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Topic: For the first time in 2000 years.....
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AMH
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posted
yahsway,
I am sorry that you feel that way. But I will answer still.
The Jews were very much reluctant to return to the land. (Won’t you look at the record? Just a cursory reading of the small book Esther would belie the fact that many more Jews stayed put when the call to return went out then in fact returned. They never returned as God commanded, only a remnant. What do you think the original posting that opened this particular thread is about?) From a prophetic stand point it is very important to realize that Israel was in disobedience concerning the return. But you reject this elementary fact out of hand so how can I tell you the application of the prophecies concerning it?
I apologize for contradicting you again but we cannot place anymore or less weight on what Jesus said as opposed to what Paul said. The Bible says that all scripture is given, it is all God’s word, no more and no less, (and this must also include the Old Testament).
I did not say that you are in modern Judaism but that you are sympathetic to it. Are you denying your sympathies? Are you going to surprise me and say that you are not?
If we are to part yahsway then I want to make it clear that your perception of my meaning when I said “this yahweh” is correct. Whether I said “this yahweh” or “that yahweh” makes no difference. You see, God is a Spirit and those that worship Him must do so in spirit and in truth. If we leave out one or both, (spirit/truth) then our worship is in vain. There are many false “yahwehs” and many more false “yeshuas”. I only have so much time in this life so I must spend wisely.
If it must be then good-bye yahsway,
AMH
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yahsway
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AMH, You are preaching to the choir. I do not follow Judaism. They do not believe or love Yeshua Ha Maschich.
But I do know that Yahwehs Laws are good and holy just like Paul said. And I know as you should to that it is circumcized HEART that Yahweh is after. If your heart is in the right place, and you love Yeshua your Savior, then why would you NOT want to walk as He walked and adhere to the 10 commandments? Not for salvation but as a way to walk with God and your fellow man.
I never once implied that I was sympathetic to "Modern" Judaisim. But I do know that Salvation is from the Jews (Yeshua being a Jew from the tribe of Judah). And I do not "boast" against them, like Paul said we should not. Salvation is to the Jew First and then the Gentile. Your post is no suprize as it speaks volumes to me of how you feel about the Jewish people. Not much unlike Martin Luthur and a few others who claimed to be followers of Yeshua.
And i do put more weight to what Yeshua said than I do what Paul said.
For the first 60 years the first Christian were all Jewish believers.
And apparantly you do not read the scriptures that speak of Yeshuas return and 1000 year reign on earth.
And whats with the Jews "relunctantly" returning to their land after the babylonian captivity? Did you read the scriptures on this?
And no one Jew or gentile can fulfill the scripture, only Yeshua. The Jews did not recognize Him when He came even though the Talmud, the Torah/Tenach said He would First come as Messiah Ben Joseph(the suffering servant) and secondly as Messiah Ben David (The King).
So what code of conduct do you follow? What standards do you, if you are a believer in Yeshua,follow? Since you believe the 10 commandments are "done away" with, do you just do what is right in your own eyes, do you follow man-made doctrines and tradtions? Are you an advocate for taking the 10 commandments out of schools and out of public places?
Scripture says that Yeshua will return and will RULE with a ROD of Iron. What do you suppose this means?
And one more ?. Are you possibly from the Church of Christ or Presbyterian? Who has infiltrated your mind?
I am a born again believe in Yeshua. I believe in His Holy word and His laws. I believe that He is God in the flesh, I believe He taught the law as it was origionally intended for it to be used, not like the Pharisees and Sadusees whom He rebuked. I believe the law is good and holy and to be used "properly" as Paul admonished. I believe Yeshua is returning as Messiah Ben David, that His Father has promised Him a Kingdom with kings and priests. I believe that not one jot or titl will pass away from the law until this earth and heaven passes away.
I believe we should pray for the peace of Jerusalem as commanded. And I believe all Israel will be saved when they say Blessed is He who comes in the Name of Yahweh the Lord.
Notice what Yeshua said, He said O Jerusalem, Jerusalem you shall not see me again UNTIL you say..... It does not imply they will see Him before they say this, its not until they say this. But I am afraid with an attitude like yours, it will be hard to reach them to be able to say this.
Well, Shalom my friend, I can tell there is no fruit in this conversation as we each must be convinced in our own mind about the 10 commandments. May THE Lord bless you and keep you, may he make His face shine upon you, May He be gracious to you and grant you Peace.
In the name of Yeshua or Messiah the Prince of Peace, Shalom
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AMH
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yahsway,
Do you know where your Pharisee friends came from? Do you know how they came to power? Do you know where they went?
When the Jews reluctantly returned to the Land from their Babylonian captivity there was a power void as the nation was left without a physical king and the priesthood was severely weakened. The Pharisees filled this void and it is interesting how they captured the nation. They gained control of the minds of the people by gaining control of the education system through the infiltration of the existing religious apparatus. This was purely a usurpation of authority as they had no legitimate right to the political power that they wielded. And what they taught to the people was religious propaganda for the sole purpose of remaining in power. It is interesting to note that Jesus said that when the Pharisees sat in the seat of Moses that they should be listened to but certainly they were not to be follow otherwise. That is because they were hypocrites.
The people of Jesus’ day believed that the Messiah was coming to set up an earthly kingdom sitting on an earthly throne. They were brainwashed by their teachers the Pharisees. Take a look at the disciples of Jesus. They were very much interested in the earthly kingdom that you describe. That is because they too were infected by the leaven of the Pharisees.
Now you have a problem. You are sympathetic to modern Judaism. Your problem is caused by the fact that modern Judaism has a problem. Modern Judaism is totally incapable of fulfilling any scripture. They can’t do sacrifices, they can’t run their country, and they can’t even keep the Ten Commandments. So what are they suppose to do? Infiltrate. But what are they suppose to infiltrate? The minds of sympathetic people. Christians are naturally sympathetic. They did this in the days of the Apostle Paul so it is nothing new. They caused him much work that would have otherwise not been necessary. It was all so easy. They just followed behind Paul who was trail blazing and when he left they would begin their work. When Paul returned he found a bunch of circumcised former Christians. So he had to start all over from the beginning and teach them once again.
