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» Christian Message Boards   » Miscellaneous   » Christian Video Clips, Movies , Church Webs TV   » No Oscar Nod For God?? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: No Oscar Nod For God??
mohawk
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At the risk of pouring either water or gasoline on this hot thread... here is a recent interview by Gibson himself, that seems to address the original topic here... I present it to round out all the diverse viewpoints that have been presented in this thread--I hope it helps the exchange.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/7/185117.shtml?j=832417&e=wonkavatorup@yahoo.com&l=143149_HTML&u=15609466

May God bless the discussion of His word.

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mohawk
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Talk about an eye-opener, I come back after a day or two and look at this thread... wow! Please don't think me a troublemaker. I believe my original topic was my own grousing over the Academy not even, grudgingly, giving Jim Caviezal a nomination for his portrayal of Jesus in this powerful movie.

I'd also like to add, in the spirit of the conversation that has resulted, that a piece of graffiti on a wall that says, "Got Jesus?" or anything to that effect, is no more biblical than "Passion" can claim to be... yet if one lost soul actually is led to seek the Lord out... pick up a Bible... step into a church... ask a Christian acquaintance about Jesus... all because of that graffiti... then you have seen the Lord at work. Praise Him. He is not limited by the self-created rules of engagement we imagine onto Him. If one soul was saved (whether there is a statistic showing it or not) because of "Passion," praise Him.

Jesus went to the cross to save us from a legalism we could never hope to live up to by our own power. In tearing down "Passion" because it doesn't comply with a legalistic viewpoint of how God OUGHT TO work, is like saying "You're not REALLY saved because you didn't receive Christ in the same church where I did."

If anything, it is foretold that the entire world will have heard of Jesus before He returns... "Passion" at least has served a part of Bible prophecy. I will never attempt to confine God's power down to my own limited vision of how He "should" operate or carry out His plan. If God has used "Passion" as a tool--depsite it ruffling the feathers of a few legalists, which apparently it has--then who can second-guess Him?

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Study
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Sounds like this trend needs a group hug and to move on.  -

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The book no Christian should be without!

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Gramajo320
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Volodymyrdolgoruki,

My eyes are quite wide open as to what are lies and deception and to what is the real truth. The Holy Spirit leads me in many ways and in many areas.

Au Revoir.

In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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volodymyrdolgoruki
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Gramajo320
I'm not trying to pick on you or upset you.

I FIRMLY believe
2 Timothy 3:16-17
(16) All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
(17) so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.


That is one problem I have with the movie, there is very very little scripture in it.

I'm as passionate against the movie as you are for it.


I also firmly believe
(2 Timothy 2:15) Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

God's Word MUST be accurately quoted and handled.

I don't like see God's Word being misquoted, however innocent or unintetioned it may be.


I will now depart in peace.


May God Bless you all beyond measure with His Wisdom.

May He give you all the Grace and strength to apply His Wisdom.

My He open all your eyes to lies and deceptions, gifting you with His discernment.

--------------------
Don't wish for a better day
Be glad and use the one you're in
Fear God and do exactly what He says
That's what matters
All else fades like the flowers

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Gramajo320
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Volodymyrdolgoruki,

Au Revoir!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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volodymyrdolgoruki
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You are right, The Holy Spirit NEVER misleads us, but that's not what you said.

You said
quote:
for He will never let any one be led in the wrong way.


--------------------
Don't wish for a better day
Be glad and use the one you're in
Fear God and do exactly what He says
That's what matters
All else fades like the flowers

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Gramajo320
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Volodymyrdolgoruki,

THE HOLY SPIRIT NEVER MISLEADS US! Your apparent continual desire to want only to debate and is very tiresome.

Now I'm telling you au revoir!

In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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volodymyrdolgoruki
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Gramajo320 wrote
quote:
for He will never let any one be led in the wrong way.
Not true
(Luke 21:8) And He said, "See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not go after them.

(Mark 13:6) "Many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He!' and will mislead many.

(Matthew 24:5) "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.

(Matthew 24:11) "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.

Matthew 24:24-25
(24) "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
(25) "Behold, I have told you in advance.



Gramajo320 also wrote
quote:
All good things work together for the glory of God
Not accurate

(Romans 8:28) And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

--------------------
Don't wish for a better day
Be glad and use the one you're in
Fear God and do exactly what He says
That's what matters
All else fades like the flowers

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Gramajo320
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Volodymyrdolgoruki,

I suggest again that you read the postings and that includes mine with understanding. Also please refrain from attempting to turn postings into a debate for that has definitely become quite tiresome. You seem to want to do that so much.

In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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volodymyrdolgoruki
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I have read them

So you won't answer my question then.

