|
Author
|
Topic: Narnia
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
Eduardo Grequi
quote:
Now hear this If Eve did not think it was weird talking to a serpent,
"If" that is the most destructive, uncertain expressive word in the English language.
“If” Eve hadn’t spoken to the serpent, the human race would not be where it is today.
quote:
I have no problem having my children watch Narnia.
You have that right, you can let you children watch pornography also but if you think they will not be harmed you are so wrong.
Baalam’s A ss tried to warn him what he was doing was not pleasing Yahweh.
Maybe Adam and Eve could talk to the animals, I don’t know.
That’s another one of those “if’s”
But I know for sure, the animals that Adam and Eve may have talked to, were not half human and half goat
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
Itty-Bitty Girl
Advanced Member
Member # 4579
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Narnia is Satanic, plan and simple.
But the blind will prefer to remain blind.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Hellivision/narnia.htm
Yikes! Disney is SICK! I saw the link, Dale. Thanks for letting me know about how gross Disney really is.
My friend's cousin is not even allowed to watch that Disney show called "That's So Raven", because the main character is a "psychic" teen. I guess that show makes being a psychic cool. I used to like that show myself, until I got bad feelings about it after a while, too, because the girl is a psychic. I have an issue with that.
Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
|
posted
I watched and have Narnia, For being a good movie and entertainment it is good. It is no more different then watching Lion King, My Little Ponies. Because it is Animated it is not real in the since of Humans walking around with Humans. Now hear this If Eve did not think it was weird talking to a serpent, then how much different is when the donkey talking to human etc.. I truly believe before the fall, Humans were able to communicate directly to the Animal Kingdom. I have no problem having my children watch Narnia.
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810
|
posted
Hi Eden
I don't think that Narnia 'teaches' anything about scripture, faith or the nature of God as enevitably an allegory falls down in the details. It's a STORY with a strong ressurection parallel, nothing more. I was simply reacting to the ridiculously over the top website link that was posted.
As for the other Chronicles of Narnia books, it's been a long time since I read them - I seem to remember enjoying reading them though.
--------------------
Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
So you think this world, the enemy of Yahweh, will produce anything to farther Yahweh's Kingdom.
Do you think it an oversight on the Disney Company, to be a very vocal voice for queers (homosexuals)?
Satan is busy setting up the world scene for the antichrist and where are the watchmen on the wall to warn the people.
Methods of "salvation" taught in the Chronicles of Narnia
Something for everyone
1. Selective substitutionary sacrifice on the "one for one" basis - Aslan for Edmund [TLTWTW]. It's applied through a ritual slaying performed much like a witchcraft sacrifice where a more powerful magic outwits a lesser one, as opposed to the Biblical sacrifice of Christ for the sins of the world made through capital punishment. 1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2. Personal realization through calamity and "freeing" from outer layers by an external source - Eustace with the bracelet that turns him into a dragon, which he can only be freed from by Aslan "peeling away the layers" [TVTD].
This is one of those "life
changing/transforming" experiences which has no relationship to Biblical salvation. Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. When you start "pealing layers" to get "saved" you usually find out you're an onion anyway. 2Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; [Not pealed away] behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
3. Rescue by other (more or less human) sources. This is probably portrayed several different ways in the Chronicles. Prince Rilian is delivered from the Lady of the Green Kirtle, the queen of the under world, through the efforts and faith of others [TSC]. As mentioned before, this harks back to the religious legends of the sun being held prisoner in the underworld by the evil "goddess" through the winter months. He is released at the winter equinox when the days start to lengthen. (Remember in TSC they arrive back at the surface during the "the Great Snow Dance", which is remarkably pagan and witchy as described.) Anyway, this also would bear some resemblance to Rome's purgatory from which people are said to be delivered by the efforts of others, and also the baptism for the dead as practiced by the Mormon church (Latter Day Saints, or Church of Jesus Christ as they call themselves in some countries). This is also contrary to Biblical salvation. Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. ("Thou" representing the singular "you" in King James English.)
4. Sincere belief in something, even if it's the wrong thing - the Calormene who sincerely worshipped Tash (Satan) ended up in the "heaven", or nirvana, of Narnia at the end because he was sincere and all sincere worship was ultimately to Aslan. This, of course, is gross and blatant blasphemy. 1Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (Based on this verse, I could be so bold as to suggest that Lewis is identifying Aslan as the devil he really is through this little incident, whether he intended it that way or not.)
5. Esoteric resurrection? This one I find hard to define - In "Aslan's land" Eustace is commanded to drive a long thorn into Aslan's paw thus producing a drop of blood which raises King Caspian from the dead out of a flowing stream [TSC]. The exact significance of this in mythological or Luciferian lore has eluded me, but the fact that Aslan is portrayed as making a second sacrifice to save Caspian is curious.
