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Topic: False Prophecies of Benny Hinn
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WKUHilltopper
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Member # 5472
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posted
All I can tell you is that I've never threatened people with a "Holy Ghost machine gun" or claim that the Holy Spirit is separate from God.
To answer your lengthy question of "Am I a sinner and worthy of damnation"? Yep, you betcha. Without Christ, that's the way it is.
I put my faith and hope in Christ, not man.
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
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BORN AGAIN
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brother WKUHilltopper writes regarding Benny Hinn: quote:
I don't know what he does nor do I really care. The language and comments he has used in the past has disparaged and insulted the Lord.
Are some of us 100% perfect now? How is that possible when the Lord shines in a darkened world, and “we now know in part and understand in part”?
Romans 7
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh {I serve} the law of sin.
Are any of us perfect now that we should say of Benny Hinn: he has disparaged and insulted the Lord?
I know that given the wrong circumstances, that I am quite capable of still cursing the Lord. Don’t get too close behind me on the freeway: I’m liable to step on the breaks and give you a scare to keep further way (or get mad and get even closer).
How about you, are you now 100% good, WKUHiltopper? Do you have any idea what’s it’s like to administer an vast ministry like Benny Hinn’s.
How is your ego doing these days. You’re not doing anything huge right now so your ego is pretty quiet right now, would you say, right about now?
“somebody tell me, are we wasting precious time”
Bless the LORD God of Israel; only He is the Creator of heaven and earth and His Son is coming to take over the earth; get ready, Freddie.
“there is only one kingdom, no place to hide. Come and find a place inside.”
brother WKUHilltopper, I wanted to ask you: quote:
Have you in the past {but since he and you became a Christian} disparaged and insulted the Lord, or not?
Are you already superman, or is your heart still shouting out, Lord, have mercy on me a sinner?
I am BORN AGAIN by the painful ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) of Yeshua-Jesus
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WKUHilltopper
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
So you bornagain Christians who say that Benny Hinn is a fake, can you please tell me who those people are who go up on Benny Hinn's stage in every city?
I don't know what he does nor do I really care. The language and comments he has used in the past has disparaged and insulted the Lord.
It wouldn't surprise me that there have actually been some healings. Why? Because the Lord has always commented that "YOUR FAITH has healed you" and asked "Do you believe"? You don't need a Hinn to do this. The majority of the time, whenever the Lord healed someone He told them not to tell anyone.
The entire purpose of his "ministry", in my opinion, is to market his "miracles". Or if you "invest" with a donation, you'll get money back. God will not be mocked.
I just don't trust this fellow nor ilk like him.
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
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BORN AGAIN
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So you bornagain Christians who say that Benny Hinn is a fake, can you please tell me who those people are who go up on Benny Hinn's stage in every city?
Are they actors and actresses?
Or are they local people who just answered an ad?
Or are they just local people in the convention who have decided to go up on stage and "do a little faking in front of everybody"?
Does Benny Hinn have trainers who train and coach the people who are "slated to go on stage"?
When Benny waves his hand or blows on people on stage, has it been "predetermined" who will fall down and who will remain standing?
These are simple questions, bornagain Christians who say that Benny is a fake, and I'm very excited to hear all your wonderful answers.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
"your silence is deafening"
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BORN AGAIN
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Caretaker writes quote:
Joni Erickson Tada relates how she and many other crippled were shown out the side door early, at a Kuhleman production, without healing. Their continued wheel-chair presence would have been quite an embarresment in a "healing" crusade.
Benny Hinn is a human being and a sinner saved by grace. He still has his human ego to deal with, and I would think that among the ministries that one can receive from the Holy Spirit, the ministry of working miracles is probably the most difficult and potentially damaging in terms of "exciting the ego" of the Christian whom the Holy Spirit has chosen to do this work of miracles.
It can't be easy for the bornagain Christian chosen to do it, and I certaily don't know if I, or anyone else, could do any better.
Consider for instance the Israelites themselves, the LORD showed the Israelites many miracles much more stupendous than any of Benny's stuff, prior and during and after their Exodus.
And yet, for all that, the Israelites could say, "give us a king like the other nations" and they STILL turned wholesale to Baalism instead.
So if even the Israelites failed after seeing stupendous miracles from the LORD, we should not be so quick to judge that "we could do better than they or than Benny."
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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Caretaker
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I believe he was Sis. This study suggests as much:
http://www.bcbsr.com/books/acts8a.html
Simon Magnus
Here we have what would prove to be merely a nominal conversion of this magician. For he would develop a reputation among early Christian writers as a arch-symbol of heresy. Eusebius calls him the author of all heresy. For according to post-Biblical writers, Simon went on to claim himself God.
But then what does it mean in verse 13 that he "believed"? As I have pointed out before and as I will point out in the future, in Acts Luke is writing in an historical sense speaking of external events. He was speaking of external conversion without making reference to his internal conversion. Simon saw the miracles and so was impressed and followed the crowd in believing in Christ and getting baptized. But was his faith of a quality acceptable to God for salvation? You shall know them by their fruits.
When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money and said, "Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit." He wanted to continue to play the role of magician. Rather than honoring Christ, he was obsessed with miracles. Yet the same could be said of many in the Christian community today. And there are preachers particularly among Charismatics who claim to do miraculous things but preach themselves rather than Christ.
Another example is Moses. Though it was not a characteristic of his lifestyle even Moses at one point fell into this kind of sin.
He and Aaron gathered the assembly together in front of the rock and Moses said to them, "Listen, you rebels, must we bring you water out of this rock?" Then Moses raised his arm and struck the rock twice with his staff. Water gushed out, and the community and their livestock drank. Numbers 20:10,11
Moses' error here was twofold. First he portrayed himself as a magician rather than giving glory to God. And secondly in the process struck the rock as if with a magic wand, which he had been commanded not to do. For this he died.
Peter's answer showed little patience to Simon. For he percieved the root of this request was not born of a sincere though ignorant desire to help others receive the Holy Spirit. But rather it was born of a self-serving desire to continue to play the role of magician, as his offering to pay money for such an ability revealed more clearly. If one truly believes, one will have to deal with their sins. But Simon had not come to believe in this way. What attracted him to Christianity was that it appeared to contain stronger magic than he had encounted before. Yes he did have a genuine fear of condemnation which could have eventually led him to saving faith if he repented. But history teaches us that he hadn't come to repentance, but rather became a false teacher, for which his condemnation was worse.
"If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them." 2Peter 2:20,21
Evangelism from Hell
Though miracles affirmed the message and the messenger, there is a problem if one thinks to rely on miracles to convert people. What you often end up with are nominal believers who are not convicted of their sins, but rather entertained by the miracles instead. In his parable of Lazarus and the rich man, Jesus taught that the rich man in hell suggested an evangelism program to convert his brothers by showing them a miracle. But Jesus taught that "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead." (Luke 16:31) Moses and the Prophets dealty primarily with sin. If people are not willing to deal with their sins, then even miracles may not bring them to saving faith.
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It is interesting to note that it was the power which attracted Benny Hinn to Kathryn Kuhleman's form of crusade. One can see it from the all white suit, the emotion evoking music, and his performance.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Drew, is this Simon the same Simon Magnus whom the anti Nicean Fathers credit with the spread of most of the apostasy in the first and second century church?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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SoftTouch
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God Bless You and AMEN Brother Drew! See ya when I get back ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Caretaker
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To BA:
Interesting that its taken you 4+ years to finally, grudgingly admit that MAYBE JWs teach a false Christ and MAYBE they are not born-again. MAYBE.
One wonders just how long it will take BA to be able to see the deception which the wolves in sheeps clothing are bringing?
These many years on the 711 Cafe and almost 4 years here, you have demonstrated a very low bar as to who is born again. Can you not truly ascertain the difference between lip-service and heart-faith?
With the multitude of "miracles" which Benny Hinn takes such credit for, one would imagine that there would be a multitude of physician certified verifications, as to the thousands of "healings".
Where are the before and after physician records?
Does emotion play a part of Benny's production?
Has he emulated Kathryn Kuhleman and her ministry?
Joni Erickson Tada relates how she and many other crippled were shown out the side door early, at a Kuhleman production, without healing. Their continued wheel-chair presence would have been quite an embarresment in a "healing" crusade.
Positive Confession teaches that if one denies their healing, then their lack of faith will cause them to lose their miracle. The preacher declares them healed and if the patient denies it then they lose it, so they confirm it regardless.
There was once a man named Simon who was quite impressed with miracles. It was fortunate that the Apostles were there to rebuke him.
It is too bad that in this day that there are so many like Simon who are not being rebuked.
It is too bad that there are so many BA's out there that are declaring the Simon's born-again and defending the fruit of their un-rebuked hearts as they deceive the flocks.
Acts 8:
5: Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
6: And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
7: For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
8: And there was great joy in that city.
9: But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
10: To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
11: And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
12: But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13: Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
14: Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17: Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18: And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19: Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20: But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21: Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
22: Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
23: For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
24: Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.
25: And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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BORN AGAIN
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sister SoftTouch's posted article says, "So if the miracles are not real, what then is going on?"
siter SoftTouch offers the following from the article, among other reasons: quote:
So what is one to make of all of the testimonies of miraculous occurrences? What of all those who every day are paraded on a host of shows on TBN and other networks including Hinn’s own, This Is Your Day? Several items must be considered by the discerning Christian.
Some of the healings are psychosomatic. People whose primary problems are psychosocial in nature respond positively to placebo affects such as faith healers. In fact, the entire atmosphere of the crusades is orchestrated to build to a climax at the appearance of Hinn and the healing touch. Jesus never had to set the mood in order to be able to work. These emotionally charged events can have great impact on those whose conditions are more psychological than physical.
Many are not healed at all. Having a person stand on stage and claim to be healed of cancer or other ailment doesn’t prove the healing has actually taken place. Such healings should be verified by a qualified physician using proper medical studies. These claims to healing can be the result of:
Temporary euphoria- many people are caught up in the moment. The adrenaline rush and anticipation, even the excitement of being in the presence of one considered so anointed, may be enough to provide momentary relief. This is especially true of conditions whose primary symptom is pain.
Positive Confession- what happens at these crusades cannot be separated from a theology that teaches its adherents they possess what they confess. In the belief system of many of these people, to confess that they are not yet healed would be to guarantee that they wouldn’t receive it. Many of them are simply confessing what they believe they will receive at some point.
Hero Worship- There is tremendous desire on the part of many of these participants not to embarrass the healer. They believe so much in the person that they will react as they are instructed, even when they know it is not true. Consider the story of a woman supposedly healed of blindness by Oral Roberts. When instructed by Roberts onstage, “Tell us what’s happening inside you.” She replied, “There- There was a light.” However when interviewed the next day she admitted that nothing had happened. She stated simply, “I didn’t want to disappoint him.” (11){bold by BORN AGAIN}
What struck me, sister SoftTouch, when I read your bolded subheadings, is that those bolded subheadings are exactly what my Darwinist, Christian-hating housemate Kurt says about "so-called" miracles.
