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Topic: President Bush continues to promote pagan religions
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
Boy, I pray that we are all still growing! I am quite sure that God has shared many things with you that he will use you to bless me with Softtouch! That is the way he works! Isn't he awesome!!!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
Excellent perspective and Thank You for helping me see that the right way!
I was one of those you spoke of... "Oh, he's a Christian... he's just what we need in the White House..." Duh ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
I agree totally with your post! Be patient with me... I'm still growing LOL! ![[updown]](graemlins/updown.gif) ![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
Be careful that you dont miss this point: "Then you will not take pride in one man over against another."
Too many have looked at Bush as some sort of messiah that would saved us from the likes of another four years of Clinton scandal. Many had an attitude of "Oh, he is Christian! therefore he is what we need in the whitehouse."
God wants us to know that HE and HE alone is our redeemer and He and He alone will heal the land of the people that turn to HIM.
Bush was voted into office by people; but Bush was allowed to take office as was Clinton, by God. God will use the right man for the HIS purpose. Is his purpose to move american into a theocracy? To restore some great Christian nation to its once proud place of glory?
I think not. Globally, God's purpose is to move the earth and all that dwell in it another step along the prophectic return of Christ. Just as God used Cyrus to rebuild Jerusalem, he will use the Bushes and the Sadaam's of the world to move us closer to that day that his vengence is poured out.
Because Bush calls himself a Christian, then we as members of the same body are called to judge his actions and to call sin sin, as Trafield has pointed out. That judgement is made juslty buy cleaning our own eyes before attempting to clean his, but still to aide him in cleaning his.
Likewise, MAC and Salti and others are right in that we are called to use weapons of spiritual warfare, praying for president Bush that he be led by God.
And still, none of this should cause us to keep silent about the blatant acts of apostasy and paganism that we see. We cannot allow the world to believe for one minute that it is appropriate for a member of the Bride of Christ to endorse pagan gods and bow before them. Surely, we should be a little like Jeramiah in this regard.
We need to realize that the Church and Christianity in America looks a lot like the Northern Tribes of Israel in the day of Jeramiah and that should be a warning to us that we come out of Babylon.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
I was looking for passages that show we should bring falsness into the light when I came across this passage:
1 Corinthians 4
4My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.
6Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
I stand corrected and Humbled before the Lord. It's not my place to Judge the motives of Bush or anyone else... boy did I oops!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
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Trafield
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posted
quote:
The pharisees delighted in pointing out others sins. Lets delight in doing what we can to pray for and restore this man, if such is the case that that needs done.
An excellent point if you also point out the hypocrisy of the pharisees who themselves did not know the Truth. But if we have the Spirit of God within us, and know the Truth of His Word, we are called to shed light on the darkness, and to point out the stumbling blocks of sin in others.
We are called to first take the log out of our own eye before we cann see to take the speck out of the eyes of others.
This does not say to overlook the specks, but to take the specks out.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
Matthew 7:1-5
1“Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
2“For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
3“Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
4“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye?
5“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
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Salti
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I am in agreement with Mac here..
Posted by MAC
quote:
From all the post I have read so far it looks like instead of putting your eyes on God you are putting it in the President, if you believed any of what he is saying concerning his faith let be; if you don’t like what he is doing move on it is not in his power to cause any changes that have not been establish already by GOD!
Just look at him as a man that have done a well job in the white house like no other and keep your hope on God and not a sinner like us…. The bashing of words will come for the next President whether he is a Christian or not.
In what way does us sitting here pointing fingers and accusing Bush help change anything? He is in a position to make decisions and to have to answer to the Lord for those decisions. He is our president because thats how the citizens of our country voted. If we don't like the things that he is doing, we can address those things, but lets not let our views of whether he has done right or wrong cause us to stumble here. Be sure that when you post something about another individual, that you are not slandering them or gossiping.
I believe that the following post is quite a wise one.......
Posted by Homebound
quote:
This thread makes me think of Peter denying Christ, even after saying he would lay down his life for Him. There are many opinions about what President Bush should or shouldn't be doing, but who can truly know what we would do if we were "in Peter's shoes" - or in President Bush's.
