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Author Topic: Fishing!!
wparr
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Here's what I'm talking about - from another BBS

quote:
"ajesusman"
Yesterday, I went to the store to get some lighter fluid (not a particularly spiritual task, one might think) and when I come into the door of the store I hear this intoxicated man talking. I guess I had a strange look on my face because a lady in line at the counter said, "What's that look on your face?" I just said, "A look," and continued on looking for the lighter fluid.

When I came back about a minute later, the same lady was paying, and I said, "Want to know what that look on my face was?"

"Yes," she replied.

"I was thinking of all the things that the Lord Jesus had saved ME from," I told her.

Anyway, I really wasn't intending to say that: it just came out. In fact, to be quite honest I wasn't intending to do anything spiritual or supernatural or to witness or anything; but when I got outside this same lady said something else to me (I forget what).

So, I start talking to her about Jesus as God leads. First, she b-a-r-e-l-y gives me permission to continue ... but I talk to her for like 20 minutes at least.

(She had a spirit of divination and was kind of like ... demonic ... so it wasn't a particularly comfortable time. I had to keep submitting to the Lord to remain patient and loving with her. And the Lord warned me to stay within the boundaries of what He authored.)

In the end, she says, "I know God sent you here to talk to me today and that I have to make a choice."

On the way home (after I left), I'm feeling kind of surreal because I really had Z-E-R-O natural inlcination at the time all this happened to engage in any spiritual work. In fact, I never consciously intended to say A-N-Y of the things I ended up saying at first in the conversation.

Jesus just did a number on me, and the next thing I know I'm in the middle of a spiritual battle.

Course, it was all by grace, so it was cool.

I just remember driving home and thinking, "How do I get involved in these situations?"

In God's economy, it is those whom we naturally esteem the least, who are most important.

Typical Jesus:heart:


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IAAFOTL
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Amen Brian! Well said.

quote:
Originally posted by Brian3:
I think if you want to put people down then you should go into the streets and see for yourself! A person has to recognize they have a sickness before they can get the Cure! Kirk And Ray Comfort are very Godly Men, They never put people down they want you to see that we are all the same, we are sinners and we need God Daily but everyone thinks you can live like Hell and still go to Heaven! If your not aware of the law how then can you be set free because without the law we can do anything!.....Ahhh NO! Most people can name 10 beers but 2 commandments. But for you to say Kirk is wrong... Well you need to look a little further into this ministry. Way Of The Master and Living Waters uses the Law and That is what Ray and Kirk Uses so you need to look in scriptures and find out if the law is usefull and is what they teach usefull and the only way to get someone to see that they are not as good as they think they are you USE THE LAW! Because we all fall short! Then comes the good news...Jesus paid it all you can be set free! your choice!!!! But I have to side with Ray and Kirk!



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IAAFOTL
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How many people truly that you do not know, are going to see your life? And how much of it are they going to see? Yes, you should be a living testimony which is in your best interest as well.

But frankly, I am so tired of hearing that excuse for not reaching out to people.

If the Apostles followed your instructions rather than the command of Christ, there is a good chance that the Gospel would have never reached any of us and we would all be on our way to hell.
Thank God for the obedience of the Apostles and the obedience of the children of God today!

GO YE INTO ALL THE WORLD AND PREACH THE GOSPEL TO EVERY CREATURE. - Mark 16:15

GO YE THEREFORE AND TEACH ALL NATIONS... ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. - Matthew 28: 19-20

quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
It amazes me how so many Christians want to go "witness" to strangers and give them tracks (not saying that it is wrong to do so)

Yet aren't very concerned about their witness (how they live out {or don't live out} the Gospel of Y'shua)to their neighbors and co-workers - the people they come into contact with in their day-to-day living.

We are given opportunities EVERYDAY.

What's the problem - are we afraid that our living doesn't match up with our proclaiming maybe?



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IAAFOTL
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Well, the Word of God does say that the Gospel is foolishness to those that are perishing.
People, when confronted with sin, may become offended. Sadly that is why many of the Churches today steer clear of the S and R words. (Sin and Repentence) for fear of loss of revenue and members. It would be better to have fear of the Lord!

That is not saving souls from perishing and it is not being a true Pastor, a shepherd over the flock.

People need to get real. This is not a game.
Either Eternal Life or Eternal Death are the options facing us all.

When it is done with the right heart,just as you see Kirk and Ray doing it, people don't usually get offended, and when done with the right heart, you know that God is with you, on your side.

Please understand, any that would get offended are the same people who would be offended if you walked up and told them "Jesus Loves you" and handed them a tract and never saw them again. Which in my humble opinion has not proven to be very effective, although I do not discount anyone who will at least do that, it's a start. But it is the Holy Spirit that gives us the boldness, when we come to a place where we understand that the world is filled with people who are perishing and know that any one of them could enter into eternity at any moment.

