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Topic: Harry Potter
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ethan:
See, what people that bash Harry Potter fail to understand is that in Lord of the Rings, Gandalf is a good wizard. He pratices magic and uses it frequently. So what is the difference between him and Harry or any other of the good wizards. I know there's no such thing as a good magic user in real life, but this is pure fantasy.
Welcome Ethan.
It really concerns me that J.K. Rowling has done great indepth research into witchcraft etc. and it is heavily threaded thoughout her books and the movies.
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Ethan
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posted
See, what people that bash Harry Potter fail to understand is that in Lord of the Rings, Gandalf is a good wizard. He pratices magic and uses it frequently. So what is the difference between him and Harry or any other of the good wizards. I know there's no such thing as a good magic user in real life, but this is pure fantasy.
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There are but two powers in the world, the sword and the mind. In the long run the sword is always beaten by the mind. - Napoleon Bonaparte
Posts: 2 | From: AZ | Registered: Dec 2005
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chaoschristian
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posted
quote:
The only argument or evidence needed is that The Scriptures declare a thing is wrong or right!
You really have a knack for missing the point. The case at hand has nothing to do with whether or not Harry Potter is right or wrong in the eyes of the scripture. The case at hand is whether or not there is a direct correlation between HP and practicing the occult. While scripture can tell you whether or not HP is right or wrong, it cannot help you one bit in order to prove or refute this point. Please stop trying to change the subject.
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The problem is you and many others have bought into the feel good Gospel of today, preached by Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, .... just say a little prayer and your saved
You assume too much! And in as much as you do you slip very easily into a ad hominem attack on me, which seems to be a very popular tactic around here. Rather than get defensive and revert to childish attacks, why not take the time to actually think through a rebuttal that makes some sense?
quote:
Salvation is not about you and I and what we can get out of Yahweh "GOD"
Salvation is about "The Kingdom of Heaven"
Salvation is about "The Lamb that is worthy of all Praise, Honor, Power and Glory that is due HIM" !
Salvation from Yahweh through HIS SON Yeshua is through the Blood only, but without repentance
( a complete change of direction) there is no Salvation
Something we can agree on, but since you bring these points up more as an extension of the personal attack you launched on me, rather than as a means of rebutting any of my earlier points, they are hardly relevant to the discussion at hand.
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You can continue to deceive yourself and watch Harry Potter and the like but on “Judgment day” you will be without excuse…
Did you bother to read my earlier posts? Let me make this clear to you now, so that you can stop digressing to it and get to the real discussion at hand - I am NOT a fan of Harry Potter. I've read exactly two pages of the 1st book and stopped when I realized JKR's writing style was putting me to sleep. I have seen parts of two of the movies, but I do not continue to watch them, as I'm rather unimpressed and can't be bothered. You cannot construe any part of my arguments here as a defense of Harry Potter or the occult. So stop it.
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
Posts: 109 | From: Snack Food Capital of the World (Hanover, PA for those of you who don't know) | Registered: Nov 2005
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
You can continue to deceive yourself and watch Harry Potter and the like but on “Judgment day” you will be without excuse…
I would be careful about making such rash statements becauseHElives. You are not God. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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becauseHElives
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quote:
logical argument and valid evidence.
The only argument or evidence needed is that The Scriptures declare a thing is wrong or right!
The problem is you and many others have bought into the feel good Gospel of today, preached by Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, .... just say a little prayer and your saved
Salvation is not about you and I and what we can get out of Yahweh "GOD"
Salvation is about "The Kingdom of Heaven"
Salvation is about "The Lamb that is worthy of all Praise, Honor, Power and Glory that is due HIM" !
Salvation from Yahweh through HIS SON Yeshua is through the Blood only, but without repentance
( a complete change of direction) there is no Salvation
You can continue to deceive yourself and watch Harry Potter and the like but on “Judgment day” you will be without excuse…
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles. (Rom 1:18-23)
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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chaoschristian
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becauseHelives wrote:
quote:
This was not addressed to me but I have one comment in the form of a question back to you!