That is also exactly what the unbelievers say at the Skeptics Society.
How is it, sister SoftTouch, that you as a bornagain Christian talk just like the Darwinists and The Skeptics Society when it comes to miracles?
Have you not read in your Bible that Paul said by the Holy Spirit:
1 Corinthians 12:10
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues.
1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Do you not believe your Bible, sister. If not Benny, then who in today's society is working miracles? Or did brother Paul not mean what he said by the Holy Spirit about miracles?
God bless, BORN AGAIN in the USA by the
("now listen, she will say that she did not write this, and that she only posted it" ![[Wink]](wink.gif) )
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SoftTouch
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Hinn claims that about 1,000 people are healed at each "miracle service." But as Thomas reported, "Despite all the thousands of miracles claimed by Hinn, the church seems hard pressed to come up with any that would convince a serious skeptic. ... When pressed for truly convincing miracles, [Hinn spokesperson] Susan Smith cited a woman in Orlando who was cured of blindness caused by diabetes. But she would not give the woman's name. She later admitted that the woman's vision may still be cloudy. `She still has diabetes, strangely ... [and] was just rehospitalized."
Source: http://www.discernment.org/faithhealers/benny.htm
There is no need to go into the history of Benny Hinn because he has been around what seems like forever and has been investigated enough times so that most people know quite a bit about him. An excellent resource on the history of Benny Hinn is available from Personal Freedom Outreach in a book called "The Confusing World Of Benny Hinn". Hinn has been investigated by two major secular news shows, and by some Christian news media as well.
Most recently he was investigated by Dateline NBC in a show that aired December 27, 2002. All of these shows showed evidence that Benny Hinn has been scaming people for their money with false healing claims that he cannot prove. He was asked on all these shows to provide medical proof of the miracles he and his follower claim to be experiencing, but to date not one shred of definitive evidence has been provided by the ministry. Hinn did provide evidence, but when it was investigated the claims turned out to be claims without medical justification.
Quite contrary to Hinn's claims, a number of people have died who Hinn proclaimed healed.
Source: http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/hinndatelineresponse.html
What Is Going On?
So what is one to make of all of the testimonies of miraculous occurrences? What of all those who every day are paraded on a host of shows on TBN and other networks including Hinn’s own, This Is Your Day? Several items must be considered by the discerning Christian.
Some of the healings are psychosomatic. People whose primary problems are psychosocial in nature respond positively to placebo affects such as faith healers. In fact, the entire atmosphere of the crusades is orchestrated to build to a climax at the appearance of Hinn and the healing touch. Jesus never had to set the mood in order to be able to work. These emotionally charged events can have great impact on those whose conditions are more psychological than physical.
Many are not healed at all. Having a person stand on stage and claim to be healed of cancer or other ailment doesn’t prove the healing has actually taken place. Such healings should be verified by a qualified physician using proper medical studies. These claims to healing can be the result of:
Temporary euphoria- many people are caught up in the moment. The adrenaline rush and anticipation, even the excitement of being in the presence of one considered so anointed, may be enough to provide momentary relief. This is especially true of conditions whose primary symptom is pain.
Positive Confession- what happens at these crusades cannot be separated from a theology that teaches its adherents they possess what they confess. In the belief system of many of these people, to confess that they are not yet healed would be to guarantee that they wouldn’t receive it. Many of them are simply confessing what they believe they will receive at some point.
Hero Worship- There is tremendous desire on the part of many of these participants not to embarrass the healer. They believe so much in the person that they will react as they are instructed, even when they know it is not true. Consider the story of a woman supposedly healed of blindness by Oral Roberts. When instructed by Roberts onstage, “Tell us what’s happening inside you.” She replied, “There- There was a light.” However when interviewed the next day she admitted that nothing had happened. She stated simply, “I didn’t want to disappoint him.” (11)
Some are outright fakes. James Randi, a magician, in his book, Faith Healers, documents many of the tactics used to deceive the gullible. Some are as simple as placing staffers in the audience who pretend to be healed. W.V. Grant would pull the heel of one shoe out slightly to make it appear that he was lengthening a leg. Peter Popoff received his “Words of knowledge” through a transistor in his ear through which his wife, via radio transmission, instructed him as she read from cards collected by staffers. Several faith healers have rented wheelchairs to use as props. Some have even encouraged people who walked into the crusade to sit in one of these chairs so they could be taken up to the front to get a better view. These same people were then pulled out of their wheelchairs to the amazement of the crowds. (12) The list of tricks is almost endless.
Some are natural occurrences. The fact is that many illnesses get better naturally. This is true regardless of the treatment provided and sometimes without any treatment at all. These, then, are not miraculous healings, but rather the result of the wonderful way humans have been created by an all-wise God. For instance, ninety percent of all patients with low back pain will recover in approximately six weeks regardless of whether the pain was caused by a simple strain or a herniated, degenerative or bulging disc. (13) Even cancer has been known to have spontaneous remissions. These occur among believers and unbelievers alike, people who were prayed for as well as those who weren’t, and are presently without medical explanation. (14)
Many people claim that their healing began at a crusade and then occurred gradually over time. But simply because a person got better after seeing Benny Hinn does not mean the person got better because of Benny Hinn. In logic, this is referred to as the Post Hoc Fallacy (“After this; therefore, because of this”). An example should demonstrate the problem. A balding man may realize that he didn’t begin to lose his hair until after he had children. He may surmise from this that he lost his hair because of his children and may genuinely believe that to be the case. However, it is also possible, even probable, that the man is losing his hair because of his genetic make-up and would have lost his hair even if he never had children. His children are merely incidental to his hair loss but are not the cause. In the same way, many who are “healed” at Hinn crusades are simply experiencing the natural course of the body healing itself. The visit to see Hinn was merely incidental to their recovery and not the cause of it at all. The recognition of true miracles demands tougher criteria.
Despite the lack of evidence, the possibility should be left open that some may be legitimately healed. As Justin Peters, a Southern Baptist minister from Mississippi quoted in the Los Angeles Times, says, “As much disdain as I have for Benny Hinn, the vast majority of people who see him are real Christians….When 25,000 people are praying for God to heal them, it would be surprising if God did not heal some.”
Source: http://www.forgottenword.org/fake.html
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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BORN AGAIN
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How many actors and actresses or just local people do you think answered an advance ad to come 7 days ahead of time before the This Is Your Day Benny Hinn convention starts to be trained in what to say?
And how many trainers for the actors and actresses and local people who ansered the ad does Benny Hinn have?
Does Benny Hinn hire new trainers in every city where his convention is held next, or does he have a crew of permanent trainers who travel with him as advance men and women to every new convention?
For you have to admit, that if you are going to say or imply that those people who get up on Benny's stage in the convention hall are faking it, then they must have been trained first in what to say and how to act.
So those bornagain Christians who are AGAINST Benny Hinn on this CBBS, do you think that Benny Hinn therefore must hire actors and actresses or local people to end up saying and doing what they do on stage when they "claim to be healed of this or that?"
Please answer these question for me, if you can:
Does Benny Hinn therefore have to hire actors?
And does Benny Hinn therefore have to hire trainers?
Or does Benny Hinn currently have trainers in his employ who act as his advance men who arrive in the city 3 days early to train the actors and actresses and assorted local people who just happened to see the ad in every new city where Benny Hinn will talk next about Jesus?
And don't you think it unusual that the actors and actresses and locals in every city "just-managed to see the ad?" and enough of them have come each time for training to fill the stage?"
Or do you think that when Benny Hinn arrives at the convention hall, and Benny Hinn discovers that only 1 actress and 1 local answered the ad, do you think Benny Hinn is pacing about backstage saying to his assistants, "what are we going to do now?!?!?!?!?!?"
Please explain those things to me, if you can, you bornagain Christians who think that Benny is a fake? ![[angel3]](graemlins/angel3.gif)
Bless the LORD God of Israel. I am BORN AGAIN in the USA by the of Lord God Yeshua-Jesus of Judah, of the family of David, born in Bethlehem, as Micah 5:2 said
"who are YOU fishin' fur?"
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helpforhomeschoolers
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I agree with you, but that was not always so clear to me. It really is amazing how deceptive deception can be. That sounds sort of silly, but I look at him today and I see something very different than what we saw in those days. It is hard for me to imagine, that in those days I was so blind. I really feel that God allowed us to walk that path, and then brought us to the truth, that we would know and see first hand what it is to be blind and deceived.
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WKUHilltopper
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helpforhomeschoolers, interesting comments. By the way, I believe in the laying of hands. But I also think in Hinn's case, he's a heretic based on the things I've heard him say. Actually he sickens me and the false hope he gives people.
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
This last paragraph you write above seems to be where you are coming from. You seems to have a very dogmatic doctrine about this area of What scripture says about Christ's sacrifice and seem to be fixated on a magical moment in time WHEN JESUS SPIRIT ASCENDED BACK TO THE HANDS OF THE FATHER.
That's OK with me personally, but I see Christ's sacrifice as being effective as soon as Christ said; "IT IS FINISHED".
Actually, that is what I believe also about "it is finished" I empasized where his SPirit went because KC and these others claim it went to be killed in hell. But yes I agree with you that it was when he said "it is finished." that was the moment of death I believe. It has always facinated me that this phrase is only used one other time in scripture:
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
It seems to me that this statement by our Lord, was his own calling forth death. The scripture says that no one took his life but he gave it; and I find here a powerful picture in my mnd of him doing just that, totally in authority and power even on the cross... the word of God declaring " It is finished." Then and only then upon the power of HIS word, could death come forth!
quote:
I see that Hinn, Copeland, and Meyers, Olstein all teach this basic fact, they may not agree with you that ascending to the Father is the key element, but they agree it's an element.
No, perhaps I made this more clear above. The key element to me is not the ascending of HIS spirit. The key element is that it was a mortal body sacrifice that was required. Death of HIS Spirit was not needed; nor was it possible, as HE was God manifest in the flesh. I know that you do not perhaps still get my trouble with this teaching, but when we claim that Jesus died spiritually, what we are doing is denying that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. God is a Spirit, who manifest himself in the flesh and the flesh died... God who is a Spirit... and was the Spirit of life in Jesus did not die. Jesus died in the flesh and rose in the flesh so that we who were dead in the spirit, can be born again of Spirit and die in the flesh and be raised in spiritual bodies.
The need to make Jesus die in the spirit; denies Scripture, and it denies the sufficiency of the scrifice that was finished on the cross. This leads to an whole host of other incorrect doctrines regarding Christ and the life.
quote:
They are not teaching a different Christ.
Yes, in my opinion they are. They are teaching a Christ that was not God, though they say that they are not. This heresy of the spiritual death of Jesus is one that denies the divinity of Christ and the sufficiency of his BODILY Sacrifice. I can respect that you may still disagree, but I would just ask that you think about it thouroughly and what all the implications might be.
quote:
Mormons teach a different Christ. Muslims teach a different Christ. JW teach a different Christ.