Go to a really crowded place, and just watch all of the masses of people coming and going, look at them all.....they are souls! And that is just one little area.

If you don't have a passion for souls, ask of God.
He will not turn you down trust me! And with that passion, and stepping out there, the Holy Spirit will give you what you need to do the job.

There is nothing "Agape" in your rants against WOTM from my viewpoint.

Souls are perishing. If you have a better way, get out there and teach it, don't sit there gnawing at the backs of your brothers and picking at the specks that YOU think are there.


quote:
Originally posted by frater_nothing:
I say this in Apape.

This might hurt people's feelings and annoy them.

But when I see people teaching and preaching like Kirk Cameron, it hurts my feelings and annoys me.

I'd rather have one like Paul than a million like Kirk Cameron.

That's just the sort of cornball teaching that fuzzy Evangelical fundies just eat up like candy.

It's trite teaching.

It makes the evangelia of Xpristos seem trite and easy.

It isn't.

If we are going to teach the evangelia, then it's time to get a reality check.



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IAAFOTL
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That's quite an exaggeration imho.

I think the WOTM is a great way of evangelizing personally and also believe the chances of creating a false convert are minimized.

Just out of curiosity and perhaps we might all learn something from you, what method do you use or how do you evangelize?


quote:
Originally posted by frater_nothing:
quote:
Originally posted by Brian3:
Hey do any of you guys go out and pass out tracts and 1 to 1's? because I would like to get like some events going to where we could get together and go witnessing, I was with GNN and they have all those Evangelism Boot Camps, that realy just help to get together with other seed sowers and pray and pass out tracts together at parades and Festivals and other Events. So if anyone has any ideas please let me know!

If you're going to do it like Kirk Cameron does, you can count me out.

Kirk: "Uh...hey, could I talk to you a minute about you're lost, damned soul? Please?"

Gang Member: "What, the? Huh?

Kirk: "Have you ever sinned?"

Gang Member: "Uh..yeah..probably all the time.."

Kirk: "Did you know that's 'bad'?

Gang Member: "Uh...yeah..I guess.."

Kirk: "Did you know that only one sin will send your dirty soul to the flames of hellfire?"

Gang Member: "What?"

Kirk: "Have you ever LUSTED for a girl?"

Gang Member: "You betcha!"

Kirk: "That's HELL buddy!"

Kirk: "Here have a track! Take a look at what my Fundamentalist 1611, Pretribulation Study Bible says about it!"

Gang Member: "Ok...I guess...

Kirk: "Do you believe in Jesus?"

Gange Member: "Yeah...I guess"

Kirk: "Then YOU'RE saved my friend!"

...off to next victim...be sure to get plenty of shots and dialogue for CBN..."



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Brian3
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WPARR... I think that when you tell DAVE to calm down and quit talking about The BAN Word! I would have to look back at all these recent posts and say you are trying to Ban yourself, You are the one who keeps bringing it up. But like I said take a look back on other topics and see what your buddy posted on all the other topics! First he never agreed..always tried to act like he knew best which he might know more Im not saying he dont but like YOU said this is a discussion Board. Like in an earlier post he said in a post you just need a HOT GIRL FRIEND! What!!!!!! Talk about honoring God! WEll he not only disagrees with WOTM but goes against any teaching of Christ by telling someone to just go get a hot girl! But I dont even know Dave that well only by chatting a little and by what he stands for and I know Dave would like to see you stay on the board but I will have to say I side with Dave here! You can not change or twist scripture! WE do not compare ourselves to each other compare yourself to the scriptures! But again I am with Dave, so if your agianst WOTM then you gotta be missing something in the Word! Because it is to equip people to share there faith the way Jesus Did! They dont teach people to say what you like forget the holy spirit and whatever happens, happens! But what if every human on this Earth quit sharing the gospel right now! now that is no gospel going out! Is that what God asked? No! He said Go make deciples! But without the law and people sharing the gospel the way Jesus Did Then you would be a False prophet if you just made your own rules and your own teachings. So If you want your friend back on here to speak those words what kind of person would you be to allow it to continue? But you keep asking Dave whats the matter with him?????????? I love you brother and I know you Love us! Or I would like to think so anyway. But here just like Dave said if it doesnt line up with the word then get Rid of it!

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wparr
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quote:
Originally posted by David:

Seems you are missing a lot. Read and study your bible and know the truth. You can not be saved if you do not know Jesus Christ. And when you do come to know Him, you will know the truth.

I DO read the Scriptures and I DO KNOW Y'shua (Jesus) as my Messiah event though YOU say I don't.

I THANK GOD that HE is the judge of my salvation and not a religious, pridefilled, judgemental, arogant person like you.

How DARE you say I don't knoe Jesus - just because I disagree with you.

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wparr
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Show me WHERE I have "faslely taught"

Dave, what's happened to you?

You've goteen to pridefilled.

Salvation is NOT based on liking the ministries you do.

