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» Christian Message Boards   » Bible Studies   » Israel the Promised Land   » MYTHS AND FACTS SURROUNDING THE CRISIS in ISRAEL

   
Author Topic: MYTHS AND FACTS SURROUNDING THE CRISIS in ISRAEL
yahsway
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Freddy, I was reading your post and you brought up something interesting. The fact that Israel is a richer country than Lebanon.

This is true. My personal opinon is that Lebanon is now caught in the middle because they took the help of the Hezbullies in the form of food, water, shelter, hospitals, ect.. and now their alligence is to them. The Hezbullies knew what they were doing all along. Its bait and switch.

I am surprized and disappointed that Israel did not go after Damasucus first. Cut the hand off that is feeding the beast(the Hezbullies)

But i will say this. It is a true saying that birds of the same feather flock together, this is evident by the 83% of Lebanons population supporting the Hezbullies.

Someone please tell me what war ever faught did not include suffering to the civilian population?
whether by hunger, homelessness, death, ect.. civilians in all wars that I have ever known suffered in some way.

Why didn't the hezbullies just ask their arab neighbors for the money instead of the ammunition to help the people in Lebanon. Immagine what all those rockets cost!

All this is tragic, but I believe the words of Yeshua, that there would be wars, rumors of wars, nation against nation (ethnicity against ethnicity)

There are civilians caught in the middle on both sides.

Israel has the right to defend herself. I for one just believe she should have went after the beasts head first.

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ahar
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
Liberal:

Obsolete. Morally unrestrained; licentious

Obsolete - as in 'does not mean this any more'.

quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:

The Liberal rejects the authority of God's Word.

The Liberal rejects the concept of moral absolutes.

The truth is arbitrary to the Liberal.

Those parts of the Word which are inconvenient to the Liberal are either rejected or reinterpreted.


Wrong wrong wrong. None of those have anything to do with the term liberal. The definition is as I have posted it:
"Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded". The key phrase is 'not limited to' - it does not say that they automatically reject ALL established views. Being a liberal applies to ALL areas of life - surely you can't argue that there are many many things that need changing in this world?

quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:

The social gospel, love your neighbor as you would yourself take precedent for the liberal, over love the Lord thy God with all of your heart, mind, soul.

The liberals are the ones who are laying the foundation for the rise of the AC, and especially the one-world religion. Its arbitrary and far more convenient for all faiths to gather under the broad umbrella and sing kum-bi-ya.

As with all people, there are bad liberals and good liberals. There are as many bad conservatives as there are bad liberals - misunderstanding of scripture is not limited by political view.

There is nothing in the definition of 'liberal' that would suggest that 'Love your neighbour' is put above 'love the lord your god'. There is however, a lot in the psyche of the conservative that drives the convienient ignorance of 'Love thy Neighbour'. It is the second most important commandment after all (Mark 12 vs 29-31).

To be a christian is to be a radical. Being a radical is a step beyond being a liberal. Being a conservative has no place in Christianity.

--------------------
Cheers

Andy

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Caretaker
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Liberal:

Obsolete. Morally unrestrained; licentious


The Liberal rejects the authority of God's Word.

The Liberal rejects the concept of moral absolutes.

The truth is arbitrary to the Liberal.

Those parts of the Word which are inconvenient to the Liberal are either rejected or reinterpreted.

The social gospel, love your neighbor as you would yourself take precedent for the liberal, over love the Lord thy God with all of your heart, mind, soul.

The liberals are the ones who are laying the foundation for the rise of the AC, and especially the one-world religion. Its arbitrary and far more convenient for all faiths to gather under the broad umbrella and sing kum-bi-ya.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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ahar
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
I know what Jesus WILL do:
<SNIP>

And se we come back to the 'end times' as a justification and answer for everything. Don't think I've ever seen you quote anything in our discussions on Israel about the love we should show to our neighbours, that we should love our enemies and turn the other cheek - just death, destruction and terrible things in armageddon.