Did the Lord love Peter any less because of his denial? Did the other disciples love Peter less because of it? In the long run, the experience ended up making Peter stronger in his love and commitment to the Lord.
There must be a tremendous amount of pressure on the President from his top advisors to be "politically correct" about religious issues with the election being less than a year away. He is greatly in need of our prayers.
The pharisees delighted in pointing out others sins. Lets delight in doing what we can to pray for and restore this man, if such is the case that that needs done.
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Miguel
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Member # 47
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posted
In just this is that you base your views on GB, is not enough to just rely upon. No offence but your information does not tells me anything to come to the conclusion you have come, I read many news papers and good or bad they have address his progress and good judgment.
New York Post
Times
Times Herald
The Washington Times
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Florida Today
Record net and others
I will rest on this issue, Good Day.
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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Miguel
Advanced Member
Member # 47
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by PhilipIHS:
quote:
Originally posted by MAC: You have stated that GB have lie to us in going war and so forth and how he have deceive the American people but I don hear from you the reality of the connection between saddam and osama in connection with the twin towers this people have come to us we did not went to them but they came to our land and cause that kind of terror.
After many lies about 9-11 and Saddam, even the Bush administration has finally admitted that there is no connection between Saddam and 9-11. But, you should have known this already has Bush never did provide any significant evidence of a connection. No money to pay for 9-11 has ever been traced to Iraq, but to Saudi Arabia and Osuma. Not a single Iraqi was involved in 9-11, but mostly Saudis. Saddam didn't give the hijackers any weapons, unless he handed them a box cutter. The US, not Iraq, provided the flying lessons. Yet, in vengeance for 9-11, we overthrew two innocent countries and killed many tens of thousands of innocent people.
Al Qaeda and Saddam were enemies, in spite of the occasional contect between the two. The only terrorist camps in Iraq were in US protected Kurdish territory. If Saddam could have, he would have gone in and mowed them all down and you and Bush could have cried about how brutal Saddam is.
Bush said "We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the 11 September attacks." It's poor style to hold an obvious lie even after the liar admits to something else.
quote:
You and I don’t have any idea of the magnitude of living in fear each day and the people of Iraq have seen a light of hope for the first time in their lives.
You don't have any idea. The average Iraqi who was not a criminal or working to be enemy of the state had nothing to fear from Saddam. Besides, if this were a charity mission for the Iraqi people, Bush should have said that was the puprose of the war from the start, instead of just a new excuse because the WMD thing didn't pan out.
Do you worry about the fear of the Palestinian from the Isreali occupiers? Or, does their fear not count because you're on the side of Israel? Why should the fear of Saddam's enemy matter to us?
quote:
Don’t forget that all this was past unto GB from the prior administration
The fist attempt to bring down the WTC, a huge bomb at the bottom, was a problem from the Bush administration prior to Clinton. What does this have to do with anything? When the next major attack occurs on US soil, are you then going to blame Bush for the couple dozen daily attacks against Americans now? If not, why blame Clinton for any dead Americans?
BTW, Mac, SoftTouch, in another thread, I refuted RaptureWatcher's claim that Saddam had WMDs. Maybe he can show interest in verity by sharing in this thread the problem with his evidence.
May I askeed you, where do you get this information or what newspapers do you read so that I may follow it also and read.
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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Trafield
unregistered
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posted
If only the South would have won, eh Phil? ![[BooHoo]](graemlins/boohoo.gif)
(I am being sarcastic by the way...)
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Trafield
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quote:
After re-reading John 21 in a study bible about Peter's actions and the Lord's words to him after the crucifixion and before Pentecost, I disagree with this. Peter walked daily, side-by-side with the Lord, in the flesh, but yet denied him. That would seem to many to be pretty inexcusable; yet we have the benefit of knowing how that situation turned out in the long run.
Yet you cannot deny that though he walked with Christ, Christ was not in him, for the Holy Spirit would not come until Christ's ascention. And you cannot deny the stark difference in his boldness after the crucifixion than before. Note that in Matthew 16:23 Jesus had to tell Peter, "Get behind me, Satan!" for Peter was putting his own agenda before God's Will.