That's man-made LEGALISM - SIN

It's people acting in such fleshly judgemental ways like you (you can show NO NO NO Scriptural basis for one not being saved because of a dislike for a particular ministry)that make me want to give up on "church"

If you really think I'm a false teacher - this is YOUR board (not God's obviously) then good bye- you can keep it.

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KnowHim
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>>>> Unless I'm missing something here (which if I am, I'll apologize)

Seems you are missing a lot. Read and study your bible and know the truth. You can not be saved if you do not know Jesus Christ. And when you do come to know Him, you will know the truth.

>>>> Dave questioned frater_nothing's (and thus also MINE) salvation because of not liking Kirt's methodology to evangelisum that he's teaching others.

I say nothing about Kirt. I do not threaten to ban people I do when they are teaching falsely.

>>> Then was threatened with being banned if he continued to do so (and thus I was in danger also)

Yes you are.


>>> Then when frater_nothing in turn questioned Dave's salvation (AFTER Dave first questioned his) and SCRIPTURALLY explained his dislike for Kirl's ministry. Dave banned him.

Very true. We are out to teach the truth here, not what people make up and just want to hear.

>>> Is there something more that I'm missing - If not than this is flat out WRONG.

Seems you are missing a lot. Read the whole bible and don’t take it out of context. Seek Jesus Christ and ask for the power of the Holy Spirit to understand the word of God the bible.

>>> Questioning one's salvation is a SERIOUS matter - one better be VERY CAREFUL in judging the heart.

One is fine if they judge by the standards of the bible, it is when you add your man made rules and your opinions is when one should not judge. And if you are saved one does not get worry about their salvation because of what someone else says, unless they are not sure.

>>> And to do so JUST because one doesn't like a particular ministry.

If a ministry is teaching the truth of the bible then I like and support it. But if they are teaching the truth of the bible plus what every they like to add, then don’t bring it on this message board.

>>> Basicly what we both said we agree with and LIKE street ministries and witnessing - as long as it is done by the leading of The Holy Spirit - and not some LEARNED TECHNIQUE, which is of the flesh, the worlds way of doing so.

You have not watched Way of the Master long enough to even know they are not teaching a technique. They are always saying to do this the way the Holy Spirit leads you. But they do teach you to witness the way JESUS did and not the way the feel good people are doing. If you go out and witness by trying to deceive people and not share the truth of the word of God you have done a lot more harm then good.

>>> And to question if I'm a true Christian because I hold that opinion - what form of Christianity are you promoting? A very narrow, legalistic, NONScriptural one.

If you are a born-again follower of Jesus Christ, then you will know. Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life and NO ONE comes to the Father but by me. That is NARROW and it will not change because man wants to add their own man made gospel to it.

>>> Maybe on the registration page Dave ought to put
"Negative comments about the following ministries and people are NOT allowed and will result in being banned" then list His particular favorite ministries.

No I will tell you like I just did and if you want to continue with your false teaching then you are more then welcome to ban yourself before I have to. You are welcome to be on this message board, but you are not welcome to bash true born-again believer just because you don’t like them teaching the truth.

PERIOD!


quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
Unless I'm missing something here (which if I am, I'll apologize)

Dave questioned frater_nothing's (and thus also MINE) salvation because of not liking Kirt's methodology to evangelisum that he's teaching others.

Then was threatened with being banned if he continued to do so (and thus I was in danger also)

Then when frater_nothing in turn questioned Dave's salvation (AFTER Dave first questioned his) and SCRIPTURALLY explained his dislike for Kirl's ministry. Dave banned him.

Is there something more that I'm missing - If not than this is flat out WRONG.

Questioning one's salvation is a SERIOUS matter - one better be VERY CAREFUL in judging the heart.

And to do so JUST because one doesn't like a particular ministry.

Basicly what we both said we agree with and LIKE street ministries and witnessing - as long as it is done by the leading of The Holy Spirit - and not some LEARNED TECHNIQUE, which is of the flesh, the worlds way of doing so.

And to question if I'm a true Christian because I hold that opinion - what form of Christianity are you promoting? A very narrow, legalistic, NONScriptural one.


Maybe on the registration page Dave ought to put
"Negative comments about the following ministries and people are NOT allowed and will result in being banned" then list His particular favorite ministries.


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wparr
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I know I said I would ban myself and leave (and I'm sure some are quietly wishing I'll just shut up and leave)

But I'm hanging on for 2 possible senerios

1.
That I'm missing a big peice of what was going on with frater_nothing being banned - to which I will apologize.

2.
That Dave looks past pride and flesh (which we ALL struggle with) and admitts he erred and invites frater_nothing back.