Does the watching of pornography have any effect on those that watch it?
Or do you disagree with the experts on this also.
I'm sure watching pornography has all sorts of effects on the people who watch it. Regarding the experts, since you do not state what they claim, I cannot agree or disagree with them.
But your example is irrelevant. I never claimed that watching or reading Harry Potter had no effect on the person watching or reading. I challenged the assertion that there is a direct correlation between a child doing so and either joining Wicca or practicing the occult. That claim, by the way, has yet to be supported by meaningful evidence. In fact, some of the evidence presented actually helps to refute the claim.
Understand this, if you're going to make a public claim about something, then you better be prepared to back if up with a logical argument and valid evidence.
In this case it was claimed that there was a direct correlation between a child watching or reading Harry Potter and either joining Wicca or practicing the occult. I challenged that claim. My challenge has gone unrefuted.
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
Posts: 109 | From: Snack Food Capital of the World (Hanover, PA for those of you who don't know) | Registered: Nov 2005
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chaoschristian
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quote:
If you are trying to see what you can get away with and still go to heaven, that shows that you don't really know Jesus Christ. If you did you would want to please Him because you love Him. Not try and see how far you can get and still be saved.
You are assuming too much. Do you actually think I'm defending Harry Potter here? I don't even like Harry Potter. I once attempted to read the first book and found JKR's style rather boring.
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It is not up to me (thank the Lord) to know who is saved. But the Bible tells use how to know and that is by the fruit they produce. If you love the things of the devil then that tell me, if I we you I would rethink if I ever really came to know Jesus Christ.
Yet you're pretty quick to pass judgment aren't you. Worse yet, you do it in a cowardly, backhanded way.
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Only those that are truely born-again will enter into the kingdom of heaven. To be born again is a lot more then just knowing ABOUT Jesus.
While true how is this relevant to the discussion unless you intend to somehow label me as someone who is not truly born-again?
quote:
Please think about it
Think about this: rather than make a serious attempt at refuting my point, you instead attempt to slander my character.
Did you ever once consider that this wasn't about whether or not Harry Potter was acceptable, but rather whether it is acceptable to carelessly fling logical fallacies about and then hide behind a screen of scriptual self-righteousness?
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
Posts: 109 | From: Snack Food Capital of the World (Hanover, PA for those of you who don't know) | Registered: Nov 2005
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HisGrace
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posted
Prov.23:77 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
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becauseHElives
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posted
Amen David, Drew, His Grace
quote:
chaoschristian
Now I ask you, how is one harder for the adult reader to absorb than the other? How is one too much than the other?
Please substantiate your claim. Can you prove that there is a direct correlation between a child watching the HP movies or reading the books and a definite tendency to either become Wiccan or practice the occult?
This was not addressed to me but I have one comment in the form of a question back to you!
Does the watching of pornography have any effect on those that watch it?
Or do you disagree with the experts on this also.
What goes into the belly does not defile a man but that which goes into his mind?
quote:
chaoschristian
Now I ask you, how is one harder for the adult reader to absorb than the other? How is one too much than the other?
The Scriptures teach us what Yahweh hates and is Spiritually discerned
Harry Potter and such is also spiritually discerned, just by a different spirit
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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May God bless you Greg.
It is not about being right or wrong, but is about seeking God first in our hearts, our lives and our perceptions.
As Believers it is critical to filter choices through the Word and ascertain what is beneficial and what is detrimental. It is so often difficult to make the right choices, and to be aware of the consequences of what the world declares popular and innocent.
Like an archer shooting at a target out of range, every day I fall so far short of God's mark. Praise God we have forgiveness for our short-comings, through Christ.
Our faith in today's society is assaulted on a thousand fronts, and most are very innocent appearing and covert in nature. There is such a concern how subtle influences can create a slippery slope into areas of danger.
