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walkbyfaith
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Small town of Evart. I can send you one just email me your info Jeremiahwiltse@yahoo.com.
Posts: 80 | From: Michigan | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
walkbyfaith
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Oh I forgot to tell you too your not playing tennis your playing God, and that doesn't work in any game.
Posts: 80 | From: Michigan | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
walkbyfaith
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Port you are the one who brought the experiment to this forum that's why I called it your scientific experiment. Secondly the experiment that you mentioned did put stipulations on them. For in the experiment the people who were asked to pray said they don't usually deal with God that way. You still haven't answered the whole issue on the Bible telling people to pray for one another, and why prayer is mentioned so many times in the Bible? So do you believe in science and the Bible, or just science?
What about the scientific experiment I mentioned and it's positive results with prayer? I clearly showed that intercessory prayer is Biblical and can work. You notice the people who were prayed for did not know if they were being prayed for or not. It wasn't about their faith in healing, but about God. You tried to dodge the bullet by pointing it back at me with that bogus line if a person isn't healed I believe only for God knows what. That was really twisting my words,
What I said is there are other reasons one person might be healed and another not. Naming a few like it might be a trial of their faith, and here I wasn't talking about a Coma patient. Family or friends can see us as Christians go through hospitalization, even death and not be healed and we witness through the whole thing. My grandpa died when we prayed for him it was his time, yet he witnessed to us of God's peace through the whole thing.
I also said a person might not be healed because of doubt, which would be a persons unwillingness to allow God's power to work in their lives. It's not that anyone's more important than someone else,but that God works through faith. Faith in the person that prays and faith in the recipient of the prayer. When a person has many people praying for them there is even more faith added. Does it sound stupid? Why then does God say where two or three are gathered in my name there I am in the midst of them? Imagine if a whole city was praying for someone, or a whole nation was praying for revival?
Jesus said many times let it happen according to your faith when he healed people.
Does sin make us sick sometimes? Remember we are dealing with evil spirits in battle. Unforgiveness and unrepented sin can bring the power of darkness into our lives. One scripture even says some Christians are sick because of this. Can we expect God's blessing when we are walking in darkness? Reap what you sew sound familiar?
If we could not go through anything , but just have others pray it away for us. Where would faith be? Everyone would have to believe in God, because there would be no doubts. Why does God allow doubt? He needs his children to believe in his righteousness no matter the outcome. God is trying this world and yet he still pours out his mercy.The sun shines on the wicked and the righteous, and the rain falls on the righteous and the unrighteous.
So don't misinterpret my God only knows statement. There are very good reasons why one person is healed and another isn't. When I can't figure out the reason I know God knows, and that's enough for me. It's better than throwing up your hands and saying I give up on intercessory prayer and blaspheming the Bible. You better check yourself before you wreck yourself. That's a warning for your heading down a bad road brother.

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Port Moresby
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quote:
Originally posted by walkbyfaith:
Scientific Research of Prayer: Can the Power of Prayer Be Proven?

By Debra Williams, D.D.

1999 PLIM Retreat, (c) 1999 PLIM REPORT, Vol. 8 #4

Theme: Inner Journey, Part 5

Feel free to copy and circulate this article for non-commercial purposes provided the Web site and author are mentioned.

See Related Articles in MEDITATION AND THE POWERS OF THE MIND



Introduction

Throughout time, the power of prayer has been questioned by science. The analytical mind of the scientist calls for proof of the existence of a higher being. These scientists, both the faithful and nonbelievers alike, have produced studies into the affects of prayer on our physical as well as spiritual well being. Although most of us, who possess the belief that prayer can and does work, do not require physical, quantitative proof of the power of prayer, it is interesting to read the results of these studies.

Was a scientific study of prayer and its effect on heart patients done?

One of the most quoted scientific studies of prayer was done between August of 1982 and May of 1983. 393 patients in the San Francisco General Hospital’s Coronary Care Unit participated in a double blind study to assess the therapeutic effects of intercessory prayer. Patients were randomly selected by computer to either receive or not receive intercessory prayer. All participants in the study, including patients, doctors, and the conductor of the study himself remained blind throughout the study, To guard against biasing the study, the patients were not contacted again after it was decided which group would be prayed for, and which group would not.