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KnowHim
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>>>> If not liking Way of the Master because of their teaching a reliance on a technique rather than a reliance on The Holy Spirit
calls into question one's salvation
and brings one close to being banned

First of all you are WRONG. Way of the Master does not teach a technique rather then reliance on the Holy Spirit. It teaches the truth of the bible and they know it is all about the conviction of the Holy Spirit. But without the truth, preaching the lies of the modern day Institutional Church feel good gospel will only send people to hell.

>> Then I'll just do you favor Dave and ban myself

That would be fine, will same me having to do it.

>> I am SHOCKED at your post Dave

Good I hope it helps you wake up and know the truth.

>>> There has been LOTS of debate and critisism of different ministries and teachers on this bbs in the past - and you have aloowed it.

VERY TRUE, that is because it was about false teachings such as the Word of Faith and Prosperity Gospel lies.

>>> But when it comes to a ministry you personally like (I use to like it till I started doing alot of examing of flesh works and Holy Spirit led works)
Then you call into question one's salvation
And start useing the "ban" word.

AMEN, you start teaching the modern day Institutional Church feel good gospel on this message board and you will be banned. These lies are send people to hell daily.

>>> Where is your focus?

Jesus Christ!


quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
If not liking Way of the Master because of their teaching a reliance on a technique rather than a reliance on The Holy Spirit
calls into question one's salvation
and brings one close to being banned

Then I'll just do you favor Dave and ban myself

But a word before I depart.

I am SHOCKED at your post Dave

There has been LOTS of debate and critisism of different ministries and teachers on this bbs in the past - and you have aloowed it.

But when it comes to a ministry you personally like (I use to like it till I started doing alot of examing of flesh works and Holy Spirit led works)
Then you call into question one's salvation
And start useing the "ban" word.

SHAME ON YOU

Where is your focus?


frater_nothing

I've enjoyed your posts - to bad we didn't have more time to get to know one another



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wparr
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Unless I'm missing something here (which if I am, I'll apologize)

Dave questioned frater_nothing's (and thus also MINE) salvation because of not liking Kirt's methodology to evangelisum that he's teaching others.

Then was threatened with being banned if he continued to do so (and thus I was in danger also)

Then when frater_nothing in turn questioned Dave's salvation (AFTER Dave first questioned his) and SCRIPTURALLY explained his dislike for Kirl's ministry. Dave banned him.

Is there something more that I'm missing - If not than this is flat out WRONG.

Questioning one's salvation is a SERIOUS matter - one better be VERY CAREFUL in judging the heart.

And to do so JUST because one doesn't like a particular ministry.

Basicly what we both said we agree with and LIKE street ministries and witnessing - as long as it is done by the leading of The Holy Spirit - and not some LEARNED TECHNIQUE, which is of the flesh, the worlds way of doing so.

And to question if I'm a true Christian because I hold that opinion - what form of Christianity are you promoting? A very narrow, legalistic, NONScriptural one.


Maybe on the registration page Dave ought to put
"Negative comments about the following ministries and people are NOT allowed and will result in being banned" then list His particular favorite ministries.

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Brian3
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WPARR this is crazy you cant say anything to DAVE because I know this is a Discussion Board you can say what you like but I personally dont think what the other guy posted was of God you can say what you have to say without being plain Rude! I mean I may not have liked what you posted but I let it go! I saw one way you saw another..So Ok we disagree. We all have different opinons we talked about it and that was that! I mean regaurdless if we dont see eye to eye I will never be rude to you and If I have been I will quickly apologize right now!!!! By the way I will tell you anyway I am SORRY and if I have offended you I am sorry for that as well. But this post has gotten way out of hand! Like I said the post still stands to be Would anyone like to get together and pass out tracts! Thats all but to get this answer I would rather go alone because I dont see anything wrong with WOTM but that is just me! I know you dont agree so I know you want be attending! God Bless!

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I have been crucified with Christ,and I no longer live,but Christ lives in me. Galatians 2:20

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wparr
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quote:
Originally posted by David:
You have been banned. I do ask you to seek the truth. Open your eyes.

Dave YOU can question one's salvation - but if one does it ti you - you BAN them???

What PRIDE you've become filled with.

I always though this bbs was suppose to be about God - not YOU

So go ahead and ban me after all these years here.

PLEASE check your heart and motives.

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wparr
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If not liking Way of the Master because of their teaching a reliance on a technique rather than a reliance on The Holy Spirit
calls into question one's salvation
and brings one close to being banned

Then I'll just do you favor Dave and ban myself

But a word before I depart.

I am SHOCKED at your post Dave

There has been LOTS of debate and critisism of different ministries and teachers on this bbs in the past - and you have aloowed it.

But when it comes to a ministry you personally like (I use to like it till I started doing alot of examing of flesh works and Holy Spirit led works)
Then you call into question one's salvation
And start useing the "ban" word.

SHAME ON YOU

Where is your focus?


frater_nothing

I've enjoyed your posts - to bad we didn't have more time to get to know one another

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KnowHim
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You have been banned. I do ask you to seek the truth. Open your eyes.