We are all sinners and fall short of God's glory, but we should be careful not to excuse unfaithfulness and unrighteousness in our lives and in the lives of others.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
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Homebound
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posted
Trafield wrote:
quote:
The thing that made Peter stronger was not his denial, but his faith after the crucifixion of our Lord. He was a different person after being filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. We have that same Spirit, if we believe in faith, so we are without excuse.
After re-reading John 21 in a study bible about Peter's actions and the Lord's words to him after the crucifixion and before Pentecost, I disagree with this. Peter walked daily, side-by-side with the Lord, in the flesh, but yet denied him. That would seem to many to be pretty inexcusable; yet we have the benefit of knowing how that situation turned out in the long run.
Posts: 40 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2003
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Trafield
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posted
quote:
Did the Lord love Peter any less because of his denial? Did the other disciples love Peter less because of it? In the long run, the experience ended up making Peter stronger in his love and commitment to the Lord.
The thing that made Peter stronger was not his denial, but his faith after the crucifixion of our Lord. He was a different person after being filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. We have that same Spirit, if we believe in faith, so we are without excuse.
quote:
There must be a tremendous amount of pressure on the President from his top advisors to be "politically correct" about religious issues with the election being less than a year away. He is greatly in need of our prayers.
Again, there are many martyrs for Christ every year that pay for their belief with their lives. That is pressure.
This "pressure" you are referring to is something we all experience every day as believers. This may come as a shock, but it is not easy being a Christian! We are told to take up our cross DAILY amd follow Him. It comes down to who we are willing to put first...God or the world?
But I agree Bush needs our prayers, for he needs more Jesus. We all do.
John 16:31-33
31Jesus answered them, “Do you now believe?
32“Behold, an hour is coming, and has already come, for you to be scattered, each to his own home, and to leave Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me.
33“These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”
Luke 9:23-26
23And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.
24“For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it.
25“For what is a man profited if he gains the whole world, and loses or forfeits himself?
26“For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory, and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.
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Homebound
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posted
This thread makes me think of Peter denying Christ, even after saying he would lay down his life for Him. There are many opinions about what President Bush should or shouldn't be doing, but who can truly know what we would do if we were "in Peter's shoes" - or in President Bush's.
Did the Lord love Peter any less because of his denial? Did the other disciples love Peter less because of it? In the long run, the experience ended up making Peter stronger in his love and commitment to the Lord.
There must be a tremendous amount of pressure on the President from his top advisors to be "politically correct" about religious issues with the election being less than a year away. He is greatly in need of our prayers.
Posts: 40 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2003
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
Tra, Thank You ![[Smile]](smile.gif) I've had a really bad day and seeing your post really cheered me up!
RaptureWatcher, thank your for posting that article! That's important information to know!
I agree that the war on terror is absolutely necessary and it was the right thing to do; but I also agree that Mr. Bush has completely compromised his witness for Jesus and I believe that will cause America more trouble then all the terrorists put together.
God Bless you All and I too see the Love and Patience here and am very greatful for it!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Miguel
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Member # 47
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posted
As a small business owner and a father it is my job to follow what goes in my house and out in the world but not always we know everything that happens. You have stated that GB have lie to us in going war and so forth and how he have deceive the American people but I don hear from you the reality of the connection between saddam and osama in connection with the twin towers this people have come to us we did not went to them but they came to our land and cause that kind of terror. The reports that come from Iraq are very clear of the activities of these terrors and if action wasn’t taken the way it was we would have been in greater danger than before. You and I don’t have any idea of the magnitude of living in fear each day and the people of Iraq have seen a light of hope for the first time in their lives. I don’t follow a propaganda I lived and follow it and according to my judgment a make my decision. Don’t forget that all this was past unto GB from the prior administration and the same way Arnold Schwarzenegger got this entire problem from the prior administration here in California. You have about a good 56% or more of American that have approved his job and those are one of the things I see.
But may the Lord guide us lead us.
Good Day
quote:
but I do see the love and patience in many of the posters here, including Mac.
They are there, love and patience.
