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Author
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Topic: D.C. want's to 'MicroChip' residents
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Miguel
Advanced Member
Member # 47
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trafield:
quote:
The economics of building a battery small enough to power the chip for more than a few days would be astronomical.
Huggybear,
What you apparently do not know is that the Verichip/Digital Angel was designed to be self-contained and to operate and be energized by muscle movement. Therefore, there is no battery.
They should use that technology for cars (no batteries)
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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Trafield
unregistered
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posted
quote:
The economics of building a battery small enough to power the chip for more than a few days would be astronomical.
Huggybear,
What you apparently do not know is that the Verichip/Digital Angel was designed to be self-contained and to operate and be energized by muscle movement. Therefore, there is no battery.
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Trafield
unregistered
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posted
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When it operates, RFID chips locally transmit a unique number. That's all it can do.
No, actually it can be used to transmit a specific number, and can therefore be be used for financial transactions.
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At my last job on a Naval Space Surveillence Station, the GPS receivers that we used to obtain timing data were 18 inches wide, by two inches tall, by 9 or 10 inches deep.
How many years ago was your last job?
I have heard reported that technology is now tripling every year. Remember, just a short 30 years ago, the computer I am typing on would have needed to fill an entire room. I appreciate your insight, but I will agree to disagree with you concerning the RFID chip's GPS tracking capabilities. With your experience, you must know that cell phones can be tracked by GPS. They do not use much voltage.
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HuggyBear
Advanced Member
Member # 2195
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posted
Trafield,
There could be a battery and a chip in some university or research firm that is small enough to be injectible and might transmit information like longitude and latitude for a year without a recharge, but I really doubt it. If there is such an animal, it's probably cost a ton of dollars plus to produce each one. What that article says is that everybody in Washington D. C. is going to have the technology of a wireless phone and a GPS receiver injected into thier skin. Lets do the cost analysis using commercial off the shelf technolgy. The population of Washington DC as of April 2000 was 572,059( http://www.pe.net/~rksnow/dc.htm#statistics ). Give everybody a wireless phone($79.99 after mail in rebate(http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/splash/nationalPromo/cameraPhone.jsp?price=a) and a GPS receiver(about $250 dollars http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005OLY8/002-2136871-9539209?v=glance). The city of Wash. D.C. would have to fork out $188,207,411 for this venture. If it were physically possible to shrink these two technologies together into an injectible form, at this time, the cost would be even more prohibitive. Then, you have to throw in the lawsuits from the ACLU and other privacy advocates that would tie up the process for years( recall the court decisions on injections of anthrax vaccine in the military).
Yes I have heard about VeriChip, what is called an RFID chip. And yes, it does operate from at a very low voltage( It is a passive device, doesn't even have it's own power supply [ see a similar unit at http://www.avidid.com/technology/index.html ]). I will try to keep this from getting too technical, so that you might understand that there is no present danger of being tracked by the VeriChip or any other RFID chip at this time, by just being out in the street.
When it operates, RFID chips locally transmit a unique number. That's all it can do. It can't transmit location data, because in order to do that, it would have to have a GPS receiver built into it. At my last job on a Naval Space Surveillence Station, the GPS receivers that we used to obtain timing data were 18 inches wide, by two inches tall, by 9 or 10 inches deep. These passed on thier timing data using coaxial cable, in the form of IRIG G timing format.
You can get GPS receivers that will display the location data(longitude, latitude in minutes and seconds) as small as a hand held FSR (Family Service Radio)radio(about three by two by one inch). These typically operate (receive)off of two to four AA or AAA(1.5 volt each) batteries, hooked up in series configuration to produce three to six volts. The batteries will give you up to a day of receiving time.
A hand held, digital wireless phone typically requires a 3.6 volt battery to transmit voice or text messaging data to towers that are set up every five miles or so. The batteries for wireless phones typically are litium ion these days, giving the user up to a 110 hours of standby time(waiting to transmit or receive) and several hours of transmit(in use) time. These batteries can be as small as a book of matches.
Here is the blerb from the url you posted.
"About the size of a grain of rice, each VeriChip product contains a unique verification number and will be available in several formats." Commentary: This means that the chip will be programmed by Applied Digital Solution or the company producing them, as far as it's unique ID number. That's all the data this chip can hold at the time. There is no timing information, no latitude or longitudal information, nothing but a unique digital number(probably 128 bit digitally signed and could be posibly encrypted).
