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*exbate*
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Hello there


has anyone wonndered if God chose us or did we chose God.

i know its a philisothical question buut i would like to know peoples oppinions.

many thanka

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KnowHim
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God chose us!

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

The Bible teaches He draws everyone to Him through the hearing of the Gospel - that means that not all are saved, but that all are being drawn.


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Found in Him
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Jesus said..
"You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you. I have appointed you to go and produce fruit that will last, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he will give it to you" (John 15:16)

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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*exbate*
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thats my point though "but that all are being drawn." we are all drawn and we get to chose wether we have a relationship with the hevenly father or not. I mean a have a friend thats gay and he was a christian for years because he chose to BE ONE and the same withe me i chose to become a christian and not GOD tellin be to. I chose this life not another.
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*exbate*
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"Behold I stand at the door if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I WILL COME IN TO HIMm, and will sup with him, and he with me.

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." (Rev._3:19-22)


and knock"My point is that you have to answar the call or you dont its up 2 yourself isint it?

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quote:
Originally posted by *exbate*:
thats my point though "but that all are being drawn." we are all drawn and we get to chose wether we have a relationship with the hevenly father or not. I mean a have a friend thats gay and he was a christian for years because he chose to BE ONE and the same withe me i chose to become a christian and not GOD tellin be to. I chose this life not another.

>>> If the person who you say is gay but they are a Christian then they have not come to know Jesus Christ or they would repent and stop living a gay life style. Life is about knowing and serving Jesus Christ not self. If they are a true Christian they would repent and turn from their sins like Jesus said to do.

Ezekiel 18:30
Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.


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*exbate*
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I am not talking about gay people here im talking about the fact that i chose to be with god AND NOT the other way around. THERE IS NOTHING WROMG WITH GAY PEOPLE. AND I SAID HE WAS A CHRISTIAN HE IS NOT A HYPICRATE AD GOD MADE HIM IN HIS IMAGE SO GOD MADE HIM GAY BY THE WAY AS IT SAYS THAT GOD MADE US IN HIS IMAGE
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KnowHim
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You are fooling yourself. God did not make him gay. The gay lifestyle is a choice. Just like murder is a choice. And NO you did not choose God. God chooses you. If you say no when He calls you because you would reather live in sin then you will be lost forever. And if someone thinks they know God and continues to live a sinful life style they better repent as eterinity is forever and ever way to long to let a choice for pleasure ruin their life for eterinity.

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*exbate*
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but it says in the bible that god created us in his image and if my friend were to chose his life style then he would still be a cristian waht would you do if a member of your family were gay.

BY THE WAY THIS WAS NOT WHAT I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT

AND YOU AS A FELLOW CHRITIAN ARE SYPPOSE TO HAVE COMPASSION FOR ALL AND YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO TURN YOUR BACK ON ANYONE JESUS WOULD NOT NE SAYING HIS IF IT WERE HIM

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*exbate*
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JESUS WOULD ACCEPT HIM AS HE ACCETPS EVERYONE
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God loves murders, abortionist, drug addicts, gays, prostitutes, etcs.... that is why he sent His son Jesus Christ to die to pay our sin dept. But He tells us to repent and turn to Him.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; ... ~ Acts 3:19

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. ~ John 8:10-11

I loves murders, abortionist, drug addicts, gays, prostitutes, etcs....of which I am one. That is who Jesus Christ came to save. But I would not love then if I did not share the truth with them. Lying to people to make them feel better would prove you did not really care.


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*exbate*
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I THINK IF MORE PEOPLE WERE LIKE GOD THEN I WOULD HAVE PROPER CONVERSATIONS WITHOUT THROWING THE BIBLE IN MY FACE
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*exbate*
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Going back to your earlyer point

And NO you did not choose God. God chooses you. If you say no when He calls you because you would reather live in sin then you will be lost forever.

what if you didnt know god existed

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*exbate*
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lets get back to the topic [Wink] [type]
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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by *exbate*:
I THINK IF MORE PEOPLE WERE LIKE GOD THEN I WOULD HAVE PROPER CONVERSATIONS WITHOUT THROWING THE BIBLE IN MY FACE

It seems you are only wanting to creat your own God because you do not want to know the true and only God. If you want to know Him repent and turn from your sins and He will will do as He said He would. But if you don't He will also do as He said He would.