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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rapturewatcher
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Member # 94
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posted
Saddam had WMD and was going to use them!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...requestid=49921
Revealed: the Iraqi colonel who told MI6 that Saddam could launch WMD within 45 minutes
By Con Coughlin
(Filed: 07/12/2003)
An Iraqi colonel who commanded a front-line unit during the build-up to the war in Iraq has revealed how he passed top secret information to British intelligence warning that Saddam Hussein had deployed weapons of mass destruction that could be used on the battlefield against coalition troops in less than 45 minutes.
Lt-Col al-Dabbagh, 40, who was the head of an Iraqi air defence unit in the western desert, said that cases containing WMD warheads were delivered to front-line units, including his own, towards the end of last year.
He said they were to be used by Saddam's Fedayeen paramilitaries and units of the Special Republican Guard when the war with coalition troops reached "a critical stage".
The containers, which came from a number of factories on the outskirts of Baghdad, were delivered to the army by the Fedayeen and were distributed to the front-line units under cover of darkness.
In an exclusive interview with the Telegraph, Col al-Dabbagh said that he believed he was the source of the British Government's controversial claim, published in September last year in the intelligence dossier on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, that Saddam could launch WMD within 45 minutes.
"I am the one responsible for providing this information," said the colonel, who is now working as an adviser to Iraq's Governing Council.
He also insisted that the information contained in the dossier relating to Saddam's battlefield WMD capability was correct. "It is 100 per cent accurate," he said after reading the relevant passage.
The devices, which were known by Iraqi officers as "the secret weapon", were made in Iraq and designed to be launched by hand-held rocket-propelled grenades. They could also have been launched sooner than the 45-minutes claimed in the dossier.
"Forget 45 minutes," said Col al-Dabbagh "we could have fired these within half-an-hour."
Local commanders were told that they could use the weapons only on the personal orders of Saddam. "We were told that when the war came we would only have a short time to use everything we had to defend ourselves, including the secret weapon," he said.
The only reason that these weapons were not used, said Col al-Dabbagh, was because the bulk of the Iraqi army did not want to fight for Saddam. "The West should thank God that the Iraqi army decided not to fight," he said.
"If the army had fought for Saddam Hussein and used these weapons there would have been terrible consequences."
Col al-Dabbagh, who was recalled to Baghdad to work at Iraq's air defence headquarters during the war itself, believes that the WMD have been hidden at secret locations by the Fedayeen and are still in Iraq. "Only when Saddam is caught will people talk about these weapons," he said.
During the Hutton inquiry into the death of Dr David Kelly, Sir Richard Dearlove, the head of MI6, said that the information contained in the intelligence dossier relating to the 45-minute claim had come from a single "established and reliable" source serving in the Iraqi armed forces. Privately British intelligence officers have claimed that they believe the original source was killed during the war.
Dr Kelly killed himself last July after it was revealed that he was the source of a BBC radio report claiming that the Labour Government had included the 45-minute claim against the wishes of MI6 to "sex up" the intelligence dossier.
Col al-Dabbagh, who spied for the Iraqi National Accord (INA), a London-based exile group, for several years before the war, said, however, that he provided several reports to British intelligence on Saddam's plans to deploy WMD from early 2002 onwards.
The INA, which was made up of retired and serving Iraqi officers and Ba'ath party officials, is known to have enjoyed a close relationship with MI6 and America's Central Intelligence Agency.
Dr Ayad Allawi, the head of the INA who is now a prominent member of the Governing Council in Baghdad, confirmed that he had passed Col al-Dabbagh's reports on Saddam's WMD to both British and American intelligence officers "sometime in the spring and summer of 2002".
Apart from providing intelligence on Saddam's WMD programme, Col al-Dabbagh also provided details of Iraq's troop and air defence deployments before the war.
Although he gave details of Iraq's battlefield WMD capability, he said that he had no knowledge of any plans by Saddam to use missiles to attack British bases in Cyprus and other Nato targets.
In the build-up to the conflict, Tony Blair was criticised by intelligence officials for giving the impression that Saddam had developed ballistic missiles that could carry WMD warheads and hit targets such as Israel and Britain's military bases in Cyprus.
But Col al-Dabbagh said that he doubted that Iraq under Saddam had this capability. "I know nothing about this. My information was only about what we could do on the battlefield."
