|
Author
|
Topic: IN RE: SALVATION AND BAPTISM
|
Pleasemaranatha
Advanced Member
Member # 5150
|
posted
If a christian witnessed to an unbeliever and then prayed the sinners prayer with them and the unbeliever repented of their sins and accepted Christ Jesus as their Savior....couldn't they get baptised right away in the house in the bath tub in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Why would they have to wait for a church service?
They could always announce what they just did and telephone someone and keep making it known that they are saved until a church service is available. Sometimes conversion happens in the night.
--------------------
My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning. Psalms 130 verse 6
Joyce
Posts: 308 | From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
Lars7
Advanced Member
Member # 4911
|
posted
Baptisim is an inward act of an outward thing....meaning when one is baptised one will go fully underwater signifying there old life....and then coming up cleansed into newness of life. It has no other signifance whatsoever.....The greek word from which baptisim is taken is baptizo....which means to submerge.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Note 4 at Jn. 3:5: Being born of water is not speaking of water baptism as being essential for salvation. People were born again before they were baptized in water (Jn. 20:28 with Rom. 10:9). Cornelius and his household received the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:44-48) as evidenced by the gifts of the Holy Ghost, which Jesus said the world (lost) could not receive (Jn. 14:17) before they were baptized in water. When Peter defended his visit to Cornelius before the church in Jerusalem (Acts 11:1-18), he was trying to prove to the Jewish believers that God had granted salvation to the Gentiles also. He used the fact that they had received the Holy Ghost as proof of their new birth, but he didn't mention water baptism. If the early church had used water baptism to produce salvation, Peter certainly would have been questioned about this.
In 1 Corinthians 1:17, Paul said, "Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel." While in no way discrediting water baptism, Paul stated that it was not the gospel. Some groups today spend much more time preaching water baptism than they do proclaiming the redemptive work of Jesus Christ.
Jesus, Himself, was baptized in water, but it certainly wasn't to produce forgiveness of sins (see note 4 at Mt. 3:11, p. 32; see note 9 at Mk. 16:16, p. 505).
This water could be speaking of the Word of God (Jn. 15:3; Eph. 5:26; Jas. 1:18; 1 Pet. 1:23) or the natural birth of a baby. Verse six might support the water as meaning the natural birth; however, either of these two interpretations are consistent with scripture and do not pose any inconsistencies as would water baptism.
Posts: 49 | From: Ma | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
JAVA
Advanced Member
Member # 4576
|
posted
It is a profession of faith. The OT had plenty O' "baptisms": The parting of the Red sea, Gods chosen passing through and leaving the enemy behind(or in the NT "old man"). The flood of Noahs time. 40 years in the wilderness to cleanse the Iseralites.
So, it is not only NT but NT as well. A representation of becoming clean.
Definition of baptize, Baptize;
To administer the sacrament of baptism to.
To christen ( because a name is given to infants at their baptism); to give a name to; to name.
To sanctify; to consecrate.
![[dance]](graemlins/dance1.gif)
--------------------
JAVA, "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose."
Posts: 147 | From: Columbia South Carolina | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
Some doctrines interpret Romans 6:4,5 as baptism of the Holy Spirit. I am definitely not belittling baptism by immersion, just saying that baptism alone won't get you into heaven.
It's not heresy to believe as I do, just a difference in insight into that particular scripture. You can't say it is water for sure, because it does not say water. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. God doesn't want our entry into heaven to become wrapped up legalism. Keeping our eyes on Jesus is the most important commission for us.
Even Paul, the most profound preacher of all time next to Jesus, rarely baptized by immersion. I think there may be one mention of baptism in the scriptures. "Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel' (1 Corinthians 1:17)."
If you believe it is a command for you, and probably many others along with you, to be baptized by water, it is a command for you.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
|
posted
In comparison to ethics of Christian belief. It is very imperative to put the Salvation Message back into is superiority of Christian Service. Jesus only Commission was that of the gospel. We as believers must obey. I have only found that most Christians (who don't take congruent step and be immediately baptism- will miss out on a true, validated miracle of God. what I believe is called believer's baptisn, but Remember it is Jesus First and all his disciples follow. We do not equate Paul over Jesus, nor Peter over Jesus, nor any person over Jesus at any point of time.
