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Topic: No Offense
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phebe_cenchrea
Community Member
Member # 5659
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace
I need this to-day. Many of you on this Board have said that you don't put down the messenger, but the message. Let's get past pre-conceived ideas about the messenger and learn a very important spiritual lesson -
In his epistle, James outlines a code of conduct for those who would serve as evangelists.
quote:
My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. For in many things we offend all.
If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
(~James 3:1-2 KJV)
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
(~James 3:13 KJV)
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
(~James 3:17-18 KJV)
The parable that Jesus told about the seeds is not about spreading the gospel--it is about receiving the word. And yes, it is true the Spirit is not offended; but as an evangelist that is only one half of the concern. The other responsibility is one of not offending anyone. The truth does often offend people--but if it is truth it will not turn them away from God, but instead is the catalyst that brings a soul closer to God, face to face without the dangerous veil of self-deception. And even when it becomes necessary to dig down to those raw truths that are the hardest to face, one that serves under the true grace of God's love will be able to facilitate the process--not by force, but by lending strength in the form of unconditional, nonjudgmental love.
In the passage from John 1 that was cited, the import is no different that from what James wrote.
quote:
He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
(~1 John 2:10 KJV)
The Greek word translated to the phrase 'occasion of stumbling' is skandalon. This is not offend as in 'insult' or 'hurt another's feelings' or even 'be misunderstood when speaking the truth plainly.' It is used throughout the NT in representing the concept of 'stumbling block,' a trap stick, a snare: to offend is to be, somehow, involved in another's occasion to fall, or sin.
John is not saying that one who loves his brother does not get offended, but rather that he who loves his brother gives his brother no occasion to stumble or fall in their walk.
There's no doubt that the opportunities to stumble abound in each of our paths--some are set there by God for the purpose of our ultimately gaining wisdom--some are set there by the accuser (indirectly this is God, too). But those that we set for one another are the only ones that are not productive and are to be avoided at all costs.
Paul instructs us on this, as does Peter, James, Jude, and John. Regardless of what specifically happens in each case, if someone is offended by our words, all we can righteously do is examine ourselves for shortcomings and then take care that it doesn't happen again. No blame, whatsoever, should ever be placed on another--we are to serve, not condemn or fault-find, those who sit at the LORD's table.
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Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
(~Luke 12:32)
Posts: 9 | Registered: Apr 2006
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Well I fully agree that offence is not of God. (in the sense of brother being offended by brother)I read a book once called Offence: The bait of Satan that was excellent. and talked about how the enmy uses offence to get us out of the Spirit and into the flesh, where Satan has authority.
This is so true.
The Bible is full of scriptures showing the importanct of keeping the roots fertilized with the living waters of the Holy Spirt.
This is a beautiful passage -
Col. 2:7 Let your roots grow down into him and draw up nourishment from him, so you will grow in faith, strong and vigorous in the truth you were taught. Let your lives overflow with thanksgiving for all he has done.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
NO ROOT - NO FRUIT!
Yes, the Christian in Mark 4:17 still has carnality in their heart, and are in danger of falling away.
Mark 4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
Oh course HisGrace, it was baby Christians who had not root in them that fell away; baby Christians ... new creatures in Christ, born of th spirit of God, indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit unto redemption, and they having no root in them withered and died amidst persecution because they were offended.
See, that God is not my God. My God is author and finisher of faith. When My GOD causes one to be born again of the Spirit of GOD and HE comes to set down roots and ABIDE in the one who was a sinner... nothing can make them wither cause nothing can make the one abiding in them to wither... MY GOD finishes what HE begins, but he begins it in the fleshy soil of the heart not on the ROCKS in the head that keep the seed from getting down into the heart.
I am the vine.. ye are the branch, said JESUS.
If Jesus is the vine then you can bet there are roots cause HE aint gonna be moved by persecution and neither those that abide in him as branches.
NO ROOT - NO FRUIT!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
HisGrace!!! You must be kidding me???
quote:
It is obvious that he is bang on when he says that some immature Christians will hear the word and when a little bit of persecuation comes along the devil is able to discourage such believers. They stumble and are easily intimated by the devil, because their roots haven't gone down deep enough into spiritual soil.
In affect they become easily offended and the plug has been pulled from their peace and victory.
His Grace, without the root, there is no Christian. The word that is sown in the soil of man's heart is the power unto salvation, but it must establish root... that GOD abide in you and you in HIM. This parable is not about mature or immature Christians, it is about the power of the sown word unto salvation!!!
Let's put Mark 4 in its full context.
Mark 4:13-20 Then Jesus said to them, "Don't you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? The farmer sows the word. Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them.
Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and AT ONCE RECEIVE IT WITH JOY. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.
~Naturally if baby/immature Christians don't water the plant to develop roots, the plant is going to wither and die.
Notice how it says that some hear the word, but they allow Satan to take it away by not accepting it.
