Christian Message Board And Forums


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Christian Message Board And Forums   » Bible Studies   » End Time Events In The News   » a little humor on the rapture issue (Page 2)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: a little humor on the rapture issue
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728

Icon 1 posted      Profile for WhiteEagle     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Trenton D. Adams:
And you know, I'm still kind of curious why people get so angry over this topic. It's really quite silly if you ask me.

[BooHoo]

I don't understand it either. I originally decided to find a Christian message board to see if other Christians were interested enough to have begun searching the scriptures about prophecy. I'm with you, in that I was taught Pre-Trib. Trouble is, when researching the Bible to find all those mysterious verses that supposedly support pre-trib, I couldn't find any.

No one here been able to offer valid Biblical support of that view either.

If someone can give Biblical support then I'm waiting.

Texas grandma made me almost spit out my ice tea when I read she wanted me to eat my words. [Wink] it was so funny!

The "imminent" return of Christ is not a doctrine
that supercedes the other teachings of the Bible.
Mostly when verse say "Come quickly Lord Jesus", it's a prayer from a saint, not a prophetic statement.

Jesus wants us to see the signs, and be ready, so WE won't be caught unawares, as the unbelieving will be.

God bless Trenton.

Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847

Icon 1 posted      Profile for TEXASGRANDMA     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Texas grandma, I DO NOT ATTEND a Seven Day Adventist Church! I have no idea what they teach except, for what you wrote. So I agree with Trenton, that I have no clue as to why you brought SDA up.

Because so much as been said about the SDA not believing in the rapture.

You still have not answered my honest questions, nor has any Pre-trib person come to your aid in answering my concerns about Pre-trib.

1.What will you do if the anitchrist is revealed and you're still planted on earth?
Keeping serving God
2.Will you deny it's really the antichrist because you're still on earth?
of course not
3. Perhaps pre-tribbers could accept the mark of the beast because they believe it CAN"T be the Mark since they are still on earth.


A Christian cannot take the mark of the beast. Jesus said Himself that a devil can't cast out a devil. A Christian already has the mark of Jesus on his or her heart.
4. Will finding yourself in the midst of the Great Tribulation shake your faith?
no, i withstood the greatest test of my faith when my sister killed herself. God got me through that, He can get me through anything.

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gramajo320
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Texas Grandma,

Amen and your posting is so very true! God bless you always!


In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728

Icon 1 posted      Profile for WhiteEagle     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:

Because so much as been said about the SDA not believing in the rapture.



I believe in the Rapture. So how is that like SDA?


[QUOTE}A Christian cannot take the mark of the beast. Jesus said Himself that a devil can't cast out a devil. A Christian already has the mark of Jesus on his or her heart.
4. Will finding yourself in the midst of the Great Tribulation shake your faith?
no, i withstood the greatest test of my faith when my sister killed herself. God got me through that, He can get me through anything.
[/QUOTE]

That's a good answer! Thank You. I hope a Christian doesn't take the Mark, but I think it's possible for a Christian to take the physical mark in error or by mistake. You also can be correct, as we are sealed when we accept Christ and nothing can seperate us from the Love of Christ.

I'm sorry that you had to face grief of losing your sister, and can understand that it may be the
worst thing for you to face and get through.

Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847

Icon 1 posted      Profile for TEXASGRANDMA     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Gramajo320 [Kiss]


You are a source a comfort to many of us.
thanks
betty
[youpi] [dance]

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
whitesands777
Advanced Member
Member # 3424

Icon 1 posted      Profile for whitesands777     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've heard many of the pre trib view say that "The Church isn't going through the tribulation because I really don't think Jesus wants a bloody beat up bride."

That's the most illogical logic used to support the pre trib view...I mean, how in the world would that be sound reasoning for proof of the pre trib rapture?

Jesus loves the Christians that have died before His return and the slain martyred bodies of Peter, Paul, and the rest of the 11 apostles that were killed for their testimony of Him...


The truth is that Jesus isn't going to get a bloody bride not because he came before the tribulation to rapture the church , but because of His awesome power to create life, to heal, and to raise the dead and because He is going to give us new incorruptable bodies upon His return.

Posts: 501 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bat Elohim
Advanced Member
Member # 3739

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Bat Elohim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ok... here's my 2 cents worth....

i don't really believe in the pre-trib rapture... but, i do hope that it is true! how could i not hope for that!!