There is a caveat to all of this. Paul pronounced a curse on anyone who would dare preach another gospel, much like the curse on them that have broken the Ten Commandments. The difference is that there is a remedy for the breaking of the Ten Commandments.
AMH
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AMH
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yahsway,
Do you know where your Pharisee friends came from? Do you know how they came to power? Do you know where they went?
When the Jews reluctantly returned to the Land from their Babylonian captivity there was a power void as the nation was left without a physical king and the priesthood was severely weakened. The Pharisees filled this void and it is interesting how they captured the nation. They gained control of the minds of the people by gaining control of the education system through the infiltration of the existing religious apparatus. This was purely a usurpation of authority as they had no legitimate right to the political power that they wielded. And what they taught to the people was religious propaganda for the sole purpose of remaining in power. It is interesting to note that Jesus said that when the Pharisees sat in the seat of Moses that they should be listened to but certainly they were not to be follow otherwise. That is because they were hypocrites.
The people of Jesus’ day believed that the Messiah was coming to set up an earthly kingdom sitting on an earthly throne. They were brainwashed by their teachers the Pharisees. Take a look at the disciples of Jesus. They were very much interested in the earthly kingdom that you describe. That is because they too were infected by the leaven of the Pharisees.
Now you have a problem. You are sympathetic to modern Judaism. Your problem is caused by the fact that modern Judaism has a problem. Modern Judaism is totally incapable of fulfilling any scripture. They can’t do sacrifices, they can’t run their country, and they can’t even keep the Ten Commandments. So what are they suppose to do? Infiltrate. But what are they suppose to infiltrate? The minds of sympathetic people. Christians are naturally sympathetic. They did this in the days of the Apostle Paul so it is nothing new. They caused him much work that would have otherwise not been necessary. It was all so easy. They just followed behind Paul who was trail blazing and when he left they would begin their work. When Paul returned he found a bunch of circumcised former Christians. So he had to start all over from the beginning and teach them once again.
There is a caveat to all of this. Paul pronounced a curse on anyone who would dare preach another gospel, much like the curse on them that have broken the Ten Commandments. The difference is that there is a remedy for the breaking of the Ten Commandments.
AMH
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yahsway
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oops, sorry for the double posting!
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yahsway
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One more thing, "this yahweh" is God. Have you ever said Hallaluyah? This is a universal Praise. It means the same in every lanuguage. It means Praise Yah. God is simply a title as there are many "gods".
If you look in the Pslams you will find His name. It is spelled Yah in the psalms. In the Hebrew it is YHVH, as to no vowels in the Hebrew language. But amazingly our King James as well as others spell it Yah.(Yod-Hey-Vav_Hey) Yahweh.
The Jews will not pronuonce His name. They even go so far to spell the title God like this G-d.
But if you read Yeshuas prayer in the garden, He clearly states that he told and taught the disciples Gods name. Yeshua is King of kings. Once again, a title. He is Lord of lords. Once again a title. Yeshua has many names like El Gabor (mighty One, or Mighty God) ImmanuEl(God with us) His very name Yeshua in the Hebrew tongue means Salvation.
So He is not just "this yahweh" but IS Yahweh. Here in the west we call Yeshua ,Jesus, this is the LATIN form of Yeshua.
Just a little lesson on His names. Shalom
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yahsway
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One more thing, "this yahweh" is God. Have you ever said Hallaluyah? This is a universal Praise. It means the same in every lanuguage. It means Praise Yah. God is simply a title as there are many "gods".
If you look in the Pslams you will find His name. It is spelled Yah in the psalms. In the Hebrew it is YHVH, as to no vowels in the Hebrew language. But amazingly our King James as well as others spell it Yah.(Yod-Hey-Vav_Hey) Yahweh.
The Jews will not pronuonce His name. They even go so far to spell the title God like this G-d.
But if you read Yeshuas prayer in the garden, He clearly states that he told and taught the disciples Gods name. Yeshua is King of kings. Once again, a title. He is Lord of lords. Once again a title. Yeshua has many names like El Gabor (mighty One, or Mighty God) ImmanuEl(God with us) His very name Yeshua in the Hebrew tongue means Salvation.
So He is not just "this yahweh" but IS Yahweh. Here in the west we call Yeshua ,Jesus, this is the LATIN form of Yeshua.
Just a little lesson on His names. Shalom
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yahsway
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AMH, have you read Rev.20? And then 21?
The new heaven and new earth is not until after the 1000 year reign of Christ on this earth when he returns.
After the 1000 year reign, Satan is loosed from his prison for a season to decieve the nations. Read these 2 chapters.
Now go back and re-read what Peter said in II Peter chapter 3.
The Day of the Lord (Yahweh God) not the Day of Yeshua His Christ(annointed One).
Peter gives the assurance of a New INHABITABLE Earth following the destruction of this one. But this one(earth) is NOT destroyed until after the 1000 year reign of Messiah. This is confirmed in Revelations 20 and 21.
When Yeshua returns to set up His Kingdom on this earth for 1000 years, we will rule and reign with Him. And after that, Satan is loosed from his prison to go out to decieve the nations
Then Satan will be cast into the Lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are and then will be tormented day and night FOREVER.
And then there will be the Great White throne of Judgement by Yahweh God. And then the new heaven and new earth will come.
Scripture must line up with scripture. No twisting here. You cannot just pick and choose which scripture you want. Paul sat at the feet of Gamil. He knew the entire scriptures backwards and forwards. The reason His writings were hard for laypeople to understand was because He knew line upon line. The only twisting of scriptures were by those "unlearned" in them and twisted them to suit themselves.
No twisting here. You must use all the scriptures. They interpret themselves.
Yeshua came the first time as the suffering servent. He comes again as the Lion of Judah. He comes to bound up Satan for 1000 years, to rule on this during that 1000 years, then He looses Satan for a season. Then He casts Satan into the lake of fire forever. And then creates the new heaven and earth. And then the New Jerusalem COMES DOWN. Shalom
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AMH
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yahsway,
Do you like to dance yahsway? Some people like to twist the scripture to suit their own purposes. Others do not care for dancing, wresting is their thing. Maybe we should revisit II Peter 3:16? There is something else in II Peter chapter 3 that might be of interest to you. You make mention of this yehwah’s kingdom. During Jesus’ earthly ministry Peter was very interested in an earthly kingdom. In II Peter chapter 3 Peter has come to the conclusion that every earthly thing is going to be dissolved. Then he warns us as to what manner of people we ought to be. Sorry about the kingdom that you speak of. It would seem that its fate is going to be the same as that of the Old Covenant, (the vanishing act thing).
