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Author Topic: Rapture--A Dangerous DECEPTION
Ezekiel 13:20
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In his new book,Rapture a Dangerous DECEPTION.
Ret.Marine Corps Col. H. Speed Wilson exposes the origion of the False Doctrine of pre-tib rapture.
This is an excelent book for those Christians who have been beguiled by False teachers who teach the foolishness of pre-trib rapture.

ISBN# 978-1-60791-454-9
Don't be deceived by FALSE TEACHERS of the easy out,bail out doctrine!

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Betty Louise
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[BooHoo] not listening. [rapture]
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Betty Louise
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to say that every Christian has to go through the tribulation, is saying that God must bring back every person who died peacefully so they can go through the tribulation. WRONG.

The tribulation is not about God punishing the Church. It is about God punishing those who take the mark of the beast and getting Israel's attention.

You are the one teaching false Gospel.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Eduardo Grequi
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Rapture exist! You go Betty! Thessalonians teaches a meeting in the air! The meeting in the air is not ths second coming. The second coming is when Jesus actually places His foot physically on earth in Israel.
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Carol Swenson
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Right on!
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Ezekiel 13:20
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And what does "air" mean in the Greek?
Certainly not atmosphere!

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Carol Swenson
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1 Thessalonians 4:17 (King James Version)

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
 - [rapture]  -

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Betty Louise:
[BooHoo] not listening. [rapture]
betty

Your to funny and If I may add.

LaLAlala la la la la!

Sign, Viper Bill.


[happyhappy]

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That is all.....

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Ezekiel 13:20
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Hewbrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a CLOUD of witnesses,let us lay aside every weight,and the sin which doth so easily beset us,and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.

Same as CLOUD as in IThessalonians ch.4:17
A large gathering.
Such as a cloud of locust,etc. NOT A RAIN CLOUD.

Air-Spirit body,not atmosphere.

Study and shew thyself approved. Too many people get confused by would be preachers who don't know what they are talking about!

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Ezekiel 13:20:
And what does "air" mean in the Greek?
Certainly not atmosphere!

Forget the Greeks."air" mean absence of a vacuum,

So its not outer or inner space that we shall be Harpazoed in.

Sign, Viper Bill.

[cool_shades]

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That is all.....

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Ezekiel 13:20
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Wasn't the New Testament originally written in Greek? Air does not mean atmosphere,my friend.

And as for harpazo:

John 10:12...and the wolf CATCHES (harpazo) the sheep and scatters them.

Matthew 13:19...then the wicked one comes....and CATCHES AWAY(harpazo)that(the word)which was sown in his heart.

Don't let satan HARPAZO you,with his pre-trib rapture doctrine!

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Ezekiel 13:20:
Wasn't the New Testament originally written in Greek? Air does not mean atmosphere,my friend.

And as for harpazo:

John 10:12...and the wolf CATCHES (harpazo) the sheep and scatters them.

Matthew 13:19...then the wicked one comes....and CATCHES AWAY(harpazo)that(the word)which was sown in his heart.

Don't let satan HARPAZO you,with his pre-trib rapture doctrine!

LOL you forgot the beinging of the statement, my silly friend.

12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not,

And it is clear to all that you are the hireling.

......AND

You forgot,

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not.

It is clear to all you lack Spiritual understanding.


Please stop your sillyness.

Sign, Viper Bill.


[rapture]

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That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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Used ONLY in Hebrews 12:1

since we have G2192 so G5118 great G5118 a cloud G3509 of witnesses G3144 surrounding G4029 us

G3509

νέφος

nephos

Thayer Definition:

1) a cloud, a large dense multitude, a throng

1a) used to denote a great shapeless collection of vapour obscuring the heavens as opposed to a particular and definite masses of vapour with some form or shape

1b) a cloud in the sky

Part of Speech: noun neuter

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Ezekiel 13:20
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Revelation 1:7
Behold,He cometh with CLOUDS;and every eye shall shall see Him,and they also which pierced Him:and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him.Even so,Amen

Are these rain CLOUDS also?

Better get your CLOUDS straight,or you'll wind up with the rapture CLOWNS!

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Betty Louise
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Everyone WILL NOT see Jesus during the rapture, BUT EVERYONE WILL SEE Jesus during the Second Coming.
Get your facts straight. There are two events. One is the rapture for the Church. The second is the Second Coming for judgment. The tribulation is not about judgment against the Church and that is why God will remove the Church before the tribulation. The rapture, the Church will meet Jesus in the clouds and the Second Coming Jesus will step down on earth with His feet.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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WildB
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Ezekiel 13:20 = The Hireling Shepherd

 -

Do not be fooled my baseball fans. Just another later-day weed seeder.


