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Topic: Who Are The 144,000?
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Caretaker
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God bless you Dale. In the New Testament the Church is decidedly different than Israel/Jacob, and we are grafted onto the Israel of God, of which Israel/Jacob are broken off of.
God is not done with Israel/Jacob, and that is why there is a coming prophetic event called the Time of Jacob's Trouble, which is the Great Tribulation.
The Church is grafted onto the Israel of God, the covenant with Father Abraham:
Galations 6:
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Galations 3:
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Romans 11:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
It is not the Church which is the enemy of the Church, nor is it the Church in which blindness in part has happened, for the Church IS NOT Israel/Jacob, National Israel.
This replacement of Israel/Jacob by so many has led to confusion, the rejection of Nation Israel, and has done a disservice to God's Word.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Carol Swenson
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Hi Bloodbought,
Are you up for a few questions? I have three questions.
Revelation 20:4 (NASB)
4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
 1. The saints reign with Christ for a thousand years. There is no Millennial Kingdom in your scenario. So where do these saints reign from, and who do they reign over?
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Revelation 20:7-15 (NASB)
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
2. The Bible says the unbelieving dead are not resurrected until AFTER Satan is cast into the lake of fire permanently, so how could Satan deceive them into thinking they could capture the camp of the saints?
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Revelation 21:1-2 (NASB)
1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
3. The Bible says the New Heavens, New Earth, and New Jerusalem don't come until AFTER everything else is over. So how could Satan attack the New Jerusalem?
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Bloodbought
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Once Christ returns it is all over. All who are alive when Christ returns will either be saved or lost forever. Believers are caught up to be with the Lord and unbelievers are slain with the brightness of His coming.
There is no second chance for anyone, because there is nothing left only a scorched earth, which is a pit for Satan for 1000 years. During that time, he has no one to deceive; therefore he is bound from his activity. After the 1000 years the unbelieving dead are resurrected, allowing him to be active in his deception once again. He will deceive the unbelievers into thinking that they can capture the camp of the saints, the new Jerusalem, that have just come down from heaven, but when victory seems very possible, fire comes down and destroys them all.
Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Betty Louise
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I believe most of The book of Revelations is to Israel. I believe the 144 thousand are Jewish males who will accept Jesus after the rapture and will preach the Gospel during the tribulation.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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Bloodbought
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quote:
Covenant theology does not see a sharp distinction between Israel and the Church. Both entities are seen as one continuous people of God with one ultimate destiny. Is this your belief?
I believe that the entire book of revelation is to the church.
Some say that the church is not mentioned after Rev 3 and therefore the remainder of the book relates to the tribulation of Israel. But we find the church mentioned again in Rev 22:16, which is the last chapter in revelation.
Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Whatever the meaning of the language used, I think we should view the entire book as relating to the church. Revelation is taking the prophetic truth as seen in the OT and relating it to the NT church. The church was birthed by Israel and as we read through the book of Acts we see a transition from Judaism to Christianity and Jews and Greeks becoming believers. Matthew 1 to Acts 12 is Jewish and from Acts 13 on the gospel spreads out to the Gentiles.
Acts 13:52 And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost. Acts 14:1 And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed.
So it is not surprising that 144000 descendants from the 12 tribes of Israel are mentioned in Revelation. These were Christian believers who were sealed by the Holy Spirit and are later found standing with the Lamb on mount Sion. The general population of Israel rejected the Messiah and did not accept the gospel, but many of them will be grafted in and converted when the fullness of the Gentiles has come.
Once the last Jew is saved, Christ will return and reap the harvest and separate the wheat from the tares. Then the earth and its contents will be dissolved.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
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Carol Swenson
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Hi Kindgo
quote:
At the End of the Age the Lord will pour out His Spirit of Grace on the people of Israel like He has on the Church (Zechariah 12:10). As they realize that Jesus also died for their sins, they too will experience the immense benefits of His Grace. The blood guilt they've borne since the crucifixion (Matt. 27:25) will be finally pardoned (Joel 3:21) and they'll truly be one with the Lord.