AMH
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yahsway
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AMH, "We are ordered to lead people to Christ".
And how do people "Know" what sin is? What do the scriptures say Sin Is? It says that Sin is Transgression of the law, right?
And, who has sinned? All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, right?
And what IS the Gospel? It is Good news, for though you were yet SINNERS, Transgressors of the Law, Yeshua died to PAY THE PRICE of the Ordiance of the law. What were the ordiances of the Law? That if you broke just one of the commandments, you would be stoned to death. But now you have Life thru Him, but this does not mean you trample on that grace and life. The law still stands. And if you die without Yeshua, you will be judged by that law.
But remember, Yeshua said, if we teach that the law is done away with, we will be called LEAST in the Kingdom. He did not say we would be outside the kingdom, but would be called least.
If you notice in scripture, Acts 23, Paul doesnt say I WAS a Pharisee, but "I am a Pharisee".
Paul, in the book of Romans, made it clear that there is NO SIN where there is NO LAW (Romans 5:13)
Therefore, the only SINS that we will be held accountable for by Yahweh God are viloations of His law. Thats why the 10 commandments could not be done away with, becuase if they were, then there are no sins for anyone to repent of and see their need for a Savior.
Some might point out that we are not under the Law, but rather under grace, and faith. While this iS true regarding our SALVATION, Paul and James make it clear that we establish the Law with our Faith.
Furthur, we cannot live and work togethere without standards and laws, so does it make sense that because we have been saved by grace that we will make the choice to live under standards and laws made by men-whether those men be secular humanists, Catholics, Baptists or Jews? Should we abide by the laws of mere men rather than by the Standards and laws handed down by the Holy One of Israel?
What is the basis of Yahwehs standards and laws?
Is it the 10 commandments which He spoke to our
forefathers at Mt. Siani, and later engraved with His own finger in stone? He outlined His standards not only to Moses, but to all those whom He spoke His word from Genesis to Revelation. These standards were not given to "punish" people, but to give them the opportunity to be the happiest, healthiest, and wealthiest people on earth.
Did Yeshua keep the laws of His Father, the 10 commandments?if so, then why should we not as a way to live in harmony with the Father and our fellowman.
I dont know if you have ever watched "Way of the Master" on sky angel ot possibly TBN. But the man who hosts it is Ray Comfort? I think this is his name, anyway, he show us how, as christians, we can win souls who are lost and without Yeshua. And he uses the 10 Commandments. If you get a chance, go to the web site, way of the master. You see, this is what we should be using when we witness to a non-believer. If the 10 commandments are "done away with" why use them to show people that they are sinners in need of a Savior?
Many people also believe that the term "fulfilled" means "done away with". I challange you to go thru your scriptures and replace every word that says fulfill with done away with. It might be enlightening to say the least.
I do not follow the law(10 commandments) for justification before the Father. But out of a great love for Him and His standards, and out of a great love for His Son, Yeshua, I allow these to be written on my mind and in my heart as a standard by which to live by.
Yeshua is my Bridegroom, and as His bride, I want to please Him.
You said the law has no feet. I do not think Paul would agree with that. He told Timothy that ALL scripture was good for doctrine, reproof, Correction,ect.. When Paul penned this letter to his nephew, there was no New Testament cannon at that time. He was speaking of the OT. Shalom
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AMH
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yahsway
The Pharisees are now going to be called upon to buttress your line of reasoning.
IF I may I would like to answer your question-
“You have yet to answer my question of what you believe if one person worships Yeshua on Saturday with likeminded believers verses those who do the same on Sunday. Or what of those who do both? I have no problem with it. Do you?”
I am not trying to be difficult but this question does seem to be a little impertinent. This is something that you must answer for yourself. But since you have asked several times I will give my response.
Often times Jesus would be present in the synagogue on Saturday, (the Sabbath). On many occasions the Jews would force Him out so that they might stone Him or throw Him off a cliff. But Jesus would always escape passing through in the midst of them. Finally they dragged Jesus outside the camp where they brutally killed Him. They meant this for evil, but God meant this for good. “Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.”
We are ordered to lead people to Christ. The law is not thus ordered. That is because it cannot go. You see it has no feet. But beautiful are the feet of those who carry the gospel.
It is well that you have brought up the Pharisees as that is where your doctrine comes from.
AMH
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yahsway
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His kingdom is not of this world now, but it will be in the future. Thats why we pray "Your kingdom come"
Yeshua is promised by the Father to rule and reign from Jerusalem when He returns. He will set up His kingdom here on earth. And all the nations will go up to Zion to worship Him.
The 10 commandments show you that you are a sinner in need of a Savior because Yahweh God is a HOlY(Set-apart) God. The scriptures say that the 10 Commandments are the tutor to lead us to Christ.
The apostle John, in his first epistle says, "The one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked" 1John 2:6
Even the Pharisees recognized that Yeshua was a "good man", which meant that He kept the law(John 7:12). What they did not recognize were His Messianic claims (Matt 27:22; Luke 23:2) This attitude continues among Jews in our day. However, Jews, who have not accepted Yeshua as their Messiah do approve of the manner in which He walked. Should we not recognize that keepings Yahwehs laws are good for us? Let us be real.
If Yeshua returned today would we tell Him to: Get a haircut, quit your wine bibbing, keep away from sinners, change your Sabbath to Sunday, liberalize your views on tithing, sex, family, what you can allow your eyes to see and your ears to hear, ect, ect,,?
Yeshua, his disciples and the early church recognized the authority of the scriptures (there was no New Test at that time) From Yeshuas temptation to His crucifixion, the high moments in His walk were puctuated by citations from scripture: "It stands written" (Matt 4:4,7,10).
"Not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law" (Matt 5:18) "Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35) These examples serve as persuasive witnesses to Yeshuas regard for His Fathers Word.