I have had alot of years but this old greybeard won't get it right until this imperfection one glorious day puts on perfection.
Brother Greg our only hope lies in Christ Jesus our Lord, and His perfect will and eternal love for His children.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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oneyearandcounting
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David and Drew
I am going to do something that I haven't seen to many people that are Christians do.
I'm wrong, Your right.
Thank you both.
God bless
greg
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Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.
Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005
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Caretaker
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Amen David!!!!!!!
How many seminaries, cathedrals, progressive churches would reject Brother Paul, an Edwards, a Moody?
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
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GREAT NEED!
We need a baptism of clear seeing. We desperately need "Seers" who can see through the mist. Christian leaders with prophetic vision. Unless they come soon it will be to late for this generation.
And if they do come, we will no doubt crucify a few of them in the name of our worldly orthodoxy.
Thoughts for Today
There is no place in the bible
where it says you can receive
the Lord and be saved tomorrow,
If you reject Him today.
It is the height of folly and the
most dangerous business, to
know the truth and not act on
it. God will hold you accountable
for all that you know, and for
all that you could know if you
were really interested in
finding out.
You are not a sinner because you
sin, but you sin because you are a
sinner. You are not what you are
because of what you do, but you
do what you do because of what
you are. You are not a liar
because you lie, but you lie
because you are a liar.
By A.W.Tozer
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
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quote:
The point being this, when we as Christians make statements about who can understand what, we look like fools in the eyes of Average Joe, and give him one more reason not to pay any attention to us.
Actually when the Average Joe sees people who claim to be Christians at the witchcraft movies it makes them thank all Christian are fakes and really confuses them.
Revelation 3:14-17 (NIV)
“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.
The name “Laodicea” means “the rule of the people” and suggests a democratic church that no longer follows spiritual leaders or the authority of the Word of God. The church is lukewarm, a condition that comes from mixing hot and cold. It is a church with truth that has been diluted with error. The tragedy is that this church is “rich” and knows not that it is poor, pitiful, blind, and naked. What a picture of the apostate church of today, with its prestige, wealth, and political power, yet all the while spiritually poor.
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
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chaoschristian,
If you are trying to see what you can get away with and still go to heaven, that shows that you don't really know Jesus Christ. If you did you would want to please Him because you love Him. Not try and see how far you can get and still be saved.
It is not up to me (thank the Lord) to know who is saved. But the Bible tells use how to know and that is by the fruit they produce. If you love the things of the devil then that tell me, if I we you I would rethink if I ever really came to know Jesus Christ.
Only those that are truely born-again will enter into the kingdom of heaven. To be born again is a lot more then just knowing ABOUT Jesus.
Please think about it,
David
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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http://www.carm.org/wicca/youth.htm
In fact, so pervasive is this appeal among the youth, that bookstores are now selling books on witchcraft aimed at the youth.
“This New Age "spell'' is among dozens of mystical exercises laid out, cookbook style, in Teen Witch: Wicca for a New Generation, a 250-page handbook that is flying off the shelves at Borders, Barnes & Noble, and other mainstream stores. Written for 10- to 17-year-olds by New Age author Silver Ravenwolf (a Wiccan pseudonym), it boasts everything a kid needs to become "a pentacle-wearing, spell-casting, completely authentic witch!" That includes instructions for such uniquely teen rituals as the Bad Bus Driver spell, the Un-Ground Me spell, and the Just-Say-No spell.”1
"Spellbound: The Teenage Witch's Wiccan Handbook" by Teresa Moorey (Ulysses Press, $12.95).
"Witchcraft is not just for adults anymore," shouts the press release for this bright, upbeat book written by British astrologer and "experienced white witch" Moorey...The book explains how you, too, can become a very good witch. It tells you how to cast spells to capture a boyfriend or pass your driver's test. The book contains a fairly interesting history of witches (which witch is which!) and goddess worship through the ages. Yet it goes around the bend when it embarks on instruction in "The Craft," including magick spells, witchcraft crafts and how teens can celebrate major Wicca festivals."2
Wicca is a fast growing religion. Some have said that it is the fastest growing religion in America. Whether or not that is true, the fact remains that the number one source of numbers in the Wiccan ranks, are the young. Please consider this small portion of transcript taken from an NPR (National Public Radio) report done on May 13, 2004. The Profile was "Teen-age Wiccans" on All Things Considered.