I AM SORRY JESUS DIDN'T ASKED US TO BE BAPTIZED, HE COMMANDED IT TO BE SO AND THERE IS DEFINITELY A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ASKING AND COMMANDING.
fOR AN EXAMPLE- A declarative sentence begins with an implied pronoun and a verb!
Get Up! is a command, but in its implied form it is saying YOU GET UP!
AND KEEPING IN TERMS OF STANDARD WRITTEN SPEECH THE FOLLOWING VERSES ARE COMMANDS
MARK 16:15,16 AND THE BREAKDOWN OF THIS VERSE HAS ONE COMMAND AND TWO FACTS
THE COMMAND IS GO YE ...... ETC
THE TWO CONNECTED FACTS ARE THESE:
JESUS -WHO IS THE HEAD OF THE SALVATION MOVEMENT- SAID THIS:
HE THAT BELIEVETH AND (+) IS BAPTIZED =SHALL BE SAVED
NEGOTARY FACT IS THIS:
HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT = SHALL BE DAMNED.
JOHN 14:15-18 READ IT
When the Human authors who were ispired by the hand of God Almighty place there views in terms of what Jesus said and not the other way around.
Romans 6:4-5 Therefore **(BECAUSE OF ALL THIS**) WE ARE BURIED WITH HIM BY BAPTISM INTO DEATH: THAT LIKE CHRIST (***CHRIST IS THE EXAMPLE***)WAS RAISED UP FROM THE DEAD BY THE GLORY OF THE FATHER, EVEN SO (***COMPARITIVELY SPEAKING***)WE (*MUST*) SHOULD WALK IN THE NEWNESS OF LIFE. FOR IF WE HAVE BEEN PLANTED (BURIED IN THE DIRT) TOGETHER IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS DEATH (VICARIOUSLY ATTONED), WE SHALL BE ALSO IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS RESURRECTION)
THESE VERY VERSES DESCRIBES WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE ARE BAPTIZED. BOTH SPIRITUALLY BY THE HOLY SPIRIT AND CONJOINTLY WITH WATER. ARE THOSE VERSES DESCRIBING THE BORN AGAIN EXPERIENCE TO ITS TRUEST FORM OR ARE THEY HERESY?
YES OR NO!
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Freeman:
Yes, A conclusive act of obedience! So many do not understand obedience and authority.
In this passage of scripture Paul doesn't make baptism a conclusive act of obediece -
Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel' (1 Corinthians 1:17).
quote:
From Freeman-Thank God for those who were willing to "make division" for the sake of the Gospel and following Christ
The devil delights in making division among the body of Christ.
Titus 3:9-11 Do not get involved in foolish discussions about spiritual pedigrees[a] or in quarrels and fights about obedience to Jewish laws. These kinds of things are useless and a waste of time.
If anyone is causing divisions among you, give a first and second warning. After that, have nothing more to do with that person. For people like that have turned away from the truth. They are sinning, and they condemn themselves.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
|
posted
One thing that must be understood that in Jewish Habit Old Testament High Priest went thru a form of baptism called purification process. On the day of reconciliation the High Priest went thru a form of baptism that was further defiNed by John tHe Baptist and Jesus the Messiah. In all regards, JESUS BEING GOD HAS TAKEN THE YOM KIMPOR (THE DAY OF RECOCIALITION) AND MADE IT AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE THAT BELIEVES AND IS BAPTIZED THEN THEIR SHALL BE REMISSIONS OF SIN. IF WE DARE TO MISCONSCREWED THE VERY SPOKEN WORD OF JESUS THEN WE TAINT THE GOSPEL MESSAGE. TAINTNESS IS AN ACT OF SUBLIMAL APOSTACY! REMEMBER EVEN IF THE ANGELS OR ANY MAN WOULD CHANGE ONE HINT OF THE GOSPEL THEN IT IS NOT THE TRUE GOSPEL THEY ARE ANTICHRISTS.
ACCORDING TO THE BOOK OF NUMBER 31:13-20 MOSES AND ELIEAZAR (WHOSE NAME IS REFERING TO GOD, THE PART "ELI" IS A FORM OF ELOHIM AND IN ARAMAIC IT IS MORE SO PRONOUNCE A-ELI A-ELI LA'HAMA SHAB'AKIEN NI= TO MY GOD, TO MY GOD, WHY HAST THOU FORSAKEN ME!)