Col al-Dabbagh, who received two death threats from Saddam loyalists days after his interview with the Telegraph, said that he was willing to travel to London to give evidence to the Hutton inquiry. "I was there and I knew what Saddam was doing before the war," he said.
An official close to the Hutton inquiry said: "What Mr Dabbagh has to say sounds very interesting and it is certainly new evidence that we will want to look at."
Posts: 187 | Registered: Jun 2002
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wparr
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posted
When it comes to Bush all the politcal issues are trivial compared to His witness as a "christian". Taxes, medicare reform, the war on terrorisim all take a back seat to The Kingdom of God.
If Bush is a Christian he is called to seek first God's Kingdom, he is called to be salt and light, he is called to stand firm in his walk with The Lord. He is called to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus as The Messiah; The Saviour; The Bread of life; The way,The Truth and The Life. He is to know tha NO ONE comes to The Father but thru Jesus.
I see a man who, as president of a nation that is only as great as it seeks after God, publically comprimising His witness. He holds celabrations of pagan gods in this country's house. He defends pagan religions while refusing to defend God's 10 commandments. He claims that islam's god is also our God. He doesn't even allow Jesus to be mentioned at the white house christmass tree lighting celabration for a holiday that is suppose to celibrate THE BIRTH OF JESUS.
This once great nation is falling apart because it nolonger honors or seeks after God. He as a professing christian is part of the problem. I want a brother or sister who will step in and be part of the cure. I want leaders who are Christians first and everything else second. Not someone who is a politician first, and christian when it benifits him politically.
When it comes election time I'm not voting for him, unless he repents. You may say that he is better than the alternitive choice, and I would agree, but I am not called to choose between the lesser of evils. I am called to choose good.
I do pray for Bush and the other leaders of this country that they seek and follow God's will.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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Trafield
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quote:
Soft Touch, Rapture Watcher, Born Again, etc. all do it to. So, nothing personal. But, people, open your minds.
I don't see Soft Touch as doing what you say, and think she seems very solid. And I see the all those you mentioned very open and willing to weigh the issues that we discuss against the Word of God. We are not always going to agree, but I do see the love and patience in many of the posters here, including Mac.
God bless you all in your faithfulness for even being on this board to discuss these important issues. It may be uncomfortable at times, but if we are always comfortable, it means we are not growing spiritually.
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Miguel
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trafield:
quote:
Originally posted by MAC:
if you don’t like what he is doing move on ... Just look at him as a man that have done a well job in the white house like no other
Because of the scripture that I posted on my last post, I cannot just move on. I look at Bush as a man who professes to be a Christian who likes to make an issue of his own faith. And therefore, he has a responsibility as an ambassador for Christ before being president of the United States. And because he has more influence then the average man, he should be held more accountable.
Therefore, as a professed Christian, when Bush makes claims that are contrary to scripture, such as Islam and Christianity worship the same God, then he need to be called on the deception he is promoting.
So instead of suggesting us to move on, I would expect you to also hold fast to the Truth of God's Word. For it is this Truth that we embrace, not the president...regardless of who it happens to be.
Yes! We out to stand firm in what the word of God indicates, in righteous order not in riot. Like so many I know.
Am with you on this one Trafield..
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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Trafield
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quote:
It is certainly not easy to be the president of all Americans - those of Hindu, Islamic, Seventh Day Adventists, Baptists, etc. backgrounds. Some maintain that he should be enemies with those that have different spiritual values or religions. I disagree!
It is also certainly not easy to be a martyred saint, dying for refusing to renounce your faith in Christ.
Yet if it is hard to stand firm on the little things of the faith, how does one expect to stand firm when things get really tough?
He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
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RioLion
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I am sure Mr. Bush as a Christian and as our head of state, has problems making decisions that would please everyone. With regard to his dialogue with Islamic groups, perhaps the only practical recourse he has is to be somewhat accommodating, in light of what he considers best for the country as a whole; not the best in the interest of some minority group.
It is certainly not easy to be the president of all Americans - those of Hindu, Islamic, Seventh Day Adventists, Baptists, etc. backgrounds. Some maintain that he should be enemies with those that have different spiritual values or religions. I disagree!