"It's hard to know the exact numbers, but Wicca is believed to be one of the fastest-growing religions among high school and college students. This form of witchcraft, with its reverence for the earth and nature, appeals to young environmentalists. And Wicca's emphasis on a goddess, as well as a god, draws young girls. Today, the final part of our series on religious trends in America. NPR's Barbara Bradley Hagerty talks to teen-agers in Colorado about the lure of Wicca."
"HAGERTY: Most teen Wiccans are not out of the broom closet. In part, because of that, it's hard to know how many teens are involved in Wicca. Estimates range from 50,000 to 150,000.
"HAGERTY: "The Craft," a little-known movie among adults, was a hit among teen-age girls, and changed the way they thought about witches.
"HAGERTY: The majority of young witches are girls, which may be why Mattel introduced Secret Spells Barbie at Halloween last year. The doll came with witch costume, cauldron and magic powder. For many young witches, their community is the Internet, where they swap e-mails, ideas and spells. The most popular site . . . lists more than 250 college groups and nearly 400 teen-age groups. And there's been a veritable tidal wave of new books aimed at teen-agers interested in Wicca.
Can there be any doubt that our youth are at risk at being entrapped in the occult? It is a disturbing trend to see youthful exuberance and curiosity be turned into the dark paths of Wiccan theology, its witchcraft, it spells, and it's incantations. The same youth who seek to have influence, control, and identity, often lack the critical faculties to rationally examine the validity of philosophical system. But what would we expect in a postmodern society where truth is not absolute? With the foundation of truth undermined by replacing it with subjectivity, there is no accountability, the responsibility, and no consequence. At least, that is what many people like to believe.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
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I guess all we can do is pray for Average Joe because there is a veil over his eyes.
2 Cor. 3:14
But the people's minds were hardened, and even to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, a veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ
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chaoschristian
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Average Joe may not understand or even believe in occult influence in HP. But he can still read it.
Average Joe may not understand or even believe in God's influence in the Bible. But he can still read it.
So you say to Average Joe on the steet, "Don't read Harry Potter, it's influenced by the occult and you can't understand that."
To which Average Joe responds, "So, I read the Bible and I don't understand that either."
The fact is Average Joe can understand both.
The point being this, when we as Christians make statements about who can understand what, we look like fools in the eyes of Average Joe, and give him one more reason not to pay any attention to us.
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
Posts: 109 | From: Snack Food Capital of the World (Hanover, PA for those of you who don't know) | Registered: Nov 2005
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by chaoschristian:
Now I ask you, how is one harder for the adult reader to absorb than the other? How is one too much than the other?
The average Joe may not be aware of the influence, because the enemy plays very subtle tricks in our minds.
Evil forces are prevalent in the occult, so the enemy is certainly going to be lurking around planting as much seed as he can.
I don't how these books or movies end, but the Wicca, etc. overtones throughout certainly open the door to who knows what.
The Bible is God-inspired, so His influence is going to be prevalent in the reading of the Bible.
You even admitted yourself."Yes, in the end we see that its obediance to God that counts and that those who disobey God, even His appointed kings, get theirs in the end."
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chaoschristian
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His Grace:
You didn't really answer the question.
Let me try again.
Average Joe reads a HP novel and sees Harry overcome the antagonist, through a combination of courage, integrity and mutual reliance on community. Yes, there is an edge to the writing - its intense, its thrilling, its scary - just as the author intended
Average Joe reads some text of the OT and sees God's appointed kings running around plotting murder, committing adultery and engaging in mayhem all to fulfill personal gain. Yes, in the end we see that its obediance to God that counts and that those who disobey God, even His appointed kings, get theirs in the end.
