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Author
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Topic: If You're Born Again, Do You Still Sin?
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Brother Paul
Advanced Member
Member # 7959
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posted
I know this is redundant but I thought it can be reiterated here.
Sin is transgressing the Law of God (1 John 3:4), Janes tells us truly that to break as much as one jot or tittle (the tiniest puncuation mark) is to break the whole Law. Therefore all are condemned because all have sinned. Now we (the redeemed) have died (the payment due for sin) IN HIM (Romans 6) and have been raised to newness of life. We no longer willfully or purposely transgress the Law of God which is written in our hearts in the new creature but old habits take time (as regarding the flesh of the old man we are to reckon as dead and kill daily), Therefore...
Galatians 2:16-21, “…know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified. If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker. For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" Thus, the requirement of no sin is for now fulfilled only "in Him."
Now to explore this further in the words of Jesus let us look at Matthew 19. In Matthew 19 we hear the story (not a parable) of a rich young ruler who sought understanding of how one obtains eternal life. The scriptures tell us, “Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life? According to this story, because the young man was still under the Law, Jesus tells him to obey the commandments (which we all should also strive to do if we love God). We soon are told that this young man had done so successfully since his youth (at least he believed he had obeyed all the commandments which not doing is what is called sin)…but yet he is still thinking that there is something more that he must do in order to get into heaven (the error of man…ultimate salvation comes by works that we must now do). So Jesus gives him a task. He knows this will be impossible to this young man. The disciples, knowing this young man obeyed all the commandments, are confused by this and we read, “When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, Who then can be saved? Jesus looked at them and said, With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Why?
The answer comes in Titus 3:4-7 where we read, “But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.” Thus it is He who did it and who is faithful to also do it...(when you were saved He knew all you would do as you mature ...every little broken jot or tittle).
Thus, “Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.” Those who pisteuo, that is actively trust in HIM, rely on HIM, and cleave to HIM...(Galatians 3:21, 22)
No one ever has kept the whole law and neither can they (all 613 commendments are THE LAW), and thus all are under condemnation unless they take advantage of the Lord's offer of redemption…only by this redemption can we be bought back...the penalty due for their sin (all of them up until His return) have been paid. Romans 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight
Where then is the error for “good people” that will not be saved? Why won’t they be saved? Romans 9:32 tells us, “Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works and so, They stumbled over the "stumbling stone."
They repented unto good works, but failed to have wages due paid. Remember, “All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." But no one can, only by Christ in us, the hope or expectation of glory. And who has not sinned at least once since they got saved? Peter? Paul? Only Christ our Savior our Redeemer who Himself is the propitiation for all of our sins (past, present, and future)….
So Romans 6:23 reminds us that “The payment due for sin is death (ultimately, that is the second death in gehenna) but the gift of God is eternal life in Messiah Y’shua" (Y’shua means “the LORDs salvation”). And once given it will never be revoked because it is a gift (Romans 11:29). Now then how does one attain this blessed position where the Lord Himself commutes our just sentence? By being born of His Spirit we become a new spirit man (John 3:3-8), the old soulish man being reckoned as dead (Romans 6), so that now we have two natures one still lingering though we reckon it as dead, which still pulls us toward our flesh (of the first Adam), and another pulling us toward higher things of the Spirit (of the second Adam who is Christ). When the Lord draws us and we change our mind from unbelief to belief (trusting in, relying on, and cleaving to Him knowing without His sacrifice we face hell and incomprehensibly being thankful for this amazing grace) and are immersed by the Spirit into the Lord Jesus Christ, then the Spirit comes and takes up residence within us. By this gift of the Holy Spirit (the promise of the Father – Luke 44) we are sealed until the day of redemption of our bodies (Acts 3:38). We ARE seated with Him (Ephesians 1) and we are already translated from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of His Son (Colossians 1, 2).
So Jesus is saying it IS better to enter heaven maimed than to enter hell, but salvation is still by grace through faith not by obeying the commandments. If it were then even unbelievers who hate God could simply obey and get in…this would make no sense at all.
Now that we are saved should we obey God? Yes, by all means and with all our hearts, minds, and strength, obey all that the Lord has commanded us through Christ. It is our duty to obey God now that we are able to learn to do this, but is our salvation merited by doing this? No!
Becoming a son or daughter is the gift of God provided to us by grace through His own Blood (Galatians). Also the Lord says 'When you have done all that is commanded you, say: "We are useless servants: we have only done what was our duty"' (Luke 17:10). You see doing your duty is commendable, but being what God wants us to be because His Spirit makes us into such a person, then our heart is right with God and right before Him because this demonstrates His law is written within. And because of this wonderful undeserved Grace, if I fall (not on purpose or habitually) do I then lose my salvation? No! The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable…He who promised will also do it…of them that are given Him He shall lose none…He will NEVER leave you or forsake you…now only faithe…do not just believe IN God but rather believe God. The peace of the Lord be with you. We must remain faithful to Him who is faithful. Obey God and let the Spirit of God work through you to this lost and dying world...
When we fail to continue in NOT SINNING are we condemned? No! Before we were saved we continued in sin. Sin was our "norm". We lived to sin and refused to obey God (in fact He was never in the equation). Now we no longer "continue in sin" but continue in obedience and sometimes fall because of our judged and condemned flesh-self which still has some power over us (Romans 7). It will not be entirely eliminated until we are raised to eternally be with Him. Until then faithe...(pisteuo the verb form of Faith which is pistis)...faithe until the end...endure through faith...believe Him who promised for He will also do it...no one or anything can plauch us out of His hand and He will never leave us or forsake us, we are sealed until the day of redemption and the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Paul
Posts: 235 | From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Dec 2009
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rstrats
Advanced Member
Member # 7706
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posted
1 John 3:9 - "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."
1 John 5:1 - Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God...5:18 - We know that whoever is born of God does not sin..."