--------------------
Don't wish for a better day
Be glad and use the one you're in
Fear God and do exactly what He says
That's what matters
All else fades like the flowers

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Gramajo320
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Volodymyrdolgoruki,

Our Heavenly Father uses people and situations all around this world in order to accomplish what He wants to come to pass. The Holy Spirit leads
in order that our Heavenly Father's plans are accomplished. It is not up to us to question our Heavenly Father when he uses people or situations around the world for He will never let any one be led in the wrong way. All good things work together for the glory of God and that is what is most important. That includes The Passion Of The Christ. Also it is not up to us to judge or to tear down what our Heavenly Father has planned either. His will is what will be done.

You would do well to read Favorminded's and David's postings carefully.


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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volodymyrdolgoruki
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I did, he never addressed what I asked.

But what do you think?

--------------------
Don't wish for a better day
Be glad and use the one you're in
Fear God and do exactly what He says
That's what matters
All else fades like the flowers

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Gramajo320
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Voldoymyrdolgoruki,

Read Favorminded's postings.


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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volodymyrdolgoruki
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Gramajo320 and Favor Minded

I asked a question you never addressed.

quote:
Here's something to ponder.

If the movie had been more Bible, truth centered;
Less man made centered:

More the True Word of God in it;


(Romans 10:17)
So faith comes by hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the preaching [of the message that came from the lips] of Christ (the Messiah Himself).

(Hebrews 4:12) For the Word that God speaks is alive and full of power [making it active, operative, energizing, and effective]; it is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating to the dividing line of the breath of life (soul) and [the immortal] spirit, and of joints and marrow [of the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and sifting and analyzing and judging the very thoughts and purposes of the heart.


Could God haved used it even more powerfully?

Would it had made any difference?

Would more people come to faith?

Would more peoples faith grown?

Any comments?

--------------------
Don't wish for a better day
Be glad and use the one you're in
Fear God and do exactly what He says
That's what matters
All else fades like the flowers

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Gramajo320
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Volodymyrdolgoruki,

Yes I read every posting! Then I post! I didn't assume that you hadn't seen the movie! That is for those who haven't! Thank you!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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volodymyrdolgoruki
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Do you even read what people post before you add your opinion???

I SAID I SAW THE MOVIE

--------------------
Don't wish for a better day
Be glad and use the one you're in
Fear God and do exactly what He says
That's what matters
All else fades like the flowers

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Gramajo320
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The Passion Of The Christ still is to this day a powerful movie! Those who have not seen it should see it for themselves.


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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volodymyrdolgoruki
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I posted earlier
quote:
Show me IN SCRIPTURE where satan was in the garden of Gethsemane tempting Jesus?

The fulfilment of prophecy occueed ON THE CROSS
NOT in the Garden, but that doesn't really matter does it.


(Matthew 27:19) While he was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent him a message, saying, "Have nothing to do with that righteous Man; for last night I suffered greatly in a dream because of Him."

Why does the movie show her telling Pilate this in PERSON.
This point may be trivial, by couldn't he have used truth? Why did he have to cahange it??


In the garden of Gethsemane Mel added words to Jesus prayers that were NOT in the Bible.
Is The Truth not enough??



--------------------
Don't wish for a better day
Be glad and use the one you're in
Fear God and do exactly what He says
That's what matters
All else fades like the flowers

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Favor Minded
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I was looking for SPECIFIC non biblical??

Scriptural unsoundness...

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volodymyrdolgoruki
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I've seen the movie, so my "judgement" of containing to much extra Biblical, and non Biblical material is based on truth.

--------------------
Don't wish for a better day
Be glad and use the one you're in
Fear God and do exactly what He says
That's what matters
All else fades like the flowers

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Favor Minded
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Nobleweb -

First let me say if I offended you specifically I am wrong and ask your forgiveness - My intent was generalized, not at anyone specific.

If it appeared to be at you I am sorry.

I won't (Mostly because I've not time now) go into a long discussion but I will say this -

There IS NOTHING scripturally unsound -

I challenge ANYONE who is a parent to consider what they would be doing while they watched theor son endure what Jesus did.

Nudity? Where did you ever get the idea that you see his ...???

As you know, in those grave they wrapped them in "grave clothes" and entombed them.

What that scen does depict is those same grave clothes going flat as though he was miraculously transformed from a physically dead body to a living breathing body - As he stands we see the holes in his hands (A side note is the truth given that the holes were in his hands, not his wrosts as some movies have depicted)

For instance some people thoroughly approve of the Gospel of John - And I believe it was a great movie, and very evangelistic however the crucifixion was not scriptural because they used his wrists to appease the religions that subscribe to the idea that it was wrists and not hands, yet the word specifically states Hands, not wrists.

Anyway - I do not see the end as nudity - I saw the holes in his hands - If someone saw nudity, I fear they missed the point if the end.

If yo have not seen it - It is a must - Then you allow God to help you judge fairly.

Want to know what Jesus REALLY endured, instead of all those previous sugar coated movies - Remember, Isaiah said he would not be recognizable as a man, so really, in that sense, even The Passion did truly depict the what he endured, but it is a more moving, much closer depiction that any ever produced.