Now I ask you, how is one harder for the adult reader to absorb than the other? How is one too much than the other?
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
Posts: 109 | From: Snack Food Capital of the World (Hanover, PA for those of you who don't know) | Registered: Nov 2005
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by chaoschristian:
Human sacrifice. Dark plots. These same themes are to be found within the Bible as well. According to you the Bible should be too much for the adult mind to absorb, let alone innocent children.
Are you suggesting that we then stop reading the Bible?
All of the stories in the Bible show how God can overcome evil. They teach us to turn to Him and have total faith in Him to conquer every battle.
When I read the Bible I am not despressed, but feel uplifted with renewed faith and trust.
God provided a way for us to totally defeat the prince of this world through the blessed blood of Jesus. The New Testament is filled with weapons of to help us overcome evil powers, not to partake in them.
I see a message of Hope in the Bible for my own personal life.
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chaoschristian
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His Grace posted:
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
Many parents probably don't realize that J K Rowlin has done extensive research in the occult, wicca and witchcraft to write her books.
Her books have progressed to murder and someone has said that is even human sacrifice is touched on or shown in at least one of her books..
A few books ago she admitted that her writings would progress to deeper and darker plots.
The fact that these movies have a PG rating should send out warning bells to parents. Why should one have to be concerned about parental guidance to take a child to a 'children's' movie?
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These books and movies have gone far, far beyond fluffy fairy tales like Wizard of Oz and Cinderalla.
His Grace wrote:
quote:
Bottom line - the research into the depths of the occult applied to the Harry Potter books and movies is too much for the adult mind to absorb, let alone the minds of innocent children.
Murder. Human sacrifice. Dark plots. These same themes are to be found within the Bible as well. According to you the Bible should be too much for the adult mind to absorb, let alone innocent children.
Are you suggesting that we then stop reading the Bible?
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
Posts: 109 | From: Snack Food Capital of the World (Hanover, PA for those of you who don't know) | Registered: Nov 2005
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chaoschristian
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Caretaker:
I read carefully through the evidence that you provided to support your claim that there is a direct correlation between a child's exposure to HP and joining Wicca or practicing the occult.
Yet the statements provided in your evidence prove otherwise, If Wicca does not allow children to join its groups, then how can they (the children) be bonifide practictioners? If anything what you provided supports that the Wiccas DON'T WANT these children.
Now, HP is geared towards what -12 to 14 year olds? That gives a twelve year old 6 years before they can join Wicca. In that 6 years do you think that child will maintain his interest in HP? Will the novels be as big a thing in 6 years as they are now? I think we can all testify that what interested at 12 us did not interest us as much, if at all, at 18.
So while you provided alot of information, I don't think you've substantiated your claim.
Also, you have not yet responded to my point regarding your ad hominem attack on another member of this board.
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
Posts: 109 | From: Snack Food Capital of the World (Hanover, PA for those of you who don't know) | Registered: Nov 2005
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HisGrace
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This cultish atmosphere has no attraction for me. Just watching the deep and dark images of predominately black turn me against its plot. Once we live in the light of Jesus, life becomes very distasteful and imcompatible with the dark.
John 3:21
But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
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Caretaker
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Dear Greg;
There is a great willingness to compromise in the Body today. Far too many are supporting that which glorifies that which is anathema to God.
Harry Potter glorifies a multitude of occultic forms, and the lesson to children is supportive of such groups as Wicca, and other present day occult areas. The books are encouraged in the schools and it opens the hearts of children to the supernatural influences of the demonic.