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frater_nothing
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quote:
Originally posted by David:
frater_nothing,

You are getting real close to getting banned from this message board. If you don't like the way Way of the Master witnesses then you better check to see if you even know the Lord Yourself.

Watch out for the Modern Day Institutional Church who teaching the feel good gospel. They are sending people to hell by the truck loads.

Wake up and see that they are in this for what they can get out of it for themselves. They don't care if you really come to know Jesus Christ.

Don't not continue putting down one of the ministries that are actually trying to get people to come to know Jesus Christ and not trying rob them for their own gain.

As I stated you will be banned if you continue. But I beg you to wake up and actually get to know Jesus Christ, it will change your life and you will really love people and care if they are on their way to hell.


.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

If you DO like the way the Way of the Master witnesses than YOU had better read the Book of Acts to see if YOU even know the Lord.

I am for True OpenAir Preaching.

I am against False OpenAir Preaching.

Where, OH WHERE, in anything I have written thus far did you ever come to the conclusion that I am defending the Modern Institutional Church?

THE METHOD KIRK CAMERON USES CAME FROM THE MODERN INSTITUTIONAL CHURCH, YOU BLIND HYPOCRITE!!!

If you will ban me, then BAN ME! It isn't the first time, and it won't be the last!

For I assure you of this much, YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF ANYTHING I AM TALKING ABOUT!

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KnowHim
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frater_nothing,

You are getting real close to getting banned from this message board. If you don't like the way Way of the Master witnesses then you better check to see if you even know the Lord Yourself.

Watch out for the Modern Day Institutional Church who teaching the feel good gospel. They are sending people to hell by the truck loads.

Wake up and see that they are in this for what they can get out of it for themselves. They don't care if you really come to know Jesus Christ.

Don't not continue putting down one of the ministries that are actually trying to get people to come to know Jesus Christ and not trying rob them for their own gain.

As I stated you will be banned if you continue. But I beg you to wake up and actually get to know Jesus Christ, it will change your life and you will really love people and care if they are on their way to hell.


.

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frater_nothing
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I do not feel one iota of remorse for being in open rebuke of Kirk Cameron.

I take the rebuke even further, however. I am not only claiming that his teaching is void of Spirit, I'm claiming it is even void of Truth.

I hear Fundamentalists pride themselves on the elements of the gospel -- the 'foursquare gospel truth' or some such thing.

I am claiming that Kirk Cameron and all those like him are not even teaching the fundamental elements of the faith of Christ.

Compare: "Believe in Jesus, say this short prayer in your heart, and everything's grooy cool," to the evangelistic teachings found in the Gospels and in Acts.

If you think that are the same, then you are a blind, deceived person.

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Brian3
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Ok! Thanks for the posts you have given. I Love you Brother..and I hope you have a great day! God Bless.

--------------------
I have been crucified with Christ,and I no longer live,but Christ lives in me. Galatians 2:20

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wparr
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If you read all I said, it wasn't JUST criticism of Kirk's techniques teaching.

but

How I saw the way to do it.


LISTEN to The Holy Spirit in each encounter HE sets up.

HE will give the words and verses to touch the person HE is already working in.

Seek The Holy Spirit for those Divine Appointments with people He is working in.

It's like walking thru a stream of people and walking up to a particular person, and giving them what they need to hear, so that they KNOW it's God answering their cry.


PLEASE don't hear me wrong, I'm NOT saying you don't do it by The Power of The Holy Spirit - I don't know you to say that - but most people DON'T.

Instead, by the power of the flesh, they go practice a technique they learned in some "effective" evangelisum class - and repeat the process, and say the words they learned.

Then as they get more experience, they get more confident in their fleshly ability to do it
"Yes I can do this, it's easy now"

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Brian3
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Feel Free to preach on like I said I have no hard feelings anywhere say what you like! I have no problem discussing anything that is what the board is for but sometimes you just have to drop things! you see one way others see another way! But the post still stands and started as who wants to get together and share the Gospel! So do you want to go with that or continue to discuss Kirk Cameron!!!!

--------------------
I have been crucified with Christ,and I no longer live,but Christ lives in me. Galatians 2:20

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wparr
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So we should just say

"I Agree"

or

"I Disagree"

WITHOUT giving reasons?


Isn't this a DISCUSSION board???

And if one doesn't like the discussion - they are FREE to drop out at ANY time.

But unless something WRONG is taking place, don't tell others to drop it.

But then you are a Moderator - you have the ability to lock the topic at any time.

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Brian3
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Not Bashing At all Just saying that if you dont like Kirk then move on! we dont need to write a book on what you like and dislike about his ministry! I can tell you straight up I care for all on this board but sometimes these issues go a little to far! I mean you either agree or disagree! no big deal! God Bless You have a great night!