There is some reminder of the Catholic Mass which offers "christ" continually. As before - the sacrifice at the stone table was not sufficient for all. This is again contrary to scripture. Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
6. Conversion through physical suffering and a change of mind. In THAHB Aravis atones for her sin through physical suffering. She is wounded by Aslan "tear for tear, throb for throb, blood for blood" (p. 194) according as her maid was beaten after Aravis ran away. She also changed her mind. It is Jesus that bore the chastisement for us. John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Narnia is Satanic, plan and simple.
But the blind will prefer to remain blind.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Hellivision/narnia.htm
What a pile of rubbish that website is:
"Walt Disney is of the Devil, controlled by secret society Illuminist's who are trying to corrupt every child in America. "
Illuminati???? Come on people! I think the guy is slightly unstable.
In a film like Narnia that uses symbology to depict a representation of the ressurection story, the impression that we each take away is shaped by our own thoughts. The character Mr Tumnus is a faun and that WAS the symbol of Pan, but the symbol of the faun has changed over time and it's meaning has been assimilated into mainstream conciousness as something else. In the story he is a good character who does something bad, repents of that, tries to make up for it and so gets frozen into stone but comes back at the end after the evil witch is defeated. That is what people take away, nothing else.
As for the ridiculous paedophilia reference to the scene with Lucy and Mr Tumnus on the web site? Well, all I can say is that person's twisted and sick mind has solely applied that interpretation and they should think pray long and hard about the issues that they have that have brought them to that interpretation.
--------------------
Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
|
winniethepooh
Community Member
Member # 6131
|
posted
Just to add to what I said the symbolism doesn't make it intrisically Christian or non-Christian. The only truly Christian work is The Bible and everything else is created by man. Those which are man created can be Christian influenced to varying degrees.
Posts: 15 | From: Canada | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
|
|
winniethepooh
Community Member
Member # 6131
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
I Knew the spirit in me objected to seeing this movie, but I couldn't put my finger on exactly why. Here's a blurb from the Feb. Newsletter at Caphas Ministry:
quote:
SPEAKING OF NARNIA
Christ's parables did not contain a mixture of truth and paganism, but Lewis's stories unblushingly intertwine a few vague biblical themes with pagan mythology: nymphs, fauns (part man and part goat), dwarfs, centaurs (part man and part horse), Dryads (tree-women), and Naiads (well-women). All of these creatures are depicted as serving Aslan. Lewis presents the deeply heretical idea of good magic. He calls Aslan's power "Deep Magic" and Aslan's father's power as "Emperor's Magic." He introduces the vile pagan god Bacchus and his orgies as a desirable thing that was part of Narnia's past before the White Witch worked her spell. He presents the myth of "Father Christmas" as if it were innocent and wholesome. He teaches that Adam's first wife was not Eve but rather a woman named Lilith and that she was a witch.
As for the heart of the story, which is the death and resurrection of the lion Aslan, at best it is a corrupt depiction of Christ's salvation. Aslan dies and sheds his blood not to satisfy God's law but to satisfy the "Deep Power" and the White Witch.
This confusion is a reflection of Lewis's heretical stand on the atonement. He said, "The central Christian belief is that Christ's death has SOMEHOW put us right with God and given us a fresh start. Theories as to how it did this are another matter. ... Any theories we build up as to how Christ's death did all of this are, in my view, quite secondary..." (Mere Christianity, HarperSanFrancisco edition, 2001, pp. 54, 55, 56). This is heresy. God has revealed exactly what Christ did and what the atonement means. It is not a matter of theorizing or believing one "formula" over against another. The Bible says our salvation is a matter of a propitiation, a ransom, whereby our sins were washed away by Christ's bloody death, which was offered as a payment to satisfy God's holy Law. (January 16, 2006 http://www.wayoflife.org )
Softtouch, everyone doesn't need to imitate Christ's parables to get the same point across.
The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe is a "story" that gives people an example of Christ.
Many Old Testament stories also give us an example of Christ. Joseph, Moses, David, Ruth, Joshua, etc.
I like entering the Wardrobe to entering my prayer closet. When the children entered the Wardrobe they entered into battle, just as we enter into battle against Satan.
In the Bible, we are taught that once Adam and Eve sinned, that their dominion over the earth was forfeited/corrupted, and Satan became the prince of this world.
We are still a threat to Satan, just as the children were a threat to the White Witch.
The white witch was able to hold the one boy captive due to his agreement with her way of thinking and he ended up betraying his siblings.
When we agree with Satan we are also held captive.
Aslan is the one who established this Deep Power, just as God Almighty established the rules for Satan and mankind. The white witch was playing according to those rules. Satan must play according to God's rules. Satan just knows how to play us and get us deceived.
I agree with White Eagle. Much if not all of the story is written using symbolism.
Posts: 15 | From: Canada | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
![[updown]](graemlins/updown.gif) ![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif)
I am not saying a good consceince is unimportant; The scripture clearly teaches that we should have a good and clear conscience toward God, but that must be based on the standard of HIS word.