It opens the door for young children to seek-out and explore occult areas:
"According to Mr Smith, children who had enjoyed the magic and wizardry of the stories should be careful about extending their interest in the occult. Although saying that the stories were a positive way of showing the struggle between good and evil, he was worried that they could be used as a springboard for exploring more sinister aspects of the occult. And he warned that children could be using the internet to learn more about "meddling" with the supernatural. "Increasing numbers of children are spending hours alone browsing the Internet in search of satanic websites. ATL is concerned that nobody is monitoring this growing fascination." (BBC News Online, Harry Potter 'Occult' Warning, Monday 5 November, full article at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/education/newsid_1638000/1638887.stm)
There are a few voices crying in the wilderness, but far too many taking their children by the hand, buying the books, and entering the movie houses. This enables evil to prosper, and opens the heart of children to iniquity.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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oneyearandcounting
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SO if I watch this movie I am going to Hell. Does this go for the people who watch Shows on TV.
Or watch Disney movies.
How about the people who will watch the Narnia movies.I guess they are ok huh.
Hmmm Then we have the greatest collection of Christain fiction the Left Behind books. Lets just say that the Rapture is not pre trib. This is safe to say because well the Bible isn't really clear is it. Now if and I am saying if the rapture is lets say mid trib wouldn't all the people who have supported these books and movies be in big trouble.
I mean if they knew Jesus then they wouldn't have bought the books. But they did. Not trying to start an arguement. Just trying to prove a point that I can garantee will not be gotten.
Oh well I guess I'll go back to just being me. I hope that Our Lord and savior will forgive me for watching the HP movie. But since it seems I don't know him will one of you pray for me please.
Jesus please forgive me a sinner,
greg
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Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.
Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005
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oneyearandcounting
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Am I born again. Yes I am.
Did I read the Potter books? Yes I did.
Did I go see the newest movie? Yes I did.
Do I have children? yes I do.
Do they read the books? The ones that can read yes.
Did we go see the new movie together? Yes we did.
DO You know why? It is because I am secure enough in my love of Christ to know that I am covered by his blood. I also am a good enough parent to know that my children understand that the movies and books are make believe.
Tell me I'm a terrible person if you must even a terrible parent.
If you are a smart Christian you would realize how to use this to reach out to the unsaved in the world. Or you can sit back and say people like me aren't saved and we are doing the work of Satan. That is up to you.
By the way the movie wasn't that bad at all. I give it maybe 6 stars.
God bless
greg
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Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.
Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005
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Caretaker
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"The Pagan Federation, which represents druids and witches, says it has been "swamped" with calls following teenage programmes featuring good witches. Speaking to BBC News Online the Pagan Federation's Steve Paine, the high priest of a coven, said the hit US drama Buffy and the highly successful Harry Potter books were popular amongst practising witches. "They are taken as fantasy entertainment. But they do encourage people to think about different forms of spirituality", he said. The Pagan Federation, which deals with about 100 enquiries a month from youngsters who want to become witches, does not allow anyone under the age of 18 to become a member." Most of the enquiries are from 14 to 18 year-olds, and are dealt with "reactively" by a specially-appointed youth officer, an Essex based schoolteacher." (BBC News Online, Buffy Draws Children to Witchcraft, Friday, 4 August, 2000, Full article at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/newsid_864000/864984.stm).
"According to Mr Smith, children who had enjoyed the magic and wizardry of the stories should be careful about extending their interest in the occult. Although saying that the stories were a positive way of showing the struggle between good and evil, he was worried that they could be used as a springboard for exploring more sinister aspects of the occult. And he warned that children could be using the internet to learn more about "meddling" with the supernatural. "Increasing numbers of children are spending hours alone browsing the Internet in search of satanic websites. ATL is concerned that nobody is monitoring this growing fascination." (BBC News Online, Harry Potter 'Occult' Warning, Monday 5 November, full article at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/education/newsid_1638000/1638887.stm)
"With the growing popularity of youth-oriented TV shows on witchcraft -- 'Sabrina, the Teenage Witch;' 'Charmed;' 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' -- a generation of children is becoming desensitized to the occult. But with Hollywood's help, Harry Potter will likely surpass all these influences, potentially reaping some grave spiritual consequences."