Those who say that are right: their "god" would never write the bible, because he couldn’t. He doesn’t exist. He is a figment of their imagination, a god they have created to suit themselves. It’s called "idolatry," and it’s the oldest sin in the Book. Idolaters will not inherit the kingdom of God. The one true God, however, could and did create the bible. For those who reject His mercy. They will reap His just wrath.

Please open your eyes before it is to late. He seems to be calling you NOW.


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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by *exbate*:
Going back to your earlyer point

And NO you did not choose God. God chooses you. If you say no when He calls you because you would reather live in sin then you will be lost forever.

what if you didnt know god existed

Everyone knows God exists! You can say you don't but in your heart you know. You need to read the below:

http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

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Question: "Does God exist? Is there evidence for the existence of God?"

Answer: Does God exist? It is interesting that so much attention is given to this debate. The latest surveys tell us that over 90% of people in the world today believe in the existence of God or some higher power. Yet somehow the responsibility is placed on those who believe God does exist to somehow prove that He really does exist. It would be more logical if it were the other way around.

However, the existence of God cannot be proven or disproved. The Bible even says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists, “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him” (Hebrews 11:6). If God so desired, He could simply appear and prove to the whole world that He exists. But if He did that, there would be no need for faith. "Then Jesus told him, 'Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed'” (John 20:29).

That does not mean, however, that there is no evidence of God’s existence. The Bible states, “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world” (Psalm 19:1-4). Looking at the stars, understanding the vastness of the universe, observing the wonders of nature, seeing the beauty of a sunset—all of these things point to a Creator God. If these were not enough, there is also evidence of God in our own hearts. Ecclesiastes 3:11 tells us, “…He has also set eternity in the hearts of men…” There is something deep within us that recognizes there is something beyond this life and someone beyond this world. We can deny this knowledge intellectually, but God’s presence in us and through us is still there. Despite all of this, the Bible warns us that some will still deny God’s existence, “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God’” (Psalm 14:1). Since over 98% of people throughout history, in all cultures, in all civilizations, on all continents believe in the existence of some kind of God, there must be something (or someone) causing this belief.

In addition to the biblical arguments for God’s existence, there are logical arguments. First, there is the ontological argument. The most popular form of the ontological argument uses the concept of God to prove God’s existence. It begins with the definition of God as “that than which no greater can be conceived.” It is then argued that to exist is greater than to not exist, and therefore the greatest conceivable being must exist. If God did not exist then God would not be the greatest conceivable being, but that would contradict God's very definition. A second is the teleological argument. The teleological argument is that since the universe displays such an amazing design, there must have been a divine Designer. For example, if earth were even a few hundred miles closer or farther away from the sun, it would not be capable of supporting much of the life it currently does. If the elements in our atmosphere were even a few percentage points different, every living thing on earth would die. The odds of a single protein molecule forming by chance is 1 in 10 to the 243rd power (that is a 10 followed by 243 0's). A single cell is comprised of millions of protein molecules.

A third logical argument for God’s existence is called the cosmological argument. Every effect must have a cause. This universe and everything in it is an effect. There must be something that caused everything to come into existence. Ultimately, there must be something “un-caused” in order to cause everything else to come into existence. That “un-caused” something is God. A fourth argument is known as the moral argument. Every culture throughout history has had some form of law. Everyone has a sense of right and wrong. Murder, lying, stealing, and immorality are almost universally rejected. Where did this sense of right and wrong come from if not from a holy God?

Despite all of this, the Bible tells us that people will reject the clear and undeniable knowledge of God and instead believe a lie. Romans 1:25 declares, “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.” The Bible also proclaims that people are without excuse for not believing in God, “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—His eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” (Romans 1:20).