It serves to remind and help understand what he endured for us -

Watching him still love them even after all they had done, watching him willingly crawl onto the cross...

Well - Anyway - Off my soap box -

Again I did not mean to imply you were tearing it down - It was general in nature to anyone who would pick it apart instaed of see the depiction of the enormity of the sacrifice, the reminder, the truth about the suffering He endured for us...

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Gramajo320
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Nobleweb,

Favorminded was not trying to offend you in any way so please do not take offense to his posting.
Mel Gibson is a christian and it is only God who can judge anyone else's heart for He's the only one who knows everyone's heart!

In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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Gramajo320
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Before one judges the movie The Passion Of The Christ they should go see it for themselves and then and only then will they know what it's all about and what is truly depicted all throughout the movie.


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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Caretaker
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To Nobleweb;

God bless you and bless your questions. The scene of Jesus naked is in the reurrection sequence where the grave clothes are left behind and He arises naked and with a steely marital look on His face strides out of the tomb, and the rear area is shown.

It says that we Believers are clothed with robes of righteousness. In the very first appearances of Jesus following the resurrection He is never naked.


My deep and abiding concern is the source of the filler-extra Biblical content taken from Emmerich's visions. It is her visions, and Gibsons pre-vatican II doctrine through which the movie is filtered.

Please keep asking your questions, and may the true answers be forthcoming from His Word.

God bless.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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nobleweb
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To Study: Thank you for taking the time to address a few of my questions. I appreciate the effort! What you said is how I believe also.

To Favor Minded:

Perhaps you didn't mean to, but you hurt my feelings. At no time have I tried to "prevent something that placed Jesus Christ in the limelight". What I did was first explain why I personally hadn't seen the movie. Then after reading some "reviews", I expressed my concerns and asked some questions. Instead of explaining where I might have the wrong idea, or trying to answer any of my questions, you tell me my concerns and questions are just "plain stupid".

You have no way of knowing this, but the single Scripture in the Bible that "scared" me the most the first time I read it is the one that explains how some people will be "knocking on Heaven's door" but won't be allowed in. The reason this Scripture scared me is the fact that the people who are knocking are people who believe they are "right" with God. They are people who believe they did and said the right things during their time on this earth, and they believe they should be allowed into Heaven, yet Jesus turns them away. That prompts the question of how do you know you are not one of the people who will get turned away. How do you make sure you are indeed on the right and narrow path? The Bible tells us we can't trust our own hearts - which leaves us with the Scriptures to check/judge/test that which we see, hear and feel, and to teach us how to stay on the right path. So I started reading the Bible in a way I never had before - searching for understanding. If I am not destined to be with Jesus, I didn't want it to be because I didn't at least try my best to understand the truth.

As far as the movie goes, this is what I understand......... It was made by a man, who may or may not be a true Christian -- that is not my place to judge. But what I see is a man who shows two different faces to the world. One is that of a devout believer in God. He does "good works", and he makes a movie showing the sacrifice our Lord went through for us. The other is a man who says and does sinful things "in front of" millions of people all over the world. He does this for fame and fortune. He is a man of considerable clout in his field of expertise, one who has a good deal of control over aspects of his work other than just acting (such as producing, directing, etc.), and should be able to easily refrain from such performances that make sinful things look cool and desirable. Yet he CHOOSES to say and do things in his work that surely are offensive in God's sight. So when using discernment about a religious movie this man has made, do we judge the fruits of the believer, or the fruits of the man who willfully chooses to take God's name in vain for a buck?

As far as whether or not the movie is scripturally sound.........

quote:
"[A]fter the flagellation, I saw Claudia Procles, the wife of Pilate, send some large pieces of linen to the [u]Mother of God.[/u]
And from the other discussion of this movie...............

quote:
Furthermore, the only time Jesus showed everyone his *** was when he rode into Jerusalem on it on Palm Sunday. I am refering to the last scene in the movie. That was absurd....sick and just plain out wrong to depict our Lord and Saviour in nudity like that
quote:
Mel said that the only person who could see Satan was Mary, and even then, only out of the corner of her eye.
quote:

He claims to have gotten his insperation for the movie from the book "The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ" by Anne Catherine Emmerich.

The truth is he got a lot more than just insperation from this book... it is an almost exact copy of the book itself.

Is Mary presented as the "Mother of God" in the movie? Is she presented in an elevated place of importance in the movie? Is it true that only Mary can see satan? Does the movie show Jesus riding into Jerusalem naked? Does it closely follow the book by Emmerich? If so, then I would have to say those parts of the movie are not scripturally sound. At the very least, poetic license was taken in a way that does not seem very appropriate.