It was assumed that although the patients in the control group would not be prayed for by the participants in the study, that others-family members, friends etc., would likely pray for the health of at least some of the members of the control group. There was no control over this factor. Meanwhile all of the members of the group that received prayer would be prayed for by not only those associated with the study, but by others as well.

The results of the study are not surprising to those of us who believe in the power of prayer. The patients who had received prayer as a part of the study were healthier than those who had not. The prayed for group had less need of having CPR (cardiopulmonary resuscitation) performed and less need for the use of mechanical ventilators. They had a diminished necessity for diuretics and antibiotics, less occurrences of pulmonary edema, and fewer deaths. Taking all factors into consideration, these results can only be attributed to the power of prayer.

Did prayer lower blood pressure?

The August 31, 1998 issue of Jet Magazine questioned whether prayer could lower blood pressure in high blood pressure sufferers, Again the obvious conclusion was reached. The magazine reported of a study conducted by Duke University Medical Center in Durham, NC. This study had over 4,000 participants over the age of 65. The study found that those who pray and attend religious services on a weekly basis, especially those between the ages of 65 and 74, had lower blood pressure than their counterparts who did not pray or attend religious services. They found that the more religious the person, particularly those who prayed or studied the Bible weekly, the lower the blood pressure. According to the study these people were forty percent less likely to have high diastolic pressure or diastolic hypertension than these were who did not attend religious services, pray, or study the Bible.

Dr. David B. Larson, president of the National Institute for Health Care Research in Rockville, MD, who co-authored the study, also says that prayer can lower high blood pressure. "The at-risk population of people with illnesses, such as the elderly seem to be helped if they have faith and religious commitment." Dr. Larson states: "Faith brings a calming state which helps decrease nervousness and anxiety with coping with day to day stress."

How does prayer effect people who lack health care?

In the Essence Magazine May 1997 issue, Allison Abner writes that African-Americans have historically turned to faith in times of illness and other crises. She cited Luisah Teish who states: "Because of limited access to quality health care and our distrust of the medical establishment we have occasionally relied on spiritual healing through such practices as prayer and the laying on of hands, Most of us, at some time have used prayer chanting or proverbs as ways to guide, direct, and heal ourselves." "Now," states Allison, "Our beliefs are being backed by medical research," Science is setting out to prove what most of the faithful already know--prayer does work.

Has a prayer study been done on the life of twins?

The December 1998 issue of Mc Call’s Magazine raised the question: How does prayer heal? The article notes a study done at the Virginia Commonwealth University Medical College of Virginia in Richmond, which studied 1,902 twins. They found that those who were committed to their spiritual lives tended to have less severe depression and a lower risk of addiction to cigarettes or alcohol. The healthful lifestyles of the spiritually rich and faithful clearly contribute to their well being, They tend not to smoke or drink or not do either excessively. Their marriages are more stable and their spiritual communities form a network that can catch and support people when they are ill.

What effect does prayer and religion have on life?

To delve into religious attitudes and their impact on health, Koenig and his co-researcher, Kenneth Paragament, Ph.D., a professor of psychology at Bowling Green State University in Ohio, studied 577 hospital patients age 55 and older. One 98-year-old woman with pneumonia and congestive heart failure looked upon her illness as God’s plan for her. She prayed often for the health and well being of her family and friends. These attitudes were associated with a serene response to stress and low levels of depression. All signs of well being that nurture joy in living might even extend one’s life.

While positive feelings toward a higher power seemed to foster well being, negative thoughts about a deity had the opposite effect. For example, a woman in her late 50’s with lung cancer left her church in her 20’s, became involved with drugs, and now feels her illness must be a sign of divine disapproval. She got poorer scores on tests that measured quality of life and psychological health than the 98-year-old woman.

What do atheists think about prayer?

Noted atheist Dan Barker, a spokesperson for the Freedom from Religion Foundation says the findings of the above research are no big surprise. Prayer and religious beliefs can have a placebo effect, just like a sugar pill. Barker, who was once a Christian Fundamentalist preacher before developing serious doubts about his religion, states that one of the strongest factors in recovery from an illness is a sense of connectedness with a community and people who care about you. Even if we mumble our prayers only when we are ill or if there is no God to hear them, the new research indicated that religious thoughts could help to heal.