What Yeshua "condemned" was misuse of the Law. Thru out His life, in all His teachings, Yeshua confirmed the validity of the Law. However, He always pointed out its proper use. Thru out His public ministry Yeshua denounced those who would interpret the Law mediatorialy (making the Law a mediator between man and Yahweh) They were errantly setting the law forth as a means whereby man could gain Acceptance with Yahweh.
Yeshua furthur opposed the externalization (outward appearance or behavior) of the Law. by which one would suppose that a mans relationship to Yah is determined by an outward conformity to a set of laws, rules, or regulations.
Can we please Yeshua with an attitude towards the authority of Scripture that is any less than the example He set? Should we not have the Heart attitude of the disciple whom Yeshua loved?
"My little children, I am writing these things to you that you MAY NOT SIN. And if anyone SINS, we have an Advocate with the Father, Messiah Yeshua the rightous; and by this we know that we have come to KNOW Him, if we KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. The one who says, "I have come to know Him, and DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, is a LIAR, and the TRUTH is not in him; but whoever Keeps His Word, in him the love of Yahweh has truly been PERFECTED. Bythis we know that we are in Him: The one who says he abides in Him ought himself to WALK in the SAME mannner as He walked". (The First letter of John 2:1, 3-6)
What law will Yahweh begin to write on your heart as you progress towards spiritual maturity?
Paul writes: "the law is holy, and the commandments are holy, rightous and good" (Romans 7:12) And "in my inner being I delight in Yahwehs law" And, "I myself in my mind am a SLAVE to Yahwehs law". (Romans7:25)
Paul wrote to Timothy, "We know that the law is good if one uses it Properly".(ITim 1:8)
To the Corinthians he wrote, "Keeping Yahwehs commands is what counts" (I Corinth. 7:19)
Even when explaining the rightousness that comes by faith, he was careful to make it clear that the Law was not to be abandoned; "Do we, then, NULLIFY(Do away with) the LAW by this Faith? Not at all! Rather, We Uphold the Law" (Romans 3:31)
Paul knew that the Law was meant to be a Moral guide, even for people already JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. But some people in Pauls day, were trying to be JUSTIFIED by Keeping the law. What Paul criticized was not law-keeping itself, but people making law-keeping the BASIS of ones justification before Yahweh.
Paul rejects the law as a method of salvation, but upholds it as a STANDARD OF CHRISTIAN conduct.
Paul, in his letters, affirms the law, yet he condemns the wrong emphasis MEN place upon it. It is in this sense that Paul is turning believers BACK to the ORIGIONAL intent of the law.
For the LAW is a rule for godly living for those who are ALREADY REDEEMED. And after Paul met Yeshua, he came to understand that we are justified by faith. Armed with this NEW understanding, the law came to be INTERNALIZED, it was "written upon his heart". Now Paul had a desire to observe Yahwehs laws and commandments, because of the INWARD impulse of his new nature.
His obediance was no longer a result of an external compulsion to justify himself before God, Now he was FREE TO OBEY "in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code" (Romans 7:6)
Yeshua said it like this. "Anyone who breaks ONE of the LEAST of these commandments and TEACHES others to do the same will be called LEAST in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever PRACTICES and TEACHES these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven".
Sometimes it is easier for people outside mainstream Christianity to see the blindness of Christians in this area. And the Jewish Encyclopedia (B)Volume 5 pg 52) does quote Yeshuas warning of Matt 5:17, and then makes this very bold statement:
"The rejection of the Law by Christianity, therfore, was a departure from it's Christ..."
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AMH
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yahsway,
If we are listening to Him as Moses commanded that we do then we would know that His kingdom is not of this world. If it had been of this world then His servants would have fought. We are to be living sacrifices, meet for such as would enter His kingdom.
You want to know if the Ten Commandments are still in place. Have you not read what is commonly called the Beatitudes? Do you not understand what Jesus said concerning adultery? Or how about being a neighbor? The Ten Commandments are sterile in more ways than one. They bring no one to God. The Ten Commandments can do only one thing-condemn. Jesus came to set us free. The Apostle Paul preached the perfect law of liberty. This is what we follow.
You are welcome to the re-newed Old Covenant. As I said earlier, it is still enforce. The problem is that it is in the penalty installment. Those that are in it have to pay up. Can you afford it?
AMH
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yahsway
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AMH, I do not identify with the RCC or the Protestants, We have inheritied "lies" from our fathers just as scripture says. My point is this, Yahweh God did not change His Sabbath day. It is still the same. Man did that.
And as for the Old Covenant sacrafical system, well it has changed, we do have a New Priest, and He alone is our Sacrafice.
As for the 10 commandments, they are not "done away" with as many teach. They are still in effect today. They must be or how would one know or have a tutor to point them to Yeshua.
And yes the "contract" was BROKEN, but not by Yahweh God, but by the Bride of Yahewh.
God did not make a covenant or contract and just wake up one day and say "oops, I made a mistake, a bad contract, I'll change it."
The "Gentiles" (Nations) did not "inherit" a New Covenant, because they were not under a covenant to begin with. They(being wild olive branches) have been "grafted" into the origional olive tree. When Judahs eyes are opened to the truth, they will be grafted back into the same Tree.
The nation of the Jews/Judah are blinded for our sakes. Who blinded them? What does scripture say?
Do you believe in the millinal reign of Yeshua here on earth from Jerusalem as scripture teaches? If you do, then you know scripture says that we will go up once a year for the Feast of Tabernacles to worship and celebrate Him. Do you understand the 7 feasts and how they point to Yeshua. Did you know all of them have been fulfilled by Him except 3 yet to be?
You have yet to answer my question of what you believe if one person worships Yeshua on Saturday with likeminded believers verses those who do the same on Sunday. Or what of those who do both? I have no problem with it. Do you?
Why do some people make a big deal about the 10 commandments being taken out of our schools and court systems (not being displayed) if they do not believe they are still in effect?
As I stated to you earlier, I am not talking about the 613 commands/laws of Moses. Israel does not even fall under those laws today. I have been referring to the 10 commands written by Yahweh Gods own hand. Tell me, are they still in effect today? And if not, tell me why they are not. And what did Yeshua mean when he said he did not come to abolish the law or the prophets?