Others accept the word and allow the seed to be planted in their hearts, but they don't water and take care of the plant by easily getting offended and thus fall away. To fall away, you have to be somewhere to fall away from - being a believer.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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HisGrace!!! You must be kidding me???
quote:
It is obvious that he is bang on when he says that some immature Christians will hear the word and when a little bit of persecuation comes along the devil is able to discourage such believers. They stumble and are easily intimated by the devil, because their roots haven't gone down deep enough into spiritual soil.
In affect they become easily offended and the plug has been pulled from their peace and victory.
His Grace, without the root, there is no Christian. The word that is sown in the soil of man's heart is the power unto salvation, but it must establish root... that GOD abide in you and you in HIM. This parable is not about mature or immature Christians, it is about the power of the sown word unto salvation!!!
Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Hebrews 6:6 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
This is not an immature christian HisGrace, it is a damned soul....
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
Mark 4:17 tells us the devil uses those kinds of offenses to steal the Word from our hearts. He causes us to get crosswise with each other. Then he's able to pull the plug right out of us and drain the Word like water from a bucket.
Let's take a look at Mark 4:17 and study the great analogy that has been made.
Mark 4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
It is obvious that he is bang on when he says that some immature Christians will hear the word and when a little bit of persecuation comes along the devil is able to discourage such believers. They stumble and are easily intimated by the devil, because their roots haven't gone down deep enough into spiritual soil.
In affect they become easily offended and the plug has been pulled from their peace and victory.
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Pleasemaranatha
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Member # 5150
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posted
Dear Yahsway and HFHS,
Prov. 18: 14
The spirit of a man can endure sickness; his sickness. But a broken spirit who can bear?
I am so sorry for you both with your pain. It hurts so terribly much and I have felt helpless or without hope many times myself. I felt broken inside with so much pain that I didn't think I could go on. But, God was there to help me stay strong in Him.
Of course, we have to say what is true to our children and all. I understand exactly what you both are saying. The love for your children bounces off this page. I pray for their ears to be opened to the truth and for them to understand how much you both love them. In Jesus Name Amen
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My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning. Psalms 130 verse 6
Joyce
Posts: 308 | From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2005
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
quote:
I hear over and over again that God accepts us just like we are. I know scripture says "and while we were yet sinners Christ Jesus died for us." But He died to set us free from our sins. And the key word in that scripture is "WERE",
Yes, and he died and arose to reconcile us to the life of God, not for him to come into our lives and wallow in the filth eith us, but to bring us into HIS life and that is a HOLY life, and there is no homosexuality in God's life, nor sin of any kind, there is neither any fellowship with darkness as I have tried to teach my daughter as demonstrated here: 1 Corinthians 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
They are deceived and that is why we offend them.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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yahsway
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Thanks so much HFHS for your encouragement and love for the truth!
I hear over and over again that God accepts us just like we are. I know scripture says "and while we were yet sinners Christ Jesus died for us." But He died to set us free from our sins. And the key word in that scripture is "WERE",
While we WERE yet sinners, Christ died for us.
The truth will set us free. I have to keep telling my daughter the truth. This is not being judgemental, Im trying to pull her out from the fire. I pray that one day she will be given the ears to Hear. But until then, I will not keep silent.
James 5:19-20
Brethen, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
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God Bless you sister Yahsway.
2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
But remember, HE will leave the 99 to go after to one and HE will bring back even an ear or a leg, if that is what is left, but he will not leave it with the devourer.
Amos 3:12 Thus saith the LORD; As the shepherd taketh out of the mouth of the lion two legs, or a piece of an ear; so shall the children of Israel be taken out that dwell in Samaria in the corner of a bed, and in Damascus in a couch.
God gave your daughter an praying mother who is strong in the scripture and in faith and in HIS love! God did this for a reason.
I know how hard it is to stand as you are standing with your daughter. I have the same stand with my oldest who is now unequally yoked and also thiks that God is mocked. Praise God for HE is our strength! It would not be loving toward your daughter to do any less than you are doing. We will continue in faith an trust God that they shall one day know that they were loved. Amen! ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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yahsway
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HisGrace, I can only speak for myself, but I have no "pre-concieved" ideas about any of the "messangers" we have spoken of. You know why? Because I have heard some of them preach. And some of their messages are not scriptual. period.
I would not hesitate or have any problem with telling any of the preachers we have talked about here that some of what they preach is unscriptul. And yes, I believe it can be done with love and respect for that person, but will that person Hear it?
You know, offenses will come. Jesus said so. Not everyone who has ought with his brother has fallen into failure or sin. There are genuine concerns about where the church is headed today.
There are genuine and ligit concerns on what some preachers are preaching/teaching from the pulpits.
Do you agree that Jesus the Christs spirit had to also "die spiritually" as to save us from our sins and if we do not believe that, we are not saved? This is being preached today.
Do you believe that we can name and claim anything we want just by "speaking it into exsitence?" This is being preached today.
Do you believe that there are 3 Gods each having 3 spirits? This is being preached today.
Do you believe that just anyone could have shed their blood on the cross, but it was the spiritual death of Jesus that saved us? This is being taught today.
and the list goes on and on. If I hear it, and it does not line up with scripture, is there something wrong with saying "Hey wait just one minute, what does scripture say? Is there something wrong with warning the brethern to weigh carefully what is being presented as the gospel today?
