barrykind
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Sen. Evan Bayh on Fox News Sunday
Sunday, July 07, 2002
Following is a transcripted excerpt from Fox News Sunday, Jyly 7, 2002.
TONY SNOW, FOX NEWS: Well, are Arab countries friends or foes in the war on terror? Our first guest spent some time last week in Egypt, Lebanon and Syria, meeting with heads of state in all three countries. Indiana Senator Evan Bayh is a member of the Select Committee on Intelligence, and he joins us now.
Let me first talk about Syria, which is an interesting case. Syria is a nation on the international terror list by the State Department, and yet we're regarding Syria as an ally in the war on terror. How is that possible?
SEN. EVAN BAYH (D-Ind.): Well, we have a difference of opinion over Hezbollah, basically. They have been cooperative in some very interesting ways and helpful ways in tackling Al Qaida, which is a Sunni-based group. They have their own history with fighting Sunni extremism in Syria.
But with regard to Hezbollah, while we regard them as an international terrorist organization, Syria looks at them as a legitimate resistance movement within Lebanon. So that's basically the reason for the difference of opinion.
SNOW: Well, it's a resistance movement responsible for the killing of at least 260 Americans.
BAYH: I don't agree with them. As a matter of fact, I said to President Assad, I said, "Three leaders of Hezbollah are wanted for murder of Americans." So clearly, we have a much different view of Hezbollah than do they.
SNOW: Well, that seems to be a significant difference. The United States continues saying, "Well, we hope you change your mind." What leverage do we have right now on Syria?
BAYH: Well, the Syrian economy is basically in the tank. And they realize that to be a part of the international economy, they're going to need our help and cooperation. There are other issues that they are worried about, domestic stability, that sort of thing. It's a new regime. There are some undercurrents there. So we do have leverage with them.
They're interested in building, Tony, upon the relationship we've recently established. And it can be mutually beneficial, but they have to get their minds right with regard to Hezbollah. And I think that, if we work with them, there is some possibility that we could make some progress, even on that front. Although, we shouldn't be naive. These are some tough guys, and the old guard is still around Assad, and they are unreconstructed terror supporters.
SNOW: Bashar Assad is the son of Hafez Assad, the former dictator. The son is also a dictator. But what you're saying is the old guard from his father's time is still around.
That being the case -- his father was not friendly to the United States -- why should we trust him?
BAYH: Well, we shouldn't trust them to do anything but operate in their own selfish best interests. And there is a case to be made that, when it comes to working particularly against Al Qaida and Sunni extremism -- they've had their own domestic problems...
SNOW: So we've got a common enemy there, and they're perfectly willing to help us get these guys?
BAYH: Correct.
SNOW: And are they giving us intelligence that's worthwhile?
BAYH: Yes, they are.
SNOW: And are they helping us track down people? Are they not only providing intelligence but actually putting feet on the ground?
BAYH: I can't get into details, as you can appreciate. But let's just say that they have provided assistance to us that has been tangibly very helpful to us in ways that I hope that we can build upon. So they have -- it's been actually quite remarkable.
SNOW: You also went to Lebanon. Now, Lebanon is basically a puppet regime of Syria, correct?
BAYH: Correct.
SNOW: There was an interesting quote from the Lebanese president. I'm going to read part of it. It was in a press release on July 3rd. He was complaining about the president's proposal for the Middle East, especially with regard to Yasser Arafat. He said, "It was not a plan of action because it did not contain any imminent solutions for the explosive situation."
Now, this is a guy who, in his own Bekaa Valley, is housing a nest of terror organizations. Why on earth should we, should you, be taking this sort of guff from this kind of a guy?
BAYH: Well, we shouldn't. They basically don't have control over large parts of their own country. And that's one of the reasons Hezbollah has flourished over the years. In many parts of Lebanon, Hezbollah is the principle provider of health services, other social services, because the central government just isn't there, doesn't have control. They do condone these terror camps in the Bekaa Valley.
There are also, Tony, even more difficult, some urban-based terror centers there, where, not only Hezbollah operatives transit through, but others internationally come through, much like Afghanistan. This is a significant concern to us.
And here, again, is where the Syrian connection can be helpful. If we can get their minds right, in expanding their cooperation with us, perhaps we can deal with some of these camps.
SNOW: If those camps are not dealt with, and if Hezbollah, as it has been doing in recent months, starts lobbing weapons, armaments into northern Israel, would we condone Israel going ahead and taking retaliatory action strikes, including in the Bekaa Valley?
BAYH: I think the nation of Israel has the same right as any country to defend themselves. And there's this dispute, although I think it's a pretext really, over the Chebaa Farms area. If you've been there, there is not really much to dispute.
SNOW: Right.
BAYH: But I think they're using it as an excuse to continue hostile activities against the Israelis. And if that were to continue or to escalate, of course the Israelis would have a right to take actions to protect themselves.
