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Topic: The New Age "Messiah"
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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
Paula says quote:
Although the possibility still exists that the Maitreya may be a hoaxster of sorts, given his ability to self-illumine and telecommunicate
Who says he has these abilities, please?
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
Hi Born Again (me too! ![[Wink]](wink.gif) ) Have you read the article I pointed out by Eastwood who witnessed some of these things for himself? Check it out at: http://home.sprynet.com/~eastwood01/hotlanta.htm
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Paula
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Member # 551
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
Paula says quote:
Although the possibility still exists that the Maitreya may be a hoaxster of sorts, given his ability to self-illumine and telecommunicate
Who says he has these abilities, please?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
Maitreya's representative, Benjamin Creme, is the one who has made claims about Mitreya's supernatural abilities. Creme himself has stated that he communicates telepathically with the Mitreya all the time. Of course, this whole thing could all be one-big money making scam to capitalize on vulnerable New Agers and others as well, but that's just speculation on my part. But it's good to know about these things anyway.
Forewarned is forearmed. ![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif) ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
Posts: 90 | From: Arizona | Registered: Oct 2002
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BORN AGAIN
unregistered
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posted
Paula says quote:
Although the possibility still exists that the Maitreya may be a hoaxster of sorts, given his ability to self-illumine and telecommunicate
Who says he has these abilities, please?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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Paula
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Member # 551
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
The un-nerving thing about this “spirit” is that it is able to produce “Signs and Wonders” as attested to by the following article written by one of our Brothers who secretely attended a lecture (in disguise) to get the low down. The article is dated, these things are apparently still happening (according to Share International, the Official website for this Thing). Read the article… it will give you chills! Here's the link: http://home.sprynet.com/~eastwood01/hotlanta.htm
"What I Saw in Atlanta - "Excuse me, but... is that man glowing?" Eastwood's Journey to * Benjamin Creme's Lecture * Atlanta, Georgia, November 18, 1997"
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Eastwood is a Brother in the Lord who has a website dedicated to watching for things that align with prophecy of the End Times.
http://home.sprynet.com/~eastwood01/nitty.htm
Thanks for sharing your background work with us, Soft Touch. The links you provided make for some very fascinating reading, and I'll pass the info along to friends.
My primary reason for not staying tuned to the interview with Benjamin Creme that night he was on the Art Bell program was because I thought there was a chance that he himself could possibly be the Anti-Christ and was looking for a way to deceive us by way of mind control, and that's why I immediately changed the station.
The Left Behind series has a volume entitled "Nicolai", in which the AC is described as having the powers of telepathy and self-illumination. Although the possibility still exists that the Maitreya may be a hoaxster of sorts, given his ability to self-illumine and telecommunicate, Christian believers need to be more discerning and watchful than ever before for the signs and wonders of false prophets.
Posts: 90 | From: Arizona | Registered: Oct 2002
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BORN AGAIN
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posted
But I meant "can" and "cannot". ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Daniel S
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Member # 1714
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posted
BA, Ambariel,
Picking up only on this last part of the discussion, and focusing in on BA's response to Ambariel's post:
quote:
One more thing: I am not comfortable with assuming God "cannot" do anything due to His nature or His laws: He is outside the universe and thus, not bound to its laws.
Perhaps the discord is in the word "can", or rather, "cannot". Would it not be more appropriate to say that God "will" or "will not" do some particular thing (or that scripture indicates He "will" or "will not" do a particular thing) rather than He "can" or "cannot"? After all, God is omnipotent - God "can" (is able to) do anything God wills to do. Right?
Dan S
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The Lord bless you indeed.
http://www.First-EMC.org (shameless self promotion)
Posts: 436 | From: on the Ohio River | Registered: Jun 2003
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BORN AGAIN
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posted
Ambariel says quote:
One more thing: I am not comfortable with assuming God "cannot" do anything due to His nature or His laws: He is outside the universe and thus, not bound to its laws.
By creating the universe, God did limit Himself. By putting His Spirit in man, God did limit Himself.
That is, if He wants to preserve the universe, He cannot get too close to it, because the universe will burn up. If I built a house of playing-cards, I have full power over the house of cards, but if I want to preserve the house of cards, I cannot run rough-shod over it.
Likewise, when God put His Spirit inside of sinful man, He limited Himself as to how His Word could come out of man--it now might come out defiled. God can destroy man, but if He wants to keep man, He cannot get too close to man:
Exodus 33
20 And He said, You cannot not see My face: for there shall no man see Me, and live.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
I wouldn't do that. Besides, the site says that the leadership in that church changed and the supposed manifestations stopped when that occurred. Personally, I don't want to be any where near anything like that... it gives me the creeps! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Ambariel
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Member # 2345
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posted
next time I'm in Knoxville I should look for this church.
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Namárië! Nai hiruvalyë Valimar.
Posts: 20 | From: Nashville | Registered: Nov 2003
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BORN AGAIN
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SoftTouch says, among other things quote:
Benjamin Crème is the current “mouthpiece” for this entity, but Crème is very old and I’m certain that this entity will choose another spokesman” who is younger and more “Charismatic” in the near future. I believe Crème is in his 80’s(?)
As I said earlier in this Topic, Benjamin Crème was already the Maitreya's spokesperson in the 1960s, and even then the Maitreya was still "hidden" and "had not shown yet".
If Crème is now old, the Maitreya is also very old and is still "hidden" and still "has not shown himself".
I don't think the Maitreya is "hidden" because "his time has not yet arrived" but rather because "he is not", to use a KJV Bible phrase.
Instead, this Maitreya stuff is very typical of so-called New Age Ascended Masters and supposed "secrets" and "mysteries", blah, blah, blah. But let's not actually show the man.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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SoftTouch
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A little more info on this Maitreya...
I thought folks might be interested in seeing the connection between Share International (the official website for this thing called Maitreya) and the UN. I got this information from Eastwood’s site at: http://home.sprynet.com/~eastwood01/unproof.htm
Relationship of Share International to the United Nations
Share International Foundation is a member of the NGO (non-governmental organization) community at the United Nations. Currently, there are over 1,500 organizations with NGO status, which is granted to organizations that are seen to have goals broadly commensurate with the UN's own inclusive and humanitarian agenda. These organizations have agreed to work co-operatively with the UN Department of Public Information to disseminate information about UN programmes and resolutions to their respective members, communities, news media, and outreach audiences. The UN does not provide funding to NGOs.
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‘IF’ this entity is indeed the AC (which has not been revealed yet, but according to his resume’ it’s looking likely!) then this information bears watching. Benjamin Crème is the current “mouthpiece” for this entity, but Crème is very old and I’m certain that this entity will choose another spokesman” who is younger and more “Charismatic” in the near future. I believe Crème is in his 80’s(?) Seeing that there are already ties with the UN it’s not stretch to think “it” will choose someone from that organization who is in a position of authority (perhaps even the next Secretary General?) But this remains to be seen… However, to this day Share International and Benjamin Crème are giving lectures all over the world trying to prepare humanity for the coming of this entity called Maitreya (The supposed “world teacher”).
The following is from the Share Internationals Webpage:
Upcoming events
Lectures, tours and interviews with Benjamin Creme
UNITED KINGDOM
LONDON:
Lectures:
Thursday 6 November, Tuesday 2 December and 6 January 2004
7-9.30 pm; doors open 6.30.
Admission free
(I deleted the rest of the info... I only wanted to show this entity is still in full operation of it’s deception)
Transmission Meditation Workshop:
Saturday 24 January 2004, (I deleted the rest of the information…)
There are some very WEIRD pictures of Crème on this website when he’s supposedly being “overshadowed” by this entity… the images look like you’re watching someone walking in a strobe light. Very Strange!
Here is a list of the Un-Godly signs and wonders performed by this entity:
1. Handprints mysteriously appearing on peoples bathroom mirrors. The image is 3-D and they try to say it’s like the Shroud of Turin… Experts have examined these images and say they are authentic (not a trick of some sort).
2. Crosses of light (Just a couple of examples from the SI website)
Before 1988, no one had heard of them. Today, they dazzle people on every continent: crosses of light suddenly appearing in windows. Even science has taken an interest. In a tiny church in Knoxville, Tennessee, they seemed to be 30 or 40 feet high. Weeks before the first one appeared, Benjamin Creme announced that Maitreya was going to amaze the world through a highly unusual light phenomenon.
A Baptist Church in Tennessee:
I can’t get the hair on the back of my neck to do anything but stick straight out these days. The crosses are indeed in the windows at the Copper Ridge Baptist Church. That is a fact. It doesn’t matter if you believe it or not...," wrote columnist Bob Hurley of The Greenville (Tennessee) Sun, reporting on the gigantic crosses of light which had appeared in Knoxville, Tennessee in and outside the tiny church of Reverend Joe Bullard.
It all started one evening in early November 1995, when Joe and his wife Mildred noticed a radiant white light seeming to surround the entire building. A couple of days later, on 8 November, Joe Bullard was addressing his congregation. While he stood talking, a bright white light appeared on one side of the church. On further inspection the light was found to be in the shape of a large cross. Bullard's reaction, and that of the thousands of people who later came to see the crosses, was "unbelievable!"
Reaching a height of some 40 feet, the crosses could be seen in all the church windows. Children and adults alike were glowing with joy at the phenomena they experienced there.
Scores of people told Reverend Bullard they were being healed emotionally, spiritually and, sometimes, physically when they saw the crosses. A deliriously happy Joan Anderson told the Kokomo Perspective newspaper in October 1996 that she had an inoperable brain tumor, went to Knoxville more or less by chance, knew nothing of the supposed healings, and realized the following day that her headache had gone -- and, the doctors soon discovered, so had the tumor.
On Easter Sunday 1991, a picture was taken of the Philippine piece of glass containing a cross of light. When the negative was developed, the image of a hand showed up in the glass.
(There are pictures of these phenomenon on the SI website but I will not put a link in here to that site… it’s bad enough that I’m going there to find this information!)
3. Circles of light
Share International magazine receives large numbers of photographs from around the world showing ‘circles of light’ which suddenly appear on buildings, pavements and other surfaces reflected when the sun shines, and which often appear and disappear over a period of days and weeks.
Benjamin Creme’s Master confirms these light miracles are another sign of Maitreya’s presence in the world.
4. Magnetized Healing Waters
Since his appearance in Nairobi, Maitreya has re-enacted this event by suddenly showing up in the midst of large audiences, usually groups of fundamentalists. In advance, Maitreya often energizes water sources in the vicinity of the spots in which he is about to appear. So far, healing waters have been discovered in Mexico, Germany, China and India.
5. Miraculous Appearances
Since his sudden appearance 'out of the blue' in Nairobi, Kenya, on 11 June 1988, Maitreya has made many more miraculous appearances.
On 11 June 1988, a man suddenly appeared before a vast crowd in Nairobi, Kenya, gathered to witness healing prayers. Instantly recognizing the tall, white-robed figure as "Jesus Christ," the crowds fell down overcome with emotion. The editor of the Swahili edition of the Kenya Times, veteran journalist Job Mutungi, witnessed the event and took some pictures. (I will not reprint the article here… I think this speaks for its self ![[Frown]](frown.gif) )
From 1988 to 2002 the site says he’s made these ‘sudden appearances’ 233 times in countries all over the world. Supposedly he showed up in Washington DC on March 24, 1996. I’m glad I missed it!!!!
These signs and wonders have gone through a series of authenticity testing by various experts in each field and have passed the test. The guy who call’s himself “Eastwood” (one of our Brothers in Messiah) has examined one of the crosses of light for himself. He is very familiar with trick photography and special effects and says there is no trick to this… it’s real. This can only be a supernatural occurrence.. I know it is NOT of God Almighty! That only leaves one other Entity… ![[mad2]](graemlins/mad2.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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SoftTouch
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ambariel:
SoftTouch, you rock. I think I could learn from you.