[cool_shades]

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That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by Ezekiel 13:20:
Revelation 1:7
Behold,He cometh with CLOUDS;and every eye shall shall see Him,and they also which pierced Him:and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him.Even so,Amen

Are these rain CLOUDS also?

Better get your CLOUDS straight,or you'll wind up with the rapture CLOWNS!

Nope. These are G3507 clouds. [wiggle7]

The verse from Hebrews 12:1 is Strong's Number G3509 which occurs 1 time in 1 verse in the Greek concordance of the NASB.

Strong's Number G3507 occurs 25 times in 21 verses in the Greek concordance of the NASB.


G3507

νεφέλη

nephelē

Thayer Definition:

1) a cloud

1a) used of the cloud which led the Israelites in the wilderness

Part of Speech: noun feminine

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G3509
_________________________________________________

Here are some of the concordance verses for G3507


While he846 was still2089 speaking2980, a bright5460 cloud3507 overshadowed1982 them1438, and2532 behold2400, a voice5456 out of1537 the cloud3507 said3004, "This3778 is1510 My1473 beloved27 Son5207, with1722 whom3739 I am well-pleased2106; listen191 to Him846!"

Mat 24:30 "And2532 then5119 the sign4592 of the Son5207 of Man444 will appear5316 in1722 the sky3772, and2532 then5119 all3956 the tribes5443 of the earth1093 will mourn2875, and2532 they will see3708 the SON5207 OF MAN444 COMING2064 ON109 THE CLOUDS3507 OF THE SKY3772 with3326 power1411 and2532 great4183 glory1391.

Luk 12:54 And1161 He was30040 also2532 saying3004 to the crowds3793, "When3752 you see3708 a cloud3507 rising393 in1909 the west1424, immediately2112 you say3004, 'A shower3655 is coming2064,' and2532 so3779 it turns out1096.

Act 1:9 And2532 after He had said3004 these things3778, He was lifted up1869 while they846 were looking on991, and2532 a cloud3507 received5274 Him846 out of575 their846 sight3788.

1Cr 10:1 For I do not want2309 you to be unaware50, brethren80, that our fathers3962 were all3956 under5259 the cloud3507 and all3956 passed1330 through1330 the sea2281;

1Cr 10:2 and all3956 were baptized907 into Moses3475 in the cloud3507 and in the sea2281;

1Th 4:17 Then1899 we1473 who are alive2198 and remain4035 will be caught up726 together260 with4862 them846 in1722 the clouds3507 to1519 meet529 the Lord2962 in1519 the air109, and2532 so3779 we shall always3842 be1510 with4862 the Lord2962.

Rev 1:7 BEHOLD2400, HE IS COMING2064 WITH3326 THE CLOUDS3507, and2532 every3956 eye3788 will see3708 Him846, even2532 those who3748 pierced1574 Him846; and2532 all3956 the tribes5443 of the earth1093 will mourn2875 over1909 Him846. So it is to be281. Amen281.

Rev 11:12 And2532 they heard191 a loud3173 voice5456 from1537 heaven3772 saying3004 to them846, "Come up305 here5602." Then2532 they went up305 into1519 heaven3772 in1722 the cloud3507, and2532 their846 enemies2190 watched2334 them846.

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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by Ezekiel 13:20:
Better get your CLOUDS straight,or you'll wind up with the rapture CLOWNS!

You are getting very close to getting banned from this message board!

David

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BurgerGirl
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 (King James Version)

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [rapture]

I've read my bible from cover to cover and I have to say I agree with Carol.
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Ezekiel 13:20
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I Thessalonians 4:17 Is not proff of a Pre-trib Bail out.
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Betty Louise
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you are just too blind to see it. Again the tribulation is not about the Church. The tribulation will not occur until the Church Age ends. I am sorry that you have been influenced by false teachers, but we are not interested in false teaching. We know the truth.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Betty Louise
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Burger Girl,

Don't think I have met you. Welcome to the board.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Carol Swenson
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Hi Burger Girl. Welcome back. [Smile]

quote:
Originally posted by Ezekiel 13:20:
And what does "air" mean in the Greek?
Certainly not atmosphere!

Actually, it DOES mean atmosphere.

ThenG1899 we who are aliveG2198 and remainG4035 will be caughtG726 up togetherG260 with them in the cloudsG3507 to meetG529 the LordG2962 in the airG109, and soG3779 we shall alwaysG3842 be with the LordG2962

G109

ἀήρ

aēr

Thayer Definition:

1) the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air

2) the atmospheric region

Part of Speech: noun masculine

quote:
Study and shew thyself approved. Too many people get confused by would be preachers who don't know what they are talking about!
Take your own advice Eze.
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Ezekiel 13:20
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I do take my own advice.