People claim to not believe in God because it is “not scientific” or “because there is no proof.” The true reason is that once people admit that there is a God, they also must realize that they are responsible to God and in need of forgiveness from Him (Romans 3:23; 6:23). If God exists, then we are accountable for our actions to Him. If God does not exist, then we can do whatever we want without having to worry about God judging us. That is why evolution is so strongly clung to by many in our society—to give people an alternative to believing in a Creator God. God exists and ultimately everyone knows that He exists. The very fact that some attempt so aggressively to disprove His existence is in fact an argument for His existence.

Allow one last argument for God’s existence. How do we know God exists? As Christians, we know God exists because we speak to Him every day. We do not audibly hear Him speaking back to us, but we sense His presence, we feel His leading, we know His love, we desire His grace. Things have occurred in our lives that have no other possible explanation other than God. God has so miraculously saved us and changed our lives that we cannot help but to acknowledge and praise His existence. None of these arguments in and of themselves can persuade anyone who refuses to acknowledge what is so plainly clear. In the end, God’s existence must be accepted by faith (Hebrews 11:6). Faith in God is not a blind leap into the dark; it is safe step into a well-lit room where 90% of people are already standing.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Does-God-exist.html

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*exbate*
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I HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED I HAVE CHRISTIAN PARENTS MY HOLE LIFE IS 4 GOD HOW DARE YOU
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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by *exbate*:
I HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED I HAVE CHRISTIAN PARENTS MY HOLE LIFE IS 4 GOD HOW DARE YOU

Being baptized and having Christian parents does not save you. Only knowing Jesus Christ and obeying Him will save you. If you whole life is 4 God then you would obey Him and tell people the truth about what the bible really says and not defend peoples sin.

1 John 2:3-6 (NIV)
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

*exbate* I know we have not hit is off very well but don't give up on this message board. There are many people on here that can say things a lot nicer then I do. I was just not born with a good bed side manner.

Peace [Wink]


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*exbate*
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i kNOW AND LOVE GOD WITH ALL MY HEART BUT I WILL NEVER STOP LOVING EVERYONE.
GOD GAVE ME THE GIFT TO LOVE EVERYONE. EVERYONE HAS STRUGGELES AND THINGS THEY NEED TO GET OVER. GOD IS IN ME AND ALL AROUND ME THATS WHAT MATTERS MOST IN LIFE.
IF I DIDNT HAVE GOD I DO NOT NO WHAT I WOULD DO I WOULD PROBS BE DEAD IF THE TRUTH WAS KNOWN,GOD CAME TO ME AT A VERY IMPORTANT TIME IN MY LIFE AND I HOLD ON TO HIM WITH MY LIFE IF I EVER LET GO THAT WOULD BE IT.
BUT THANK YOU FOR THE FACT U WERE HONNIST ABOUT WHAT YOU BELEIVE. I JUST WISH MORE PEOPLE WERE HONNEST.

HOW LONG HAVE YOU HAD A FAITH 4 IF YOU DONT MID ME ASKING

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KnowHim
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I am now 50 years old. I have know the Lord for more then half my life. I came to know Him when I was 23 years old.

My Testimony
http://fishthe.net/david.htm

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. - John 1:12


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becauseHElives
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*exbate* my answer ....

Yahweh chose me... the scripture says He chose me before the world began....

my understanding is since Messiah was crucified the Holy Spirit is drawing all men to Himself and since I know Yahweh also never changes He has through all ages past done the same....

Caleb was a Gentile and he went into the promice land....

to me there are parallel truths...

Yahweh chose me, but one day I also made a choice to except His offer of Love....

Words can be confusing sometimes but love is never confusing...

Some say Salvation is without cost, I understand what they are saying ( I can not earn Salvation by good works0 but Love is not works...

a husband loves his wife ...he shows it by action...

a wife loves her husband... she shows it by action...

a son loves his dad....he shows it by action...

a Savior loves ... he shows it by action...

a person saved by love... in return show they are truly saved by action...

most things have a owners manual,,, a wise person reads the instruction manual so they may get full use of the product....

