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Author
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Topic: Positive Confession
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BORN AGAIN
unregistered
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posted
Thank you, sis.
Joel 2
12 Therefore also now, says the LORD, turn to Me with all your heart and with fasting and with weeping and with mourning;
13 And rend your heart and not your garments, and turn to the LORD your God; for He is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, who repents of doing evil.
Amos 2
4 Thus says the LORD: for three transgressions of Judah, and for four, I will not turn away thereof; because they have despised the law of the LORD and have not kept His commandments.
Amos 3
3 Can two walk together except they be agreed?
Amos 4
10 I have sent among you the pestilence after the manner of Egypt; your young men have I slain with the sword and I have taken away your horses; and I have made the stink of your camps to come up in your nostrils; yet have you not returned to Me, says the LORD.
Amos 4
12 Therefore thus will I do to you, O Israel; I will do this to you, "Prepare to meet your God, O Israel!"
Amos 5
14 Seek good, and not evil, that you may live; and so the LORD, the God of armies, shall be with you, as you have spoken.
15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment {justice} in the gate; it may be that the LORD God of armies will be gracious to the remnant of Joseph.
Seeking good and not evil is much more than just positive confession. Seeking good is a physical activity, positive confession is a "fruit of the lips":
Isaiah 29
13 Forasmuch as this people draws near Me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor Me, but have removed their heart far from Me, and their fear toward Me is toward by the precepts of men.
If the LORD sees us willing and interesed in "getting to know Him and His Family", He guarantees to be with us":
Amos 5
14 Seek good, and not evil, that you may live; and so the LORD, the God of armies, shall be with you, as you have spoken.
"Seek first the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added unto you."
Positive confession is remembering what the LORD has done in the past, but positive confession is not a requirement to get the LORD to be with us, Amen?
God bless, BORN AGAIN ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
That was really quite beautiful BA! ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif) Thanks for sharring it!
quote:
Positive confession is probably an exercise of the flesh, which can help with “remembrance of the LORD”; but prosperity is generated by the LORD when He sees someone “actively trying to learn about Him and His Family”.
3 John 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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BORN AGAIN
unregistered
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posted
Dear WildB, that is a very interesting post. I liked this part of yours quote:
However, God's word is already "quick and powerful" (Hebrews 4:12), and it is referred to as the "Word of Life" (Phillipians 2:16). It is not necessary to activate it by speaking words of faith as though it were asleep or dead! Rather, it is by hearing the "living" word that one is brought to salvation through faith in Christ. (Romans 10:17)
I also liked this part of yours: quote:
McConnell records Kenneth Copeland in The Laws of Prosperity (p. 98, 101) as saying, "You can have what you say! In fact, what you are saying is exactly what you are getting now. If you are living in poverty and lack and want, change what you are saying. It will change what you have. Discipline your vocabulary. God will be obligated to meet your needs because of His word. If you stand firmly on this, your needs will be met" (Ibid., p. 173).
I find this especially interesting because I just got through reading Isaiah and Hosea and Joel and Amos, and in one of them the LORD God talks to northern Israel.
After the split of Israel into two kingdoms, with Rehoboam of Judah and Jeroboam of Israel, Jeroboam abandoned the worship of the LORD and set up the two golden calves at Dan and Bethel and he also readily adopted Baal-ism and Moloch. The northern kingdom of Israel abandoned the LORD.
But I just read in the Bible, that “s/he who will seek the LORD, He will be with them”; that’s a guantee.
Positive confession can serve as a tool for remembrance of the LORD but prosperity is dependent on whether one is actively seeking to know who the LORD God of Israel is by reading His Bible.
Amos 9
2 And He said, “Amos, what do you see?” And I said, “A basket of summer fruit.” Then said the LORD to me, “The end is come upon my people Israel; I will not pass by them anymore.”
Positive confession is probably an exercise of the flesh, which can help with “remembrance of the LORD”; but prosperity is generated by the LORD when He sees someone “actively trying to learn about Him and His Family”.
Hosea 13
9 O Israel, you have destroyed yourself; but in Me is your help.
Hosea 4
6 My people “are destroyed” for “lack of knowledge”; because you “have rejected knowledge”, I will also reject you.
No amount of positive confession can overcome Hosea 4:5. What knowledge are they lacking? In Hosea, the LORD is talking to the northern kingdom of Israel, who has rejected the worship of the LORD in favor of two golden calves and Baal-ism and Moloch. The LORD is being worshipped in the kingdom of Judah, not in the kingdom of Israel!
Hosea 6
3 Then shall we know, when we follow on to know the LORD.
6 For I desired mercy and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burned offerings.
Hosea 8
4 Your calf, O Samaria, has cast you off; My anger is kindled against them.
Not positive confession, but not spending time to get to know the LORD God of Israel and His Family.