Dr. Larry Dossey writes about the placebo effect mentioned earlier by Dan Barker and physicians who have looked at the tremendous amount of scientific studies on prayer. As Dr. Dossey states: "That is difficult to do considering that bacteria, fungi, and germinating seeds are not generally considered to be susceptible to suggestion."

Does prayer effect plant seeds?

In a study on germinating seeds done by Dr. Franklin Loehr, a Presbyterian minister and scientist, the objective was to see in a controlled experiment what effect prayer had over living and seemingly non-living matter. In one experiment they took three pans of various types of seeds. One was the control pan. One pan received positive prayer, and the other received negative prayer. Time after time, the results indicated that prayer helped speed germination and produced more vigorous plants. Prayers of negation actually halted germination in some plants and suppressed growth in others.

In another experiment two bottles of spring water were purchased. One container was used as a control, receiving no prayer; a group prayed for the second. The water was then used on pans of corn seeds layered in cotton, with one pan receiving the prayer water and the other receiving the control water. The pan receiving the prayer water sprouted a day earlier than seeds in the other pan. The prayer seeds had a higher germination and growth rate. The experiment was repeated with the same result each time.

What effect does prayer have on microorganisms?

Dr. Dossey, in his book, Be Careful What You Pray For, looks closely at experiments with microorganisms. He states, "Skeptics who do not believe in the effects of distant intentions say that any observed result must be due to the expectation of the subject- or the power of belief and thought." Dossey argues that if bacteria respond to outside intentions by growing more slowly when prayed over, than control groups not receiving prayer, then one cannot dismiss this result by attributing it to negative suggestion.

Bacteria presumably do not think positively or negatively. Another major advantage of microorganisms in studies of distant mental intentions has to do with the control group. If the effects of intercessory prayer, for example, are being assessed in a group of humans who have a particular illness, it is difficult to establish a pure control group that does not receive prayer. The reason is that sick human beings generally pray for themselves; or outsiders pray for them, thus contaminating the control group, which by definition should not receive the treatment being evaluated.

In studies involving microbes, this notorious "Problem of Extraneous Prayer" is totally overcome because one can be reasonably certain that the bacteria, fungi, or yeast in a control group will not pray for themselves. And that their fellow microbes will not pray for them.

If the study involved negative intentions instead of positives, the advantages remain the same. The thoughts of microorganisms do not influence its outcome.

Jean Barry, a physician-researcher in Bordeaux, France, chooses to work with a destructive fungus, Rhizoctonia Solani. He asked 10 people to try to inhibit its growth merely through their intentions at a distance of 1.5 meter.

The experiment involved control Petri dishes with fungi that were not influenced in addition to those that were. The laboratory conditions were carefully controlled regarding the genetic purity of the fungi and the composition of the culture medium, the relative humidity, and the conditions of temperature and lighting.

The control petri dishes and the influenced dishes were treated identically, except for the negative intentions directed toward the latter. A person who was blind to the details of the experiment handled various manipulations. The influences simply took their stations at the 1.5 meters and were free to act as they saw fit for their own concentration. For 15 minutes each subject was assigned five experimental and five control dishes. Of the ten subjects three to six subjects worked during a session, and there were nine sessions.

Measurement of the fungi colony on the Petri dish was obtained by outlining the boundary of the colony on a sheet of thin paper. Again, someone who did not know the aim of the experiment or the identity of the Petri dishes did this. The outlines were then cut out and weighed under condition of constant temperature and humidity. When the growth in 195 experimental dishes was compared to their corresponding controls, it was significantly retarded in 151 dishes. The possibility that these results could be explained by chance was less than one in a thousand.

Dr. Daniel I. Benor, who has evaluated all the known experiments in the field of distant healing in his landmark work healing research, calls this study "Highly significant."

Does physical distance effect prayer?

The researchers William H. Tedder and Melissa L. Monty from the University of Tennessee replicated the experiment. The goal of this study was to inhibit the growth of the fungus from the distance of one to fifteen miles. Two groups participated. Group one was made up of Tedder and six others who knew him and frequently interacted with him over a year and a half. Group 2 consisted of 8 volunteers who either did not know Tedder or did not interact with him frequently.