New Age teaches a different Christ. The Jesus Papers teach a different Christ, The Divinci Code teaches a Different Christ, The Judas book teaches a Dfferent Christ, and don't be fooled by these last ones. Even though these heresies come from outside the "church", they are affecting the impact of the Church in the world.
They also can affect those who are already in the church. They can cause doubt, and a turning away from the Gospel.[QUOTE] I agree and I believe that they should also be exposed for what they are to the church and the world; but only Mormonism & JW are the result of men who were at one time in the body and were false prophets, and were ones spoken of in the scriptures.
[QUOTE]Copeland, Meyers, and Hinn all preach of a Christ who is greater and more powerful than your doctrine will allow. (I don't know how to state it any other way)
I respect you believe this and though I would like it not to be so; I am sure that it is a result of my lack of ability to adequately communicate. I guess that we will have to agree to disagree and let the Spirit teach what HE wills to whom HE wills.
I do believe they may desire to do this, but I do not believe that God needs man to embelish HIS story of Christ to make HIM powerful. And I believe that in man' attempt to do that he has denied the real power of Christ and God.
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Since you believe that John the Baptist was the last Prophet, you are not able to accept any more prophets, so you have closed yourself off from the Living God and Jesus Christ who is the same today, yesterday, and forever.
I feared that you or someone would take this in a way that is not what I believe. I do not believe that there is more prophecy coming forth from God of what God is doing in the plan of salvation or the judgments that are to come.... God's plan for man is finished and we await the fullness of its manifestation. I do believe that through the gift of Prophesy, the Spirit of God is bringing continually understanding to man what is already there.
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Yes Jesus gives the gift of prophecy, but Paul also states very clearly, that in the Church offices, that God gave us first apostles, then Prophets, then teachers, then workers of mircles, speaking in tongues, etc. (my paraphase)
Other countries see miracles because those people were not indoctrinated with lies like "God doesn't do mircles any more, and they are no more prophets, and that tongues have ceased, etc."
I do not beieve in cessation. I agree with you here. I do not believe that gifts or miracles have ceased or ceased with the Apostles. I have gifts; my husband has gifts.
I do also believe that God meets with us personally and is involved in the daily events of or lives and through his still small voice and through prayer, and through dreams and visions gives us guidance, and wisdom and discernment and even warning for our own life and also for the ministry to the body.
God has awakened me out of a dead sleep to pray for a friend and no idea what or how to pray, just pray in the spirit pray... only to find the next day that at that very minute she had been facing a potentially life changing temptation and trial.
God gives me visions and even sometimes crystal clear pictures sometimes of things I dont want, but need to see. I dont talk about this much because people who dont believe think you are nuts and would not want to cause any to stumble, but my family knows and heeds when mom says "dont go there" "dont do that not now," "I dont know why just dont," "take a different route or wait and go tomorrow."
Lots of words of caution. Sometimes so simple or trivial you might be tempted to ignore them...or worse not give God the credit for warning you. Dont take the bug take the van..(Hal takes the bug locally and a brand new tire blows - I would have been on the road at 75mph) Dont throw that away... but God it is a 2 year old receipt... dont throw that away. Two days later... Hal: Where is that receipt for... Me: ughhh I threw it away!
God has warned me and prepared me for coming trouble on more than a few occsions days before bad news came in the mail or something tragic happened in the life of one of my children or a friend or family member. God often calls me to pray or wakes me in the night and sends me to the scriptures for word that I will need in the near future for someone whose path will cross mine. God is alive and concerned and active in the details of our lives! Those are all prophetic gifts, but never will God give me something in word, or prayer, dream or vision that will contradict what is written in the scripture.. if that happens it is not from GOD. My daughter tried to tell me that God told her it was ok to be involved with this man that she was involved with and married. She was furious with me because I insisted that God did not tell her that. Who am I to know what God speaks to her! Well that was simple God does not contradict his word and God did not tell you or send you into a reationship where you are unequally yoked! I dont know who or what you heard from, most likely your own flesh, but it was not God.
Do you see what I mean?
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Americans rely on science, yes even the Christians.
I agree and it drives me nuts.
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We look for any reason for why Hinn's ministry can not be real. WE look at it, with the mind of science or reason.
Some may but this is not the case here or my problem with him; in fact; I shared here that it was very hard for us to come to see Hinn as an apostate and a false prophet particularly for my husband. I have not shared why. I will now. My husband has been used of God to lay on hands for God to bring forth physical healing. My husband is not comfortable with this gift. He fears his own flesh thinking that it is ever him that does anything, and he fears that he would see a need and want to help, but it be of his will to help and not God's and thus help not come and God be misrepresented. There are many other issues, but it is fearsome thing to have God use you in this way. And yet God has in at least 2 occasions that come to mind that are undeniable used him in this way. We have also been blessed to see ourselves healing miricles and to be in a church where miracles have occured and where others in our church have seen first hand Acts type miracles on mission trips. So the first time we saw Benny Hinn, my husband was glued to the TV.... it was comforting to him. He felt like he was not a freak for the first time I think since God showed him this gift and put him in a place to minister it. We wanted to believe that Benny Hinn was for real; but that was not God's will for us. God will was for us to see the truth, and in the beginning, we ignored the truth and we continued to watch, and to support his ministry financailly, and I read his book...what is it? Come Holy Spirit? No ....Welcome Holy Spirit, I believe that is it. Anyway, eventually we would heed what we believe the Spirit was showing us and that was away from Hinn.
Today, I am somewhat embarrassed to admit that we were so taken in by many in the TBN crowd. But we were. It served its purpose... that time in our lives, I believe that God had reason for allowing us to go there and to hear and to see what was going on first hand, as followeres and even contributors, that we could speak not based on hearsay, but on truth but, I am thankful God did not leave us there. Our walk and our relationship with HIM is so much more full, faithful, soild, grounded and rooted in HIM, now that it is grounded and rooted in scripture and we have come to rely on HIM alone.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I totally agree with White Eagle in her comment above on that very subject.
quote:
By White Eagle: I'm a former "square it with scripture" and "rightly divding the word of truth" person who finally realized that God is much bigger than my little ideas of Him.
Yes Amen!
BUT, even so, I believe that as big as HE is and HE is so big that we cannot even begin to comprehend how big... He will do nothing that he does not first reveal through his servants the prophets. John the baptist was the last Prophet.
Today the church is given the gift of prophesy for ministry and edification and we are given the Holy Spirit to teach us all things, even the things that Jesus could not yet reveal to the Apostles, but none of those things prophesied and none of those revealed will ever contradict the written word which we have also been given. Everything that God will ever reveal to us through the Spirit is already said in the scripture, but it is hidden from the enemy and there preserved for the saints. There will never be another EVE, today those who are beguiled are beguiled because they have chosen to be ignorant.
But while I agree with all of the above, I do not agree that the denominational differences were created by dividing the word rightly or wrongly so much as they were by taking the little piece of truth that each on had and them running off the build whole doctrines to support their thoughts and deal with the things they did not understand instead of looking for the place where the scripture is in harmony NT and Old, for all God's people those who were the natural seed and those of us who are by adoption, and consequently man is in error. And that man's error was a huge thing. How many places were denominational divide occurs today are directly related to the things of Romansim that that were not supported in scripture but were clung to because of tradition or superstition?
I also dont agree that the issues with Copeland and Hinn is a problem of rightly or wrongly dividing the word.
To me, it seems you can wrongly divide the word and fail to understand the position of the church or the subject of eschatology as it applies to the various peoples of the earth; you can wrongly divide the word and live this life with out realizing all that is yours by the blood and what is not yours by the blood. But even wrongly dividing the word, you should still come up with a clear picture of who Christ is and what he is not. Wrongly dividing the word may cause confusion about who you are, but even wrongly dividing the word, there should be no question of who Christ is.
I see the issues with Copeland's and with Hinn's teachings are issues that are out of lack of understanding who Christ is and thus also what HIS sacrifice did the very moment his spirit ascended back to the hands of the Father who gave it. JMHO
This last paragraph you write above seems to be where you are coming from. You seems to have a very dogmatic doctrine about this area of What scripture says about Christ's sacrifice and seem to be fixated on a magical moment in time WHEN JESUS SPIRIT ASCENDED BACK TO THE HANDS OF THE FATHER.
That's OK with me personally, but I see Christ's sacrifice as being effective as soon as Christ said; "IT IS FINISHED".
I don't want to rehash the "did Jesus go down to Hades beofre He ascended thing"? Scripture says He did. Paul says He descended, then ascended.
Jesus now does sit at the right hand of the Father after He ascended.
I see that Hinn, Copeland, and Meyers, Olstein all teach this basic fact, they may not agree with you that ascending to the Father is the key element, but they agree it's an element.
They are not teaching a different Christ. Mormons teach a different Christ. Muslims teach a different Christ. JW teach a different Christ.
New Age teaches a different Christ. The Jesus Papers teach a different Christ, The Divinci Code teaches a Different Christ, The Judas book teaches a Dfferent Christ, and don't be fooled by these last ones. Even though these heresies come from outside the "church", they are affecting the impact of the Church in the world.
They also can affect those who are already in the church. They can cause doubt, and a turning away from the Gospel.
Copeland, Meyers, and Hinn all preach of a Christ who is greater and more powerful than your doctrine will allow. (I don't know how to state it any other way)
Since you believe that John the Baptist was the last Prophet, you are not able to accept any more prophets, so you have closed yourself off from the Living God and Jesus Christ who is the same today, yesterday, and forever.
Yes Jesus gives the gift of prophecy, but Paul also states very clearly, that in the Church offices, that God gave us first apostles, then Prophets, then teachers, then workers of mircles, speaking in tongues, etc. (my paraphase)
Other countries see miracles because those people were not indoctrinated with lies like "God doesn't do mircles any more, and they are no more prophets, and that tongues have ceased, etc."
Americans rely on science, yes even the Christians.
We look for any reason for why Hinn's ministry can not be real. WE look at it, with the mind of science or reason.
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BORN AGAIN
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Are Benny Hinn's miracles on stage not real? If so, he or his advance men and women would have to be paid a salary to hire many actors and actresses who must be coached at every venue and hopefully the actors and actresses will say what they have learned in the training rooms correctly on stage? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
His actors and actresses budget and his trainers' budget must be huge! And it's going so well!!!
1 Corinthians 12:10
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1 Corinthians 12:29
Are all apostles?
Are all prophets?
Are all teachers?
Are all workers of miracles?
The answer to these last 4 questions is? No. Only some are made workers of miracles by the Holy Spirit:
1 Corinthians 12
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles...
Don't underestimate the power of God, even if Benny Hinn's ego gets involved since Benny is a saved sinner.
But let me give you a hint: Benny Hinn does not have an actors' and actresses' budget and Benny Hinn has no trainers who tell actors and actresses what to say on stage, and no training rooms. These are real miracles, whether you like it or not.