I would like to answer WhiteEagle's questions...
quote:
1.What will you do if the anitchrist is revealed and you're still planted on earth?
I will rejoice that Yahweh has found me fit and able enough to allow me to be a Tribulation Saint and possibly a Martyr for Him. I will rejoice that He has revealed the enemy so that I will know who he is and can guard myself and my son and warn my family.


quote:
2.Will you deny it's really the antichrist because you're still on earth?
no. Yah's ways are not man's ways... we will have to admit we were wrong, allow Yah to comfort us and move on.

quote:
3. Perhaps pre-tribbers could accept the mark of the beast because they believe it CAN"T be the Mark since they are still on earth.
i'm sure that some will probably receive a physical mark, but like Mrs. Betty said... Yah'shua already has His mark on our hearts and minds. I think that if the physical mark requires worshiping a false god like revelations seems to say, then true Christians will realize the truth and not take the mark.

quote:
4. Will finding yourself in the midst of the Great Tribulation shake your faith?
i'm sure that it will shake everyone's faith!!! such horrors that are to come! but he who holds fast to the end will be saved!
just because your faith is shaken, doesn't mean that it is lost or broken. Sometimes we need to be shaken to wake us up.

it reminds me of the time when i was a child and my cat was exploring a paper bag. when it had gone inside i snatched the bag up and shook the mess out of that bag with the cat inside. that cat got out alive. he still knew he was a cat afterwards and he knew i was the enemy who had shaken him. I knew he was a cat too... i had the marks to prove it that he left on me in his eagerness to get away!! that cat was more cautious around me from then on. he never went into a paper bag again either.

--------------------
Numbers 6:24 May ADONAI bless you and keep you. 25 May ADONAI make his face shine on you and show you his favor. 26 May ADONAI lift up his face toward you and give you peace.

Posts: 704 | From: Louisiana | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
redkermit
Advanced Member
Member # 4059

Icon 1 posted      Profile for redkermit     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
I hope a Christian doesn't take the Mark, but I think it's possible for a Christian to take the physical mark in error or by mistake.

I totally disagree with this statement. Can you elaborate on why you feel this way?

--------------------
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org

Posts: 604 | From: Michigan | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
HisGrace
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Gramajo320 [Kiss]
You are a source a comfort to many of us.
thanks
betty
[youpi] [dance]

Amen! I would like to give some kudos to Gramajo as well. Appreciate your uplifting messages. May God richly bless you. [hug]
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gramajo320
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Texas Grandma and His Grace,

Thank you ever so much for your words of encouragement to me for that is also very helpful to me! I also want to thank Favorminded, Born Again, Ripp, and Kris for their words of encouragement to me in various threads. To each of you your words of encouragement have been a source of comfort to me! God bless you all always!

In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Trenton D. Adams
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by redkermit:
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
I hope a Christian doesn't take the Mark, but I think it's possible for a Christian to take the physical mark in error or by mistake.

I totally disagree with this statement. Can you elaborate on why you feel this way?
Although it wasn't my statement. I believe itt will happen because of stress. Yashua continually says hold fast until the end, and you'll be given a crown of life. That to me means that only the elect will make it. There are many that are saved today, that will not be when the tribulation is over, and even before the tribulation. It's called "the great falling away", which Paul spoke of, and so did Yashua.
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728

Icon 1 posted      Profile for WhiteEagle     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by redkermit:
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
I hope a Christian doesn't take the Mark, but I think it's possible for a Christian to take the physical mark in error or by mistake.

I totally disagree with this statement. Can you elaborate on why you feel this way?
We have warnings from Jesus himself in Matthew 24:24 about false messiahs who perform signs and wonders. The beast will perform signs and wonders. "if possible the very elect could be deceived".

I have faith that true believers will be able to discern the false from the truth. We need to stay close to God at all times.

We are warned many times in scripture to hold fast to what is true and put on the whole armor of God.

If we could not be deceived, then why all the warnings?

Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728

Icon 1 posted      Profile for WhiteEagle     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
To add that they way I understand the Mark of the Beast: People will be mandated to take it to be able to buy or sell. Will the deceit begin as "harmless" as the way to prevent identity theft and protect your own assets?

Then will it progress to be more forceful if people refuse to take a mark on their bodies?