When the growth differential between the experimental and control dishes were compared, group one was highly successful. The likelihood of explaining their results by chance were less than 3 in 100,000. Group two was less successful. Their likelihood of a chance explanation was 6 in 100. Why was group one more successful? The researchers theorized that because of their established rapport with Tedder they might have had greater expectation and more motivation of a positive outcome than group two had.

In a post-experiment questionnaire, the group one subjects indeed responded more positively to questions about how they perceived their ability to inhibit the fungal cultures at a distance. Note: This is a clear example of faith in prayer verses doubt.

The fact that prayer is non local, that it functions at a distance, and that spatial separation does not diminish the affect means that it does not have to be intrusive. There is cross-cultural evidence that prayer does work. The factors that seem to affect the outcome of these studies are qualifies of consciousness, like caring, compassion, empathy, and love. When you take these qualities away the outcome of the study is changed. In, fact according to Dr. Dossey, if you flip these "empathetic, warm feelings" to the negative, frequently the subject is affected. In experiments a bacterium died and plants withered when subjected to the negative influence.

Conclusion

These studies have shown conclusive evidence of the power of prayer. Time after time the outcomes of these tests have shown the reality of the force of a higher being and our ability to communicate with Him.

We have also learned from viewing the results of these studies that the expectations we have while praying factor into the outcome of our prayers. Though the faithful will always believe that there need not be any physical evidence of the power and effects of prayer, science has come a long way toward showing just that-prayer is real, and it works.



Home Page|What's New


© Power Latent in Man 1999

Regarding the first study (Byrd and Harris)...

"The Byrd study had an inconsistent pattern of only six positive outcomes amongst 26 specific problem conditions. A systematic review suggested this indicates possible Type I errors. [3]
A 1999 follow-up by William S Harris et al. attempted to replicate Byrd's findings under stricter experimental conditions, noting that the original research was not completely blinded and was limited to only "prayer-receptive" individuals (57 of the 450 patients invited to participate in the study refused to give consent "for personal reasons or religious convictions").[9] Using a different, continuous weighted scoring system – which admittedly was, like Byrd's scoring, "an unvalidated measure of CCU outcomes" – Harris et al. concluded that "supplementary, remote, blinded, intercessory prayer produced a measurable improvement in the medical outcomes of critically ill patients", and suggested that "prayer be an effective adjunct to standard medical care."[10] However, when they applied Byrd’s scores to their data, they could not document an effect of prayer using his scoring method. Critics have suggested that both Byrd's and Harris's results can be explained by chance.[11] Psychiatrist Richard P. Sloan compared the Byrd and Harris studies with the sharpshooter fallacy, "searching through the data until a significant effect is found, then drawing the bull's-eye."[12]"

The bit about "How does prayer effect people who lack health care?" has nothing whatsoever to do with science. It is merely Ms. Abner quoting Luisha Reish. There isn't even an attempt to provide us with data.
The fact that this anecdote is construed as scientific evidence should all make us suspicious of Debra Williams' neutrality in this matter.
Of course, a willingness to follow the evidence wherever it leads us is the hallmark of any serious scientific enterprise.

Port

--------------------
Reach out, pierce the thin veil of the sheltering sky

Posts: 18 | From: New Orleans | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Port Moresby
Community Member
Member # 10544

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quote:
Originally posted by walkbyfaith:
[QB] First to your response intercessory prayer doesn't work I say your [sic] wrong as would God.
Secondly your scientific experiment was flawed.

It wasn't my experiment, Walkbyfaith, it was about as rigorous a double-blind study as is possible. Also, it was funded by Templeton, so you can imagine what outcome they would have favored.

quote:

You can't tell God how to heal someone or the stipulations by which he has to work, neither can you test him.

I think you misunderstand, Walkbyfaith. Nobody was telling God anything.They were simply measuring whether people who were prayed for recovered better. They didn't.

quote:

Pretty specific, lets [sic] do that in a scientific experiment. Of course it isn't about one person being more important than another, it would be for the glory of God.

I am sorry, but that doesn't make any sense.
Why would God bring one coma patient back from their slumber but not another merely for his own glory?

quote:

If their [sic] not healed there could be many reasons. For one it could be the sickness or pain is a trial of their faith. It could be hindered by doubts, by unforgiveness [sic] within the person,or God knows what.