I am saying the conscience of man, it is subjective. It judges morally, but God's word is above morality, which is also subjective.
In the Amazon rain forests of Brazill there lives a tribe of people called the Wari. The Wari practice cannibalism. They in times past ate their enemies, but also they consumed their dead as an act of love. They had completely good conscience in doing so.
One might say that is because they are heathen.
Well, Constantine, who claimed to be a Christian burned people in good conscience, believing that he was doing the work of God. His clear and good consceince was meaningless because it was not founded in the standard of the WORD.
We can have a good conscience about anything we like, but if it the moral standard is not the WORD of God, then having a good conscience is a mute point.
One more thing if the conscience were part of the Spirit that is given us in the rebirth and not part of the soul and mind, then it would be impossible for a born again person to have an evil conscience and there would be no need for it to be sprinkled with blood.....
Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
The consceince is part of the soul of man that has been redeemed and like the mind of man which I believe it is part, it must be purged of the filth and renewed:
Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
quote:
4893 suneidhsiv suneidesis soon-i’-day-sis
from a prolonged form of 4894; TDNT-7:898,1120; n f
AV-conscience 32; 32
1) the consciousness of anything
2) the soul as distinguishing between what is morally good and bad, prompting to do the former and shun the latter, commending one, condemning the other
2a) the conscience
quote:
Conscience
That faculty of the mind, or inborn sense of right and wrong, by which we judge of the moral character of human conduct. It is common to all men. Like all our other faculties, it has been perverted by the Fall #Joh 16:2 Ac 26:9 Ro 2:15 It is spoken of as "defiled" #Ti 1:15 and "seared" #1Ti 4:2 A "conscience void of offence" is to be sought and cultivated #Ac 24:16 Ro 9:1 2Co 1:12 1Ti 1:5,19 1Pe 3:21
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I am assured of my salvation because the scripture says I can be;and I do not trust my conscience. I trust GOD and HIS word. Our Conscience is affected by our experiences, and our flesh and our will. It is part of our old man. God speaks not to our conscience, but to our Spirit....which is the NEW Creature.
Acts 23:1
And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.
~Anybody, saint or sinner, is in big trouble if they don't have a conscience. My conscience is within my Spirit.
IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
If that is so, it is because to my shame I have needed and still do need to be so completely smathered with it and HIS Mercy that you cant help but to see it!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
|
posted
You're welcome Sis ![[Smile]](smile.gif) I thought you might have been mistaken... no harm done as we got it straight!
God Bless You Sis! You're an Awsome Witness of God's Grace!
--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
Deb you are correct and I am dreadfully wrong. I have been seeing that name and in my brain picturing a totally different site. May God forgive me for bearing this false witness against them. You are absolutely right and I apologize. I know this is not the first time that you have posted something from there and I have thought to myself why does she use that site! But this is not at all the site I was thinking of or picturing in my brain. I am going to go look for that site now and I will PM you with it so you know what I was speaking of, but this is not it and I am terribly wrong about this one and I will correct my post above. Thank you for correcting me.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I dont see anything wrong with Deb sharing what she had found in way of this article. Or in my giving her links to other information on the subject for that matter. We are all adults and we can read what we chose and evaluate it and decide for ourselves if we want to investigate further or not or whether we think the source is legitimate or not.
Thank you Sis That's basically all I did... share what I found in an article which had explained to 'me' what it was about The Movie that made me So Uncomfortable. I did not call Lewis a Heritic as WhiteEagle has suggested. I don't know enough about him to form an opinion really. My focus was on the Movie... the other part was part of the article (which I posted in full).
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I dont particularly like Cephas' website for numerous reasons, for one I dont believe as they do that one can loose their salvation when one is born again and so I probably would not use them as a reference,
I hadn't read that? I'll have to check their statement of faith (which I did a long time ago, but I'm not sure if it's in there?)
In their section titled "Believers Files" they have this article by Dave Hunt: http://www.cephasministry.com/once_saved.html which supports the OSAS position ![[Wink]](wink.gif) Although they do have a disclaimer on their website saying that they don't always agree with the authors of articles they host (They are a Library for Discernment Articles), I would 'assume' any articles listed in the "Believers Files" would be positions they agree with? But that's just a guess.
--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
I've seen the movie. "The Lion,the Witch, and the Wardrobe".
The witch was NOT good. She was evil personified.
I find that many people who go to Protestants church, many who are really saved may be the minority and Not the rule.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
quote:
We all should so grounded in our own faith walk that we trust our own conscience in such matters. I rarely go to movies, but I am so assured of my own salvation, that nothing negative said about this movie on this board, or by any other venue, is going to sway me from giving kudos to this movie.