As for Jeremiah 31:32, Of course its not according to the covenant He made with their Fathers, They were not given the Holy Spirit.Yeshua sent the Holy Spirit, it is the seal. He completed the Old Covenant, and sealed it with His blood and with the sending of the Holy Spirit. He is the completion of the law, He is not just some greek or hellenistic "new god" to worship. He is the very one who wrote those laws in the first place. Moses spoke of Him, and said Him we would listen to.
Gotta go to work. Will have more to say later. Shalom and have a blessed day in Him. Cindy
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AMH
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yahsway,
The RCC claims that it does have authority to change the Sabbath law; this authority has been enforce for hundreds of years. (Who is able to challenge it? Do you really think that universal Saturday worship is a possibility given today’s political climate?) Protestants generally do not claim such authority. What they do is defer to RCC. Whether this deferment is explicit or implicit does not matter; they still go along with the RCC as both Protestant doctrine and RCC doctrine is identical in this matter. (As an example, the Puritans liked to wax eloquently about the virtues of keeping the Sabbath day. They went to church on Sunday, imagine that.) But we cannot blame the original Protestant reformers. Their task was huge. And they actually had very little support. I would like to say one other thing about claiming the authority to change God’s law before moving on. Scripture predicted that this thought process would occur, (that of changing God’s law); the original Protestant reformers recognize and wrote about the same.
Getting back to the Old versus New debate-
While there are several references to the adjective you use for describing the Covenant of God, (re-newed) you do not give them. You have only given Jeremiah 31:31 which says nothing about a renewal while ignoring Jeremiah 31:32 and you talk about the moon which has nothing to do with the New Covenant. What we could do is look at every place where the Bible says that the Old Covenant was renewed and see if it matches with what you are saying. I honestly doubt that you would be satisfied with the results.
When the Lord became their husband it only reinforced the idea that there was a legally binding contract between the Lord and Israel. This contract was broken. But there are many who want to operate as though it is still going on. In a way the Old Covenant contract is still going. There is a penalty phase to the contract that we are discussing. Since the nation of Israel is in rejection of OUR Messiah they continue in the penalty phase of the Old Covenant and they have no share in the New. The penalty phase of the Old Covenant is in writing with all of its effects and time tables. Would you like to go over these?
AMH
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yahsway
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No I do not believe the RCC or Protestants have the authority to change Gods Words, teachings, Torah , Laws. Yahweh God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Not one jot or title, of the Letter of the law will pass away until heaven and earth pass away.
I think our miscommunication deals with the Letter of the Law verses the Spirit of the same Law.Also I am not referring to the 613 laws of Moses but to Gods 10 Commandments.
We are now, thru the empowerment of the Holy Spirit, given to the body at Pentecost, able to serve God and obey His laws.
The laws of God were not given to save anyone in the first place. In the OT, there were no sacrafices for willful sin. Yeshua became that ultimate sacrafice ONCE and for ALL.
Yeshua did not come to change or do away with any of Gods laws. That has been taught by the church for years but is wrong. Yeshua obeyed Yahweh God in everything, making Him the perfect, spotless Lamb. Paul says He walked as Yeshua walked and we were to walk in the same way.
The illustration I gave you about the moon was to show you that each month the moon is not literally a New Moon, but re-newed each month.
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and Is God. Who is the word? Yeshua.
We maybe free to worship every and any day of the week, but, that does not change the fact that Yahweh God Blessed and sanctified the 7th day and called it the Sabbath. The Sabbath day God created is still what we know as Saturday and that has not changed.
Before the children of Israel left Egypt, they were told to put the blood of a lamb over the doorpost of their dwellings so that the death angel would pass them by. By FAITH they did this and so was saved from the death angel.
Then they travelled to Mt. Siani where Yahweh God made a marriage covenant with them (10 commands). He became their husband.
You see, by faith they were saved, thru Gods Grace and THEN they were told to OBEY the laws or 10 commands. They were not told by God to obey first and then I will save you, He SAVED them first and then basically said now if you love me, keep my commandments.
It is the same today. Yeshua doesnt say clean up first, obey me and then I will save you. NO, He offers Himself (his blood), we put His blood over us by accepting Him by faith thru His grace, and then He says If you love me, then keep my commandments.
Why is it so hard for people to believe that His commandments are not burdensome? To be "Under the Law" is to be under the penalties or ordiance if you break the laws. But to be "Under Grace" is not that those laws are done away with, it is to be under the Blood, that was shed for us all, so that now if we willfully or not break these laws, there is forgiveness if we repent and ask for it thru Yeshua.
No longer having the High Priest go in once a year to make atonment for us, sprinkling the blood of bulls and goats on the mercy seat (which held the 10 commands, but now going boldly ourselves, with Yeshua as the Blood sprinkled on the mercy seat, and as our High Priest and mediator before a Holy, Rightous Father God.
Gods laws did not change. Yeshua is the goal, the completeness of those laws, He filled it up, re-newing the Old covenant by His blood.
If Gods Holy 10 commands are "done away" with, then what leads people to know that they are sinners and in need of a Savior, a High priest to atone for them?
When people come down to the alter, and are convicted of their sins by showing them the 10 commands of God,and by the Holy Spirit doing His work, and are shown where they(we) fall short of Gods Glory, and then they repent of their sins and believe on Him who was sent, Yeshua, do we say now "go and sin no more" or do we say, Well, glory hallaluyah, you are now saved and by the way, now you have no need for those 10 commands cause they have been done away with?
This does happen, I have friends who believe that they can do anything sinful under the sun and claim that it doesnt matter, they are already saved.This is what I refer to as greasy or sloppy Grace. They trample on the Grace of a Holy God.
Many today say all we need is "LOVE". But there is more than that. Yeshua said we must love God first, then our neighbor and the rest of law "HANGS" on these two principles. He never said that the rest were "done away" with. He said if you love Me, Keep my commandments. If Yeshua was from the beginning, and He is the WORD made flesh, then is it not reasonable to say that He is the Torah which in hebrew means "THE WORD" "THE INSTRUCTIONS".