God bless, BORN AGAIN in the USA
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helpforhomeschoolers
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ha ha well my brain thought of at least 5 funny things I could say about that if I didnt think we were so close! Too close to joke! But in reality, I dont think that he has enough political clout. That's at least a safe comment ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) ![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif) ![[rapture]](graemlins/rapture.gif)
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ToBeContinued
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And, for the record -
I went on record before with this but just in case anyone is interested : )
I know it is obvious that I have "stuck up" for Joel Osteen and maybe Joyce Meyers, and a few others, however, and that is a BIG however -
Benny Hinn has ALWAYS seemed to me to "off" and I agree his ways are rather strange.
I don't want to accuse of him of anything but....As some of you know, I love eschatology and rapture talks, and prophecy in general - With that in mind, I have many times wondered if Benny wouldn't make a good candidate for the AntiChrist's right hand man, the False Prophet -
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Thanks Jim, then I do agree.
I tell you I was really naive to the boxes of both Covenant Theology and Pauline Dispensationalism, when I began to seriously study the word and I am so thankful that I was.
God had been teaching me to seek HIM and HIS word not what man said His word said, he had been showing me how each of us by HIS design has part of the truth because we were designed to come together as a body with each joint supplied according to HIS will and purpose, and above all to keep seeking him when there was confusion rather than building my own doctrines to fill in the blanks (which is what I see that both Covenant Theology and strict Pauline Dispensationalism do).
As He was doing this, he also led me here and I feel so blessed that God brought me here to this board to study and be surrounded in fellowship with so many that really sought HIS truth above man's interpretation of it and who sought harmony AND contextural integirty in the scripture and understood both the natural and the spiritual.
I did not at that time realize what a rare group we all were!
Now, in the past 2 years, I have become all too familiar with these boxes and I can see them as nothing else, and all I can say is there but by the grace of God go I. I cant imagine the wealth and intimacy that I have with HIM that I would not have had if I had grown up in either of those boxes.Do you know what I mean? As the presumption by each of them that if you do not believe what one of them believe then you authomatically must believe what the other believes is unbelievable! Hello there is a middle ground! ![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif)
I totally agree with White Eagle in her comment above on that very subject.
quote:
By White Eagle: I'm a former "square it with scripture" and "rightly divding the word of truth" person who finally realized that God is much bigger than my little ideas of Him.
Yes Amen!
BUT, even so, I believe that as big as HE is and HE is so big that we cannot even begin to comprehend how big... He will do nothing that he does not first reveal through his servants the prophets. John the baptist was the last Prophet.
Today the church is given the gift of prophesy for ministry and edification and we are given the Holy Spirit to teach us all things, even the things that Jesus could not yet reveal to the Apostles, but none of those things prophesied and none of those revealed will ever contradict the written word which we have also been given. Everything that God will ever reveal to us through the Spirit is already said in the scripture, but it is hidden from the enemy and there preserved for the saints. There will never be another EVE, today those who are beguiled are beguiled because they have chosen to be ignorant.
But while I agree with all of the above, I do not agree that the denominational differences were created by dividing the word rightly or wrongly so much as they were by taking the little piece of truth that each on had and them running off the build whole doctrines to support their thoughts and deal with the things they did not understand instead of looking for the place where the scripture is in harmony NT and Old, for all God's people those who were the natural seed and those of us who are by adoption, and consequently man is in error. And that man's error was a huge thing. How many places were denominational divide occurs today are directly related to the things of Romansim that that were not supported in scripture but were clung to because of tradition or superstition?
I also dont agree that the issues with Copeland and Hinn is a problem of rightly or wrongly dividing the word.
To me, it seems you can wrongly divide the word and fail to understand the position of the church or the subject of eschatology as it applies to the various peoples of the earth; you can wrongly divide the word and live this life with out realizing all that is yours by the blood and what is not yours by the blood. But even wrongly dividing the word, you should still come up with a clear picture of who Christ is and what he is not. Wrongly dividing the word may cause confusion about who you are, but even wrongly dividing the word, there should be no question of who Christ is.
I see the issues with Copeland's and with Hinn's teachings are issues that are out of lack of understanding who Christ is and thus also what HIS sacrifice did the very moment his spirit ascended back to the hands of the Father who gave it. JMHO
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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ToBeContinued
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quote:
What is your point? ha ha as I was writing, it occurs to me I might have just made it! I will wait and see what you say, but I actually think that I may agree, but think that that is not the problem here. Now you got my brain shifting into second gear. What is the point Jim?? Tell us?
You did : )
I posted this on my BBS, and then decided to do so here to serve as a reminder -
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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Benny Hinn has said
“The Spirit tells me - Fidel Castro will die - in the 90's. Oooh my!”
Therefore Hinn is a False Prophet.
From WhiteEagle: Did Benny Hinn say the 1990's or just in the "nineties". (That is important)
Just saw a number of sites and they all had 'in the 90's' in the title.
I've got it - it gets pretty hot in Cuba. Probably it will be in the 90's when Castro dies. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Also just heard an audio clip - not sure it is even BH's voice. There wasn't much of an accent ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
LOL!
Hisgrace:
Where are the accusers?
This little exercise has been to try to challenge people to seek God and think and pray before they start dealing out judgement.
Perhaps Benny Hinn is completely false.
Don't we have something better to do than blast away at those who do try to reach others for Christ?
My point is that many people sit in traditional churches and they think they have all the truth and that they are saved. They blast anyone who preaches a little different than their own pre-conceived notions of the Bible and God and feel they are sitting pretty and will go the heaven.
Perhaps they are deceiving themselves also.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Benny Hinn has said
“The Spirit tells me - Fidel Castro will die - in the 90's. Oooh my!”
Therefore Hinn is a False Prophet.
From WhiteEagle: Did Benny Hinn say the 1990's or just in the "nineties". (That is important)
Just saw a number of sites and they all had 'in the 90's' in the title.
I've got it - it gets pretty hot in Cuba. Probably it will be in the 90's when Castro dies.
Also just heard an audio clip - not sure it is even BH's voice. There wasn't much of an accent
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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Benny Hinn has said
“The Spirit tells me - Fidel Castro will die - in the 90's. Oooh my!”
“The Lord also tells me to tell you in the mid 90's, about '94-'95, no later than that, God will destroy the homosexual community of America”
“The Spirit of God tells me an earthquake will hit the East Coast of America and destroy much in the nineties.”
Did I miss something? Were these things fulfulled? No... they were not.
Therefore Hinn is a False Prophet.
Did Benny Hinn say the 1990's or just in the "nineties". (That is important) BTW there is a huge fault line that scientists have discovered in the Eastern US, that could set off a huge series of earthquakes that would make the San Andreas fault look tame.
Many homosexuals died from the AIDS epidemic in the 1990's. Many homosexual communities were destroyed. GOD IS MORE MERCIFUL THAN WE ARE.
As to Fidel Castro, I guess he's not dead, but do we REALLY KNOW? Saddam Hussan used to have several look alikes so he wouldn't get sniped. Maybe Castro has a look alike replacing him, so the country won't go into anarchy? WHo Knows.
But I agree, it looks like that one on Castro is entirely off target.
Why are you so quick to deal out judgement?
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WhiteEagle
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Example of a Prophet: Daniel 5:1-30
Forgive me, but I don't want to type out the whole chapter, but I'll recap the points I want to make.
The Babylonian king who is the son or grandson of Nebuchadnezzar, Is King Belshazzar. He has forgotten God Almighty and has conducted his reign without God. He's having a huge party to honor himself.
Suddenly a hand appears out of no where and writes an inscription on the wall: MENE,
MENE, TEKEL, PERES. The king doesn't know what it means, but he's terrified. He calls all the wise men, and diviners, and socerers, and no one can tell him the meaning.
Finally someone remember Daniel, who is now an old man, who had been able to help Nebuchadnezzer many years ago.
Daniel is able to decipher the words.
This is what God wrote:
God has numbered the days of your reign and brought it to an end.
You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting.
Your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.
The king died that very night and the Medes and Persians conquered his kingdom.
Now without the Prophet, Belshazzar would never have known what those strange words meant.
The Prophet Daniel preached to the king about his sins before he translated the words.
The "words" that the hand of God wrote were clear, once the prophet tranlated them to the king.
The king had to be willing to listen to Daniel and believe him.
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SoftTouch
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Benny Hinn has said
“The Spirit tells me - Fidel Castro will die - in the 90's. Oooh my!”
“The Lord also tells me to tell you in the mid 90's, about '94-'95, no later than that, God will destroy the homosexual community of America”
“The Spirit of God tells me an earthquake will hit the East Coast of America and destroy much in the nineties.”
Did I miss something? Were these things fulfulled? No... they were not.
Therefore Hinn is a False Prophet.
The Bible Says:
quote:
Deuteronomy 18: 20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Jeremiah 14:14Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
Ezekiel 13:8Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.
Matthew 24:11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mark 13: 22For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
1 John 4: 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Seems Pretty Clear To Me
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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WhiteEagle
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Hardcore:
I'm a former "square it with scripture" and "rightly divding the word of truth" person who finally realized that God is much bigger than my little ideas of Him.
When people say they are "rightly dividing the word of truth, they are often... as "tobecontinued" pointed out just dividing the truth according to their particular view or doctrine of scripture. Baptists divide it one way, Penecostals divide it another way, and Methodists divide a third way and so on and on it goes.
As far as Prophecy being clear, I truly beg to differ. DO YOU totally understand the Book of Revelation? It's not straight forward. Revelation is full of symbols, and events and doesn't give us a clear picture of the future events. (I just believe we will know them when they happen or after they happen) Prophecy is often like a riddle, it is sealed or veiled to our understanding UNLESS THE HOLY SPIRIT REVEALS IT TO US.
The Old Testament Prophecies also are very difficult to understand, and we can now see the ones that proclaimed Christ, but at the time Christ walked the earth, obviously many Jews didn't SEE THE PROPHECY UNFOLD BEFORE THEIR EYES.
I'll bet the Pharisees thought they were "rightly dividing the word of truth:", in their own minds.
I'll agree with you that Benny Hinn has made some very unwise statements in public, that perhaps he should have kept to himself. He may well be a false prophet. I don't know.
I think the misconception that many of us Christians have about the gift of Prophecy, is that we think it's the same thing as a fortune-teller. IT IS NOT. That's where we err.
If you want specific direct concrete prophecies then go to a fortune teller. Or read a horoscope.
There was a gap of over 400 years since the last Old Testament book was written to the time of Christ. Did the Jews call Daniel a false prophet? Did they call Isaiah a false teacher, or false prophet because over 400 years had gone by?
Moses was in Midian for 40 years before he went back to Egypt, and the Jews took 40 years to get into the Promise Land. WE know many of them complained all the way there and called God's prophet a liar. And we know the generation that complained did not get to enter the Promise Land.
Noah prophecied for 120 years to the people before the Flood. I'm sure he was called a false prophet.
Timing is God's, not ours, and yes even a true man of God can say the wrong thing or interpret the Word in error. (We see through the glass darkly)
Abraham tried to fulfill God's prophecy on his own with Ishmael. Do I need to go on?