I have no idea what endorsing or not endorsing a movie has to do with assurance of your salvation. I am assured of my salvation because the scripture says I can be;and I do not trust my conscience. I trust GOD and HIS word. Our Conscience is affected by our experiences, and our flesh and our will. It is part of our old man. God speaks not to our conscience, but to our Spirit....which is the NEW Creature. The morality of the culture at any given time will affect the conscience of man. There are probably thousands of born again Christians that are listening to their conscience that believes that homosexuality is genetic and you cant help who you love and they are practicing something that is abomination to God because they are not listening to the Spirit or the WORD. The conscience of every catholic that ever prayed a prayer to Mary expecting her to have favour with CHrist and God is clear and yet the WORD says that there is ONE single mediator between God and man. The consciecnce of the homosexual pastor that stands at the pulpit of the methodist church is clear, but God says that his lifestyle is sin. I would never trust my conscience over the word of God.
but the Holy Spirit has also convicted me that there is a war in the heavenlies and there is an enemy of the Christian who seeks to keep their minds conformed to the ways of the world that they not walk in the victory that God has given them and they not see or know his deceptions; and that there are still ones out there that are lost and some of them in the church believing they are not lost and that these are the last days and there are many who are following men and think that they are following God and the devil comes as an angel of light, and eventually many will have their hearts hardened and their eyes blinded that they believe a lie and with my dying breath or until he calls me up, which ever comes first, I will speak against the subtle ways that the enemy seeks to spread his lies, and I will speak against the little seemingly un important or insignificant ways that the enemy perverts the word of God, and I will speak to anyone who has ears to hear. And I do this because I love the brethren and it keeps me so busy I have no time to see movies or to promote them.
quote:
In true Comfort form he turned it around and used it as an opportunity to witness. The fact that he didn't have anything to say against it, certainly tells me that he is making a very strong endorsement for the movie.
I could never take such a presumptuous attitude about Ray Comfort and further I see that would defeat any attempt to take advantage of this opportunity to speak to those who were draw to the movie for the sake of being drawn to the movie. If I go into a bar for example to preach the Gospel, I do not go in there screaming about how getting drunk is a sin. I go in there to take advantage of the presence of sinners who need to hear the truth of the gospel. If I were speaking to Christians I would not speak about the same things that I spoke to the sinners about either, nor would I speak to the sinner about the things I would speak to the Christian about.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
|
posted
HFHS .....
Amen. Amen. Amen.
As usual, you are one of the few (if not the only) voices of reason.
It is to be expected that those who are blind to all sorts of other doctrinal error, will also be blind to Narnia's problems.
As with you, I wouldn't feel guilty about seeing the movie, but I most certainly would not endorse it as Christian.
How does a bible believer call a movie based on pagan mythology and witchcraft Christian?
How does one reconcile this movie with what the bible says?
And what does Ray Comfort have to do with it? If Ray thinks it's okay, then it must be?
Whether he endorses it or not, it's still not a Christian movie and it still conflicts with biblical teaching.
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
We all have to make our own decisions about how we will walk this walk in the sight of God,
We all should so grounded in our own faith walk that we trust our own conscience in such matters. I rarely go to movies, but I am so assured of my own salvation, that nothing negative said about this movie on this board, or by any other venue, is going to sway me from giving kudos to this movie.
From HFHS- quote:
Ray Comfort to do what he did because at least those that were drawn to this film would here the real Gospel. I think that we are supposed to be wise. I dont see that comfort in any way endorsed this film or said go see it; I think he saw an opportunity and exploited it for God's glory, good for him!
In true Comfort form he turned it around and used it as an opportunity to witness. The fact that he didn't have anything to say against it, certainly tells me that he is making a very strong endorsement for the movie.
IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
It is interesting reading. I would never pass judgment on his being a Christian, but I would say that his theology was a bit questionable at best and heretical at worst. You may not. It seems to me that my greatest concern with him personally, was that he says him self that he believes Christianity, which he calls a religion and catagorizes along with other religions, because it is the most rational thing to believe. It would worry me to have a friend say someting like that.
Additionally, he is quite eccumenical in his thinking and you know I am not. I believe that Catholicism is apostate, though I know that there are born again people in the Catholic Church, I believe that they are a minority or exception and not the rule. I do not consider for example, as he does, that the Catholic mass is on equal footing with the bread and wine of our communion that Jesus said to do in rememberance of HIM, Lewis does.
I could make quite a list of things, but I will wait till you read it and maybe we can discuss it together.
He certainly is a fantastic author of fiction, but I am opposed to the use of witches to represent good in Christian literature and the mixing of things having to do with he occult with Christianity.
When I add to that the fact that Disney has produced this and know that Disney is not just tolerant of the homosexual lifestyle, but spends huge ammounts of money promoting its acceptance as legitimate and normal, then it becomes to much for me.
We all have to make our own decisions about how we will walk this walk in the sight of God, but I believe that they should be informed decisions and I dont see anything wrong with Deb sharing what she had found in way of this article. Or in my giving her links to other information on the subject for that matter. We are all adults and we can read what we chose and evaluate it and decide for ourselves if we want to investigate further or not or whether we think the source is legitimate or not.