If one reasons this way, nothing will ever be known.
This is not a prudent way to apply our God-given intellect.
A person is prayed for and gets better; this is proof of the effectiveness of intercessory prayer.
A person is prayed for and dies and the reason is (to use your phrase) "God knows what".

This is playing tennis without the net.


Port

--------------------
Reach out, pierce the thin veil of the sheltering sky

Posts: 18 | From: New Orleans | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
walkbyfaith
Advanced Member
Member # 10538

Icon 16 posted      Profile for walkbyfaith     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Scientific Research of Prayer: Can the Power of Prayer Be Proven?

By Debra Williams, D.D.

1999 PLIM Retreat, (c) 1999 PLIM REPORT, Vol. 8 #4

Theme: Inner Journey, Part 5

Feel free to copy and circulate this article for non-commercial purposes provided the Web site and author are mentioned.

See Related Articles in MEDITATION AND THE POWERS OF THE MIND



Introduction

Throughout time, the power of prayer has been questioned by science. The analytical mind of the scientist calls for proof of the existence of a higher being. These scientists, both the faithful and nonbelievers alike, have produced studies into the affects of prayer on our physical as well as spiritual well being. Although most of us, who possess the belief that prayer can and does work, do not require physical, quantitative proof of the power of prayer, it is interesting to read the results of these studies.

Was a scientific study of prayer and its effect on heart patients done?

One of the most quoted scientific studies of prayer was done between August of 1982 and May of 1983. 393 patients in the San Francisco General Hospital’s Coronary Care Unit participated in a double blind study to assess the therapeutic effects of intercessory prayer. Patients were randomly selected by computer to either receive or not receive intercessory prayer. All participants in the study, including patients, doctors, and the conductor of the study himself remained blind throughout the study, To guard against biasing the study, the patients were not contacted again after it was decided which group would be prayed for, and which group would not.

It was assumed that although the patients in the control group would not be prayed for by the participants in the study, that others-family members, friends etc., would likely pray for the health of at least some of the members of the control group. There was no control over this factor. Meanwhile all of the members of the group that received prayer would be prayed for by not only those associated with the study, but by others as well.

The results of the study are not surprising to those of us who believe in the power of prayer. The patients who had received prayer as a part of the study were healthier than those who had not. The prayed for group had less need of having CPR (cardiopulmonary resuscitation) performed and less need for the use of mechanical ventilators. They had a diminished necessity for diuretics and antibiotics, less occurrences of pulmonary edema, and fewer deaths. Taking all factors into consideration, these results can only be attributed to the power of prayer.

Did prayer lower blood pressure?

The August 31, 1998 issue of Jet Magazine questioned whether prayer could lower blood pressure in high blood pressure sufferers, Again the obvious conclusion was reached. The magazine reported of a study conducted by Duke University Medical Center in Durham, NC. This study had over 4,000 participants over the age of 65. The study found that those who pray and attend religious services on a weekly basis, especially those between the ages of 65 and 74, had lower blood pressure than their counterparts who did not pray or attend religious services. They found that the more religious the person, particularly those who prayed or studied the Bible weekly, the lower the blood pressure. According to the study these people were forty percent less likely to have high diastolic pressure or diastolic hypertension than these were who did not attend religious services, pray, or study the Bible.

Dr. David B. Larson, president of the National Institute for Health Care Research in Rockville, MD, who co-authored the study, also says that prayer can lower high blood pressure. "The at-risk population of people with illnesses, such as the elderly seem to be helped if they have faith and religious commitment." Dr. Larson states: "Faith brings a calming state which helps decrease nervousness and anxiety with coping with day to day stress."

How does prayer effect people who lack health care?

In the Essence Magazine May 1997 issue, Allison Abner writes that African-Americans have historically turned to faith in times of illness and other crises. She cited Luisah Teish who states: "Because of limited access to quality health care and our distrust of the medical establishment we have occasionally relied on spiritual healing through such practices as prayer and the laying on of hands, Most of us, at some time have used prayer chanting or proverbs as ways to guide, direct, and heal ourselves." "Now," states Allison, "Our beliefs are being backed by medical research," Science is setting out to prove what most of the faithful already know--prayer does work.