Posts: 97 | Registered: Apr 2009
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John Hale
unregistered
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posted
Self effort? ![[cool_shades]](graemlins/cool_shades.gif)
Yes, I know the Holy Spirit indwells all believers and is in fact whom and where we get the unction to believe in the first place (to paraphrase several passages of scripture including Ephesians 2:8-10)...
But I also know that while we cannot save ourselves nor please the Lord with only our own efforts it is incumbent upon the believer to make an effort once saved. Among the most basic of those efforts is to learn how to discern and distinguish the voice of the Holy Spirit from the rest of the voices (self will, peer pressure, Church tradition when it conflicts with scripture, the herd mentality of people, and the voices of those who work for the enemy both human and fallen angel {who cannot possess believers already occupied by the Spirit of God but who can still whisper in our ears feigning to be angels of light} etc.).
For he will lead us to all truth (John 16:13), but we are not good judges of... well, much of anything, and must prove all things (1 Thessalonians 5:21) and test the spirits (1 John 4:1) and the way to do that is with the scriptures (Acts 17:11, 2 Timothy 2:15, 2 Timothy 3:16-17).
And thank you for the welcome! ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif)
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
Hello John,
Welcome to the Christian BBS.
Do you know that we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit when we give our lives to Jesus Christ as our Lord and our Savior?
The reason I ask is because you said:
quote:
Having ears to hear and eyes to see is a way of saying getting into the right frame of mind to understand scripture / God's truth. Perspective, for one thing. The Lord's sacrifice was not to enable us to have a license to sin but the ability not to sin.
To me, that statement sounds like it's all self-effort without the Holy Spirit in our lives.
Hope to hear from you soon. Again, welcome. Glad you are here with us.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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John Hale
unregistered
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posted
Post #1 for me here.
God gave Torah of Moses (the Law) to establish the ground rules, to define sin, to specify requirements of righteousness and / or redemption. And to show above all that we fallen natured human beings cannot meet the criteria.
God gave the Torah of Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21) to save mankind, make up the differences in our shortcomings with the imputed righteousness of Christ... in order that we may function in this life to work towards the salvation of others (the spread of the Gospel via the calling and ministry of each and every believer).
Do we sin after we are born again? Yes. But only as the result of living by the flesh and not by the spirit. That or we have starved our spirit of the word of God, parched it by not praying or doing good deeds in the name of the Lord... or not exercised it into shape by denying the flesh and the temptations of this life.
Are these sins placing our salvation in jeopardy? Nope. 1 Corinthians 5:5 indicates what God will resort to so that will not happen. Do these sins have consequences? You bet... in this life. You steal and get caught you have to repay or go to jail. Etc.
Having ears to hear and eyes to see is a way of saying getting into the right frame of mind to understand scripture / God's truth. Perspective, for one thing. The Lord's sacrifice was not to enable us to have a license to sin but the ability not to sin.
By the standard of the Law of Moses all sin. And even the righteousness of mankind before the cross was only filthy rags to God (Isaiah 64:6).
Romans 7 is a good read about the born again inner conflict.
God bless.
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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
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posted
If I were to say I never sin, then I would be committing the sin of lying.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
If You're Born Again, Do You Still Sin?
Do you believe that when a person is saved that he lives free from sin here in this present world?
Thomas
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Hi Thomas,
In answer to your question, no I do not believe that once a person is saved he lives a life on earth without sin. The Bible doesn't teach any such doctrine and in fact it teaches the very opposite. One of the primary passages dealing with the believer's (that is, those who are saved) attitude and position on sin is 1 John. This epistle was written to first century Christians and addresses the concepts of sin, believers and nonbelievers. Verses 6 and 7 state "If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not know the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin." The above passage shows that those who are believers will not be in habitual sin - with the idea of walking in the darkness having a connotation of intentional, repetitive disobedience.
However, John follows these verses with "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Here, the apostle says that Christians who claim to be sin free are deceiving themselves and he calls into question their very salvation for making such a claim! You see, the idea of being born again means that we should be transformed day by day into the image of Christ. Although we should strive for perfection (Matt. 5:48), it doesn't mean that we'll be perfect. When we're born again we receive a new, godly nature (Eph. 4:24), but our old nature also still exists. Paul talks about this in Romans chapter 7 when he says "For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not... For I joyfully concur with God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members." (vss. 18,21) Here we can see how even Paul struggled with sins in his own life, but he knew he was saved and he would be victorious one day.
This is why Paul makes such big deal about God's grace in the book of Romans. He writes "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him." (Rom. 5:8-9) He also says "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand." (vss. 1-2) Paul knows that he cannot stop sinning, but he rejoices in the fact that God will forgive him of his sins through grace. Grace means that we can be forgiven.
So, since Christians are saved, does that mean that they can sin whenever they want? No, it doesn't. Paul makes it clear that Christians don't have a free ride either. Right after he wrote the verses mentioned above, he said "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" John also shows that sin shouldn't be taken lightly, but needs to be confessed by the Christian "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1John 1:9) As I said at the beginning of this letter, Christians should strive for perfection, even though they know they won't attain it. Jesus sums this up best when He said "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." (John 14:15)
I hope this has helped you better understand the role of grace and sin in the life of the believer. Please let me know if you would like anything clarified or if you have further questions. I pray that you will continue to seek after God and learn of him.
http://comereason.org/theo_issues/theo015.asp
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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