THE HIGH PRIEST ALWAYS GO THRU PURIFICATION WHICH IS WHAT BAPTISM IS. JESUS IS THE HIGH PRIEST FOR US ( CHECK OUT THE BOOK OF HEBREWS), HE WENT IN THE JORDAN TO BE BAPTIZED BY GOD'S APPOINTED FORERUNNER TO PAVE THE WAY. YOU HAVE TO RECOGNIZED THIS. JESUS HAS ACCORDINGLY SET THE STANDARD. JESUS DIDN'T SAY HE THAT BELIEVED ONLY WOULD BE SAVED, BUT HE THAT BELIEVED AND IS BAPTISED WILL BE SAVED.
BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN REDEEM AND WE RECONGNIZED IT SO, ARE BAPTISED BECAUSE THE HIGH PRIEST PAVED THE TRUE MEANING OF OLD TESTAMENT PURIFICATION. WITHOUT THE SHEDDING OF BLOOD THERE CAN BE NO REMISSIONS OF SIN. THE ENTIRE GODHEAD WAS THERE AT JESUS' PURIFICATION BEFORE THE SLAUGHTER IF YOU WILL.
Melchizidek was the High Priest who annointed Abram the father of Jewish Nation. Now Jesus is said to be the Melchizidek High Priest now approved by the God the Father and the Holy Spirit.
One Covenant Mission in the Old is man trying to be Holy and acceptable thru works with out obedient faith, the Covenant Mission in the New is devine plan of salvation that was made known why the Old Testament Ways could not work with out grace which ultimately is authored by God himself. He didn't come to save the perfect, He came to save that which is lost.
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Freeman
New Member
Member # 4904
|
posted
Yes, A conclusive act of obedience! So many do not understand obedience and authority.
How does a church teach discipleship without baptism in their doctrine?
Jesus commanded: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost":Matthew 28:19
If this had been the attitude of the reformers on issues of the church that were not the Jesus' doctrine, we would still be under the Pope today!
quote:
If you belong to a church that doesn't preach baptism in their doctrine, it is extremely important that someone doesn't come along with their own agenda and try to make division in the church over it. If they are under conviction, they should quietly seek out a church that will perform baptism.
Thank God for those who were willing to "make division" for the sake of the Gospel and following Christ.
Posts: 2 | From: USA | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
|
posted
Baptism is a conclusive act of obedience!
I was not saying that is is OK not to be baptised. I was saying that if you are really born-again, you will do everything in your power to be baptised, because you have come to know Jesus Christ and would do anything for Him because of His great love for us.
Obey --- That is the key to knowing God.
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by David:
In regard to baptism saving us, no it does not save us. It is a blessed privilege on the part of God’s children as a testimony for Him. It is a privilege rather then a command.
"I believe baptism is important, and I have been baptized. But I think we violate the Scriptures when we make baptism the prime requirement for salvation. . . . Paul's central theme was Christ and His saving power. Although he spoke of baptism, he said: 'I thank God that I baptized none of you . . . lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name' (1 Corinthians 1:14-15)."
But, I must say with Paul: 'Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel' (1 Corinthians 1:17)."
Amen.
The Lord has been showing me lately how he is grieved by the division in the church; that is us, the body of Christ. This is one of the devil's mightiest weapons.
Parliament in Canada just voted to make same sex marriage legal in Canada, and it is making major rifts and division among many churches. The devil must be laughing himself silly over this one.
I am certainly not against baptism, but I don't think anyone should feel condemned if they don't have it done. What about that poor bed-ridden person. If that person is under a doctrine that preaches that you are going straight to h**l if you don't have it done, the devil has completely robbed them of their joy and peace. Their prayers will become totally ineffectual.
If you belong to a church that doesn't preach baptism in their doctrine, it is extremely important that someone doesn't come along with their own agenda and try to make division in the church over it. If they are under conviction, they should quietly seek out a church that will perform baptism.
This alone will get you into heaven -
Romans 10:9-11 For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. As the Scriptures tell us, "Anyone who believes in him will not be disappointed."
IP: Logged |
|
|
wparr
Advanced Member
Member # 891
|
posted
When was the New Covenant (Testament) ushered in?