People will be facing losing their homes, their jobs, their livlihoods unless they take this so called harmless mark.

Revelation says those who worship and follow after the Beast or take his mark (which denotes a faith in what the beast has to offer for security)

Finally it will be a crime to refuse the mark, and death will be the penalty.

Will taking the Mark in the early stages cause people to become spiritually enslaved even though they are only taking it for economic reasons?

Can people repent of taking the mark? Scripture is not explicit either way.

Jesus said if your right hand offends you, to cut it off. The mark will go on the Right hand or forehead.

Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728

Icon 1 posted      Profile for WhiteEagle     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Bat Elohim:


i don't really believe in the pre-trib rapture... but, i do hope that it is true! how could i not hope for that!!

I would like to answer WhiteEagle's questions...
quote:
1.What will you do if the anitchrist is revealed and you're still planted on earth?
I will rejoice that Yahweh has found me fit and able enough to allow me to be a Tribulation Saint and possibly a Martyr for Him. I will rejoice that He has revealed the enemy so that I will know who he is and can guard myself and my son and warn my family.


quote:
2.Will you deny it's really the antichrist because you're still on earth?
no. Yah's ways are not man's ways... we will have to admit we were wrong, allow Yah to comfort us and move on.

quote:
3. Perhaps pre-tribbers could accept the mark of the beast because they believe it CAN"T be the Mark since they are still on earth.
i'm sure that some will probably receive a physical mark, but like Mrs. Betty said... Yah'shua already has His mark on our hearts and minds. I think that if the physical mark requires worshiping a false god like revelations seems to say, then true Christians will realize the truth and not take the mark.

quote:
4. Will finding yourself in the midst of the Great Tribulation shake your faith?
i'm sure that it will shake everyone's faith!!! such horrors that are to come! but he who holds fast to the end will be saved!
just because your faith is shaken, doesn't mean that it is lost or broken. Sometimes we need to be shaken to wake us up.

it reminds me of the time when i was a child and my cat was exploring a paper bag. when it had gone inside i snatched the bag up and shook the mess out of that bag with the cat inside. that cat got out alive. he still knew he was a cat afterwards and he knew i was the enemy who had shaken him. I knew he was a cat too... i had the marks to prove it that he left on me in his eagerness to get away!! that cat was more cautious around me from then on. he never went into a paper bag again either.

Thanks for answering. I appreciate it and would agree with you.

But you admit you are open to other scenarios of the end times and are not convinced like Texas grandma and Favor and Grandma jo that Pre-trib is the ultimate and only thing taught in scripture, so you are sort of like me in being able to see that other things can happen that are not in the Left Behind series.

Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
whitesands777
Advanced Member
Member # 3424

Icon 1 posted      Profile for whitesands777     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The bible says that the dead in Christ will rise first...

If the pre trib view is correct that the church will be rapturd so that they can avoid the great tribulation then why would the dead need to be raised first ? Are they raised and raptured so they can avoid the great tribulation too ?

Posts: 501 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Trenton D. Adams
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Actually whitesand, that's an interesting topic. I brought up a topic awhile back that shows that if the saints raise from the dead pre-trib, then there can't be saints here during the tribulation.

1. We know that saints are here during the tribulation, because the Word says we are persecuted during that time, and infact some of us will die for His name.
2. Then we have the fact that there's only two resurrections.
3. Then we have the fact that all the saints reign with Christ for a thousand years.
4. Then we have the fact that the second resurrection is after the thousand year reign.

So, if sainst are resurrected at pre-trib, and saints die during the tribulation, they would have to be resurrected again to reign with Christ, right? If that's true, that would be the second resurrection, and the one after the thousand year reign would be the third resurrection. Scripture doesn't support three resurrections, only two.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Favor Minded
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There are MANY other Pre trib believers here - NOT just the ones you cited above...
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847

Icon 1 posted      Profile for TEXASGRANDMA     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is what Tim LaHye writes that he believes the rapture and the Glorious Appearing or two different events:


Rapture

1. Christ comes for His own
2. Believers taken up
3. Chrisitans taken to the Father’s House.
4. No judgment on earth.
5. The Church is taken to Heaven
6. Imminent; could happen now
7. No signs for the rapture
8. For believers only
9. A time of joy
10. Occurs before the day of wrath.
11. No mention of Satan
12. The judgment seat of Christ.
13. Wedding of the Lamb
14. Only His own see Him
15. Tribulation begins