I have read Mere Christianity and I find that I understand, how Cephas came to say the things that they say. I was surprised the first time I heard these things. I gave all my children these works to read and also tolkien's works; there were considered classic literature that was almost required reading in our society, but are they Christian? I would not say so, and I was thankful to here someone say that Lewis's theology was heretical, because it sent me to see for myself if that were true.
It is difficult for me to understand the desire of some to remain ignorant of such things, much less wanting someone else to be ignorant as well. Even if I came out with the same beliefs that I had to begin with, I would want them to be based in knoweledge and not blind ignorance. If someone wants to think that Narnia is great and Lewis is great, then think so with all your heart, but think so because you know the facts and not because you have heard it paraded around town. Disney spent millions to entice the church specifically to support this movie with their pocketbooks, when Disney's agenda is so different than that of the church and I know that the day to day events in this world are directly related to war in the unseen realm, that tells me that red flags should be going up and it surprises me when it doesnt tell others that. In this way, I think that it was wise of Ray Comfort to do what he did because at least those that were drawn to this film would here the real Gospel. I think that we are supposed to be wise. I dont see that comfort in any way endorsed this film or said go see it; I think he saw an opportunity and exploited it for God's glory, good for him!
Lastly, God can and does work all things for our Good and HIS glory if we be called according to HIS purpose and walk in the spirit and not the flesh, and there is nothing that the enemy can send that God cant turn around and use for HIS ultimate glory, but in the life of HIS children, should he have to work those things around when we have the choice to leave them at the door and not bring them into our life in the first place?
All things are legal - All things are not profitable all things do not edify.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pleasemaranatha:
Dear HisGrace,
Hey, I finally got sound so I listened to The Narnia Story that you linked us to. What I witnessed to my husband and kids
was what Ray said about the movie. I feel better that atleast I did that correctly. Thanks for that.
I agree with all WhiteEagle wrote. You know I can even listen to an oldie record from the 50's or 60's when my husband plays them and relate them to Godly things. As they sing about love I am telling God how I love HIM. God is so unique and creative. Doesn't God use many things and turn them upside down so we can learn or others get seeds planted?
I won't feel guilty anymore about seeing that movie. God is wiser than me and if He wanted me not to see that movie He would have told me. How wonderful that the whole theater was empty so we could talk during the movie....I think the usher heard all of what we said too. God planned that.
Glory be to God! ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
So I guess the debate keeps going on about this movie with some of us.
I listen to 80's music and have been aware of the Lord speaking to me showing me His love through the words that are sung. Joyce, this is so awesome, that you wrote about this!
Like one song called "Solid: Like a Rock". or "Don't Stop Believing",
God is not limited. There is a verse in Titus 1:15 "To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and conscience are defiled."
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
White Eagle I am curious have you read Mere Christianity?
No I haven't read that book by CS lewis, I have read the ScrewTape Letters.
Softtouch provided a quote in her post from Mere Christianity and I was commenting from that standpoint.
If that's the worst she can quote from his book, I still think she is too quick to call people heretics. I guess I'll have to read it now.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
His Grace: I want to address your post. I had written last night when the server crahsed and I lost my post so I am going to try again to night.
1. I dont know what High Christian Morals are. Morality is not a word that is in the Bible. Morality is what is acceptable in a society at any given time. Unlike God morality changes with the seasons. For example in 1963, it would have been immoral for men to have sex together on TV; today it is immoral to judge them for having sex at all. In the Amazon rain forests cannibalism is not immoral among the wari people. It is immoral here.
2. As for Ray Comfort. I appreciate Ray comfort's preaching of the gospel. I believe that he does a good job. However this does not lead me to conclude that Ray Comfort is above sin, error, being deceived, or anything else that can happen to humans. I see him as no better Christian than any other Christian and less subject to the wiles of the devil than any other Christian.
3. I dont believe in esteeming men above what is written nor following any man. I follow Jesus and I esteem the written word of God above all men. If at any point in my life I saw Ray Comfort doing something with regard to preaching or teaching that I felt was contrary to the word of God I would say so. I cant think of a man alive that I would not say the same thing about.
4. I do not in any way see that Ray Comfort was endorsing the Chronicles of Narina. I think Ray Comfort saw an opportunity where thousands would be drawn to a movie and took advantage of that to preach that Gospel, and because I do see at this point that Ray Comfort does preach a true Gospel to include the need to see sin and know that we are sinners and hell bound without Jesus, I applaud him for making lemonaide from lemons. As to Ray comforts thoughts on CS Lewis or the use of witches and such in his writings I do not know because he has not said that I have heard or read. Ray Comfort would not be alone if he thought that CS Lewis was a great man. Many do. But none of that leads me to conclude that we should not investigate Lewis' theology before we go talking about what a great Christian he was. Nor does that lead me to conclude that there is something wrong with speaking against the mixing of paganism with Christianity. I think that the Bible stands very clear on the issues of witches and wizards and all manner of things haivng to do with the occult.