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Hey Jim, I admit I did not read your post above closely, I did read it quickly and I am not sure your point. I also have no idea who you refer to. I was not aware that any of us here were mid acts dispenationalists. The only hyper dispensationalist here that I am aware of is espouranious. Most of us while not being subscribers to covenant theology are also not strict mid acts dispensationalists. Most of us have been blessed to study the Bible enough to know that neither covenant theology nor hyper Pauline dispensationalism finds harmony in the whole of scripture. The church has not replaced Israel and neither did Paul preach another Gospel than the one Jesus preached. Most of us I think seek the harmony of the whole scripture where what was written to Israel is in agreement with and not contrary to what is spoken to the church because ALL scripture is given by God and profitable for doctrine, rebuke, reproof and instruction in righteousness. So what have I missed? What is your point? ha ha as I was writing, it occurs to me I might have just made it! I will wait and see what you say, but I actually think that I may agree, but think that that is not the problem here. Now you got my brain shifting into second gear. What is the point Jim?? Tell us?
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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by ToBeContinued:
Indeed, the words "rightly dividing" have become a literal mantra among Dispensationalists.
What does this have to do with Benny Hinn and his false prophecies?
Hinn has said certain things claiming "Thus Sayeth the Lord", and they were false. Period.
It's pretty simple and straightforward.
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ToBeContinued
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Indeed, the words "rightly dividing" have become a literal mantra among Dispensationalists. This mantra is often chanted by mid-Acts and Acts 28 Dispensationalists, and even some Traditional (Acts 2) Dispensationalists, to imply that anyone who disagrees with a particular viewpoint - for whatever reason - is "wrongly dividing" the word, even if the opposing viewpoint can be supported from Scripture. Case in point - there is the true story of an Acts 2 Dispensationalist pastor and friend of one family for many, many years, until that family got on the "rightly dividing" band wagon. At a funeral for one of the family members, another pastor (who claimed to "rightly divide" the word) stated that the deceased family member had only been blessed to understand the Bible after learning to "rightly divide" according to his own Dispensational viewpoint - implying that the previous Acts 2 pastor had been teaching garbage by "wrongly dividing" the word. Never mind that both pastors were Dispensationalists (i.e., they both recognized the separation of the church and Israel), and were in total agreement concerning grace, the gospel, the Deity of Christ, the inerrancy of Scripture, the second advent, etc.
This just goes to show that it is far too easy to become judgmental when we claim to "rightly divide" the word. We may honestly believe that only those who agree with our particular viewpoint are "rightly dividing" the word, but we often come across as being arrogant when we make this claim - especially when those who hold the opposing viewpoint believe their position is also supported by Scripture.
The word translated as "rightly dividing" in 2 Timothy 2:15 is the Greek word "Orthotomeo". We will consult a couple of reference works here, in an attempt to determine what Paul meant by the term:
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, Copyright 1980 by Abingdon Press, lists the word "Orthotomeo" (# 3718 in its Greek dictionary) with the definition, "...to make a straight cut, i.e. (fig.) to dissect (expound) correctly (the divine message): - rightly divide."
Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old & New Testament Words, Published in 1997 by Thomas Nelson, Inc., Copyright 1996, lists the word under "DIVIDE, DIVIDER, DIVIDING" on page 319, with the following definition:
8. ORTHOTOMEO, lit., to cut straight (orthos, straight, temno, to cut), is found in 2 Tim. 2:15, A.V., "rightly dividing," R.V., "handling aright" (the word of truth); the meaning passed from the idea of cutting or dividing, to the more general sense of rightly dealing with a thing. What is intended here is not dividing Scripture from Scripture, but teaching Scripture accurately.
So based upon the above definitions, we can conclude that those who are teaching Scripture inaccurately, and those who are incorrectly expounding the divine message, are indeed wrongly dividing the word of truth. But again - who is to be the judge here? Do mid-Acts Dispensationalists who think Paul wrote the book of Hebrews have the right to accuse other mid-Acts Dispensationalists of "wrongly dividing"? Are they truly dissecting (expounding) "the divine message" incorrectly (Strong's definition), if they reject Paul's authorship of Hebrews? Well, maybe so. Or, does a mid-Acts Dispensationalist who observes the Lord's Supper have the right to accuse other mid-Acts Dispensationalists of "wrongly dividing", and teaching Scripture inaccurately (Vine's definition), if they choose not to observe the Lord's Supper? Again, maybe he does. If that's honestly the way these Dispensationalists understand the Scriptures, and they honestly feel that they should be adamant concerning their beliefs, they do have that right. It is the Lord that looks upon the heart.
But before accusing others of "wrongly dividing" the word, we should first realize that no two people are going to completely agree 100 percent concerning every teaching in the Bible. So if we take either of the above definitions in its strictest sense, any Christian could accuse every other Christian of "wrongly dividing" the word, every time he disagrees with even one belief - no matter how minor.
So, where do we draw the line between "rightly dividing" and "wrongly dividing"? And who are we, anyway, to accuse others of "wrongly dividing" the word? How do we avoid being so arrogant as to think that only those Christians who agree with our viewpoint are "rightly dividing" the word, when those who disagree believe their viewpoint is also supported by Scripture? Well, while realizing that two people will never agree on every teaching concerning the Bible, we still need to determine who would be guilty of "wrongly dividing" the word of truth, by either violating Vine's definition of "...teaching Scripture accurately", or by violating Strong's definition of dissecting (expounding) correctly "the divine message". Anyone who violates these definitions would certainly be guilty of "wrongly dividing" the word.
But so far, all of the above-mentioned opposing views are still valid within the framework of mid-Acts Dispensationalism, because they can all be supported with Scripture, to the extent that the Scripture being quoted is understood by the person quoting it. And therein lies the problem. Because a definition of "rightly dividing" or "wrongly dividing" is dependent upon one's understanding of Scripture, what happens if someone discovers that his understanding of Scripture is incorrect, and changes his belief? Let's say that someone believes Christians should never observe the Lord's Supper today, and accuses those who do observe it of "wrongly dividing" the word. But suppose he changes his mind, based upon further study of Scripture, and decides that Christians should observe the Lord's Supper, after all. Now, he is among those whom he previously accused of "wrongly dividing" the word. And yet, he honestly believes he is now "rightly dividing" the word, and those who do not observe the Lord's Supper are the ones "wrongly dividing" it.
The answer, in my opinion, is found in Strong's definition, "...to make a straight cut", as well as in the last sentence of Vine's definition: "...not dividing Scripture from Scripture, but teaching Scripture accurately". Herein lies the key. The identifying mark of a Dispensationalist is that he tries to "make a straight cut" (Strong's definition) between Israel and the church. A Dispensationalist knows that Scriptures which apply to Israel were not written to the church, and Scriptures which were written to the church do not apply to Israel.
And yet, one of the most common objections concerning Dispensationalism is the false accusation that we "divide Scripture from Scripture" by throwing away any Scriptures that don't apply to us - when that is not the case at all. One cannot teach Scripture accurately unless one realizes that all Scripture was written for our learning, as Paul states in Romans 15:4 -
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.
Indeed, Vine's definition of "dividing Scripture from Scripture" implies rejecting the inspiration of certain Scriptures, due to an erroneous belief that other Scriptures are "more inspired". If that is what he means, then he is correct in his condemnation of "dividing Scripture from Scripture".
And yet, one cannot teach Scripture accurately by taking Scriptures which were written to Israel and applying them to the church, or vice-versa. Just as it's wrong today to stone a man for gathering stick on the Sabbath (see Numbers 15:32-36), it is also wrong to take the Lord's instructions for Israel and apply them to the church today. So, we Dispensationalists make the "straight cut" at the point in the book of Acts when we believe the present church began. Because Acts 2 ("Traditional") Dispensationalists believe the church began in Acts chapter 2, that is where they make their "straight cut" between Scriptures which apply to Israel and Scriptures which apply to the church. But Acts 28 Dispensationalists do not believe the present church began until Acts 28 (or later), so that is where they make their "straight cut" in Scripture. And mid-Acts Dispensationalists believe the church began sometime in the mid-Acts period, so they make their own "straight cut" near the middle of Acts.
Consequently, by claiming to "rightly divide" the word of truth, most Dispensationalists are simply recognizing the distinction between those Scriptures which were written to Israel, and the Scriptures which are written to the church. They are being fully compliant with Vine's definition of "not dividing Scripture from Scripture, but teaching Scripture accurately", because they are not claiming that some Scriptures are "more inspired" than others. Rather, they are simply obeying the Scriptures that they believe were written to them, and are not trying to follow those Scriptures which were written to Israel.
It is therefore my opinion that "rightly dividing the word of truth" is a reference to the Dispensational method of Bible study - regardless of whether it is from an Acts 28, mid-Acts, or Acts 2 (Traditional) viewpoint.
As long as a firm distinction is made between Israel and the church, the Dispensationalist will be in compliance with Vine's definition of "not dividing Scripture from Scripture, but teaching Scripture accurately", as well as Strong's definition of dissecting or expounding correctly the divine message. By teaching that we should obey only those Scriptures which were written to the church, we are not implying that we should divide Scripture from Scripture, because it is all equally inspired. We simply mean that we are to rightly divide the word of truth, as Paul instructs us to do in 2 Timothy 2:15.
Please realize, I am not claiming to be the final authority on "rightly dividing the word of truth". He would never insist that only Dispensationalists are "rightly dividing" the word, when the Covenant Theologian also believes his viewpoint is supported by Scripture. "Rightly dividing the word of truth" refers to the Dispensational method of Bible study.
Paul is instructing us to "rightly divide" the Scriptures which were written to the church from those Scriptures which apply to Israel. As stated earlier, one's view of "rightly dividing" or "wrongly dividing" is dependent upon one's understanding of Scripture.
Why not adamantly state that "rightly dividing the word of truth" is a reference to Dispensational Bible study, and leave it at that? Well, it's because we are being given a truly awesome responsibility, when we are told to "rightly divide the word of truth". The vast majority of those who claim to "rightly divide" are not aware of the following distinct possibility concerning the "word of truth" they are to rightly divide:
It seems that the words "rightly dividing the word of truth" in 2 Tim. 2:15 must refer to more than just "rightly dividing" the Scriptures, because this same word of truth also "begat" the believers to whom James was writing, according to James 1:18 -
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Likewise, this "word of truth" was the gospel of the Ephesians' salvation that they heard before they trusted in Christ, according to Eph. 1:12-14 -
12: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14: Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
It should be noted that the Greek word "logos" is translated "word" in each of the above passages (be careful; Strong's has an error in its listing of one of these verses). What, then, is this word of truth, or this "logos" of truth, that we are to rightly divide, which was powerful enough to beget believers? Could this "logos" of truth be the living logos of God, that discerns the thoughts and intents of the heart? Please notice Hebrews 4:12-13 -
12: For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13: Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
How awesome! According to verse 12 above, this word (logos) of God does indeed discern the thoughts and intents of the heart! How is this possible? Well, the passage also states that this same logos of God is "quick" (alive!), and that all creatures are manifest in "his" sight. So, the word of God actually reads the thoughts and intents of those who read it!