Both Israel and the Church will have amazing, not-to-be-believed relationships with the Lord in the age to come. They will be of a different nature and in a different location, at least for the first 1000 years, but neither group will envy the other. The adulterous wife will be reconciled with her husband, her sins forgiven and forgotten, just like ours. The bride will be among those rejoicing, and they'll both be looking with heartfelt gratitude to Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). 07-24-10
Amen!!!
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Carol Swenson
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Hi Bloodbought,
That is a really interesting study of the names of the tribes in Revelation 7.
So, you believe that the 144,000 are not literal but symbolic of the whole?
quote:
I no longer view the 144,000 as an actual number of Jewish male virgin evangelists, but rather as a two-fold or three-fold way of signifying completion into the Israel of God once the fullness of the Gentiles has come in (cf Rom 11:23-27).
And you believe the church is a part of Israel, grafted in?
quote:
But what about us? What about Gentile Christians? Those of us that are Gentiles who now have a relationship with YHWH the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob have been adopted or “grafted in” to the household of God through Jesus Christ (cf. Ephesians 2; Read here to learn what Scripture really has to say about the nature of the Church). As believers in Yeshua ha’Maschiach we have become fellow citizens with the saints. We are members of the household of God and “are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus” (Eph 3:6). Since we have been incorporated into believing Israel we experience the blessings of the New Covenant today. “National Israel” will experience her blessings when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and she believes again and is grafted back in. Then all of Israel will be saved (Romans 11:25-26).
Covenant theology does not see a sharp distinction between Israel and the Church. Both entities are seen as one continuous people of God with one ultimate destiny. Is this your belief?
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Kindgo
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Member # 2
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Jack Kelly - Rapture Ready:
Israel is the bride of God and the Church is the bride of Christ.
In the Bible, God often describes our relationship with Him in terms of a marriage. He does this for our edification, to help us understand Him better.
For example, when Paul said he wanted to present us to the Lord as a pure virgin (2 Cor. 11:2), he meant that just as a virgin bride has never been defiled by any sexual relationships before being joined to her husband in marriage, he didn't want us to be defiled by any false doctrine or idolatry before being presented to the Lord at the rapture.
As for Israel, one of the most intimate portrayals of the way God felt toward His people can be found in Ezekiel 16.
The Bride Of God
'This is what the Sovereign LORD says to Jerusalem: Your ancestry and birth were in the land of the Canaanites; your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite. On the day you were born your cord was not cut, nor were you washed with water to make you clean, nor were you rubbed with salt or wrapped in cloths. No one looked on you with pity or had compassion enough to do any of these things for you. Rather, you were thrown out into the open field, for on the day you were born you were despised. ( Ezekiel 16:3-5)
When God called Abraham, He was creating the Israelites out of the idol worshiping Gentile world. Right from the beginning the world seemed to be at odds with them.
" 'Then I passed by and saw you kicking about in your blood, and as you lay there in your blood I said to you, "Live!" I made you grow like a plant of the field. You grew up and developed and became the most beautiful of jewels. Your breasts were formed and your hair grew, you who were naked and bare.
" 'Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you and covered your nakedness. I gave you my solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign LORD, and you became mine. (Ezekiel 16:6-8)
This is reminiscent of the night Ruth came to the threshing floor and asked Boaz to spread the corner of his garment over her (Ruth 3:9). It's a sign of promise and protection. You could say this was the point at which Israel became the bride of God.
" 'I bathed you with water and washed the blood from you and put ointments on you. I clothed you with an embroidered dress and put leather sandals on you. I dressed you in fine linen and covered you with costly garments. I adorned you with jewelry: I put bracelets on your arms and a necklace around your neck, and I put a ring on your nose, earrings on your ears and a beautiful crown on your head. So you were adorned with gold and silver; your clothes were of fine linen and costly fabric and embroidered cloth. Your food was fine flour, honey and olive oil. You became very beautiful and rose to be a queen. And your fame spread among the nations on account of your beauty, because the splendor I had given you made your beauty perfect, declares the Sovereign LORD. (Ezekiel 16:9-14)
God treated Israel like a king treats his queen, lavishing her with blessings the likes of which the world had never seen. But as the rest of the chapter shows, Israel became unfaithful and used these blessings to court the surrounding nations with their pagan gods, showering the gifts God had given her upon them to win their favor. Finally He had enough.