What do you do on election day? You vote for the candidate you think will serve the best interest of our country as a whole regardless of a few peculiar differences.
As a Christian, I would have problems voting for someone that would degrade the value system under which I live. Which of the candidate would advocate a policy that would hinder the spread of the gospel of Christ?
Would same-sex marriage be something that would be forced upon us, and would churches and private school be held accountable for not hiring someone that advocates a different sexual orientation that that of Scripture?
These and there are other questions that will have to be addressed.
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SoftTouch
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trafield:
I look at Bush as a man who professes to be a Christian who likes to make an issue of his own faith. And therefore, he has a responsibility as an ambassador for Christ before being president of the United States. And because he has more influence then the average man, he should be held more accountable.
Therefore, as a professed Christian, when Bush makes claims that are contrary to scripture, such as Islam and Christianity worship the same God, then he need to be called on the deception he is promoting.
So instead of suggesting us to move on, I would expect you to also hold fast to the Truth of God's Word. For it is this Truth that we embrace, not the president...regardless of who it happens to be.
I completely agree. Now this leaves me with a problem... what do I do on election day 2004? LOL!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Trafield
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quote:
Originally posted by MAC:
if you don’t like what he is doing move on ... Just look at him as a man that have done a well job in the white house like no other
Because of the scripture that I posted on my last post, I cannot just move on. I look at Bush as a man who professes to be a Christian who likes to make an issue of his own faith. And therefore, he has a responsibility as an ambassador for Christ before being president of the United States. And because he has more influence then the average man, he should be held more accountable.
Therefore, as a professed Christian, when Bush makes claims that are contrary to scripture, such as Islam and Christianity worship the same God, then he need to be called on the deception he is promoting.
So instead of suggesting us to move on, I would expect you to also hold fast to the Truth of God's Word. For it is this Truth that we embrace, not the president...regardless of who it happens to be.
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Miguel
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PhilipIHS
That is fine with me you are entitle to your opinions and your views; on the other hand whether he is or not your type of president he have accomplish significant amount of progress like no other president. Of course he is not perfect and I don’t expect from him the stars. But it is your views and your are welcome to express them. That is why we the people vote. Right!
It is nonsense for I don’t agree with you but if I agree with you is no more nonsense?
Religious freedom! You have already religious freedom! What kind of freedom are you looking for?
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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BORN AGAIN
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PhilipIHS says quote:
I don't know what Constitution you or any of the godless criminals who control the Supreme Court are reading, but the quote you should have provided is: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."
You are exactly right. Did I not say it was my paraphrase? But it amounts to the same things as my paraphrase: "the government shall make no one religion the state religion."
quote:
Even if Bush excluded all but Christian celebrations from the White House, it would not rise to the level of establishment of religion.
Nor would the government establish a religion is Bush included all religious celebrations.
quote:
Indeed, even those godless criminals who control the Supreme Court don't go as far as you in saying that Bush has an obligation to celebrate or promote pagan religions.
Since there is freedom of religion, and since the state cannot make a law making any one religion the state religion, it is consitutional to celebrate all of the religions, instead of just one.
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
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Trafield
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quote:
From all the post I have read so far it looks like instead of putting your eyes on God you are putting it in the President, if you believed any of what he is saying concerning his faith let be; if you don’t like what he is doing move on it is not in his power to cause any changes that have not been establish already by GOD!
Mac, I understand what you are saying:
1 Timothy 2:1-8
1First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,
2for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.
7For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
8Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension.
However, we are called to be good ministers of Jesus Christ:
1 Timothy 4:1-16
1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
2by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,
3men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
4For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;
5for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.
6In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following.
7But have nothing to do with worldly fables fit only for old women. On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness;
8for bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.
9It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance.
10For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
11Prescribe and teach these things.
12Let no one look down on your youthfulness, but rather in speech, conduct, love, faith and purity, show yourself an example of those who believe.
13Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching.
14Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery.
15Take pains with these things; be absorbed in them, so that your progress will be evident to all.
16Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.
2 Timothy 4:1-8
1I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:
2preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
5But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
6For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.
7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith;
8in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.