Understand, the Law was never meant to "save" anyone. We are NOT saved by the doings of the law, but only by the Shed blood of Yeshua. But that does not mean that the law is forever "done away" with. ALL things are summed up in Him, including the laws of His Father, which He obeyed. He was falsly accused of breaking them, but He did not. And He would that if we all belong and follow Him, that we would OBEY Him and the Laws of God.
Some Believeing Jews and other Jews wanted the Nations(Gentiles) to be circumcised of flesh in order to join into Gods kingdom. But it is the circumcision of Heart that God always wanted.
A lot today praise Him with their lips, but their Hearts are far from Him. Divorce today is higher in the church than in the secular world, but hey, the laws of God are done away with so what? There is much covetness in the church today, but so what? The laws of God have been done away with. Many professing christians have abortions, but again, the laws have been done away with. Many in the church today commit Adultry, but so what? The laws of God have been done away with.Thou shall not steal, but many fleece the flock today, but no matter, the laws are done away with. Thou shalt not have any other gods before me. But this also happens in the church body of today, new age thinking and practices, RCC has many gods, pragmatisim, bringing in the sanctuary worldy things to entice people to "come to church", when we are suppose to "BE" the church. But again, we have put Gods laws away, all we need is LOVE. And I could go on, but I think the point has been made.A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
These are still "under the law". If you are led by the Spirit then you are not under the "law"
If you claim to be a "christian" and are walking in the ways of adultry, lying, stealing, covetness, murder, ect.. then are you not still "under the law" when you die? will you not have to answer for these things? Could those who say but Lord, Lord look what we did in your name, and He says depart from me you who work iniquity (lawlessness)be the very ones who say Gods laws are "done away with"?
Gal: 5:19-22 sums it up I think. Shalom
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AMH
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yahsway,
You gave Jeremiah 31:31. What do you think about the next verse, (32)? There is also Galatians chapter 4 which does not seem to put the Old Covenant in a very good light with the Apostle Paul going so far as to have us cast out that Covenant.
Why do you ask me about your marriage? What does the Old Covenant say?
I think that I see your point about the RCC. Do you not think that it has the authority to change God’s law? And if it does not then why do the Protestants follow?
I want to discuss the idea of “all Israel” but would rather in a separate posting.
The Lord told the Israelites through Moses that if they would leave Egypt that He would lead them into the Promise Land. It did not quite work out that way. There was a breach of promise, (Numbers 14:34). Now we know why that generation was not allowed to enter the land. But can it be shown that they were told the reason for this possible rejection before they left Egypt? If not then the King James Bible has translated the verse in question correctly, it would be God’s breach of promise. If you would like to discuss this with me further then another thread should be started as this is a subject unto itself.
If we are going to get technical about the moon and its phases then maybe we should start a covenant of the month club.
AMH
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yahsway
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Yes AMH, I do lay the fault on the priest of the Old Covenant. God did not make a bad or faulty covenant. The people constantly rebelled against God. The origonal Covenant was that Israel would be a nation of priests. They rebelled, and God gave it to the Levites. But this was not the origional Plan.
Do you have a problem with believers setting aside one day, whether Sat. or Sun. to worship corporately? I do not. I serve Him everyday, I fellowship with believers on both Saturday and Some Sundays.
God made the Sabbath day, the 7th day. The RCC changed it to Sunday. I am married to a believing Jew. Do you have a problem with that?
I was raised in a Baptist denomination, Filled with the Holy Spirit in the Assembly of God. Was Minister/worship Leader in the A/G for 10 years.
Yahweh God lead me into the messianic congregations about 5 years ago. I study Hebrew Roots, love Yeshua with all my heart, and I do not believe in Sloppy Grace as so many today do.
Yes, as a man thinks in his heart, so he is. That is what Yeshua meant when he said if we even look on another with lust in our heart, we have committed adultry already.
I do not believe the 10 commandments were nailed to the cross, but the ordinances of those commandments were. Yeshua paid the price. He was the one nailed to the cross.
Jeremiah 31:31
Reference to the re-newd Covenant. The annointing of the Ruach (the holy spirit) empowers us as believers to walk in His ways. His laws will be written on our hearts, not done away with. He puts His laws in our minds and writes them on our hearts.
Notice where He says that the Fathers of the Old Covenant broke it. It was not a faulty covenant, we are faulty people.
Also notice who the covenant will be made with. With the House of Judah and with the House of Israel. Nothing said about the House Church. Do you know who both houses consist of. Its not all Jews/Judah. And when He does this, ALL Isarel will be saved. Have you joined Yourself with the God of ALL Israel? Have you been grafted into the Olive tree of Israel?
Just as the moon we have comes around and we call it a New Moon, it really isnt New, it is renewd to its fullness each month. Yeshua is the fullness, the Re-newal of the Origional Covenant.He Is and was from the very beginning.
Yahweh God does not break His Covenants. But He certainly Fullfills or completes it. Yeshua is the better priesthood.And now, we in and thru Him are kings and a nation of priests.
He is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. God has a plan and knows the end from the beginning.
and here is my reference to a one day sabbath, not just everyday. isaiah 66:22
23: And it shall come to pass that from One New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me, says the Lord.
Shalom Alechem ![[Kiss]](graemlins/Kiss.gif)
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Eduardo Grequi
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DOWN DEEP WITHIN, I WISH I COULD RETURN TO BETSAIDE, ISRAEL. BUT FOR NOW, I MINISTER TO THE LATIN PEOPLE HERE.
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AMH
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Forgive me yahsway, I am reading your last posting but not finding any references to the term “re-newed” covenant, (you seem to have found the references to the adjectives that I gave. I would like to be given the same opportunity to comment on your scripture sightings. I am a little slow today, so if you do not mind would you show me the specific scripture reference(s) please and thank you).
It is difficult for me to lay all of the blame on the priests for the failure of the Old Covenant as you seem to be doing. (If you are not intending to lay all the blame on the priests then I apologize for misunderstanding your post.) Israel/Judah was always judged by God corporately. When they would not enter into the land all of that generation had to die in the wilderness, (excepting for Caleb and Joshua). When the kings failed the people had to take the blame because they insisted on having kings. And really God intended for Israel corporately to be a nation of priests, so by them refusing to be the priests that God intended they are guilty when the ones who were willing to serve God failed.