" 'You adulterous wife!” He shouted, “You prefer strangers to your own husband! Every prostitute receives a fee, but you give gifts to all your lovers, bribing them to come to you from everywhere for your illicit favors. So in your prostitution you are the opposite of others; no one runs after you for your favors. You are the very opposite, for you give payment and none is given to you.” (Ezekiel 16:32-34)
In His anger God gave Israel over to the nations to be stripped and cut to pieces, but promised that after they were done with her, “Then my wrath against you will subside and my jealous anger will turn away from you; I will be calm and no longer angry. Yet I will remember the covenant I made with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you. So I will establish my covenant with you, and you will know that I am the LORD.” (Ezekiel 16:42, 60, 62)
And so Israel went from being an innocent bride to becoming an adulterous wife. About 150 years before Ezekiel wrote this, the prophet Hosea had been raised up to act this story out in his own life, a live action parable of God's relationship with Israel. At God's direction he married a prostitute, and when she left him and returned to her former profession, Hosea provided her lovers with gifts. When she was no longer desirable and was sent to the slave auction, Hosea bought her back and took her home. It's the story of Israel's rebellion and redemption.
At the End of the Age, one like Hosea will purchase Israel out of slavery with His own blood, the price of redemption. (Hosea and Yeshua, the Lord's name in Hebrew, are both derived from yasha, which means to save.) And so, the adulterous wife will yet be reconciled to her husband, and he'll renew His vows with her. The Old Covenant will be replaced by the Everlasting Covenant (Jer. 31:31-32). Isaiah described it for us.
In that day the Branch of the LORD will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land will be the pride and glory of the survivors in Israel. Those who are left in Zion, who remain in Jerusalem, will be called holy, all who are recorded among the living in Jerusalem. The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire. Then the LORD will create over all of Mount Zion and over those who assemble there a cloud of smoke by day and a glow of flaming fire by night; over all the glory will be a canopy. It will be a shelter and shade from the heat of the day, and a refuge and hiding place from the storm and rain. (Isaiah 4:2-6)
The word for branch is tsemach, and refers to the Messiah, who made the reconciliation possible. With the curse gone the land will flourish like never before. After the end times judgments that follow the 2nd Coming, only believers will remain on Earth, and everyone left in Jerusalem will be holy. The pillar of cloud by day and fire by night remind us of when the Lord sheltered the Israelites in the wilderness (Exodus 13:21). The Hebrew word for the canopy is chuppah, the wedding canopy, and the one for shelter is sukkah, the booth each Israelite builds on the feast of Tabernacles to commemorate the time the Lord spent with them in the wilderness. The entire creation will rejoice at this long overdue reconciliation.
The desert and the parched land will be glad; the wilderness will rejoice and blossom. Like the crocus, it will burst into bloom; it will rejoice greatly and shout for joy. (Isaiah 35:1-2) You will go out in joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.(Isaiah 55:12)
The Bride Of Christ
During the time of Israel's rebellion, the Lord turned to the Gentiles once again to take a people from among them for Himself (Acts 15:13) called the Church. He loves the Church and gave Himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word to present her to Himself as a radiant church without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. (Ephes. 5:25-28)
Right from the beginning the Lord determined to do everything necessary so that the Church's exalted position could never be lost. Before the Church was ever born, the Lord compiled a list of every one of our sins and carried it to the cross with Him where He forgave all of them in advance (Colossians 2:13-14). This allowed Him to always look upon us as if we've never sinned at all (2 Cor. 5:17), as if we're just as righteous as He is (2 Cor. 5:21) having been made perfect forever by His once-for-all-time sacrifice (Hebrews 10:12-14). God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even while we were still dead in our transgressions and has already seated us with Christ in the heavenly realms (Ephes. 2:4-6).
Having prepared the way, the Lord went to His Father's house to make a home for us, promising to return and take us there to be where He is (John14:2-3). On a day no one could have predicted in advance He'll meet us in the clouds and in a flash we'll be gone, our old sin infested bodies replaced with new immortal ones, specially designed for eternal life with Him. The place He's preparing for us will be enormous and made entirely of gold and precious gems, its radiance such that it will light the world (Rev. 21:24). The Kings of the Earth will bring their splendor into it and we will take our place in the Royal household of God, the place He's seen us in since before the foundations of Earth were laid.
