides in and flys a few people around AFTER the tribulation...how does this chapter bust the false rapture doctrine READ IT!!!!!!!

satan comes disguised as Christ don't accept this first false Christ, do not accept the mark of satan by believing him to be Christ


first satan tries to confuse you, then he'll use verses that talks about the gathering together of the people at the same time the tares are gathered together HOW DOES THIS FIT INTO his LIE? it's the great set up DO NOT TAKE THE MARK OF satan BY BELIEVING FALSE DOCTRINE


satan says hey you won't have to go through the tribulation you'll have peace and there won't be peace see EZE 13 Christ says HE comes after satan, after the tribulation so see ..the more satan tries to argue his lie the more people can see his lie if they are of GOD. satan's children can't see the lie till to late then they'll say oh didn't we do this and that Lord and HOW SAD HE SAYS DEPART FROM ME I NEVER KNEW THEE!!! don't fly with the tares, stay with the wheat.

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