And as for "filler"...... is there not a scene involving a baby that looks old and has hair on it's back? Didn't this baby confuse people, prompting discussion of what it meant and represented? Did this "filler" glorify God? Or was it thrown in for it's cinematic sensationalism value? (The vision this summons in my head makes me think of today's horror movies. It does not sound like something I would enjoy remembering.) Perhaps a better "filler" would have been showing more of Jesus' life prior to His death. This might have given the viewer a better sense of His great love for us, and the kindness in how He treated the lowest of people. Perhaps God would have been better served had Mel shown more miracles Jesus performed, and what faith in Him gave the believer. Perhaps more of His preachings could have been included, and things presented in such a way that the average person could understand some of the parables in the Bible. One of my favorite Scriptures is the one where the woman can not resist and reaches out to touch Jesus' robe. There is something about this verse that makes me feel like crying because I so long to be like that woman and touch His robe too. Anyway, it seems to me that the filler used in this movie maybe wasn't the best that could have been chosen.

You can and will believe whatever you want. But I did not voice my concerns or ask questions in order to tear down the movie or keep anyone from seeing it. They were honest questions I would have appreciated answers to. For if my concerns are wrong, and I should truly give credence to this movie, I want to know for I will go see it. I want more than anything in this world to find and stay on the narrow path. I struggle daily, and sometimes it seems so hard to stay on that path, yet I keep picking myself up and trying my best to do the right thing - trying to use proper discernment regarding all aspects of my life. But if this movie should indeed be considered a great evangelistic tool for God, well, I'm confused! First, I don't understand how He would use a "messenger", one who believes in a Gospel other than that which is given in the Bible, and one who frequently (and with regularity) says and does things that go against Scripture, as a means to spread The Good News. I don't understand how this "message" could be flawed in ANY way and still be from God. And I don't understand how we can possibly ever know which "fillers" are okay, and what "flaws" are acceptable if we have to rely on personal judgment. For if the end justifies the means, than the "means" are totally irrelevant providing they produce the right result. (So you can sin provided it produces something good in the end. Does the sin then become a good thing, a thing God can approve of?) ??? I don't understand.

So...... one last time.... I'm not trying to be ornery, nor am I tearing this movie down. I feel like I'm voicing legitimate concerns and asking valid questions. And if I am wrong, I am asking for explanations so that I might better understand what you seem to already understand, because the possibility that I am that far off with my understanding is quite upsetting to me. You see, I have no "formal learning" regarding Scripture. My beliefs and understanding come from prayer and reading the Bible for myself. I rarely even have someone to ask (in person) any questions I might have. And since I first heard about this movie, it has bothered me for all the reasons I stated above. But because it has received such world-wide adulation, I have allowed that maybe I am missing the point - perhaps I have the wrong idea, have somehow misunderstood. So I came out of the safety of the "shadows" to ask for explanations - answers I can understand and that can be backed up with Scripture. I've asked for teaching and guidance in an area you claim I am being "silly" about. Yet your best response to me is to say that my concerns are "stupid". And you accuse me of trying to prevent something good from God, telling me I WILL have to answer for it. You end with "cute" little figures -- one that seems to signify you are "ready to fight", and another figure that is red with anger and seems to be "cursing". How am I supposed to take this? Is that how Christians are supposed to "help" and speak to one another? Is this what you learned from the movie?

I will keep searching the Scriptures for answers and understanding, but I feel as if I do not belong here and perhaps I should just quietly leave and find some other place for help.

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Gramajo320
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The Passsion Of The Christ remains a very powerful movie and anyone who chooses to tear it down should view the movie first! It most assuredly has helped win many souls to Christ!

In Christ's love,
Gramajp320

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Study
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nobleweb just my view point.

quote:
This prompted the question from me of how did you know when to pay attention to someone if not 100% of their prophecies were true. If they are allowed to be wrong sometimes, how could you ever identify a false prophet?
If a prophet have given a time when something is suppose to happen and by that time nothing has happen. I would say he is a false prophet.

If there is no time line given you would not no weather he is false prophet or not, because you and the prophet both may be died before what was prophesized.

The book of Revelation is a prophecy and has not been fulfilled yet, given by John through the Holy Spirit.

quote:
Is it okay to give credence to a false prophet when what he's saying is the truth?
I will answer this question with a question. How can you give credence to something that is false? (false is false) Did God give credence to Satan because he told part of the truth? No he warns us constantly of his deception.

quote:
Can a prophet be "true" one time and "false" the next - and still be considered a messenger of God?
God will not send a messenger to you to give false messages. I have never read anything in the Bible of God sending a false messenger.

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Favor Minded
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OK - I have to add....

There is NOTHING that is NOT scripturally sound...NOTHING....

The poetic license is simply that there is filler...

For example - Brother caretakers excerpt above...

None of the Gospels say ANYTHING about what was going on while the Romans were dragging Jesus off to be adorned with the special crown they made for him.

WHY is it wrong for the movie the depict an upset mother and a caring wife of Pilate who recognized his purity and gave linen to help clean up the mess, while the Romans are busy getting him prepared to go before Pilate again...

HOW DOES THIS CAUSE THE DEVIL TO GET IN? That is pure silliness...

IT doesn't!!!

That is just plain stupid.