Hosea 7
10 The pride of Israel testifies to his face; but [they do not return to the LORD their God, nor seek Him for all that.
Hosea 9
15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal; for there I hated them, for the wickedness of their doings, I will drive them out of My house; I will love them no more.
“Seek first the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added on to you.”
There is a great verse in Hosea or Amos or Joel or Obadiah that I’m still looking for, but…
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
I can Amen perhaps 98% of that T7 and still agree with WildB's article. Where is that power of the tongue thread you started? I would like to see us discuss that some more. I know that there were some things I posted there that I would like to hear your thoughts on and we never got back to that one. Can you find it? Are you interested in opening it up again?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thunderz7:
The scriptures posted by WhiteEagle are a very small % of the scriptures pointing to the power and affect/effect of the tongue, the mouth, words.
There are definite scriptural principles about tongue, words, mouth.
YES, MANY take the teachings WAY TOO FAR.
Many teach falsely about these scriptural principles.
But those who deny that these scriptural principles exist are just as guilty of being false teachers, just as guilty of spreading the lies of satan.
Being in the ditch on the right side of the road is not so different from being in the ditch on the left of the road.
We are still stuck in the muck, mire and filth going nowhere.
Most of the so called WOF has gotten off in one ditch, most of mainline denominationalism is in the other ditch, neither on the road, moving in the direction GOD would have us move, the voices from both ditches echo false teaching.
One twist the truth out of proportion,
thus calling lies the truth,
and may be adding to the WORD of GOD;
the other denies the truth,
thus calling the truth lies,
and are taking away from the WORD of GOD.
T7
Spoken with wisdom. Amen ThunderZ!
I think you have hit the nail on the head.
Like I stated I don't follow the WOF. But I'm learning from the Holy Spirit and from some other wonderful Christian friends about God and not to adhere to doctrines of men.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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Thunderz7
Advanced Member
Member # 31
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posted
The scriptures posted by WhiteEagle are a very small % of the scriptures pointing to the power and affect/effect of the tongue, the mouth, words.
There are definite scriptural principles about tongue, words, mouth.
YES, MANY take the teachings WAY TOO FAR.
Many teach falsely about these scriptural principles.
But those who deny that these scriptural principles exist are just as guilty of being false teachers, just as guilty of spreading the lies of satan.
Being in the ditch on the right side of the road is not so different from being in the ditch on the left of the road.
We are still stuck in the muck, mire and filth going nowhere.
Most of the so called WOF has gotten off in one ditch, most of mainline denominationalism is in the other ditch, neither on the road, moving in the direction GOD would have us move, the voices from both ditches echo false teaching.
One twist the truth out of proportion,
thus calling lies the truth,
and may be adding to the WORD of GOD;
the other denies the truth,
thus calling the truth lies,
and are taking away from the WORD of GOD.
T7
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
Maybe you do not hold to the "positive confession" teaching, WhiteEagle, but you are spending a great deal of time defending those who do, who lead their followers in error.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
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posted
I don't hold to that teaching but here are some verses about the power of our speech:
Proverbs 18:21
Life and death are in the power of the tongue. and those who love it will eat it's fruit.
Proverbs 18:6
A fool's lips lead to strife, and his mouth provokes a beating.
Proverbs 15:2
The tongue of the wise makes knowledge attractive, but the mouth of fools blurts out foolishness.
Proverb 15:4
The tongue that heals is a tree of life, but a devious tongue breaks the spirit.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
Positive Confession is the belief that if a believer speaks "spiritual" or "faith-filled" words then he can have what he says. Unfortunately, this influence has invaded the church and continues to cause much turmoil and confusion.
Many of the teachers of the word-faith movement believe that words are so powerful that they can influence the physical and spiritual worlds. For example:
In The Tongue, a Creative Force (1976), positive confessionist Charles Capps, teaches that there are powerful "spiritual" words. Such words, which are ordinary words, can under certain circumstances, become vehicles for creative or supernatural power.
When "faith-filled" spiritual words are spoken (as words of power), they can alter the physical and spiritual world. Capps says, "You see there is more to it than just saying it. The words must originate from the inner man where spiritual power is released through words."
He goes on to state that "spirit words can control both the spirit world and the physical world. Because the words themselves have power, they will work for either God or man in the same manner." He goes on:
"The spirit of man is not of this world, it is of the spirit world. The creative ability of man comes through his spirit. He speaks spirit words that work in the world of the spirit. They will also dominate the physical world. He breathes spirit life into God's Word and it becomes a living substance, working for him as it worked for God in the beginning. These spirit words dominate the natural world" (p. 117-118).