AND you haven't responded to my point about being a liberal, but instead tried to use it again as an insult!

lib·er·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.

Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.
Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation.
Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education.

Archaic. Permissible or appropriate for a person of free birth; befitting a lady or gentleman.
Obsolete. Morally unrestrained; licentious.

n.
A person with liberal ideas or opinions.
Liberal A member of a Liberal political party.


Christianity does not conform to the tradition views of society - it is liberal, radical even. Where else in society are you asked to love your enemy and to give up all that you have for others. How does the rehetoric of conservative politics, wanting to keep our wealth to ourselves and preaching vengance, fit with the teaching of Jesus.

Matthew 5 vs 44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

--------------------
Cheers

Andy

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Caretaker
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Reuters News Agency has announced it is cutting from its payroll a freelance photographer who altered a photograph that showed that the results of an Israeli bombing were far worse than in reality.

An American news site caught the fake when it noticed that the billows of smoke in the photo showed a repetitious pattern. However, the news agency said that the photographer, Adnan Hajj, said the image was changed after he tried "to remove dust marks and that he made mistakes due to the bad lighting conditions he was working under."

Hajj also photographed images of a dead child in the explosion in the village of Kana last week. Several private web sites have questioned the veracity of the pictures.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Caretaker
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I know what Jesus WILL do:

Zech. 14:
1: Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2: For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3: Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4: And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.


What would Jesus do with rabid dogs that indiscrimanantly murder women and children?

What did Jesus do with the money changers in the temple?

Liberal tolerance from Jesus Christ:

Rev. 19:
11: And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12: His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13: And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14: And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15: And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16: And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17: And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18: That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19: And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20: And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21: And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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ahar
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
Couirse you and Andy seem to have an intrinsic prejudice against Israel. Course its been subtle indoctrination for a long time with the liberal media.

[

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

It wouldn't be so funny if caretaker wasn't just repeating what he had read on other websites reinforcing his currently held views about Israel.

Caretaker - you have consistently avoided debating the issues at hand and have instead relied on accusing me (and lately freddy) of anti-israel bias with no basis. Give me a shout when you're ready to talk properly.

I love the way that you use liberial as a term of insult. I'm happy to be called a liberial - in fact, I'd rather be a radical. Christianity is NOT a conservative religion - it is a radical one. Jesus wasn't a conservative, he was a radical - he broke taboos, moved against the religious orthadoxy of the day and espoused views that seemed completely against the views of the establishment of the day. Answer me this caretaker - when looking at what is happening in Israel and Lebanon today, what do you think Jesus would do?????

--------------------
Cheers

Andy

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freddy05
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And one final note Caretaker... I havenŽt noticed anyone say a single thing supporting or positive about Hizbullah.

My heart goes out to all those suffering the Middle East. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Atheists, and others. The photos IŽve seen of the Israeli suffering (yes, even on CNN) are heartbreaking.

But the fact remains, Israel is a rich country and Lebanon is not. Israel has better organized plans for evacuation, safety, and defense. They have the power. And most of what I read on these boards is broad unconditional support for the "powerful side" and little or no regard for the most helpless caught in the middle. Which is why my posts focus more on the suffering in Lebanon.

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freddy05
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Oh, for those that are curious about my gambling sin, the poker game I was in... we only paid $2 each and then used pasta noodles to bet with. I walked away up $4 after 3 great hours of socializing and fellowship.
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freddy05
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:

Course you and Andy seem to have an intrinsic prejudice against Israel. Course its been subtle indoctrination for a long time with the liberal media.

I find that comment a bit humorous, at least in regards to my predjudice. I have visited Israel twice in my life and had great experiences. I played poker the other night, and one at the table was a full blooded recently got out of the army Israeli. We had a great time. And for lunch yesterday I had a great Falafel Shwarma at an Israeli restaraunt that had an Israeli flag on the outside and lots of Israeli photos and information on the inside.

Looks like the box you put me in was wrong [Wink]

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Caretaker
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War Crimes

Hizbullah must immediately stop firing rockets into civilian areas in Israel, Human Rights Watch said Saturday.