How, then, could I ever have the audacity to adamantly claim that "rightly dividing the word of truth" can only be a reference to Dispensational Bible study, when the word of God is able to read the thoughts and intents of his own heart? Indeed, we find that there are other Christians (true believers in Christ) who totally reject Dispensationalism; and yet they also claim to be the ones who are "rightly dividing the word of truth". Some of these groups actually point to the existence of the various Dispensational "camps" (Acts 2, mid-Acts, Acts 28 ) as "proof" that Dispensationalists are confused. In fact, some actually go so far as to claim that Dispensationalists are not even Christians! Talk about audacity!
Well, maybe some of these Covenant Theologians are indeed "rightly dividing" the word, as Paul intended. If so, then Dispensational Bible study would admittedly be an erroneous approach, and there would be no distinction between Israel and the church. I must stand for what I believe. But what if these groups are wrong? Again, based upon Heb. 4:12-13 above, it is my opinion (strictly an opinion) that anyone who approaches the word of truth with a preconceived notion is going to find exactly what he is looking for. If someone believes the word of truth has errors in it, then they will be led to believe they are finding real errors. But if they approach the word of truth with the belief that it is indeed the word of truth, these apparent errors will be resolved. And if any believer - Dispensationalist, Covenant Theologian, whatever - approaches the word of truth with the idea that they are the final authority on "rightly dividing the word of truth", the living word of God will discern the thoughts and intents of their hearts...
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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted byWhiteEagle
"He who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall." "Pride goeth before a fall."
Don't be so sure you know all Truth, my friend.
While I can appreciate these sentiments given the fact that there are some here who absolutely refuse to ever admit error, I'm afraid these really don't apply to me. You could probably find other not so flattering verses that do though.
I would be very surprised if anyone who knows me would use the word prideful to describe me, and I certainly don't purport to know all truth.
I do have a brain however, as well as eyes, ears, a discerning spirit, and a bible.
I know that Benny Hinn's doctrine does not line up with the Word of God. I know that he has grossly misused "Thus Sayeth the Lord", and I know that he has been wrong many times when he has done so.
There is no excuse for a supposed discerning bible believer to defend this man. No excuse. None. Give it up. That hole you keep digging is gonna get you to China if you're not careful.
quote:
WhiteEagle:
I've heard Baptist preachers say time and time again that Jesus could return tonight, just so they can get people to the altar. So aren't they also predicting the Rapture?
To try and compare an alter call to Benny Hinn's false "Thus Sayeth the Lords" is a real stretch. An alter call is not predicting the rapture. Sorry. No. It is not the same.
quote:
WhiteEagle:
Please notice that throughout both Old and New Testaments that whenever prophecy is given, it is NOT in direct as we would call "direct" concrete terms.
Not sure I'm following you on this. Maybe the term "direct" is somewhat ambiguous here?
quote:
WhiteEagle:
I wish I could get you to open your eyes, that God sometimes will speak very specifically and directly. Sodom and Gomorrah for example.
What makes you think that I don't believe God sometimes speaks specifically and directly? I sure don't think I've ever said nor implied that I didn't.
quote:
WhiteEagle:
But most of the Old Testament prophecies are very hard to understand at face value. That's because we need the Holy Spirit to reveal Truth.
I'm not sure I'm tracking with you on this either. Can you give me an example of what you mean?
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SoftTouch
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
Benny Hinn's own words convict him.
The rabid defense of this false prophet only undermines the credibility of the defender in the realm of spiritual discernment. A deep concern arises that the defender could themselves be driven by the deceiving spirit which drives Hinn.
The Holy Spirit is God.
When Benny Hinn declares that, "this is what the Spirit is saying", he IS declaring "Thus sayeth the Lord". When what he says from the spirit is false, and does not come to pass, then he is a false prophet.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“The Spirit tells me - Fidel Castro will die - in the 90's. Oooh my! Some will try to kill him and they will not succeed. But there will come a change in his physical health, and he will not stay in power, and Cuba will be visited of God.” “Holy Spirit just said to me, It could be worse than any death you can imagine. There's some question in my spirit on what kind of death the Lord means. I'm not sure. I see him. Uh. I see Cas, I, I see Castro bent over behind bars. I don't know what that means.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
ONE WHO DECLARES "THUS SAYETH THE LORD" MUST BE 100% ACCURATE.
DEUT. 18:
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? 22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Hinn is not speaking from the Holy Spirit of God, but from a false spirit of deception.
Those foolish who blindly defend this false prophet are not only deceived but are actively enabling deception to be perpetrated and justified. You foolish defenders of false prophets in turn become agents of deception, enablers of lies.
Amen Brother Drew, Amen!
And Amen Sister Hardcore... I CAN Do All Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me! PRAISE HIM for His Grace and Mercy and for giving me such Wonderful Brethern to Stand Firm along side!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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HisGrace
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I really think that most preachers will not specify the day or the hour of Jesus' return, because they know it is not scriptural, but there are certain propechies in the Bible and once these are fulfilled, we can be sure that the Rapture and tribulation are right at our doorstep. Many prophecies are being fulfilled right now. ![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif)
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WhiteEagle
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by hardcore It is through these discussions that the Truth is shown.
Although the "defenders of falsehoods" don't realize it, they continually expose their own error, thus helping to prove our point.
Stand strong ST. Deception within the church will continue to get worse and the battle for Truth will rage on.
"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." Phl 4:13
That "I" means you!!! ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif) [/QUOTE]
"He who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall." "Pride goeth before a fall."
Don't be so sure you know all Truth, my friend.
I think Benny Hinn was wrong to make statements like "the rapture is going to happen in 2 years"
and some of the other statements I've shown that he did have some of it right. (and time will tell if he had all of it right.) On the other end of the spectrum.....
I've heard Baptist preachers say time and time again that Jesus could return tonight, just so they can get people to the altar. So aren't they also predicting the Rapture?
Isn't Hinn just doing the same ploy? ie by saying the Rapture will happen in 2 years, etc.
I've heard them say things, like "you can walk out of this church and may never have another chance to accept Christ." Isn't that a type of prophecy?
Or are they attempting to be the Holy Spirit? and do the Holy Spirit's work in their flesh with manipulation tactics.
When the Spirit of God does speak in a born again Christian it is called the gift of prophecy. For the testimony of Jesus is The spirit of prophecy. Rev.19:10
Please notice that throughout both Old and New Testaments that whenever prophecy is given, it is NOT in direct as we would call "direct" concrete terms.
The Book of Revelation of Jesus Christ is the most difficult concept to understand due to it's use of word pictures for spiritual and physical events and concepts.
A recent personal example:
My pastor told me that the Lord told her "fires were being lit around me,or/ and I was lighting fires". The basic concept was "lighting fires".
I was instantly upset with that statement as I felt, she's just trying to say, that I'm a troublemaker. She wasn't and I knew that, but it was still not meaning a thing at all to me.
I didn't think much more about it, until a couple of days later when I was looking for a book at the bookstore, I selected a book on the subject I was searching for. I opened the book and went to a chapter that had information I wished to look at, and Lo and behold... This author was talking about "lighting fires"! The author was referencing Isaiah 50:10,11 and it talked about those who light their own fires...."
I won't go into why that now has lots of meaning for me personally, but God didn't have her directly tell me, " You need to stop defending yourself, and let me be your Defense."
As that's what lighting fires is about.
I could have just wrote her off, and called her a false prophet, and a kind of crazy lady. I could have just decided she was full of nothing.
If I'd been wiser I could have looked in the Strong's Concordance to find that verse. But it still wouldn't have hit home to me.
God lead me to what I needed, and He uses the Body of Christ to edify each other.
I wish I could get you to open your eyes, that God sometimes will speak very specifically and directly. Sodom and Gomorrah for example.
But most of the Old Testament prophecies are very
hard to understand at face value. That's because we need the Holy Spirit to reveal Truth.
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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
quote:
This is becoming a total waste of my time and energy.
One is never wasting time when one is presenting God's word in the face of the enemy's lies.
Yes, you're right Sis! Thanks ![[Kiss]](graemlins/Kiss.gif)
Exactly. It is through these discussions that the Truth is shown.
Although the "defenders of falsehoods" don't realize it, they continually expose their own error, thus helping to prove our point.
Stand strong ST. Deception within the church will continue to get worse and the battle for Truth will rage on.
"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." Phl 4:13
That "I" means you!!!
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SoftTouch
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
quote:
This is becoming a total waste of my time and energy.
One is never wasting time when one is presenting God's word in the face of the enemy's lies.
Yes, you're right Sis! Thanks
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
This is becoming a total waste of my time and energy.
One is never wasting time when one is presenting God's word in the face of the enemy's lies.
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Caretaker
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God bless you Deb!!!
HG can only attack the credibility of the messenger, in her defense of Benny Hinn.
Benny Hinn's own words convict him.
The rabid defense of this false prophet only undermines the credibility of the defender in the realm of spiritual discernment. A deep concern arises that the defender could themselves be driven by the deceiving spirit which drives Hinn.
The Holy Spirit is God.
When Benny Hinn declares that, "this is what the Spirit is saying", he IS declaring "Thus sayeth the Lord". When what he says from the spirit is false, and does not come to pass, then he is a false prophet.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“The Spirit tells me - Fidel Castro will die - in the 90's. Oooh my! Some will try to kill him and they will not succeed. But there will come a change in his physical health, and he will not stay in power, and Cuba will be visited of God.” “Holy Spirit just said to me, It could be worse than any death you can imagine. There's some question in my spirit on what kind of death the Lord means. I'm not sure. I see him. Uh. I see Cas, I, I see Castro bent over behind bars. I don't know what that means.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
ONE WHO DECLARES "THUS SAYETH THE LORD" MUST BE 100% ACCURATE.
DEUT. 18:
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? 22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Hinn is not speaking from the Holy Spirit of God, but from a false spirit of deception.
Those foolish who blindly defend this false prophet are not only deceived but are actively enabling deception to be perpetrated and justified. You foolish defenders of false prophets in turn become agents of deception, enablers of lies.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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HisGrace
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To Tell The Truth: Bearing A True Witness In A World Of Drama - quote:
The scriptures recount for us incident after incident of people using their false testimony to destroy and harm others.
Consider the account of Daniel in Daniel 6. Daniel, a Jew, in the land of Babylon was promoted far above all the other Babylonians around him. Jealously set in and as such those around him sought to find grounds for charges against him in his conduct of government affairs, but they were unable to do so. The scriptures tell us that because they were unable to find anything to charge him with , because he was trustworthy and neither corrupt nor negligent, that they schemed to find a reason for charging him on the basis of his faith in God. These schemers then convinced the king to change the laws, forcing Daniel to break the law in order to keep his faith. The result was this: God protected Daniel and those who accused him and schemed against him got their due reward
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SoftTouch
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This is becoming a total waste of my time and energy. You can Not show someone something they Don't Want To See (EVEN WHEN YOU USE CLEAR SCRIPTURE).