What Capps is alluding to in the above statement is his teaching that since God, "by His faith" (using words) spoke this physical world into existence; the believer, using faith, can do the same. That is, the believer can speak things into existence. However, God's word is already "quick and powerful" (Hebrews 4:12), and it is referred to as the "Word of Life" (Phillipians 2:16). It is not necessary to activate it by speaking words of faith as though it were asleep or dead! Rather, it is by hearing the "living" word that one is brought to salvation through faith in Christ. (Romans 10:17)
A number of the prosperity teachers believe that the spiritual world controls and continually forms the physical world. So, if one can learn to control the spiritual world, then he can learn to control the physical world as well. This teaching then becomes the foundation for securing individual prosperity.
That is why in Releasing the Ability of God, Capps states, "You can have what you say! (because) the powerful force of the spiritual world that creates the circumstances around us is controlled by the words of the mouth. This force comes from inside us; the confession of our mouth will cause you to possess it" (pp. 98-99, parenthesis mine). This is why he teaches, "Discipline your vocabulary," and "today your word is god over your circumstances" (pp. 101-104).
Capps also teaches that the power within a Christian, within one's spirit, functions according to unchangeable laws. He says "These principles of faith are based on spiritual laws. They work for whosoever will apply these laws" (The Tongue, p. 103).
D. R. McConnell, in his book, A Different Gospel, directly traces the origin the spiritual laws taught in positive confession to the metaphysics of E.W. Kenyon, a man of 50-60 years ago whose theology was that of Pentecostal Christian Science (A Different Gospel, pp. 3-56).
McConnell records Kenneth Copeland in The Laws of Prosperity (p. 98, 101) as saying, "You can have what you say! In fact, what you are saying is exactly what you are getting now. If you are living in poverty and lack and want, change what you are saying. It will change what you have. Discipline your vocabulary. God will be obligated to meet your needs because of His word. If you stand firmly on this, your needs will be met" (Ibid., p. 173).
McConnell further states, that E.W. Kenyon's New Thought classmate, Ralph Waldo Trine, attributes the confession of prosperity to "Occult power." He says that "Trine believed that thought is a force, and it has Occult power of unknown proportions when rightly used and wisely directed" (Ibid., p. 174).
The usage of Occult powers is, of course, a practice that the Word-Faith teachers would publicly reject. Of course, this is not to say that those offering these teachings are Occultists. They are teachers who may never have thought through the implications of the practices they advocate. They may be unaware of the similarities between certain aspects of positive confession and Occulict practices. Nevertheless, the similarities do exist, and these practices are neither Biblical nor Christian.
John Ankerberg's issue of News and Views, June 1988, p. 1, reports that these words are used in religious rituals to influence both the spirit world and the material world. The report quotes Occult magician David Conway discussing the power of magical words to affect these worlds:
"Unseparable from magical speculation about words is the theory of vibrations, which supposes that certain sounds have a powerful acoustic impact on both the spiritual and astral worlds. Like the spiritual world and astral plane can in some circumstances be affected by sound, so that verbal magic may be said to derive its power not only from the idea contained in certain words, but from the peculiar vibrations these words create when spoken" (Magic: an Occult Primer, pp. 74-75).
Occultists, of course, have long claimed the true inner nature of man is powerful, capable of exercising divine ability. This is why New Ager Benjamin Creme says, for example, "One doesn't pray to oneself, one prays to the God within. The thing is to learn to invoke that energy which is the energy of God. Prayer and worship as we know it today will gradually die out and men will be trained to invoke the (inner) power of deity" (The Reappearance of Christ and the Masters of Wisdom, pp. 135-136, parenthesis mine).
The reason that positive confessionists can place so much emphasis on the inner man and his divine power is that they think the believer is a god. Kenneth Copeland says, "You don't have a god in you, you are one" (Copeland's sermon tape The Force of Love). And Kenneth Hagin says, "The believer is as much an incarnation of God as Jesus Christ" (Hagin, Word of Faith, p. 14).
To the positive confessionist, scripture passages such as Proverbs 18:21, "Death and Life are in the power of the tongue;" and James 3:8-10 are taken as proof of this doctrine, because they believe as "little gods" they have the same power as God through their own words.
Is it any wonder that Charles Capps says "The confession of your mouth even after you have prayed correctly will determine whether or not you receive. You can release the ability of God through the words of your mouth" (Releasing the Ability of God, 1978, pp. 93, 96).
For Christians words and faith are important, but there is a limit to what words can do.
It can help or hurt a close friend or a total stranger by what one says, but to treat words as if they were some "star wars" type weapon by which one alters or manipulates reality is not biblical, but Occultic. If one could change reality by the power of words spoken, then that would put man on the same level with God. This is exactly what teachers of the "positive confession," or word-faith movement, claim.
We are told by God Himself that He spoke the creation into existence (Genesis 1). He has not given that power to anyone else!
http://www.watchman.org/reltop/posconf.htm
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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