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Miguel
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From all the post I have read so far it looks like instead of putting your eyes on God you are putting it in the President, if you believed any of what he is saying concerning his faith let be; if you don’t like what he is doing move on it is not in his power to cause any changes that have not been establish already by GOD!
Just look at him as a man that have done a well job in the white house like no other and keep your hope on God and not a sinner like us…. The bashing of words will come for the next President whether he is a Christian or not.
P.S
My comments are in general and are not to be address to no one in particular.
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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wparr
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As a "christian" Bush is a sick clown. He celabrates ramadan in the White house, reads from the koran that "alah is god". He claims Islam and Christians worship the same God. He spends more time defending the muslim faith than the 10 commandments. ![[crying]](graemlins/crying.gif) At the christmass tree lighting celebration at the white house not one reference was made to Jesus, not even in the prayers, is our "christian president ashamed of Jesus
I would rather have a heathen for President than someone who claims the name of "Christian" and denies Christ left and right. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
He needs our prayers soooo much
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BORN AGAIN
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Bush is in a difficult position because he has sworn to uphold the Constitution, which, among other things, says that (in my paraphrase), "the goverment shall make no one religion the state religion."
As a result, all religions in the USA have equal access to do a ceremony in the White House. The LORD probably sent Bush to Hawaii just in time, so Karl Rove had to do it.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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becauseHElives
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quote:
Unbelievable! How can one claim Christ and then bow down before Idols?
When you believe what people who belong to the "Masonic Lodge" "Illuminati" and such believe it is easy to bow down before Idols.
They believe all faiths are equal and therefore can knell together, for to them all paths lead to "God".
Manly P. Hall, arguably the most renowned Masonic scholar of this past century, wrote,
The true Mason is not creed-bound. He realizes with the divine illumination of his lodge that as a Mason his religion must be universal: Christ, Buddha or Mohammed, the name means little, for he recognizes only the light and not the bearer. He worships at every shrine, bows before every altar, whether in temple, mosque or cathedral, realizing with his truer understanding the oneness of all spiritual truth. (The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, p. 65)
Manly P. Hall -
THE HONORED MASONIC AUTHOR and 33rd degree Mason
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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SoftTouch
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If you ask me, these revelations of Mr. Bush's "religious" activities are the real "Shock and Awe" campaign
Unbelievable! How can one claim Christ and then bow down before Idols? ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Trafield
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quote:
Acts 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
The Athenians worshipped all kinds of false Gods and the UNKNOWN god was simply a way of "covering their bases" and making sure they did not miss a god to be worshipped. Paul used this knowledge as a way to speak in their terms and to show them the errors of their ways. He was not advocating the association of false gods with the One, True God. If you associate with pagan practices without proclaiming the Truth of the One and Only, then you are bonding with unbelievers in their pagan ways which is forbidden by God's Word.
He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18
14Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
15Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?
16Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said,
“I will dwell in them and walk among them;
And I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
17“Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate,” says the Lord.
“And do not touch what is unclean;
And I will welcome you.
18“And I will be a father to you,
And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,”
Says the Lord Almighty.
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Miguel
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quote:
"American Christians were both grieved and shocked when President Bush, professing Christian, went to a Mosque and joined in prayer with the Muslims to the “Universal God.” President Bush evidently assumes that all religions worship the same “Universal God” under different names ... President Bush and his wife have now managed to alienate the Japanese and Korean Christian communities by going to a Shinto shrine and worshipping the demon spirit in the shrine. They both bowed to the demon and clapped their hands to awaken him. Then they signed the book of those who have worshipped the demon spirit who inhabits the Shrine ... Japanese Christian leaders (see email at bottom of the page) confirm that the Bushes engaged in pagan worship and not just a show of respect."
Acts 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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Miguel
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quote:
Can you imagine this blasphemy? A "christian" President actually approved of a pagan ceremony in the White House intended to invoke the blessings of a Hindu god and goddess! Further, he apologized for not being there in person! Dr. Agrawal was right: Bush did open a door when he approved of this ceremony, but it was the door creaky open to a formerly forbidden practice in formerly christian America! A demonic door just opened in the White House!