--------------------
I have been crucified with Christ,and I no longer live,but Christ lives in me. Galatians 2:20

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wparr
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian3:
You guys do a great Job putting down other ministries! God really must have given you the answers to everything! WE are one Body many Branches no-one said you had to work for Kirk or Ray the topic started out trying to get ideas for street ministry and events lined up! Not bashing others and there ministries! And if you say you havent then look back at the other posts! If you are so worried about Kirk Cameron then you get out there and promote the right answer the Bible says the Law is Perfect in converting the Soul!PSALMS 19:7 They use the law and people understand afterwards that we all sin and we are in need of god Daily! If you dont know your infected! which is Sin! Then your not looking for a cure! Because if you just try to explain the gospel they turn you off because 1 Corinthians 1:18 says The message of the cross is foolishness to those perishing. So you What? You go another way use the LAW! ROMANS 7:7 SAYS I WOULD NOT HAVE KNOWN SIN........EXCEPT THROUGH THE LAW!!!!

Sorry you can't see thru your anger to understand what we are saying.

I've told you the SPECIFICS as to what I don't agree with.

Trying to do ministry in the FLESH (using a learned technique) is NOT Yahweh's way.

What did Y'shua tell the apostles before He asended.

WAIT on the dunamis (ability to DO) power of The Holy Spirit.

Also what is the Great Commision that Y'shua gave us?

Matthew 28:19-20
(19) "Go therefore and make DISCIPLES (not converts) of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
(20) teaching them to observe ALL that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."


What IS salvation - saying a little prayer after someone makes you feel guilty?

John 17:3
(3) "And THIS is eternal life, that they may KNOW You, the only true God, and Yeshua the Messiah Whom You have sent.


What those type of "evangelism techniques" programs leave out is DISCIPLESHIP and teaching an INTIMATE KNOWING of Yahweh


And aren't you "bashing" us as you acuse US of doing to KirK???

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Brian3
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You guys do a great Job putting down other ministries! God really must have given you the answers to everything! WE are one Body many Branches no-one said you had to work for Kirk or Ray the topic started out trying to get ideas for street ministry and events lined up! Not bashing others and there ministries! And if you say you havent then look back at the other posts! If you are so worried about Kirk Cameron then you get out there and promote the right answer the Bible says the Law is Perfect in converting the Soul!PSALMS 19:7 They use the law and people understand afterwards that we all sin and we are in need of god Daily! If you dont know your infected! which is Sin! Then your not looking for a cure! Because if you just try to explain the gospel they turn you off because 1 Corinthians 1:18 says The message of the cross is foolishness to those perishing. So you What? You go another way use the LAW! ROMANS 7:7 SAYS I WOULD NOT HAVE KNOWN SIN........EXCEPT THROUGH THE LAW!!!!

--------------------
I have been crucified with Christ,and I no longer live,but Christ lives in me. Galatians 2:20

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quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
quote:
Originally posted by frater_nothing:
I say this in Apape.

This might hurt people's feelings and annoy them.

But when I see people teaching and preaching like Kirk Cameron, it hurts my feelings and annoys me.

I'd rather have one like Paul than a million like Kirk Cameron.

That's just the sort of cornball teaching that fuzzy Evangelical fundies just eat up like candy.

It's trite teaching.

It makes the evangelia of Xpristos seem trite and easy.

It isn't.

If we are going to teach the evangelia, then it's time to get a reality check.

Truth DOES anoy people - ESPECIALLY Christians who want to hold dearly to their man-made traditions / doctrines / practices.

Kirk and The Way of the "Master" teaches a TECHNIQUE - a PROCEDURE
It is TOTALY void of relying on The Holy Spirit to lead and operate.
It is operating out of the flesh

Yahweh is NOT about techniquesz.

I agree with your words.

I've been trying to figure out for a while why I am so annoyed at Kirk's method.

It does seem trite, it does seem shallow, but I think you're right -- it's the technique.

I call this 'canned preaching'.

If the church is not out in the streets, and we are only left with the canned preaching of The Way Ministries, then folks, we are in more trouble than you can possibly imagine.

Is this really the spirit in which Xristianity came to the world?

Is this really the Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory?

Kirk 'shames' people into belief. It reminds me of how one 'leads' a 5 year old to confesses that he made a 'boo-boo'.

Xristos did not shame people or lead people according to this spirit.

I agree, The Way is trusting in technique. That's a good way to state it.

I see little discernment of spirits, and grace for the need of the moment.

Jude tells us to have compassion on some who doubt, and to save others with fear.

Remember the words of Solomon in Proverbs -- "He who wins souls must be wise."

Once again, the church needs a reality check - and a stern rebuke.

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wparr
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YES I did read what you said about my ministry - and thank you - I only brought it up because of your comment about sitting on the side lines.

But I'm sorry that you can't even to begin to understand what I'm trying to get across.

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TEXASGRANDMA
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I am too old to argue with you, so I am walking away from this subject.
betty
Obviously, you did not read my reply correctly either, or you would have seen I did compliment you on your ministry.