What's It All About?
Of course all this marriage terminology is metaphorical. God doesn't marry humans in the sense that we think of marriage. And how could God marry Israel and Jesus marry the Church when God and Jesus are one and the same? Jesus is what God looks like when he wants to take on a physical appearance. (Hebrews 1:3)
I believe the sense in which we'll be married comes from the closeness we'll feel, the intimacy that can only by achieved through a long term committed relationship. It's really how two become one. Our hearts are knit together. In our present fallen state this is difficult to achieve even in marriage. Untold numbers of husbands and wives can speak of the loneliness they feel because instead of growing closer they've drifted apart.
New believers often experience a closeness with the Lord they've never felt with another human, and those who no longer conform to the pattern of this world but allow themselves to be transformed by the renewing of their minds (Romans 12:2) can retain much of that closeness. Yet even then we come to understand how our sin nature prevents us from becoming as close to the Lord as we'd like to be.
We can only imagine how it will feel when that barrier to intimacy is finally removed. During the entire beating and crucifixion ordeal the only suffering that was too great for the Lord to bear in silence was when He took our sins upon Himself and the Father had to turn away, unable to look upon Him (Habakkuk 1:13). We've never had His kind of intimacy with the Father, but He had never been deprived of it and when He was it caused Him more pain than anything else they (we) did to Him. Paul said when the barrier comes down we'll know as we're known (1 Cor. 13:12), and John promised that when the Lord appears we'll be like Him because we'll see Him as He is (1 John 3:2). We'll finally have the kind of intimacy with Him we've always craved.
The comparison of the adulterous wife to the virgin bride is meant to symbolize the difference between Law and Grace. The former shows what we can make of our selves, an adulterous wife, and the latter shows what God can make of us, a virgin bride. Speaking of this in Ephesians 5:32 Paul said it's a profound mystery, and believe me that was not an understatement.
The truth is that the Church has been no better behaved than Israel. Before the first Century had ended the Lord was complaining of neglect.
“Yet I hold this against you, you have forsaken your first love. Remember the height from which you have fallen. Repent and do the things you did at first.” (Rev. 2:4-5)
And from the 4th Century until the 16th the Church was worse than dead, it was a force for evil in the world. There have been several major revivals since then, yet only a small percentage of born again believers holds to a Biblical world view today. Even so, because of God's grace, Jesus continues to see us as His radiant bride, holy and blameless.
At the End of the Age the Lord will pour out His Spirit of Grace on the people of Israel like He has on the Church (Zechariah 12:10). As they realize that Jesus also died for their sins, they too will experience the immense benefits of His Grace. The blood guilt they've borne since the crucifixion (Matt. 27:25) will be finally pardoned (Joel 3:21) and they'll truly be one with the Lord.
Both Israel and the Church will have amazing, not-to-be-believed relationships with the Lord in the age to come. They will be of a different nature and in a different location, at least for the first 1000 years, but neither group will envy the other. The adulterous wife will be reconciled with her husband, her sins forgiven and forgotten, just like ours. The bride will be among those rejoicing, and they'll both be looking with heartfelt gratitude to Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). 07-24-10
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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Bloodbought
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Many of us have been taught that the 144,000 of Revelation 7 were literally all Jewish virgin men — and exactly 12,000 each from the 12 tribes of Israel — that would “go through the tribulation” in an effort to evangelize an untold number of lost souls to the saving knowledge of Christ after a pre-trib rapture of Christians, and that they would do all of this without the guidance, giftings, empowerment and conviction power of the Holy Spirit (cf John 15:26; 16:8-11). That was pretty much the story I had been given growing up, sometimes with slight variations of the narrative depending on who was teaching or preaching at the time. But have you ever wondered how on earth they could find salvation if they were not saved at the time of a “pre-trib rapture” to be whisked away when, according to many of these same teachers, the Holy Spirit — the One who convicts the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment (John 16:8-11) — would also be removed from the earth along with all Christians? Well, hold your breath brothers and sisters because some of you may be surprised to hear this — it’s wrong. Oh, it’s all in the text, but many of us haven’t read what’s all in the text.