Anyone who tells me to close the Bible in favor of the wisdom of Man is preaching a message I cannot support, simply put. All the wisdom we need to know is within its pages.
Something I find very frustrating is that people can say they believe in God, but aren't willing to grant Him godly powers.
It's this simple: If God can create the Universe, He can write a Book (the Bible), and protect its message down through the ages. I don't see how you can claim to be a Christian and not cling on every Word. It's all we have, and it's all we need.
Thank you for your kinds words, but you'd be well advised to stick to learning from the Bible and Jesus. I tend to wander off sometimes ![[Confused]](confused.gif) But He is faithful and always pulls me back to Him! ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
I totally agree with what you've said in your last statement!!! You Rock too my Sister! ![[wiggle7]](graemlins/wiggle7.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Ambariel
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posted
SoftTouch, you rock. I think I could learn from you.
Anyone who tells me to close the Bible in favor of the wisdom of Man is preaching a message I cannot support, simply put. All the wisdom we need to know is within its pages.
Something I find very frustrating is that people can say they believe in God, but aren't willing to grant Him godly powers.
It's this simple: If God can create the Universe, He can write a Book (the Bible), and protect its message down through the ages. I don't see how you can claim to be a Christian and not cling on every Word. It's all we have, and it's all we need.
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Namárië! Nai hiruvalyë Valimar.
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SoftTouch
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Here are some “blurbs” from various articles found on the Deceptions In The Church website. I urge anyone who has been following these false teachers to please investigate these articles, read the whole article(s) for yourself (and many others found there) to see the truth about their false teachings.
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/false.html
Benny Hinn and Necromancy(Talking to the Dead)
The Scriptures are equally definite in stating that man has no contact with departed spirits or they with us, e.g., Job 14, 2, Ecc. 9, 5, also Luke 16, 26. Neither are "spirit guides" offered to the Christian-"There is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus (I Tim. 2, 5-6). Anybody else acting as a "go-between" between God and man would not only be superfluous but blasphemous
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/hagin.html
Kenneth Hagin: Here is a further statement of the above words by Mr Hagin, "Every man who has been born again is an incarnation and Christianity is a miracle. The believer is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth."(Christianity In Crisis, Hank Hanegraaff, p. 175, taken from The Incarnation, Kenneth Hagin, p. 12).
Is a Bible quote really necessary to show how this is false?
Kenneth Hagin: "If You Will Learn To Follow That Inward Witness I Will Make You Rich."
This statement that Hagin says came from God only serves to strengthen the context of this entire article. He is talking about a kind of human that the Bible knows nothing about, a paranormal human. Look at the broader picture in his statements. "Then the Lord said this to me [in a vision in 1959], which is not just for my benefit, but for yours. ‘If you will learn to follow that inward witness I will make you rich. I will guide you in all the affairs of life, financial as well as spiritual’ . . . I have followed that inward witness and He has done just what He said He would. He has made me rich (p. 33) . . . The inward man, who is a spirit man, has a voice--just as the outward man has a voice. We call this voice conscience. We call this voice the still small voice. Your spirit has a voice. Your spirit will speak to you (p. 47) . . . [Y]our conscience is the voice of your spirit (p. 49)." (Metaphysical Elements In The Faith Movement, Compiled by Leon D. Stump, p.55, taken from How To Be Led By The Holy Spirit, Kenneth Hagin.)
Kenneth Hagin And The Spirit Of The Serpent
The final chapter of Mr. Hagin is being written even as I write this article. Our video by this title tells the whole truth. The serpent spirit has grown in his teaching and methods until I believe the real source is being made manifest. He just conducted a Kenneth Hagin Holy Ghost meeting in Chesterfield, MO. The meeting was held from October 12th to October 24th. On the third night he began to manifest this spirit with his tongue sticking out and wiggling like a serpent’s tongue. He also began to hiss. On Thursday night, as he began to hiss, many of the people began to slither down out of their seats feet first. Some of the people would hiss back at him. The emotional response of the audience is indescribable. Kenneth Hagin and many of the people became insanely "drunk."
On the last night the demonstration became extremely bizarre as he began to bless the people for the closing. Three men could not hold him up because of his drunken state. He declared that this was the first full demonstration of this new anointing he said God had promised. Kenneth Copeland was present and got right in the middle of this final insanity. I believe this entire meeting reflected the judgment of God on this ministry and its supporters. Hissing is a scorn and rebuke. Isaiah said, "Therefore is the anger of the LORD kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand . . . And he will lift up an ensign to the nations from far, and will hiss unto them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly." "Their roaring [shall be] like a lion, they shall roar like young lions . . ." "And in that day they shall roar against them like the roaring of the sea: and if [one] look unto the land, behold darkness [and] sorrow, and the light is darkened in the heavens thereof." (Isaiah 5:25-26, 29, 30).
http://www.banner.org.uk/wof/mytest.html
Was Kenneth Copeland A False Prophet? by Tricia Tillin, 1998
In an article entitled "My Word Of Faith Testimony" Tricia Tillin gives documented facts that Kenneth Copeland gave a false prophesy in Britain in June 1983.
WAS COPELAND A FALSE PROPHET?
On a high after the Conferences, we were not in a mood to be brought down to earth. But there were those who tried to turn our heads away from our beloved Copelands, and to point out some problems.
One troubling thing was a prophecy that Ken Copeland had given at the 1983 Full Gospel Businessmen's National Convention in Birmingham, UK. I had a printed copy of this, and it promised some specific things about Britain.
The Prophecy, given in June 1983, said that our time and our hour had come, and the visitation of the Lord had come to England. It said the revival had come, and would grow. It promised "tens of thousands" of conversions and a mighty flood of the power of the Spirit from coast to coast. AND HE PROMISED THIS BY MID 1983.
He prophesied that, by September 1983, the amount of people in the conference hall would have doubled, and by October it would have tripled. Then followed promises that we are now familiar with, about people falling at our feet in supermarkets, and our faces shining with the glory and the whole nation coming under conviction - and so on.
Even I had to admit he'd been wrong. At the Conference I'd just attended there were probably FEWER attending, not MORE. The great revival had clearly not happened, and the doubling and tripling of numbers at the Copeland meetings had also not occurred. How could I explain this? Was Copeland a false prophet?
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/kcp.html
Kansas City prophets - Vineyard churches - Metro Vineyard Fellowship
(This is where the Toronto Blessing and Pensacola Outpouring originated from)
….Some of the main prophets and/or leaders in the movement included Paul Cain, Mike Bickle, Bob Jones, Rick Joyner, John Paul Jackson, Francis Frangipane, and others. Bob Jones (no relation to Bob Jones of Bob Jones University in South Carolina) was the visionary of the bunch. He was said to have been especially anointed with supernatural visions from the Lord and a prophetic gift. However, he was quoted as saying that the general level of prophetic revelation in the movement's "prophets" had an accuracy level of about 65 percent. Some prophets were as low as 10 percent accurate, he said, with some of the "most mature" prophets having a rating "approaching 85 percent to 95 percent. "25
Similarly, the lack of accuracy in speaking for God didn't bother Wimber, either. Wimber soon became close to Cain and Bickle, and when the Kansas City Fellowship came under fire, Wimber saved them from even more criticism by absorbing the Kansas City Fellowship under the new name of the Metro Vineyard Fellowship. "Prophecy's first expressions will likely be infantile," wrote Wimber in the Vineyard's fall 1989 Equipping the Saints magazine that was devoted to embracing the prophetic movement. "Babies are messy and they make messes ."26….
Jer 23:16-18 (NIV) This is what the Lord Almighty says: "Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord. They keep saying to those who despise me, 'The Lord says: You will have peace.' And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts they say, 'No harm will come to you.' But which of them has stood in the council of the Lord to see or to hear his word? Who has listened and heard his word?"
Jer 14:14 (NIV) "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries, and the delusion of their own minds."
Mat 7:15, 20-23 (NIV) "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves... Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them... Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophecy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evil doers!'"
2 Cor 11:13-15 (Phi) "God's messengers?" They are counterfeits of the real thing, dishonest practitioners masquerading as the messengers of Christ. Nor do their tactics surprise me when I consider how Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is only to be expected that his agents shall have the appearance of ministers of righteousness--but they will get what they deserve in the end.
1 Tim 4:1-2 (Phi) God's spirit specificaly tells us that in later days there will be men who abandon the true faith and allow themselves to be spiritually seduced by teachings of demons, teachings given by men who are lying hypocrites, whose consciences are as dead as seared flesh.
1 Jn 2:20-26 (Phi) God has given you all a certain amount of spiritual insight, and indeed I have not written this warning as if I were writing to men who don't know what error is. I write because your eyes are clear enough to discern a lie when you come across it... For yourselves keep faithful to what you heard at the beginning. I had to write to you about these men who try to lead you astray.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Thunderz7
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Why is it so easy for us to brand something as heresy because it is something we have not heard?
Someone has a different idea/belief about the WORD, and because he's not like us, he must be a heretic.
We caution others to pray and study about these things before following them,
but we don't pray and study about the traditions of man, traditional mainstream doctrine, and false denomonitational teachings we sit under every week.
We will close the Bible, saying it doesn't say what these others claim it says,
and instead of proving our point from the Bible we just closed,
we open up a book of "church discipline" and quote years of man made doctrine and tradition to prove our points.
If these others are the heretics and we are not also,
why are the gates of hell prevaling against our mainline denominations?
Why are we not doing the things Yeshua /Jesus did, and greater things?
Why is Christ not being formed in us?
Why are we not rising to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ, and becoming manifested sons of GOD?
Why are we not in the due order of the Tabernacle of David?
I see no room for our mainline denominations to brand anyone "heretic",
while still teaching generations of man made doctrine and lies.
The beam is in our own eye, but it's been there so long we think its natural, and the only "pain" will come when it is removed.
But we don't want that "pain", we don't want to see clearly,
because someone else may have been right, while we were wrong!
T7
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HuggyBear
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SoftTouch,
Thank you for the URL's and the info on Maitreya. Your posts have brought truth out in the open about this New Age Messiah.
Say your prayers bravely before you visit the sites, there is some real spiritual warfare going on.
Huggy
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(1Corinthians 13:13) Right now three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.
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Ambariel
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Member # 2345
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posted
One more thing: I am not comfortable with assuming God "cannot" do anything due to His nature or His laws: He is outside the universe and thus, not bound to its laws. Here logic fails, because He is beyond logic. One cannot apply logic (which is simply a human need for order) to that which is Divine.
Furthermore, simply because God chooses not to do something, does not mean he is incapable of doing it.
Lastly, nobody knows what happened between Jesus' death and His Resurrection. To portray Jesus as being "tortured in hell", or "becoming of same nature as satan", etc, is a mighty big leap - God forgive me, but this sounds like utter nonsense. My radar detects a deliberate attempt on many fronts to deny Christ's perfection and holiness. I am not impressed by thousands of words whose result is that Jesus is not the perfect, holy Messiah I was taught that He is, but one that is somehow coeval with Satan in order to defeat Satan, etc.
I have to read all this stuff very closely. I could be speaking out of turn. It's late and I'm a bit sleepy. But many things in this thread had me slack jawed in astonishment that people would even say such things about the Messiah.
I have to trust my gut instincts. They've not failed me yet.
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Namárië! Nai hiruvalyë Valimar.