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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wparr
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Betty, did you READ what I said????

And I am NOT, "tearing down his ministry"

I am talking about what he is TEACHING, not his doing.

Critisizing and pointing out what I see as SCRIPTURALLY wrong is NOT "tearing down" so STOP overstating.

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TEXASGRANDMA
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My friend, just as you defended your ministry, and rightfully so, we should lift up the ministry of Kirk and stopped tearing down his ministry. Just as God loves you, He loves Kirk, too. Truth be known, it takes more courage for someone in the limelight like Kirk to get out on the street and talk to people one and one on about Jesus. In the past I have prayed for your ministry, I don’t think it is too much to ask us to pray for Kirk’s ministry.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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wparr
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Betty - SHAME on you.
You should know that I'm NOT a "sit on the sidelines"
I volunteered for 4 years as a truck stop chaplain, ministering to not just truck drivers - but the homeless and street people also.

So yes Brian3, I HAVE been on the streets.

I really think most people don't read what is posted but quickly respond to what they THINK the person is saying.

Go back and S L O W L Y read what I said.

I'm talking about what Kirk is TEACHING people to do.

He's teaching them a technique for evangelisum, rather than teaching people to LISTEN to the Holy Spirit's leading in each situation.

People learn and copy Kirk - rather than LISTENING to The Holy Spirit.

Evangelisum isn't something you LEARN from other people.

TRUE one-on-one or street evangelisum comes from a LISTENING to The Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit KNOWS the person's heart you are trying to reach out to.

If you ask and LISTEN, The Holy Spirit will give you the words and Scriptures that will PERSONALLY touch the person.


Look at Phillip in The Book of Acts.

Acts 8:26-29
(26) But an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip saying, "Get up and go south to the road that descends from Jerusalem to Gaza." (This is a desert road.)
(27) So he got up and went; and there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship,
(28) and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah.
(29) Then the Spirit said to Philip, "Go up and join this chariot."


The Holy Spirit KNEW the need and heart of the Ethiopian eunuch.

The Holy Spirit PERSONALLY spoke to Philip and told him where to go and what to do.

The Holy Spirit STILL works thru WILLING, SUBMISSIVE, LISTENING people today.


If you can't understand what I'm saying, I'm SORRY, and there is no need to continue the discussion.

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TEXASGRANDMA
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Brian,

How are you doing? How is your wife? You both have been in my thoughts and prayers.
As far as Kirk, there those who do God's Work and others who sit on the sidelines and tear down God's Work.
You and I shall pray God's blessing on Kirk and the Work God is doing through his ministry.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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Brian3
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I think if you want to put people down then you should go into the streets and see for yourself! A person has to recognize they have a sickness before they can get the Cure! Kirk And Ray Comfort are very Godly Men, They never put people down they want you to see that we are all the same, we are sinners and we need God Daily but everyone thinks you can live like Hell and still go to Heaven! If your not aware of the law how then can you be set free because without the law we can do anything!.....Ahhh NO! Most people can name 10 beers but 2 commandments. But for you to say Kirk is wrong... Well you need to look a little further into this ministry. Way Of The Master and Living Waters uses the Law and That is what Ray and Kirk Uses so you need to look in scriptures and find out if the law is usefull and is what they teach usefull and the only way to get someone to see that they are not as good as they think they are you USE THE LAW! Because we all fall short! Then comes the good news...Jesus paid it all you can be set free! your choice!!!! But I have to side with Ray and Kirk!

--------------------
I have been crucified with Christ,and I no longer live,but Christ lives in me. Galatians 2:20

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wparr
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I pray that he would start teaching people to following the leading of The Holy Spirit rather than teaching them how to to a technique which is fleshy.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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We can shine God's love with both. In fact I do better talkig with those I know personally. I am not very good with stangers. But, I do respect people who have the guts to wittness to stangers.
There is something about stangers. Sometimes, people can talk about things with strangers that they can't talk about with family. I remember years ago at the drug store, a lady I had never seen before and haven't seen since, told me things that she would never tell anyone she knew, because she felt safe with me because I was a stanger. This is an opportuinity to talk to a person about God who is a stanger. I remember telling her I would pray for her but that is all that I remember because it was so very long ago. But, I do know that sometimes, God opens a door for us to wittness to others.
Maybe you and I are not called to wittness like Kirk, but we can pray for his ministry.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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wparr
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It amazes me how so many Christians want to go "witness" to strangers and give them tracks (not saying that it is wrong to do so)

Yet aren't very concerned about their witness (how they live out {or don't live out} the Gospel of Y'shua)to their neighbors and co-workers - the people they come into contact with in their day-to-day living.

We are given opportunities EVERYDAY.

What's the problem - are we afraid that our living doesn't match up with our proclaiming maybe?