"Lobbing rockets blindly into civilian areas is without doubt a war crime," said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. "Nothing can justify this assault on the most fundamental standards for sparing civilians the hazards of war."

"Most of the attacks appear to have been directed at civilian areas and have hit pedestrians, hospitals, schools, homes and businesses," the humanitarian organization's website stated.

Since July 12, when Hizbullah captured two IDF soldiers and killed eight, Human Rights Watch researchers have been documenting the war's impact on civilians in Israel and Lebanon, interviewing the witnesses and survivors of attacks, as well as doctors, emergency workers, police, military and government officials.

"Hizbullah must stop using the excuse of Israeli misconduct to justify its own," said Roth.

The organization's Web site recognized that northern Israel had come to a virtual standstill because of Hizbullah's rockets, which were "exacting an enormous human and economic toll."

"Under international humanitarian law - also known as the laws of war - parties to an armed conflict must not make the civilian population the object of attack, or fire indiscriminately into civilian areas. Nor can they launch attacks that they know will cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects that exceeds the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated. Such attacks constitute war crimes," the site explained.

"Several medical and educational institutes have sustained damage from Katyusha attacks." Human Rights Watch researchers visited hospitals in Nahariya and Safed after they were hit.

At Nahariya Hospital, rockets had been landing near the hospital since July 12, a hospital spokesperson said. "There are no military bases around here; nothing military at all," he said. "I believe they know perfectly well they are firing at a hospital."

"In the absence of troops or military assets inside, hospitals must never be attacked," Human Rights Watch said. "Deliberately attacking them is a war crime."

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Caretaker
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I find the photo of the man looking at the leaflet interesting.

If a foreign power informed me and my family that we could be bombed in a few days, without a doubt I would pack up my family and get in my air conditioned SUV, drive down the 6 lane insterstate after filling up the car with $50 of gas (my how those prices are high! Poor me [Frown] ) Then IŽd stop at McDonalds for a quick meal. 5 hours later weŽd be in nice safe rural area. WeŽd check in to our comfy little $79.95 a night hotel and enjoy Foxnews and re-runs of Law and Order SVU for the next few weeks until the crisis is resolved. Fortunaley for me, I still have 2 weeks of paid vacation, plus the extra 4 days I rolled over from last year!

IŽve never been to Lebanon, but I canŽt imagine why people there just donŽt do the same!! Seems pretty obvious to me!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

1,500,000 Israelis did not get the leaflets, just the rockets and bombs, and are seeking shelter where they can. Couirse you and Andy seem to have an intrinsic prejudice against Israel. Course its been subtle indoctrination for a long time with the liberal media.

perspective

You'd hardly know that all of Israel is under siege and that entire cities like Haifa are near desolate. The networks would rather you stay tuned to their pictures from Lebanon. According to ABC TV, CNN and other "Friends of Hizbullah", never mind who started this, and forget the million and a half Israelis who've been made homeless.

As usual, NPR Radio is serving as propaganda minister for terror and, also as usual, Israel is at war with the press.

Or rather, the press is at war with Israel.

Any mention of the 150 bombs that were falling on Israel from day to night? Hardly. What about the thousands of Israelis wounded in flesh and in spirit - meaning shell-shocked today and perhaps for the rest of their lives? No, there's no time for this. Forget Haifa's Rambam Hospital, where beds are filled to overflowing with wounded Israelis.

CNN would also like the world to forget the Arab bombs that fell on Nahariya Hospital and wiped out the entire ophthalmology ward. No footage here, either, except for Israeli journalist David Bedein crying out for some proportionate coverage. The pictures from Lebanon are better, much better than pictures from Meron, Israel, where seven-year-old Omer Pesachov was murdered along with his grandmother as the result of Hizbullah missiles.

Is Qana another hoax and blood libel, as were the Mohammad Al-Dura caper and the "massacre" in Jenin? We have reason to be suspicious. Perhaps we have been manipulated once again (and once too often) by a news media that uses crooked words and false pictures to further bloody the Jewish State.