The Heavenly father has given an instruction manual "the Bible"... He has also provided a personal instructor to make sure you understand how everything works....

all men and women will stand defenseless on judgment day as to how they lived their life....

remember pride is the enemy of all mankind and the proud Yahweh will always reject....

but the humble of heart (those who are marked by meekness or modesty in behavior, attitude, or spirit; not arrogant or prideful) Yahweh will give saving grace.

I pray Yahweh open your eyes...

love
dale

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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yahsway
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God created mankind, male and female, Adam and Eve in His image. But He is not the Father of Everyone.

For example, after Sin entered into the world, thru Adam and Eves Disobedience, Scripture says that Adam had a son, in "his own likeness and image" Gen 5:3
In the image of Adam. But, If one is in the image of Yeshua, Born-again, that one is redeemed back to the Father and is once again in the image of God.

One of the very 1st commands was to be fruitful and multiply. Same sex people cannot do this. God does not make one Gay, it is by choice. God however loves Gay people, but would have them to repent and turn from it. For it is as scripture says an "abomination" in His eyes.

And before anyone here attacks me on this, Let me say to all of you here, I am the mother of 4 children, of which 1 is a practicing Lesbian, and another a practicing Homosexual male.

This has broke my heart to the very core, for I have tried to raise up my children in the path of righteousness and have had them in Church since they were born. I have questioned, over and over again, what did we, my husband and I do, that this would happen?

I have no answers, but to say that each one of us are responsible for our own actions.

I do NOT condone this lifestyle they have chosen. For a while, i could not even talk to them. Oh Yes, I still love them very very much, and I am here for them, but both of them know my views and convictions on the matter.

I lost a lot of friends in the church who said i should have "whipped them into submission" but they were already at the age of adulthood when they confessed this to me so what was I suppose to do?

Everyday, my husband and I are on our knees, literally, everyday since we found out, and we cry to Yahweh for Him to restore them to lead them back no matter what it takes.

These are children who at one time confessed the Lord as their savior, but have turned their back on Him and His ways. I dont know why i am telling you all here this if nothing else but to please remember them in your prayers and to lift me up as well for strength. By the way, these are twin brother and sister.

Was I angry when I found out? You bet I was and still am, not at them, but at that ole serpent who has them bound up.

And to answer stoic about throwing the bible in his face, All i can say is that the Bible is God, it is His word, it is Life, that Life and word is Yeshua written on every page from Gen-Rev.

If you want a conversation with God, then you got to get into His word. And His word is Truth.

It is what sets one Free, free from anger, from resentment, free from wrath and free from a spirit of fear. There is a way that seems right to man, but it is not. Only Gods ways are Truth Period.

Again, not to offend anyone here, and hopefully not to place blame on any individual, for Satan walks around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

All I can do now is stand fast, hold onto my faith, love all human beings, pray for all human beings, and take one day at a time.

Shalom

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jumpinjack
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exbate....
a most excellent thread. I really don't care to respond to a lot of the detracting comments thrown your way. Just wanted to let you know you do have an interesting point to make about LOVE.

It's so easy for us to forget that our love for God (whom we cannot see) IS measured by our ability to love ALL mankind (whom we can see) Just as HE loves us. And that our reciept of forgiveness IS contingent on our forgiving ALL just as HE fforgives us.

Sometimes I just have to remind myself that as long as I keep that in mind - it's really really hard to sin.

My prayers are with you as it seems you and I are meeting with some of the same challenges as Christians - just judging from what I've seen on this thread.

Just to get back to the subject....Seems to me that the answer to your question is BOTH!

Yes...Your Heavenly father chose you. Yes...He chooses everyone and loves us ALL equally - demanding that we do the same. Conversely .. . He wants only willing participants in eternity...therefore we must also choose HIM. He doesn't force eternal life on anyone. So your question is really a matter of free will. Not so much whether he (chose us) OR we (chose Him) as WE (HE and us) must agree to choose one another for it to work.

That's my understanding...hope it helps you return this thread to the topic YOU wanted to discuss.

Peace out---

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Found in Him
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Yes we must love but not condone lifestyles that will condemn a soul to eternal damnation. That's not love that turns a blind eye to sin and condones it's harsh end which is death.. it's the same as taking part in that sin.