Has a prayer study been done on the life of twins?

The December 1998 issue of Mc Call’s Magazine raised the question: How does prayer heal? The article notes a study done at the Virginia Commonwealth University Medical College of Virginia in Richmond, which studied 1,902 twins. They found that those who were committed to their spiritual lives tended to have less severe depression and a lower risk of addiction to cigarettes or alcohol. The healthful lifestyles of the spiritually rich and faithful clearly contribute to their well being, They tend not to smoke or drink or not do either excessively. Their marriages are more stable and their spiritual communities form a network that can catch and support people when they are ill.

What effect does prayer and religion have on life?

To delve into religious attitudes and their impact on health, Koenig and his co-researcher, Kenneth Paragament, Ph.D., a professor of psychology at Bowling Green State University in Ohio, studied 577 hospital patients age 55 and older. One 98-year-old woman with pneumonia and congestive heart failure looked upon her illness as God’s plan for her. She prayed often for the health and well being of her family and friends. These attitudes were associated with a serene response to stress and low levels of depression. All signs of well being that nurture joy in living might even extend one’s life.

While positive feelings toward a higher power seemed to foster well being, negative thoughts about a deity had the opposite effect. For example, a woman in her late 50’s with lung cancer left her church in her 20’s, became involved with drugs, and now feels her illness must be a sign of divine disapproval. She got poorer scores on tests that measured quality of life and psychological health than the 98-year-old woman.

What do atheists think about prayer?

Noted atheist Dan Barker, a spokesperson for the Freedom from Religion Foundation says the findings of the above research are no big surprise. Prayer and religious beliefs can have a placebo effect, just like a sugar pill. Barker, who was once a Christian Fundamentalist preacher before developing serious doubts about his religion, states that one of the strongest factors in recovery from an illness is a sense of connectedness with a community and people who care about you. Even if we mumble our prayers only when we are ill or if there is no God to hear them, the new research indicated that religious thoughts could help to heal.

Dr. Larry Dossey writes about the placebo effect mentioned earlier by Dan Barker and physicians who have looked at the tremendous amount of scientific studies on prayer. As Dr. Dossey states: "That is difficult to do considering that bacteria, fungi, and germinating seeds are not generally considered to be susceptible to suggestion."

Does prayer effect plant seeds?

In a study on germinating seeds done by Dr. Franklin Loehr, a Presbyterian minister and scientist, the objective was to see in a controlled experiment what effect prayer had over living and seemingly non-living matter. In one experiment they took three pans of various types of seeds. One was the control pan. One pan received positive prayer, and the other received negative prayer. Time after time, the results indicated that prayer helped speed germination and produced more vigorous plants. Prayers of negation actually halted germination in some plants and suppressed growth in others.

In another experiment two bottles of spring water were purchased. One container was used as a control, receiving no prayer; a group prayed for the second. The water was then used on pans of corn seeds layered in cotton, with one pan receiving the prayer water and the other receiving the control water. The pan receiving the prayer water sprouted a day earlier than seeds in the other pan. The prayer seeds had a higher germination and growth rate. The experiment was repeated with the same result each time.

What effect does prayer have on microorganisms?

Dr. Dossey, in his book, Be Careful What You Pray For, looks closely at experiments with microorganisms. He states, "Skeptics who do not believe in the effects of distant intentions say that any observed result must be due to the expectation of the subject- or the power of belief and thought." Dossey argues that if bacteria respond to outside intentions by growing more slowly when prayed over, than control groups not receiving prayer, then one cannot dismiss this result by attributing it to negative suggestion.

Bacteria presumably do not think positively or negatively. Another major advantage of microorganisms in studies of distant mental intentions has to do with the control group. If the effects of intercessory prayer, for example, are being assessed in a group of humans who have a particular illness, it is difficult to establish a pure control group that does not receive prayer. The reason is that sick human beings generally pray for themselves; or outsiders pray for them, thus contaminating the control group, which by definition should not receive the treatment being evaluated.

In studies involving microbes, this notorious "Problem of Extraneous Prayer" is totally overcome because one can be reasonably certain that the bacteria, fungi, or yeast in a control group will not pray for themselves. And that their fellow microbes will not pray for them.