Sorry - Please understand that I am in no way calling anyone stupid, but there is NOTHING scripturally unsound about it, at all!!!

The only license is the building of a movie around the events. Case in point the scene above -Oh I suppose they could have spent the entire time allowing us to watch the Crown being placed, watching them hit and beat him over and over again, but you see - Humans are frail - Many would have left just because it was too intense to watch, so the movie maker provides an out -

The scene of Claudia offering linen, depicting the purity that she recognized in Jesus.

WOW, that sure sounds like the Devil to me!

Come on people - WHERE is the scripturally unsoundness?

THERE IS NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The devil IS NOT working through the Passion, except with those people who would tear it down.

Of that you can be sure - There will come a day when God WILL ask you why you tried to prevent something that placed Jesus Christ in the limelight of the secular communities of the world like NOTHING EVER HAS before, except when he was alive in the flesh...


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nobleweb
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quote:
I think anyone believer or non-believer will have a better since of what actually happened and what Jesus really had to go through for US!
I couldn't agree more!! Because as embarrassing as it is to admit, I didn't understand that myself before this movie came out. So in that aspect, I would say I benefited from this movie. But I didn't have to see it to get that important understanding.

After reading the "reviews" posted here - both good and bad - the thing that kept catching my attention was something that both sides agreed on. From what I gather, the movie is not 100% scripturally sound. I understand that the discrepancies are considered minor and unimportant. But it appears that everyone agrees that, at the very least, "poetic licence" was taken even if only in small degrees.

It finally dawned on me why that bothered me -- because it's in small degrees that the devil works. He's not so bold or stupid as to whisper in your ear that it's okay to set your neighbor's house on fire because he purposely ran over your dog. Instead, he slyly whispers that it's okay to lie in order to spare someone's feelings. Much of the time, the devil seems to make sense - and in a perverted way, what he whispers appears to be the right and kindest thing to do. The devil is cunning and smart, and he knows he has to be very VERY subtle in order to work his way into a believer's heart. So in a movie as important as the crucifixion of Christ, he wouldn't be trying to get gross misrepresentations into the script. He wouldn't use blatant lies, or greatly change the Scriptures, or do anything else that would automatically turn the Christian population away. Instead, he would cleverly use 98% - 99% of the truth. And in the other 1% - 2%, he could plant his own "seeds". (The path is narrow -- how many degrees can you veer before you have wandered off the path?)

I am not as learned in the Bible as many of you, and it's possible that I have this entirely wrong. But my belief is that any message that was truly from God would be totally without flaw. It seems to me that if He were to use flawed information, regardless of how small or insignificant the flaw seemed, it would be monumentally difficult, if not impossible, to understand the truth of right and wrong.

Having said all that..... Would God take "poetic license" with The Good News in order to reach more people with the truth? Would He ever use the Gospels, for any reason, in a fashion that was not 100% infallible? In other words, is it okay to give small amounts of misinformation if it produces an outcome that is good? (If a "bad deed" produces good results, does the bad deed become a good deed?)

Please know that I am not being sarcastic in any way. I just don't understand this at all. It makes me think of a conversation I had with someone about a prophecy. I don't remember many particulars, but it came out that some of the prophecies this particular person had made did not come true. This prompted the question from me of how did you know when to pay attention to someone if not 100% of their prophecies were true. If they are allowed to be wrong sometimes, how could you ever identify a false prophet? Is it okay to give credence to a false prophet when what he's saying is the truth? Can a prophet be "true" one time and "false" the next - and still be considered a messenger of God? The person didn't have any answers for me, and I don't understand that at all.

Anyway...... that is how I feel about this movie. If the Gospel doesn't have to be presented as 100% accurate, how could we ever possibly discern what was from God and what was from the devil?

Once again, please let me say that I'm not trying to keep a debate of the movie going. I'm not trying to say anything about Mel Gibson, or Catholicism, and I'm making no judgments of any kind whatsoever. Instead, I'd really appreciate answers to my above questions because from what I've read here, the stuff everyone agrees on, I honest-to-goodness don't understand how this movie could be considered "good".

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KnowHim
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I have seen The Passion of the Christ and I think it is a very, very good movie.

I think anyone believer or non-believer will have a better since of what actually happened and what Jesus really had to go through for US!

I am sure Satan would not want anyone to see this move!

Plus the Passion recut is less violent for those who can not take the first version. I think the crusifixion was as bad or worse then in the first version.

 -

Click here to go to The Passion Recut website

had to get my two cents in.

 -

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Gramajo320
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Favorminded,

Amen! I totally agree with you and God bless you always!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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GJ:
The Passion Of The Christ script does NOT rely on a nun's vision whatsoever and furthermore this movie is not filtered through the roman catholic theology at all. You really should see the movie before tearing it down!