Quote from John Andrew Murray, headmaster of the Episcopal school St. Timothy's-Hale, Raleigh, N.C., & writer/director of the video "Think About It: Understanding the Impact of TV-Movie Violence," As quoted in "Latest 'Harry Potter' book meets cautionary response from Christians" by Art Toalston, Baptist Press, July 13, 2000
http://www.blessedcause.org/protest/Harry%20Potter%20promotes%20Wiccan.htm
Harry Potter books have helped increase interest in witchcraft around the world, say representatives of a Wiccan group sponsoring a witch convention in Scotland this summer.
The Wiccan group, Children of Artemis, has coordinated this year's local gathering of witches to be held in Glasgow, Scotland.
"There is a growing interest in the Wiccan religion, and there are thousands of us already in Scotland," organizer Pauline Reid told the London Sunday Mail.
"Harry Potter has also had a positive effect. But we don't let anybody join until they are 18."
Scotland's "Witchfest" will take place at Langside Halls in Glasgow next month, and a Europe-wide gathering will take place in London in November. The Children of Artemis say it will be the largest European witchcraft and Wicca event in recorded history.
The group touts the coming Witchfest as "an amazing event, with talks, workshops, stalls and great entertainment."
"My greatest concern is that godly fear that protects mankind from dabbling in the spirit world is being taken away from children who read these Harry Potter books. The terrors and horrors of black magic and occult practice, rituals, ceremonies and demon possession are being normalized," Matrisciana said.
"Alarmingly, the Potter books are engaging in pagan discipleship, disciplining our children to spiritual alternatives and also turning them away from the biblical principles and God's protection."
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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chaoschristian
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Caretaker wrote:
"One should note that jackanapes is not a born-again Christian and so he speaks from the secular perspective. His heart and perceptions are being influenced by the god of this world."
You are engaging in an ad hominem attack upon jackanapes. His point is no less valid simply because you claim he is not a born-again Christian. Are you also therefore claiming that your points are more valid because you claim to be a born-again Christian?
Caretaker wrote:
"Harry Potter desensitizes children to the true evil in occultic practices. It also opens the door to such abomination as Wicca, which has seen an upsurge in popularity among school-age children."
Please substantiate your claim. Can you prove that there is a direct correlation between a child watching the HP movies or reading the books and a definite tendency to either become Wiccan or practice the occult.
I look forward to your reply.
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
Posts: 109 | From: Snack Food Capital of the World (Hanover, PA for those of you who don't know) | Registered: Nov 2005
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Caretaker
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One should note that jackanapes is not a born-again Christian and so he speaks from the secular perspective. His heart and perceptions are being influenced by the god of this world.
Harry Potter desensitizes children to the true evil in occultic practices. It also opens the door to such abomination as Wicca, which has seen an upsurge in popularity among school-age children.
This series puts a fantasy-like spin upon that which is true evil, and then is distributed and justified to those most vulnerable and susceptable to its influence.
Romans 1:
18: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19: Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20: For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22: Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23: And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24: Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
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Bottom line - the research into the depths of the occult applied to the Harry Potter books and movies is too much for the adult mind to absorb, let alone the minds of innocent children.
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Jackanapes
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Just because it is a fairy tale, it doesn't make it all fluffy. After all, if there were no sinister villian in these tales, the heroes wouldn't appear so heroic now would they?
I remember being scared half to death of The Wizard of Oz. What with the witch flinging fireballs, and those creepy winged monkeys tearing the scarecrow apart, AND I remember the terror I felt of not knowing what would happen to Dorothy when the sand ran out of that hourglass.
Spooky, but fun none the less.
Watching Goblet of Fire will not make you a practitioner of witchcraft anymore than watching The Ten Commandments would make you a christian.
The"bondage" of Harry Potter is driving tons of kids to kick back with a book, and become more literate. Christian children who treat themselves to such stories will no doubt hunger for more exciting stories, but yearn for ones of substance that benefit them in real life. After all, it'll be a rare child indeed that walks away from that book thinking he, or she could solve their problems with a magic wand.