If the study involved negative intentions instead of positives, the advantages remain the same. The thoughts of microorganisms do not influence its outcome.

Jean Barry, a physician-researcher in Bordeaux, France, chooses to work with a destructive fungus, Rhizoctonia Solani. He asked 10 people to try to inhibit its growth merely through their intentions at a distance of 1.5 meter.

The experiment involved control Petri dishes with fungi that were not influenced in addition to those that were. The laboratory conditions were carefully controlled regarding the genetic purity of the fungi and the composition of the culture medium, the relative humidity, and the conditions of temperature and lighting.

The control petri dishes and the influenced dishes were treated identically, except for the negative intentions directed toward the latter. A person who was blind to the details of the experiment handled various manipulations. The influences simply took their stations at the 1.5 meters and were free to act as they saw fit for their own concentration. For 15 minutes each subject was assigned five experimental and five control dishes. Of the ten subjects three to six subjects worked during a session, and there were nine sessions.

Measurement of the fungi colony on the Petri dish was obtained by outlining the boundary of the colony on a sheet of thin paper. Again, someone who did not know the aim of the experiment or the identity of the Petri dishes did this. The outlines were then cut out and weighed under condition of constant temperature and humidity. When the growth in 195 experimental dishes was compared to their corresponding controls, it was significantly retarded in 151 dishes. The possibility that these results could be explained by chance was less than one in a thousand.

Dr. Daniel I. Benor, who has evaluated all the known experiments in the field of distant healing in his landmark work healing research, calls this study "Highly significant."

Does physical distance effect prayer?

The researchers William H. Tedder and Melissa L. Monty from the University of Tennessee replicated the experiment. The goal of this study was to inhibit the growth of the fungus from the distance of one to fifteen miles. Two groups participated. Group one was made up of Tedder and six others who knew him and frequently interacted with him over a year and a half. Group 2 consisted of 8 volunteers who either did not know Tedder or did not interact with him frequently.

When the growth differential between the experimental and control dishes were compared, group one was highly successful. The likelihood of explaining their results by chance were less than 3 in 100,000. Group two was less successful. Their likelihood of a chance explanation was 6 in 100. Why was group one more successful? The researchers theorized that because of their established rapport with Tedder they might have had greater expectation and more motivation of a positive outcome than group two had.

In a post-experiment questionnaire, the group one subjects indeed responded more positively to questions about how they perceived their ability to inhibit the fungal cultures at a distance. Note: This is a clear example of faith in prayer verses doubt.

The fact that prayer is non local, that it functions at a distance, and that spatial separation does not diminish the affect means that it does not have to be intrusive. There is cross-cultural evidence that prayer does work. The factors that seem to affect the outcome of these studies are qualifies of consciousness, like caring, compassion, empathy, and love. When you take these qualities away the outcome of the study is changed. In, fact according to Dr. Dossey, if you flip these "empathetic, warm feelings" to the negative, frequently the subject is affected. In experiments a bacterium died and plants withered when subjected to the negative influence.

Conclusion

These studies have shown conclusive evidence of the power of prayer. Time after time the outcomes of these tests have shown the reality of the force of a higher being and our ability to communicate with Him.

We have also learned from viewing the results of these studies that the expectations we have while praying factor into the outcome of our prayers. Though the faithful will always believe that there need not be any physical evidence of the power and effects of prayer, science has come a long way toward showing just that-prayer is real, and it works.



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© Power Latent in Man 1999

Posts: 80 | From: Michigan | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
walkbyfaith
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The facts are on a King James Bible
Posts: 80 | From: Michigan | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
walkbyfaith
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First to your response intercessory prayer doesn't work I say your wrong as would God.
Secondly your scientific experiment was flawed. You can't tell God how to heal someone or the stipulations by which he has to work, neither can you test him. A true scientific experiment on prayer would chose people who are already praying for healing for groups of individuals and then chose other individual who are hospitalized that are not being prayed for with the same hospitalized conditions. It would have to be very thorough, because most people have someone praying for them.
I believe I have heard of a similar scientific experiment that showed prayer worked and i will find it and post it if I can find it.