But leave it to the New York Times to cynically portray itself as dispassionate and neutral. On July 27, it ran a story - "Tide of Arab Opinion Turns to Support for Hizbullah" - that subtly, as subtle as a snake, makes the argument that Israel is at fault for failing to make friends and influence people.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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freddy05
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I find the photo of the man looking at the leaflet interesting.

If a foreign power informed me and my family that we could be bombed in a few days, without a doubt I would pack up my family and get in my air conditioned SUV, drive down the 6 lane insterstate after filling up the car with $50 of gas (my how those prices are high! Poor me [Frown] ) Then IŽd stop at McDonalds for a quick meal. 5 hours later weŽd be in nice safe rural area. WeŽd check in to our comfy little $79.95 a night hotel and enjoy Foxnews and re-runs of Law and Order SVU for the next few weeks until the crisis is resolved. Fortunaley for me, I still have 2 weeks of paid vacation, plus the extra 4 days I rolled over from last year!

IŽve never been to Lebanon, but I canŽt imagine why people there just donŽt do the same!! Seems pretty obvious to me!

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KnowHim
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Yes good post. People need to know the truth about what is going on.

Plow on, plow on...
David

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NLP
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Great Post!!! [clap2]
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helpforhomeschoolers
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MYTHS AND FACTS SURROUNDING THE CRISIS

Myth - "Israel's response is disproportionate."

Fact - The definition of a "disproportionate" response is a subjective one. The question that could be asked of any other country in the world is simply: "What would you do in the same situation?" When protecting its citizens, exercising the right to self-defense and responding to missile attacks over a recognized border, most countries would respond in a similar manner. After all, how many Israelis need to die before the world believes that Israeli responses are proportionate?

Any civilian casualties in a conflict are, of course, tragic and regrettable. Civilians on both sides are suffering. However, Israeli air strikes on Lebanon are not intended to kill civilians, unlike the hundreds of Hezbollah missiles that are targeted specifically at Israeli civilians who have been forced into bomb shelters for their own safety. Israel has even dropped leaflets on Beirut suburbs calling on civilians to stay away from Hezbollah strongholds to avoid being caught up in the fighting.

Israel has also been criticized for targeting Lebanese infrastructure such as the Beirut airport. However, it is also interesting to note what has not been targeted. For example, while the airport runway was bombed, other vital installations such as the control tower were left untouched and Lebanese civilian airliners were allowed to fly to safety. Transport hubs and bridges have been targeted in order to prevent Hezbollah moving the kidnapped Israeli soldiers deeper into Lebanon and possibly even as far as Iran, as well as to prevent the terrorist organization being re-supplied with arms from Iran and elsewhere.

Many of Hezbollah's facilities and missile launch sites are located near residential areas, such as the suburbs of southern Beirut. Terrorists hide within the civilian population and use this population as a shield. Israel's priority is to strike at the Hezbollah terrorist infrastructure that has been allowed to develop in Lebanon.

Israel has, so far, avoided initiating a major ground offensive into Lebanese territory and has barely used a fraction of the firepower available to the IDF.

Myth - "Lebanon bears no responsibility for the actions of Hezbollah."

Fact - UN Security Council Resolution 1559 of September 2004, which referred back to Resolution 425, called "upon all remaining foreign forces to withdraw from Lebanon"; "for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias"; and supported "the extension of the control of the Government of Lebanon over all Lebanese territory".

Syria eventually complied with 1559 and removed its occupying forces. However, the Lebanese government has not disarmed Hezbollah nor has it sent its armed forces to secure southern Lebanon and the border with Israel.

In addition, Hezbollah is actually part of the Lebanese government, which contains two Hezbollah members in the Cabinet. The Lebanese government, therefore, cannot abstain from responsibility for the actions of a part of its own leadership.

Myth - "Hezbollah is an indigenous Lebanese 'resistance' organization."