Glorious Appearing

1. Christ comes in the air with His Own to earth
2. No one taken up
3. Resurrected saints do not see the Father’s house.
4. Christ judges the inhabitans of Earth.
5. Christ sets up His kingdom on Earth
6. Can’t occur for at least seven years
7. Many signs for Christ coming.
8. Affects all mankind
9. A time of mourning
10. Occurs immediately after the tribulation.
11. Satan is bound in the bottomless pit for one thousand years
12. no time or place for the judgment seat
13. His bride descends with Him
14. Every eye shall Him
15. One thousand year kingdom of Christ begins.

“I don’t see how these two sets of wildly different descriptions could possibly refer to the same thing. Do you? I think it much more likely-in fact, necessary to see them as two distinct phases of Christ long- prophesied coming.”
This comes from “The Merciful God of Prophecy


As far as the saints during the tribulation, the Bible says that there will be 144 thousand Jews that will be saved and will be given the ministry of preaching all over the world. Because of the faithfulness of these, many will refuse the mark and accept Jesus.


The rapture was not written in the Bible to divide the Church but to comfort us. To tell us that we will not have to withstand the tribulation and the wrath of God but that we will be taken away to safety to Heaven for the marriage of the lamb. The devil has taken a source of comfort and joy and brought discord and friction to the Church itself.


2Th 2:7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
This shows that the anit – christ cannot do his thing until the Church has been removed from earth.

1Th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1Th 4:18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Notice this is given as a source of comfort for the believer. The promise of the rapture is to comfort the Church. The devil has used it to divide the Church and sew discord. How very sad, indeed!

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gramajo320
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Favorminded and Texas Grandma.

Amen to your postings!

Yes there most certainly are many more pre-trib believers than just the three of us who were mentioned! God bless you always!

In Christ's love,
Gramajo320

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This tread started out to lighten the discussion on this issue, but it has turned out to have some very interesting perspectives.

I so wish that we could discuss the pre-trib rapture point for point. In three years here I have not seen it possible to be done thuroughty and honestly and in good spirit.

I think that should tell us something of how important it really is. God is not the author of confusion.

I really believe that it is an issue that God wants us to understand and not just something that is incidental because it speaks volumes about who we are and who HE is.

We look at the coming Great Tribulation and we think well the Apostles were all put through tribulation and the early church fathers, people have been persecuted and burned at the stake etc... but I do not think we realize that those things that have been and are going on even now where saints are being persecuted pales in comparison to what is coming.

We also our failure to understand this issue is indicative of our failure to understand other important things in scripture. Daniel's 70th week; God's mercy and love for Daniel's people; God's judgment and wrath on the world; God's fulfilment of the promise made to Abraham "I will bless those who bless you and CURSE those who curse you. These are just some of the things that we misunderstand because we look at the confusion the enemy has bread into the idea of no raputre; pre-mid-post rapture. This does not even deal with issues of citizenship, or of what it is that who is promised for an inheritence.

Ok, I will get off my soap box but I do pray that each of us would not take this issue as unimportant... ALLL the prophets and the Law... all the scriptures speak of Christ... of GOD as he has revealed himself to his people and as he will reveal himself to the nations both goat and sheep nations through his SON, Jesus of Nazareth the Messiah. Not one portion of scripture can be discounted as truly non essential...because ALL the scriptures speak of Christ.

I have said and I will say again. The post tribbers have some things that need to be considered, the mid tribbers too, but it is possible to consider them and not void them or obsolete them and still come to the place of a Pre-Trib rapture. My personal opinion and study has found that this is not true of the other two views. You simply have to disregared something that speaks to pre-trib in order to accept mid and post. But this is something we all should desire to know if it be true or not and we will never know this if we continue to approach the subject with blinders on that keep us from considering that some of our brothers and sisters with whom we disagree may have something that we need to see. We need to study this issue without all the paradigms of men that we have and seek God and HIS truth, because there is one very black and white truth. And I suspect that all these views have some of it. I say this of course to those who have not studied this out in full. Some I know have done this.