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Ambariel
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There is a lot to read here, and I haven't finished yet, but I feel compelled to say that I have always had a gut feeling that there was something slimy about Benny Hinn. I could be wrong but that's just the way he strikes me.
Seeing these quotes about "God being a failure", and "Jesus being (flawed, sinful, changed, imperfect, etc)" gives me a very strong gut reaction that the message is unwholesome.
I may be speaking out of turn here because I have not read everything in this thread: there's quite a bit to digest.
But heresy is something that I am very uncomfortable with. I have the gut feeling, again, that Christ's original visit here was all the reform that God intended.
It's worth noting that several evangelical leaders whose fruit told us who they were (like David Koresh) had a delusion that 1)they were Jesus returned and that 2)Jesus was reborn to experience sin unlike his original incarnation. But my common sense tells me these people are mentally ill, and they are rationalizing their own sinful lives and applying that as a type of aggression transference onto the persona of Jesus (as themselves), which could only be true if their sins were mitigated by a sinful Jesus.
I hope that made sense. I am quite overwhelmed by what I've read, and need to finish, but wanted to post this thought before it evaporated in favor of yet more questions or observations.
Lastly, it may have already been said here, but my understanding was that God had to remove himself from Jesus in order to judge him. So the "forsaking" was a temporary necessity that allowed God to Judge Christ and in so doing, allow this supreme sacrifice to be made, and allow His need for justice (which I believe overrides everything) to be paid for in blood - Jesus' blood. But this could only be done if God allowed Christ to take upon Himself all the sin of the world, and thus be the object of Judgement and the vessel by which Sin could be paid for by the spilling of blood, because the wages of Sin are death, which means shedding of blood necessarily.
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Namárië! Nai hiruvalyë Valimar.
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barrykind
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Sorry back to the original statement about the
Maitreya
i use to have a Front page news article paid for by Benjamin Crimm (spl)
about the Maitreya
How he had the answers for the world, etc etc
Seems like it was about 1987 or so..
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
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barrykind
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i profess absolutely that i am no scholar..
Given:
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i have always thought that when Yahshua [Jesus] was taking on the sins of the world , during that greivious time on the cross where He spoke those words "Why have thou forsaken Me", that God cannot look upon sin, turned His face from Yahshua {Jesus} and that is what Our Lord felt.
The Father looking away from the sin and Yahshua {Jesus} felt that forsaking..
What think YE?
Just what i always believed..
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
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helpforhomeschoolers
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When I read the 22 Psalm, I see a word picture. David is suffering. He laments: God is far from him and he cries day and night and is not heard.
Then he turns to who God is (vs 3-5)God is Holy, his fathers trusted God and God was faithful.
Then back to himself: Not his vision of himself but the vision of those who watch his suffering and their taunts. The verses that follow tell exactly what happened on the cross. It speaks of how they Jeered Christ to come down off the cross; it speaks of their parting his garments and casting lots; it speaks to the physical conditions that happen in crucification 600 years before Christ was nailed to the cross and even before death by crucification was know of or practiced.
Then it turns again to a prayer; Deliver me OLord, my strength and my hope.
And then again it turns to speak of the Triumph of God!
The meek shall eat and be satisfied; the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord; all that go down to the dust shall bow before him!
I believe that Pastor Mike is correct in saying that Jesus never spoke scripture without purpose.
I believe that indeed Christ spoke this scripture with purpose.
All that watched as he hung on this cross believed that God had forsaken him. Even the disciples that had followed him for the past three years must have wondered what was happening. How could it be that he would die this way?
I believe he spoke this scripture to draw attention to this scripture because it tells the WHOLE picture. Yes, there is suffering. Yes it looks as though God has forsaken, but GOD TRIUMPHS! Read if you will the REST of the STORY!
That is the message Christ was giving the world from the cross. Read the rest of the Story.
In three days they would see the rest of the story.
See I think that to forsake something or someone is something God cant do. God who is perfect and Holy cannot forsake. How can a perfect and Holy God let someone down. I believe that this is why the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world. If God is our hope and our strength our redeemer; then forsaking us would be failure to be what God is and that would be less than Holy, less than merciful, less that full of grace.
So, for me. I can not believe that Jesus spoke those words to say that HE was forsaken; but I believe that he spoke the words of David in the 22 Psalm to draw attention to what was written in the scripture that those who looked on and believed that he was forsaken would see the rest of the story.
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BORN AGAIN
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helpforhomeschoolers says quote:
But, let me ask you this.
Was Jesus forsaken by the Father?
I think he was not. He did not suffer coruption nor was he left in hell.
He was suffering beyond our ability to understand. But he was not forsaken.
So if he were not forsaken then for him to say..
"My God My God .Why have you forsaken me?"
Forsaken is forsaken. If He said He was forsaken on the cross, He was forsaken. And indeed He should be, because He had to carry our sins to the cross.
However, He knew the promise of God, that God would not leave His body in Sheol, and so He could say:
Hebrews 12
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
On the other hand, the Word additionally says that while He was in death, he preached to the spirits in prison, so perhaps by then God was with Him again and He was only forsaken on the cross:
1 Peter 3
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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Pastor Mike
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I have three things to input into this discussion and then I am going to quit this thread.
1) I do not believe that Jesus recited the first verse of Psalm 22 just to do that. Whenever Jesus used Scripture, it was for a reason. I would dare say that if you looked through the instances of Jesus quoting Scripture, they were all used for a purpose.
2) Jesus always acted in faith and in trust toward His Father for as Hebrews 11:6 tells us, without faith it is impossible to please God--and God was well pleased with His Son.
3) The Lord reminded me of one thing this morning. Jesus was undergoing a new experience on the cross. I don't mean the physical suffering and death. I mean that for the very first time he was feeling the burden of the pain and torment that all of us can go through when we are under a burden of sin. I personally have had the experience of having a sin hang over my head for a period of time and when that burden is lifted through repentance, it is such a relief. I can imagine that is the type of relief David felt when he knew that the penalty for his sin of murder was lifted after his son died. But in the case of Jesus on the cross, we have to magnify that burden enormously because He carried the burden of all our sins. He also could not confess His sin for He had committed no sin. No wonder He felt that He was foresaken by God. But feelings have nothing to do with faith, for He knew that even though He was feeling oppressed by such a burden of sin, His Father was going to see Him through it so that His burden would be lifted after His death. Jesus continued to have perfect faith despite our burden of sins weighing Him down to such an enormous extent. Amen.
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Homebound
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SoftTouch -- thanks for the link to the Eastwood site. Some very interesting reading there!
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Hi BA & Pastor Mike:
Yes, the 22 Psalm is a prophetic account of Christ's crucifiction written some 600 years before his death and indeed he was fulfilling it on the cross.
But this Psalm written by David is a song not of a forsaken man, but a suffering man in dispair but not without hope. David hoped for God's deliverance in this Psalm.
As for Jesus not being able to recite a Psalm because of his suffering, I cant buy that either. Jesus was and is the WORD. The word of God was part of HIM, on the temple pennical and it was part of him on the cross!
But, let me ask you this.
Was Jesus forsaken by the Father?
I think he was not. He did not suffer coruption nor was he left in hell.
He was suffering beyond our ability to understand. But he was not forsaken.
So if he were not forsaken then for him to say..
"My God My God .Why have you forsaken me?", would either be a lie; which he could not tell or it would have been a sinful lack of confidence in the work that the Father was doing and the Promises He received from the Father. And we KNOW the HE was without sin!
This is not the cry of a man who is forsaken...
9 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
Jesus suffered on the cross, but God never forsake Jesus; not on the cross or in the grave.
And Jesus did not Doubt what God had promised him; That would have been SIN!
Jesus knew what God had promised:
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
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SoftTouch
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The un-nerving thing about this “spirit” is that it is able to produce “Signs and Wonders” as attested to by the following article written by one of our Brothers who secretely attended a lecture (in disguise) to get the low down. The article is dated, these things are apparently still happening (according to Share International, the Official website for this Thing). Read the article… it will give you chills! Here's the link: http://home.sprynet.com/~eastwood01/hotlanta.htm
"What I Saw in Atlanta - "Excuse me, but... is that man glowing?" Eastwood's Journey to * Benjamin Creme's Lecture * Atlanta, Georgia, November 18, 1997"
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Eastwood is a Brother in the Lord who has a website dedicated to watching for things that align with prophecy of the End Times.
http://home.sprynet.com/~eastwood01/nitty.htm
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Paula
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With regards to Maitreya, the supposed "World Teacher," the Art Bell program did an interview several months ago with his spokesman, Benjamin Creme, which caused quite a stir. Many Christian people called the show saying Maitreya was the anti-Christ. Needless to say, I didn't stay tuned for very long after that, but here's a summary of what was said:
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2003/01/28.html
Posts: 90 | From: Arizona | Registered: Oct 2002
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BORN AGAIN
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helpforhomeschoolers, you say quote:
I do not believe that Jesus on the cross was saying that he felt forsaken by God. I believe that Jesus was reciting the 22 Psalm: read the rest of the Psalm....
I do not agree with your quoted material. By the mouth of the musician it was prophesied that the Messiah would be forsaken by God and this prophecy was fulfilled when Yeshua-Jesus was crucified and 100% forsaken by God as the world's sins were laid upon Jesus and God completely forsook Jesus, on a temporary basis.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
"Tell me, good sir, have you seen the Maitreya?"
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Pastor Mike
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Helpforhomeschoolers,
I don't agree with you that Jesus was just reciting something from the 22nd Psalm. When one is in the midst of physical anguish as Jesus was on the cross, I hardly feel that He would have on his mind to recite a portion of a psalm. This outcry may have been reflecting his physical anguish or it may have reflected more than that. Jesus was in the midst of suffering, of that there can be no doubt. There are plenty of examples cited in the gospels of small portions being fulfilled in Jesus so that this may just be one more example. Thanks
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SoftTouch
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This is just a non-post to make sure my avatar changes... it was too big ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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SoftTouch
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{{{{{{{{{Pastor Mike}}}}}}}}}}}
I just wanted to give you a brotherly hug! I'm really glad to hear that you're going to prayerfully consider these things
I've really enjoyed reading various posts of yours on here. I'm new and am still getting acquainted with the different threads. I particularly enjoyed reading your posts to Brother Jim regarding eternal life... I totally agree with you (and many others here on that issue)!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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I do not believe that Jesus on the cross was saying that he felt forsaken by God. I believe that Jesus was reciting the 22 Psalm: read the rest of the Psalm....
¶ <<To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.>>
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother’s breasts.
10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother’s belly.
11 ¶ Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21 Save me from the lion’s mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22 ¶ I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28 For the kingdom is the LORD’S: and he is the governor among the nations.
29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.
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BORN AGAIN
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Just as an aside, the Maitreya was already supposed to "be alive" in the 1960s. He is getting old while he is "about to come".
God bless, BORN AGAIN
"Tell me, good sir, have you seen the Maitreya?"
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Pastor Mike
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Dear Friends,
I want to thank you for your concern and interest. I can see very well by what you have shown me that there is room for concern. I can also see and understand on the basis of the article that Helpforhomeschoolers has included where they could possibly get such a doctrine. It gives me cause to consider it prayerfully. I know that my own denomination has always taught that when Jesus descended into hell He did so proclaiming his victory. But I can also see their point when one also considers the second death that is talked about in Revelation 2:11 and 21:14. I can't buy the idea that Jesus took on the nature of the devil, but the idea of of the travail of the soul from Isaiah 53:11 and Christ's statement asking "My God, my God, why have you foresaken me?" could indicate that there is more than I first thought. I will have to wrestle with these thoughts in prayer. Again, I say thanks for your intense concern. I have to say that Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, and James Robison have been my favorite to watch, but I have never heard them speak about this particular subject, and there have been some things that I have not accepted, although I have found many things that I have liked. Thanks again.