We must be born again and willing to let the Lord wash and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Whom The Son sets free is free indeed. God alone has the power to forgive, sanctify, cleanse and give us new birth in Himself. The Holy Spirit convinces us of what is sin...that's His work.

Yahsway...I appreciate your transparency...God is able and will not forget your faithfulness to Him. Let's never underestimate The power of our God or His abilities to cleanse through and through... I believe He will open their eyes and draw them to Himself in a very tangible way!


John 13:5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. 6 Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet? 7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. 8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. 9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. 10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit.


Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

13:1-17 Our Lord Jesus has a people in the world that are his own; he has purchased them, and paid dear for them, and he has set them apart for himself; they devote themselves to him as a peculiar people. Those whom Christ loves, he loves to the end. Nothing can separate a true believer from the love of Christ. We know not when our hour will come, therefore what we have to do in constant preparation for it, ought never to be undone. What way of access the devil has to men's hearts we cannot tell. But some sins are so exceedingly sinful, and there is so little temptation to them from the world and the flesh, that it is plain they are directly from Satan. Jesus washed his disciples' feet, that he might teach us to think nothing below us, wherein we may promote God's glory, and the good of our brethren. We must address ourselves to duty, and must lay aside every thing that would hinder us in what we have to do. Christ washed his disciples' feet, that he might signify to them the value of spiritual washing, and the cleansing of the soul from the pollutions of sin. Our Lord Jesus does many things of which even his own disciples do not for the present know the meaning, but they shall know afterward. We see in the end what was the kindness from events which seemed most cross. And it is not humility, but unbelief, to put away the offers of the gospel, as if too rich to be made to us, or too good news to be true. All those, and those only, who are spiritually washed by Christ, have a part in Christ. All whom Christ owns and saves, he justifies and sanctifies. Peter more than submits; he begs to be washed by Christ. How earnest he is for the purifying grace of the Lord Jesus, and the full effect of it, even upon his hands and head! Those who truly desire to be sanctified, desire to be sanctified throughout, to have the whole man, with all its parts and powers, made pure. The true believer is thus washed when he receives Christ for his salvation. See then what ought to be the daily care of those who through grace are in a justified state, and that is, to wash their feet; to cleanse themselves from daily guilt, and to watch against everything defiling. This should make us the more cautious. From yesterday's pardon, we should be strengthened against this day's temptation. And when hypocrites are discovered, it should be no surprise or cause of stumbling to us. Observe the lesson Christ here taught. Duties are mutual; we must both accept help from our brethren, and afford help to our brethren. When we see our Master serving, we cannot but see how ill it becomes us to domineer. And the same love which led Christ to ransom and reconcile his disciples when enemies, still influences him.

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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MentorsRiddle
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Member # 2108

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A sin is a sin is a sin.

Being homosexual is NOT a sin – but commiting homosexual acts are a sin.

For example:

I am a sinner – Nothing new here. We are all sinners – when we sin we must repent in our heart for what we have done.

Now, if someone was a homosexual – ok, again, nothing new. Many people are homosexuals (sinners). When they commit homosexual acts – that’s when it becomes evil and wrong in the eyes of God.

No one can convince me that being a homosexual is something you are born as.

There are no other homosexual creatures in the animal kingdom NONE.

And please don’t try to bring up silly points about penguins, dolphins, whales, dogs, etc. Because I will shoot every one of them down with hardcore scientific information.

So – if someone is gay fine, but it should not be condoned by any Christian.

This IS WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS!

If you argue this point with me then you have pride in your heart – for it IS what the bible says.

You can be a gay persons friend, but not say what they do is ok in the eyes of the Lord.

Just like I have friends who get drunk and do drugs – I don’t like what they do and let them know – but I’ll still be their friend and help to set a good example.

PS: Please no more caps, it makes your posts very hard to read

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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.

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George40
First Post
Member # 14373

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Am George...

Blessings everyone

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george

Philippians 4:13 I can do all this through him who gives me strength. Read chapter in New International Version.

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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175

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Welcome George. I am a 64 married grandmother. I got saved at 7.
Betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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