May the Lord Open Your Eyes! In Jesus Name, Amen
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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HisGrace
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This is taken from deceptioninthechurh.com
"8 Benny Hinn And Necromancy (Talking to the Dead) by Joseph R. Chambers, 1997
Benny Hinn is an admitted necromancer. Judge for yourself, by Hinn's own account of when the "anointing" on his ministry "doubled" whether or not this "anointing" is from the Holy Spirit or from contact with evil spirits posing as dead people like Elijah and Kathryn Kuhlman. The Bible states clearly that necromancy, talking to the dead (actually evil spirits), is an abomination to God: Duet 18:10-12 "There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD ..." Saul was judged by God for trying to bring up the spirit of Samuel, the only time in history that God permitted this for his own purposes. Read this entire account from the lips of Benny Hinn. There are only three possibilities. Either he actually had these experiences, which is impossible according to Scripture; or he made them up out of his own imagination, in which case he is a liar and need to repent; or these were actual demonic encounters. Even if this account is a mixture of imagination and demonization, ALL CHRISTIANS SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM THE COUNTERFEIT ANOINTING OF BENNY HINN, and the rest of the Third Wave.
(9) Kathryn Kuhlman - From "Occult ABC" by Kurt Koch, 1976
Here is a chapter from the famous book "Occult ABC" by Kurt Koch. It is significant that Koch felt he should include Kathryn Kuhlman in this book. This is the woman that Benny Hinn received his "anointing" from and whose grave he visits to receive more "anointing" on occasion. She is the same woman who was a mentor for John Arnott at the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship, where the Toronto "Blessing" subsequently began. Note the striking similarities between what is going on in the "counterfeit" revival movement today and Kuhlman's meetings.
~This accusation that Benny Hinn is into necromancy is an out and out ridiculous lie. I have heard the true story of how Benny Hinn came into the healing ministry from one of his own sites.
He was asleep. He had a dream and Kathryn Kuhlman appeared briefly, very briefly, and then the Lord spoke to him and told him to go into the healing ministry.
If you buy into and repeat all of the lies printed about him you are breaking one of the Ten Commandments folks. Obviously you don't know what is true and what is fiction.
The 9th Commandment - "Do not bear false witness against your neighbor."
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Caretaker
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Amen Deb and Linda!!!!!!!
The Holy Spirit is God.
When Benny Hinn declares that, "this is what the Spirit is saying", he IS declaring "Thus sayeth the Lord". When what he says from the spirit is false, and does not come to pass, then he is a false prophet.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“The Spirit tells me - Fidel Castro will die - in the 90's. Oooh my! Some will try to kill him and they will not succeed. But there will come a change in his physical health, and he will not stay in power, and Cuba will be visited of God.” “Holy Spirit just said to me, It could be worse than any death you can imagine. There's some question in my spirit on what kind of death the Lord means. I'm not sure. I see him. Uh. I see Cas, I, I see Castro bent over behind bars. I don't know what that means.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
ONE WHO DERCLARES "THUS SAYETH THE LORD" MUST BE 100% ACCURATE.
DEUT. 18:
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? 22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Hinn is not speaking from the Holy Spirit of God, but from a false spirit of deception.
Those foolish who blindly defend this false prophet are not only deceived but are actively enabling deception to be perpetrated and justified. You foolish defenders of false prophets in turn become agents of deception, enablers of lies.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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SoftTouch
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Benny Hinns has said
“The Spirit tells me - Fidel Castro will die - in the 90's. Oooh my!”
“The Lord also tells me to tell you in the mid 90's, about '94-'95, no later than that, God will destroy the homosexual community of America”
“The Spirit of God tells me an earthquake will hit the East Coast of America and destroy much in the nineties.”
On the November 9, 1990 Praise-a-Thon, Hinn told Crouch his new revelation. “Paul, I can say this -- Are you ready for this? We may have two years before the rapture. . . Can I be blunt with ya? I don't know if we have two years left. . . I'm gonna prove to you from the Word tonight, that we have less than two years.”
The Bible Says:
quote:
Deuteronomy 18: 20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Jeremiah 14: 14Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
Jeremiah 23: 16Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.
Ezekiel 13: 8Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.
Matthew 7: 15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Matthew 24: 10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24: 23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.
Mark 13: 21And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
2 Peter 2: 1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
1 John 4: 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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HisGrace
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Genesis 17:1-9 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
~God grave this promise to Abraham some 4000 years ago. Did it happen? No it did not. Is God a liar? - No He is not. This promise has yet to be fulfilled.
God works in His own timing - not ours.
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WhiteEagle
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America's economic collapse has been foretold by others also. We did have a recession in the early 1990's It is true that many multimillion dollar businesses are owned by Japanese, and foreign countries.
Hinn's prophecy about sending money to be included in the blessing with Israel is suspect.
Iraq war is seeing "rivers of blood" of the people of Iraq, with new bombings daily even now.
Ariel Sharon is still in a coma. Hammas has been voted in as the Palestine's leaders. My guess is that fear of Israel is what keeps Iran in check.
Personally, I do not watch Benny Hinn, I stated he is too emotional for me. His doctrine on the Rapture is flawed, so of course he will prophecy according to his beliefs on that issue.
Prophets are not perfect spokemen. As Paul states we see in part and prophecy in part.
Please ask yourself objecttively though. Do these prophecies deny Christ and His redemption on the Cross, and do they preach Salvation by any other way?
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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WhiteEagle
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In the 1990's the homosexual community did suffer the AIDS epidemic. While it is believed this virus originated in Africa, it also spread from Haiti and up from Central America. As to being burned with "fire", have you had AIDS? I know one man who got saved when he was dying of AIDS, I wonder how many more got saved before they died?
It didn't completely destroy the homosexual community as we know. It did cause radical change
I agree with you that Benny Hinn is way too emotional for my taste. ON the Rapture, I've heard plenty of Baptist preachers get people to come to the altar on that one. ie. Jesus could come tonight and you would be left out. While that is true, since a person could die at any time, and Jesus could return at any time, it's not false per se, but it uses the gospel for emotional reactions. The Baptist pastor might not be in a trance, but he is still prophecying.
As to Jesus appearing physically on the platform, that seemed to be a prophecy from one of Benny Hinn's friends, named Ruth. It doesn't exonerate Hinn, as he is taking it for his own and is in agreement with Ruth on that. An no I don't think it happened or I haven't heard that it happened, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT CAN'T HAPPEN OR WON'T HAPPEN. I didn't see a time frame or limit on that one.
As to earthquakes on the East Coast in the 1990's, we didn't have any huge earthquakes obviously and now it's 2006. But....scientists have recently found a huge fault line in the eastern half of the US, and predict an earthqake could occur and it would wipe out major cities on the East Coast.
In 1989 You say Hinn predicted a woman president?
That was before Bill and Hillary got on the scene. Hilary is one of the main hopefuls for the 2008 Presidental race, and perhaps Condi Rice. I didn't see a time line recorded by Hinn for this one either, so that could occur many years from now.
The Bible says we see through a glass darkly.
1 Corinthians 13:9 "For we know in part and we prophecy in part..." vs 12 "Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror, then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part: then shall I know fully, even as I am fully known."
Ezekiel must have really taken alot of flack from his vision of the wheel in a wheel.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
So does this make Benny Hinn a true prophet or a false one? There is not third choice
Oh contraire sister there is a third and fourth and even a fifth, 6th and 7th and 8th choice. We have heard them all right here on the CBBS:
3. You misunderstood what he was saying.
4. He did not really say these things they are taken out of context.
5. He may be but I wont be the one to say
6. Touch not thou God's annointed
7. its not related to salvation; he is a born again child of God and God will deal with him
8. yeah, but he does give so much to charity leave him alone!
You know what though... one day we will all get to hear God's take on things
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SoftTouch
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False Prophecies of Benny Hinn
quote:
May 2nd, 2000 - This Is Your Day
"And I know, that I know, that I know, we are about to see the greatest manifestations of God's presence ever! A prophetess named Ruth Heflin sent me a word recently and told me to get ready, to see, physical manifestations of Christ on the platforms in our crusades, that people will have visions of the Lord in the meetings. Those things have happened in the past, I know. In a Thialagua (spelling?) meeting one time in Africa, the Lord appeared to a - to the whole crowd! It is about to begin happening, I know it too! Expect it, to happen also, in your own home!"
~ Benny Hinn.
quote:
April 21st, 2000 - This Is Your Day
"You know, yesterday on the program I was telling you and the audience here that Ruth Heflin, the prophetess, had sent me a word from the Lord, where she said that the Lord had spoken to her clearly, that, a, for me to prepare myself, for the Lord is going to visibly appear, on the platform, in one of our crusades. I pray it'll happen in every crusade. But I have a feeling, I am just telling you honestly, I have even told some of our staff, when I go to Kenya, I am going to Kenya in just a few days from now, a million people will be in Kenya, Nairobi. I feel in my being it is going to happen there. So pray for us as we go to Kenya. I pray it will happen tonight, at the good Friday service in Nashville. I pray it will happen in every crusade."
~ Benny Hinn.
quote:
April 20th, 2000 - This Is Your Day
"Ruth Heflin: the Lord spoke to her recently, and she called my wife and told her to tell me, that Jesus said to her, that He will appear physically on the platform in one of our crusades. [Harald Bredesen] My! [Benny] She said, 'Tell Benny, that the Lord told me, that He is going to appear physically, on the platform, and the crowds will see Him, on the platform.' [Harald Bredesen] Jesus! [Benny] Dear God my hair is standing up! [Harald Bredesen] Praise God! [Benny] It may very well happen in Nashville!" ...
"... think about what's going to happen when the people, thousands, she said thousands will see the Lord on the, on the, on the platform! Lord may it happen in every crusade this year in Jesus mighty name."