The New Covenant does not, as supposed, minimize our responsibilities toward God, just the opposite, it maximizes them. The Old Covenant says not to commit adultery, but Jesus said if you so much as look on a woman in lust then you have committed adultery already. As far as keeping of the Sabbath, it is not now just one day a week out of our lives that we are to give to the Lord but all of them because He is Lord even of the Sabbath. This line of reasoning can be extended.
AMH
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yahsway
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The origional Covenant was made with the Hebrew/Israelites, not with Gentiles.
Gentiles are "grafted" into the Re-newed (Brit Ha Dasha) Covenant.
The laws of God were not "done away with" as some suppose, the Priesthood was as well as the ordiances of the laws of God.
For example, If you get a speeding ticket for going over the speedlimit, then you must pay the price/ordiance/fine for breaking the speeding laws.
Someone could give you the money and pay the fine for you, but the speed limit does not change simply because someone paid the price of the ticket. The speed limit remains the same.
In the same way, Yeshua paid the price for us, for all have sinned, broke the laws of Yahweh God, but the Law stands forever. Yeshua said until heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or title would pass away from the law. And heaven and earth have not passed away yet.
Yeshua says, if you love me, keep my commandments.
Yahwehs laws were and are not "faulty". What was and is faulty was the way the Priest added to and took away from Yahweh Gods origional laws. They were made of no effect due to the "traditions". The rabbis of Yeshuas day went more by "Oral laws and traditions than by the word of Yah.
The very word Torah, means "Instructions, Teachings, The Words, Law.
What was ready to vanish away was the need for a High Priest to go into the Holy of Holies and offer up sacrafices for the sins of the people. Yeshua did that ONCE and for ALL. It is finished. We can now enter in boldy to the throne of grace, each one of us, without sacrafices of bulls and goats, without a Priest for a mediator, but with Yeshua as our mediator.
Will the "law" save you or "justify" you ? NO, only the shed blood of Yeshua can save you. But, now He can write His laws on our hearts, now we love Him enough to say Yes Lord, I will obey. Shalom
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AMH
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yahsway,
Thanks for the reply. You know you have stumped me. I am drawing a blank as to where your reference for the way you are describing the Old Covenant, (the adjective “re-newed”) is coming from. Suppose you would not mind helping me out on that?
AMH
(I was able to find a few adjectives on my own. Here they are: faulty, old, decayeth, ready to vanish away.)
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yahsway
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AMH, I agree that the Priesthood had to be changed. The Old Covenant( Old Testament) is now a Re-newed Covenant thru the Blood of Yeshua.
The ordiances of the the Law were taken away and nailed to the cross. So if we are commandment breakers, we will not be stoned to death because Yeshua paid that price for us. Taking those ordiances out of the way. Sin is transgression of the law, and Yeshua paid for such trangressions(sins). Shalom
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AMH
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yahsway,
Would you agree that the Old Covenant had to be changed?
AMH
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Caretaker
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posted
God bless you MySavingGrace;
Witnessing is sharing our greatest joy, our life, our hope, our blessed assurance with others.
Acts 1:
6: When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7: And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Main Entry: 1wit·ness
Pronunciation: 'wit-n&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English witnesse, from Old English witnes knowledge, testimony, witness, from 2wit
1 : attestation of a fact or event : TESTIMONY
2 : one that gives evidence; specifically : one who testifies in a cause or before a judicial tribunal
3 : one asked to be present at a transaction so as to be able to testify to its having taken place
4 : one who has personal knowledge of something
5 a : something serving as evidence or proof : SIGN b : public affirmation by word or example of usually religious faith or conviction <the heroic witness to divine life -- Pilot>
6 capitalized : a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses
Main Entry: tes·ti·mo·ny
Pronunciation: 'tes-t&-"mO-nE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -nies
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin & Latin; Late Latin testimonium Decalogue, from Latin, evidence, witness, from testis witness -- more at TESTAMENT
1 a (1) : the tablets inscribed with the Mosaic law (2) : the ark containing the tablets b : a divine decree attested in the Scriptures
2 a : firsthand authentication of a fact : EVIDENCE b : an outward sign c : a solemn declaration usually made orally by a witness under oath in response to interrogation by a lawyer or authorized public official
3 a : an open acknowledgment b : a public profession of religious experience
Each of us who has received Christ can testify to the change which has ocurred in our hearts and lives, and bear witness to the truth of God's Word and the living reality of God the WORD manifest in the flesh, the Author and Finisher of our salvation.
Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found;
Was blind, but now I see.
’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears relieved;
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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yahsway
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LFL, no I am not from Israel but am married to a messianic Jew. I know that the 10 tribes are what the scriptures refer to as Ephraim/Israel.And I know that according to scripture, that the Father is bringing the two sicks together again. Restoring the Tabernacle of David.
I am a believer in Yeshua Ha Mashiach and I am also an Ephramite.
I am a Sabbath keeper but also go to many different fellowships on any given Sunday to fellowship with other believers.
I have some friends that live in the settelments in Israel that are to be disengaged next month. Please pray for them.
I also keep the Feasts. The Feast of Tabernacles is coming up in October. I will be going again to NC. The Pastor/Rabbi there was with Kenneth Copeland ministries most all his life up until a few years ago when the Father called him out of it.
I am planning a trip to Ha eretz (the land)for next year the Father willing. But i would be happy to answer any questions that I can for you now. Shalom
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luvfreelife
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posted
Yahsway,
According to my studies, many of the people in the US will be in Egypt as captives. The UN will be set up in Egypt, near cairo somewhere.
The lost ten tribes of Israel aren't technically called Jews, as they aren't from the tribe of Judas.
Are you from Israel? If so, I have a million questions to ask you.
Good bless
luvfreelife
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Eduardo Grequi
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posted
Lekheim ! bevakasha e misheheu Yeshua zurukkimen! Mazal tov! ehm Tov Bevakasha lehakier Yeshua- Ben-Abbas el Akhat, el Akhat eu el Sha'ahadi. Nakheim eyn, Nakheim Yisereal! Yerushalem, Ahl yad Yeshua kiyn gibt ! Besser Khaeg sameakh!