That's why I have studied the Scriptures and origin of the modern day bail out doctrine.
I knew I was having my ears tickled when I first heard the easy out doctrine.
At first I tried to believe it. Even went to school and gave them the answers they wanted and got certificates and diplomas saying I knew all about the "Bail Out" pre-trib rapture.
It still didn't line up with Scripture or Church history.
Investigate it for your self,or be swept away in satan's flood of pre-trib LIE'S.
God will reveal the TRUTH to those who want to know.

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Carol Swenson
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Oooh. Big talker. Show us some proof. With all that education you should at least know that air means air.
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BurgerGirl
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quote:
Originally posted by Betty Louise:
Burger Girl,

Don't think I have met you. Welcome to the board.
betty

Likewise... *smiles*
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Ezekiel 13:20:
I do take my own advice.

That's why I have studied the Scriptures and origin of the modern day bail out doctrine.
I knew I was having my ears tickled when I first heard the easy out doctrine.
At first I tried to believe it. Even went to school and gave them the answers they wanted and got certificates and diplomas saying I knew all about the "Bail Out" pre-trib rapture.
It still didn't line up with Scripture or Church history.
Investigate it for your self,or be swept away in satan's flood of pre-trib LIE'S.
God will reveal the TRUTH to those who want to know.

Ezekiel 13:20 = The Hireling Shepherd

 -

Do not be fooled my baseball fans. Just another later-day weed seeder.


[cool_shades]

--------------------
That is all.....

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BurgerGirl
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Rapture or not...
In Hebrews 13:5 it says that God will never leave us, forsake us or leave us helpless in any way. He will never let us down or relax his hold on us. It's a promise to all believers. Therefore, I find it impossible to believe that during tribulation he would leave his own children to suffer through what he already has for us.

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WildB
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and William wept.

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That is all.....

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Ezekiel 13:20
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God's Word,and Church History do not support the any moment outa here doctrine of pre-trib rapture.
All one has to do is investigate.

Christ shall return exactly as He said He would,not as the FALSE TEACHERS of pre-trib say!

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Carol Swenson
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Oh yes, He will return exactly as He said He would at the end of the Tribulation, and we will be with Him!
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Ezekiel 13:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Oh yes, He will return exactly as He said He would at the end of the Tribulation, and we will be with Him!

Those who have passed on before the Second Coming will be with Him,those of us who are still alive will be changed instantly.

I Thessalonians 4:13-18 Has nothing to do with a pre-trib bail out. Try,reading it with understanding. Not with the preconceived modern day notion of pre-trib rapture.

Does it say,those who were raptured return with Christ,or does it say those who have passed on before return with Christ?
Those who are still alive and HERE will be caught up to meet Him.
Ain't nobody going nowhere,untill after the tribulation.
The FIRST RESURRECTION does not happen untill the SECOND COMING of OUR LORD and SAVIOUR,JESUS CHRIST. Read Revelation ch.20.

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Carol Swenson
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1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 certainly makes no mention of surviving the Tribulation. In fact the two verses before state:

1 Thessalonians 4:11 - 12 (NASB)
and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you, so that you will behave properly toward outsiders and not be in any need.

Oh, but I forgot. You think the Tribulation will be a time of peace and prosperity.

Is His Second Coming followed by the Millennial Kingdom?

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Yes,His Second Coming will be followed by His 1000 year Millenial Reign here on this earth.

Revelation 5:10

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Ezekiel 13:20
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
[QB]

Oh, but I forgot. You think the Tribulation will be a time of peace and prosperity.

Perhaps,you should read Daniel ch.8:23-27

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Yes,His Second Coming will be followed by His 1000 year Millenial Reign here on this earth.

Revelation 5:10

If every believer alive is raptured at His Second Coming, then who will live in the Millennial Kingdom? You said before that raptured people have only spirit bodies.

quote:
THE SECRET RAPTURE - IS IT SCRIPTURAL? (Page 3)

Ezekiel 13:20
posted January 26, 2011 11:35
________________________________________
The deception is in the fact that most people have been taught that "air" is the atmosphere,when in all reality we meet the Lord in our spirit bodies (air).


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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by Ezekiel 13:20:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
[QB]

Oh, but I forgot. You think the Tribulation will be a time of peace and prosperity.

Perhaps,you should read Daniel ch.8:23-27

Daniel 8:23 - 25 (NLT)
23“At the end of their rule, when their sin is at its height, a fierce king, a master of intrigue, will rise to power. 24He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause a shocking amount of destruction and succeed in everything he does. He will destroy powerful leaders and devastate the holy people. 25He will be a master of deception and will become arrogant; he will destroy many without warning. He will even take on the Prince of princes in battle, but he will be broken, though not by human power.