Allow me to explain.
I no longer view the 144,000 as an actual number of Jewish male virgin evangelists, but rather as a two-fold or three-fold way of signifying completion into the Israel of God once the fullness of the Gentiles has come in (cf Rom 11:23-27). To help explain my position in this respect, we first need to pay particularly close attention to the sequence of the twelve tribes in Revelation 7. This is the only place in the Bible that the list appears in this order. To understand why they are in this order and what the significance of this list entails, we also need to understand that the Hebrews often named their newborn child a word that had a phrase/meaning to the name given. For example, when Leah gave birth to Judah she said “I will praise the Lord.” When Reuben was born she said “He has looked upon my affliction”. Normally the first born is listed first, but in the list of Revelation 7 Judah is listed first, not Reuben. Dan and Ephraim are completely left out, likely because of disbelief and idolatry (cf. Deut 29:18-21; Hosea 5:9,11) so it’s a very interesting sequence that John, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, puts together for us. Here is the list and order they appear in Revelation –> 1. Judah, 2. Reuben, 3. Gad 4. Asher, 5. Nepthalim, 6. Manasses, 7. Simeon, 8. Levi, 9. Issachar, 10. Zebulon, 11. Joseph, and 12. Benjamin.
When we take the tribes as listed in the Revelation of Jesus Christ, and then take the time to discover the meaning of and/or why those names were given, we get something very interesting after constructing it in the listed order. Here are all the verses with the names (KJV/NASB):
Judah – Gen 29:35 And she conceived again, and bare a son: and she said, NOW WILL I PRAISE THE LORD, therefore she called his name Judah; and left bearing.
Reuben – Gen 29:32 And Leah conceived, and bare a son, and she called his name Reuben: for she said Surely THE LORD HATH LOOKED UPON MY AFFLICTION; now therefore my husband will love me.
Gad – Gen 30:11 Then Leah said, “HOW FORTUNATE!” So she named him Gad.
Asher – Gen 30:13 And Leah said, HAPPY AM I for the daughters will call me blessed: and she called his name Asher.
Nepthalim – Gen 30:8 And Rachel said, WITH GREAT WRESTLINGS HAVE I WRESTLED with my sister, and I have prevailed and she called his name Naphtali.
Manasses – Gen 41:51 Joseph called the name of the firstborn Manasseh: “FOR GOD HATH MADE ME FORGET ALL MY TOIL and all my father’s house.”
Simeon – Gen 29:33 And she conceived again, and bare a son; and said, BECAUSE THE LORD HATH HEARD THAT I WAS HATED, HE HATH THEREFORE GIVEN ME THIS SON also: and she called his name Simeon
Levi – Gen 29:34 “And she conceived again, and bare a son; and said, NOW THIS TIME WILL MY HUSBAND BE JOINED UNTO ME, because I have born him three sons: therefore was his name called Levi.
Issachar – Gen 30:18 Then Leah said, “GOD HAS GIVEN ME MY WAGES because I gave my maid to my husband.” So she named him Issachar.
Zebulon – Gen 30:20 Then Leah said, “GOD HAS ENDOWED ME WITH A GOOD GIFT; NOW MY HUSBAND WILL DWELL WITH ME, because I have borne him six sons.” So she named him Zebulun.
Joseph – Gen 30:24 And she called his name Joseph; and said, THE LORD SHALL ADD TO ME another son.
Benjamin – Gen 35:17-18 And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; THOU SHALT HAVE THIS SON also. And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.
Now, when we take them all and put them in the order that the tribes appear, we get the following:
“Now will I praise the LORD, Surely the LORD hath looked upon my affliction, How fortunate!, Happy am I, With great wrestlings have I wrestled and I have prevailed, For God hath made me forget all my toil, Because the LORD hath heard that I was hated he hath therefore given me this son, Now this time will my husband be joined unto me, God has given me my wages, God has endowed me with a good gift; my husband will dwell with me, The LORD shall add to me, thou shalt have this son.”