Blood was required to "seal" a covenant.
The New Covenant went into effect when Jesus shed His blood on The Cross - Signed Sealed and Delivered! Not to be changed or ammended.
Jesus taught and proclaimed The Gospel under The Old Covenant, under The Law.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
|
posted
I believe we should be baptized because Jesus asks us to be baptized, and if we love Jesus we should not have a problem doing as He asks. In regard to baptism saving us, no it does not save us. It is a blessed privilege on the part of God’s children as a testimony for Him. It is a privilege rather then a command. I do believe one can be saved without being baptized, but to refuse to be baptized makes one a disobedient believer. And just in my opinion I believe if someone really believes that Jesus is the Son of God and He died for our sins and loves us, then I don’t understand why, if they believe that, they would not want to be baptized in order to please Jesus the one who loves us and the King of Kings who we shall spend eternity with. God knows your heart and if you are truely born-again.
I believe you should find a Bible believing Church and ask the Pastor to baptize you.
"I believe baptism is important, and I have been baptized. But I think we violate the Scriptures when we make baptism the prime requirement for salvation. . . . Paul's central theme was Christ and His saving power. Although he spoke of baptism, he said: 'I thank God that I baptized none of you . . . lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name' (1 Corinthians 1:14-15)."
"Baptism is a conclusive act of obedience and witness to the world that we are Christ's. I believe in it wholeheartedly. To one who has received Christ, baptism is a necessary and meaningful experience. But, I must say with Paul: 'Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel' (1 Corinthians 1:17)."
"We urge immediate and extensive Bible study for all convert. As the Scripture is reviewed, the place of baptism will surely be discovered. If baptism were a requirement for salvation, we would certainly say that. But you couldn't support that knowing, for example, that the thief on the cross had no opportunity for baptism or church membership. Yet on his confession, paradise was secured. Jesus said to him, 'Today shalt thou be with me in paradise' (Luke 23:43)."
The below link has more information on Baptism:
http://www.rbc.org/ds/rd941/rd941.html
http://www.rbc.org/ds/rd941/rd941.html#point3
--------------------
Video Tracts
Christian Media
LiveTracts
Friend Me On Facebook
Evangelism TackleBox
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
|
posted
Unlike our brothers and sisters of the Church of Christ, I believe being BAPTIZED is not required for salvation, BUT, it is an act of obdience to our Lord.
There are sometimes medical conditions that cause a person not to be able to be baptized but alot of preachers will help people who are handicapped and want to be baptized. At our Church a lady in the wheel chair, her husband carried her up the stairs and put her in the water for the preacher, but she was very small. I have know people who are bed-ridden and of course being baptized would be impossible for them.
But no one who is able to be baptized should make a deicision to refuse a command from God to do so.
My grandpa was Church of Christ and they believed that if you got saved and did not get baptized and died that you went to hell. When they go visiting they get the baptism set up just in case someone gets saved and they neeed to run back to the Church that night. I personally like the way other Churches do, where when someone gets saved, you have a meeting with the preacher about what baptism is and why you are doing it. But that is just my thoughts on it.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
|
posted
Remember the people of the O.T. were looking to the first advent of Christ! Here is the kicker,John the Baptist was baptising people way before Jesus ever rose from the dead (JOHN 4) when did the New Testment begin. Does the New Testament begin with the birth of the Messiah or the resurrection of the Messiah!
AND JESUS SAID AND I QUOTE:
MARK 16:15 & 16
And HE said unto them," GO YE INTO ALL THE WORLD, AND PREACH THE GOSPEL TO EVERY CREATURE. HE THAT BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED; BUT HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT SHALL BE DAMNED."
ACTS 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, " REPENT, AND BE BAPTIZED EVERYONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, AND YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST"
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Miguel
Advanced Member
Member # 47
|
posted
Eduardo I like to share my thought with you at this time. Which of the OT saints was baptize in water? The word of God tells us that they are in heaven even some of them where caught up to be with God directly!
--------------------
Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
|
posted
1) Mark 16:15,16; Acts 2:38
If people believe and are not baptized are they saved?
If people are baptized and do not believe are they saved?
2) Did Jesus truly mean to follow his example?
Should Salvation and Baptism be seperate issues? OR Is salvation granted when you believe and are baptized?
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