This brings to mind Aaron and Salomon and yet God was with them, the White House is not a temple where God lives but our bodies.
Glory to God in the highest for His perfect will have been established.
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
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Trafield
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A commentary from The Cutting Edge:
http://cuttingedge.org/newsletters/
President Bush continues to promote pagan religions. Causing dismay once again amongst his Christian apologists, President Bush hosted a Hindu celebration within the White House. Listen:
NEWS BRIEF: "A Historic moment at The White House: Association of Indians in America News Release on the occasion of the festival of Diwali at the White House", Khazana, October 23, 2003, Carried In Daily News Updates 12/5. http://www.khazana.com
"Today marked an historic time for Hindus in the United States as well as around the world. The White House celebrated its first ever Diwali event ... In an ceremony rich with tradition, a 'dipak' (lamp) was lighted by Mr. Karl Rove, Special Advisor to President George W. Bush, in front of the Lord Ganesha and Goddess Laxmi to invoke their blessings during this age-old Festival of Lights celebration."
While Bush was in Pearl Harbor at this time, Rove left no doubt that the president approved of this religious ceremony when he stated: "I just spoke with the President who called from Pearl Harbor; he sends his Diwali greetings to you and to the Hindu community worldwide.' He added, 'The President would have been here today, had it not been for his trip to Asia and Australia'."
The leaders of Indian Hinduism were understandably ecstatic:
""There were at least two very significant items; the event was held at The White House within six weeks of the request to the President and representatives from all major Indian organizations were present at the event including Muslims, Sikhs, Jains and Christians ... "President Bush deserves our sincere ´gratitude´ for creating history by opening the door of The White House for a Hindu ceremony..." [Dr. Piyush C. Agrawal, National President of the Association of Indians in America]
Can you imagine this blasphemy? A "christian" President actually approved of a pagan ceremony in the White House intended to invoke the blessings of a Hindu god and goddess! Further, he apologized for not being there in person! Dr. Agrawal was right: Bush did open a door when he approved of this ceremony, but it was the door creaky open to a formerly forbidden practice in formerly christian America! A demonic door just opened in the White House!
What affront this is to a holy, pure Jesus Christ Who warned emphatically:
"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." [John 14:6]
"Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." [Rev 18:4]
The Apostle John, writing under the power of the Holy Spirit, took matters a bit further than just separating from unbelievers and their deeds. Listen:
"If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." [2 John 1:10-11]
Thus, we are not to give any validity or encouragement to unbelievers, nor are we even to wish them well, for that would make us a "partaker of his evil deeds." Thus, when Bush approved of this pagan religious service, he became a partaker of the Hindu rites, soiling Jesus' in the process. In last week's newsletter, we noted that Bush apologist, the President of the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Commission, attempted to downplay the significance of Bush's declaration that Islam and Christianity worshipped the same god, by stating, that Bush "is Commander-in-Chief, not theologian-in-chief".
How would he defend this Hindu religious rite within the White House? At this point, we are reminded of a similar incident in Japan recently:
NEWS BRIEF: "President Bush and Mrs. Bush worship at Shinto Shrine", by Dr. Morey author of the Islamic Invasion, http://www.cephasministry.com/nwo_bush_goes_to_shinto_worship.html
"American Christians were both grieved and shocked when President Bush, professing Christian, went to a Mosque and joined in prayer with the Muslims to the “Universal God.” President Bush evidently assumes that all religions worship the same “Universal God” under different names ... President Bush and his wife have now managed to alienate the Japanese and Korean Christian communities by going to a Shinto shrine and worshipping the demon spirit in the shrine. They both bowed to the demon and clapped their hands to awaken him. Then they signed the book of those who have worshipped the demon spirit who inhabits the Shrine ... Japanese Christian leaders (see email at bottom of the page) confirm that the Bushes engaged in pagan worship and not just a show of respect."
Thus, we shall have to add these two incidents of President Bush engaging in or promoting evil pagan religions to our table listing his "Bad Fruits vs Good Fruits".
Genuine Christian, when oh when are you going to wake up from your spiritual stupor, realizing that the terribly evil fruits perpetrated by President Bush add up to the firm conclusion that he cannot actually be a genuine Christian?
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