As for God not needing to use us that is true in one aspect. He doesn't need us but he choses to use his children.
1 Timothy 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men.
Romans 8:27 Now he who searches the heart knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because he makes intercession for the saints according to the WILL OF GOD.
How many times does scripture say God's hears the prayers of his people , or his ears are open to our prayers.
1 John 5:14 and 15 Now this is the confidence we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of him.

this is the best on topic
James 5:14 and 15 Is anyone sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. The prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

Pretty specific, lets do that in a scientific experiment. Of course it isn't about one person being more important than another, it would be for the glory of God. If their not healed there could be many reasons. For one it could be the sickness or pain is a trial of their faith. It could be hindered by doubts, by unforgiveness within the person,or God knows what. For you to say it's blasphemy to pray for healing is to take the heart of intercessory compassion and ridicule it. I don't think you intended this, but it is what you wrote. It also takes away much of God's will for us in prayer.
Every form of the word prayer is intercession whether it is for yourself, a situation, or someone else. Pray is used 313 times in Bible, prayer 109 times, and prayed 65 times. So what you were saying isn't Biblical.

Why does God use us when he doesn't have too? We are part of his plan and he wants us involved. We are Ambassadors for Christ why wouldn't he? Also God would have us glorify him. Is it better to glorify yourself, or for others to glorify you? God knows what he is doing.

Posts: 80 | From: Michigan | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Port Moresby
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quote:
Originally posted by walkbyfaith:
I'd like to praise God for a girl named Kate from our town. She was hit by a car picking up a cell phone she had dropped. She was in a coma for a long time. The whole towns been praying for her, and she has woke up from her coma. She is doing well now still recuperating, but she doesn't have to be breathing out of a ventilator now. The whole town was wearing shirts that said pray for Kate it was neat seeing everyone join together for such a cause.

Although I can not express my happiness for Kate's good fortune, we should exercise caution before we lend credence to the efficacy of intercessory prayer.
My objections to it be can be categorized threefold:

1. It doesn't work.
And we know this to be true.
There are several meta-studies that confirm this.
The most well-known investigation into the efficacy of prayer comes from a study financed by The Templeton Foundation.
A 2006 "Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP)" led by Harvard professor Herbert Benson was by far the most comprehensive and rigorous investigation of third-party prayer to date.The STEP, commonly called the "Templeton Foundation prayer study or "Great Prayer Experiment", used 1,802 coronary artery bypass surgery patients at six hospitals. Using double-blind protocols, patients were randomized into three random groups, but without measuring individual prayer receptiveness. The experimental and control Groups 1 and 2 were informed they may or may not receive prayers, and only Group 1 received them. Group 3, which tested for possible psychosomatic effects, was informed they would receive prayers and subsequently did. Unlike some other studies, STEP attempted to standardize the prayer method. Only first names and last initial for patients were provided and no photographs were supplied. The congregations of three Christian churches who prayed for the patients "were allowed to pray in their own manner, but they were instructed to include the following phrase in their prayers: 'for a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications'. Some participants complained that this mechanical way they were told to pray as part of the experiment was unusual for them. Major complications and thirty-day mortality occurred in 52 percent of those who received prayer (Group 1), 51 percent of those who did not receive it (Group 2), and 59 percent of patients who knew they would receive prayers (Group 3). Some prayed-for patients fared worse than those who did not receive prayers.

2. There is something more than a little solipsistic and uncouth about people who say, for example, that God allowed them to walk away from a plane-crash while everyone else perished. It is like saying “ look how special I am !” and I, for one, find this to be an unchristian view.

3. Lastly, I find it rather blasphemous.
Surely, All-mighty God needs no primer from us to be informed that a coma victim, or anyone else, is in need of aide.

I hope this doesn't come across as too callous.
I am overjoyed about Kate's recovery, but this happens to be a theological discussion I feel most passionate about.

Port

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Reach out, pierce the thin veil of the sheltering sky

Posts: 18 | From: New Orleans | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
walkbyfaith
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I'd like to praise God for a girl named Kate from our town. She was hit by a car picking up a cell phone she had dropped. She was in a coma for a long time. The whole towns been praying for her, and she has woke up from her coma. She is doing well now still recuperating, but she doesn't have to be breathing out of a ventilator now. The whole town was wearing shirts that said pray for Kate it was neat seeing everyone join together for such a cause.
Posts: 80 | From: Michigan | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator


 
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