( O greatly rejoice! Please soon my Messias Jesus return! What a great day, when my Jesus -you would like to meet!Only Son of the heavenly Father, The Only One, the Only One with the annointing of the Holy Spirit! Return home, return Isreal, Jerusalem awaits. There is none given other than Jesus! What great feast awaits!)
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redkermit
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by MySavingGrace:
why be excited for the end?
For those of us who know God its great. But, knowing its closer with people like my parents especialy and others who don't but are great people, its scary
I am not scared for myself but for others. I also feel the end will show the true believrs and those who are lukewarm and falling away
I feel much the same way, MySavingGrace. It's kind of a paradox (is that the right word?). I long for Christ's return, and would be more than happy if He came back right now.
But, on the other hand, I have some friends and family that need to repent and be saved, so of course I hope and pray the Lord tarries until then. All the more reason to keep on witnessing, as it seems the end is near!
![[rapture]](graemlins/rapture.gif)
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I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)
1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org
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LaurieFL
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We who love Christ yearn for Him. The bride anxiously awaits her bridegroom. I too did not look forward to His return when I did not really know Him, but now that we have a close personal relationship, I long for Him always.
The coming of Christ is certainly not the end anyway, it is the true beginning.
I am grateful He is merciful and has tarried so as to allow as many as possible to come to Him and I hope that the lost do not tarry in their decisions, but I still agree with the prayer in my Bible...Even so, Maranatha. Come quickly, Lord Jesus.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
This is all a part of God's plan and gets us Christians excited because we know the coming of the Lord draws closer.
Yep, I am excited ![[wiggle7]](graemlins/wiggle7.gif) ![[hyper]](graemlins/hyper.gif) ![[dance]](graemlins/dance1.gif) ![[youpi]](graemlins/youpi.gif)
Thanks for that lesson Yahsway!
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LaurieFL
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Since 1948 there has been a steady influx of Jewish immigrants to Israel, but even moreso since the fall of the Iron Curtain. There is a huge population of Russian and Polish jewish people in Israel now. Many American Jewish people have also begun to return to Israel. What is unfortunate is that the economic infrastructure of Israel cannot handle all of these people and many immigrants are poverty stricken, especially ones from the former Soviet Union.
It is very exciting to see the prophecies being fulfilled, as the Jewish people have not been all together since they were >90% killed and the remnant dispersed in 70 AD. This is all a part of God's plan and gets us Christians excited because we know the coming of the Lord draws closer.
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yahsway
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posted
Isaiah wrote:
When the Lord will have compassion on Jacob and agin choose Israel, and settle them i their own land, THEN STRANGERS will JOIN them and ATTACH themselves to the house of Jacob. Is. 14:1
In essence Isaiah is saying that Yahweh God will gather a remnant of Jews from among the 12 tribes of Israel and a remnant from among the Gentiles who join together with their Jewish friends, especially those who are in Messiah. This remnant will come from the four corners of the earth. This prophecy has not yet been fulfilled. This is what we call in Messianic Circles as the "Second Exodus".
Why will this second Exodus involve Gentiles and not just Jews? Because the word of God indicates it( see Ez. 47:21-23, Is. 14:1-2, Zechariah 8:22-23)Also because it fits with the pattern of the first Exodus 12:3-38 Now the sons of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, aside from the children. A MIXED MULTITUDE also went up with them, along with flocks and herds. I believe history has a way of repeating itself.
The second Exodus is a physical, not a spiritual exodus (see Is. 11:15-16)
I believe Is. 11 is an outline of God's future and soon comming plan to bring the elect of His people, Jew and gentile, out from the nations and into the Promised Land. And I believe it has started. Shalom
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SoftTouch
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It's SO Exciting to see GOD Fulfilling His Profetic Word before our very eyes!!!! Thanks for sharing this Sis!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Israel to pass U.S. as biggest Jewish community
Jul 12, 7:34 AM (ET)
By Matthew Tostevin
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel will by next year become home to the largest Jewish community in the world for the first time, surpassing the Jewish population in the United States, a think tank said on Tuesday.
Not for nearly 2,000 years has the Holy Land been home to the globe's biggest Jewish community.
The report from the Jewish People Policy Planning Institute said the Jewish population of Israel was about 5.24 million and of the United States some 5.28 million, but the balance was shifting quickly.
"The Jewish community in Israel is the most vibrant in the world," said Avinoam Bar-Yosef, director general of the Jerusalem-based JPPPI. "In the U.S., the community has been stagnant by numbers for many years," he told Reuters.
Although immigration to Israel has dropped, especially since a Palestinian uprising blew up in 2000, the birth rate of Israeli Jews is much higher than abroad -- each woman has an average of up to 2.7 children.
There are also fewer marriages between Jews and non-Jews in Israel than in communities abroad.
The last time this region was home to the world's largest Jewish community was in the 1st century, when the Romans put down a rebellion and much of the Jewish population scattered.
The report from the pro-immigration thinktank predicted the Jewish population of Israel would grow to 6.23 million by 2020 from 650,000 when the state was founded in 1948. The world's Jewish population would grow to 13.5 million from 13 million.
SHIFTING DEMOGRAPHIC BALANCE
Demography is high on the agenda in Israel, where policymakers seek to preserve a Jewish majority in the Zionist homeland.
Arabs, most of them Muslims, make up more than one fifth of Israel's population of 6.9 million. But a further 3.8 million Palestinians live in the West Bank and Gaza Strip -- occupied by Israel since the 1967 Middle East war.
"Over the whole territory between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River there is a marked trend toward the consolidation of an Arab majority by 2010," the report said.
It put the fertility rate of Israeli Arabs at about 4.6 children per woman, much higher than for Jews, and said Israel needed 60,000 to 100,000 new immigrants a year to ensure the Jewish majority did not shrink.
Immigration fell from around 70,000-80,000 a year in the 1990s -- when large numbers were still leaving the former Soviet Union -- to just 23,000 in 2003, the report said.
One argument put forward by backers of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plan for giving up the Gaza Strip later this year is that it will remove nearly 1.4 million Palestinians from the demographic equation. Some 8,500 settlers live in the territory.
The question of who counts as a Jew can pose a problem for surveys. The JPPPI used the religious-based definition of those with a Jewish mother. For immigration to Israel, the requirement is at least one Jewish grandparent.
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