The name Benjamin literally means “Son of My right hand” so another reading of the last portion could be “The LORD shall add to me the Son of [His] right hand.”
Let this sink in for a moment. The way that the 12 tribes are listed in Revelation 7 describes the Bride of Christ and the complete story of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ marrying His bride after delivering her from her affliction. This is fulfillment of the prophecy regarding Israel in Hosea 2:
Hosea 2:14,16,19, “Therefore I am now going to allure her (Israel) … ‘In that day,’ declares the Lord, ‘you will call me ‘my husband‘; you will no longer call me ‘my master… [and] I will betroth you to me forever.’“
Not only is this evident of the Divine inspiration of the Scriptures, it also points us to the understanding that believing Israel is the Bride of Christ. It always has been, and what we see above is incontrovertible proof in my opinion. Does Scripture confirm this elsewhere? Yes.
Revelation 21:9-12, “And there came unto me one of the seven angels … saying, come hither, and I will shew thee the bride, THE LAMB’S WIFE. And he … shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem … which had a wall great and high, and twelve gates… and names written thereon which are the NAMES OF THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL.”
But what about us? What about Gentile Christians? Those of us that are Gentiles who now have a relationship with YHWH the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob have been adopted or “grafted in” to the household of God through Jesus Christ (cf. Ephesians 2; Read here to learn what Scripture really has to say about the nature of the Church). As believers in Yeshua ha’Maschiach we have become fellow citizens with the saints. We are members of the household of God and “are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus” (Eph 3:6). Since we have been incorporated into believing Israel we experience the blessings of the New Covenant today. “National Israel” will experience her blessings when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and she believes again and is grafted back in. Then all of Israel will be saved (Romans 11:25-26).
It is therefore no surprise that after John describes the 144,000 that he then sees a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues standing before the throne and before the Lamb. We will come out of the Great Tribulation that will be invited to this wedding (Matthew 22:9-10). Revelation 19:9, “Then the angel said to me, ‘Write: ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!’’ And he added, ‘These are the true words of God.’” Indeed, and as the prophecy in Hosea concludes, “… Then I will say to those who were not My people, ‘You are My people!’ And they shall say, ‘You are my God!’” (Hosea 2:23b). Whether this is intended for restored national Israel who now believes, or to Gentiles that are grafted in, we’ll have to wait and see. It may even allude to both.
http://midnightwatcher.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/the-144000-and-the-great-multitude-its-not-what-you-may-think/
Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Carol Swenson
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The book of Revelation has always presented the interpreter with challenges. The book is steeped in vivid imagery and symbolism which people have interpreted differently depending on their preconceptions of the book as a whole. There are four main interpretive approaches to the book of Revelation: 1) preterist (which sees all or most of the events in Revelation as having already occurred by the end of the 1st century); 2) historicist (which sees Revelation as a survey of church history from apostolic times to the present); 3) idealist (which sees Revelation as a depiction of the struggle between good and evil); 4) futurist (which sees Revelation as prophecy of events to come). Of the four, only the futurist approach interprets Revelation in the same grammatical-historical method as the rest of Scripture. It is also a better fit with Revelation’s own claim to be prophecy (Revelation 1:3; 22:7, 10, 18, 19).
So the answer to the question “who are the 144,000?” will depend on which interpretive approach you take to the book of Revelation. With the exception of the futurist approach, all of the other approaches interpret the 144,000 symbolically, as representative of the church and the number 144,000 being symbolic of the totality—i.e., the complete number—of the church. Yet when taken at face value: “Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel” (Revelation 7:4), nothing in the passage leads to interpreting the 144,000 as anything but a literal number of Jews—12,000 taken from every tribe of the “sons of Israel.” The New Testament offers no clear cut text replacing Israel with the church.
These Jews are “sealed,” which means they have the special protection of God from all of the divine judgments and from the Antichrist to perform their mission during the tribulation period (see Revelation 6:17, in which people will wonder who can stand from the wrath to come). The tribulation period is a future seven-year period of time in which God will enact divine judgment against those who reject Him and will complete His plan of salvation for the nation of Israel. All of this is according to God’s revelation to the prophet Daniel (Daniel 9:24-27). The 144,000 Jews are a sort of “first fruits” (Revelation 14:4) of a redeemed Israel which has been previously prophesied (Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:25-27), and their mission is to evangelize the post-rapture world and proclaim the gospel during the tribulation period. As a result of their ministry, millions—“a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language” (Revelation 7:9)—will come to faith in Christ.
http://www.gotquestions.org/144000.html
I read several articles on this subject. It's surprising how many different beliefs are out there just on this topic alone. The JWs have really strange beliefs about the 144,000.