Let me guess. In verse 25 "destroy many without warning" is translated in the KJV as "and by peace shall destroy many".

So you think the Tribulation will be a time of peace even though the entire passage is about how destructive Antiochus Epiphanes, as a type of Antichrist, is.

quote:
THE SECRET RAPTURE - IS IT SCRIPTURAL? (Page 4

Ezekiel 13:20
posted February 18, 2011 19:19
-------------------------------------------------

Anti-christ comes in Peacefully and Prosperously saying he is God.
The death he causes is spititual death.
The death spoken of in Revelation for the most part is spiritual death. Satan is spiritual death,he ain't to concerned with killing someone physically.
Anti-christ pretends to be Christ. A better name for anti-christ would be Facsimile-christ.
Those who have watched the death and destrution movies,will be in for quite a surprise when anti-christ does appear,they will think he is Jesus here to rapture them away.


What would a man give in exchange for his soul?



Time for parallel translations again:

NRSV:
25By his cunning

he shall make deceit prosper under his hand,

and in his own mind he shall be great.

Without warning he shall destroy many

and shall even rise up against the Prince of princes.

But he shall be broken, and not by human hands.

NCV:
25This king will succeed by using lies and force. He will think that he is very important. He will destroy many people without warning; he will try to fight even the Prince of princes! But that cruel king will be destroyed, and not by human power.

KJV:
25And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

ESV:
25By his cunning he shall make deceit prosper under his hand, and in his own mind he shall become great. Without warning he shall destroy many. And he shall even rise up against the Prince of princes, and he shall be broken—but by no human hand.

RSV:
25By his cunning he shall make deceit prosper under his hand, and in his own mind he shall magnify himself. Without warning he shall destroy many; and he shall even rise up against the Prince of princes; but, by no human hand, he shall be broken.

NASB:
25“And through his shrewdness

He will cause deceit to succeed by his influence;

And he will magnify himself in his heart,

And he will destroy many while they are at ease.

He will even oppose the Prince of princes,

But he will be broken without human agency.

ICB:
25This king will use his wisdom to make lies successful. He will think that he is very important. He will destroy many people without warning. He will try to fight even God, the Prince of princes! But that cruel king will be destroyed. And it will not be human power that destroys him.

NLT:
25He will be a master of deception and will become arrogant; he will destroy many without warning. He will even take on the Prince of princes in battle, but he will be broken, though not by human power.

CEV:
25His deceitful lies will make him so successful, that he will think he is really great. Suddenly he will kill many people, and he will even attack God, the Supreme Ruler. But God will crush him!

TEV:
25Because he is cunning, he will succeed in his deceitful ways. He will be proud of himself and destroy many people without warning. He will even defy the greatest King of all, but he will be destroyed without the use of any human power.

GWT:
25He will cleverly use his power to deceive others successfully. He will consider himself to be great and destroy many people when they don’t expect it. He will oppose the Commander of Commanders, but he will be defeated, though not by any human power.

These aren't all the English translations, but enough of them to prove my point. The Tribulation will not be a time of peace.

Here is an online parallel Bible you can use if you want:

http://bible.cc/genesis/1-1.htm

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Betty Louise
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Give up Carol. [hug] Some people do not want to know the truth. Some are so prideful that when they are taken in the rapture they will probably try to tell God that He did it the wrong way.
love,
mom

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Carol Swenson
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LOL [hug]

I'm not trying to change his beliefs Betty. He has the right to believe in a post-trib rapture if he wants. I just want him to learn to do careful research and quote scripture and communicate with people in a reasonable way instead of just barking at us.

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Eduardo Grequi
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I will only say this:

The book of I Thess chapter 4 defines the rapture:

(1Th 4:13) But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.

(1Th 4:14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

(1Th 4:15) For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

(1Th 4:16) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

(1Th 4:17) Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

(1Th 4:18) Therefore comfort one another with these words.


The fact of the rapture is to bring comfort. Christians who walk away and say there is no rapture are worshipping their own view. IF the rapture happens before the tribulation it is called a pre-trib rapture, if the rapture during the tribulation it is called para-trib rapture and if it doesn't happened period than what the book of Thessalonians says was a lie and if that is a lie than everything from Genesis - Revelation is a lie and the God of that collection of books can not be trusted.

As Paul has spoken if the resurrection of Jesus never took place then our faith is in vain.

Come on you guys get it together, here in this blog topic barely potraits Christian love. It appears like a bunch of opinionate parahnas devouring anyone who has different point of view.

The most important subject that should be discussed is "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH JESUS?"

Did you placed him back on the cross or are you living for him? etc....

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