I can't imagine that one's faith could be shattered by fairy tales, or that one could watch these films, and feel they are being influenced to commit ritual sacrifice. People that easily influenced are going to commit atrocities, no matter the source material.
If there is anything these stories impart to children it is the importance of integrity, honesty, and belief in yourself.
What's so terrible about that?
Posts: 6 | From: Ohio | Registered: Nov 2005
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
Many parents probably don't realize that J K Rowlin has done extensive research in the occult, wicca and witchcraft to write her books.
Her books have progressed to murder and someone has said that is even human sacrifice is touched on or shown in at least one of her books..
A few books ago she admitted that her writings would progress to deeper and darker plots.
The fact that these movies have a PG rating should send out warning bells to parents. Why should one have to be concerned about parental guidance to take a child to a 'children's' movie?
These books and movies have gone far, far beyond fluffy fairy tales like Wizard of Oz and Cinderalla.
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becauseHElives
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Anyone that is saved would have no desire for the things of Satan.
We need to guit trying to convince unsaved, unregenerated men and women that they are saved and point them to Calvary, to Yashua that has paid the debt for their freedom from such bondage as "Harry Potter" and the like. ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
Gal 5:18-24
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
IF YOU BELONG TO CHRIST YOU HAVE CRUCIFIED THE FLESH
and continue to do so daily by walking after the Spirit.
NOT WALKING AFTER "HARRY POTTER" AND SUCH LIKE!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Jackanapes
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Why would anyone take their child to see this?
Because it is fantasy/make-believe/imaginary fun!
It is important to illustrate to children that the wold of dreamy fairy tales are just that, and nothing more, but they are worth noting.
Why you say?
Have you forgotten altogether what it was like to be a child? To be young at heart is to believe in the better nature of people, and there are boundless lessons in this world of harsh consequences, and certainly not adequate time spent left alone to contemplate the perfectly useless, but entertaining.
People these days startle their children from sleep to hurry them through a whole day through of activities to busy them until they are back in bed before they know what happened.
It ain't right says I.
In the early years plenty of time should be allotted for wakeful aknowledgement of what is real, and what is perfectly imaginary.
I have watched these movies, and each one is as delightful as The Wizard of Oz, or a great many other fun movies to watch, and no harm would befall any kid who killed a couple hours watching ths flick with a bucket of popcorn.
They are just movies after all, and nothing more. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 6 | From: Ohio | Registered: Nov 2005
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HisGrace
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There is another thread concerning Harry Potter on this forum and here is a quote I made from someone on another message board -
quote:
Here is a quote regarding the movie titled The Prisoner of Azkaban -
"Yeah, we went on Friday night to the premiere. It was very different from the previous two movies in the Harry Potter series. The movie started out funny, but it quickly went spooky and sinister. It was darker, scarier with the attacking werewolf, axing of the hippogryph, the dementors sucking out souls, and the "grim", a scary looking dog/wolf with flashing eyes. The movie was quite different from the book. There were alot of children there, and it probably scared the pants off most of them. I wouldn't recommend it for young children."
This is the kind of heresy really disturbs me. Millions of books are being sold and corrupting innocent children with contamination of satanic witchcraft, sorcery, enchanters and necromancy, that even an adult mind has difficulty handling. Not only that, graphic movies are being produced in the name of innocent entertainment
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HisGrace
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Yet another Harry Potter movie has just opened in the theatres. 'The Goblet of Fire.'
Many parents probably don't realize that J K Rowlin has done extensive research in the occult, wicca and witchcraft to write her books.
Her books have progressed to murder and someone has said that is even human sacrifice is touched on or shown in at least one of her books..
A few books ago she admitted that her writings would progress to deeper and darker plots.
The fact that these movies have a PG rating should send out warning bells to parents. Why should one have to be concerned about parental guidance to take a child to a 'children's' movie?
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