Again, it IS about the message, for it has to be. And no you can't have a Message unless there is a messanger, correct?
I am going to give everyone here n example of what Is going on in my life at the present time.
Some of you know that I have a daughter that is caught up in the homosexual lifestyle. She no longer lives with us (she is 20 now, off on her own). I raised her in the Assembly of God church. So she knows exactly where I stand on this issue.
She is now attending a church in Cookeville, TN that is predominately homosexuals. She constantly tells me that I have no love, that I am not tolerant, that this church teaches all the things she remembers being taught at te AG church with one exception. That being it is okay to be gay. That God made her that way, and that it is a sin on my part to rebuke her or correct her theology.
I just smile and tell her I love her and that she is being decieved, that God will not be mocked, and that she is headed for hell. I tell her that the message she is recieving is not scriptual and that the Messenger, her pastor is a false prophet. Oh yes, you maybe wondering what denomination they hold to. It is the United Churches of Christ. They also speak in tongues and sing the same worship songs we do. What a conterfiet!!! Do I pray for her? You bet I do!! Do I just pray and keep silent? Not on your life.
Do I take "offense" to what is being taught at her church? You bet I do. Is it a sin for me to take offense about her church and their teachings? NO!
The greatest sin would be for me personally just to tolerate it in the name of peace and love and to keep silent.
A lot of TV evangelist today would like for us to keep silent. But if their message does not line up with the Bible, then I say attack that MESSAGE.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Well I fully agree that offence is not of God. (in the sense of brother being offended by brother)I read a book once called Offence: The bait of Satan that was excellent. and talked about how the enmy uses offence to get us out of the Spirit and into the flesh, where Satan has authority.
I would say that the truth is always offensive to the carnal mind. That is why the Gospel is offensive and that is of God.
However, I do not agree with this use of Mark 4:17
quote:
Mark 4:17 tells us the devil uses those kinds of offenses to steal the Word from our hearts. He causes us to get crosswise with each other. Then he's able to pull the plug right out of us and drain the Word like water from a bucket.
The Bible does not teach that Satan can drain the word of God out of hearts like water. The parable of the Sower in Mark 4:17 states that the seed that was sown in this believer did not get down into the heart and establish roots, but sprouted only on the surface due to rocks and thus the plant had no roots, and having no roots could not stand.
This is important because If Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches, what is the root? The root is the Father God, and the indwelling sealing power of the HOLY Spirit.
The word in this man of Mark 4:17 had no roots in himself and thus when when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word’s sake, immediately they are offended.
Luke says they had no moisture... (water??)
Luke 8:6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Matthew says this:
Matthew 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Not in any of the Gospels does the Bible say this word was stolen by Satan, drained like water from the heart of the believer.
The word says STONES ... the word sprouted on the surface of stones, and did not get into the heart and establish roots in the heart and thus, there was nothing to sustain the plant and feed the plant... the plant withered and died.
The fruit of the Holy Spirit cannot be produced in us unless the Holy Spirit has established roots in our soil.
Satan could not uproot from your heart what God had rooted in if his life depended on it. Greater is HE that is in the born again child of God than he that is in the world. When God sets down roots in your heart, God is the source. That is why we are told to ABIDE in HIM and HE will ABIDE in us. And it is HE WHO ABIDES to the end that is saved!
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
No roots... no abiding.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Pleasemaranatha
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Prov.15:23 People enjoy giving good advice. Saying the right word at the right time is so pleasing. ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
That was great advice and wise teachings.
thanks ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning. Psalms 130 verse 6
Joyce
Posts: 308 | From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2005
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HisGrace
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I need this to-day. Many of you on this Board have said that you don't put down the messenger, but the message. Let's get past pre-conceived ideas about the messenger and learn a very important spiritual lesson -
He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.–(1 John 2:10)
"Whenever you find yourself stumbling into failure or sin, check your love life. Sit down with the Lord and ask Him to show you if you're in strife with anyone or if you've taken offense. If you have, the devil can come in and trip you up.
As a preacher, I've seen that happen countless times. I'll be preaching about something and some believer will get upset with me about it. He'll decide I'm wrong and go off in a huff--and first thing you know, he's in trouble.
Mark 4:17 tells us the devil uses those kinds of offenses to steal the Word from our hearts. He causes us to get crosswise with each other. Then he's able to pull the plug right out of us and drain the Word like water from a bucket.
Don't ever let that happen to you. If you hear a preacher or another believer saying something that rubs you the wrong way and you catch yourself getting offended say, "Oh no you don't. You're not stealing the Word out of me, you lying devil." Then get right down on your knees and repent before God.
Search the Word and listen to the Spirit within you and find out what you should do. If you still feel what that person said to you was wrong, pray for him.
Remember, taking offense never comes from God. He says we're to be rooted and grounded in love. So reject those feelings of offense. Give yourself to that person in love and in prayer. You'll be able to walk right on through that situation without ever stumbling at all."
Scripture Reading: 1 John 2:1-11
Copyright © 1997-2006
Eagle Mountain International Church, Incorporated, aka Kenneth Copeland Ministries
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