Drew

http://www.christianitytoday.com/movies/commentaries/passion-passionofmel.html

The vision thing

Mel Gibson is in many ways a pre-Vatican II Roman Catholic. He prefers the Tridentine Latin Mass and calls Mary co-redemptrix. Early in the filming of The Passion, he gave a long interview to Raymond Arroyo on the conservative Catholic network EWTN. In that interview, Gibson told how actor Jim Caviezel, the film's Jesus, insisted on beginning each day of filming with the celebration of the Mass on the set. He also recounted a series of divine coincidences that led him to read the works of Anne Catherine Emmerich, a late-18th, early-19th-century Westphalian nun who had visions of the events of the Passion. Many of the details needed to fill out the Gospel accounts he drew from her book, Dolorous Passion of Our Lord.

Here is one such detail from Emmerich:

"[A]fter the flagellation, I saw Claudia Procles, the wife of Pilate, send some large pieces of linen to the Mother of God. I know not whether she thought that Jesus would be set free, and that his Mother would then require linen to dress his wounds, or whether this compassionate lady was aware of the use which would be made of her present. … I soon after saw Mary and Magdalen approach the pillar where Jesus had been scourged; … they knelt down on the ground near the pillar, and wiped up the sacred blood with the linen which Claudia Procles had sent."

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Favor Minded
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Just a quick question - After all, we is all gettin' along so good in the Pre Tribbers section, let's not get too outta hand over this 'n, eh?

Yes, Mel does not subscribe to Vatican II

Yes, he is a traditionalist Catholic -

We should stop fightin' over this one me thinks...

I would ask though, specifically, how, this movie, is not biblical?

Smile y'all!!

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Gramajo320
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The Passion Of The Christ script does NOT rely on a nun's vision whatsoever and furthermore this movie is not filtered through the roman catholic theology at all. You really should see the movie before tearing it down!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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GJ
Yes Mel Gibson most assuredly is a christian! You obviously do not know the difference between charismatic catholics and roman catholics for all you do is lump them all together which you should not do.

Drew
Mel Gibson is a pre-Vatican II Roman Catholic.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/tc/2004/002/1.30.html

Though he has earned the support of evangelicals in the promotion of his movie, Gibson adheres to a traditionalist, pre-Vatican II Catholicism that firmly distances his theology from that of Protestants—and even mainstream Catholics.

GJ
It's very obvious you've never seen the movie for if you had you would know that your words are so wrong!

Drew
Its very obvious that you've never seen the movie for what it is, then you would know that I speak the truth and be able to ascertain the overwhelming Roman Catholic influences, and a script which relys heavily on the nun's visions.

GJ
It's obvious that you will never know the truth and as for the title of the movie The Passion Of The Christ it is titled exactly as it should be and it's all about Jesus Christ and his crucifixion.

Drew
It is obvious that you will never accept the truth that the movie is a false depiction based on the visions of Catherine Emmerich, and is a cinematic presentation of the Dolorus Passion of the Christ, filtered through Roman Catholic theology.

GJ
Jesus Christ and His crucifixion is very bibical!

Drew
I agree, but the movie is not.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Gramajo320
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Caretaker,

Yes Mel Gibson most assuredly is a christian! You obviously do not know the difference between charismatic catholics and roman catholics for all you do is lump them all together which you should not do. It's very obvious you've never seen the movie for if you had you would know that your words are so wrong! It's obvious that you will never know the truth and as for the title of the movie The Passion Of The Christ it is titled exactly as it should be and it's all about Jesus Christ and his crucifixion. Jesus Christ and His crucifixion is very bibical!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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Caretaker
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GrammaJo
To those who oppose The Passion Of The Christ

GJ
Mel Gibson is most assuredly a christian.

Drew
Mel Gibson is most assuredly a Roman Catholic. Receiving his justification through the sacraments of the Church. A Christian receives full and complete justification through Jesus alone by faith alone.


GJ
The Passion Of The Christ is NOT a roman catholic movie and to even say that is ludicrous!

Drew
The movie was taken primarily from the Dolorus Passion of the Christ, which were the written visions of a Roman Catholic nun, Catherine Emmerich. In truth it should be named the Dolorus Passion of the Christ. It would behoove all of those who so adamently support this movie and continually skewer those who stand against it, to read the writings of Emmerich which are not Biblical and overwhelmingly filled with Roman Catholic concepts.


GJ
It is a movie about Jesus Christ and His crucifixion and perhaps if you ever see it you would know that it has much bibical truth in it.

Drew
It is a movie of the nun's VISIONS of the events of the the crucifiction.

A little Living Water mixed with SEWAGE is not palatable.

GJ
Tearing down is not christian.


Drew
Judging and rejecting that which is false is our admonition from the WORD.

GJ
Try winning souls to Christ for that is what's the most important!

Drew
It is most important to seek to reach the lost for our Lord Jesus Christ, and to offer them the Living Water, not that which has been polluted with raw sewage.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Gramajo320
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To those who oppose The Passion Of The Christ

Mel Gibson is most assuredly a christian. The Passion Of The Christ is NOT a roman catholic movie and to even say that is ludicrous! It is a movie about Jesus Christ and His crucifixion and perhaps if you ever see it you would know that it has much bibical truth in it. Tearing down is not christian. Try winning souls to Christ for that is what's the most important!