Fact - According to the Council on Foreign Relations, the Hezbollah:

is a Lebanese umbrella organization of radical Islamic Shiite groups and organizations. It opposes the West, seeks to create a Muslim fundamentalist state modeled on Iran, and is a bitter foe of Israel. Hezbollah, whose name means "party of God," is a terrorist group believed responsible for nearly 200 attacks since 1982 that have killed more than 800 people.

Hezbollah and its affiliates have planned or been linked to a lengthy series of terrorist attacks against the United States, Israel, and other Western targets. These attacks include:

a series of kidnappings of Westerners in Lebanon, including several Americans, in the 1980s;
the suicide truck bombings that killed more than 200 U.S. Marines at their barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, in 1983;
the 1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847, which featured the famous footage of the plane's pilot leaning out of the cockpit with a gun to his head;
and two major 1990s attacks on Jewish targets in Argentina - the 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy (killing twenty-nine) and the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center (killing ninety-five).
In addition, Hezbollah is sponsored, funded and armed by Iran and Syria who use the organization as a proxy to fight Israel and to destabilize the region. Hezbollah is designated as a Foreign Terrorist Organization by the US State Department.

Myth - "Outside actors such as Iran are not fuelling the crisis."


Fact - A number of analysts have suggested that the timing of the Hezbollah operation is no coincidence, occurring just prior to the G8 Summit in St. Petersburg. The G8 was expected to concentrate heavily on Iran's refusal to comply with demands to curtail its nuclear program. A wider Mideast crisis, provoked by Iran's Hezbollah proxies, has now moved to the top of the G8 agenda, thus relieving some of the pressure on Iran.

In addition, Iranian fingerprints are to be found in the current conflict. The Katyusha missiles that are currently raining down on the north of Israel are supplied by Iran. An Israeli Naval vessel was also struck by an Iranian-made C802 missile, killing four sailors.

Myth - "Israel continues to occupy Lebanese land, specifically the Shebaa Farms area."

Fact - On May 24, 2000, Israel completed the unilateral withdrawal of all IDF forces from southern Lebanon, in accordance with Israeli government decisions and UN Security Council Resolution 425, ending an 18-year presence there.

On June 18, 2000, the UN Security Council endorsed the Secretary-General's conclusion that, as of 16 June, Israel had withdrawn its forces from Lebanon in accordance with Resolution 425.

As explained by Israel's Foreign Ministry, the Shebaa Farms area is not, and should not be, considered disputed territory - its status was clarified by a number of United Nations statements following the withdrawal of Israel forces from Lebanon in May 2000.

The United Nations views the Shebaa Farms area as Syrian territory. Therefore, UN Security Council Resolution 425 - which concerns Lebanon - does not require Israel to withdraw from this area.

While Lebanon claims to be the owner of the Shebaa Farms area, the UN has encouraged the Lebanese and Syrians to negotiate between themselves as to who is the rightful owner. If Syria were to cede ownership of the area to Lebanon, then it is probable that Israel and the UN would then reconsider the status of the territory. In the meantime, the issue of the Shebaa Farms is used simply as an excuse for the Hezbollah to maintain itself as an armed force in the region.

Myth - "Arab prisoners held in Israeli jails were kidnapped from Lebanese soil and should be released."

Some Lebanese and other Arab spokespeople have defended Hezbollah's actions as a legitimate form of "resistance" aimed at securing the release of Lebanese prisoners held in Israeli jails from the period of Israel's presence in its southern Lebanon security zone.

Fact - The prisoner whom Hezbollah is demanding, above all others, be released, is Samir Kuntar, jailed in Israel since a 1979 attack in the northern Israeli town of Nahariyah, in which he entered an apartment and murdered three family members and an Israeli police officer.

Kuntar is quite simply a terrorist and a murderer who committed a terrible atrocity on Israeli soil. Those prisoners held in Israeli jails captured during Israel's stay in southern Lebanon are, likewise, held for terrorist offences and due to the inherent risk that they will return to their previous activities.


 -  -

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