4. Lastly on Narnia. Narnia is about money. Disney grossed almost 300 million dollars on Narnia as of February 12th. When the DVD comes out and all the lsicensing projects are said and done that figure will likely double. Disney spent 180 million dollars making the movie, and over a million of that was spent on special promotional efforts to churches to get them to endorse and see the movie. Disney wants the Christian dollar. In fact Disney thinks that the lions share of the 300 million that they have already made has come from Christians.
Disney is pleased to get Christians to continue to buy Disney. Disney has been on the outs with Christians and has suffered considerable financial loss because Christians stopped buying Disney because Disney promotes a homosexual agenda. So anytime that Disney can get Christian dollars and use them to continue to promote the homosexual agenda that is abomination to the Christian God, then this is a good thing in the eyes of the enemy. Disney does not care about spreading Christianity . Disney cares about making their shareholder's happy and I am quit sure they appreciate that you think Narnia is a good thing.
They hope that you will spread that where ever you go in the Christian community and you probably will.
Let me tell you what I think about that:
Matthew 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
With one hand Disney spends literally millions to get Christians to visit the box office and see Narnia - with the other it spends millions to promote and legitmize the homosexual lifestyle that is abomination to the Christian God.
Luke 11:23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Money is the only thing that motivated Disney to make a Movie of Lewis' writing.
Ephesians 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
There is a war going on in the heavenlies and it is being played out in the actions of men in this realm
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
PleaseMarantha: I am glad you dont feel guilty. I didnt realize you did. I dont think that God ever wants us to feel guilty, even when we do something wrong. (I dont see how you did anything wrong either) But when we do, Then HE wants us to repent and confess to him our sin not to feel guilty. It is the enemy that brings guilt it keeps us from seeing what God would have us see and keeps us focused on ourselves instead of God.
I dont know that I could agree that God wanted you to see that movie, but HE sure is able to use what the enemy wants for our Good and HIS glory; God is an expert at that! It is something that he is doing continually! Praise God.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Pleasemaranatha
Advanced Member
Member # 5150
|
posted
Dear HisGrace,
Hey, I finally got sound so I listened to The Narnia Story that you linked us to. What I witnessed to my husband and kids
was what Ray said about the movie. I feel better that atleast I did that correctly. Thanks for that.
I agree with all WhiteEagle wrote. You know I can even listen to an oldie record from the 50's or 60's when my husband plays them and relate them to Godly things. As they sing about love I am telling God how I love HIM. God is so unique and creative. Doesn't God use many things and turn them upside down so we can learn or others get seeds planted?
I won't feel guilty anymore about seeing that movie. God is wiser than me and if He wanted me not to see that movie He would have told me. How wonderful that the whole theater was empty so we could talk during the movie....I think the usher heard all of what we said too. God planned that.
Glory be to God!
So I guess the debate keeps going on about this movie with some of us.
--------------------
My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning. Psalms 130 verse 6
Joyce
Posts: 308 | From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
White Eagle I am curious have you read Mere Christianity?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Dear Heavenly Father,
You have shown us what is acceptable and what is unacceptable to You in Your Holy Word and That is our guide for all Truth. Too often we take the words of one who claims you over checking with what Your Word has to say. I pray that you will speak to the hearts of those who would put more stock in what 'men' may say over what Your Holy Word says. I pray that we would all 'test the spirits' before accepting what is said. Father, please help us All to be Good Bereans and open our hearts, ears, and eyes to what You would have us know. In Jesus Name I ask. Amen ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
Softtouch:
Test the spirit of these sites you so readily buy into.
Remember that Christ tells us that we will be judged by how we judge others. If that's OK with you, to be judged on others on hearsay and not from knowing you personally, then fine.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
We did fill the harddrive on the server and David had to prune the posts. He says that he pruned everythign over 700 days old. Ughhhhhhhhh! A lot of lost stuff. It is amazing that we filled our drive though! God bless David for giving us this space!
Ahhh!!! Well, there goes some of my resources too ![[Frown]](frown.gif) Oh well. And Yes! God Bless David for all he does!
--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
Sadly, I think that we lost some of our archives last night Deb. I was posting and it gave me an error message that there was no more disk space on the server, I thought my post was gone. This morning The post was here but I could not see it and the board was being very eratic. I called David and he must have done something to get us back up, and my post was here but only half of it so I deleted it. I think that we filled the disk space on our server and David may have had to remove some of our archives. I was just looking for something else and could not find it. Kinda sad. I had posts on here back to 2002. It was quit handy not to have to do the leg work every time the same question came up! Oh, well. What are ya gonna do? I believe that thread is now gone forever.
ah, I should check my email. We did fill the harddrive on the server and David had to prune the posts. He says that he pruned everythign over 700 days old. Ughhhhhhhhh! A lot of lost stuff. It is amazing that we filled our drive though! God bless David for giving us this space!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Dear Heavenly Father,
You have shown us what is acceptable and what is unacceptable to You in Your Holy Word and That is our guide for all Truth. Too often we take the words of one who claims you over checking with what Your Word has to say. I pray that you will speak to the hearts of those who would put more stock in what 'men' may say over what Your Holy Word says. I pray that we would all 'test the spirits' before accepting what is said. Father, please help us All to be Good Bereans and open our hearts, ears, and eyes to what You would have us know. In Jesus Name I ask. Amen
Yes, sometimes the words of man can be very biased, with their own agenda in mind.