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TwinsGranny
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Just so you all know, I haven't posted in this thread...I haven't the desire to get into this debate at all. You all have your own opinions and I love and respect you and will continue to lift you all up in prayer....but, as I stated above, I have no desire to get into this debate.
God Bless each of you.
Twins Granny
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SoftTouch
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![[dance]](graemlins/dance1.gif) ![[hyper]](graemlins/hyper.gif) Nevermind! I got it! ![[roll on floor]](graemlins/6.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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SoftTouch
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This post is just a test to see if my avatar is working! If it's not, can you please help me figure it out Helpforhomeschoolers? Thanks!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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SoftTouch
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Well said and I do understand. What I don't understand is how one can Claim Jesus as the Risen Lord and still get decieved? Any insight on that? Thanks!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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As long as there is a Holy Spirit active in this earth, there will be! Praise God. We just need to be sure that it is HIM we seek to glorify in our pointing.
I once attened a meeting where a man was naming names; it had become for him a personal vindetta against these false teachers. His message for me was obliterated by his hate for those he spoke against.
This sends me to remember that even when Paul gave over Alexander and Hymenaeus to Satan for the false doctrines they spread, it was that they might learn not to blaspheme.
As we speak the truth against false teachers, I think we must also seek to find balance that these are people who are deceived by the enemy.
The people to whom Jesus spoke and said I know not from whence you came, are people who called him LORD LORD. There but for the grace of God go any of us.
Eve was deceived! I believe with all my heart that Adam ate, that he not be separated from EVE whom he knew God would redeem. But Eve was beguilled.
Many are today beguilled. The enemy roams about seeking whom he can destory. And just as there are those who are mislead, there are those who do great works in HIS name and yet he knows them not. They are the misleaders.
Why, because they are deceived and the most important thing that deceives them (those who call HIM Lord. Remember no one does that but by the power of the Holy Spirit)is the power of the blood and the TRUTH that we are saved BY Grace and Christ's blood atones and reconciles us to God apart from us. From outside of us. These false teaching on the part of Hagin and his followers are issues regarding the power of the blood to justify us. If Christ was a sinner. If Christ was anything but God in the flesh. The power of the blood is worthless.
What I am trying to say is this. The Kenneth Copeland of this world that claim Christ is the way the truth and the life, the crucified and risen Messiah and savior, do so by the Holy Spirit. If they also speak a false doctrine... another Gospel, then we cannot bid them Godspeed.
We must put them out of our homes; but this should never stop us from understanding that they are deceived and we must pray that they will come to know their error and repent of teaching this error to the easily deceived. We in affect must hand them over to Satan, but only that they might learn not to blaspheme.
God does not will that any should perish. Not even Kenneth Copeland.
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SoftTouch
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Helpforhomeschoolers said: "This is an issue I have struggle with myself. I see and to a point agree with Pastor Mike and Twins Granny that we spend far to much time worry and talking about what the enemy is doing and tearing down the body of Christ. What we need to be doing is studying and knowing the word of God.
However, because far too many Christians today are not doing that and do not know the word of God, they cannot discern that which is false and that which is true.
Therefore, I do not believe that we can keep silent about that which is false. But I believe that a more Christian if you will approach to dealing with this is to spend our time preaching what is true that those who are listening to every wind that blows can discern that witch is false."
These are wise words in deed. I wish I could say that I am one who knows the Word of God well enough to do this! Unfortunately, I'm still relatively young in my studies and if it wasn't for "Watchers" who warned of false teachings (that I could check out for myself) then I may have fallen victim myself. So I'm glad there are folks out there who point these things out and I hope there always will be
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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SoftTouch
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Dear Pastor Mike:
I humbly ask that you will prayerfully consider checking out these articles and then check these teachings against those of the Bible. I think you will find there is a huge gap there. I once clicked on Copeland on TV and listened for a very short while… it didn’t take very long for me to see what he was teaching isn’t Biblical. Please accept this information in the loving spirit it’s meant in. I mean no disrespect or judgements; my only goal is to point out error in teaching. There are So Many links I could provide, but I pray these will be sufficient.
In the Love and Service of Jesus our Messiah,
Debbie ![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif)
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http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/9079/wordoffaith.html
A Letter from a Concerned Pastor to all who follow Word of Faith teachers:
Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, Fred Price, T.D. Jakes, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn...
These are some of the more popular teachers today in Christian circles. Unfortunately, much of what they teach is simply in error, and the consequences to those who follow their flawed teaching can be serious.
Please understand that I have nothing personally against any of these individuals, and I in no way pass judgement on them as individuals. My concern is with the serious error that they espouse in their teaching. It is that error that I object to, call them to repent of, and warn you, the reader of.
I do not wish to imply that these teachers have nothing good to say, nor that they haven't contributed significantly to the needs of others. I also do not bring into question their salvation, nor the salvation of anyone who follows them.
One may still desire to listen to their teaching, but, I personally do not believe that to be wise. I realize that many people like these teachers, and for good reason--they are very likeable people. If you do continue to listen to them, I encourage you to exercise a great deal of discernment.
The concerns that I have with these teachers have also concerned many other ministries within the Evangelical community. Our concerns are not over small, "non-essential" matters where there has historically been, and currently is, room for discussion and disagreement (such as end time events, etc.). Unfortuantely, these teachers have taught things so contrary to historic, orthodox Christianity, that it is considered by many to be heretical against the very essence of the Christian faith. T.D. Jakes, for example, denies the essential doctrine of the Trinity, while the teachings of the others are contrary to the Biblical teaching on God's nature, attributes, and the atonement, just to name a few. As you can see, hopefully, the issues at hand are of grave importance in that they deal with the very essence and foundation of the Christian faith.
If you are a follower of one of the above teachers, all I ask is that you simply investigate for yourself. If you find that our analysis is correct, I encourage you to write each of these teachers with your concerns, and cease supporting their ministry. If you find that our analysis is not correct, I am more than willing to dialogue with you, and if I am wrong, I will immediately issue a public apology and take this page down.
Believe me, it is not the easiest thing in the world to post things like this against such popular teachers, and it really does sadden me for it to even be necessary for me and others to have to bring this to light. However, I believe that I would not be a responsible minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ if I did not at least make people aware of teaching that is decidedly unbiblical and contrary to the Christian faith. I also respectfully, and in brotherly Christian love, call each of these teachers to please re-examine and reconsider their teachings, and move from error to orthodoxy. God Bless you.
Respectfully In Christ,
Rev. John C. Orlando, Jr
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An Evaluation of the Key Doctrines in the
Health and Wealth Faith Movement
http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/faithmov.htm
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"What's Wrong With The Faith Movement -- Part One: E. W. Kenyon and the Twelve Apostles of Another Gospel" (an article from the Christian Research Journal, Winter 1993, page 16) by Hendrik H. Hanegraaff.
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/crj0118a.txt
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AN EXAMINATION OF THE WORD-FAITH MOVEMENT
by Richard J. Vincent
http://www.biblebb.com/files/WRDFAITH.HTM
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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This is an issue I have struggle with myself. I see and to a point agree with Pastor Mike and Twins Granny that we spend far to much time worry and talking about what the enemy is doing and tearing down the body of Christ. What we need to be doing is studying and knowing the word of God.
However, because far too many Christians today are not doing that and do not know the word of God, they cannot discern that which is false and that which is true.
Therefore, I do not believe that we can keep silent about that which is false. But I believe that a more Christian if you will approach to dealing with this is to spend our time preaching what is true that those who are listening to every wind that blows can discern that witch is false.
I used to like and to listen to Copeland. I had to really pray about whether to throw out the proverbial baby with the bath water. Gee I myself used to believe some pretty false doctrines. I mean really, Copeland does preach that Christ is the Redeemer. God will deal with him in his error, as he will with each of us as we all know now the things we know in part. Right? Well, each of you will have to make that determination on your own through prayer. But as for me, I have come to realize that the things we error regarding are things that the Holy Spirit is at work in the hearts of those who seek to correct and that when we don't see this happening we need to be concerned. This walk is I believe progressive. As for Kenneth Copeland, I see that he still believes that these things are correct and thus I cannot bid him God speed.
Pastor Mike, I myself have heard some of this and I even own one of these old tapes of Kenneth Copeland's. I don't know if I can find it but if I do I will send it to you.
I am going to post this next thing, and it is very very lengthy, but I think it is a very well done article. One of the best I have ever seen, because it's sources are well documented and verifiable and because it seeks not only to speak against Copeland and his mentor Hagin, but it more importantly addresses why these teachings that are so common among the TBN crowd are so dangerous.
This is worth printing and reading and checking out for yourself. Because too many are led astray by this group and we I do not believe can call ourselves responsible stewards of God's word or time or many by supporting them.
The Jesus who became Sin!
Under inspiration, Paul warns in 1 Corinthians 12:3: “Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, (anathema) and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.” Anathema meant a thing devoted to God without being redeemed, doomed to destruction (a sinner, or satanic being). If Christ became sin He is accursed, which is exactly what some Bible teachers are saying today. While Jesus became a curse in our place this is a different word than accursed.
The Bible commends those who study to show themselves approved by rightly dividing the Word of truth. This often takes time and effort to get a true revelation from the Scriptures. There are those who claim to have a revelation, but investigation determines that their source was not the Scriptures but knowledge from another source outside of Scripture. They then conform the written Word to this new revelation. “New” more often means false! As the saying goes, if it’s new it’s not true: if its true it’s not new. There is too much untrue new today that has replaced the old that is true. Peter says, “you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior” (2 Peter 3:2).
There is no greater example of this than from the word faith teachers who have taken certain Scriptures as proof text of their teaching that Jesus died spiritually not only physically on the cross. They claim when he was on the cross he became sin, he died sinful and descended into the earth for three days. He did not recover from this condition until after he became born again, as the first born of many brethren. They state the reason he needed to be born again is because he died spiritually and became sin. Then Jesus found himself in the same position as anyone else born in sin. This makes Christ a sinner without being born in sin or ever sinning.
The question everyone needs to ask is, does the Bible actually teach this? If so we should embrace it. If not, what does it do to the Jesus of the Bible?’ Numerous cult groups have changed Jesus into a mere man or an angel, or someone other than the God who became sinless man and was victorious by dying on the cross. This Jesus could be worse.
To start we need to look at their view of the cross and what exactly was accomplished there. Lets hear them tell it for themselves…Kenneth Hagin, “The death of Jesus Christ was not a physical death alone. If it had been a physical death, Abel would have paid the price for mankind. He was the first man that died because of honoring God and His Word. If it had been a physical death only, it wouldn't have worked! And if He hadn't died spiritually, that body never would have died.” (What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)
Notice the distortion of understanding the Biblical facts. Abel was murdered by his brother, it was not a willing sacrificial death. Jesus, although murdered by his brethren, went willingly. It was not a mistake. It was done at a specific place at a specific time in a specific way. God ordained it through the hands of men of Israel and the Roman authorities.
Kenneth Hagin again states, “He (Jesus) tasted spiritual death for every man. And his spirit and inner man went to hell in my place. Can’t you see that? PHYSICAL DEATH WOULDN’T REMOVE YOUR SINS. He tasted death for every man. He’s talking about spiritual death.” (How Jesus obtained his name tape # 44HO1 side 1)
Kenneth Copeland also reiterates what his mentor says, “When His blood poured out it did not atone.” (Kenneth Copeland: From a personal letter to D.R.McConnell, dated 12/3/79. Cited in A Different Gospel, p.120) Just to be sure this is not misinterpreted he says the same to The Christian Research Institute that requested a statement “...When His blood poured out, it did not atone. It did away with the handwriting of the ordinances that were against us.” (K. Copeland, Form letter, March 12, 1979 )
Copeland teaches, “Because his physical death was not enough for the payment of sins there was a another way for sins payment. Jesus put Himself into the hands of Satan when He went to that cross, and took that same nature that Adam did [when he sinned].” (Kenneth Copeland, The Incarnation (Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1985, audiotape #01-0402) side 1.)