In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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nobleweb
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Dear Caretaker & volodymyrdolgoruki, Thank you for your kind words. Until I read these posts, I thought I must be the only person in the world who felt this way. It is so nice to know I'm not alone! [Big Grin]

To Gramajo320 - I never said a word about what is in Mel Gibson's heart, for you are correct - I do not know what is in his heart. But it is equally true that you do not know either. Yet you defend the movie and say that I/We will some day be proven wrong and have to answer for it. It kind of feels as if you are judging me when you say such things!

I am not a Bible scholar, and I feel so unqualified to "debate" with so many learned people. Yet I know the Bible tells us that we will know a person by their fruits. So which "fruits" do we know Mr. Gibson by? The ton of movies where he uses God's name in vain and "condones" sinful things? Or by the one movie where he shares his personal beliefs about God? And are we to believe that it's okay to do/say these things as long as it's for our jobs?

And, I am not tearing the movie down for I have not seen it. But truthfully, it sounds to me like the stuff nightmares are made of!

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Gramajo320
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I recommend you see The Passion Of The Christ before passing judgement on it! The movie has much more bibical truth!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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Caretaker
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If anyone desires to read the primary source for the movie here it is:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.jesus-passion.com/DOLOROUS_PASSION_OF_OUR_LORD_JESUS_CHRIST.htm

http://www.jesus-passion.com/THE_PASSION2.htm#CHAPTER%20XXIII

When Jesus fell down at the foot of the pillar, after the flagellation, I saw Claudia Procles, the wife of Pilate, send some large pieces of linen to the Mother of God. I know not whether she thought that Jesus would be set free, and that his Mother would then require linen to dress his wounds, or whether this compassionate lady was aware of the use which would be made of her present. At the termination of the scourging, Mary came to herself for a time, and saw her Divine Son all torn and mangled, being led away by the archers after the scourging: he wiped his eyes, which were filled with blood, that he might look at his Mother, and she stretched out her hands towards him, and continued to look at the bloody traces of his footsteps. I soon after saw Mary and Magdalen approach the pillar where Jesus had been scourged; the mob were at a distance, and they were partly concealed by the other holy women, and by a few kind-hearted persons who had joined them; they knelt down on the ground near the pillar, and wiped up the sacred blood with the linen which Claudia Procles had sent. John was not at that time with the holy women, who were about twenty in number. The sons of Simeon and of Obed, and Veronica, as also the two nephews of Joseph of Arimathea—Aram and Themni—were in the Temple, and appeared to be overwhelmed with grief. It was not more than nine o’clock A.M. when the scourging terminated.


http://www.jesus-passion.com/THE_PASSION.htm#CHAPTER%20XII

Jesus, in his anguish of spirit, raised his voice, and gave utterance to several cries of pain. The three Apostles awoke, listened, and were desirous of approaching him, but Peter detained James and John, saying: ‘Stay you here; I will join him.’ Then I saw Peter hastily run forward and enter the grotto. ‘Master,’ he exclaimed, ‘what has befallen thee?’ But at the sight of Jesus, thus bathed in his own blood, and sinking to the ground beneath the weight of mortal fear and anguish, he drew back, and paused for a moment, overcome with terror. Jesus made him no answer, and appeared unconscious of his presence. Peter returned to the other two, and told them that the Lord had not answered him except by groans and sighs. They became more and more sorrowful after this, covered their heads, and sat down to weep and pray.

I then returned to my Heavenly Spouse in his most bitter agony. The frightful visions of the future ingratitude of the men whose debt to Divine Justice he was taking upon himself, continued to become more and more vivid and tremendous. Several times I heard him exclaim: ‘0 my Father, can I possibly suffer for so ungrateful a race? 0 my Father, if this chalice may not pass from me, but I must drink it, thy will be done!’

Jesus walked up to the soldiers and said in a firm and clear voice, ‘ Whom seek ye?’ The leaders answered, ‘ Jesus of Nazareth.’ Jesus said to them, ‘1 am he.’ Scarcely had he pronounced these words than they all fell to the ground, as if struck with apoplexy. Judas, who stood by them, was much alarmed, and as he appeared desirous of approaching, Jesus held out his hand and said: ‘Friend, whereto art thou come?’ Judas stammered forth something about business which had brought him. Jesus answered in few words, the sense of which was: 'It were better for thee that thou hadst never been born;’ however, I cannot remember the words exactly. In the meantime, the soldiers had risen, and again approached Jesus, but they waited for the sign of the kiss, with which Judas had promised to salute his Master that they might recognise him. Peter and the other disciples surrounded Judas, and reviled him in unmeasured terms, calling him thief and traitor; he tried to mollify their wrath by all kinds of lies, but his efforts were vain, for the soldiers came up and offered to defend him, which proceeding manifested the truth at once.