IP: Logged |
|
|
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Deb this is an old thread link where this was discussed here some years ago, but there are some interesting articles posted in it by Dale. I thought you might find it interesting reading. It sure made me to look again.
http://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003195#000007
Strange... today, this topic 'does not exist' ???? Did someone delete it? I was able to view it yesterday.
I was looking for the verse that says not to elevate what man says over what God says (I can't remember it!)
--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
|
posted
Dear Heavenly Father,
You have shown us what is acceptable and what is unacceptable to You in Your Holy Word and That is our guide for all Truth. Too often we take the words of one who claims you over checking with what Your Word has to say. I pray that you will speak to the hearts of those who would put more stock in what 'men' may say over what Your Holy Word says. I pray that we would all 'test the spirits' before accepting what is said. Father, please help us All to be Good Bereans and open our hearts, ears, and eyes to what You would have us know. In Jesus Name I ask. Amen
--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
This confusion is a reflection of Lewis's heretical stand on the atonement. He said, "The central Christian belief is that Christ's death has SOMEHOW put us right with God and given us a fresh start. Theories as to how it did this are another matter. ... Any theories we build up as to how Christ's death did all of this are, in my view, quite secondary..." (Mere Christianity, HarperSanFrancisco edition, 2001, pp. 54, 55, 56). This is heresy. God has revealed exactly what Christ did and what the atonement means. It is not a matter of theorizing or believing one "formula" over against another. The Bible says our salvation is a matter of a propitiation, a ransom, whereby our sins were washed away by Christ's bloody death, which was offered as a payment to satisfy God's holy Law. (January 16, 2006 http://www.wayoflife.org )
[/QUOTE]
I really think you are totally misunderstanding what CS Lewis is saying regarding this quote.
Lewis is just saying that people have built up theories on how Christ's atonement saves us, and that they are not of any importance. That's why he says they are secondary.
You are very quick to call people heretics.
He is just saying in another more educated language something of which I'm sure you already believe. That Christ's atonement is the primary reason we are saved.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
I Knew the spirit in me objected to seeing this movie, but I couldn't put my finger on exactly why. Here's a blurb from the Feb. Newsletter at Caphas Ministry:
quote:
SPEAKING OF NARNIA
Christ's parables did not contain a mixture of truth and paganism, but Lewis's stories unblushingly intertwine a few vague biblical themes with pagan mythology: nymphs, fauns (part man and part goat), dwarfs, centaurs (part man and part horse), Dryads (tree-women), and Naiads (well-women). All of these creatures are depicted as serving Aslan. Lewis presents the deeply heretical idea of good magic. He calls Aslan's power "Deep Magic" and Aslan's father's power as "Emperor's Magic." He introduces the vile pagan god Bacchus and his orgies as a desirable thing that was part of Narnia's past before the White Witch worked her spell. He presents the myth of "Father Christmas" as if it were innocent and wholesome. He teaches that Adam's first wife was not Eve but rather a woman named Lilith and that she was a witch.
As for the heart of the story, which is the death and resurrection of the lion Aslan, at best it is a corrupt depiction of Christ's salvation. Aslan dies and sheds his blood not to satisfy God's law but to satisfy the "Deep Power" and the White Witch.
This confusion is a reflection of Lewis's heretical stand on the atonement. He said, "The central Christian belief is that Christ's death has SOMEHOW put us right with God and given us a fresh start. Theories as to how it did this are another matter. ... Any theories we build up as to how Christ's death did all of this are, in my view, quite secondary..." (Mere Christianity, HarperSanFrancisco edition, 2001, pp. 54, 55, 56). This is heresy. God has revealed exactly what Christ did and what the atonement means. It is not a matter of theorizing or believing one "formula" over against another. The Bible says our salvation is a matter of a propitiation, a ransom, whereby our sins were washed away by Christ's bloody death, which was offered as a payment to satisfy God's holy Law. (January 16, 2006 http://www.wayoflife.org )
Softtouch, everyone doesn't need to imitate Christ's parables to get the same point across.
The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe is a "story" that gives people an example of Christ.
Many Old Testament stories also give us an example of Christ. Joseph, Moses, David, Ruth, Joshua, etc.
I like entering the Wardrobe to entering my prayer closet. When the children entered the Wardrobe they entered into battle, just as we enter into battle against Satan.