What actually did happen to Christ’s spirit is seen in Luke 23:46: “Father, into Thy hands I commit My Spirit” ( Matthew 27:50; John 19:30). Jesus put Himself into the hands of the Father, not Satan. He pronounced His time of departure, yielding His spirit to God the Father, and then breathed His last. He gave His body for us, and committed His spirit to God. His spirit did not die, or go to sleep, nor was it taken captive in hell. The cross was a place of victory not of defeat. In response to CRI concerns of his view of the atonement and spiritual death Copeland sent to answer their questions concerning his view of Christ's atoning work - “Since He (Jesus) was made to be sin, He had to pay the penalty for sin. He had to die spiritually, which took Him into the regions of the damned, before He could redeem us.” K. Copeland, Form letter dated March 12, 1979 (Christian Research Institute).
The Bible-God was reconciling the world to himself (2 Corinthians5:19). Jesus never had the fallen nature of Adam. If he did, it would have disqualified Himself as the sacrifice. How could he reconcile the world if he became something other than the sinless sacrifice? The Bible teaches that Christ was separate from sinners and did not atone for himself.
Common sense should prevail. God in Isaiah 53:11 calls Jesus as His “righteous servant” during the time of His suffering on the cross? If Jesus were truly transformed into a Satanic being or had the nature of Satan he could not be called righteous by God. If Jesus took on the nature of Satan he would hardly be praying for His enemies, instead of “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do,” (Lk.23:34) he would also be asking for revenge. Satan's enemy is the Church, so then Christ would not be dying for the forgiveness of sins. He would not want to remove sin if he had the nature of Satan, instead he would want to promote it. Which is unconsciously what the faith teachers do when they move the atonement event to a later time and place.
Which death paid for our sins
Because of their expanding theology, which brings the atonement as a continuation, they have read into passage to conclude Jesus died a double death, both physically and spiritually. One of the main texts they make use of to promote the double-death of Christ (physical and spiritual) is Isaiah 53:9, “He made His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death...” In the Hebrew the word for death in this verse is in the plural form, deaths. This is interpreted as proof that Jesus suffered a double-death, both physical (his body) and spiritual (his spirit) death on the cross! Was Jesus’ death both a physical as well as spiritual one?
The word for DEATH in Hebrew is mawet; it appears 150 times in the Old Testament. The foremost and obvious interpretation of this passage is in the context itself. “With the rich in His death;” this is in reference to his body being buried in Joseph of Arimathea’s tomb. (Matthew 27:57-60) It would be ridiculous to say that both his body and spirit were in the tomb, since that would go against Scripture as well as the doctrine the faith teachers are promoting.
D.R McConnell explains the Hebrew plural in this text in relation to Kenyon's teachings: “Plural nouns are extremely common in the Hebrew Scriptures. They are not just used to denote numerical plurality, but also to emphasize a particular meaning of the noun. In Hebrew, plural nouns express majesty, rank, excellence, magnitude and intensity. In Isaiah 53:9, 'deaths' is a plural of intensity used by the writer to indicate that the death mentioned was a particularly violent one. It no more means that the king of Tyre died two deaths than that the Messiah died two deaths.” (D.R. McConnell, p.128.)
V. 9 reads: “And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his deaths” (bemotav). In his deaths is a Hebrew way of speaking and means in His violent death or something of that type. That the word death is plural and says nothing about the servant. For even though the plural death is used, the reference remains singular: his. There is no reference to a subject, or to a servant, in the plural form. That would be, in their deaths, bemotehem.
The verse has, “in his deaths.” The word “deaths” is in the plural. The Hebrew plural form “deaths” can also mean violent death. Then the translation would be: “And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his violent death.” Christ's death was not something he deserved, but did for us.
Isa.53:9 The plural deaths intensifies the force, Adam by sin `dying died' (Gen. 2:17, margin) incurred death physical and spiritual. So Messiah, His substitute, endured death in both senses: spiritual, during His temporary abandonment by the Father; physical, when He expired. (from Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary)
Greek Scholars agree it was a violent death. Another example of this interpretation is in Ezek. 28:8-10, which depicts the violent and certain death of the king of Tyre: “you will die the death of those who are slain.” Keil and Delitzsch, in their Commentary on the Old Testament, Vol. 7, Isaiah, inform us that in both the Isaiah and Ezekiel passages, the plural form for death is an example of pluralis exaggerativus: “it is applied to a violent death, the very pain of which makes it like dying again and again.” It obviously does not mean that you will literally die more than one death, no one dies over and over. It is describing of the intensity of that one death.
Jesus himself explained what his death meant when he told us to remember him by partaking in both the body and blood. These are physical elements of a physical activity with a spiritual meaning (Luke 22:19,20; 1Corinthians11:24-26). In 1 Corinthians 11 we are told that as often as we eat the bread and drink the cup we are “proclaiming the Lord’s death till He comes.” Which death are we announcing? This Scripture speaks of only one death involved in redemption, a physical death. This is the death we are to remember him by. The wafer represents His body and the wine represents His blood. The wafer was made with no leaven in it, as leaven is a symbol of sin. Therefore Christ was sinless. Mark 14:22-24 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.” Then He took the cup, and when He had given thanks He gave it to them, and they all drank from it. And He said to them, “This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.” Paul states in 1 Cor. 10:16-17: “The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? Hebrews 13:21 calls this sacrifice the “blood of the everlasting covenant.” In other words, without the blood we cannot have a relationship with God; this involves his physical death. There is no element in the Lord’s Supper to remind us of his “spiritual” death. Jesus spoke of laying down His physical life in John 15:13, not his spirit.
In John 6:51, Jesus describes Himself as, “...the living Bread which came down from heaven, and the bread which I shall give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” He did not speak of giving his spirit with his body nor his spirit separately- but HIS FLESH for the life of the world. The word “flesh” indicates the body. Jesus never teaches anything about his spirit being involved in the atonement.
This sacrifice is dependent upon a physical death. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. The atonement came by the blood, the life of man. The blood atones, not any suffering by itself, before or after the cross. All the Old Testament types and symbolic usages of sacrifices show Christ as the fulfillment of the law and the sacrifices. No Old Testament animal sacrifice had any relationship to a spiritual death. John uses Old Testament typology as he introduced Jesus as “the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world”; this was done by death.
The Bible- Col.1:20: “And by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross… yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach.”
This is related to a physical death. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Even if he did die spiritually, Its not his spiritual death that could have any importance but the atonement through the blood, the life of man. The blood atones, not any suffering by itself before or after the cross. The whole Old Testament types and symbolic usage's of sacrifices show Christ as the fulfillment of the law.
Both Paul's epistles to different churches explain the very same things.
Col. 1:14: “In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.”
Eph. 1:7: “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.”
Heb. 10:19-20 “Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh.”
Revelation 1:5“...To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood.”
He suffered only one death and it was on the cross, the death of his flesh. In this death he became obedient to the Father (Philippians 2:8). It is by this act of submission that we were redeemed and restored to fellowship.
BECOMING SIN FOR US
2 Corinthians 5:21 Word-Faith promoters confuse the meaning of this passage, since it is important for their doctrine of substitution and validates the idea of Jesus suffering in hell. Paul says: “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might be the righteousness of God in him.” Isaiah 53:5 tells us that the chastisement of our peace was laid “upon” Him. Isaiah 53:6 say’s the Lord laid our iniquity “on” him, not “in” him; there was no change in nature. Our sin was laid to his account. He bore its penalty as a punishment, as our substitution; he carried it away (fulfilling the typology of the scapegoat in Lev.16), not becoming sin or crushed by it. As it says in v.10, it pleased the Lord to bruise him. How? By being a lamb led to the slaughter. V.12 tells us he made intercession for the transgressors, which would be hard to do if you became one of them. Since God does not hear the prayer of a sinful man, especially the sin fullest human that ever lived. (the faith teachers he became worse than all having every sin imaginable).
It was E.W. Kenyon that explained “When this happened, spiritual death, the nature of Satan, took possession of His Spirit.... He was to partake of Spiritual Death, the nature of the Adversary.... Jesus knew that the moment had come, and He was to be made Sin. He must partake of that dread nature of the Adversary. His body would become mortal. Satan would become His master.... He [Jesus] had been lifted up as a serpent. Serpent is Satan. Jesus knew He was going to be lifted up, united with the Adversary.” (What Happened from the Cross to the Throne Kenyon's Gospel Publishing Society, 1969, 20, 33, 44-45)
Creflo Dollar “He’s got to look like a sinner. Or they’re not going to receive Him into hell, you’ve got to be a sinner. He’s got to somehow look like that serpent on that stick in Moses’ day. He’s got to look like a serpent in order to be taken in. And Jesus who had never sinned, made an exchange with His covenant partner. He says “Let Me wear your coat of sin. It’ll make Me look like a sinner. I’ve never sinned, but if I can put your coat of sin on, when I get back I’m going to give you my coat of righteousness. So The bible says that He who had not sinned was made sin. (Our Equality with God Through Righteousness 1/21/2001)
Jesus had to “accept the sin nature of Satan.” (Kenneth Copeland, What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, side 2.)
Nowhere in the Scripture does it say, God made Him to be a sinner' but 'He had made Him to be sin.' This occurred by taking our place as a substitution. Contrary to Kenyon's theology Jesus always was mortal in his human nature, and nowhere does Scripture say Satan became his master. God subject to Satan is not the teaching of the bible in any shape or form.
Jesus speaking to Copeland teaches him, “It was a sign of Satan that was hanging on the cross....I accepted, in my own spirit, spiritual death; and the light was turned off.” (Kenneth Copeland, What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, side 2.)
Benny Hinn agrees “Ladies and gentlemen, the serpent is a symbol of Satan. Jesus Christ knew the only way He would stop Satan is by becoming one in nature with him. You say, 'What did you say? What blasphemy is this?' No, you hear this! He did not take my sin; He became my sin. Sin is the nature of hell. Sin is what made Satan...It was sin that made Satan. Jesus said, 'I'll be sin! I'll go to the lowest place! I'll go to the origin of it! I won't just take part in it, I'll be the totality of it!' “ (Benny Hinn” program, TBN, 12/15/90 )
First we need to know that the origin of sin was not Hell nor does Hell have a nature, therefore Jesus did not become or go to hell. The origin of sin for mankind the bible teaches is found in Adam the first man (Rom.5:12). Many of these men teach on Hell not as a place to avoid for punishment from our sin, but a place that Christ went because of sin! (Think about it, you rarely hear about eternal judgment as the consequence of not having your sin forgiven).
Paul warns in 1 Cor. 12:3 “Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, (anathema) and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. “ Anathema meant a thing devoted to God without being redeemed, doomed to destruction (a sinner, satanic being). If Christ became sin he is accursed, which is exactly what the faith teachers are saying. This would be different than the curse of the law in Gal. 3:13-14 “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”) this shows he took the law away that made one guilty when they did not keep it perfectly. It also shows it occurred on the cross.( Col.2:14-15)
2 Cor. 5:21 In Adam Clarke's commentary he states “He made him who knew no sin (who was innocent), a sin-offering for us. The word hamartia (NT:266) occurs here twice: in the first place it means sin, i.e. transgression and guilt; and of Christ it is said, He knew no sin, i.e. was innocent; for not to know sin is the same as to be conscious of innocence; … to be conscious of nothing against one's self, is the same as … to be unimpeachable.