~ Benny Hinn.
quote:
April 2nd, 2000 - TBN Praise-a-thon
"The hour is urgent. Many of you have known me for many years. But I am telling you right now, things I haven't said years 'n years 'n years ago. I believe – here this, hear this! I believe, that Jesus, God's Son, is about to appear physically, in meetings and to believers around the world, to wake us up! He appeared after His resurrection and He is about to appear before His second coming! You know a prophetess sent me a word through my wife, right here, and she said 'Tell your husband that Jesus is go'n to physically appear in his meetings.' I am expecting to see, I am telling you that - I feel it's going to happen. I, I, I'm, I'm careful in how I am saying it now, because I know the people in Kenya are listening. I know deep in my soul, something supernatural is going to happen in Nai - in Nairobi Kenya. I feel that. I may very well come back, and you and Jan are coming, to - Paul and Jan are coming to Nairobi with me, but Paul, we may very well come back with footage of Jesus on the platform! You know that the Lord appeared in Romania recently, and there's a video of it? Where the Lord appeared in the back of a church and you see him on video walking down the isle? Yeah! Paul do you remember when I came on TBN years ago and showed you a clip of the Lord appearing in our church in Orlando, on the balcony on the wall? Yeah. You, you remember that? [Paul Crouch] Very well, I saw it! [Benny Hinn] That was '80, 80 something, '86, what - whatever. You know I always wondered why the Lord, why did He do that? Do you know why, now I look back? That was the beginning of the greatest move of God in our church. Because '83, '84, and '85 were horrible years for me, horrible years. Eighty-six the blessings of God began, but they began with a - with this manifestation of the Lord's face on, on the balcony, that stayed for eight weeks. Eight solid weeks! The Lord has done this in the past, but He is about to do it again, now hear this, I am prophesying this! Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is about to appear physically in some churches, and some meetings, and to many of His people, for one reason - to tell you He is about to show up! To Wake Up! Jesus is coming saints! You have held back from the Lord in the past, don't you dare do it now. The day will come you'll stand before Him and give an answer. How dare we not give to God. How dare we hold back."
~ Benny Hinn.
quote:
April 2nd, 2000 - TBN Praise-a-thon
"Ladies and gentleman, Jesus is shaking the world! Now something else is happening that is to me awesome! Absolutely awesome! The Lord is physically appearing in the Muslim world. I'm telling you, Paul, I am hearing it now more and more and more. Since we preachers cannot go there, Jesus is - just going there Himself. Since we preachers are not permitted to go in, He is just showing up - Himself. You know the Scriptures says clearly that the Lord did appear, did He not? Ah for forty days, isn't that right? And the, and the, and the Scriptures says he, he, he even, he even appeared to Paul. Now we are always thinking, well Jesus can't really preach, preach the Gospel. Who told you that? He was the first one to preach the Gospel. In fact He is the one who came to Paul and said, Paul, I am Jesus. He, He didn't send no angel to do that job. He did it Himself. If Jesus revealed Himself to Paul, why not reveal Himself to a lot more than just Paul? And He is doing it! The reason the Lord had to appear to Paul is because He knew Paul wouldn't listen to nobody else. Now in the case of Cornelius, the angel said send for Peter, 'cause, because Cornelius was, was ready, his heart was right, he'd been in prayer. But here's Paul killing everybody, causing 'em to blaspheme, Jesus said this man won't even listen to an angel, so I'll go do the job myself. So He went and knocked him right off his horse and preached the Gospel to him. He's doing the same thing today in the Muslim world. He's appearing, hear this, He is appearing to Muslims, saying I am Jesus of Nazareth! And they're coming to know the Lord! Why are those things happening? It's the last days! Saints, this is why we need to give to the Gospel now more than ever. You know naively say well I gave last year. Forget it! Last year it's gone! That cycle is over with! Seed time - harvest of last year is gone. Every season is a fresh season. We are in a fresh season. What, what you gave last year will not reap you anything this year. What you gave even a few months ago is gone, you got the harvest for that."
~ Benny Hinn
quote:
March 29th, 2000 - This Is Your Day
"Let me tell you something. The Holy Spirit has already told me He is about to show up. And you know, oh, I gotta tell you this quickly, just before we go. I had a word of prophecy from Ruth Heflin, you know who Ruth Heflin is? Ruth prophesied over me back in the seventies and everything she said has happened. She just sent me a word through my wife and said the Lord spoke to her audibly and said that He is going to appear physically in one of our crusades in the next few months. Yeah, she - I'm telling ya - she said, the Lord spoke to her audibly and said, 'Tell Benny I'm going to appear physically on the platform in his meetings'. Lord, do it in Phoenix Arizona in the name of Jesus! And in Kenya too, Lord, please, Lord, in fact, do it in every crusade. In Jesus' name."
~ Benny Hinn
What Saith Scipture?
quote:
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
quote:
Matthew 24: 23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.
26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
You can listen to the audio .wavs here: http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/bhinnfprophet.html as well as read even more outrageous statements by Hinn.
More False Prophecies from the mouth of Benny Hinn:
Orlando Christian Center, Dec. 31st, 1989 Benny Hinn's new year celebration
“The Lord also says that, Two of his great giants will die in the mid-90's. They've held the torch of revival for the last forty years, these two. One of them has been to this church, and the other has not. One will die suddenly while asleep. And the other will die of sickness. And as both giants die, which will be in the mid-90's, I will shake this world with a last revival. Their death will be the closing pages of this move.
[b]Did this happen?
“There will be many raised from the dead in that day. Many visitations of angels that will come as young men knocking at your door.
Did this happen?
Benny Hinns has said “The Spirit tells me - Fidel Castro will die - in the 90's. Oooh my! Some will try to kill him and they will not succeed. But there will come a change in his physical health, and he will not stay in power, and Cuba will be visited of God.” “Holy Spirit just said to me, It could be worse than any death you can imagine. There's some question in my spirit on what kind of death the Lord means. I'm not sure. I see him. Uh. I see Cas, I, I see Castro bent over behind bars. I don't know what that means.”
Did this happen?
“The Lord also tells me to tell you in the mid 90's, about '94-'95, no later than that, God will destroy the homosexual community of America. [audience applauds] But He will not destroy it - with what many minds have thought Him to be, He will destroy it with fire. And many will turn and be saved, and many will rebel and be destroyed”
Did this happen?
“God tells me to tell you, There's a new disease that will arise on the scene--unknown to mankind. It will kill many. The Spirit of God tells me to tell you that, There is a demon spirit (my goodness). His name is Apollyon. He's written-up in the book of Revelation. His name is the destructor, destroyer. He will come from the south--from South America into America itself--and will plague many for living in rebellion. God tells me to tell you that, The drug problem of America will cause many to die with that plague.”
Did this happen?
“The economy of the United States of America is going to fall. Many businesses will go bankrupt. Many will bought over by foreign companies, even as they are now. But God says, They will be bought by nations that now are considered underdeveloped. God said, Japan will turn away from America, and will join hands with Europe.”
Did this happen?
“The Spirit of God tells me an earthquake will hit the East Coast of America and destroy much in the nineties. Not one place will be safe from earthquakes in the nineties. These who have not known earthquakes will know it.”
Did this happen? [I know someone who did just this spoke with a representative from the National Earthquake Information Center in Colorado. He verified that there were no major, destructive earthquakes on the east coast of America in the 1990's. Call or write the NEIC yourself to verify this].
Hinn said “The Spirit tells me that, Europe, who is already now becoming powerful, will rule the nations and influence the world.”
Hinn’s revelation continued “Oooh. A world dictator is coming on the scene - my! He's a short man. He's a short man! I see a short man! Who's a perfect incarnation of Satan . ... Never in my life have I had anything happen like what's happening to me now. This man will rule the world. The next few years you will see him. But not long after that you will see Me.” (December 31, 1989)
Did this happen?
Castro did not die in the dates given--the homosexual community of America was not burned with fire on the dates given. More than a “few years” have passed and we see not short man ruling the world and we haven't seen God. No new disease from south America, America did not go bankrupt, Europe did not rule the nations etc. etc. This is all from one prophecy and make insult to injury Hinn says at the end ... “I wish somebody would make sure to tell me what I said. Did--Did you tape that, brother? Did you tape that? Ooh! I was totally drunk. I'm still drunk. “Lord, if You spoke through me--if what You said is of You--then as I stretch my fingers towards the people, let Your power fall on everyone of 'em. If what I said, Master, is, is of You, let the power flow now.”
“What did I say in that prophecy, guys? How long did I? I prophesied for twenty minutes? I'd like to know what I said. I was totally gone”(Orlando Christian Center, Dec. 31st, 1989 ).
As Hinn states “What a way to start the 90's. What a way to start the 90's.” When one loses their faculties and has no consciousness of what they said it is more like channeling a spirit. The true prophets of God never spoke in this manner.
The rapture is coming
“The Spirit tells me that, ...following the rapture--a woman president will be in the White House, and that woman president will destroy this nation, but My church will, will be gone. ...A world dictator is coming on the scene. ... I see a short man, whose a perfect incarnation of Satan.... This man will rule the world. The next few years you will see him. But not long after that, you will see Me.” (December 31, 1989 at the Orlando Christian Center)
On the November 9, 1990 Praise-a-Thon, Hinn told Crouch his new revelation. “Paul, I can say this -- Are you ready for this? We may have two years before the rapture. . . Can I be blunt with ya? I don't know if we have two years left. . . I'm gonna prove to you from the Word tonight, that we have less than two years.”
Two years makes it 1992, but 5 years after when it was to occur on the July 1997 fund-raiser telethon on TBN Benny Hinn said a newer revelation for those who forgot the other new one, but this is 7 years later “Jesus is coming again within the next two years” (Trinity Broadcasting Network).
Did this happen?
That would have made it 1999 - several years ago. Not to wonder, he will say it again if he has enough time. Hinn repeats everything over and over because he is counting on you not remembering.
Hinn had claimed that God is about to make a major move to anoint the people of God, as soon as Israel signs a treaty with the ailing Hafez Al-Assad of Syria, which will likely be within the next year. This will signal the impending large scale shift of financial wealth from the wicked to those obedient to God (as has been taught to his followers for 10 years). To benefit from this special anointing, you must be obedient to God and sow your financial seed to TBN now!
The death of Assad on June 10th proves Hinn does not know what he was talking about, and yet he uses Gods name as if he does.
More recent failed prophecies
“Yes. The glory of God is going to visit His mighty church. Yes Lord. Three and a half months from now a great event is going to take place in the world, followed by a mighty move of God in the church. Three and a half months from now something is going to happen in this world: headline news, you'll know it. I will not tell you what I see. You'll just know it, and something mighty will follow in the Spirit. God, the Holy Ghost, is saying to His church - Watch Israel. Watch my people Israel. You will know as you read the scriptures and watch Israel. 'For the days are short' says the Lord. 'The days ahead are evil' says the Lord, 'but I have reserved a place for my people, a place of safety, a place of protection.'“ (Benny Hinn, December 29th, 2002)
Did this happen? NO it did not.
On 12/30/02 explaining on “ the 18th of December at 2 am I awakened to a prophecy ringing in my heart. I was hearing myself prophesy. ... Jeremiah the prophet said that when the Spirit of God came upon him, when the word of the Lord came upon him, it was as fire came into his being. And he could not hold the prophesy. When the Word of the Lord is given to you, you'll prophesy even if you're alone in that place. And so I felt as though my mouth was about to burst with this prophesy. But what I heard was frightening. That was on Wednesday. Thursday morning at 2 am in fact. And now I'm hearing the words “Rivers of blood, rivers of blood.” And the Lord revealed to me what's coming in the next few days and weeks with this war with Iraq.
“When all this comes true - and it surely will - then they will know that a prophet has been among them.” (Ezek. 33:33).
So does this make Benny Hinn a true prophet or a false one? There is not third choice.
More of the article here: http://letusreason.org/b.hinn12.htm
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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