In the Bible, we are taught that once Adam and Eve sinned, that their dominion over the earth was forfeited/corrupted, and Satan became the prince of this world.
We are still a threat to Satan, just as the children were a threat to the White Witch.
The white witch was able to hold the one boy captive due to his agreement with her way of thinking and he ended up betraying his siblings.
When we agree with Satan we are also held captive.
Aslan is the one who established this Deep Power, just as God Almighty established the rules for Satan and mankind. The white witch was playing according to those rules. Satan must play according to God's rules. Satan just knows how to play us and get us deceived.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
My point is that Ray Comfort must be supporting the movie. He has such high Christian morels he certainly wouldn't be making positive comments about a 'pagan mythology.'
He is the type of person who would be on the rooftop waving banners and telling people to repent for even thinking about going to such a movie, if he thought it were morally corrupt.
IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
Ray Comfort does a better job than most I have heard at giving the whole Gospel, to include bringing people to face their sin and calling them to rempentance. This is a big plus today in my book when even using the word sin is taboo in some churches.
Comfort does do that in this clip as well. I personally think he does a better job without making Narnia a prelude to it, but I suppose that this draws people to hear that are already drawn to the Movie. That is a good thing.
Plus I am quite sure Kurt Cameron gets high praise from Disney for helping to keep Christian parents buying their moivies even though their support and promotion of the homsexual agenda is an abomination to God I am sure.
But I would not call that a commentry on Narnia; what is your point HisGrace?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
Many posters on this Board have very high respect for Ray Comfort and his fire and brimstone type of message. Please listen to his commentary about Narnia.
The Narnia Story
IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
God Bless you sister. I am sure that our God was with you and allowed you to witness as you did in spite of the enemy!
How glorious is our LORD!
But we do have to be so aware of the enemies wiles these days and it is going to get much worse I fear. The time is very short I think. He is so cunning, and so subtle and he comes as an angel of light!
We have to guard our minds and our hearts.
The deceptions that are coming one day are so greatly deceptive that if they could be even the elect of God would be deceived. It all begins with conditioning our minds to say... oh.. that is nothing... like the proverbial frog the boils in pot heated ever so slowly to boiling.
Praise God for HIS Spirit that seals us that we cant be deceived completely or forever that He doesnt come drag us back where we belong, but sadly there are many who believe that they are saved and are not who will be deceived.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Pleasemaranatha
Advanced Member
Member # 5150
|
posted
Thanks for posting all of this. I missed alot and looked at it too lightly when viewing the movie. I never read the books. This board is a real help to learn truths.
God Bless you and yours
--------------------
My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning. Psalms 130 verse 6
Joyce
Posts: 308 | From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
Lewis and Tolkien have been discussed here though, so you may not find a Narina link you will find information on CS Lewis and Tolkien.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
|
posted
Very interesting and eye opening! Thanks for the link Sis!
I tried searching for an existing thread on Narnia but couldn't find one. I was a little surprised it hadn't been discussed here.
--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
|
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
|
posted
I Knew the spirit in me objected to seeing this movie, but I couldn't put my finger on exactly why. Here's a blurb from the Feb. Newsletter at Caphas Ministry:
quote:
SPEAKING OF NARNIA
Christ's parables did not contain a mixture of truth and paganism, but Lewis's stories unblushingly intertwine a few vague biblical themes with pagan mythology: nymphs, fauns (part man and part goat), dwarfs, centaurs (part man and part horse), Dryads (tree-women), and Naiads (well-women). All of these creatures are depicted as serving Aslan. Lewis presents the deeply heretical idea of good magic. He calls Aslan's power "Deep Magic" and Aslan's father's power as "Emperor's Magic." He introduces the vile pagan god Bacchus and his orgies as a desirable thing that was part of Narnia's past before the White Witch worked her spell. He presents the myth of "Father Christmas" as if it were innocent and wholesome. He teaches that Adam's first wife was not Eve but rather a woman named Lilith and that she was a witch.
As for the heart of the story, which is the death and resurrection of the lion Aslan, at best it is a corrupt depiction of Christ's salvation. Aslan dies and sheds his blood not to satisfy God's law but to satisfy the "Deep Power" and the White Witch.
This confusion is a reflection of Lewis's heretical stand on the atonement. He said, "The central Christian belief is that Christ's death has SOMEHOW put us right with God and given us a fresh start. Theories as to how it did this are another matter. ... Any theories we build up as to how Christ's death did all of this are, in my view, quite secondary..." (Mere Christianity, HarperSanFrancisco edition, 2001, pp. 54, 55, 56). This is heresy. God has revealed exactly what Christ did and what the atonement means. It is not a matter of theorizing or believing one "formula" over against another. The Bible says our salvation is a matter of a propitiation, a ransom, whereby our sins were washed away by Christ's bloody death, which was offered as a payment to satisfy God's holy Law. (January 16, 2006 http://www.wayoflife.org )
--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