In the second place, it signifies a sin-offering, or sacrifice for sin, and answers to the chaTa'ah (OT:2401) and chaTa'at (OT:2401) of the Hebrew text; which signifies both sin and sin-offering in a great variety of places in the Pentateuch. The Septuagint translates the Hebrew word by hamartia (NT:266) in 94 places in Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers, where a sin-offering is meant; and where our version translates the word not sin, but an offering for sin. Had our translators attended to their own method of translating the word in other places where it means the same as here, they would not have given this false view of a passage which has been made the foundation of a most blasphemous doctrine; namely, that our sins were imputed to Christ, and that he was a proper object of the indignation of Divine justice, because he was blackened with imputed sin; and some have proceeded so far in this blasphemous career as to say, that Christ may be considered as the greatest of sinners, because all the sins of mankind, or of the elect, as they say, were imputed to him, and reckoned as his own. One of these writers translates the passage thus: . … God accounted Christ the greatest of sinners, that we might be supremely righteous. Thus they have confounded sin with the punishment due to sin. Christ suffered in our stead; died for us; bore our sins (the punishment due to them), in his own body upon the tree, for the Lord laid upon him the iniquities of us all; that is, the punishment due to them; explained by making his soul-his life, an offering for sin; and healing us by his stripes. (from Adam Clarke's Commentary)
Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown's Commentary on 2 Cor. 5:21 “…the representative guilt-bearer of the aggregate sin of all men past, present, and future. The sin of the world is one; therefore the singular, not the plural, is used; its manifestations are manifold (John 1:29: cf. Rom 8:3-4; Gal 3:13). [For us]-Greek, `in our behalf' (cf. John 3:14). Christ was represented by the brazen serpent, the form, but not of the substance, of the old serpent. At his death on the cross the sin-bearing for us was consummated.(from Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary)
Albert Barnes notes on 2 Cor. 5:21, If the declaration that he was made “sin” hamartian (NT:266) does not mean that he was sin itself, or a sinner, or guilty, then it must mean that he was a sin-offering-an offering or a sacrifice for sin; and this is the interpretation which is now generally adopted by expositors; or it must be taken as an abstract for the concrete, and mean that God treated him as if he were a sinner. The former interpretation, that it means that God made him a sin-offering,”
2 Cor. 5:21 Locke renders this: probably expressing the true sense, “For God hath made him subject to suffering and death, the punishment and consequence of sin, as if he had been a sinner, though he were guilty of no sin.” To me, it seems probable that the sense is, that God treated him as if he had been a sinner; that he subjected him to such pains and woes as would have been a proper punishment if he had been guilty; that while he was, in fact, in all senses perfectly innocent, and while God knew this, yet that in consequence of the voluntary assumption of the place of man which the Lord Jesus took, it pleased the Father to lay on him the deep sorrows which would be the proper expression of his sense of the evil of sin; that he endured so much suffering, as would answer the same great ends in maintaining the truth, and honor, and justice of God, as if the guilty had themselves endured the penalty of the Law. This, I suppose, is what is usually meant when it is said “our sins were imputed to him;” and though this language is not used in the Bible, and though it is liable to great misapprehension and perversion, yet if this is its meaning, there can be no objection to it.
(Certainly Christ's being made sin, is not to be explained of his being made sin in the abstract, nor of his having actually become a sinner; yet it does imply, that sin was charged on Christ, or that it was imputed to him, and that he became answerable for it. Nor can this idea be excluded, even if we admit that “sin-offering” is the proper rendering of hamartia (NT:266) in the passage. “That Christ,” says an old divine commenting on this place, “was made sin for us, because he was a sacrifice for sin, we confess; but therefore was he a sacrifice for sin because our sins were imputed to him, and punished in him.” …”All such views as go to make the Holy Redeemer a sinner, or guilty, or deserving of the sufferings he endured, border on blasphemy,” etc. Nor is it wiser to affirm that “if Christ was properly guilty, it would make no difference in this respect, whether it was by his own fault or by imputation.” What may be meant in this connection by “properly guilty,” we know not. But this is certain, that there is an immense difference between Christ's having the guilt of our iniquities charged on him, and having the guilt of his own so charged.” (from Barnes' Notes)
A.T Robertson states He made to be sin (hamartian epoieôsen). The words “to be” are not in the Greek.
“Sin” here is the substantive, not the verb. God “treated as sin” the one “who knew no sin.” But he knew the contradiction of sinners (Heb 12:3). We may not dare to probe too far into the mystery of Christ’s suffering on the Cross, but this fact throws some light on the tragic cry of Jesus just before he died: “My God, My God, why didst thou forsake me?” (Matthew 27:46). (Robertson's Word pictures)
Robertson’s comment,” We may not dare to probe too far into the mystery of Christ’s suffering on the Cross.” Meaning its depth is left to God alone. But this is exactly what the faith teachers do, and because of this they come to the wrong conclusions. By going beyond what the Scripture states!
I John 3:5 says, “And you know he appeared to take away our sins, and in him, THERE IS NO SIN,” literally meaning that he had no sin before, during, nor after the cross. While many shift the atonement event to after the cross, there are some who may not understand that they are saying that there is NO salvation in the cross! But Paul states in 1 Corinthians1 that there is no salvation apart from the cross.
The UNFINISHED WORK ON THE CROSS
E.W. Kenyon wrote “We have sung `Nearer the cross' and we have prayed that we might be `Nearer the cross' but the cross has no salvation in it. It is a place of failure and defeat” (Advanced Bible Course, p.279)
Here is where Hagin and Copeland his disciple get his non-fundamental ideas. No salvation in the Cross! What does Paul say in 1 Cor.1, there is no salvation apart from the cross.
“Satan conquered Jesus on the Cross and took His spirit to the dark regions of hell” (Kenneth Copeland, Holy Bible: Kenneth Copeland Reference Edition 1991 p.129) To put this statement in the bible as a commentary (his edition) shows ones contempt for the truth.
Did Jesus say, “It is unfinished!”? Or “FINISHED” The Greek word for “it is finished means “paid in FULL.” It was used to wipe away any debt that someone would owe to another.
Copeland is adamant “The plan of redemption BEGAN when Jesus said “It is FINISHED”.” (Classic Redemption, p.13) “Jesus death on the cross was not enough to save us.” (What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303), (Believer's Voice of Victory, September 1991)
After he dies spiritually he is not made alive (born again) until his suffers for our sin in HELL. According to Frederick Price's gospel: “Do you think that the punishment for our sin was to die on a cross? If that were the case, the two thieves could have paid your price. No, the punishment was to go into hell itself and to serve time in hell separated from God…Satan and all the demons of hell thought that they had Him bound and they threw a net over Jesus and dragged Him down to the very pit of hell itself to serve our sentence.” (Frederick K.C. Price, Ever Increasing Faith Messenger (June 1980) 7)
The evidence of Scripture is overwhelming testifying to the fact that Christ’s death upon the cross was a physical death only, there was no suffering in hell. He had victory on the cross, not defeat! (John 2:19-21; Ephesians 2:15; Col. 1:22; Hebrews 10:10; 1 Peter 2:24; 3:18; 4:1). One does not have to investigate all the Greek definitions to understand this. All they need to do is rightly divide the Word, looking at all the information on salvation and the crucifixion, to see what God has said about the event and what occurred.
The Bible- Galatians 6:14: “But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ,” 1 Cor.2:2. “I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.” Why say this if it is a place of defeat?
“Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God” (Romans 3:25).
“How much more shall the blood' of Christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?” (Hebrews 9:14).
A sin offering was to be pure without ANY DEFECT! What made Jesus' offering acceptable to God was that His was a sinless offering, a Holy and unblemished offering to God. How could Jesus have literally become sin when Hebrews 9:14 tells us that He offered Himself “without blemish to God”. “ Leviticus 6:25-29 clearly shows that the sin offering was “most holy” to God both before and after its death! 1 Peter 1:18-20 “knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. ...a Lamb without blemish. “ Just as 1 Jn.3:5 states, in him was NO SIN.
“How much more shall the blood' of Christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?” (Hebrews 9:14).
Paul wrote the Ephesians that “Christ loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.” (Eph. 5:2).
Benny Hinn actually says, “Had He (Jesus) not offered Himself through the Holy Ghost, He would not be accepted in the eyes of God the Father. Nor would He have endured the sufferings of the cross. Had He not presented Himself through the Holy Ghost, His blood would not have remained pure and spotless. And let me add this: Had the Holy Spirit not been with Jesus, He would have sinned.” (Benny Hinn, Good Morning Holy Spirit, (Word, 1991) p.135)
What Hinn is proposing is that Christ was not God in his intrinsic nature and needed the Holy Ghost to keep him sinless. While it is true as he was in a state of submission that the holy Spirit was involved, it does not mean he lost his nature as God at any time, not before nor after the cross. But Hinn says he took on he nature of Satan when he was on the cross. In a conversation with Paul crouch he states Benny Hinn: “Jesus Christ destroyed the power of Satan on earth, but destroyed Satan in the under world, the Holy Ghost wasn’t there. Think about that.” Yes, Think about that!
Notice what the book of Hebrews states, which is a NT commentary on the book of Leviticus.
The Bible Heb. 9:11-13 “But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. “So he entered the most holy place. How could he do this if he was made sin if he was defiled in ANY way?
Heb. 9:18-22 “Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.” Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry. And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.”
Heb 10:4-10 “For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me. In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You had no pleasure. Then I said, 'Behold, I have come--In the volume of the book it is written of Me--To do Your will, O God.' “ Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
Lev. 17:11 for ...the life of the flesh is in the blood...it is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul.”
Going to Hell to suffer
The faith teachers explain that all was lost on the cross, nothing won. Jesus became the victim of the satanic kingdom tortured unlike any other because he came to save us.
Jesus said on the cross before he expired “Father into your hands I commit my Spirit,” but according to their view it didn't happen he was committed into Satan's hands. This means the Father did not accept the sacrifice, but instead rejected it by allowing him to be taken into the enemy hands. Lets hear them tell it as they express it in many different ways.
Hagin “Do you think that the punishment for our sin was to die on a cross? If that were the case, the two thieves could have paid your price. No the punishment was to go into hell itself and to serve time in hell separated from God ... Satan and all the demons of hell thought that they had him bound, and they threw a net over Jesus and they dragged Him down to the very pit of hell itself to serve our sentence.”
“Satan conquered Jesus on the Cross and took His spirit to the dark regions of hell” (Kenneth Copeland, Holy Bible: Kenneth Copeland Reference Edition 1991 p.129.)
“Jesus went into hell to free mankind from the penalty of Adam's high treason . . . When His blood poured out it did not atone. . . . Jesus spent three horrible days and nights in the bowels of this earth getting back for you and me our rights with God”. (Kenneth Copeland: From a personal letter to D.R.McConnell, dated 12/3/79. found in his book A Different Gospel, p.120)
Notice the clear statement, he went to hell to pay the price. But more importantly is his distorted view of what Jesus is paying for. Its not about high treason its about the sin nature we inherited from Adam and have thus become separated from God.