Ok, I promise now (stepping down off the soapbox)

I wanted to speak to a couple of comments here:

Regarding the mark; I think we need to understadn what the mark is. Then we will not be confused about who will take it or can take it; and sadly if I have anything against LaHaye, it is that he has allowed his books to teach falsely that one can by mistake take the mark and still be saved.

The mark of the beast is seal, it is a physical mark that is a counterfeit of the Spiritual mark of Christ. We are also marked - sealed- with the seal of the HOLY spirit of GOD unto the judgement. The Holy Spirit's seal says this article (us- person) belongs to the KING of Kings; I have declared this scroll that is this person and sealed it, authenticating it with my seal says God of those who are sealed by God. It is a sign of alegence, it is a mark of declaration, like the signant of the kings of old. A document is sealed by the king as being authentically his. We are sealed by the King of Kings. Those who will receive the mark are sealed with the seal of the present king of this world who is about to be dethroned; but we are not citizens of this world or subjects of the lord of this world.

Revelation 13:8 says this of those who are worshipping the dragon (Satan) who gives power to the first beast and also they are worshiping the beast:

Revelation 13:88 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Those who are written in book of Life of the Lamb do not...cannot worship Satan.


9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

11 ¶ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

This second beast looks like a lamb (Sheep) and speaks like dragon (satan)

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

this person uses all the power of the first beast that got his power from the dragon(satan) he causes the people dwelling in the earth to worship the first beast... who worships the first beast? Those whose names were not written in the book of life of the Lamb.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,


14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Those who dwell on the earth are deceived by his miracles. HIS MIRACLES DECEIVE. (The second beast's miracles deceive) And he tells the people to make an image of the first beast.

The first beast has a seat of great authority and was like a leapord (Daniel's Leapord was Greece) with the legs of a bear (Daniel's bear was Medo Persia) and this beast's mouth was that of a lion - (Daniel's Lion was Babylon) So those who are dwelling in the earth at this time and are deceived by the beast's miracles are those who are not written in the Lamb's book and they worship the beast, and they are convinced by the miracles of the second beast to make an image of the first beast who has been given a seat of Authority and is like Greece, but has legs like Persia and a a mouth like Babylon.


15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. {life: Gr. breath}

Now remember this. The people dwelling in the earth made the image of the beast. And the second beast has the power to give life to the image of the beast that the people created and the IMAGE of the beast has the power to do (2) things: Speak and cause those who will not worship the image to be killed.


16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: {to receive: Gr. to give them}17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

and he (the image of the beast (which was created by the people) that has been given life by the 2nd beast causes all small & great, rich & poor free and slave to receive the mark in their right hand or their forehead and that no man might by or sell except the one that has the mark.... or the name of the beast (the first beast) or the number of the First Beast's name.


18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The number of the beast - the first beast is a number of a man and his number is 666.

I don't know if this helps you to see something about those who take the mark; they are those whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb of God.

So, what do we need to make sure? That our names are written in the book of life of the lamb... examine yourselves said Peter... make your calling and election sure.

Jesus said when asked by the disciples what works shall we do....

John 6:28 ¶ Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Paul said if you labour labour for this....

Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
PS... to Trenton.

Not all who are saints are also bride of Christ, and the rapture of the church is not a resurrection.

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316

Icon 14 posted      Profile for SoftTouch     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I so wish that we could discuss the pre-trib rapture point for point. In three years here I have not seen it possible to be done thuroughty and honestly and in good spirit.

I think that should tell us something of how important it really is. God is not the author of confusion.

I really believe that it is an issue that God wants us to understand and not just something that is incidental because it speaks volumes about who we are and who HE is.

I would LOVE to see us able to discuss this the way it should be discussed! I would very much like to fully understand (Scripturally) the Pre-Trib view. I'm one of those who has Not studied this out... I've only read what others have written and I would love to see this presented Point by Point and backed by Scripture. I hope and pray we on this board can come to a place where that is doable (without us fighting over it [Wink] )

--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847

Icon 1 posted      Profile for TEXASGRANDMA     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I thought that Tim did a good job of addressing it point by point. But, I am no longer going to argue over the pre-trib. I believe it is backed by the Bible. But, I believe the pre-trib was given to us as a point of comfort. So we do not have to fear the tribulation. It should not be a point of contention among the brethren.