SNOW: The Chebaa Farms area is kind of a hilly patch of land. There's not much there. It's disputed because Israel seized it in 1967. The Lebanese say it's theirs, correct?
BAYH: The Israelis drew the border there according to the United Nations' boundaries. So -- and the U.N. has not ever been known to be too hostile to the interests of the Lebanese.
SNOW: Let's go to Egypt. There's a story today, a report that, as a matter of fact, the fellow who did the shooting at Los Angeles International Airport may have had connections with Islamic -- Egyptian Islamic Jihad.
How big a problem does Egypt right now have with Al Qaida?
BAYH: Egypt is probably the most helpful country in the entire Middle East, when it comes to fighting this war. So they have a big problem --you mean a problem in terms of helping us fighting them, or a problem domestically with Al Qaida?
SNOW: Problem domestically.
BAYH: Egypt has done a pretty good job of eliminating most of the domestic terrorist threats. They still have a presence of the Muslim Brotherhood there. But that has been contained at a fairly low level. So Al Qaida is not really much of a problem for them at this time.
SNOW: In your opinion, has Egypt emerged as the principle Arab player right now in the war on terror?
BAYH: Yes, they really are, in terms of helping us from a security standpoint. And also being the most populous country there in the Middle East, they're looked to by the others in terms of their leadership.
So Egypt is very pivotal to us, and the stability of Mubarak's regime is of vital importance to the United States.
SNOW: Compare and contrast them with the Saudis.
BAYH: Well, the Saudis, of course, are the money guys. But the Egyptians go a long way beyond that in terms of intelligence capabilities, leadership in terms of public opinion, a whole variety of things -- cultural center, that sort of thing.
So the Saudis are important, but when it comes to fighting the war on terror, I think the Egyptians are even more important.
SNOW: I'm sure you got an earful about the Israeli-Palestinian situation. It appears that Yasser Arafat's hold is weakening. He tried to replace his police chief, and now a number of the people who serve under that old chief are refusing to go along with Arafat.
Is it your sense that Arafat is getting weaker?
BAYH: Yes, he's clearly getting weaker. And there's no love lost for him in any of the capitals around the Middle East. I think they recognize he's a flawed leader as well.
Their principle objection to us is -- and they won't say it for the public record -- but, look, if you establish the precedent of the United States basically insisting upon regime change, what is the precedent that sets for some of the rest of us? That's, I think, below the surface, what they're concerned about.
SNOW: Aren't they also afraid of democracy? None of them are democracies.
BAYH: Well, democracy is a rare form of government around the world and almost unknown in the Middle East, with the exception of Israel. So yes, they've concerned about that.
And it puts us in an ironic position here in the short term, Tony, of wanting to promote democracy through election but, at the same time, realizing that the Palestinians, in all likelihood, will elect Yasser Arafat in January. So in the short run, that presents us with something of a dilemma.
SNOW: The New York Times had a report Friday about the potential battle plans with Iraq. We've heard these stories before.
SNOW: What is your sense of what the Arab leaders really think about American action against Iraq? Will they badmouth it publicly and support it privately?
BAYH: They will badmouth it publicly, but privately there is no love lost for this guy. And to kind of cut to the bottom line, Tony, if we could find a quiet way to get rid of him, I think that they would, you know, privately applaud. But publicly, with their own street, so to speak, they can't afford to be seen as being a supporter of that kind of action.
SNOW: Should the president seek a congressional resolution of support before taking any action against Iraq?
BAYH: I think he should. I think he'd find strong bipartisan support in the Congress if he did.
SNOW: Should it be a general thing, not timed to any particular action? Should he do it sooner rather than later? Would Congress be willing to give him that kind of a blank check?
BAYH: I think Congress would provide a great deal of latitude, but my advice to the president would be to wait until the plans have crystallized a little bit, he can give us a little bit more of a concrete idea. Then I think he'll get the kind of support that he needs to move forward.
SNOW: The assassination of Hajji Abdul Kadir has a lot of people worried about stability in Afghanistan. Is it time for the United States to rethink its policy and put more troops on the ground to try to secure Kabul and the areas around it?
BAYH: I think it is. You know, we went to war to clean this country out, and I don't see why we would take half measures to try and stabilize it, to make sure it doesn't become a protectorate for terrorists once again.
And if all you do is secure the capital and allow instability to fester around the country, I think we're running a real risk that the gains we made during the war could be lost by an insufficient peace.
SNOW: Do you expect Congress to act on that issue sometime soon?
BAYH: Well, I think we'll wait and see what the president has to say. But my own view is, we went to war, we won the war, let's not lose it now. And I think we need to take stronger security steps, and this assassination is just one indication of this is not going to be, you know, quick or easy.
SNOW: All right. Senator Evan Bayh, thanks for joining us this morning.
BAYH: Always a pleasure.
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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