Copeland defends this, declaring, “it must be preached because it's ... the Truth and it sets people free.” “The day that Jesus was crucified, God's life, that eternal energy .. moved out of Him and He allowed the devil to drag him into the depths of hell as if He were the most wicked sinner who ever lived..[and] to come under Satan's control .. [or] His body would have never died. ...” ( Believer's Voice of Victory, quoted in Berean call September, 1991)
Copeland describes “...Got Him (Jesus) in there. Jesus said three days and three nights the Son of Man will suffer in the heart of the Earth like Jonah in the belly of the whale. Suffered there. suffered your penalty. Suffered my penalty. … the moment God was satisfied, He said, and He shouted right at the very portals of Heaven, and His word went into the pit, into that pit, the lousy guts of this earth, and He bypassed paradise...Jesus is down in that pit. He’s suffering down in there and all of a sudden (yells)”Thy throne O God is Forever !!!(crowd cheers) He went deeper into that pit than any man had ever gone. He suffered all sin. No man has ever committed “all” sin, but that One suffered all sin, all sickness, all disease - the entire curse of the Law. “Made a curse for” - we don’t have any concept of what He went through down there in the bowels of that place called Hell. (Believers voice of victory, Copeland 9/24/97) despite his saying this he is able to describe in detail what the bible does not.
“He [Jesus] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell....He allowed Himself to come under Satan's control...every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him....They tortured Him beyond anything anybody had ever conceived. For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer.” (Kenneth Copeland, “The Price of It All,” 3.)
The Bible says it was for three hours on the cross the judgment of God fell on Jesus for our behalf. This is not enough according to Copeland and others, so it becomes days long. The location, HELL!
Joyce Meyers writes, “During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go because of our sin. He paid the price there. ...no plan was too extreme. ...” (The most important decision you will ever make p. 35, J. Meyers)
To her credit she also says....... that sinless blood had been shed to pay for man's sins.” p. 38. But she then writes, “For three days He was alone paying for our sins as “only a man.” Its somewhat confusing on what she actually believes. Which is it, the cross or the cross plus. To say he atoned for our sins as “only a man” seems to deny the hypostatic union of the two natures in the person of Christ as well.
Fred Price has allegiance in the same camp as he also teaches “Do you think that the punishment for our sin was to die on a cross? If that were the case, the two thieves could have paid your price. No, the punishment was to go into hell and to serve time in hell separated from God....Satan and all the demons of hell thought that they had Him bound and they threw a net over Jesus and they dragged Him down to the very pit of hell itself to serve our sentence.” (F.K.C. Price, Ever Increasing Faith Messenger, Newsletter Crenshaw Christian Centre, Inglewood, CA. June 1980, p.7.)
How does Price also describe something the bible does not? The devil drag Him into the depths of hell! Satan doesn't run Hell. He hasn't even been there, and He has every intention of never being there. Neither will he have the ability to torture lost souls in Hell, because He (they) will themselves be tortured.
It becomes clear that the faith teaching states there would have been no price paid for sin if Jesus had finished his work on the cross and went to Paradise.
Charles Capp's says “ If there's any part of hell Jesus did not suffer, you'll have to suffer it. But, thank God, Jesus suffered it all, for you! In the place of the wicked dead, all the demons of hell and Satan rejoiced over the prize. The corridors of hell were filled with joy. 'We've done it! We've captured the Son of God! We'll no longer be in the pit of the damned! The earth and all that is therein is ours! Forever it will be ours!' Rejoicing in hell had never been so great as it was that day. But it was short-lived.” (Authority in Three Worlds, 143 )
The word/faith teachers deny What Jesus told the apostles “This is My blood...which is shed for many for the remission of sins” (Mt. 26:28).
If Jesus was not victorious on the Cross, then he wasn't victorious AT ALL!
Did Jesus enter Hell or Hades?
Matthew 12:40, “...so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The use of this word heart meant the interior of a thing or of being in it. Here it is referring to the tomb he was in. Yet he did continue to exist as a Spirit (who is God in his nature).
Because they do not believe he was God in the flesh, but a man empowered by the spirit they can come to the erroneous conclusion that he was tortured in Spirit (if you think this is not so. Go to quotes on this teaching)
When Jesus used Jonah as an example it was to point to a location, and the manner of death not to punishment.
Kenneth Copeland states this as Bible when he says, “For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer. Some people don't want to believe that. They want to believe that after His death, Jesus just stayed in that upper region of Sheol that the Bible calls paradise, but they're mistaken! If He had simply stayed there, there would have been no price paid for sin.” (Believer's Voice of Victory, Vol. 19, No. 9, Sept. 1991)
Cerflo Dollar echoes his mentor saying, “So now Jesus entered in legally into hell. But He was there illegally. Because once you get to hell there’s got to be some record of your sin. Now He had to stay there 3 days and 3 nights. You better hope He went to hell because if He didn’t go you and I would have to. You better hope He became every sickness, disease and depression and every piece of mess in the world because whatever He didn’t become you and I would have to become ”(Our Equality with God Through Righteousness 1/21/2001).
Copeland again states “I can't understand Christians that refuse to believe that Jesus went to hell. I want to tell you something if he didn't go, you're going to have to.” (The Christian Channel Europe “(Believer's Voice of Victory” May 1998)
No, the point is that He shed his blood on the cross so you would not have to. To put him in the exact place we end up (as sinners) as an equalizer is wrong, dead wrong! He was speaking of the work the Father had given him to do. Then Jesus' statement "it is finished on the cross" was a lie for it was not finished yet, then Eph. 2:16 is false, “that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross” is not possible. It should read through suffering 3 days and nights in Hell!
Joyce Meyers echoes Copeland showing the ties she has with his heresy and this movement.
“There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell” (In her 1991 booklet, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make).
She explains Christ’s atonement: “During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin. He paid the price there ... no plan was too extreme ... Jesus paid on the cross and in hell” (The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make 1991 p. 35,). “He went to hell to pay the debt you owed. (p.41 first edition)
“His spirit went to hell because that is where we deserved to go.” (The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make 1991, p.36.).
The Bible- I Peter 3:18, He writes “ For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being “Put to death in the flesh, but quickened (made alive) This does not mean that He died spiritually and now he is spiritually resurrected, or by the Spirit. It means he died in the body, he was “Put to death in the flesh” not the Spirit. The spirit of Christ did not die, his flesh did. He continued his life existing in the spirit.
Christ died in body only and continued too exist in Spirit as he was before he came to earth. He was put to death in the sphere of the humanity but continued to be alive in the sphere of the Spirit. So his existence in his earthly life ended but continues He continued his life existing in the spirit inside the earth.
I Peter 3:18 states, “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened (made alive) by the Spirit.” This does not mean that He died spiritually and then was spiritually resurrected by the Spirit. It means He died in the body, He was “put to death in the flesh,” not the spirit. The spirit of Christ did not die; His flesh did. He continued his life, existing in the spirit. Christ died in body only and continued to exist in spirit, just as He did before he came to earth. He was put to death in the sphere of the flesh but continued to be alive in the sphere of the spirit. So His existence in his earthly life ended but he continued his life existing in the spirit inside the earth before he resurrected.
V. 19-20: “By whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.” The spirits He went to preach to were those from the time of the flood; the word for “preach” is in Gr. Kerysso, meaning to proclaim or announce (judgment). This is different than to evangelize and proclaim the good news of reconciliation for salvation, which is used in 1 Peter 4:6. This proclamation is directed to either the fallen angels or the human souls that died in the flood (Jude 6; 2 Peter 2:4). Probably having to do with announcing that their judgment is imminent, as he had just come from the victory on the cross. Col. 2:15, “Having disarmed principalities and powers, he made a public spectacle of them triumphing over them in it.” When? On the cross (v.14), this could never have occurred if Christ was suffering in Hell, as they claim.
The Bible-Acts 2:27, “For you will not leave my soul in Hades, nor will you allow your Holy One to see corruption.”
Christ experienced no suffering from others, since that would be corruption. Peter repeats himself just a few verses later in Acts 2:31: “His soul was not left in Hell (Hades), nor did his flesh did see corruption.” Notice it says neither soul nor body saw corruption. Certainly to say that he became sin and was tortured as any other sinner would mean He did see corruption. The verse quoted by Peter is Psalm 16:10. The King James Version uses the word hell; a more accurate translation would be Sheol in Hebrew, which encompasses both Abraham’s bosom and hell. Sheol is used 65 times in the Old Testament; rarely is it used to denote a place of torment. The customary meaning is realm of the dead, meaning the state of death or the grave (Gen. 37:35; 1 Sam. 2:6; Psalm 141:7). In New Testament Greek the equivalent for Hades is often interpreted as the realm of the dead. We find in Luke 16:23,25 that Hades can mean a place of torment, though it may equally be described as a place of rest, in Abraham’s bosom, depending on which side you are on. The context should bear it out.
Jesus never suffered in hell under the torments of Satan. In fact, He told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise that very day (Luke 23:43). If the atonement had not been completed on the cross, He could never have said that the thief would be in paradise with Him. The thief would have then entered suffering with Jesus.
There is no salvation apart from His blood sacrifice; without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Hebrews 10:29: “Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? The Bible teaches that our redemption comes “through the blood of the cross” nothing else (Ephesians 1:7; Col. 1:14, 20).
His victory in HELL
After the three days of a mockery and the torture Charles Capps writes “When Jesus was in the pit of hell. in that terrible torment, no doubt the Devil and his emissaries gathered around to see the annihilation of God's Son. But in the corridors of hell, there came a great voice from heaven: 'Turn Him Loose! He's there illegally!' And all of hell became paralyzed.” (Authority in Three Worlds, 143 )
“Why did He (Jesus) need to be begotten, or born? Because He became like we were: separated from God. Because He tasted spiritual death for every man....Jesus was the first person that was ever born again.” (K. Hagin, How Jesus Obtained His Name, Tulsa: Rhema, audiotape #44H01)
Contrary to his human reasoning the meaning is the firstborn from death unto eternal life. It has to do with physical body not the Spirit.
Hinn teaches Christ's “rebirth” in hell: “My, you know, whoosh! The Holy Ghost is just showing me some stuff. I’m getting dizzy! I’m telling you the truth-it’s, it’s just heavy right now on me…He’s [referring to Jesus] in the underworld now. God isn’t there, the Holy Ghost isn’t there, and the Bible says He was begotten. Do you know what the word begotten means? It means reborn. Do you want another shocker? Have you been begotten? So was He. Don’t let anyone deceive you. Jesus was reborn. You say, ‘What are you talking about?’…He was reborn. He had to be reborn…If He was not reborn, I could not be reborn, I would never be reborn. How can I face Jesus and say, “Jesus, You went through everything I’ve gone through, except the new birth?” (Benny Hinn, Our Position ‘In Christ,’ Part 1 (Orlando, FL: Orlando Christian Center, 1991), videotape #TV-254)
Consider the concept “If He was not reborn, I could not be reborn.” According to the Scripture Christ was not reborn so that means you were not either! [To be reborn means one needs a new nature because they are a sinner.]
Copeland states “Jesus was reborn in the pits of hell.” (What Happened From the Cross to the Throne)”He was the first man to ever be born again from sin to the righteousness of God. Hallelujah !!! (9/24/97 video)
“The day I realized that a born-again man had defeated Satan, hell, and death, I got so excited..!” September, 1991, Believer's Voice of Victory)
“God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, ‘Let Him go.’ Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus ... He was resurrected from the dead - the first born-again man” (The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, pg. 36, 1991 booklet)
Contrary to their imaginations he did not become born again in Hell only those who have the nature of sin need a new birth.
Ask yourself What kind of teaching is this that Christ suffered in hell only to be reborn like any other man? No one in Church history had taught such a thing until today's new spiritual revelators came along.