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316

Icon 7 posted      Profile for SoftTouch     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I just did a whole lot of research on the "Latter Rain" - the difference between today's different movements of the current teaching on it and what the Bible actually says about it. I did a post in the Bible Topics section. "Understanding the "Early" and "Latter" Rain"

After reading what Joel's prophecy was Really about and the article I posted, I'm Really Starting to see the Pre-Trib view in a whole new light! I remember Linda's post a Long time ago about the connection between the Jewish Engagement/Wedding traditions and how that correlates with the Rapture and Second Coming. It's starting to make sense to me now!

I wish I had followed that thread you're talking about more closely Betty. I hope at a future time (if we're still here that is [Wink] ) we'll have an opportunity to Study this out and I can have completely open eyes [Smile]

--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
whitesands777
Advanced Member
Member # 3424

Icon 1 posted      Profile for whitesands777     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Not all who are saints are also bride of Christ, and the rapture of the church is not a resurrection.
The Bible says the dead in Christ will rise first(sounds like a resurrection)....Then those that are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.


1 Thessalonians 4

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first : 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Posts: 501 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Favor Minded
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So you agree the Lord could come at any moment, and when he does he is going to split the mount of olives.

If this happens today - What about the rest of the tribulation? The Son of Perdition?

Is all of that False?

Or, are you saying that Jesus IS NOT COMING yet?

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
When does one become dead in Christ?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
whitesands777
Advanced Member
Member # 3424

Icon 1 posted      Profile for whitesands777     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
When does one become dead in Christ?

I think I know where you're going with this and understand where you may be coming from...That the dead in Christ are all people in the faith of Jesus being physically alive, but dead to self in repentance and having faith in Jesus and that they will rise first being caught up in the air...

However, that interpretation would be out of context with the passage below...It is made clear what is meant by dead in Christ..We're talking about those that have died having faith in Jesus...Peter, Paul, Steven, and John are all examples of those that have literally and physically died in Christ...

Read the passage below carefully and you'll see what was meant by the dead in Christ.






1 Thessalonians 4

13"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words."


Paul was speaking to people that were born again Christians...That at the coming of the Lord the dead in Christ will rise first and Christians that are alive at that time of His coming will be caught up.

Posts: 501 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
whitesands777
Advanced Member
Member # 3424

Icon 1 posted      Profile for whitesands777     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
So you agree the Lord could come at any moment, and when he does he is going to split the mount of olives.

Jesus said we won't know the day nor the hour, but we can know when it is near by observing the signs that He told us we would see....

For example, when the Great tribulation occurs even Christians may not be aware that it is the end time tribulation that is prophesied, however they will be aware of the nearness of His coming because they are seeing prophetic signs occuring. The confirming of the covenant might occur without anyone being aware of it, but we see negotiations going on between the international community and Israel. That's a sign but will we know exactly when it is confirmed ?

What I'm saying is that when the prophetic clock starts ticking when the 70th week begins, we may not even have a mental timetable to know exactly where we are or maybe not even when it has begun...But the signs will be everywhere.

I'm saying all this in just speculation on my part of how it could be like in our perception of things...I know the prophesies are sure and true...
But my opinions on how we could perceive it may not be correct.
You know really that's all we can do..To know what God said will occur and watch because these prophecies can occur with accuracy sharper than a razor and it could occur in a way much different than what we have imagined.

Posts: 501 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am well aware of the context. That is not exactly where I was going.

Let me ask you this differently.... When your body dies, where are you going? If your body dies today where will you be tonight?

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
whitesands777
Advanced Member
Member # 3424

Icon 1 posted      Profile for whitesands777     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I am well aware of the context. That is not exactly where I was going.

Let me ask you this differently.... When your body dies, where are you going? If your body dies today where will you be tonight?

Well, I believe I will be with the Lord, as other Christians are when they die because it is written "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."
Posts: 501 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316

Icon 3 posted      Profile for SoftTouch     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by whitesands777:
Well, I believe I will be with the Lord, as other Christians are when they die because it is written "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."

Hummm... I think I'm getting this. If to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, then those who have died (in the body) before us have "Preceeded" us already!

--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator



This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Church Webs | Privacy Statement



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

The Christian Message Board Rules - Please Read

Christian Visual Media  Bible MP3  Hear Good News  Free Facebook Covers  Jesus Videos  Jesus
Christian Website Host  Watch Videos  Chat Christian Search Engine Evangelism  Graphics  Movies