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TEXASGRANDMA
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I would not even try to say what is on Kirk's heart. How can anyone suggest that Kirk does not relay on the Holy Spirit? Are you with him, when he gets up in the morning and prays that God will lead him to speak to the right person? It is one thing to judge the fruit of a tree, but quite another to judge whether Kirk is trusting God to lead him as he witnesses. Instead of tearing down a Brother in Christ, you should pray that God would bless the ministry of Kirk. When we get to Heaven and God rewards Kirk for the many, he has led to Christ; He will be rewarded for his faithfulness. For now, I will pray God’s blessing on the work Kirk is doing for Christ.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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wparr
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quote:
Originally posted by frater_nothing:
I say this in Apape.

This might hurt people's feelings and annoy them.

But when I see people teaching and preaching like Kirk Cameron, it hurts my feelings and annoys me.

I'd rather have one like Paul than a million like Kirk Cameron.

That's just the sort of cornball teaching that fuzzy Evangelical fundies just eat up like candy.

It's trite teaching.

It makes the evangelia of Xpristos seem trite and easy.

It isn't.

If we are going to teach the evangelia, then it's time to get a reality check.

Truth DOES anoy people - ESPECIALLY Christians who want to hold dearly to their man-made traditions / doctrines / practices.

Kirk and The Way of the "Master" teaches a TECHNIQUE - a PROCEDURE
It is TOTALY void of relying on The Holy Spirit to lead and operate.
It is operating out of the flesh

Yahweh is NOT about techniquesz.

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TEXASGRANDMA
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Kirk goes out into the streets and reaches people that no Church will ever see. He is not about teaching the Bible Studies, as much as he about sharing the Good News of Jesus Christ. He is not taking the place of a Church but getting people to think enough about eternity that they are willing to go into the Church. Yes, we need great teachers like Paul but we also need someone to wet the appetite of people so they will go to a Church.
I have a hard time with some how who tears down Kirk, because he is doing God’s work and talking to people that many of us are afraid to even speak to. Instead of tearing up a fellow Christian for doing God’s Work we should be lifting them up in prayer.
As far as Paul, he annoyed people many times. After all he ended up in prison for annoying people. Paul was not afraid to get in someone’s face and speak the truth and neither is Kirk.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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frater_nothing
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frater_nothing
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I say this in Apape.

This might hurt people's feelings and annoy them.

But when I see people teaching and preaching like Kirk Cameron, it hurts my feelings and annoys me.

I'd rather have one like Paul than a million like Kirk Cameron.

That's just the sort of cornball teaching that fuzzy Evangelical fundies just eat up like candy.

It's trite teaching.

It makes the evangelia of Xpristos seem trite and easy.

It isn't.

If we are going to teach the evangelia, then it's time to get a reality check.

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TEXASGRANDMA
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you are being mean. Kirk has done alot of wonderful work for God. He puts himself out there for people because he loves people and doesn't want anyone to go to hell.
betty

P.S.
Brian,
In answer to your qustion, I am not good at speaking one on one to people, but we have put together care packages with food for the homeless and it them we have Christian tracts on how to get saved.

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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frater_nothing
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian3:
Hey do any of you guys go out and pass out tracts and 1 to 1's? because I would like to get like some events going to where we could get together and go witnessing, I was with GNN and they have all those Evangelism Boot Camps, that realy just help to get together with other seed sowers and pray and pass out tracts together at parades and Festivals and other Events. So if anyone has any ideas please let me know!

If you're going to do it like Kirk Cameron does, you can count me out.

Kirk: "Uh...hey, could I talk to you a minute about you're lost, damned soul? Please?"

Gang Member: "What, the? Huh?

Kirk: "Have you ever sinned?"

Gang Member: "Uh..yeah..probably all the time.."

Kirk: "Did you know that's 'bad'?

Gang Member: "Uh...yeah..I guess.."

Kirk: "Did you know that only one sin will send your dirty soul to the flames of hellfire?"

Gang Member: "What?"

Kirk: "Have you ever LUSTED for a girl?"

Gang Member: "You betcha!"

Kirk: "That's HELL buddy!"

Kirk: "Here have a track! Take a look at what my Fundamentalist 1611, Pretribulation Study Bible says about it!"

Gang Member: "Ok...I guess...

Kirk: "Do you believe in Jesus?"

Gange Member: "Yeah...I guess"

Kirk: "Then YOU'RE saved my friend!"

...off to next victim...be sure to get plenty of shots and dialogue for CBN..."

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Brian3
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Hey do any of you guys go out and pass out tracts and 1 to 1's? because I would like to get like some events going to where we could get together and go witnessing, I was with GNN and they have all those Evangelism Boot Camps, that realy just help to get together with other seed sowers and pray and pass out tracts together at parades and Festivals and other Events. So if anyone has any ideas please let me know!

--------------------
I have been crucified with Christ,and I no longer live,but Christ lives in me. Galatians 2:20

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