Charles Capp's goes even further, “Jesus was born again in the pit of hell. He was the firstborn, the first begotten, from the dead. He started the Church of the firstborn in the gates of hell... He went down to the gates and started His Church there....The Church started when Jesus was born again in the gates of hell.” (C.Capps, Authority in Three Worlds, op. cit. p.212-213)
The Bible-Acts 2, the Church was born on Pentecost when the Spirit of God was sent to those in the upper room and the gospel was preached at Jerusalem where 3,000 were saved.
Heb.10:29: “Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?”
The Bible teaches that our redemption comes “through the blood of the cross” (Eph. 1:7; Col. 1:14, 20).
“The blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 Jn.1:7). All Sin; which means there was nothing needed to be added. When He said, “it is finished” on the cross, that is exactly what He meant.
We receive this gift is by faith: “It pleased God, by the foolishness of preaching, to save them that believe” (I Cor. 1:21). Believe what? The Gospel! It is “the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes.” (Rom 1:16). Believe what? I Cor. 15:1-4 that “Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again.” That is it, no more no less.
Where did He die for our sins becomes the crucial question? I ask you, do these teachers present the blood of Christ as the finished atonement for sin or suffering in Hell. If a Bible teacher presents the blood of Christ as not the finished atonement for sin and further suffering is included; whether Gethsamane or Hell is required, this is a false representation of Jesus’ work to atone for sin. This is no different than one mischaracterizing the person of Jesus at the incarnation. It becomes a different Jesus, and a different Gospel -- a Jesus who did not save through the atonement on the cross, and instead redeemed us in Hell! What a terrible distortion of the most important event God did for mankind. Only teachers in biblical ignorance and sinister ministers would promote this “new, improved version” of the New Covenant.
Philippians 3:18: “For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ.”
Touch , Topple, Tilt Another gospel Exercising Discernment Suffering
Is Healing in the atonement Prayer False Teachers among Us Was Jesus Rich!
Danger , Deception and Diabolical teaching Its Jubilee I have what I Think I have
Isaiah 53 by his Stripes I'm Healed His miracles The Prosperity of the faith Teachers
Whose influencing Whom? The Image of God in Man Were All Healed by Faith
Another Kenneth Copeland false prophecy Becoming Rich in this present age
Rod Parsley's teaching Gloria Copeland's teachings K. Copeland's teachings
Jesus the Sinner Jesus of the Faith Movement Walter Martin's Warning to the Church
Death by faith The Price is right or wrong? Parsley, Purple Passion and Paisley
I'm rich!
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Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Pastor Mike
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Dear SoftTouch,
Have you personally heard these tapes? I don't know this Jim Fox or his credentials. If you have not heard these tapes personally, then I would say that we are listening to nothing but gossip about someone. One of the first things I learned in my Christian experience was not to take the word of just one person. Even Satan in his temptation of Jesus quoted Scripture but with some slight omissions added so that the whole context was changed. I would have to see the entire context before I would believe this about these people. We are to put the best construction on everything unless we are personally aware by our own observation that the things we hear are accurate. There is a person who constantly criticized the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (even putting out a newspaper with his criticisms) who totally misrepresents things that occur in given contexts. I know because I was personally at some of the events I have seen him criticize. Therefore, I am suspicious of anyone who constantly criticizes people in this manner. Thanks
Posts: 55 | From: Staunton, IL | Registered: Sep 2003
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TEXASGRANDMA
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The more I read of this, the more convinced I am that we need to stay in the word of God and in prayer, so that we are not mislead. I am not saying who is wrong or who is right but it sounds like a lot of "respected" people have gone off on some kinda of tangent. God help us!
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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SoftTouch
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Hi Pastor Mike
My reason for posting this is not to start an argument, but to hopefully point out the False Teaching. The following is from: http://www.gospeloutreach.net/wfquotes.html
Word of Faith Sayings
Compiled by Jim Fox
This is a synopsis of statements made by the major Word Faith teachers; after each statement, you will find the source material listed so that you can read or hear the exact quote for yourself. It has been my intent to paraphrase these teachers as exactly as possible for the purpose of allowing you, the reader, to get an overview, or the 'big picture' if you will of the Word Faith movement.
[I'm only putting a few of his quotes here]
KENNETH COPELAND
Jesus was born-again.
(Substitution and Identification)
Every Christian is a god.
(Force of Love; Tape #02-0028)
(Believer's Voice of Victory, broadcast July 9, 1987)
There is a god class of beings.
(Force of Love; Tape #02-0028)
(Praise the Lord broadcast (TBN), recorded 2/5/86)
When we use the spiritual laws that God has set up, God must obey what we request.
God traveled to earth in a space ship called light.
Satan wanted God to interject Himself into the world, which would be illegal, then Satan could turn God's light out.
(What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)
Adam lost the innate ability to create at the fall.
Any O.T. prophet could have attoned for our sins if they knew what Jesus knew.
(Substitution and Identification)
The (eternal) Abrahamic Covenant came to an end when Jesus died on the cross.
(What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)
Jesus has a beginning and an end.
(What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)
Jesus has not remained the same, he has changed.
(What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)
Jesus was reborn in the pits of hell.
(What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)
Jesus is in a higher position now than before He died on the cross.
(What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)
The biggest failure in the whole Bible is God.
(Praise-a-thon, (TBN) recorded 1988
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
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Pastor Mike
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I am amazed that so many of these men and churches are lumped together in one scenario by all these articles. I can hardly see a corrolation between Kenneth Copeland and the Catholic Church, for example. It makes me question the motives of these authors. Are they trying to tear down the church of Christ or build it up. It seems from what was said that one motive is to try to preserve denominations as separate fragmented entities rather than to look to the unity of the body of Christ. I have personally watched at least two or three of these people and have never heard them expound on a new church to supplaint every other church, nor have I heard them expound anything that was not firmly based in Scripture. Therefore, I am skeptical about this blatant attack by these articles. It would seem to be more of a worldly attitude of divisiveness than a loving Christian one.
Posts: 55 | From: Staunton, IL | Registered: Sep 2003
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SoftTouch
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Here is some interesting material I came across on the "Messiah" of the New Age. This information is a few years old, but according to the "official website" (Share International) things are still progressing and this "spirit" is planning it's unveiling soon. Right now, no one knows "Who" the actual person is who's claiming to be this "spirit" but I have a feeling it won't be long until we find out...
Maitreya
(1) A Sneak Peek At The False Prophet
Check out these articles and the web site of a false prophet, maybe THE False Prophet. This is the leader that is proclaiming himself to be Christ returned and aspires to lead the world church. The worldwide "revival" movement, bringing diverse groups and people together such as Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, The Latter Rain Movement, Manifest Sons Of God, Jubilee 2000, Oral Roberts University, The Roman Catholic Church, Word-Faith Movement, Rodney Howard-Browne, Toronto "Blessing" churches, Brownsville AOG "Revival" churches and many more, is now in the process of breaking down all denominational/religious barriers via "signs and wonders" to form one world church. This world church will find it's leader in the False Prophet. Click on the numbers below to go to the linked article.
(1) The Christ Has Presented His Credentials to the Media, New Age Organization Says
(2) The Emergence Of Lord Maitreya, The World Teacher
(3) Questions Dealing With The Activities Of Maitreya
(4) A Compilation Of Teachings From The World Teacher, Maitreya The Christ
(5) Maitreya Buddha's Emergence
(6) Maiterya's Appearances
(7) Miracles Abound
(8) Maitreya's Appearance in Nairobi, Kenya With Photographs
(9) A Photograph of Maitreya
(2) Lord Maitreya: Lord Of The Apostasy? by Ed Tarkowski, 1996
"Endtimes! Unity! Celebration! Joy! Rebirth! Right Relationships! Transformation! The greatest Move of God ever known to the Church! These are the subjects I addressed in my three part series on the surge of Latter Rain and Restorationist unity, harvest and revival currently hitting the Church head on. As I researched the articles, which focused on the "birthing of the corporate child" by the year 2000, I was shocked to see that the various quotations I'd gathered from church leaders also formed a vivid picture of these new moves in the Church. Months later, as I began to research false christs for our Home Page on our Lord's second coming, I was again taken aback as I discovered that the same Latter Rain/Restorationist agenda was being proposed through the directives and messages of Lord Maitreya, the "Master of All Masters" channeled by New Ager Benjamin Creme. Lord Maitreya is a likely candidate to be the "Lord" of the endtime Apostasy, and may very well manifest himself in some way during the global celebrations scheduled for the year 2000."
(3) The Final Equinox 2000 ... Maitreya by Daniel Adam Millar, 1996
An interesting, if somewhat speculative theory on the end times. However, there is a lot of fascinating information about Lord Maitreya, who the author firmly believes is the False Prophet and the "second beast in Revelation 13".
(4) Lord Maitreya: The Messiah In Disguise? by the Watchman Fellowship, 1995
"According to Benjamin Creme, spokesman for the Maitreya and director of the Tara Center, the Maitreya appeared in Nairobi, Kenya to a group of about 6,000 worshipers. "On June 11, he appeared suddenly in the crowd and spoke to them in their own language, Swahili, for a time. Benjamin Creme confirmed that this appearance was truly Maitreya the Christ in one of his many guises" (Network News, June/July 1988, p. 2)."
(5) Maiterya's New Logo Symbol
This is purportatdly Maitreya's new logo. Here's the animated version.You will notice that it can be seen as having 666 elements. The basic six-pointed star is made up of two pyramids. On each six point are six logos. The first seal is the I-Ching/yin-yang as the center for a lotus flower with an embedded swastika. This is the same as the center seal. The second seal is a star of David of Israel. The third seal is the cross of Christianity, the fourth seal is the cresent moon of Islam with an I-Ching in the middle of the star. The fifth seal is the nine-pointed star of Baha'i. The sixth seal is allegedly the seal of the "Elects" which is basically a star of David with a rising sun embedded with a swastika. You will notice that he I-Ching symbol itself is made up of six elements. The lotus flower petal represents the seventh level of "chakra" called the Soma/Sahasrara Chakra where a person allegedly becomes one with the universe. "The seventh trumpet is representative of the event when the Aquarian experiences the Soma/Sahasrara Chakra activation." On the day of declaration Maitreya will likely announce himself with the blast of a "shofar", the Jewish "Jubilee" trumpet. At the blast of this "shofar", all who have been initiated into Kundalini-type experiences and manifestations, such as Hindu mystics, Tibetan monks, channelers, mediums, witches, witch doctors, voodoo preists, satanists, transcendental meditationists, "counterfeit" revivalists and many others will have their highest "chakra", the Soma/Sahasrara Chakra, "activated" and will hear Maitreya speaking to them in unison in their minds. When they realize that people from many religions are hearing the same thing, they will assume that the "anointing" is on "all men" and that Christ has returned to earth. This will unify them together as the world church under Maitreya, the False Prophet. This will likely usher in the Tribulation. If you would like an explanation of what the symbols in Maitreya's logo mean in the occult, go here.
(6) The "Overshadowing" Of Maitreya Will Be A "Pentecostal Experience For All" by Benjamin Creme, Share International F.A.Q.,1999
"On the Day of Declaration, I submit, everyone -- even the fundamentalists -- will know, through the overshadowing of the minds of all humanity -- a Pentecostal experience for all -- that Maitreya is the Christ."
(7) Some Old And Newer Pictures Of Maitreya
The "false prophet"?
(8) Kenya Times Report: Maitreya, Akatsa & Bonnke © Kenya Times. First published in the Kenya Times, 22 June 1988.
"About 6,000 worshippers at Muslim Village, Kawangware, Nairobi, (Kenya) believe they saw Jesus Christ, in broad daylight last week."
To read these articles go to: http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/fprophets.html and scroll down about half way till you see that name...
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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