One article I read stated that the 144,000 are at work today and will continue into the first half of the Tribulation. It also stated the importance of evangelizing Israel now.
There was another article that I wanted to share here, but their copyright policy doesn't allow it. The author asked a Messianic Jew, that he is friends with, for his opinion about the 144,000. The friend answered that of course the 144,000 are Jews. That's why God gave them the kind of personality they have. He said Jews are very pushy, and they will save more people during the Tribulation than all the rest of us have in the last 2000 years!!!
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Wiersbe writes:
While we are not told explicitly in Scripture that the 144,000 Jews are God's special witnesses, and that the Gentile host is saved through their ministry, this appears to be a logical deduction; otherwise, why are they associated in this chapter? The parallel with Matthew 24:14 also indicates that the 144,000 will witness for the Lord during the Tribulation.
The sealed Jews (vv. 1-8). Angels are associated with the forces of nature: the wind (Rev. 7:1), fire (Rev. 14:18), and water (Rev. 16:5). Stopping the winds implies a "lull before the storm." God controls all of nature. During the day of His wrath, He will use the forces of nature to judge mankind. The phrase "four corners of the earth" is no more "unscientific" here than it is in Isaiah 11:12 or the daily newspaper.
In Scripture, a seal indicates ownership and protection. Today, God's people are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13-14). This is God's guarantee that we are saved and safe, and that He will one day take us to heaven. The 144,000 Jews will receive the Father's name as their seal (Rev. 14:1), in contrast to the "mark of the beast" that Antichrist will give those who follow him (Rev. 13:17; 14:11; 16:2; 19:20).
This seal will protect these chosen Jews from the judgments that will "hurt the earth and the sea" (Rev. 7:2), and occur when the first four angels blow their trumpets (Rev. 8). The judgments are intensified when the horrible locusts are released from the pit (Rev. 9:1-4). Protected from these awesome judgments, the 144,000 will be able to do their work and glorify the Lord.
In every age, God has had His faithful remnant. Elijah thought he was alone, but God had 7,000 who were yet faithful to Him (1 Kings 19:18). The sealing described in Revelation 7 certainly has its background in Ezekiel 9:1-7, where the faithful were sealed before God's judgment fell. So, while these 144,000 Jews are an elect people in the last days with a special task from God, they also symbolize God's faithful elect in every age of history.
The number 144,000 is significant because it signifies perfection and completeness (144= 12 x 12). Some see here the completeness of all God's people: the twelve tribes of Israel (Old Testament saints) and the twelve Apostles (New Testament saints). This may be a good application of this passage, but it is not the basic interpretation; for we are told that these 144,000 are all Jews, and even their tribes are named.
A man once told me he was one of the 144,000; so I asked him, "To which tribe do you belong, and can you prove it?" Of course, he could not prove it, no more than any Jew today can prove the tribe from which he or she descended. The genealogical records have all been destroyed. Even the fact that ten of the tribes were taken by the Assyrians and "lost" is no problem to God. He knows His people and their whereabouts (see Matt. 19:28; Acts 26:7; James 1:1).
This is not to say that our literal interpretation of this passage is not without problems. Why is Levi included when it had no inheritance with the other tribes? (Num. 18:20-24; Josh. 13:14) Why is Joseph named but not his son Ephraim, who is usually connected with his brother Manasseh? Finally, why is the tribe of Dan omitted here and yet included in Ezekiel's list for the apportionment of the land? (Ezek. 48:1) Many suggestions have been made, but we do not know the answers. Even if we interpreted this passage in a spiritual sense (i.e., Israel is the church), we would be no more certain. We must permit God to know "the secret things," and not allow our ignorance of them to hinder us from obeying what we do know (Deut. 29:29).
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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