They tied his hands as tightly as possible with hard new cords, fastening the right-hand wrist under the left elbow, and the left-hand wrist under the right elbow. They encircled his waist with a species of belt studded with iron points, and bound his hands to it with osier bands, while on his neck they put a collar covered with iron points, and to this collar were appended two leathern straps, which were crossed over his chest like a stole and fastened to the belt. They then fastened four ropes to different parts of the belt, and by means of these ropes dragged our Blessed Lord from side to side in the most cruel manner. The ropes were new; I think they were purchased when the Pharisees first determined to arrest Jesus.

The bridge over which the soldiers led Jesus was long, being thrown over not only the torrent, which was very large in this part, but likewise over the valley, which extends a considerable distance to the right and to the left, and is much lower than the bed of the river. I saw our Lord fall twice before he reached the bridge, and these falls were caused entirely by the barbarous manner in which the soldiers dragged him; but when they were half over the bridge they gave full vent to their brutal inclinations, and struck Jesus with such violence that they threw him off the bridge into the water, and scornfully recommended him to quench his thirst there. If God had not preserved him, he must have been killed by this fall; he fell first on his knee, and then on his face, but saved himself a little by stretching. out his hands, which, although so tightly bound before, were loosened, I know not whether by miracle, or whether the soldiers had cut the cords before they threw him into the water. The marks of his feet, his elbows, and his fingers were miraculously impressed on the rock on which he fell, and these impressions were afterwards shown for the veneration of Christians. These stones were less hard than the unbelieving hearts of the wicked men who surrounded Jesus, and bore witness at this terrible moment to the Divine Power which had touched them.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Gramajo320
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To those of you who continue to tear down the movie The Passion Of The Christ one day you will know that you have been and are wrong in doing so for you know not the true facts!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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volodymyrdolgoruki
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Thank You and God Bless you Drew.

Father God, open the eyes of the blind to see the Truth. Your Truth, rather than man's concept of it.

--------------------
Don't wish for a better day
Be glad and use the one you're in
Fear God and do exactly what He says
That's what matters
All else fades like the flowers

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Caretaker
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To Nobleweb, Bloodbought, volodymyrdolgoruki, please know that opposition to the "Passion" movie is not popular, and those of us who find the cinematic presentation of Catherine Emmerich's the "Dolorus Passion of the Christ", repugnant, are going to be chastised. The demonic vision of the deluded nun, presented in all its gory Roman Catholic detail literally has turned my stomuch and repulsed me. It is the same as when I see the materials from a JW, or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, genuflecting before the statues of Mary, or any other cultic presentation.

You will be chastised with "Judge not!!", "it has brought millions to Christ", "only God can judge!!!", "how can the presentation of the Gospel be wrong", etc, etc, etc,.

For me to view this work, is like taking the true Living Waters and mixing it with pure SEWAGE. I am repulsed and my stomuch churns when I view such preversion of the Gospel of my precious Lord Jesus Christ. This movie has literally made me sick to my stomuch.

Please know Nobleweb, Bloodbought, volodymyrdolgoruki, that there are some here that support your position in regards to the "Passion" movie.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Gramajo320
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Volodymyrdolgoruki,

You totally miss the point and lack understanding of what I posted. In addition to that I refuse to debate with you for it's so apparent that is all in this world that you prefer to do much of the time in threads.


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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volodymyrdolgoruki
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In Leathal weapon Danny Glover's character said
quote:
God hates me
Mel Gibson's character said
quote:
Hate Him back, it works for me
You say this is OK???

--------------------
Don't wish for a better day
Be glad and use the one you're in
Fear God and do exactly what He says
That's what matters
All else fades like the flowers

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volodymyrdolgoruki
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So it's ok to take the Lord's name in vain, as long as your acting in a movie???

I DON"T THINK SO

It's ok to promote unmarried sex, and ACT IT OUT in a movie???

Maybe I should become an porn actor, then I can do anything I like as long as it's in front of a camera.

--------------------
Don't wish for a better day
Be glad and use the one you're in
Fear God and do exactly what He says
That's what matters
All else fades like the flowers

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Gramajo320
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Volodymyrdolgoruki,

Surely you know there's a world of difference between acting in a movie as opposed to who a person truly is and what he believes in his heart!

I stand by what I posted!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

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volodymyrdolgoruki
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Gramajo320 wrote
quote:
You most assuredly do not have any personal knowledge of Mel Gibson whatsoever so therefore you should not be judging him nor tearing him down!
Did you even read what nobleweb wrote???

quote:
Mel Gibson is a man who consistently takes God's name in vain in his movies. He also "condones" sex outside marriage and other sinful things in his movies.
What he wrote is INDISPUTABLE.
IT IS FACT

If you don't believe it go rent some of his videos.

They are rated R for a reason

--------------------
Don't wish for a better day
Be glad and use the one you're in
Fear God and do exactly what He says
That's what matters
All else fades like the flowers

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