" The verification number is captured by briefly passing a proprietary scanner over the VeriChip." Commentary: This means you have to have a special tool to see the unique number, very much like a scanner at the supermarket that picks up UPC codes on packaging.
"A small amount of radio frequency energy passes from the scanner energizing the dormant VeriChip, which then emits a radio frequency signal transmitting the verification number." Commentary: The radio frequency scanner "excites" the chips circuitry, waking it up to do it's job. I haven't seen the technical data on it, but I imagnine the scanner operates at less than 1 watt of radiated power(a bright light bulb is 100 watts), less power than a hand held radio or cell phone, meaning there would be little danger of radiation illnesses. The key word here is "dormant". The VeriChip doesn't transmit anything without the scanner waking it up. Why? Because it doesn't have a battery. It relies on the scanner to induce a power into it for it to transmit it's information. Economics and physical characteristics of the chip probably govern the VeriChip's tranmitting range, along with the effective radiated power of the scanner. Why have the chip transmit for miles when you can have it transmit only a few feet, thus the need for the scanner, to pick up the unique ID number transmitted. The scanner would have the receiver in it. Also, there is the matter of security why you wouldn't want the chip to transmit very far. Someone with enough money could receive the unique ID number and duplicate it, the same way that cellular and wireless phone ESN(electronic serial numbers) are pick up out of the air and duplicated.
The economics of building a battery small enough to power the chip for more than a few days would be astronomical. I go back to the explanation about cellular or wireless phone batteries. These typically cost $30 to $50 dollars and are the size of a book of matches. And these batteries only last a couple of hours worth of transmission time.
The principle behind the wake up of the chip is nothing earth-shaking. It's called "induction". Radio Frequency(RF) induction is what makes a cup of water boil when the microwave oven is turned on for about 2 minutes @ 700watts.
There isn't anything earth shaking about the size. Since 1990, AND gates(a circuit made up of transistors, capacitors and diodes that form the basis for computer technology) have been in the molecular size.
The only thing even moderately earth-shaking is that they can manufacture and program a VeriChip RFID at a "throw-away" cost. These are going to be used in warehousing at first, to track stock, at first. Then, as the company says on it's website, it can be used to boost personnel security.
I do think that these will be common place enough in the future to be the "mark of the beast".
First, the throw away price. If they are cheap now, just wait until there is competition.
Second, the ease of marking people. Imagine the number of tattoo artists it would take to mark people permanently. It would be quicker to simply inject them with a VeriChip. In the future, they will be even smaller. You are in and out in like a innoculation station in the military.
Thirdly, it would have to be unique, not easily duplicated. An RFID chip under the skin would not be easily duplicated, where as an outward mark on the skin could be done by a tattoo artist or with inks and an airbrush.
Matthew 10:28 (KJV) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
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(1Corinthians 13:13) Right now three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Posts: 32 | From: New Mexico | Registered: Oct 2003
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Trafield
unregistered
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posted
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I have read the article in question( http://www.dcwatch.com/themail/2002/02-02-17.htm )and have concluded that it is nothing more than wishful thinking on the part of the author. I say this with confidence, having 30 years experience in electronics, radios and computers. The voltage required to operate a chip that would transmit one's GPS location is beyond what could be injected into the human body.
Huggybear,
No offense, but your statement makes me wonder just how current your "experience" is. I am no expert, but I do know that, contrary to your statement, that it takes very little voltage to transmit a signal. What you need is a sophisticated enough antenna/receiver system that can pinpoint even a weak, low voltage signal. Much like what we do with the current probes on Mars. These probes use very little energy. And if we can receive their signals from Mars, searching for a chip under an individual's skin here on Earth is a piece of cake, and is very possible today.
Are you familiar with Verichip?
http://www.4verichip.com/
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HuggyBear
Advanced Member
Member # 2195
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posted
"It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen. Winston Smith, his chin nuzzled into his breast in an effort to escape the vile wind, slipped quickly through the glass doors of Victory Mansions, though not quickly enough to prevent a swirl of gritty dust from entering along with him." The opening paragraph to "Nineteen eighty-four", by George Orwell.
I have read the article in question( http://www.dcwatch.com/themail/2002/02-02-17.htm )and have concluded that it is nothing more than wishful thinking on the part of the author. I say this with confidence, having 30 years experience in electronics, radios and computers. The voltage required to operate a chip that would transmit one's GPS location is beyond what could be injected into the human body. Just think about "On-Star", the locator service provided by General Motors. It requires the voltage produced by a car battery to transmit the location of the subscriber's car to a satellite.
Try injecting a car battery under the skin.
Even low voltage processor chips still operate at three to five volts. A lithium watch battery, the one's that are about the size of a quarter, can produce 3 volts. You may be able to operate a watch for a year, but you couldn't get much transmission time out of one. Just think about the size of the battery in your digital cell phone, and how long it lasts on a charge.
![[type]](graemlins/type.gif)
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(1Corinthians 13:13) Right now three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Posts: 32 | From: New Mexico | Registered: Oct 2003
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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
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posted
I remember reading a story on how Clinton had started a pilot program for 'chipping' volunteers in the Federal Government a couple of years ago. I can't remember Where I read that... I think it may have been "Free Republic"??? I don't know about the validity of that letter, but I do remember the other story (I think there was something about it on Fox News once too) and that's why I posted the letter. I really hate having such a Bad Memory! ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
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Trafield
unregistered
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posted
Softouch,
I have my doubts about the validity of this story. For one, the acticle was written in February, 2002. Though it is possible there was a pilot program where volunteers were chipped in DC, I wonder why this did not get coverage when the family in Palm Beach, FL received coverage of their 'chipping.'
Also, the letter seems a little too blatant in its trashing our freedoms for the sake of security and the "trust us" statement in the letter just does not sound like a realistic response when they must know that there would be privacy groups all over this.
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
The weather is nice here in South Dakota.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Christy4Christ
Advanced Member
Member # 2688
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posted
This is ridiculous! Do any of them at all read the bible? How stupid can they be? I won't do it I know that for sure.
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Matthew 5:44 - But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Posts: 454 | From: Hollywood, Florida | Registered: Jan 2004
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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
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posted
The following is a letter indicating that Washington, D.C. is looking to ‘chip’ all people in the near future… I am NOT happy about this!
http://www.dcwatch.com/themail/2002/02-02-17.htm
It’s for Your Own Good
Dear Citizen Winston Smith:
Thank you for your inquiry about the Metropolitan Police Department's recent pilot program, in which we tested injectible Dual-purpose Micro Verification chips, or DMVs, in volunteers. This program has been a complete success, and I am confident that the Mayor will propose and the newly constituted mayorally appointed City Council will soon pass legislation making this program universal in the District of Columbia. As you are aware, the Surveillance Protection and Identification Elements, or SPIEs, that we have been using for the past two decades are subject to unintended lapses. The facial identification software is not perfect, as the recent reversal of several unfortunately mistaken convictions based on it has shown. The vehicle identification cameras, as we have admitted in the past, can identify vehicles, but, even after numerous improvements, cannot always reliably identify drivers and passengers. The DMVs combine in one small, convenient microchip — no larger than a grain of rice and easily and painlessly injectible — both a unique and unalterable identification number and a global positioning unit. And since the SPIEs can be upgraded to interface seamlessly with the DMVs, any such mistakes will be eliminated in the future. We shall have a permanent GPS-based record of your movements at all times, and whenever you are in a public space or public building we shall be able to match that with our already existing Enhanced-DVD records of your activities.
Our purpose, as always, is to serve and protect you, our valued citizen. The more we know about you, the more easily we can locate you to assist you in an emergency. The better and more reliably we can trace your movements, the better we can ensure your safety. Several of the subjects in our pilot DMV program have told us that they felt much safer and more secure just knowing that their MPD could locate them at all times, any time of the day. They have told us how much better it would be if every citizen of the District of Columbia were equipped with DMVs, so that we could also always know who was with them, and encouraged us to make the DMV program universal and mandatory.
You have expressed some reservations about this program and said that you worry about the possibility that the DMVs may compromise your privacy in some way. Let me assure you that the MPD and the government of the District of Columbia will always work in your interests. You can trust us completely. You have my personal guarantee that we will never abuse this program. Let me also assure you that rumors that the pilot program has led to abuses are false. The officers who were accused of tracking or spying on individuals have been fully cleared, and even as I write to you it is my first priority to identify and eliminate from the MPD those who spread these malicious and false rumors. Your privacy will not be compromised, because we will always keep private any information that we collect about your whereabouts and the people with whom you associate. This information will be disclosed only to authorized government officials or to others who have a legitimate need to know it. Besides, as the Washington Post has recently editorialized, “Only people with something to hide worry about their privacy.” I am sure that, after you have been fitted with your own DMV, you will also feel an enhanced sense of safety and security, just knowing that we are that much better able to look after and protect you.
Gary Imhoff
themail@dcwatch.com
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
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